Symonds expected Mercedes’ rivals would catch them more quickly

15 comments on “Symonds expected Mercedes’ rivals would catch them more quickly”

1. 

   Phylyp (@phylyp)
   20th January 2020, 2:48

   Excellent caption, Derek!
   1. 

      Derek Edwards
      20th January 2020, 9:36

      Thank you.
2. 

   Chaitanya
   20th January 2020, 3:59

   RBR seems to be limited by their PU and Ferrari are their usual incompetance. Methodical approach of Mercs has ensured the dominance in F1 for last 6 years and it would be interesting how 2021 rule change shakes up the grid.
3. 

   schooner (@schooner)
   20th January 2020, 3:59

   Leclerc – sign 3 year contract with Ferrari – ✔
   go shopping for a yacht! – ✔
4. 

   Jon Bee
   20th January 2020, 7:04

   Teams have better IP security than they did back when Pat Symonds was chief engineer at Renault. Also, Mercedes appears to be a settled, happy team and few of their technical staff are moving to either of other European teams, both of which suffer from constant internal strife.

   If Jamie Chadwick wants to race in F1, she needs to move away from Williams, who’d be more than happy to give her a seat, but she’d have find £15m. Until then, she’ll continue as the Williams’ poster girl, window dressing for a product that doesn’t exist.
5. 

   Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
   20th January 2020, 8:05

   Great caption.
   1. 

      Derek Edwards
      20th January 2020, 9:36

      Thanks!
6. 

   DB-C90 (@dbradock)
   20th January 2020, 10:05

   Don’t know why it surprised Pat.

   Renault basically did nothing in 2015 and just got further behind and it takes a long time to engineer something as good as the Mercedes PU.

   Ferrari pretty much caught up in the PU stakes in 2015 but haven’t had the chassis/teamwork – again something that takes a long time to fix.

   Hats off to Mercedes – they developed a monster PU that had power and reliability which gave them a huge head start but also managed to develop brilliant Chassis every year as well. No surprise then that it’s taken this long for other teams to even get close given that the arguably best chassis designer was hampered by a crap PU and the only other team is ……… well Ferrari (need I say more).
   1. 

      Robbie (@robbie)
      20th January 2020, 18:34

      @dbradock I too don’t know why Symonds is surprised, but I am surprised he and you have made no mention of the token system that was also introduced. While it was meant to limit out of control spending on R&D on the hybrid pu(s), what it also did was help lock in Mercedes’ advantage. I seem to recall many many poster on here at the time decrying the locked in advantage Mercedes had been given. Sure, their fans argued, but they just happened to nail their package, fair and square, in an equal setting to the other pu makers at the time. True. But the others were also limited to the rate at which they could catch up. Also I sure think it is debatable for you to claim Ferrari had caught up to Mercedes pu-wise one year later, in 2015.

      As we know, in 2014 and onward it became not about marrying a great pu to a great chassis as it had been for decades before the hybrid era. In the hybrid era, it is the marriage that has never been more crucial, so in that sense Ferrari nor any team has come close to Mercedes. To say Ferrari had the better pu last year is folly, as that doesn’t matter if the car simply isn’t faster other than on some straights, for if the overall drivability isn’t there, the ability to treat the tires properly etc, some of the blame goes to the pu and it’s marriage to the chassis, as braking is highly affected by the pu too. Perhaps Ferrari came close in 2018, but then unreliability bit them, just as it had in 2017, not just SV’s or the teams’ errors. Last year they seemed to come out swinging in the pre-season only to then falter big time and basically hand the WDC to LH within the first third of the season.

      Anyway this just to say that taking the overall package into consideration, the pu and how it makes the chassis work, which is what really changed F1 starting in 2014, Mercedes has obviously had the upper hand for the entire hybrid era. It was a couple of years ago now that Zak Brown stated that the only team that would win the Championships ahead of the 2021 reg changes would be Mercedes. I think that is not just because they made the best pu right off the bat, but also that that translated to them having the jump on the best working chassis and the R&D on that, as they so go hand in hand.
      1. 

         MEGATRON M12 (@megatron)
         20th January 2020, 23:34

         @robbie
         You are mistaken, the token system held Merc back more than anyone. The token system stopped the PU manufacturers from making many small improvements, and forced them to make large improvements, which is what Ferrari, Renault and Honda needed to make. None of the manufacturers used all of their tokens, showing that it didn’t really hold anyone back to begin with(look how many times Honda changed their concept) especially since they were all allowed UNLIMITED RELIABILITY changes.

         The tokens held nobody back, nor did it lock in any advantage, what really held them back was Ferrari, Renault’s and Honda’s INCOMPETENCE, and also the ever increasing reliability requirements, especially when it went down to 3 PUs(2 mguks) per season.

         Most of the rest of your post is also nonsense. Williams have supposedly had the best PU the last 2 seasons and it has done nothing for them. Aero and tires still rule F1, probably always will.
         1. 

            Robbie (@robbie)
            21st January 2020, 1:28

            @megatron Nope you’ve got it wrong. A quick google of F1 tokens will immediately reveal to you articles that show that I have it right.

            And your comment about Williams (not a highly resourced team I’m sure you’ll admit) with a Mercedes Pu exactly proves my point…it is about the marriage between Pu and chassis, and that is typically best done as a factory team. Being a customer, and a much lesser funded one at that, does not cut it these days.

            Otherwise, aero won’t be ruling for more than a season at this point, and then ground effects will take over with wing aero taking a back seat. The tires? For sure they’re always crucial and hopefully they won’t be the limiting joke that they are now, come 2021.
         2. 

            hobo (@hobo)
            21st January 2020, 15:51

            @megatron – You’re way off on this one. The tokens held back development of anyone trying to catch Merc, this is not in dispute by anyone except maybe you.

            Ferrari had not closed the engine gap to Mercedes in 2015. If they had, why would they have been fighting (alongside Renault and against Mercedes) to remove the restrictions? If it was only hurting Mercedes, why would the other two manufacturers want to help them? (Not counting Honda here because they had a grace period.)

            This is more anecdotal in my opinion of watching F1—new eras of engine regs tend to create an engine- or power-formula for a few years. Whoever got the engines right will often lead. As time passes with stable regs, as engines converge, then other areas become the difference-maker (e.g. aero). That is exactly what we have seen. RBR are known for having slick aero and they were nowhere in 2014, 15, 16. They and Ferrari have made ground in the past three years, as their engines get better and the differences in aero start to matter more.

            And the smaller teams prove that out. Four of the top six teams in 2014 and 2015 were Merc-engined teams. And when Mclaren switched in 2015, they dropped. When Lotus moved to Merc in 2015 they moved to the top six. These smaller Merc customer teams stayed in the top 5 through 2016 and 17 as well. 2018 and 19 have seen more engine parity across teams. 2015? No.
            1. 

               MEGATRON M12 (@megatron)
               21st January 2020, 16:12

               @hobo, the article as well as your assertion are nonsense, in reality the token system held back Mercedes more than anyone. The way the tokens were set up meant that using them for small gains were was wasteful, and those were the gains that Merc were finding, since they were way up on power. When Ferrari totally redesigned their PU for 2015 they had plenty of scope to do so even with the token system in place.

               Fans and so called pundits are biased and do not look at the reality on the ground. No manufacturer fully used their tokens, if they were so limited, why didn’t they do so? The tokens did not hold them back and was not a good deterrent from spending, which is why it was abandoned and replaced by the ever increasing and accelerated reliability restrictions which definitely held back Renault and Honda.
            2. 

               Robbie (@robbie)
               21st January 2020, 17:53

               @megatron You can keep repeating it but it doesn’t make it so. Let’s see, who is likely right? Countless authors of F1 print and web media engrained in F1, or an armchair enthusiast who can be observed throughout his posts spewing rhetoric at will?
7. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   20th January 2020, 10:26

   I wonder if those are actual-glasses or merely ‘non-prescription’ ones used for commercial/promotional purposes.

Comments are closed.