Will Hamilton’s petition beat Alonso’s?

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The Lewis Hamilton penalty petition is gaining more signatures every second

Over 26,000 people have now signed a petition decrying the FIA’s penalty against Lewis Hamilton in the Belgian Grand Prix.

When I began writing this post there were just over 25,900 signatures on it. Now there are 26,202. It’s easy to by cynical about how effective online petitions are, but you have to be impressed by how quickly this one is growing.

But it has a long way to go to beat the 133,348 signatures a petition about Fernando Alonso received last year.

That petition was against McLaren’s alleged efforts to prevent Alonso from winning last year’s world championship.

I’ve signed the Hamilton petition because I agree the FIA’s decision is just plain wrong. If you want to sign as well you can find it here Belgian Grand Prix – Lewis Hamilton was unfairly stripped of his win petition

The comments below have been split across multiple pages. If you are having trouble viewing all the comments click here to see them all.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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93 comments on “Will Hamilton’s petition beat Alonso’s?”

  1. I’ve signed it and i am proud to have signed it and i thank everyone else for their support in signing it.

  2. William Wilgus
    9th September 2008, 21:15

    The following is meant to inject a little levity; I hope everyone takes it in that sense:

    Where can I sign a petition demanding that the penalty stand?

  3. Yeah, I’d like to sign a petition like that as well.

  4. Try Ferrari.com

  5. Agreed – I too would vote for seeing the penalty stand, as a very proper application of the rules.

  6. I’m for the penalty

    only have one type of vote is silly, very pratchett style, very FIA (haha)

    even Max Mosley believes in ONE MAN, ONE VOTE.

    although he is that one man, and he’s got that one vote.

  7. I agree the FIA’s decission is wrong. I still think both drivers were just racing, and they were racing on a WET track with DRYS.

    I don’t think Lewis cut the chicane with the intention of taking and advantage, and, after watching the video of the onboard camera, I think Lewis didn’t allow Kimi recovered the position. Anyhow, I think the stewards took the wrong decission.

    That said, I don’t see the need to sign the petition, because I think this petition is something related to Lewis Hamilton supporters, from the moment I never saw that kind of initiatives going on when FIA took wrong decissions whoever the driver was. And, unfortunatelly, we have seen loads of them.

    I would like to see a proposal asking the FIA to change the rules avoiding the widely open interpretation each Team, driver, steward, fan… can make when something like this happens.

    That one I would sign it for sure!

  8. @ William & Jack –
    Go create your own –
    I have a strong feeling though, that such petitions will end up where any other reasoned arguments, submitted to the FIA find themselves – in the Recycle Bin.

  9. Both petitions seem about as pointless as each other if you ask me (not that you did). I’ve got no interest in this, it achieves nothing. He’ll more than likely get his win back, as I’ve said all along, and then the carping can stop (for a bit, please?).

  10. Ceedas, what sort of point to you feel in these petitions?

    erroneous comment, but still, I hope I helped.
    I agree with your point though, even though no one asked me either.

  11. I will never put shell in my car , I will never buy an accer or amd computer , I will never travel with etihad , I will never buy a Ferrari or Fiat , I will never drink Martini . STOP THE CONSPIRACY -SIGN!!!
    this is the only thing we can do to bring fairness into Formula 1

    eddie irvine

  12. I have signed this petition not because I am a Lewis Hamilton supporter but because like the vast majority of people including Jackie Stewart, Niki Lauda, Ralf Schumacher & Cesare Fiorio I think the decision was utterly ridiculous. Cesare Fiorio who used to run Ferrari said on live TV in Italy that not only did he disagree with the penalty but he was incensed by it. That tels anyone everything they need to know.

    Had there been a petition about many other dodgy FIA decisions I would have signed them.

  13. @ eddie,

    are you still bitter about not being allowed to win the WDC in a ferrari before schumi did?

  14. Williams & Jack – You can set petitions up for free on these sites you know…get a contest going!

  15. I’d like a petition contest, but if I lose I’m appealing.

  16. This is totally ridiculous how can you strip Lewis from his win why not a grid penalty the next race like what happened after Canadian GP, why didn’t they give the victory to Heidfeld what did Massa have to do with it?! I’ve realized formula1 is all for Ferrari and this sport will lose their fans….25seconds for avoiding a hit?!!!! Hamilton had no room and he still gave back the position to Kimi this sport is BIASED!!!!

  17. If there was a sand pit he’d have been stuck…penalty is fair.

  18. Jack @3

    there’s no point in making a petition for the penalty to stand. Right now the ones who think like you and me are winning 6 thousand millions minus 26202 to 26202 :)

  19. Most of the 6 billion probably don’t even know this debate his happening, aa…

  20. I was looking at a random few comments on the petition and there was an occasional…well, OK, only 2 that I came across, that signed the petition only to comment that the decision be upheld. There’s always someone there to ruin it.

    I’ve only ever signed an online petition once, and I know I’ll never ever sign another one again – because I just don’t think it’s effective. I don’t see why, if fans are so passionate about something, they just don’t march to the FIA HQ and protest – online petitions almost say nothing, it’s easy to tick(click) sign(type) your name and a quick comment – you can argue its needed in today’s fast society, but I think it makes people lazy and for people who don’t necessarily know what they’re fighting for sign a petition anyway.

    OK, so marching to the FIA HQ would be somewhat inconvenient for the mass majority. But I think for the controversy this has caused, causing headlines such as “The day F1 died” and such like, a physical voice would be far more effective than an online petition.

    Considering alot of the rubbish and idiotic suggestions people put up for online petitions, including those for No. 10, it ruins almost any credibility for the those that need looked at.

    Yes, I am an online petition cynic.

  21. He cut the chicane, deserves the penalty, full stop. I don’t see why lewis thinks he’s allowed to get away with cutting corners, the fact that his team were on the radio to charlie straight away proves they didn’t believe that lewis’ behaviour was kosher. Whether you think kimi shutting the door was fair or not is irrelevant, he’s perfectly entitled to do so. Massa summed it up in a nutshell, he was too optimistic. As soon as the incident happened I felt something was not right on lewis’ part. To be honest, I eould rather sign a petition for the penalty to stand. And it wasn’t just racing, you don’t cut the track when you race.

  22. #5181

    FIA would be ill advised to ignore us, but then look who guides that fine and august organisation. No hope then.

    Just want a real and uneffected race in Monza please. Don’t care who wins, as long as it’s honest please!!!

  23. Ferrari.com for a petition to allow Lewis’ penalty to stand? Try FIA.com :-)

  24. Millions of people watched the Belgian Grand Prix, and yet only 29000 of them so far have the felt strongly enough about the penalty to sign the petition. The FIA would look very weak if they gave in to such a minority.

    I think it would have been better to have had a Poll from on whether you agree or disagree with the penalty. This way you would get a clearer picture of what F1 fans as a whole think about the penalty.

  25. “He cut the chicane, deserves the penalty, full stop. I don’t see why lewis thinks he’s allowed to get away with cutting corners, the fact that his team were on the radio to charlie straight away proves they didn’t believe that lewis’ behaviour was kosher.”

    The answer is simple: precedent. Until Spa, it was considered allowable to cut a chicane in case of either loss of control or to avoid a crash, so long as you gave back the place you’d gained/kept from going off circuit. (The rules in question are for going off the track. That is the entire rule, nothing about sporting advantages, nothing about cutting corners. Unsurprisingly, most instances of going off track aren’t penalised)

    Often (usually?), the stewards will say to give back the place if the driver hasn’t already (as in the oft mentioned Alonso/Klien incident in the 2005 japanese GP) and apply no further penalty.

    McLaren asked if Race Control were happy with the repass, they said yes – twice, before slapping 25 seconds on on the end, long after McLaren could do anything about it. A bit like if the referee decided to disallow a goal after a game of football ended having preciously said it was ok (and the rest of the game having been played on that basis)

  26. I disagree with the penalty, it should have been harsher. He deserved a DSQ plus a 10 place grid penalty for Monza.

    he he, kidding :p That’s the kind of thing FIA did in days of old if a team appealed against a decision…. “You call that harsh? I’ll show you harsh!”

  27. wow. i never knew there had been an alonso petition last year. seems sort of silly, actually.

    just out of curiousity, how long did it take for that (the alonso petiion) tally? i mean it’s now only day 3 for this one,if you count race day.

    benn, unless every newspaper or on line news feed or google homepage puts the address on their front page or posts a link then probably not many people (if you consider the total number of fans world wide) are going to know about the petition.

    and it would need to be up in many, many languages.

  28. btw- petitions don’t actually do anything even when they’re aimed at elected officials who are supposed to be sucking up to your for your vote. (personal experience, just take it at face value).

    but i signed. what the h**l- if it hits 100k by the end of the week it may at least get a mention in one or other of the actual news sites…which would be more likely to get someone’s attention.

  29. I signed it. Not because I think it will do much good, but because apathy is a very dangerous thing indeed. Just look at what apathy has done to F1 in recent times.

  30. I signed it, because at the time it pissed me off. I bet it upset Kimi Raikkonen too. If the Kimster had not crashed, with Hamilton being stripped of his win, Raikkonen would have atleast made some points towards the championship. Nobody has mentioned that!
    Poor old Kimster, when it is not your year its not your year. But seriously, I’m sick of having F1 championships contested in courtrooms rather than racetracks, regardless of whose wrong and whose right.
    On Sunday night on the Speed Channel, the phone in segment concerning F1 was lit with irate fans screaming ‘conspiracy’ and ‘pinnacle of motorsport my #$@%’! All overshadowing the fact that the 2008 Belgian Grands Prix was brilliant to watch, and a great tribute to Formula One, ruined yet again by the men in suits.
    Oh, and another thing, Rosberg was brilliant. When was the last time we had a Williams in a position to affect the outcome of an F1 race? If he had taken out Hamilton and Raikkonen, we would have had one hell of a petition going by now!!

  31. the infraction exisited, but the penalty was wrong. can I sign yes to that question?

  32. @AJ:

    “the fact that [McLaren] were on the radio to [Charlie Whiting] straight away proves they didn’t believe that lewis’ behaviour was kosher”

    And the fact that Charlie Whiting told them TWICE that he thought that Lewis’ behaviour WAS kosher means….what exactly, in your world ?

  33. My opinion about what happened – Belgian GP – Penalty- Lets Stop the Madness

    Ps: I did not sign the petition coz I felt it was worded incorrectly.

  34. Haha wow, a web petition. I think McLaren’s lawyers will have a little more pull than even a hundred thousand votes by the general public, someone the FIA manages to shaft badly everytime :)

  35. I would like to see penalty stand.

  36. McLaren are going ahead with appeal . I still feel the penalty was hard on Lewis , but it will be interesting to see what comes out of it. Most of us have probably not driven F1 cars , but have played on playstation , even that is enough to tell me that coming out of a chicane 1/2 metre behind another car , makes you lose around 10 metres from when the car in front accelerates to when you do , and Lewis did not lose 10 metres when he gave the position back. What could count in his favour though , is that Kimi may have cut in front of him in the chicane – I think they will study Kimi’s line in previous laps and compare , if that’s the case then Lewis could win.

  37. Does anyone know if Mclaren withdrew their appeal?

  38. Nope, Jolene, they pushed through with it.

  39. Thanx Journeyer. Phew! Thats a relief!

  40. So if there was a petition to hand Massa the win, would it be based on who has the most fans? I think if Hamilton waited to pass after the start/finish straight, he would have gained no advantage, and by my reckoning, he would have done it easy. He gets red mist and impatient. Experience will get him to where he needs to be. The point is that there was no precedent where Lewis was that close to Raikkonen at that point of the circuit through the whole race. He was only that close when he bypassed the chicane. Rules are rules. In saying that, there should be consistency from now on, because obviously rules have been broken in the past.

  41. Yeah, the whole championship should be decided by size of fan base, patriotism and online petitions set up by hobbyist and amateurs. Brilliant. That’s the way forward.

  42. How about create another petition against this petition?

    Reviewing the video, i think the “supposed amateur” stewards have a point.
    if Lewis didn’t cut the chicane, his McLaren won’t have the momentum to follow Kimi so close to the next corner.
    Yes, Lewis was catching up, that’s true.
    But that doesn’t justify his alleged intension to retake the lead so soon.
    Frankly, i think the paper are writing too much(for Lewis)
    how about interviewing other drivers or anybody, without a “Lewis for champion” bias?

  43. lets hope this petition continues from strength to strength.

  44. For me the greatest problem is not the penalty itself, which I think was justified, but the inconsistency, due to the fact that many similar offences have not been punished like this.

    Hamilton did lift off to let Raikkonen past but only just and he gained a very large tow down to la source. Now this a very short straight and I agree with Jarno Trulli when he says that Hamilton would not have been close enough to pass Raikkonen by the end of that straight (the track was still dry by then and Raikkonen would have kept Hamilton behind probably until les combes).

    Also I don’t subscribe to the opinion that Hamilton had nowhere to go. The cars have brakes. He could have lifted off and not cut the corner. He would have spent half a lap catching up but would have got Raikkonen eventually.

    I think that this kind of problem could solved if the FIA simply demand that when a driver cuts a corner and has to let another driver through then they must wait at least one or two corners before attempting to repass. This is easily enforcible and would prevent inconsistency. Also, these kind of incidents don’t happen four or fives times every race so there wouldn’t really be confusion either.

  45. Jack No. 44 I agree – if any driver brakes so late , he will obviously get ahead at the entry to the corner . And that’s why Kimi , may be struggling a bit by his standards this year , but he is no fool , and for that reason would not just dive out the way for Lewis. And no one , even Sir Jackie Stewart who is a renowned “anti-Ferrari” man , said he should have. That’s why I feel McLaren will struggle to win the appeal. I initially started feeling Lewis had been cheated when I first heard but the more I thought , discussed and re-looked the incident , the more I see he gained an unfair advantage. And the big unknown is , Kimi may not have crashed trying to catch him. Think back to Massa’s pass on Lewis at Hungary , he did pretty much the same thing , braked so late that he passed Lewis in the entry to the corner , to the extent he locked BOTH front wheels braking , but the big difference of course , he never ran wide off track , otherwise he also would have been penalised if he kept the position.

  46. 28 verasak – the petition already got mentioned here http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/70446 and here http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20746.html.

    Hi Journeyer – you don’t so happy about the appeal – i read your comments about slip streaming the other day, then i came across this yesterday – http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3396_4117803,00.html

    Let’s face it, no technical reasons support this penalty – all those supportive can be adequately countered through much abused precedent or sheer race craft facts; however Ferrari are very good at employing PR types to bolster public opinion in their favor and the recent quotes from Massa (who gains from the scandal) and Trulli (an Italian national) tells you just how adept they are at this game – they have won many races through politics and like Luca Di Monte said last year, he doesn’t care where the win comes from because for his marketing department, all they need is the word “WIN” to be factual in order sell lots of Ferraris.

  47. “Hamilton did lift off to let Raikkonen past but only just and he gained a very large tow down to la source.”
    Don’t you have to be behind a driver to get a tow? Lewis was never directly behind, and he was slower across the line.
    The reason he overtook was that he was more confident on the brakes and quick thinking enough to bypass Kimi’s blocking.

    I signed the petition but we all know FIA will deny this appeal on a technicality, as usual.

  48. ‘Hi Journeyer – you don’t [seem] so happy about the appeal’

    Not happy or sad per se. More like neutral. But the way I see it, it just drags the matter further, especially when you consider that given the facts and knowing the FIA, the result will probably stand.

    ‘Let’s face it, no technical reasons support this penalty – all those supportive can be adequately countered through much abused precedent or sheer race craft facts’

    If that were the case, many of those supportive should’ve been convinced, esp. the neutral ones. But they haven’t been.

    ‘however Ferrari are very good at employing PR types to bolster public opinion in their favor’

    If that were the case, then we wouldn’t be seeing a crazy press and a 30000-strong petition right now.

    ‘and the recent quotes from Massa (who gains from the scandal) and Trulli (an Italian national) tells you just how adept they are at this game’

    No surprise about Massa, but Trulli is speaking objectively. He may be an Italian, but he has no interest whatsoever in promoting Ferrari. Your thoughts seem to be verging on the paranoid regarding Ferrari.

  49. From a technical point of view, there is absolutely no doubt that the penalty is fair. But there are times when common sense must prevail. No one is greater than the sport and this incident has damaged formula 1 more than anything else.

    When Kimi won the title last year, there was a case of the BMW’s having fuel irregularities at the final race at interlagos. If they were punished (which according to the rules, they should have) then Hamilton would have won the title cause he would have gained two places. But the stewards decided not to. For the same reason that they should have thought on this occasion: it would bring the sport into disrepute!

  50. This is becoming silly now, Hamilton gained a HUGE advantage by cutting that chicane, he may have been 4kmh slower, and let’s be realistic here in that speed it’s not much of a slowdown for the short run into La Source.

    AND if anybody cared to notice when did Lewis started to speed up once Kimi had nudged slightly ahead of him so really he was much closer to Kimi when he made that attacking move had he been if he didn’t cut the chicane.

    All those who are asking for the petition in my eyes are basically saying that Lewis and McLaren should be allowed to do whatever they feel like and especially against Ferrari. Believe me I’m not a Ferrari lover in fact along with McLaren they are the two teams I despise the most so I have no vested interest in either parties when I say the punishment handed out was correct. Should it have been 25 seconds is another story all together.

  51. Given the usual response to any disagreement with their judgements, is there actually any chance that the FIA would even take notice of the petition?
    To stand up and be counted is one thing, to have your arguments listened to is something else – and wars have started over less….

  52. Journeyer

    You suggest that my views are verging on the paranoid regarding Ferrari – well, i will not dignify that with a protest – you may hold whatever view about me that you wish – i was just sharing material that countered your argument and that is pretty much accepted corporate practice ie that is why companies have PR departments, or not? Your answers to my arguments were quite adequate, though unfortunately not correct as they neither invalidate my arguments nor add to yours.

  53. ‘that is pretty much accepted corporate practice ie that is why companies have PR departments, or not?’

    some of it is accepted practice, esp. Massa. but getting a driver from a competing team to speak in your favor? that would probably be taking things too far. i’m sure toyota wouldn’t appreciate one of their drivers being paid to support ferrari when he has his own team to be concerned about. trulli shared his opinion because he wanted to, not because ferrari asked him to.

    ‘Your answers to my arguments were quite adequate, though unfortunately not correct as they neither invalidate my arguments nor add to yours.’

    i think i answered your arguments pretty well, to be honest. my 2 main points were that, first, the technical reasons in support of the penalty are INadequately countered, as the facts of precedent and racecraft can also be countered or are actually inapplicable here. second, the Ferrari PR dept. is nowhere near as good as you say they are.

  54. This is a quote from LH regarding Monza, post race I guess, published in the British press on Monday 8th September. ‘’ I am pretty sure that as a team they will work together. I don’t know whether it’s in the rules, your not allowed to have any team orders.’’ Now how asinine is that presumptuous LH comment!!! If things don’t go your own way spit your dummy out.

  55. Zeppe – do you have a link to that quote? It’s hard to tell what it’s about without any context.

  56. the quote was published in the hard copy of the Sun newspaper monday 8/9/08. it may be duplicated on their website. you can check there?

  57. I’ve signed the petition (though I do share Keith’s cynicism over online petitions).

    I honestly can’t see the FIA even reading it though, let alone changing their minds. This is the sort of thing they get high on by feeling aloof and higher than everyone else.

  58. I tried looking for it, zeppe, but I couldn’t find it. All I could find were rehashes of McLaren’s press releases.

  59. Apparently (citation needed!), Wurz and De La Rosa have spoken against it as well. De La Rosa on Spanish TV and Wurz on Austrian TV.

    Found at the bottom of this thread here:


  60. The stewards were wrong. Should have been 24 secs, no no 22 secs, no no 12 secs. How did they ever decide on 25 secs.
    I’m sure all the drivers commit offences during the race. Perhaps at the end of the race they should all be given time penalties then they could be added up, awarded, appealed against and then in 2 or 3 years the winners announced.
    See where this is leading.

  61. “Should have been 24 secs, no no 22 secs, no no 12 secs. How did they ever decide on 25 secs.”

    Because the punishment according to the rules would’ve been a drive through penalty – if the penalty is awarded after the race, then 25 seconds are added to the finishers time.

  62. You know… I’m becoming flabagasted. The FIA really loves to stab itself in the foot whenever and wherever possible.
    1) It has made itself a laughing stock with a ridiculous fiasco in relegating Lewis at Spa.
    2) It has decided to make the fans wait until the end of this month (hopefully) for a decision to be made in the SPA matter.
    3) It sure took its time to convene to decide the Max Mosley affair
    4) Oh I can’t be bothered to list all the other laughable and questionable mismanagement gems from then.

    Basically, it appears to me the management and decision making structure of the FIA needs to be seriously looked into and revised quickly. This is the 21st century and there is so much technology around to ensure swift decisions are made instantly. I’m now genuinely beginning to wonder what it is they actually do? Formula One is the pinnacle sport in their portfolio and should be given immediate and speedy priority. This is pathetic!

  63. I have questions:
    1. “The stewards, having received a report from the race director and having met with the drivers and team managers involved”

    2. From the pit wall, we asked race control to confirm that they were comfortable that Lewis had allowed Kimi to repass, and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was ‘okay’

    now we have Stewards (from FIA), we have Race Control and we have Race Director … is race director Charlie Whiting, and is Race Director part of Race Control … is Race Control part of FIA … if it is all true then why Race Director submit report about something which is OK by Race Control ?

    For me it sounds like a lot of bureaucracy around F1 pits …

    Can someone clear all these issues for me ?

  64. and something else:
    If you ask Race Control and you receive all clear, how you can be sure that you do right thing when someone else make final decisions … more confusions …

  65. Journeyer

    I am sure you have read this from Pat Symonds – he argues for me better than i would in this article http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70457 with the advantage that he understands the technical side of the sport better than i would ever do all my life.What do you make of it?

  66. I doubt it will and personally I think he deserved it, it should stick and let the championship continue from here

  67. This is what SURINDER THATHI, one of the Spa stewars said today:

    “…The British Press hates me but I can walk into any Italian restaurant… Italians love me…”

    Very, very cynical, but what we can expect from a Max´s mate?


  68. ‘”As it happened in real time, we were talking on the intercom and said: ‘Wow that was definitely a situation where he has to give the place back,'”‘

    They got so distracted, they forgot to tell Alonso to pit. Hee.

    ‘I guess we weren’t that surprised when the stewards were found to be investigating it.’

    This is telling me that regardless of what Pat thinks, it’s always going to be a marginal call one way or the other.

    ‘”To me the facts are quite clear in retrospect. I have had a look at the videos, I’ve had a look at the published data which shows that Lewis was nearly 7 km/h slower than Raikkonen across the line, you can quite clearly see on the in-car camera that he lets him get completely in front, and in my view Raikkonen just braked very early.

    “Lewis went inside him, and if you look at the in-car camera stuff, Lewis drove around the hairpin very easily. He didn’t have a big slide, he didn’t have to correct it, he hadn’t gone in too deep and come out wide, it was a perfectly legitimate manouevre, and it wasn’t that much later that Raikkonen went past him.

    “This is racing, this is what we want.”‘

    Hmmm… The thing is, DID Kimi brake VERY early? He’d have definitely braked a bit early due to the rain, but I don’t think he braked that much earlier. And it’s not the actual pass that’s being questioned, it’s whether or not Lewis would’ve been able to challenge if he hadn’t cut the chicane that’s being questioned.

    But again, a very marginal call.

  69. Up to 46614 Total Signatures now!

  70. I’ve just become signee 48811 !!

  71. http://www.petitiononline.com/teflon1/petition.html

    The petition to keep Hamiltons penatly….incase some ppl think it is needed….

  72. The Lewis Hamilton petition has now passed the 50,000 mark.

    I wonder if Pat Symonds signed it?

  73. Journeyer, thanks for posting those quotes, that seems right on the money to me. Personally I think we all saw the problems Kimi was having on the increasingly wet track so it really is not hard for me to imagine Kimi braked really quite early.

    Even if he did not though the general agreement seems to be that it’s a very marginal call. The point in that instance is surely in the case of a very marginal call you have to err on the side of not possibily affecting the entire championship with the stewards decision. If it was a clearer cut case then for sure, penalty. Given it’s so marginal, the penalty can never be a good thing.

  74. The anti-penalty petition is now 50,615, the pro-penalty is now 381.

  75. If you look at http://www.petitiononline.com it appears that the Belgium GP petition is the most active on there at the moment(currently 51,200 signatures).

  76. I think yes it’s a marginal call. But take off your ferrari conspiracy hat for a moment, you’ll see that this was the strength an character that was lacking in the stewards that allowed the 98 british granprix result to stand, when MS served his drive thru on the last lap and was allowed to keep the win.

    Some said it was genious, others that it was evil. Legal or not, the win was not deserved. I don’t believe in a Ferrari International Assistance (much) but I’d rather have an F1 where an undeserved win is taken away than have the opposite.

    Stewards with the power to make the right or wrong call are better than stewards too afraid to make any call at all.

  77. up to 52,000 now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  78. Just saw a contributor to the pro-penalty petition (you don’t have to sign it to look at the comments) which now stands at a whopping 419), signed by Max Mozley, and the comment is: “This is the only way we can make sure ferrari keeps paying me so I can spank naked n***s!” (I’ve had to blank the last word.) Seems like the signatories of that petition are really intelligent, passionate F1 fans.

    The anti-penalty petition is now on 52,583.

  79. Now more drivers agree that Hamilton got an advantage by cutting the chicane -> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70473

  80. Haas, this is what Hamilton said:

    Q. A lot of supporters have complained about the penalty, but most drivers say this matter is discussed in the briefings and they agree with the penalty. How do you receive that?

    LH: Normally in the drivers’ briefing we don’t talk about that sort of thing. And do we all agree on things? It never happens. We always have our own opinions, but they have their own right to have their own opinion about what happened. It is always easy having a certain opinion when you are not involved, or you are the one who is not winning.

    I think this is very true.

  81. True? What? Which is easy to give your opinion when you’re not involved? I know of 53000 easy-opinions of people not involved, and you stick to them as if it were your life.

    Right now, how many current drivers think the penalty was correct (he gained advantage)? And how many gave his support to Lewis? I can’t remember any.

    Rules are rules, and I’d love the stewarts to take those decisions lightning fast so that things like this don’t happen, but if 19 f1 drivers see that it was an unfair overtake, then Hamilton should do too.

    p.s. I hope Hamilton wins the championship, and I’m sure he’ll do. But it was its fault, and 53000 signatures won’t change it.

  82. This is stupid, rules are rules, and Hamilton must pay the penalty for what he has done. Alonso did it to Klien in Japan 2005 and he was immediatly ordered by the team to let Klien through properly. I said this on ITV but it hasn’t been published because it wasn’t “one of the best answers”. More likely that ITV are protecting Lewis. I think everyone seems to be missing the fact that Glock got a penalty for a yellow flag infringement, it’s not just Hamilton and McLaren getting penalties. Hamilton can’t just get away with things because he is a title contender, the rules are for everyone, and he must learn that although it seems he’s too wrapped up in his own glory at the moment. It’s a shame, he’s got some real talent, unfortunately, the one thing stopping him from winning is himself.

  83. @S Hughes
    I understand opinions are opinions but with all honesty I have to say that when people who drove on the same track under the same conditions say that a certian move was impossible I will have to take their side, as apposed to millons of people ‘watching’ the race.

    Lewis’ comments seems like he is calling the other drivers “sore losers” but in more refined way. His argument that “you werent involved” sadly wont stand coz even the stewards “werent there” according to his definition of ‘being there’.

    I dont like to scrutinize drivers remarks as they can be based on context but the fact is of the 22 drivers I havent heard a single one say he gave back the advantage he gained(except Lewis of course), so I dont believe Lewis was innocent.

  84. Haas, haven’t you been following the debate? The rules are not clear, there is no set rule for how much of a give back you have to do after cutting a chicane, McLaren was told twice by the race director Charlie Whiting that what he had done was okay, and the race director knows more about the F1 rules than a few part time nobodies, other drivers committed offences against the rules in Spa and in other races and weren’t penalised, the rules are not applied consistently, etc etc. All these arguments have been gone over again and again on here and the timesonline blog, so I don’t care if the drivers say that, I think he shouldn’t have been given ANY penalty, most observers agree, as does Pat Symonds, and numerous ex-drivers who have nothing to gain. I really think you should question motivations behind what people say. Ex-drivers and Pat Symonds and observers including Ferrari and Alonso fans all think this penalty was wrong, and they do not have as much to gain from ostracising Lewis as other drivers who are really in his shadow at the moment, in driving, in publicity and in charisma.

  85. hahahahah
    FIA do it perfect.Nobody says nothings about last year?hockenheim gp for example.

  86. Charlyn – Afraid I don’t know what you’re talking about, there wasn’t a race at Hockenheim last year.

  87. I read the autosport article on Hamilton being fired up after the penalty. While many bloggers on this F1 Fanatic came to realise that he makes comments that could only be reserved for the most pompous of Englishmen I also noticed that his comments would suggest that he isn’t banking on a success at the appeal.

    On formula1.com it has been stated that the appeal may not be admissable as the penalty was dealt in the substition for a drive thru for which appeals are not admissable. Maybe Lewis has accepted and realises he made a mistake and deserved the penalty. As we all have read, the stewards had no choice in the penalty that was given, as it turns out they had followed the rules after all.

    I also wanted to add that when I watched the race and saw the incident I instantly and I mean instantly, thought ” That’s not right!” and then when Hamilton relinquished the position the first thing I thought was “Gee that took a while” as in Hamilton should have “almost” stopped and then once Raikkonen had passed him resumed. I think when the stewards say “gained an advantage” they were talking about Hamilton not having lost out on making the mistake of running off but rather he used the cutting of the chicane to facilitate the move at La Source.

  88. Mmmmm..I think CHARLYN wanna mean GERMAN GP at NURBURGRING… Right?

  89. For all you anti hamilton supporters there’s an anti Hamilton petition you can sign, so stop moaning, only 60 votes on it, so depicts the thoughts of the public in general, and most of them are for the decision to be reversed. The Hamilton Petition now stands at more than 60,20O. If you read through some of the comments, many of them against the ruling are Farrari supporters, so who’s wrong. Get it right FIA.

  90. Oh Pondy, Pondy Pondy…….It’s been over a week and you’re still holding sour grapes! Get over it, the only thing that petition shows is that there are 60200 Lewis Hamilton fans. I find it amusing to think that you would believe that because somebody has said “I’m a Ferrari fan but I think the FIA suck” means they are and do!

    The penalty will stand and they got it right. He should have got one for forcing Webber off the road and initiating contact as well.

    By the way Pondy, isn’t “anti hamilton supporters” a false positive or double negative? What ever it is it doesn’t seem to make the same sense as “those of you that are anti lewis hamilton” Had you taken a few deep breaths and thought about what you’ve written, maybe then I would have taken you a but more seriously!

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