F1 to split in two as FOTA teams announce their own world championship

2009 F1 season

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F1 has moved a step closer to splitting in two as the eight Formula 1 Teams Association members have announced they are to form their own racing series.

A statement issued by FOTA on behalf of BMW-Sauber, Brawn GP, Scuderia Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull, Renault, Toro Rosso and Toyota announced their plans.

This leaves next year’s Formula 1 championship with only five confirmed teams: Williams, Force India, Manor, USF1 and Campos. However the FIA is understood to have several other teams ‘in reserve’ to fill up the grid. These may include the likes of Prodrive and Epsilon Euskadi, but not Lola who withdrew their 2010 application earlier this week.

Formula 1 splitting into two is the worst possible outcome of the FIA-FOTA negotiations which have dragged on for months. If this split comes to pass it will likely deal a devastating blow not just to F1, but the wider motor racing world.

We now face the prospect of a divided world championship in 2010, with neither of the two resulting series enjoying the strength that Formula 1 has accumulated in its 60-year history. At a time of such economic turmoil, it is a desperate course of action to take.

FOTA press release

Since the formation of FOTA last September the teams have worked together and sought to engage the FIA and commercial rights holder, to develop and improve the sport.

Unprecedented worldwide financial turmoil has inevitably placed great challenges before the F1 community. FOTA is proud that it has achieved the most substantial measures to reduce costs in the history of our sport. In particular the manufacturer teams have provided assistance to the independent teams, a number of which would probably not be in the sport today without the FOTA initiatives.

The FOTA teams have further agreed upon a substantial voluntary cost reduction that provides a sustainable model for the future. Following these efforts all the teams have confirmed to the FIA and the commercial rights holder that they are willing to commit until the end of 2012.

The FIA and the commercial rights holder have campaigned to divide FOTA. The wishes of the majority of the teams are ignored. Furthermore, tens of millions of dollars have been withheld from many teams by the commercial rights holder, going back as far as 2006. Despite this and the uncompromising environment, FOTA has genuinely sought compromise.

It has become clear however, that the teams cannot continue to compromise on the fundamental values of the sport and have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 World Championship. These teams therefore have no alternative other than to commence the preparation for a new Championship which reflects the values of its participants and partners.

This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders. The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series.

Read more: Max Mosley is wrong. The only split F1 needs is a break away from him

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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607 comments on “F1 to split in two as FOTA teams announce their own world championship”

  1. What a shame

    1. I agree a shame , but nothing we didn’t see coming.

    2. “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”

      This bible quote pretty much sums it all up. max mosley is the satan. He’s the anti-christ that the bible refers to. all good things have to come to an end. F1 too had an end. This is the end of an era. F1 R.I.P.

      & to max & bernie——— U’ll rot in hell.

      1. Never did I think I would see a Bible reference on a site like this, but you pretty much said it all there…

      2. ‘Rot in hell’ might be going a bit too far, but let’s just say I won’t be sending Max ‘spankalot’ Mosley any Christmas cards this year. I’m 100% behind FOTA- and I don’t even like Ferrari!

        1. i know, i can’t stand ferrari, but i would never watch F1 without them, nor any of the other major teams. It just wouldn’t be the same.
          I think everyone saw it coming and Max should be seriously ashamed of himself. I don’t see how you can introduce radical new rules and then put a budget cap on top of that. I hope at least that 1. FOTA races at donnington park and 2. Nico Rosberg moves to a FOTA team

  2. Good! No more Max and Bernie!! wooohoooo!!!

    1. Maybe not…..I’m sure if they can they will find a way to get involved and mess it up somehow.

      1. i always knew max mosley was a nutcase, but today he’s gone one step ahead and completely proved me correct. I stand vindicated. he’s completely lost in a reality forgotten land. this is the height of lunacy. no responsible head of a international organization would utter such nonsense. what does he mean by saying F1 can do without the nine teams. this is just unbelivable. he has no respect for the chair he holds. the guy must understand that the teams were the ones who put him onto the coveted chair. This is a perfect example of misuse of power & authority. This guy is hell bent upon inflicting incurable wounds on the sport. the way things are moving we might lose the sport forever. isn’t there a voluntary retirement scheme in the FIA? please this man should be kept as far away as possible from f1. first he lost his image, then he lost his son, now he is hell bent on losing the sport. it was very clear from the outset that these decisions were only of max. how can one lunatic be allowed to hold the entire sport at randsom? i’ve long ago realized that online petitions are of no use. we the average f1 fan must do something about this man. i would suggest boycotting the races, be it on the circuits,TV,internet, print media everywhere. why i say this is, the only man who i think is capable of installing some sense into max mosley is bernie. now bernie handles the commercial aspects of f1. so without “us” the average f1 fan, bernie=0, so in such a scenario, max will have to give into bernie’s demands. we all know how greedy & commercial bernie is. so there is no way bernie will put max ahead of his commercial interests. so the only way to save this sport is to completely BOYCOTT it until max gives into bernie’s demand. There is an old chinese proverb:


        so i’ve taken my first step. i’ll not be watching the british gp on tv. so definitely the TRP rating will go down, cuz many of my friends will be joining my boycott, we are about 600 ppl. hope ppl do the same thing. this is to bring the trp rating down. bernie always keeps blabbing tv viewers. he’s gone as far as saying that TV audiences are more important than circuit fans. so this boycott must pinch bernie in his butt. only then he’ll blink.
        please save this wonderful sport or else we’ll lose it forever.

        1. the sport will rise like the pheonix from the flames of old! and bout time to the sport has slowly but surly been going the wrong road since 05 and we havnt seen real battles since 06. my point being there is a new hope on the table i think that the great 8 will go back a few years keep the v8’s but go back to the great rule’s three tire wings, sticky tyre’s that suit the car and driver the best, 1 engine per race w.end flat out racing as the great mika would put it (im a ferrari fan but even i knew he was magic!!) all the thing’s that matter then us the fan’s can get back to the good ol days of disliking each other because thats 1 of the thing that sport is… any sport!its about or own we sunday war of word between friends and fow on who is the best team the best driver. these are the things that f1 has been mising i never turned races of in 20 years till last year when the car in front stayed there unless there was a problem! now i only watch the first 10 r 15 mins then the last half hour now i only look 4ward to moto gp! for hard fast exciting racing i have a great filling of butter flys in the tummy as we are about to move into a new and bright age thank god for the chaos theary it give hope to the masses and dispair to the greedy!! sorry for any spellin mistakes pep’s

    2. beware: the unknown evil is sometimes worse than the known evil.

      this didn’t work with cart/irl and it won’t work here, if it actually happens. i’m not 100% convinced it will.

      either way, this won’t be good.

      1. Not exactly like CART/IRL; more like CART/USAC which went just fine for CART.

  3. Really? REALLY really? I’ll believe it when I see it. Shame on the journos (like the one on 5live) who are taking this without a pinch of salt.

    1. Is the official FOTA website a shameful “journos”?

  4. Shocking- I hope it will not come to pass.

    If it dose happen, I hope USF1 jumps with the FOTA bunch.

    1. I hope that USF1 has a get out clause with FIA so they can join fota if they wish.

      1. Exactly- hopefully they aren’t signed up to any kind of contract with the FIA. Same for Cmpos and Manor, for that matter.

        1. Well, I think Williams & Force India will also jump ship to FOTA. That is, if they are smart. ‘Cos I know whose series I’ll be watching next year, and it won’t be S&Max’s one.

          1. I’ll second that Mrs.Pink….and I hope USF1 does the same,I finally get a home team to root for and the bottom fell out of F1!

            Maybe they can call the new series “F” Max…as in “F” off….sorry,I have been saving that one.

          2. Well it would seem that Williams have put all their cards in the FIA F1 camp and don’t want anything to do with FOTA’s series.

        2. I am not a lawyer, but I imagine that by submitting their application to the FIA (along with the money), they’re already bound to some form of a contract. Whether or not that contract has escape clauses and loopholes is another issue. I think the entry forms can be found online, but I do not have time to read through them right now…

          1. Ahh yes but the smart lawyer would ensure that if the FIA are unable to provide a decent field that no doubt FI, Williams and co. have signed up to compete again, he would/should a clause to the effect of “If the Federation and governing bodies are unable to provide all the conditions to which the undersigned have committed to, then it is at the discrection of the undersigned as to if they are going to compete in the competition for the duration signed”. Or there abouts! Let’s not forget that Max’s list for who is signed for 2010 included FOTA members. If they’re not going to compete then I would suggest that have breached contract if not some other law.
            I think all that makes sense?!?!

          2. When I say that they’ve breached contract I am refering to the FIA, for providing a list of competitors that they couldn’t be sure were going to be there in 2010. So those that have pledged allegiance to the FIA are well within their rights to believe that the FIA have mislead them in providing a list they couldn’t be sure was correct.

            Don’t worry I have confused myself also!!!

  5. Wow FIA really are stupid. I can’t believe this has actually happened :(

    1. Wow FIA really are stupid.

      You think that it’s the FIA that are stupid?

      1. Max should resign now!!!
        19th June 2009, 1:57

        I agree with Tommy they’ve let this escalate to huge proportions and now look what we have.

      2. Yes they are….and have been for a few years now.

      3. They could both be stupid, but FIA a litle more stupid i think.

    2. I don’t think anybody involved is stupid – stubborn, maybe, but not stupid. This may just be the highest-stake gamble ever.

      This is just my ignorant opinion, but I think the FIA’s intent was actually good – they simply wanted sustainability. I am still looking forward to F1 racing next year. Obviously, the teams had their own way of doing it. I think the FIA had to stand their ground in order to provide stability for next year’s rules. If they kept pushing back deadlines, nobody could start developing their cars for next year (and teams are already starting), let alone all the sponsorship implications that result from uncertainty. The FIA is the rule maker and they had to draw a line in the sand. I actually think Max was being fairly accommodating. I think the FIA is right in saying that there were some teams that were intent on splitting from F1 one way or another.

      While the FOTA press release makes their new series sound like it will be a dream come true, it’s still too early to declare it International Rainbows and Bunnies Day. I am a bit skeptical that the FOTA can pull off a new series in 2010 with this kind of time frame. They now face a whole new set of challenges. In any kind of organization, you’ll have competing factions – we just witnessed what happens when factions involved in F1 can’t get along. Well, now that one of those factions has their own thing started, it will only be a matter of time before egos and personal agendas (not that those things would ever exist in big money international motorsport! lol) will form new factions there. The FOTA’s road is about to get even more difficult. I also imagine there will still be attempts to prevent this split, so it’s far from over. Time will tell.

      Like I said, this is just my ignorant opinion, so I’m probably the one who’s going to be called stupid here.

      1. Not ignorant at all.

        On the outside chance a breakaway series can even be logistically & financially created in such a short period of time, it will only be a matter of a 2, maybe three years at the most before the obvious conflicts of interest (with the teams being both competitors & legislators) tear the new series apart.

        Why would someone spend 300-400 million a year to be a back marker (with no hope of advancing due to the rival governing factions) when 1/4 the amount could be spent to be competitive? That’s a tough sell to the board of directors at Toyota, Renault or even BMW.

        Sure, Max & Bernie suck. Rip-off artists, scammers, opportunists the case can be made for all these titles. In this case however, FOTA may not be any better & in the long run, I fear they will likely be worse.

  6. I’m pretty nervous about this news – not quite sure how to feel about it… it will certainly be interesting at Silverstone this weekend that’s for sure.

    I have to say that in my opinion, the FIA have brought this upon themselves and although I agree this result is not ideal, it is the only way Max and Bernie are to be dispensed with.

    1. We all should be nervous about this situation.

      Maybe the Phoenix will rise up out the FIA ashes and a new sport will be born that will be see n to run effectively for longer than 60 yrs.

      1. I knew there was going to be a Phoenix reference in there somewhere bud ;)

        1. nothe Phoenix reference comes later in theis article bud.

  7. I can see max on his knees begging for the ‘FOTA 8’ to come back when he realises there’s only gonna be three teams capable of fielding cars. The sheet has officially hit the fan!

    1. Max will only realise he has done wrong in the years ahead. In the meantime he will just add the other lesser teams to the F1 grid for next year. He will obviously think that it will be a match for any FOTA series.

    2. I thought the FIA would back down, but I don’t think they’re the begging type :-P also, it’ll just be too little too late.

      I’ve had a think now about this and can’t wait for the new series, was worried at first. But the history is with the teams and the people, we wont forget F1, the new series will be way better, going back to circuits they used to race, cheaper tickets, better regulations :) it’ll be great!

  8. Yeah, Lenny, I can see Max on his knees too… Being whipped by some escorts dressed as prison guardians.

      1. I’m afraid this is not a laughing matter.
        I know it’s only sport, but peoples lives and jobs are at stake here. This is a very serious situation.

        I for one hope that the powers that be in the FIA and WMSC don’t see this as just a threat and take it seriously and do something about it.

        I would rather have F1 fixed than dismantled.

        1. but peoples lives and jobs are at stake here

          I get sick of reading this, sorry scunnyman but peoples lives and jobs are at stake every day of the week and I don’t here anyone campaigning for that.

          1. well said Dougie, I’m tired of hearing this too

          2. Well how many times do you get high thousands of people losing their jobs all in one go, and from the same highly skilled industry.
            it’s not like there is a big market out there for all these jobs.

            Maybe the new crappier F1???

          3. Well how many times do you get high thousands of people losing their jobs all in one go

            Well not from F1 that’s for sure… at the most it’ll be a couple of thousand… and that’s me being generous, I doubt it’ll make 4 figures at all.

            However, if the media is any indication, then most months of the year there are thousands of jobs lost in a single event.

        2. I don’t think any jobs are at stake, i think jobs are actually going to be made, because obviously, the teams just cant keep track of themselves, there needs to be a body whcih will deal with the paperwork as so to speak.
          I agree that F1 should be fixed and all the teams should be back together again, but i don’t think that is going to happen. Mosley has left it too late.
          Hopefully though, if they do split, they can show up Mosley big time. When he sees all the big teams really successful and really popular, he really will be begging on his knees for mercy and forgiveness.

  9. OMG!!!!!!!!!!!
    This is probably what we all wished would happen, but really thought it never would. Yes, no more Max. Maybe no more Bernie? In fact, FOTA may be just playing their last BIG card hoping FIA folds at the last minute. FIA aquieses or FOTA really does get a new series going next year. I’ll tell you guys, I have lived through the CART/Indycar stuff and it really hurts the entire series regardless of whose side you’re on.
    Having said that, FOTA has Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes/McLaren, Renault and the rest. Could be different. It really does have the potential to be great! Especially based on the FOTA announcement posted on Autosport. WOW! Freakin’ incredible! F1 never ceases to amaze me for drama.

    1. You are correct in that this isn’t exactly like the IRL/CART split. With IRL/CART you had a division of the big name teams/drivers/etc between the two factions. Arguably you had more big names going to CART and more of the big venues sticking with IRL. In this case you’ll have virtually all of the big names going with the FOTA option. FOTA also has the chance to pick up on some big name venues as well. This may be the last F1 race at Silverstone, but FOTA could be back next year. This would be a big blow to FIA as there is no guarantee they will have a place to hold an F1 British Grand Prix next year. Also some F1 events now trade off between venues in alternate years. If the FOTA were to be able to secure contracts with some of those venues on their off years, it would be another big boost to the FOTA product.

      The FIA division will also have some difficulty from the economy. The sponsors were already planning on cutting back even before the split. Now sponsors have to decide which of the two series to back. This will likely lead a lot more of them to sit out a year and see who attracts more fans. The big name teams will be more apt to have sponsors who will not risk losing their relationships. If you think about it from the sponsors’ perspective, are you more likely to risk losing your chance to be associated with Campos or Ferrari? No offense to any Williams or Force India fan out there, but they aren’t the current F1 teams that have sponsors calling them to get on board. There is a real possibility of seeing most of the F1 field open the season with a nearly sponsorless chassis, like Brawn had at the start of this year. And face it, if Brawn hadn’t started this year on fire and wasn’t the big front runner this year, they would have probably finished the year with a plain white car.

      Overall this is definitely not a desirable outcome, but still it probably won’t turn out as disastrous as the IRL/CART split. I just don’t see this one as quite as even a split. The economics of the matter put some pressure on Max and Bernie to compromise, as the alternative for them is to personally subsidize the F1 series for at least next year and almost certainly several more. Even if F1 proves to be the series that makes it, they will have a terrible time getting sponsors next year. If FOTA has bigger names and lower ticket prices, that puts incredible pressure on F1 to match or undercut the FOTA ticket prices. Put all this together and it appears F1 will be bleeding money next year.

      1. The big question, however, is how will the FOTA series do financially, and if they have major losses who will absorb them and how long can they keep it up?

        1. forget that – that’s in the future… the big question is how are they going to put in a set or rules, governance, car spec and design rules, secure tracks, branding, advertising and everything else associated with running a race series in just a half dozen months?

          this stinks of calling the fia’s bluff and failure.

          1. Getting the details lined out is actually the easy part:
            -Car spec: use the cars from 2009, or 2008 specs

            -Governance & Rules: FOTA knows what rules work and which don’t, lots of experience on those teams, and for a sanctioning body, the fellow over at MotoGP could help out there, or they could appoint their own governing body

            -Tracks: plenty of tracks will jump at the chance for a FOTA race. no problem there, and working out financial arrangements with tracks should be pretty standard in the industry(and I’d think many tracks would be happier to work with FOTA than Bernie, as they’d not take such a financial beating

            All the FOTA teams have their own batteries of lawyers and “go to” guys, the ones who get things done–they could put the whole package together quickly, I’d think–I’d wager they have been working on many parts of it for several weeks now

            Media coverage will be the thing, of course….wonder what TV coverage would like to have the series Ferrari, McLaren and the LAST F1 Champion are racing in/…probably all of them, and bet the calls are going on behind the scenes already

            Make no mistake, if FOTA is serious, and I think they are, half the world will jump to them with offers of help in putting the new series on, and I believe that goes for sponsors too.

        2. oh an tv rights, line up international broadcasters and times slots that would no doubt conflict with f1 and all the other racing series out there…

          1. Frankly TV is probably one of the easier things to do in a hurry. They can get on television in most of the developed world with one call to Rupert Murdoch. News Corp has the geographic reach to put them on the air nearly everywhere. Granted there are better media outlets than the News Corp option in some markets, but still if they felt pressure to get something done FAST, it could be done. Then before the 2011 series they could have something better lined up. This wouldn’t perfect from the start, but at least its something to build from.

  10. “go form your own series” said the Dictator…

    Seems like FOTA duly listened.

    1. Indeed

  11. Good on them. If a deal had been reached, Max and Bernie would still be in charge, so that would be like treating the symptoms of a disease, not the cause.

    1. I think the only deal Fota would really accept would involve the resignation of Mosley. And that my friends ain’t gonna happen.

      1. That’s what’s so great about this new championship! :)

  12. bargaining chip imo

    1. just like last time

  13. Oh yeah, if this really does come to pass I can only hope Williams goes with FOTA. USF too! (Although both have already signed up with FIA. Probably too late.) Pretty sure Williams can win that division of entrants though. Maybe even Force India! :-)

    1. If the split really does happen and we get a watered down F1 then it will be the same as champ car. At least then Rosberg will become 4 times f1 champ just as Bourdais did in Indycar.

      1. Williams took the money and was forced to enter unconditionally. And Rosbergs contract is up for renewal this year so who knows where he will go…

  14. Hopefully if they do come to terms they should agree to get rid off Bernie and Max.

    1. I’m sorry to say but it ain’t gonna happen. Too much bureaucracy going on in that party.

      1. I’m sorry to say but it ain’t gonna happen. Too much bureaucracy going on in that party.

        Gotta agree with this one.

  15. Now Max can make F1 Formula Cosworth and we can watch FOTA become F1.

    1. Now Max can make F1 Formula Cosworth and we can watch FOTA become F1.

      As I said before,It can never be ‘Formula One’.

      1. Just because Bernie owns the rights to certain names and the FIA owns F1, doesnt mean it wont be F1. Everyone in the world was calling something a grand prix when it wasnt even a race and still people know that GP means F1 and the real fans will follow the real racing not the made show.

      2. It could be possible for the european motor manufacturers to buy the F1 commercial rights from CVC. Bernie was retained as the CEO of CVC but an offer to purchase could just relieve Bernie form his contractual obligations to TV broadcasters, race promoters etc. One thing is sure Bernie will find himself in breach of contract if the FOTA teams are not featured in 2010 and beyond as an alternative F1 is not what these guys have signed contracts for.

    2. There is no way FOTA can call themselves F1 in any form whatsoever, so long as Bernie owns the rights.

      Maybe the should call it EFFWON LOL?

      1. Perhaps “F W O N” or “FotaWon”, whatever they call it, I’ll back them.

        I was also toying with “World Auto Racing” , or “WAR”, which I thought was fitting.

        1. that was good. WAR!

          1. I think this one’s catchy: Racing Inside Fast Tracks, or RIFT.

        1. Great lol particularly the “fotawon” got my vote

  16. I am so glad to see Brawn on that list. This is great the champ leader saying they will leave too. Awesome just awesome f*&k Bernie and Max and those FIA a-holes they can all just go and rot in hell where they belong. All the fans will follow FOTA well at least 90% of them will, F1 will be no more well at least governed by the FIA it will be no more. NF1 (New f1) will be much better without stupid regs and crazy rule changes every year. Way to say take your medal system and your budgets and shove them where the sun don’t shine.

    1. well said

    2. i highly doubt the majority will follow the new sport.

      just like any break away or dispute, people don’t react well to change and end up keep doing what they do. watching f1.

      1. I disagree, I think fans will watch whichever series has familiar names and teams, and that looks like the proposed FOTA series.

        If the FOTA series goes ahead and they stick to their objectives then in my mind it’s going to be a fairly good series as it is focused on the fans, rather than the power and wealth of two people.

      2. People should prepare themselves for a long hard road ahead if a new series is to succeed, if a new series even gets started.
        It is not going to be easy to setup. Will take a **** load of cash. A lot of cooperation from many different parties. And it may take a few years to settle down.

        I for one will proabbly watch both series (if that is at all possible) just to see who will get it right.

        I’m sure FOTA have the right will to succeed, but the FIA have everything in place already.

        I would hope that level heads prevail in FIA and they see that the protagonist is Mosley and without him in the mix they can resolve thing easily i’m sure.

      3. Yeah, but when the teams that currently make up F1 as we know it are racing somewher else (in nations where there are really good fanbases) don’t you think people are still going to watch those teams and races?

        1. Much like the tifosi who will pretty much follow Ferrari wherever they go.

  17. Great day to be an italian speaking laywer.

  18. GPFanatic here we come

    1. I’d get that url before anyone else does ;)

  19. Well let see what happens now. The FIA will take ferrari and redbull to court, but that cannot prevent them competing in another series. Presendence has already been set, Max said f1 doesn’t need Ferrari and further to that, FIA did not force honda to stay.

    Rebull f1 will go broke then come back as redbull fota. Cant sue a company that is bankrupt.

    A good portion of F1, CVC and Bernies contracts will fall over as of COB Friday arvo, what will happen then.

    f1 cars in 2010 will be no longer. Cosworth were already struggling to build a engine up to current specs, how on earth do they propose to build enough engines for 10 teams, impossible task. Current f1 motor takes 5 days to build.

    Mclaren ECU will no longer be part of the sport. So no electronics, and the best one for me. Only manufacture teams have been developing the gearboxes seemless shift etc etc. Cosworth dont have a gear box. Were on earth are these new teams going to get a gear box from that can be as realiable.

    In all honesty though. I think this will be resolved really quickly. The FIA will have no option but give the teams what they want. Once they see the financial fall out world wide CVC and Bernie will have no option.

    1. Problem is, FIA can’t give in like that. They have already agreed to their ridiculous rules on budget caps, etc. and if they go back on those, they will get sued by the other 8+ teams who are counting on the new rules…

      I think it’s going to happen, and I’m pretty excited about it actually!

    2. Williams make gearboxes. Why do you think BMW were competitive from scratch? In fact, Williams had the best seamless shift after the 2006 gremlins.

      I can’t see FOTA teams keeping their sponsors. Where are they going to race? How long ’til all the regs are written? What are the car specs? Where are the marshals, medico’s and all the things coming from that make a GP weekend? This is just a threat, saying “we can ruin everything for everyone too Max.” Plus, Max has already started backing down.

      1. The best time to push home your advantage is when your opponent is already in retreat…

      2. Williams is one team. Are they going to provide a gearbox for the whole grid with less then 6 months prep time. Don’t think so. Also 06 is a long time ago. That gearbox would be below par compared to today standards.
        As for FOTA and a new series. I don’t think it will be as hard as you think actually quite easy. The current f1 grid apart from 4 cars is what your getting for a racing series. F1 is the name, but the teams are the show.
        Sponsors will go were the popular teams go. Vodafone wont advertise with Williams if there competing against no name f1 teams in a second rate series with no exposure. Bernie will be having contracts falling over as we speak. Because every contract will have strict clauses regarding the teams, exposure, etc etc.
        Race tracks are easy to come buy. Not hard to get 17 tracks world wide to host the current f1 grids apart from 4 cars for ½ if not 1/3 of what Bernie Charges. Think about it. Silverstone, Mugello, San Marino, Indy, there are several f1 style tracks world wide that Bernie ditched that would love to host a race.
        Car specs will be identical to this year. Or identical to those proposed and reject by the FIA.
        Marshalls an medico will be provided by the track as they currently are.
        Regs will be identical to current. There is nothing stopping the teams using the same rules, cars etc etc as current.
        The more i think about it the more i think this threat is real contrary to what i said earlier.

        1. It’s real but I don’t think you’ve seen the last of Bernie yet.

          Xtrac will provide the gearboxes.

          Cosworth used to supply most of the teams at one time. In those days the teams used as many engines as they wanted to.

          It won’t be too hard for FOTA to get the infrastructure up and going most of it already exists and does not belong to the FIA or FOM.

          1. Yeah cosworth use to, but dont know. They have gone from supplying 120 engines. (3 teams with a couple of blow ups) close to 500 engines accross the entire grid.

            It takes merc 5 days to build an engine. and i dare say they would have it down pat. I dont think cosworth would have it down pat considering they have to revive an engines 3 years old.

            Not only this, I would think some teams like Prodrive (merc second team), Ntechnology,(ferrari second team) would now sign up with fota.

    3. Williams can step in a supply the gearbox. Standard ECU of Mclaren can still be used as its supplied by a different company. But who cares anyway, I’ll be watching the FOTA side of the wall. By the way how many hundreds of millions did the BBC pay for rights to F1 coverage?

  20. “This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders.”

    “The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series.”

    Listening to the fans :)

    1. Well i will believe that when i see it all. If all goes badly with FIA over this latest statement then i want to see a detailed run down of how they intend to get the new series up and running and how much input they may want from us FANS.
      As Ferrari seem to be the leaders of FOTA, and they have quoted Keith’s site then maybe they will ask Keith for his and our input????

      1. not your input definitively. You’ve been bashing the FOTA in every thread of this forum :)

        I’m starting to think you’re Bernie :)

  21. The sri lankan
    19th June 2009, 0:54

    Some one please tell me this is a joke. i always thaught this idea of a seperate championship was indeed a Leverage plan. why does Max have to bve so dam stubborn? this is exactly what happened to Indyacars and champcars and back in the day that series used to be the alternative to f1 until they destoyed thmselves. i really trully pray that common sense prevails and these people stick to the normal F1 championship

  22. K, I hope they see it through though. It’s time to have a proper racing series. And I hope the court cases against Ferrari and Red Bull, the ones definitely going to happen, don’t detract from this.

  23. Damn..ass..hell…

  24. Go FOTA. I’ll watch.

  25. It’s looking extremely likely Button will be the last F1 World Drivers Champion.

    2007 and 2008 were two of the most entertaining seasons I have witnessed. Not capitalising on this just highlights how much the FIA and FOM have blundered IMHO.

    1. I disagree on Button.

      He’ll just be the last REAL F1 World Drivers Champion.

      If things are not sorted like grownups then from 2010 they will be lesser champions.

  26. Well I’ll be, if this doesnt bring Max, Bernie and the FIA to its knees nothing will. I will certainly follow the FOTA series if it starts, but I do believe this is the last ace in the pack and are calling the FIA’s bluff. Either way the new series would finally allow some awesome engineering and racing machines. I for one will be watching. F1 next year without the current teams will wither away and never recover. The FIA have to collapse now, but more likely Bernie will be proverbially sh****ng himself!

    1. I am very surprised at how quiet Bernie has been lately.

      1. Me too. I wonder what he’s doing behind the scenes?

  27. Hopefully this also means an end to Sepang, Singapore, Shanghai, Valencia and Barcelona.

    Hopefully FOTA sees sense and includes Magny Cours, Montreal, Jerez, Portimao and A1 Ring.

    1. Don’t forget one or more venues in the United States as well….

      1. Agreed Gman.

        I’m sure FOTA (and don’t forget they can’t be called fota if they are not in F1) know the importance of the USA market and will try to get someone Like Tony George to help them sort a couple of venues in America. Even help the series in America too.

        1. Indeed, thanks for the backing. Also, a FOTA series would protect races in Britian, France, Canada, and elsewhere. We’d also see venues that have good fanbases- Mexico, Argentina- return hopefully.

          The really ironic thing is if a new series dose come to Indy, where many people think Tony George’s ego was the overwhelming factor in the IRL/Champ Car split.

    2. The A1 Ring. Ewwwwwwww. Maybe if you travelled back in time and stole the one from the 70’s. Where in time is Caromn Santiego styles.

    3. Niel, the grandstands and pit buildings of the A1 Ring were demolished long ago. The rebuilding will be finished by the end of 2010, and Dietrich Mateschitz (the owner) has ruled out any chance of a F1 (or a FOTA-series, probably) race in the venue. It will only be used for DTM races.

  28. Max should resign now!!!
    19th June 2009, 1:00

    I hope it’s only a bluff. Anyway if it¿s true than it’s a very very sad thing. I’ll never watch F1 again and I hate to admit that the FOTA championship or however it will be called will not be the same it will take many years to develp a mystique around it.
    F1 R.I.P.

    1. True, it won’t have the history of F1 :(

      1. Duh!!!! think back to 1949. Was there a Formula One Chamionship then????
        Nope. Of course not. It took years to get a history and a mystique.

        And it does not mean that the races will not have the history.

        Just think of the INDY 500. How many different series has that been involved? if you look at the trophy for indy it will have all the winners whichever series they were in at the time.

        So look at Monaco, which may go to the FOTA run series. It wouldn’t be a F1 race anymore but the winner would still be classed along all previous winners.

        Really the point is, if F1 dies then the new series will be F1 in all but name.

        1. Max should resign now!!!
          19th June 2009, 8:13

          I’m just pointing out that this is a shame and a waste we already had 60 years of history within the sport and it’s been great so far.
          Maybe Monaco will be there in the calendar but who knows how much longer it will take for Spa, Monza, Suzuka, Interlagos and others to join? Just the name change will be confusing for may who watch the races occasionally. I’m all for FOTA and their series but I would really prefer for Mosley to resign and everything to continue as it is now (Of course with all the things FOTA is proposing).
          Now the first couple of years could be horrible not all fans are going to jump to FOTA’s series many will be confused by having fia’s F1 racing side by side and I guess not all of us are going to be able to watch the races, that will depend on how fast TV coverage grows.
          I live in Argentina and I never get to see Le Mans it’s one of the most important races of the year but T.V. stations here think it’s not worth to broadcast it. So I do have some doubts about this.
          So i hope it’s a big bluff from FOTA but if it’s not well then LONg LIVE FOTA!!!

        2. Monaco have said earlier they are not interested in an F1 race without Ferrari.

  29. Good for the FOTA to make a stand and the willingness to take a risk and start something that adhere to their values instead of someone elses. I am sure the new series will have alot of hicups but I for one will be looking forward to its growth and races!

  30. Scott Joslin
    19th June 2009, 1:06

    Urgh!!!! When will this hell end! A split will never work.

    Mosley needs de-throning – end of, then we can have a proper debate.

    As Martin Brundle puts it “Come on guys, lets take a sensible pill”

    What a way to overshadow the last Grand Prix at Silverstone. Shame!

    1. I think this is great news for Silverstone personally.

      FOTA will almost certainly have them on the list for the new series. this effectively saves hundreds of jobs at the circuit.

      1. I agree, and perhaps the best part is about hundreds of jobs being saved. Max and Bernie were too big to think about that kind of stuff……

  31. It’s too bloody late in the night for me to wrap my head around this and all its implications now. I just know that FOTA’s proposals in their press release, though fantastic, sound very idealistic…if the ‘new series’ isn’t a massive bluff.

    Whatever happens now, I still support FOTA and trust that this is the best course of action they felt they could take.

  32. Oh and another thing, if it does go through we can get rid of those piddly 2.4 litre engines and get some turbo power going!

    1. If you want your drivers to pull 8g, pass out, crash and die then yes, by all means bring back turbo. And let’s have ground effect as well while we’re at it.

      Engineering tolerances aren’t just for carbon fibre and rubber…

      It’s a bit of a harsh response but people forget why these things were banned in the first place.

  33. Lets hope that the FOTA hold firm – a dictatorship as exists now is not good for any sport
    One question – what tracks will be avaliable for the new series? Silverstone may get a GP next year after all and please bring back Nurburg, Montreal and maybe Adelaide!!!!!!

    1. The last 2 plus Silverstone would be great- plus one or more in the United States.

      I’m not sure how many of the current venues are tied in with FOM Contracts, but assuming any circuit can join, we can have Suzuka every year :) plus Imola, Algarve, Motorland Aragon, and lost of other good ones.

      Plus, no more Valencia, Barcelona, Hungaroring ;)

      1. Max should resign now!!!
        19th June 2009, 1:26

        Imola!!! that would be great! What about Laguna Seca? I’m drooling already…

      2. Well m8 if you are right and FOM may have no hold over the circuits, maybe FOTA will really listen to us fans and have a survey they really listen to which could include which tracks we would like to be used along with other bits and pieces we might like.

  34. Bye Bye Max and Bernie… Hello FOTA! :) I’m all for the split, if even after this call Max and co refuse to give in. I’ll watch. Hopefully Sky TV here in New Zealand take up coverage of this new championship! (and keep F1 coverage, if Prodive, Williams etc end up on the grid next year).

  35. Good.

    F1 was always about racing & innovation.

    FIA was about politics and ego for too long.

    I wish the FOTA every sucess and look forward to the racing.


  36. I think Williams and Force India might start to scratch their heads as their sponsors would think twice to pour them some money for some kind of F3 races, in which there will be no Ferrari, Macca, Reanult or so.

    1. Maybe if they had sense both teams would have a get out clause in their contracts so they could jump back to FOTA if they wish.
      Frank Williams has been quoted as saying they are there for racing only so i’m sure they would want to be in a series for real racing, and not the kind of racing we might see in F1 if this split does go ahead.

  37. Prisoner Monkeys
    19th June 2009, 1:19

    I sincerly hope that this is an eleventh-hour attempt to scare the FIA into … something. I remain convinced that a FOTA-backed series is doomed to failure for several reasons, including a lack of teams; FOTA can field sixteen cars where the FIA can run with twenty-six. FOTA cannot get new teams from anywhere: given the economy, no-one is going to be willing to build a team from the ground up, and the FIA already has all the entries in their pocket. Likewise, you can bet Bernie Ecclestone will be signing contracts with circuits to say they’ll work with him and none other (unless he hasn’t done so already). Everything needs to be negotiated with corprorate sponsors, broadcast partners, circuits owners and event organisers, all of which will take time that FOTA does not have.

    1. FOTA teams might race on track with 3 cars per team, which makes it 24.

      1. Prisoner Monkeys
        19th June 2009, 1:47

        Yeah, and that’s going to be cheap.

        1. I don’t think you can make someone sign a contract preventing them from doing business with another party. And why would a race track want that. For the joy of paying BE $60 Million a year (with no Ferrari ect).

          Besides. You can look for tracks outside the F1 calender. BE can’t sign em all. I can’t see Nurb or Hock going to sign to BE. They barely wanna pay what he wants now.

    2. I think you will find FOTA series will be more popular, Bernie cannot stop tracks hosting other races. This is commerical suicide for the track and not only this against the law. As for new teams. A fota series unlike the f1 series will more then likely gurantee 80% – 90% of tv revenue goes to the teams. Unlike current. It has already been worked out a new series will give the teams the same money they are currently getting. Difference is they own the series, The have a vested interest in it therefore they will all work together. As for tracks, Silverstone will sign up tommorrow morning. Existing tracks that bernie does not own can do what ever they like. Think about it you can host the current f1 grid bar 4 teams at 1/2 if not 1/3 of the cost. Not only that the deal is sweetened further with the tracks owning everything. Paddock club etc etc. Currently different companies own advertising boards, paddock club etc etc. Tracks will make profit.

      You also need to think that there would be several contract relating to f1 and bernie that will fall over. People signed contract with the current grid. I have no doubt if 80% of that grid walk away, there will be breaches.

      Bernie, FIA and f1 is dead all because of power, cash and ego’s.

      The winner here is the fans.

    3. Several teams have pulled out their application to enter F1, Lola and N technologies, who is to say the others on the waiting list will not do likewise.

  38. I wonder what the BBC will do

    1. If Bernie goes with FOTA (a possibility) then BBC have a contract with FOM, not the FIA.

      Bernie also has the rights to the ‘Formula One’ name (the FIA, as I understand, have ‘World Championship’)

      In a way, ironically, the fans might actually need Bernie in order to keep the racing on a terrestrial channel.

  39. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8108492.stm

    Phone interview thing, with David Croft on 5live. Apparently they already have a list of possible tracks they may choose to race at.

    1. Just listened to the radio interview, i found it very interesting, but nothing we didn’t already know.

  40. Maurice Henry
    19th June 2009, 1:24

    This is the link.

  41. The sri lankan
    19th June 2009, 1:26

    actually……does this mean teams will start work on a new car? im sure for most teams work on the the 2010 F1 challangers are underway but with a new series what are the cars going to look like and whren does the work on them start? its quite late as it is to make another racing car th this stage especially for next year. any thoughts?

    1. tracks are hard. insurance and promoters will be difficult. But when people have a chance to make millions of dollars and give a giant FU to a hated political rival, people seem to do amazing things.

      I would assume they would just use the cars they started designing. The FIA or FOM have no copyright on the cars. I assume.

    2. I would say to save money FOTA would leave the cars as they are this season, but allow more testing so the teams can become closer for next season. If they could get some of the new teams waiting in the wings to join then they could(maybe) design their cars to 2009 regs.

      from 2011 then the FOTA series may decide to redesign the cars to suit a better series with better tracks and better drivers than the F1 series.

  42. Much as I think this showdown had to happen, for the good of the fans and the sport, it is terrible news for Williams isn’t it?

    1. Williams made their bed….

      1. I believe Williams had no choice but to apply to the F1 championship.

        1. Williams may have to sit out the 2010 season of the FOTA series, but if Max’s F1 does manage to provide the teams with a profit then I see no reason why Williams couldn’t sign up to compete in BOTH series.

          Alternatively, I could still see Williams jumping ship and going with FOTA – there’s nothing that say they have to field a competitive team in F1 next year…

    2. Nothing stopping Williams from running in both series.

  43. This is how I see it…

    1) The tracks can’t afford to run two races, will want to go with the breakaway series, but will need to get out of their contracts with Bernie
    2) Until they can get out of their contracts, the tracks will not commit to races with the rival series.
    3) There is no rival F1 series until there is a calendar.
    4) The sponsors will not want to spend any money until they are sure there is a calendar and so a series.

    So we will have a stalemate. Meanwhile, the motorsport authorities will be putting pressure on Max to resign. This means both sides will be groveling to each other to reconsider.

    The most likely scenario is that someone caves in.

    The second most likely, considering the stalemate outlined above, would be no series at all. Most of the teams wouldn’t mind this, considering the recession. They would all like a year off to save money and come back stronger next year.

    Even if the rival series can get the tracks together, the FIA will be moving to get rid of Mosley. Maybe then the teams would be invited back into the fold, on their terms. Because it would be embarrassing to run a series where the second best team is Force India. This is the third most likely situation.

    A distant, distant fourth option is the two series, but I see one of the above happening first.

    1. Maurice Henry
      19th June 2009, 2:22


      Silverstone is out of contract after this year. They’ve got Moto GP coming in 2010. Hockenheim is out of contract after 2010 and Nurburgring cannot afford the franchise fee on its own so they might drop off the calendar. France is off the calendar at the moment, but Paul Ricard is still owned by a Bernie company, I think. Spain Valencia/Jerez/Barcelona. Portugal (Portimao). Surfer’s Paradise has got A1 GP from this upcoming season but they could be interested. Montreal, Indy, Suzaka or Fuji. Imola, Brno.

      The thing is Damian, the contracts are already drawn up and I seriously doubt they exclude other events from the circuit (pesky EU laws on competition as well as goods services and trade). The promoters can sign deals with other series as they see fit. I think they are all up for grabs as they can see more of a share of the real profits from the races. The only ones that won’t are those owned by Bernie.

      Barcelona and Sahkir Bahrain have contracts until 2016. Istanbul Park, which Bernie paid US$180 million for, has a contract up to 2021. Hungaroring sign a five year extension in 2007. Singapore was set up by a long time frind of Bernie, Ong Beng Seng who covers 40% of the US$140 million cost of the race. Sadly Sau Paulo extended their contract in November 2008 up until 2014. Also no Monaco. Spa…no one knows who paid the US$50 million for the upgrade of the pit and paddock… probably Bernie. Donnington – I’ll be interested if Gillette wants to shoot his mouth off about having a 17 year contract right now.

      1. Surfers Paradise is a disgraceful excuse for a track (in my opionion that is)

        1. I quite like Surfer’s paradise. It would be nice to see F1 style cars racing through surfer’s chicanes like they do/did in indycar.
          HAs anyone driven surfer’s on a video game?
          I have with toca race driver games and it is not that easy. So it would be a challenge for the teams and drivers.
          Also i’d be interesting if Fota would like to try for BATHURST as a track?

          1. Bathurst would be awesome, but not very realistic. It’s kind of in the middle of nowhere, to far from a main capital city and an international airport to be practical I would expect.

      2. Actually there could be a Monaco race. It was mentioned in the coverage of this year’s race that Monaco is actually the 1 race on the calendat that doesn’t have a contract with FOM – it’s just always on the calendar!!

        And as has previously been mentioned, there is nothing Bernie can do to stop circuits signing up to host another series on a different weekend to F1 – at least not the circuits he doesn’t own – due to EU competition laws!!

        1. Besides the prince of Monaco says he doesn’t want an F1 race without Ferrari in it.

  44. F1 As we know & Love it will never survive without the 8 members of FOTA!Lets hope it becomes 9 or 10 to include the vital Frank Williams & USF1 with Matt Bishop,Let Bernard run his series as GP3 or something & let the Masters of the current grid make their breakaway series “Faster & as technically challenging as possible”
    BrettM had the first great Question where will they race?? Bernard has a load of stuff tied up lets hope the classic circuits will both remain & be re introduced!!Who’s gonna run it?? Mansell,Stewart,Hill,Branson,Jordan,Todt?? I’ll have a go!!
    Viva FOTA Maybe Max & Bernard should apply for their “Paddock Club” Passes soon!!

  45. We have to nuke the FIA from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure.

    1. Random Chimp
      19th June 2009, 9:00


  46. Max should resign now!!!
    19th June 2009, 1:34


    1. Prisoner Monkeys
      19th June 2009, 5:32

      Yes, because that’s worked in the past …


    2. yes!!!i completely agree with you. we must carry anti- max mosley banners,placards & we should also burn down effigies of max & bernie, all in a peaceful way of course.

    3. Why should should he resign, he’d need common sense to do that, and he hasn’t got enough of that in reserve.

    4. Can someone tell me how other than resigning or being shot,Can Max be removed?? If he is the pinacle of FIA with no bosses or anyone to put him to rites then how or why would he lose his job????

  47. I think I’m happy about this. Mosely/Bernie are an enormous drag on the sport.

    F1 won’t survive as we know it without the Ferrari, McLaren, Toyota, etc. It will instantly become the “B-League” to FOTA. This is especially true since the FOTA teams are going to be driving the best cars in the world (as they’ll be allowed to invest in technology liberally).

    In the short-run, the sport will face tremendous uncertaintly. However, in the long-run, I truly think the sport of racing will be better off for ridding itself of the cumbersome management/regulatory framework that burdens the sport so heavily today.

    1. Even with FOTA series the teams are going to have to save money. It is right that money being spent on F1 has gotten out of hand.

      But the main cause of this has been the constant tinkering with regulations by FIA.

      So it wouldn’t take a genius to realise that if the new series can be more stable then money will be saved easily.

      It would be wrong to ask the teams to spend spend spend just because Max would not be on their backs to do a budget cap.

      I have always agreed on saving money in F1 but just against the budget cap idea.

  48. Maybe the new FOTA series could tag team with Moto GP and race at the same venue on the same weekend. Imagine the crowds every race. Plus there could be two races in the USA :-)

    1. Good idea Dante’

      I have not watched MOTOGP, so i don’t know how much of a weekend they use and what support races they have to allow for the FOTA series to run.

      And as for support races like GP2 and whatever else. I wonder what will happen to them?

    2. Maybe the new FOTA series could tag team with Moto GP

      God, I hope that never happens. MotoGP is more than big enough to stand on its own two feet. Running with FOTA would have a negative diluted effect. MotoGP is a better entertainment spectacle than either of these series could ever be.

      1. did you see rossi’s move on lorenzo last week? that was unbeliveable.

        and three drivers with 106 pts. rossi, lorenzo and hayden.

        In F1 Button is light years away.

        btw they could use the same championship format for points too with moto GP.

        1. did you see rossi’s move on lorenzo last week? that was unbeliveable

          Here’s a reply you will never hear to that question in F1… “which one?”… LOL!!

          I’m presuming you mean the last corner overtake for the win. Did I ever see it, I was right there in the stadium section, I saw it with my own eyes. I went ballistic! Watch the team celebrate, that was me in the stadium…it was amazing, I get a rush of adrenalin every time I think about it.

          Who needs F1?

        2. oh, btw…

          and three drivers with 106 pts. rossi, lorenzo and hayden.

          Its three riders with 106pts… Rossi, Lorenzo & Stoner


          1. sorry stoner!! haha. yes, the battle for the lead changed hands quite a bit, the spanish gp for motogp was more exciting than all the spanish GP’s f1 has. right?? my apologies to Stoner of Ducati, foolish me.haha

        3. you mean:
          … three drivers with 106 pts. rossi, lorenzo and STONER.

          1. It was an awesome race for sure. Who said Barcelona always produces dull races ;)

  49. Max should resign now!!!
    19th June 2009, 1:40

    I’ve been thinking of something and FIA’s F1 is over no track will pay those sums of money to Bernie just to have Force India, Manor, Campos and Williams racing there and The track sponsors such as Santander won’t pay for this. It might last one or two more years but it’s over. MAx you have dug your own grave!!!!

  50. Looks like ‘F 1 fanatic’ gets to change its name.

  51. i think this will be the first time F1 won’t be the pinnacle of motorsport. now time for lots of confusion for fans and im just glad my favourite teams and drivers are together. as long as the cars are fast and in australia, i’m happy.

  52. I speculate that FOTA will announce Silverstone as part of their 2010 calendar this very GP weekend. That would really put one of Bernie.

    1. hehe yep, when button stands on the top spot of the podium. He will announce it in his press conference.

      And the beauty of it all the FIA and Bernie cannot do a thing

    2. yes very possible, but i would think they would want to have the whole foundation of a new series in place before any announce ment was made.
      Maybe if a member of FOTA were interviewed on the subject of Silverstone they may agree it would be on their calendar though.

      Let’s not forget thought that i’m sure FOTA would still prefer to be in F1 if MAX resigned.

  53. I speculate that FOTA will announce Silverstone as part of their 2010 schedule this very GP weekend. That would really put one over Bernie.

    1. Sorry for the multi-post.

  54. StrFerrari4Ever
    19th June 2009, 1:56

    This day was always going to come it was just a question of when today is that day and I have to say R.I.P F1 but Max & Bernie have been making this crazy formula and it’s exploded.I’m right behind FOTA and i feel that they will be succesful yes there will be a few bumps to get through but as soon as they manage them we will see pure racing.The best drivers , best cars , best designers no interference from Max The Lord is GOOD :D

    1. I wonder if it will come to pass that people will be saying “WHERE WERE YOU ON THE DAY THAT F1 WAS SPLIT”?

  55. Already said it, but it won’t happen. Forget about F1 sponsorship loss. What about FOTA sponsorship gain? How are they going to get track, series and team sponsorship? Who exactly is the broadcaster of these races in each country? Who’s actually filming the races? I know who films F1, and we all know who broadcasts it in our respective countries, and so do sponsors.

    I think that all of this is smokescreen for what’s really going on. Conversations with CVC. Remember them? They own F1. They can fire Bernie, and they surely could arrange to have Max dealt with if they wished. Let’s wait while Max backs down a bit. I’m sure this deadline will be stretched “in the interests of both parties and the sport as a whole”.

    1. With the end of the 14 year deal from 1995 with the FIA, could Bernie and FOA be about to leave Max in the cold and jump on board with FOTA??

      Is this legally possible does anyone know?

      1. I hope FOTA is smart enough to realize that Bernie is part of the problem and not part of the solution. There are other companies that can produce film or video the races and show them thru satellite. They dont need FOM or CVC or anyone associated with Bernie or Max or any other entity of the FIA>

      2. Fota would have the same desire to continue with Bernie, as they would have to catch the black plague

    2. Maurice Henry
      19th June 2009, 2:33

      The sponsors are paying the teams. The sponsorship of circuits will be up for a change because companies like Dutch bank ING are pulling out at the end of 2009.

      Think positively. The circuits pay a modest franchise fee for a spot on the calendar. Bear in mind that Monza pays the smallest FOM fee of just US$3 million per year. Montreal’s deal was blown out because Bernie wanted a bank/government guarantee of US$143 million over 5 years. The average fee is US$40 million!

      FOTA can make this work by not screwing over the fans, promoters, sponsors and each other.

      Mercedes and Audi seem to have made DTM work over the last few years with the ITR so it can be donw. Last year was a cracking series.

    3. Nice Take Toby.

  56. The new serie has planned 15-17 races which include Algarve, Jerez, Magny-Cours, Monaco, Imola, Mugello, Hockenheim, Silverstone A1-Ring, Indianapolis, Montreal, Mexico City, Buenos Aires, Fuji, Sepang, Phillip Island (Australia), Losail (Qatar), Yas Marina (Abu Dhabi)and Welkom (Etelä-Afrikka).

    So here we go new series and no Max and no Bernie….woohoo.

    1. I really hope that’s not right.

      No Suzuka, Spa, Monza, Nurburgring, and no Albert Park/Adelaide.

      1. Maurice Henry
        19th June 2009, 2:46


        They may gravitate over to the new series or be forced into doing so in the face financial oblivion by the potential lack of interest in FIA F1.

        I still think this is a very bold move to outflank Max and Bernie and force one or both of them out and get concessions on governance and money. They’re out to prove a point. People are into F1 for drivers, teams, close racing, techy stuff, history and passion not crusty old men in suits at the FIA. Bring in a bunch of nobodies in 2010 and we will see the FIA regulating GP2+. Consequently people will turn off.

        Don’t forget that this will work both ways. If they do split the current FIA F1 circuits will find it hard to get a new deal with major sponsors as they will not have the same quality ‘show’ to put on for the TV companies. What will TV companies do? Remember the 2004 US GP. No one wanted the broadcast rights within the US so FOM TV provided the feed with onboard cameras etc, etc. TV may be turned on to FOTA by a more sensible pricing of the product but it must remain free to air. This Unfortunately means ITV, Channel 4 or Five in the UK. I can’t see BBC having the room to fit it into their already overcrowded sports schedule.

    2. I know you’ve got some F1 Paddock connections, so if this is a real list it’s very good. I’d also like to see Spa, Suzuka and some others on there. But if this is the start of a schedule for a breakaway series, it’s very good. Not only is there expansion into places like the Middle East, but races in Britain and elsewhere are protected.

      Lastly, but not least, it means a return for World Championship racing to right here in the USA, baby!!!! Even if it is at Indy, just the thought of the best racing in the world on my home soil makes me jump for joy!!

    3. Where did you get this info snoopy???

  57. Sorry…did write some country names in finnish…

    Etela-Afrikka aka South_Africa

  58. Where do I get my tickets about time!

  59. Max should resign now!!!
    19th June 2009, 2:13

    If Murray Walker would commentate I’d be in heaven!!!

    1. hahaha omg that would be so sweeeeet!

    2. It would be nice to get Murray’s view on this subject.

  60. It’s about time! I am glad to see FOTA standing up to tyranny and injustice. Bring on the new series!

  61. Alonso Ferrari
    19th June 2009, 2:19

    Woooo hooooo NO more bernie and max da whippy mosley!

    FOTA good luck! i’ll be watching!

  62. Remembering what a split like this did to IndyCar makes me want to cry :(

    1. Differnce is that there really isn’t one race that makes the series like Indy did. Also it was more of a 50/50 split, this is more like 80/20 split.

      1. Yeah exactly. Plus IndyCar was focused pretty much on the U.S. and Canada as one market, where FOTA would have a worldwide audience.

        A FOTA-run series would pretty much be the current F1, but with a different name and much more friendly to the circuits and fans :)

    2. I would hope that FOTA will look to the INDYCAR split and not make the same mistakes

    3. Me too…

      The big teams went to CART (Penske, Ganassi & Newman/Haas), the historical context (Indy speedway) went to the IRL. Roger Penske, when he decided to switch from CART to IRL said that he had to get back to Indy (the 500). That was the moment reunification North America became possible.

      The historical context will stay with the FIA sanctioned Formula 1 World Championship. Kids in America grow up wanting to win the Indy 500 (like Foyt or Unser), not the CART championship. Some also grow up here wanting to win the F1 World Driver’s Championship (like Andretti or Villenuve) not the FOTA whatever championship.

      I really hope that this nonsense is solved without a FOTA split. It will just lead to few years of crappy racing.

      I was a devoted CART fan, but was overjoyed when they shutdown and joined the IRL. FOTA fans beware.

  63. I’m not writing off a last second deal being made. I’m all for FOTA in its own breakaway series, but it’s a real uncertainty, taking into account all the posts been made so far.

    Well done, Max, you absolute pillock.

    1. Couldn’t agree more Loki

      Especially the bit about the absolute pillock lol

  64. Curiously, the FOTA statement DOES NOT state that the teams are withdrawing their entries ..

  65. Maurice Henry
    19th June 2009, 2:49

    Just a thought. What about DTM running as a support race at a few of the FOTA GPs?

    1. Nice idea if it’s feasible, but maybe DTM would want to be the main event?

  66. If the FIA can get rid of CVC and Bernie I predict they will prevail and FOTA will die. CVCs investment just crashed. MAX is not the FIA and he has limited tenure like the rest of us so try getting over the ad hominem to see it is either the FIA or a bunch of anti trust inspired teams and manufacturers.

    The sponsorship money won’t be there for FOTA at anywhere near F1 levels and they won’t get the venue contributions as national governments can’t duplicate and regional govts can’t afford it. FOM has the revenues for both venues and TV rights locked in for a few years and FOTA won’t get anywhere near the money needed even after deducting CVCs debilitating current share. If you want to watch races at MotoGP tracks go right ahead, you might get Silverstone but there might not be much more in formula one suitable racing venues that can pull both crowds and revenues.

    FOTA will have trouble funding Americas, mid east, Asia and Australia logistics costs with zip in subsidies coming from host nations and a depleted amount from TV.

    The F1fanatic majority will get what they voted for and when it turns pear shaped you can even keep blaming Max. Victory all around except for racing competition and a sustainable and more global sport.

    1. you’re looking at it wrong.

      bernie still has guaranteed revenue from many sources for many years thanks to the multi year contracts.

      it’s a winfall since the teams leaving are the teams in the concord agreement who are owed money and make money from points in the series.

      every new team coming in wont get that same deal – so bernie/fia/cvc potentially are set to profit from it.

      1. If the folks who signed the multi-year contracts with Bernie were smart, they’d have clauses in there that discussed contingencies around Ferrari and others leaving the sport. Depending on which jurisdiction will apply, this can be seen as a material change that needs a contract renegotiation.

        Of course, they may not have been smart. But litigation may be an option too, especially if the new F1 really does not draw enough interest from fan.

        I understand an Italian TV broadcaster has already stated they would revisit the contract if Ferrari left.

        Will be interesting to see how this plays out, assuming this is not a bluff.

    2. Yeah the national governments aren’t going to be giving out those contributions…..because the new series isn’t going to charge them FOM prices to begin with!!! And with no disrespect to anyone, you aren’t going to see nations with tremendous historical and commercial importance to the sport left out in favor of nations where the national government just pays to get a place on the schedule.

      You see, circuits may actually make a profit…..yes, a profit!!!….from hosting such races. The venues will be lining up to be a part of it, if they haven’t already.

      1. Absolutely, Gman.

        FOTA can now make it’s own media rights deal, where THEY can actually make some money from TV. Here in America, cable channels have grabbed 90% of Nascar, IRL, and ARCA –I’m thinking maybe ABC might want a world-class sporting event back in it’s repertoire. After all, Olympics come so seldom.

        Therefore, they(FOTA) can offer the tracks a better deal then ever they got from Bernie. And there are enough tracks Bernie has offended/alienated over the years, and those who couldn’t/wouldn’t pay Bernie’s huge fees, to keep FOTA going a long time. And I still wanna see a race at Sears Point, call me old-fashioned.

    3. So m0tion, what is your solution?

      1. scunnyman. FOTA should agree to funding caps that work for any serious entry team (incl F3/GP2/A1 teams stepping up by a half on funding). The money pool used to guide policy should be a 10 year average and not what you pull out at the top of a bubble. FOM and CVC must go and a representative FIA constituted body keep control. No Max is OK with me if they can find someone tough enough and who won’t surrender to manufacturer rules extortion like that pulled off by Ferrari. I used to think highly of Ferrari and now think nothing of them. For those that don/t think small countries should have any say – I don’t agree. Small countries should have every opportunity of entry and running races with hurdles that are jumpable. FOTA won’t get the money, they probably won’t get 30% of the F1 last year revenue.

        1. Have you thought about the logistical and financial costs associated with winding down an operation? Suddenly moving from 200million to 40million is probably going to cost the teams more financially. They don’t even have enough time to do an audit of what direction to follow with a cap as they have infrastructures that will be dispensed with and this will affect their profit/loss balance.
          Its far easier for a new team to meet with the budget cap than an existing team.

  67. On behalf of a true fan, I am ecstatic that the FOTA is not giving in.

    I do not want to see F1 divided, but I wish more not to see F1 run exclusively by the FIA with no check or balances to their rule.

    I will be watching the FOTA championship next year. Not F1.

  68. Three words,

    frustration of contract.

  69. Keith,
    Could you give us a little information on the legality of all the teams leaving F1 next year? I had been under the impression that some teams (ferrari?, red bull?) teams were under contract for next season.

    If so, you have to believe that F1 will exercise all its legal options stop them from leaving. Any thoughts?

    Abe Froman
    Sausage King of Chicago

    1. you raise a good point. bernie “i’ll sue their asses off” ecclestone is not going down quietly.

      by the way, ferris bueller’s day off is one of my very favorite movies!

  70. Now the IRL-ICS champion will have as much of a claim of being a world champion as the other two leagues. Where is the credibility?

    1. still more respectable than boxing’s titles

  71. 25 tv station from different countries has been intresting about TV rights of new serie allready. Point is that Bernie has contracts but only F1 rights. New series will ahve new name so Bernie can not stop Tvs show other series. So much about Bernie stopping FOTA.

    About licences. FIA control only driver licenses of FIA races…so if FOTA make other series what dont belongs to FIA, FIA can not stop drivers drive there. Autosport organizatio in every country control only races under FIA so they can not stop races either.

    So all problems solved lol.

    They have race tracks, TVs,sure a lot of fans . biggest teams and best cars and drivers….nothing really can not stop them.

    Bernie was stupid enough to say that some teams will leave FOTA. well that just made FOTA stronger. Max and Bernie has not learned that they should not stir pot when its spoiling allready. They did burn themselves and can not still understand how it happened.

  72. Its a shame that 60 years of history have to be buried.

    But we wont have any more MAX & BERNIE who only understand there glory not the spectator

    1. I beg to differ.

      The history, the heart of the sport, lies in the teams, the drivers, the tracks themselves not in the FIA.

      Whatever they may decide to call the new series, THAT is where the history will be, because that is where the premier teams and drivers will be.

      And they will have the respect to stage races at the historical tracks, like Silverstone.

      History buried ?

      I think not.

  73. i think the teams running the series is a big problem.

    sure none of them likes the FIA but that’s because the FIA set the rules, no one likes the rules maker.

    think about it, let’s just pretend this year there was no FIA and the whole diffuser row was in play, do you really think with the teams having their own vote on the rules would have let brawn, toyota and williams race?

    or would the losing majority rule in their own favor?

    sure everyone hates the fia – but you need someone to be the bad guy to try and keep it unbias and fair.

    yes the fia has been perceived as bias at times, but it’s nothing to what a majority vote of losing teams would be.

    who’d really want falvio on a rule making board…

    IMO having the team govern the sport will screw everything up.

    1. There called arbitrators. North American sports us them to settle contract disputes. The FIA also has no monopoly on them either. the fia has a monopoly of very few things.

      and besides. differences may become easier to settle when everyone is sharing series profits and not bitching over prize money.

    2. It wouldn’t have been a problem in the first place had the rules been clearly set, which is what FOTA proposes.

  74. I wonder what will happen over TV rights and what about new circuits like Abu Dhabi where billions of dollars are being spent to showcase F1. How upset would you be to discover that all that investment may be for 1 race only. Perhaps even the last ever F1 race in history. I doubt that the new series will even be allowed to call itself F1 because Bernie owns the name. What will they call the new series? One thing is certain, those good ole boys Max and Bernie have mis-judged the mood of the teams this time. Is Ron Dennis lurking somewhere in the background already negotiating possible venues for next season? The plot thickens!!

    1. I don’t mean any disrespect to any venue by saying this, but it just gose to show you that any county can buy a venue, but they can’t by things like history, tradition, and a great national fanbase…

      1. Not being picky Gman m8 but why do you always type gose instead of goes?

  75. Outstanding news ! The hell with the FIA. And I disagree that this was the worst possible outcome and will be bad for F1. This will be very good for F1. There will be only one championship, FOTA’s, and that’s that. And I don’t sympathize w/ Williams. They have not been anywhere near the top for over a decade. They are irrelevant.

    1. So history and true racing spirit add up to nothing now? Ferrari were ”nowhere” for 21 years when they weren’t champions? Williams was forced to take Bernie’s money because it lost an important sponsors in Baugur group after the financial breakdown of Iceland. Williams were forced out of FOTA, they didn’t left of their own free will.

  76. This is fantastic news. good on them for having a backbone. To hell with bernie and max, they have been a cancer to the sport. F1 is about the manufacturers, cars and drivers all competing at the highest level. I wanna see the real teams.

    People are bored of Brawns dominance… think of the FIA championship next year! Williams against the small fry! think they wanted to be big fish in a small pond! lol

    1. Brawn,

      right on !

  77. The new serie has planned 15-17 races which include Algarve, Jerez, Magny-Cours, Monaco, Imola, Mugello, Hockenheim, Silverstone A1-Ring, Indianapolis, Montreal, Mexico City, Buenos Aires, Fuji, Sepang, Phillip Island (Australia), Losail (Qatar), Yas Marina (Abu Dhabi)and Welkom (Etelä-Afrikka).

    Looks like halfthe tracks will be absolutely fantastic! Algarve, Jerez, Monaco, Imola, Mugello, Silverstone, Montreal, Mexico City (not Puebla, I’m hoping), Buenos Aires and Kyalami (Assuming that’s the track in Welkom) should all provide fantastic racing. I’d really rather see the American round held at Laguna Seca or Watkins Glen but I’m not sure if either are up to whatever safety spec the FOTA series will be running. I think Fuji would be a mistake seeing as how it’s always provided boring race weekends compared to the weekends at Suzuka. Not sure if there are any real alternatives to Magny-ours or Hock/Nur in the next few years. Euro Speedway isn’t a horrible track as far as infield tracks go (Sooo much better than Indy) but the FOTA series will be great if/when Spa, Interlagos, Monza and hopefully Melbourne come on board. Looking forward to either likely result: the end of Bernie, Max or a completely new and actually exciting series (Based on racing, not drama. What an alien thought!).

    1. Kyalami (Assuming that’s the track in Welkom)

      No, the track in Welkom is Pakhisa which has hosted MotoGP in the past. Kyalami is in Midrand in Gauteng. Kyalami recently hosted the SBK championship, and the A1GP.

      But Kyalami will not be able to host F1 or the breakaway series because the track facilities are not up to scratch…

      1. I agree about Watkins Glen (historic, great layout, close to my home) or Laguna Seca (same but on the other side of the country from me) as an American venue. But if Indy gets it, still a good deal, much better than no race at all as we currently have :)

        1. I thought you had said in the past that Watkins Glen was a non starter to host a race?

  78. MAX, put that in your gimp mask and smoke it!

    To those citing the IRL/Champ Car split, it’s not the same circumstances.

    Bernie and Max have strangled F1 to an inch of it’s life. Bernie, because he owes CVC and Max because he’s a megalomaniac who thinks his opinions are the only ones that matter.

    I was feeling down about the situation this week because I thought FOTA were going to crumble due to doubt Max had worked into enough FOTA members and that he would get his way. If something didn’t change now then I know I would be spending months again next year following diffuser debacles the FIA didn’t deal with properly, medal systems nobody wanted, shocking inconsistent steward decisions (I will never forget the FIA punishing Bourdais for RACING with Massa after legitimately coming out of the pits in front, it really did beggar belief).
    Next year when a car crosses the line in first place I’ll not have to wonder whether, after the champagne has settled, the FIA will decide to change the result. It sounds great to me just writing this. There is now solid hope for the future.

    Although before I get carried away at the though of a complete overhall, I still think there is a chance of a compromise if something drastic happens with Bernie or Max.

    m0tion – I’ve thought about a FOTA breakaway a lot over the last few months and disagree with every one of your paragraphs. However it’s 3:33, I have to be up in the morning and I don’t think I could change your mind anyway so we can both just agree that we disagree and leave it at that.

    todd – FOTA have said they will get someone else to run it. The FIA is the bad guy but they are also crap at their designated responsibility. Any other big sports governing body would have addressed the diffuser problem before it was a problem, teams were asking for clarity in Jan. Anything would be better than Max’s incompetent governance.

    I would hope the GPDA get a formal say in the new series too. They are another party that have been pushed around by the FIA with no hope of recourse.

    1. There is one thing i wish of the FOTA series, please do not shorten races. It is the one thing i am worried about. Races are too short as it is.

  79. Eduardo Gigante
    19th June 2009, 4:21

    Surveying this wreckage, one wonders how Mosley survived for so long in this business. He is a completly aloof from reality and should resign. He can even do this gracefully, admit that the sex scandals and the tragic death of his son have caused him to re-evaluate his priorities etc. (which I suspect is the case).

    This is awful. The legacy of the sport is forever tarnished, even if one day Formula One returns with all the teams. IRL was never the same, even after the return in early 2000. People only watch it because of the Indianapolis 500.

    Quick question; Will there still be a British GP tomorrow? It may be stupid to ask, but at this point I believe anything is possible.

  80. Well that sucks. No more melb GP?

  81. Hopefully someone will have Max Mosley Voodoo dolls for sale at Silverstone…(I was going to say something intelligent, but I’m just so anoyed right now)

  82. To quote Winnie Churchill:
    “Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.”

    I am of the belief that the fight has just entered round 2. Does anyone think that FOM will watch their loan collateral walk away and form a competing series? CVC will sidetrack El Supremo for someone who can cut a deal; I also believe they will exert political influence in the right places and force the removal of Mosley. Those are the two ultimate goals of FOTA.

    They have a few more weeks to achieve the deal they want and stay within the existing FIA structure. But once FOTA start signing new tracks, sponsors, and TV broadcast rights it may be too late.

    What a god awful interesting time this will be!

  83. what’s to stop current F1 circuits also host the new series(GP1 I suppose)?

    1. Does anyone know for sure, who own the rights to the names used in F1

      such as:-

      FORMULA 1

      1. I belive FOM bought the rights for first 3 on your list for a 100 years and grand prix is owned by FIA.

      2. my understanding of the facts:

        the term “formula one” is owned by the FIA, which has been leased to FOM/CVC for a paltry $250M for 99 years.

        the term “grand prix” is, of course, french for “big prize”. grand prix motor races pre-date F1 by at least 40 years, and have included air races as well. the term may be much older than the automobile. general motors does not pay anyone to name their car “pontiac grand prix”, nor does IRL pay to hold the “grand prix of sonoma”.

        the official names of F1 races (“2009 Formula 1 Santander British Grand Prix”) are registered trademarks of FOM. whether or not someone else can call their race “the XXX British Grand Prix” is unclear, and sure to be contested by bernie.

        1. while i’m at it, other naming abominations include:
          chevrolet monte carlo
          dodge daytona
          pontiac le mans, which would evolve into the equally sinful pontiac gto

        2. I know Bernie said that if they make the split they wouldn’t be allowed to call itself F1 or World Championship or use the term Grand Prix – it probably has to do with the fact that national automotive alliances are the ones who are giving permissions to use the term ”Grand Prix of *countryname*”

  84. So what happens with the remainder of 09? Does everyone just half ass it through the rest of this season? Stop development and so forth and focus on 2010? What will this weekends race be like? Wouldn’t it be cool if all 16 cars from these teams ran the first lap and the pitted for the remainder of the race… That’d send a message.

    1. You may see the teams not put too much effort into upgrades and the like but the drivers are racers at heart (well most of them) and will not half ass anything.

    2. No, it wouldn’t be cool at all. Doesn’t matter which way you look at it. I hope everyone concerned just continues this season like before.

      It must be pretty bad for employees at the Works shops, there’s so much uncertainty around their future.

    3. Max should resign now!!!
      19th June 2009, 7:51

      That would be so cool!!! I would leave Brawn GP and Red Bull to race for the championship though so at least you would have 8 cars (counting Force India and Williams ), but yeah it would be amazing seeing all those cars just poing back to the pits after one lap.

      1. The way that Brawn are going, I don’t think too many of the teams were seriously going to invest too much more time and money into ’09 anyway!

  85. Massive kudos to FOTA, get the sport out of the grasping, greedy, meddling hands of the FIA and CVC.

    I hope they stay united and focused, bury the past, look to the future and rebuild the sport from the ground up, the fans are behind you, succeed and prosper.

  86. Prisoner Monkeys
    19th June 2009, 5:35

    This is not the victory you all claim it to be. FOTA are equally culpable in bringing the sport to an end as the FIA are. CART and IRL are a shining example of what not to do, and Formula One went ahead and did it anyway.

    You are celebrating when you should be weeping. I know I am.

    1. You’ve got a point, but there are some major differences between this and the IRL/CART split.

      For one, if this plays out as it appears, we’ll have almost all the historic and popular names oboard- the names and drivers that fans pay to see. We’d also have a diverse international calendar with races in both new and traditional markets. the FIA-administered F1 would be left with next to nothing, except races in the Middle East and Spain….

      The IndyCar fiasco dealt with a sport that was centered on the U.S. and Canada, and one that had one main event (the Indy 500) that was central to it’s planning. The FOTA deal is on a much bigger scale, and I would bet that it’s going to be far more successful if it indeed did go ahead.

      1. One thing i’d like to know is the drivers need a superlicence to drive in F1. Will this still be needed for any other series FOTA come along with, and if so will the FIA be willing to give them out to the drivers? Especially if the new series is not overseen by FIA.

        Like it ever would be lol

        1. Maurice Henry
          19th June 2009, 10:15

          If it’s not an FIA sanctioned series I wouldn’t have thought they have any power to stop someone racing in FOTA F1. As for the standard of driver, they will still compete in other series to upgrade their FIA licence as they come through the international ranks.

          In reality they have no binding hold over anything.

    2. I agree with you PM, this is really bad – sure, FOMA racing series looks good on paper now but I have a feeling we will get a new Max (Luca di Montezemolo maybe) and maybe the teams will invite Bernie over to help them secure the tv deals.
      The real question is how the teams will cope with the increased spending they will have to do (paying for their own fees to flight cars and personnel; upgraded development cost).

      I still hope we will see a 5 to 12 agreement not to go on with this. Personally, while there are some ideas that are sound by the FOTA, there are some idealistic which I doubt will work out good. Sure, you can declare you will have a transparent governance but don’t forget the team calling the shots around here are Ferrari – the team who took 100 million more then anybody else and had an unfair advantage in the form of the technical veto for the last 10 years (and they won 7 constructor championships since then). When it comes down to competing I don’t see all the teams won’t resort to low shots.

      Also, I think even more then most of the fans here gloating are the lawyers – the legal battles that are about to start will give them a fortune in lawyer fees…

      The sponsors are not as enthusiastic about the new series too I bet – they are paying and they want to have a certain assurances. So far, the new series has 8 teams, a press release and a promise of a change – not really attractive for a new sponsor to come aboard for sure.

      There is very little time to set up a series left and in current economic climate I don’t know will the teams get support from their upper management should the cost climb up instead of down…

  87. So what happens with the remainder of 09? Does everyone just half ass it through the rest of this season?

    No, they race harder than ever! What better way to promote the new series by showcasing FOTA teams at Bernie and Max’s expense??? Market market, market. What can Bernie and Max do, toss them out now?

    And how cool would it be if the recently snubbed teams like Prodrive, Lola, and N Technology signed up with the rebels? That would be 11 teams and 22 real cars.

    1. If these teams are smart, they’ll let Williams and Force India back in and snag USF1 away from the FIA. That would fill up the grid quite nicely, and leave Bernie/Max grasping for air……

      1. They only suspended Williams and ForceIndia. The actions of these two teams emboldened Mosley into taking his stupid decisions.

  88. Maybe we can have a Canadian GP next year after all!

  89. And with most teams being of European origin, we’re more likely to see “local” races to minimize transport costs: Bring on the classic tracks!

  90. I reckon Bernie will follow FOTA to be honest. He bought the commercial rights to F1, doesn’t mean he can’t buy the rights with FOTA (at FOTAs rates of course).

    But to be honest, am I the only one here who thinks this is a REALLY BAD THING? Do you really think FOTA are going to be “amazing” at governing? You don’t think petty differences between teams is going to manifest itself in the running of the championship?

    FOTA are no heroes. They’re one of the sides in a war that nobody who has any sense should want, of which both are comitting stupid acts.

    1. I’m with you in this one – there are no winners in this struggle and especially not the fans…

  91. F1 started in Silverstone and now 60 years later it ends ar Silverstone,

    A tip of advise for the FOTA : the first race in the new class perhaps at Silverstone ?

    Another two circuits who i liked to see : Imola and Zandvoort.

    1. Ironic, but perhaps true…

      As for the first race being at Silverstone, I have not been to Britian in person, but perhaps it may be too cold early in the season to host the first race?

      But in any event, here’s hoping it is included on the calendar of any new series that emerges…and the British fans get to enjoy a home GP for many, MANY more years!

      1. Hey Gman you’re right. The last time Silverstone was used early in the season (april i believe) it was disaster.


        Races have to be held at the right time the year to allow for local weather conditions.

        So my vote for season opener is PHOENIX.

        Anyone guess why???

        Not you Gman or persempre you already know lol

        1. You are from Phoenix? Either that or the fact that was the hottest F1 race EVER with half the grid dehydrating…

          1. well i now live in Phoenix. Originally from uk.

  92. So much to think about with this, I don’t know where to start. I really hoped things would not come to this, and perhaps it still may be a ploy to get Bernie/Max eithger out of the sport, or at least on more reasonable terms. But if it happens, it could be a very good deal….

    Forgive me for being selfish, but my first thought gose to USF1. If the FOTA series is the real deal, I hope like hell they they get out of the FIA deal and join FOTA right now. If they get stuck with the FIA in the event of a breakup, the team will be in a very poor position to attract anything. So here’s hoping USF1 is racing with the current elite teams next year, either in the FOTA series or a reformed and reconciled F1.

    But if the new series dose go ahead, and USF1 (hopefully along with Williams and Force India) is a reality in it’s ranks, I’ll be behind it all the way.

    1. Now does anyone have any idea of the agreements taken between the new teams and the FIA?

  93. Had to be done!Now for the real series,Silverstone,Canada,US[INDIE],Argentina,brazil,adelaide,suzuka[the one toyota owns],macua,ahbu dabi,france,spain[they have about 5 f1 ok’d tracks],monaco,spa,austria,germany,italy[rome/monza]Thats 17 anyone think of more we could set up the series by ourselves help out FOTA.

  94. Also, about the venues….

    If this works out, it will be the best thing for racing circuits since…..I don’t know what!! The FOTA bunch won’t charge anything like what the FOM prices are, so you’ll see all kinds of tracks on various different continents lining up to be part of the spectacle. We will still see good expansion in the Middle East and Asia, but nations with real motor racing herritage and history, as well as real commercial value to companies involved in the sport, will not be left out!!

    Just think…under a new series, the well-earned right of the British fanbase to enjoy a British GP will NEVER be at risk the way it is now! Races can return to nations where fans will pack the stands- Canada, France, and right here in the United States!! We’ll see old classics with great fans- Argentina, Mexico, South Africa- hopefully return. And places like Austrailia and Germany won’t be under threat they way they are or have recently been.

    All in all, it could be a brave new world :)

    1. This new series needs a good coalition.



      If circuit owners can pay a small, by CVC standards, to host a race then maybe they can make a profit on ticket sales etc. So they’ll be on board
      If enough sponsorship can be found for the races and the series itself then the teams and manufacturers will be happy.

      If the teams were in racing to make money then they are deluded. Of course the knock on effect is to make car sales for the manufacturers. So if they can make money with the series they’ll be happy.

      I’m sure that if FOTA make a go of a new racing series with what they ask for Transparent Governance then it should work.
      The most important thing would be to get a governing body to oversee the series instead of the teams running it.

  95. People have questioned what are the chances of FOTA succeeding. I have no doubt that FOTA world series will eclipse f1 in an instant.
    This whole episode has been about money and power. Now lets look at this properly . F1 teams get only 50% of tv revenue approx $500 million divided amongst 10 teams. Bernie and CVC (which Bernie owns a huge share in keeps the other $500 million. On top of that tracks on average pay $40 million a race. Monaco is $0 and Monza pays bugger all. Over a year say we average on $35 million per track, that $575 million dollars a year just in track fee. In addition to this, another one of Bernie companies owns the track advertising and the paddock club. This is reportedly worth another $600 to $700 million. Then there is all the other bits and pieces, like f1 branding etc. All in all it is reported to be worth around $2.5 billion a year. The teams individually are lucky to see 50 million each.
    Starting a new series will be very simple. There are 100’s of tracks world wide that will host a race for 20million, thats $340 million just in tracks. Tv rights will be huge, not $1 billion as current but at least $500 million, in addition to that we have sponsors and paddock club fee which is worth another $500million. All in all we have a product worth, 1.5billion. All the teams own an even stake and they get 100 million each plus car sponsor ship. 500 million is set aside for running cost (which is huge when generally it is only 15% at most.)
    Sponsors will pay as much as they currently pay and tv networks will jump on the band wagon as quick as they did when the teams were racing under the f1 umbrella. The teams are the ones that make f1 not Bernie, max or CVC.
    The jewel in the crown for FOTA is Monoco. The prince of monoco said he would not host a race without the big teams. There is no contract with Bernie and if FOTA get monoco f1 is dead well and truly.

    1. Indeed, don’t forget Monaco has always been the only GP that can push Bernie around a bit- they are the only ones allowed to keep revenue from trackside adverts, and a local TV company broadcasts the race there each year.

      Here in the USA, the contract between SPEED/FOX and FOM is set to expire at the end of the current season, and no renewal has been signed that I know of. If the FOTA series gose ahead, here’s hoping the SPEED crew gets the broadcast rights :)

    2. http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=38215

      This is what f1 is losing. FOTA have the upper hand. FIA and Bernie must bend over to there demands

    3. I wish i’d read your post first before i did mine phil c.
      Yours is much better than mine.

  96. There are some headless chickens around here!

    This is just one of the last moves in one big game of chess. It certainly isn’t the end of the game though.

    Not least because if this IS the FOTA position / decision, then it’s not something you announce so late in the evening the day before a deadline, leaving wiggle room on the deadlein day itself.

    What they’ve clearly been angling for for some time now is to make Max’s position untennable. They don’t want to leave F1, they don’t want their own series : they want Max, and Max’s ways, gone.

    It’s all well and good having a new Concorde, but it’s not as though Max suddenly became a cunning old bugger when the 98 Concorde expired. He’s always been a cunning old bugger.

    The really interesting aspect, for me, is the relative silence of CVC / Bernie. CVC are sitting on a mountain fo debt which needs paying through TV rights. No Ferrari, no big money TV rights from F1. What kind of deal will Bernie have (already tried to) set up with FOTA?

    1. And that is what we all probably want too. but it won’t happen with Max around.

  97. Fantastic news and about time too! This sport has turned into a sham over the last few years, although i’m not sure about Brawn being on the list; i think they are a Bernie trojan entity who will derail things from the inside…maybe

    1. You really think that Ross Brawn would be that much of a push-over??

      I couldn’t disagree more.

  98. Yes Yes Yes!! i was waiting for either Max to step down or for the FOTA teams to form their own series. i think the FOTA series will be more successful than the M&B’s version. Bring back old traditional tracks like Hockenheim, Silverstone, Magny Cours, even A1, if possible, and M&B’s F1 is dead meat!! who likes to watch second grade toy cars running around sandy deserts and empty grandstands??

  99. I read a lot of the comments, and share a lot of the thoughts, but i still do believe that the whole thing is about the teams wanting more money.
    now max will put in the rest of the teams on hold, and if any of the Fota teams change their minds they will have to buy in the smaller teams.

    however my main concern is that yesterday’s decision turns F1’s history and Heritage into well history. and it begs the question: WHAT”S THE POINT OF THE FOTA TEAMs CARRYING ON THIS SEASON they can throw in the towel because it wont make a difference….

    I’M pissed off at both FOTA and FIA for putting us the fans on the back burner while they bicker over a few millions… if anything both FIA and FOTA should have taken it to Bernie for asking for so much money and charging the fans so much to attend and watch the race.

  100. I can’t wait. This has needed to happen for a long time now, I don’t care what the pessimists say. The teams are the ones who provide everything, Max and Bernie (especially Max) deserve this.

  101. As I said elsewhere on this site this is the motoring equivalent of the old football First Division being replaced by the Premiership. Sure the name will change, but the sport will be the same, if not better without Bernie and Max.

  102. I think your questions for Saturday just got a lot more interesting.

    I hope this really does come to fruition. I don’t need a race to be branded F1 for it to be great. As was mentioned before, the Monoco GP is still the Monoco GP, the Indy 500 will always be the Indy 500.

    It’s time the teams get a larger percentage of the income to fund their futures in Grand Prix Racing. If there is one common complaint I see on this site and others I read, it has to be the absurdity of the governance of the sport. From outrageous fines, to inconsistent steward decisions, most will agree it’s gone on too long.

    If the current F1 lives on for a year or two, that’s good too, gives me another race to watch on a few more weekends.

    Enjoy your weekend Keith, it’s going to be full of excitement I’m sure.

  103. I’m staggered… literally in shock.

  104. This is exactly what Mosley wanted: Formula 1 without the manufactures.

  105. I’m surprised at the guys who say that most fans will continue to watch a Ferrari-less F1. I’m also surprised that anyone would think either side (F1 or FOTA) should be worrying about what die-hard F1 fans, the type who plan their year around getting to a couple of races and live the sport, are thinking. I think *I’m* the guy who F1 should be worried about – a guy who loves sports overall and watches as many F1 races as I can (on TV) because the only sporting events I have time to watch are the ones where I can see the best in the world performing. I watch F1 to watch Ferrari, mainly. My perception is that Ferrari are the best on the planet at what they do, year over year, and I will watch whichever series they’re involved in.

  106. Jelle van der Meer
    19th June 2009, 7:59

    Yes it is a shame that grown man all to protect F1 can’t get to an agreement with the only real people that are losing are the fans.

    I am however happy that the decision is made and I for sure will follow the FOTA teams to their new series.

    Because 1 thing annoyed me more than anything else about this row and that is the unlimited amount of power Max Mosley has within the FIA. 1 man alone is responsible for this row and that is Max Mosley.

    Very happy that is looks like that Max and Bernie will finally no longer decide what the fans get to see. Yes the have contribute to the sport in the past but the last 10 years they caused far more problems and bad publicity than any good they did.

  107. ComeBackMontoya
    19th June 2009, 8:17

    I must admit, I was hoping FOTA would do this because if they back down now and give into this years knee-jerk reactions from the FIA then FOTA as a group will lose their voice forever.

    Now that it’s been announced part of me feels a bit sick, that the sport I love and follow so closely could be no more, until I realised that a new series would basically be F1 without all of the things that wind me up about F1 (historically I would have also put Ferrari in that pigeon hole, but since Toad… oops, I mean Todt and his stopwatches have gone I don’t mind them so much, they seem slightly less arrogant these days. I guess not winning helps in that regard).

    Since the FIA and Bernie don’t care about the fans one bit, we all need to make our voices heard and stand with FOTA in showing Max & Bernie that enough is enough.

    I wonder if Williams can revoke their F1 application today???? I sure hope so because the FOTA series would be all the better with them in it……. if it happens.

    Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s all changed again before Sunday.

    1. I think that if Williams went with the FOTA (after being expelled by them) Bernie would sue the wheelchair under the sir Frank. I wonder wheter maybe Williams can enter the both championships as they are locked in contract untill 2012. Probably not as sir Frank in a recen interview didn’t really appreciate the way other team bosses delt with Williams.

      And yes, it isn’t over untill the fat lady sings – maybe there will be some new development – f1 sites are curiously quiet for a friday on a gp weekend, something big could be cooking…

    2. I wonder, as your name suggests, Would Montoya be tempted to join the FOTA series now there may be less politics involved.
      It wa the politics that mainly drove him out of F1.

      1. i suspect it’ll never happen. montoya’s only motivation was beating shoemaker. now that he’s retired, i don’t see any reason why he would come back.

  108. Prisoner Monkeys
    19th June 2009, 8:19

    Would someone mind telling me how this is any different to the GPWC going rogue with plans for a championship by 2004?

    1. Yes this time Ferrari are on board big time.

  109. oldhairytipco
    19th June 2009, 8:20

    I think this is the best news for years and look forward to welcoming the new ‘Premiership’ motor racing to Silverstone in 2010.
    Perhaps prices will go down and at the end of each season we could get to see a FOTA Premiership and FIA F1 race off with the top 3 teams from each competing. I’d enjoy that as well.

  110. max has decieded to watch f1 2010 alone may be with his family and offcourse his friend mr.bernie……
    bcoz i hope all f1 fans will start to watch the new fota series wich holds all our favourite team and drivers.

    1. I’m sure prisonermonkeys will be watching F1 too If we get a rival series at all.

      1. Prisoner Monkeys
        19th June 2009, 10:00

        Actually, I probably won’t watch at all. I don’t want to watch racing that exists purely because of politics.

  111. keith, the site must be getting hammered. oh well, i heard there’s no such thing as bad publicity.

  112. I stopped reading the comments about halfway through, but here’s my take.

    This whole situation has been stupid for a long time, and this was inevitable with the parties involved. However, I won’t believe FOTA is really serious until I see their cars crossing the start line in their first race of 2010.

    Its funny how you react when you hear news like this, I always thought I would watch F1 regardless. But, my feelings right now is that I won’t be watching either series. Formula 1 won’t be Formula 1 and FOTA will never be Formula 1. Much like Champ Car was a diluted IndyCar and the IRL will never be IndyCar… the result was a massive drop in the fanbase across the world, the same will happen here.

    I hope this does not come to pass. Fortunately there is time yet to save Formula 1.

    ps. Thank the lord for MotoGP

    1. Have a read of my post on page 2. Thats why FOTA if pushed will do it.

      If they dont do it now they will have the same issue in 3 years. It is all about power and money.

      I would not be suprised if Bernie sells the f1 name to the teams.

      1. I would not be suprised if Bernie sells the f1 name to the teams.

        Now there is a twist if I ever saw it.

        Bernie is looking to retire after all, what better way to do it. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is all his work, and he does sell them the rights to Formula 1 in years to come.

        1. I’m still trying to wrap my mind around all this but I can really see Bernie following the FOTA in this one…

        2. Well it will make Bernie look like the saviour of f1. The unfortunate thing is, i dont think the fans will benifit. A new series will make races so much affordable.

          Autosport have reported the FIA have responded they will leave the rules as they are.

          Well the teams have until COB today to lodge a proper submission. I just cant see it happening. The teams have done enough research to realise they are getting well and truely screwed.

  113. whoever keeps saying Bernie needs to negotiate tv deals and things don’t happen without the fia. stop.

    red bull has no history of turning sports into successes (note sarcasm). they only thing to worry about is lawsuits. you sort that out. it’ll be fine.

    as for ferrari as the new max. it’s different when you run a series and make a profit off of it. That is the profit generator so that is what’s important. These are business men remember. In the current system the points are the money. hence the squabling over little winglets ect.

    Money makes the world go round.

  114. schumi the greatest
    19th June 2009, 8:41

    1 bright thing to come of this complete shambles would be of f2 and the new series were on alternating weekends, that way i wouldnt have to endure any incredibly boring shopping trips with my mrs.

    I wonder if the FOTA are bluffing though, i mean many times the fia have held the teams to ransom until they get their own way maybe the teams are trying the same thing?? I cant blame them and the teams who are breaking away contain the best drivers the biggest teams and the best designers etc so it will come down to who what fans want to watch most. A bunch of gp2 drivers in basically gp2 and f3 teams or ferrari, mclaren, williams, hamilton, alonso, raikkonen!

    i know which 1 il be spending money on following and which 1 il just watch occasionally.

    The FIA and Bernie will argue that they have all the circuits, but they dont, they have the new circuits but what about silverstone, indy, magny cours, montreal, imola, the list goes on.

    FOTA have the advantage and the only thing im sad about is the history of f1 will no longer be there.

    F1 shoots itself in the foot, i follow football, rugby, cricket, none of them sports are ever embroiled in these ridiculous power struggles between the competitiors and the organisers.

    Well done SPANKY & BERNIE you have ruined F1

    1. I like the name spanky for max ….good one..

    2. The history of Formula One will NOT be gone. It’ll just have a new name.

  115. Mussolini's pet cat
    19th June 2009, 8:43

    At some point Ecclestone will have to pitch in and sort this out, he’s got too much riding on this unlike Mosley.

  116. I am obviously going to support the new series only.I can’t watch a bunch of jack asses driving around stupid tracks which only bernie likes.I won’t even know the names of the teams racing.Probably rosberg or nakajima might become f1 champs next year.

    Where ever the scarlet cars go i follow.Go FOTA!!

    1. By the way keith start the website for alternatechampionshipfantaic.co.uk…..

  117. I expected this to be the most commented on post on your site ever!

    1. Too true, Tommy!

      With the FIA more or less blaming FOTA and telling them to F off, I want to hear what Bernie has to say…

      1. FIA still not listening to the fans!!

        Having a go at FOTA won’t do anything, listen to the fans! Everyones going to go with the FOTA next year not this new F1!

      2. Yes Bernie has been very quiet of late hasn’t he?

        Very unlike him to keep his big mouth shut.

    2. scunnyman is really helping it become “the most commented” post. good on him. keep it going scunny.

      1. I don’t mean to mp4.

        But there is a lot to comment on.

        I have followed this sport as long as Keith has and i don’t want it to die, but if it has to have a name change then so be it.

        1. just joking. does FIA have a constitution? if so, is there an impeachment clause? can’t the idiot be impeached? or has he declared himself the absolute führer of FIA?

          1. Well, he is up for re-election this year…

  118. It’s the silence this morning that is so loud – I haven’t seen a comment on this from anybody so far – who know what will happen untill the end of the day.

    1. gabal – the FIA have already replied to the breakaway. Max is more or less told them to F off… and he’s blaming them too.

      1. I just saw it a few minutes ago… Then this is really happening :(


      2. As usual max does not take any blame.
        He will not step down any time soon.

        he need desposing.

        is there anybody out there with the B*lls to do it i wonder?

        1. “he need desposing.

          is there anybody out there with the B*lls to do it i wonder? ”

          Apparently not, Scunnyman

          I truly think Max has suffered a mental lapse, from the strain of this past year’s events. In many ways, I feel badly for him.

          Of course, that wouldn’t stop me from booting him squarely in the a*s*, given the opportunity.

  119. I’m really sad to hear this, – end of F1 – … but, nowadays teams are not allowed to do proper on-track racing, and all the credit goes to two individual greedy idiots in the end (Of course, Max and Bernie I refer). The new championship from FOTA next year may not have all the strength that F1 had gathered all these years, but I believe, it’ll have all the ingredients a fan would need (which is so good a trait that a sport should have, and which F1 is losing these days). So, I’ll support new championship next year and wish FOTA all the best for their success.

    With Max and Bernie, this is the best possible solution we can expect to have better racing :) one should agree that, because these two don’t really know what they do and what they are doing to the sport these days.

  120. HounslowBusGarage
    19th June 2009, 9:09

    So maybe the French reports of the meeting between Luca Di Montezemollo and Fernando Alonso at le Mans were not too wide of the mark (Ferrari to run Alonso in a third car in the event of a breakaway).
    I still think this is all a bit of posturing; this is FOTA’s response to Max’s release of documents earlier this week. But, Max does not have a history of backing down or being reasonable, it’s not in his nature or in his family’s genes.
    I think there is a long way to go on this and I’m sure that racing next year will not be in the form we currently envisage it.
    By the way, I have a friend who has been trying to speak to Bernie on a non-F1 matter for the passed week. He has been told that Mr E will not be available for the forseeable future . . .

    1. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm curiouser and curiouser.

  121. Around 1999 (?), well at the end of 1990’s, the teams have signed a decision to form a new racing series on their own in 2007.
    I had been waiting eagerly for many years, and in 2007 – nothing happend.

    I’m glad it finally happens.

    1. Prisoner Monkeys
      19th June 2009, 10:02

      2004, actually, and it was called the Grand Prix World Championship. It never came to fruition because it was never intended to. It was a political move by the teams.

      1. I felt it was that. Thanks.

  122. HounslowBusGarage
    19th June 2009, 9:13

    Just seen this in the Times

    The FIA responded this morning by insisting that they would not back down, leaving the argument in stalemate.

    “We are disappointed but not surprised by Fota’s inability to reach a compromise in the best interests of the sport,” the FIA’s statement said.

    “It is clear that elements within Fota have sought this outcome throughout the prolonged period of negotiation and have not engaged in the discussions in good faith.

    “The FIA cannot permit a financial arms race in the championship nor can the FIA allow Fota to dictate the rules of Formula One.

    “The deadline for unconditional entries to the 2010 FIA Formula World Championship will expire this evening.

    “The 2010 FIA Formula One World Championship entry list will be announced tomorrow.”

    Looks a bit like an ultimatum to me.

    1. I said the other day that Max had drawn a line in the sand. Now FOTA has gone past it.

      it is upto those in FIA and/or WMSC to sort this.

  123. Pedro Andrade
    19th June 2009, 9:16

    Well, let’s see if I manage to gather all my thoughts…

    When I first heard of the news I was a bit sad, but now I’m just anxious and waiting for the next move from all the parties invloved. Not sure if this is good or bad news, though it’s obviously bad news for:

    – CVC and Bernie: too greedy for their own sake, serves them right;
    – Mosley: too power hungry for his own sake as well, should’ve stepped down years ago, serves him right;
    – Williams and Force India: two of the biggest victims here, I don’t know how they’ll convince sponsors to give them money to compete against “historical” names like Superfund, Formtech or Litespeed (no disrespect meant to these companies, but… seriously?). I sure hope they can survive and later join in with the other teams;
    – Formula 1: Yeah…

    I’m still not sure about FOTA managing to create a series from the ground on such a limited time scale, while conducting their usual F1 business, not to mention the money involved.

    As for the IRL/Champ Car split comparisons, I’ll try to present an example of how things might go right (though it’s obviously a very different world to F1): in the early 2000’s there was a PC game called Championship Manager (CM), a football (soccer) strategy game in which you play the coach/manager of a football team. In 2004, the game developers split with the publisher. The publisher retained the well known name (CM), while the developers retained the know-how (game code and database), and started making a new game (Football Manager, FM). After inicial uncertainty, the fans ended up flocking to FM, because they knew there was where the actual game was at, and CM, run by Eidos and a new developer, was never the same again. Let’s see if this can happen with the new series and F1…

    1. yor example is pretty good. this has been done 100’s of times in video games.

  124. I think that this whole situation needs to be viewed from a bit more of an historical perspective. I have been an F1 fan since I was 12 in 1961 and attended my first of many Grand Prix at Watkins Glen in 1966, seeing Jimmy Clark give the Lotus-BRM H16 it’s only win. But even back then I was a relative newcomer to the sport; the “World Drivers’ Championship” had been established in 1950 (It did not become the “Formula One World Drivers’ Championship” until 1981) and Grand Prix racing had gone on for 40 years before it, and the FIA, existed. Given all this history, I think far too much is being made of the “F1” Brand; indeed the “Formula One World Constructors’ Championship” was also established in 1981 , it having been known as the “International Cup for Constructors” before that, and Alberto Ascari’s 2 World Driving Championships in 1952-3 were won in races run under Formula 2 regulations, not Formula One!
    If Mosley and the FIA do not compromise and FOTA goes ahead with it’s breakaway series this will only be another evolution in the 100 year history of Grand Prix racing. Remember that Max and Bernie as part of the Formula One Constructors Association came to power after a similar war with the FIA in 1980-82 and Max himself ousted a then considered tyrannical Jean-Marie Balestre from first FISA and then the FIA in 1991-93 (to quote Yogi Berra “IT’S DEJA VU ALL OVER AGAIN”). If Fota does break away, the history of Grand Prix racing will go with the teams and drivers that are the backbone of the sport and not with the sham F1 Championship that Max and the FIA will attempt to put on.

    1. An interesting insight Jagged – I was a toddler when FOCA-FISA war happend so I don’t know how it unfolded but what you say seems sound…

    2. I was very sad about the history side of it. This post has made me feel better about it Thank you :)

    3. Well said Jagged, a bit better than what i had said earlier. F1 history will continue with a new name.

  125. Formula One will become a glamourised F3.

    FOTA will have best teams, the best drivers, great tracks, they will listen to the fans.

    I know which one I will be a “fanatic” for next year

  126. max mosley must be really proud of this accomplishment. His father set out to split europe & now the son has split the greatest ever sport we’ve all known. he’s an insult to all the stalwarts of the sport. how could matters spiral out of hand so rapidly ? how is it that a bunch of educated,experienced people could not come to a compromise? how can one midget hold the entire sport at ransom? clearly something is wrong somewhere. clearly max mosley has no business talking about budget caps & cost cutting. it would rather be wise for him to cut down his own expenses by not visiting brothels. every next day. maybe he begins his mornings by getting spanked on his head, cuz he’s completely lost his senses. maybe its one of his many fetishes, getin’ spanked on his head. the man is such a loser. he’ll never mend his ways. the man thinks he’s more smarter & cleverer than luca,ron,flavio,whitmarsh,brawn,sam,frank & the others. i thought he would voluntarily step down after the tragic death of his son. but he was hell-bent upon sending formula one to the grave along with his son. This is the perfect example of dictatorship. he’s proved that he’s his old man’s son. he’s just like his old man. ppl are splitting cuz of one idiot? why can’t this idiot be impeached like Richard Nixon? i dunno what else he’s got in his garbage bin that he calls brains. but believe me , this mad man max is not going to stop with this.

    1. I think there can now be no respect for FIA. They have a tarnished reputation now all because of one man.

      I no simpathy for FIA, they should have stopped this situation long ago.

      1. max though FOTA didn’t have the ballz to take on him. once they did, they had to pay the price, in the form of a split. its fine. atleast to prove max wrong the next year’s FOTA gp must be held in the most transparent way as possible & max must be invited to the inaugural gp of FOTA. just to add salt to his own self inflicted injuries.

    2. Maybe Ron Dennis knew something about Max after all and that was why Max went after Mclaren and Dennis every chance they got.
      Maybe Ron saw Max for the meglamaniac he is and was trying to shut him down.
      I am no fan of Dennis and some of the Mclaren subtrefuge but perhaps he was ahead of his tiome on this, and somehow he must be setting at home now smiling aboout the way this has played out.

      1. I’m sure you are 100% correct martin.

  127. When I hear this, my initial reaction was excitement. I can’t help that, I guess I wanted it to happen lal along.

    So come on FOTA, put your hundres of millions of eurodollarpounds where your mouths are and build a world-class, top-tier open wheel championship that you and the fans can be proud of. Go back to the classic tracks on the fan’s doorsteps that we all miss, and F1 have let fall by the wayside. And allow some beautiful technical freedom that produces truly special and beautiful cars that can race wheel to wheel for an entire race distance, not just the first 3 laps.

    1. Thats what I was hoping for. Classic tracks :)

      1. FOTA ppl must not return to Valencia street

        1. Or Malaysia, China, Bahrain, Hungary, Catalunya, Fuji, or Abu Dhabi (probably)

          1. China ain’t bad. Bahrain is the worst though!

      2. Exactly, If they havent raced there before 1990 then Fota needs to stay away. Only use the old venues.

        1. I cannot agree Martin with your case of before 1990 for circuits. there are a couple of good tracks that could be used. as well as any pre 1990 races.

          Albert park
          istanbul park

          Most people would agree those are good circuits.

  128. Here is an interesting insight by Joe Saward:


    If Max leaves (and I really don’t see how he can stay in seat after allowing the FIA’s crown jewel to shatter) maybe we will have one racing series after all next year…

    1. I would have much prefer the governing body to change. Hopefully FIA’s F1 will die and FOTA can buy its name somehow?

    2. Yes i read Joe’s article earlier. i like Joe. As with Keith they both know what fans want and know what they are talking about.

  129. Well Mosley and FIA is not giving up. FIA said that they are sad that teams are leaving but they knew that will happnes and that new entry list for next year will be publish on saturday…end of story.

    I am just supprise that Bernie did let this happen.

    Silverstone has said allready that they will be happy to have FOTA race in next year and Monaco as well.

    Bernie and Max did not believe that teams stay togetehr and now is time to pay prize. They have F1 name but no F1 cars and drivers. Those who really makes F1 goes with FOTA and i believe that include most of fans as well. TVs wont be intresting to pay for third glas race.

    Sponsors wont be intresting put their money to series what dont include big names and money stop come to Bernie.

    So sad..its true but Bernie should know better.

  130. Well, what a surprise! I wake up on my birthday (yeah, one of many, many, many) with the best present ever. At last the teams, who have spent billions at the behest of the F1 organisers, that’s M and B, for no great financial reward, have said “enough”. They have spent a lot of dosh exploring ways to comply with constant rule changes, only to find that the rules are changed again, without discussion, leading to more, not less, expenditure. I hope the FOTA teams can produce a set of rules, pointing the way forward to consistent decisions in the future, and are able to MAKE THEM CLEAR so there’s no surprise interpretations. Go the teams!

    1. Happy Birthday :)

      1. yeh happy birthday titch

        mine was last sat.
        shame it was 43rd

        1. Boy scunnyman, have you got some catchinh up to do!

          1. So you class me as a boy then? I’ve never felt so young lol

  131. I suspect Bernie will realise his worldwide TV contracts will become worthless without the major players taking part. Will Toyota and Mercedes continue to supply engines when their main teams are elsewhere.

    Prediction for “Formula One World Champion 2010 – Giancarlo Fissichella for Force India.” I don’t think Nico Rosberg will stay with Williams in the “Official F1 Championship”

    1. Will Toyota and Mercedes continue to supply engines when their main teams are elsewhere.

      I imagine it depends on their contract and I would think it specifies they provide the same engine that they use in F1. If they are not in F1 then they have no engine to supply.

      Call it Formula Cosworth.

  132. P.S. sorry got to go and watch British GP practice on the BBC red button service; feel really sorry for all you guys and girls who can’t get this service.

    1. Or people that are at work :-P :(

      1. Yeah, and the internet version of the red button doesn’t work in my office either. Weird, as the iPlayer, the classic GP highlights and all the news video snippits all work.

  133. I haven’t had time to read the 300+ responses so far, so sorry if some of what I say has already been said.

    When I saw this on the headlines I was shocked, despite all the speculation I thought a compromise would be reached and a split avoided, but there is still time for this to happen and I wouldn’t be surprised if all the current teams are in F1 next year.

    While I agree that a split is one of the worst things that could happen to F1, it looks like it may be the only way to get rid of Mosley.

    If the FOTA series did go ahead next year, assuming they manage to sort all the things out like regulations, the circuits and getting enough cars on the grid, I think the key to success will be getting the races live on free to air TV.

    If both series were on terrestrial TV in the UK and didn’t clash I wonder probably end up watching both, at least to start with. Although I side with FOTA in this my two favourite teams are Williams and McLaren, If Williams were still in FOTA I would seriously consider not watching F1 at all and only the FOTA series in the event of a split.

    While both series will be weaker than the current F1, I think that because of the potential teams involved the FOTA series would have more credibility if they manage to do a half decent job of organising it (which of course there is no guarantee of).

    To try and find some positives (however small), if the split were to happen Force India should be able to meet their target of podium finishes and challenging for wins. And while everyone will know any success achieved after the split would be devalued Williams should be able to win their first title in over a decade.

    1. all this drama to just get rid of one man? now who owns a tommy gun?

  134. plz spit on max mosley. if all the fans spit together the idiot will drown in the saliva.

  135. So it is done!? Keith What do you believe will actually happen?
    One thing is for sure, if none of the big names are lining up on the grid in Melbourne next year, I will not be going to see it! Its really sad, coz I planned to go over next year with my fiance. We were there for the 2007 GP, and that was great. I live in Adelaide, and would LOVE F1 cars back here, but that will never happen :-(

  136. maybe we should have a poll here
    who do you support?
    don’t think there will be many fifa votes somehow…
    go for it foca!!

    1. I thought we had that one a few days ago…

      1. no need to waste time on another poll

    2. FIFA? Mind you, a load of football people would probably do a better job of running F1 than Max and pals…

  137. Bigbadderboom
    19th June 2009, 10:01

    Well well well, I thought this would be the news I did not weant to see but Jagged seems to have made some valid points, historically we may view this as na evolution of the sport, if williams and FI can hold themslves together they may join in 2012. At least this explains LOLA’s position.
    Maybe this is a positive for the fans, cheaper entrance to races, more popular circuits, genuine racing and a level playing field.
    Where to now though for the current customers of FOM?, are they going to continue paying the over inflated tv fees to show a second rate F1?, are CVC going to be able to generate enough revenue to cover the interest on the loans taken out to buy F1?, can Max really continue in his role when ACEA have voiced such strong concerns over his governance?. Max has made some really strong enemies and maybe damaging the FIA as a global entity, will this have a knock on effect on other series?. And what will F1fanatic be called??? At the moment lots more questions than answers.

  138. FOTA Boycott at Silverstone anyone? I doubt it because I know that FOTA want whats best for the fans.

    Still didn’t stop me putting 1 pound on Sutil for the win though!

  139. the average F1 fan on the street doesn’t understand the dirty politics staged by max & his troupe. whatever be the problem, it could have & should have been sorted out in an amicable manner. there is an old saying

    ” If there is a problem, there exists a solution”
    ” a problem without a solution is not a problem”

    the problem was not cost-cutting,hair-cutting,shaving or whatever. The original problem was & is MAX MOSLEY.

    If FOTA had stood united ,say 3 years back, which they were not( ferrari apparently spewing fire on mclaren aka spygate), this situation would have never arisen. the spygate gave max the much needed breather that he wanted. all attention from the spankgate was diverted to the spygate. this is what max wanted. to split the teams. The teams must have stood united & oustered mosley. this split was inevitable as long as mosley was the FIA dictator. and does max mosley regularly pay his income taxes? if the income tax dept raids his house, they’ll find a fortune over there along with hidden porn materials.

  140. Think about it people, we have 8 of the heritage teams in Formula 1. The jobs are secure, they can make the rules as they wish (and will do so to give us the best racing). The engineers are all going with them, therefore the technology isn’t going to suddenly disappear.

    This is great news. I’ve been hoping for an end to Bernie’s and Max’s reign for so long- they are obsessed with money, and fight for it to the detriment of the racing! Max wants F1 Cosworth, he can have it- serves him right for shunning both Lola and Prodrive, who will no doubt join the FOTA series!

  141. Mussolini's pet cat
    19th June 2009, 10:22

    This could be the nail in the coffin for Donnington.

    1. Donnington should never have been considered. It is fine for motorcycles but F1 cars… The only other track in the UK that should be considered for F1 is Brands Hatch.
      This ig good as another of Bernies little games is going to explode on him and he will loose big money.

  142. I think a lot of us are in danger of thinking that a FOTA series will be how we think F1 should be with regards to regulations, circuits and most importantly the quality of the racing.

    While I think that F1 does need an overall, for example the way it is governed, the way the money is distributed and the circuits it visits, I am not getting my hopes up that the FOTA series (if it does happen) will be problem free, as their views of F1 will differ from mine, I hope they don’t shorten races for example, and some practical problems such as the old technology vs driver debate.

  143. An interesting twist – N.Racing withdraws its application as they don’t want to race in F1 without manufacturers…


    1. Looks like FOTA have 10 teams now.

      1. I read somewhere, possibly autosport that campos racing are also interested

  144. I see there’s some good ideas already being thrown around for the ‘new F1’.

    For all the doom merchants, cheer up.

    This will make you smile:


  145. This has no business here but i can’t seem to make any posts on the parctice live blog. It says resder comments have been blocked. Whats the deal?

  146. looked at on the bright side , at least Williams may still win a F1 world championship again some day … GOooo Sir Frank ! but more seriously , this will go two ways , either Max/Bernie will give in to FOTA demands , and F1 continues … long live F1 ! OR the new FOTA series , will become so popular and exciting compared to F1 (who without the big names will shrivell up and die), they will after two years buy out the F1 rights (for a pittance of course) , and take back their rightful position at the pinnacle of motorsport.

  147. Yeah and F1 will be on sky sports or something awful….budgets will climb and in 10 years nothing at all. The first nail in the coffin today.

    Anyone who thinks the car companies are sustainable is frankly mad – the big corporations are all nearly dead.

    Max may be mad, Bernie may be insane but the car companies are clinically deluded.

  148. Have that Bernie and Max

  149. Well, looks like Maxy baby and Bernie the bolt have lost out, and I’m not sorry.
    There will be a turbulent few months but with all the major names how can the new series lose?
    I can’t see hundreds of thousands of people flocking to watch teams and drivers (with all due respect)no one has heard of.
    Silverstone should have a major UK race again which I’m pleased about as well. Donnington are of course now up the creek without a paddle…

  150. Wonder what tires they will be running, what will qualifying be like, again what tracks, etc… This action has incredible implications on so many aspects of racing…All I can say is WOW!

    F1=Formerly One

    1. I hope they allow for more than one tyre manufacturer.

      1. I hope not – all the performance and innovation being watered down to who has which tyres was awfull for the sport.

        1. FOTA must employ only single tyre supplier & that too only goodyear.

          1. even dunlop would be ok.

          2. Goodyear is a joke. They can’t even create a good tire for Nascar…

          3. I for one will be waiting eagerly to hear FOTA’s manifesto for the rules and regs and format of the new series, from testing to qualifying, from the race length to points system. Championship duration. Car specs and performance limits. How many cars per team. Will they go with or without refuelling. One tyre or multiple tyre supplies.
            I just hope they take what real fans want into consideration.

  151. F1 expected to lose $2.2 billion with FOTA leaving.

    All that money just because of Max’s ego

    1. is max’s ego worth that much??
      max is a man who took his like & flushed it down the toilet sink. loser

  152. The thing is a series structured in the vein of Max’s suggestions would always be inferior to FOTA series. FOTA will spend money on the cars and the stars…The best Max could ever hope for is a Jr. series.

  153. HounslowBusGarage
    19th June 2009, 11:38

    Team bosses to meet in the Ferrari HQ after first practice today . . .
    Compromise to be announced?

    1. but Ferrari HQ is in maranello,italy. can they make it to fp2 in time ? its a long distance maranello. its very far. even if thet travel by a bombardier learjet, i doubt they’ll make in time for free practice 2.

      1. instead they should meet at force india’s HQ, which is opposite to the silverstone circuit. that would save travelling time.

        1. oops forgot, force india were thrown out of FOTA. guess they should meet at mclaren HQ at woking, i think that is the nearest. or maybe at max’s home at DEVIL’s Bay.

  154. Seems one track glad to take the new series will indeed be Silverstone >>> http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5388285,00.html

    Cheers to the BRDC !

  155. the only credible team in F1 next year is Williams, the most succesful privateer team in f1. F1 would not survive even though getting privateer teams is the right path, success without big budget. But remember, private teams entered f1 while big names like ferrari, honda, maclaren,renault and some others who are very succesful in the past are there, which means we have big spenders, as well as small spenders. and williams wouldn’t be a success if it were not for their Renault engines. they were in sync . So i believe f1 wouldn’t survive. sad. ferrari fan here, the first gp i saw was the candian gp at montreal where Schumi won. ill watch the breakaway series!. but ill watch replays of f1 gp, just as i watch replays of A1,DTM, GP2,. the one i’ll watch live is the new championship, and moto gp, as usual, alternating sundays, i hope.

  156. Follow the money. they would not be breaking away unless there was more money in it for them.Just like the Premier League in footy: the concentration of the maximum dosh in the fewest pockets.

    Have a great time in the pit lane, Keith.

    1. I think it is about time that the teams have the chance­ to develop the cars. Most of the safety tec that we­ have in our cars today come from F1. If Max was­ employed by other or if he was a gentlemen then and had­ F1 at his heart then he would have walked years ago, as­ Bernie, it’s about time the teams took control of­ the sport, all that Bernie & Max think about is­ Pounds, Shellings and Pennice, no regard for the sport.­ F1 is to big for two people control.

  157. It’s about tome Moseley and Ecclestone were kicked­ out of F1. They have had a stranglehold on the sport­ for too long, and have, quite frankly lined their own­ pockets at the expense of the sport. GET OUT the pair­ of you and lets get back to when F1 was a real­ man’s sport. I am sure if it was left up to the­ fans these two would have been gone yesterday!& I sincerely hope that if FOTA is succeful that they­ bring the admittance charges down, I love F1 but just­ cannot afford to go it must cost nigh on a £1000 for a­ family to attend. I think Bernie is too averitious­ has,nt he got enough money without bleeding us dry.I­ watch F1 on TV now but its not the same atmosphere as­ being at the track.

  158. N Techology have now joined Lola in withdrawing their application to compete in 2010:


    If enough of the FIA’s ‘new’ teams for 2010 do the same, then Mosley will simply have to come to an accommodation with FOTA or find his championship left with a skeleton entry.

    1. wow. max must be ashamed that even an unknown entrant doesn’t respect formula one without the big names like mclaren & ferrari. Max you are as senseless as my 105 year old great grandmother.

      1. at least your 105 grandmother loves you, when she remembers you. unlike granny Max, as devil as ever

    2. I reckon prodrive and the other big new teams might join them now. This might be what saves F1, Mosely not having any teams to race next year and realising he needs the fota teams.

      1. max i bet will have to resort to camel races at the bahrain international circuit in the Arabian desert. maybe a horse race at donington next year wouldn’t be bad for formula one( max’s F1)

        1. I would pay to watch Alonso, Hamilton etc. racing camels.

    3. btw, now this is looking like a reality, have you decided what if anything your fantastic site will cover next year?

    4. This is not a shock to me, they have close ties to Ferrari so they obviously will follow them. I was thinking if they were accepted into the F1 series, they would just become a Ferrari B team.

    5. Yes and how many more of those teams waiting in the wings too Keith?

      Prodrive etc.?

      Max may have to merge GP2 with F1.

  159. F1 is too regulated. We want to see­ cars with 6 wheels, we want to see cars which show­ innovation, we want to see drivers disconnected from­ the computer and the pit. We want to see action and if­ it means somebody kills himself so be it, the danger­ pay is very high. Everyday 1000’s of people get­ killed on the road in the world and nobody writes about­ it!

    1. Pedro Andrade
      19th June 2009, 12:39

      Are you serious? Yes, the sport is supposed to be dangerous and exciting, but we’re talking about people’s lives! Is your Sunday afternoon entertainment worth a person’s life?

      1. freak accidents like what happened on may 1st 1994 happen very rarely & i cried for a week later(we are all emotional about this sport & its greatest hero who died a martyr). cuz this idiot mosley in the name of safety has been gobbling up millions of dollars & putting extreme restriction on innovation. i cannot agree to that. formula one these days has become more about brothels,spying,lying,politics etc etc. i just wish for the return of the golden age of the late 80’s 7 early 90’s. thats all. all of us know how dangerous a sport this is. danger is part & parcel of life. whats the thrill of racing without danger? before criticizing me u need to read some of senna’s own quotes. he ot into motor-racing cuz its dangerous,not cuz its safe.

        1. can i sue max & bernie under some medical act?? its cuz of them i’ve developed severe headache. i want some legal advice as to how to sue these 2 idiots. any help would be welcome. the attorney arguing my case will get 50% of the loot.

        2. Pedro Andrade
          19th June 2009, 16:40

          The racing can be made exciting and innovative without endangering people’s lives. People talk of the gold ages like the only thing that went on was racing. The racing was certainly very good, I wish I had seen it, but people died. This is not a gladiator’s show where people die and it’s okay, because it’s part of the game.

          I’m not saying I support Mosley, he’s bad for the sport, and yes, he’s used safety issues to blackmail people into accepting stupid rules, but the safety advances in recent years were a good thing. Ask Robert Kubica.

          Families get destroyed, friends are lost. But I guess that’s ok because there was such a great battle for the lead.

      2. Yes….If it means real racing and not the neutered sport we have now. The last 2 real racers we had were Hakkinen and schumacher… to watch them race at spa was a real treat. To watch them run the Eau Rouge and not lift when every other driver had to is what seperates the real racers from the posers.
        It is a shame that we lost Senna the way we did, but he woouldnt race in the enviroment we have now.
        We have lost other great racers to acidents but, we have also lost lesser drivers just because they didnt bellong out there. The only reason they were there was because they brought millions to the team that they drove for(or that built a car for them).
        Bring back the old tracks in the original layouts and lets see some real racing.

  160. WOW, I have just seen the news and I’m not surprised FOTA are splitting from F1. Everybody could see it coming except max and bernie. They are getting too big for there boots. The power they have over the sport is killing the spectacle, which is racing wheel to wheel with the best equipment they can come up with. Not limiting what they can create and stifling innovation.
    After watching F1 for the better part of 20+ years, I’m actually glad they are splitting as we will see a proper racing series for the best drivers and cars instead of all the politics of the sport we are seeing now.
    I’m thinking Lola and N.Technology withdrawing there applications from F1 this week after not being selected, maybe they are thinking of going into the new FOTA championship.
    If this split really does happen we will see bernie’s true colours. He will sue them all as he has said. Where will this leave him, bitter and twisted or regretting not siding with FOTA. He even said in the practice session on the BBC that its not about sides. That proves he’s only looking after himself and not the best interests of the sport.

  161. This is terrible, ridiculous news, but I can see it still working out. As it says, it will have the best drivers. I personally believe that the majority of decent drivers would gravitate towards the new championship, especially if they are already contracted with the teams involved. F1 losing 8 important teams is a massive blow, but then losing Alonso, Raikenon, Hamilton, Button, Kubica and potentially Vettel would be a disaster. If F1 has virtually no original teams then it will struggle. If so many drivers instantly disappear to I cannot see F1 continuing. What Mosely does and always has failed to notice if that F1s success is based on the fans, and as they support F1 by supporting certain drivers or teams, few will support the new F1. I think the FIA will notice this, Mosely will be booted out for allowing the sport to be brought to its knees, and there may still be a desperate negotiation to bring the teams back, in which case fota will have a vital role in governing F1 in the future. I think Mosely based his statement that F1 didn’t need the teams on his belief that the teams would never actually dare to leave. He’s been gambling with our sport, and now thousands in the buisness will suffer, losing jobs and income.

  162. David (Brazil)
    19th June 2009, 12:40

    This is the problem with those corrupted by too much easy power for too long: they don’t see the axe coming. The reaction here says it all: if the FOTA teams leave, they take Formula 1’s history, spirit and future with them. Mosley and Ecclestone will have a million/billion pound investment in a supermarket trolley championship. It’s a complete meltdown scenario for FIA, Mosley and Ecclestone, while it will be difficult for FOTA to organize in time, but the global public (and TV audience) will go with them.

    The threat’s necessary, but I actually think this will just be the end of Max Mosley: the solution will be a deal close to what the FOTA teams proposed, conditioned on him leaving for good.

  163. The developments are happening at a dizzying pace this morning. One of Max Mosley’s reserve teams for 2010 now say the don’t want to be part of it, and Force India are backing out of their arrangements for the official FIA championship. This leaves the FIA championship about 6 teams for 2010, whereas the FOTA breakaway could have 10 or 11 teams interested in racing.

    But Bernie has been very quiet… CVC which owns the commercial rights has him over a barrel. They want more and more money from F1 to pay their debts, and Mosley’s budget cap would have allowed him to cream more off F1. But he wouldn’t make much money from an official FIA championship with no teams or drivers.

    I reckon what FOTA are going for is to remain in a single championship, but getting Max Mosley the sack, and with a greater wedge over Bernie so they get an American, Canadian and British GP on the calendar for 2010. They might even welcome another team or two onto the grid. I hope they get it.

  164. At the end of the day, there has to be some form of­ Governing body for any motorsport. Someone has to­ define rules that all the teams stick to. The big teams­ seem to be throwing their toys out of the pram because­ they’re not getting it all their own way. Maybe the­ FIA haven’t approached the whole issue as­ diplomatically as they could have(but unfortunately you got brains like max mosley involved at the negotiating table), but I don’t see­ it as any bad thing that the rules are shaken up on a­ regular basis to try and keep things fresh. It’s­ all very well the big teams breaking away, but I reckon­ the fun will come when they try to set up a governing­ body of their own to set the rules and manage them,­ that’s when all the ego’s will start to clash­ as they all want the rules to cater to their own­ designs, and they each fight to get their own people on­ the governing body. Just look at all the spats in­ recent years when Ferrari were accused of being­ favoured by the FIA, can you imagine what it’ll be­ like with eight teams at it? Max Moseley reminds me of­ a fuddy duddy school head trying to manage a bunch of­ unruly children who insist they can sort out their own­ education without his interference & the unruly children in this case are right. Now­ they’re all having a tantrum! i hate mosley to the core and the FIA’s­ approach to many things. Nor Bernie’s for that­ matter. But I’m­ by no means convinced that FOTA will produce anything­ better or as long lasting theirself. we need stability. that is of paramount importance.

    1. I agree – for the past few years the only time F1 has reached the news headlines has been for it’s myriad (and largely avoidable) scandals.

      1. The sports bigger than the two tyrants.FOTA now have­ the freedom,and the two tyrants can deal with the­ consequences of their dictatorship falling apart.About­ time and I laughing at Max and Bernie.They’ve had­ it coming.Max and Bernie Have A Nice Day:)

  165. This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders. The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series.

    This part of the FOTA press release says it all. To the fans and to the racing teams. Join FOTA championship and race at the highest standard. You could say its the peoples championship. :)

  166. I believe this was a tactical blunder from the FOTA, as it leaves them exposed to legal actions as threatened earlier by Bernie and Max. I would just have sent a “B” team to Max’s Championship, with a bare bones car, some young promises as drivers and third line mechanics and engineers as pit crew. Thus the FIA requirements (including Low Budget as they so desperately want) would be fulfilled, and the Teams could have their own championship without being harassed by Max and Bernie’s lawyers.

    1. could you please explain in detail as to how it is possible to operate 2 racing teams simultaneously? What do u mean by “Max’s Championship”. please don’t use that term. that is what max wants!! a Championship named after him. i belive he’s not worth it!

      1. Just borrow a group of enthusiasts, give them a scant ten million euros for everything and leave them to their chance. The rest of your money goes to your real team competing in the real series.
        As for “Max’s Championship” I believe it will be so shameful that he deserves it being named after him!

    2. If the FOTA succeds in creating a new series, the FIRST rule they have to revise is the test driving ban. I believe this season could have been a lot more interesting with a real chance for the teams to develop their cars and try to catch up with the white wonders before it was too late…
      Also, I feel a little bit sorry for poor Jenson, all this will no doubt stain his (and Ross’) deserved world cup.

      1. no, you said something about bernie taking legal action & the teams especially ferrari & red bull, since they have a contract clause with bernie having to send B team with poor drivers & mechanics to formula one owned by max & bernie. how can a team like ferrari or red bull participate in both max’s f1 & fota f1? isn’t waste of money? will it not be better for ferrari to pay off the lawsuit damages to the loser bernie?

        1. I don’t know what the legal clauses really are, but earlier Mr. Ecclestone warned that he would sue everybody (not just Ferrari and RB) if they tried to create a parallel series.
          I just would prefer wasting a few million euros beating Bernie and Max at their own game that to give them to the lawyers (by the way I believe the legal actions’ costs could raise to hundreds of millions…)

  167. max mosley i suspect is a Illuminati guy. satanic in all senses. he wants a new “FORMULA ONE” order. good that FOTA have had the balls to stand up to this man. We need more courageous people like the FOTA members.

    1. There may be more truth in your comment than you realize.

      1. When is max going to invade Poland?

  168. Go Renault 09"
    19th June 2009, 13:08


  169. What a bad way to retire from the sport Max. Or will­ you fight for the fifth term come October this year? i guess you will & embrass yourself in front of the whole world. we all know how dictators are elected. the same way you are elected. but its a pity you’ll have no one to flex your authority over!! good luck mosley.

  170. I suggest that if Bernie sues FOTA…then commercial interests will sue Bernie…Are there have to be clauses in his contracts with the broadcasting interests and commercial interests that specify “certain teams” much the way rock stars have to sing certain songs during a tour that are sponsored by corporate interests? I’m guessing…but wouldn’t that be a reasonable assumption?

    Bernie loses half to ex wife and the rest to attorneys…That too is a reasonable assumption.

    Can Bernie force Max out? He’s a greedy bastiage… but…does he still have a useful purpose?

    1. Bernie loses half to ex wife and the rest to attorneys…That too is a reasonable assumption.
      That would be the greatest form of poetic justice I have seen in years.

      Can Bernie force Max out? He’s a greedy bastiage… but…does he still have a useful purpose?
      I dont believe Bernie will do anything with Max as I think their fates are intertwined…..

  171. This season the FIA and Bernie Ecclestone have finally­ got what they have wanted for years, i.e Ferrari &­ Mclaren not winning anything. For at least a decade­ they have changed rules season after season;­ qualifying, tyres, car design, engine use, etc, etc.But­ this time they have gone too far. They have ditched­ some great race venues for the money of the Middle­ & Far East. By doing that they should have realised­ that money ultimately rules sport, so it should be no­ surprise to them that money has caused this to happen.­ Every team had to go back to the drawing board. Years­ of championship-winning development had to go out of­ the window, especially for Ferrari & Mclaren. They­ have been penalised for going all the way to try to win­ the championship last season, which was one of the most­ exciting in years. The FIA should have allowed things­ to settle down for a few years. Instead they have now­ ruined the sport. No doubt Sky will get the rights to­ the new break-away championship so that very few­ genuine fans will be able to watch it, leaving them­ with the scraps. Well done Max, Bernie & co!

    1. he is a loser, even if brawn is winning, brawn is with fota, and this is a private team, if they were to become champions, people will believe more ans support brawn because they did it with less money. Brawn actually counters F1 for private teams next year, because as they stand, Brawn is a Succesful private team now, so whom wil you believe as a fan, private teams with no stars , running under the corrupt environment, or a private team, that defied all odds, including less money to spend, that won the Championship, and is now part of a breakaway series because it thinks F1 is ran by a corrupt, satanical nazi. do you pick an unknown private team that might be dominated by williams or force india, or a champion private team that will go toe to toe with ferrari and mclaren albeit less money.

      the smart and obvious choice is to Go with FOTA. with brawn joining them, it really makes the series look less expensive because they will become champions. See Max, you lose!

      1. I suspect Brawn has a bigger budget than RBR for this year. They are well financed for this season, they don’t even need sponsorship. Matter of fact Brawn spent more money in preparation for this season than Ferrari or Mclaren.

  172. Keef I need that “EDIT OPTION”!

  173. Well congratulations Mosley you did you now control F1­
    but of course the historical acheivement of any driver­ winning the title in 2010 with your selection of ex GP2­ and Champ car of the like will be great to see if you­ love the A1 series of which i dont
    so as a sugestion­ why not call the 2010 FIA Palma – GP2 – F1 championship­
    as that is what you have as teams
    PS Bernie why did­ you not just push mosley off the 100th floor window and­ save F1 as it should be

    Never mind but you caused­ this with your greedy selflesness and max;s­ dictatorship


  174. “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”

    This bible quote pretty much sums it all up. max mosley is the satan. He’s the anti-christ that the bible refers to. all good things have to come to an end. F1 too had an end. This is the end of an era. F1 R.I.P.

    & to max & bernie——— U’ll rot in hell.

  175. Look at how the FIA have managed to ruin rallying at the highest level.

    The World Championship has, through a series of poorly thought out technical changes and a desire to chase the money and let contracts which mean the WRC is no longer mainstream TV, become a shadow of it’s former self.

    Similar to the Silverstone debacle signing up for the British round to be run solely in Wales, rather than going to the stages the fans want to see such as Scotland, Yorkshire, Lake District, Kielder, forest of Dean etc, has has further alienated fans and manufacturers are leaving the sport in droves as their is no commercial benefit to them any more.

    But what the heck Max will still get the president of the Zimbabwe Motor Federation and similar to support him so they can still get their free trips to swanky meetings in Switzerland.

    And we used to think Balestre was bad !

    1. Remember the holes in the air boxes after Senna’s death? Sheesh

  176. I am obviously using metaphors too complex for some. I­ will try simple language and I am not being sarcastic.­ This is not a joke. Bernie Ecclestone owns (LEGALLY)­ the sport of F1 entirely. Just as you own your car, and­ choose who rides in it! The only teams he has a­ contract with are Ferrari, and Red Bull. That’s why­ these three teams (incl. Toro Rosso) alone get about­ 45% of the money. These teams will be sued for­ billions, not millions if they don’t race with him­ next year. The other teams can do what they like. They­ have always been free to leave. I think Ferrari have­ tried to call a bluff and are still hoping the FIA­ cave. If the FIA do not, legally their only choices are­ surrender or ruin.

    1. I think Fiat’s lawyers would have a field day with Bernie’s lawyers. And in what country would this lawsuit have domain?

      Bottom line: Who has more money, Fiat, Renault, Toyota and Macca, or Bernie?

      1. bernie of course. he’s amassed do much wealth that the swiss are having difficulty storing that wealth. i guess max is as rich as the vatican.

  177. I think you got your facts wrong – Bernie WAS the owner of commercial rights to F1 and he did indeed make milionares out of team owners. However, he then sold commercial rights to CVC capital partners but remained on position as a managing director.

  178. Was that to me Gabal? If the teams leave what does Bernie actually have?

    1. I was replying to mp4-19b. I think the lawyers are the only one now who will benefit greatly from this development.

      I’m not a bandwagon of this prospective new series/championship being the ”second coming” for 2 reasons:
      1) teams can’t really agree on anything if they don’t have a common enemy.
      2) the economic climate is possible the worst possible for this kind of leap of faith.

      1. thanx, i never knew that. but whatever be it, bernie is an idiot. that to my has been proved beyond any doubt.

        1. Well, whatever your personal feelings towards him you have to give him a credit of transforming f1 in a multi-milion earning organisation…

          1. Really? Why – when did profits become a virtue?

          2. Well, for start people were able to make money from doing what they like and he helped organise the sport into what it is today. All this isn’t about caps or technical regulations – it is about power. I know I’m the minority here for not seeing Bernie as a ”big Satan” but without Bernie I think manufacturers wouldn’t have entered F1 in the first place and team owners would deffinetly not be as wealthy as they are now…

          3. OK – all well and good. But why should any of these things make us give B. E. “credit” as you say? To say that things would have been different without him, is not automatically to say that they would have been worse, or better, for that matter, because no one can know. What we do know is that his stewardship has steered the sport where it is today. And that is not much of a compliment to him, is it?

          4. I just say I don’t see him as personification of evil as most here do – I give credit where credit is due as I don’t see todays actions as something positive, more as a clash of egos in a battle for power which ended up breaking apart the sport that I love. However, teams are as much responsible as FIA is for this break-up, I really thought things are on the verge of reaching compromise which would help steer F1 safe in this troubling economic times.

      2. Who say’s the teams are getting rich with Bernie’s administration? Bernie, one man, takes half the money, the other half gets shared by the 10 teams. But the 10 teams do the research and development, fuel and oil the cars, employ the engineers and team personnel, pay for their trip overseas, repair any damage. And if they fail, they get nothing.

      3. Dont think that this entire economic meltdown hasnt been manufactured. I can tell you without hesitation that there are many big corporations that have been ussing this as a way of reducing salaries and increasing profits and bonuses for the executives. If we(the ordinary people) have to suffer a little for them, that is ok as they deserve all these riches. I know of several companies that have had little if any impact aand some are even growing at this time.
        The banks needed this to resurect t\higher interest rates on credit and to revaalue the currency exchanges.
        Fota will survive this just fine and we will get better racing at lower ticket prices and the tracks will be able to make money once again.
        I am telling you all this is a good thing.

  179. HounslowBusGarage
    19th June 2009, 13:52

    This from crash.net

    Sir Jackie Stewart has contended that Max Mosley has finally ‘gone too far’ with his radical cost-cutting drive in F1 and that whilst ‘the fat lady hasn’t sung yet’ in the damaging FIA/FOTA budget cap civil war, in the interests of peace and averting a permanent schism at the pinnacle of international motorsport.

    The eight FOTA dissenters are locked in crisis talks today (Friday) as on-track practice takes place ahead of this weekend’s British Grand Prix, with Brawn GP team principal Ross Brawn having cancelled a BBC Radio Five Live interview to attend a meeting in Ferrari’s motorhome.

    Following a stalemate that has persisted for weeks – with the teams insisting that Mosley’s £40 million budget cap is simply unworkable in such a short space of time, and the FIA President contending that without it F1 will not survive – matters came to a head late early this morning when FOTA announced that they were following through with their menace of forming a manufacturer-spearheaded breakaway series, a threat Mosley had previously dismissed.

    Aside from the cost cap debate, the Englishman’s increasingly autocratic and arbitrary style of governance is under fire, with FOTA angry at the manner in which the new regulations were introduced without prior consultation with the teams, what they perceive to be a dangerous precedent and one that cannot be allowed to endure.

    Former triple world champion Stewart pointed to the unprecedented $100 million sporting fine meted out to McLaren-Mercedes over the infamous espionage row two years ago as a sign that Mosley’s rule is not as biased as it should be. The Scot suggested that the only way for F1 to avoid splitting irrevocably in two as CART/Champ Cars and the Indy Racing League did across the Pond over a decade ago would be for Mosley – whose involvement in a tabloid sex scandal early last year did untold damage to the sport – to step down. His current term in the most powerful and influential post in international motor racing is due to expire in October, and he has yet to reveal whether he intends to stand again or not.

    “The fat lady hasn’t sung yet,” Stewart told international news agency Reuters at Silverstone. “FOTA have made a decision that they cannot go on with the governance in its present form. I think they (the teams) do want Max to go, because frankly some of the decisions made over the years have been very questionable.

    “For example, [there was] a $100 million fine on McLaren for something that was never proven. Never in the history of sport has such an amount of money been levied by a sporting authority – and that was something that he drove.

    Meeting must be over soon. Practice in less than 30 mins.

    1. HounslowBusGarage
      19th June 2009, 13:53

      Sorry, just over 30 mins!

  180. I might suggest that it’s like replacing a Beatle… say, John Lennon with…My point is made?

    1. yes sir!!! i understand ur frustration.

  181. I can only hope that if Montreal gets a race back next year, it’s the FIA F1.

    1. why are u an isolated case? you support His Holiness Sir Max Oswald Mosley?? or are you a mediocre motorsport driver, itching to get into f1(max’s F1)? maybe u gotta bribe max & bernie before u get into their racing league. i suggest u play rfactor, its better than “MAX F1”.

      1. Haha, Any way to get into F1!!

        Unlike many here, I don’t care for the personalities behind the issues. I just look at how F1 used to be and think that teams like Walter Wolf Racing who nurtured Jody Scheckter, even teams like Tyrrell, cannot exist in todays F1. I would rather watch race teams, and not something that is 100% solely an advertisement for the auto industry.

  182. Can we say Champ Car/IRL Split. Very Sad. I will finish the year but can say I will watch next year. I tried to watch the CART/IRL Shows and it was a waist. The split will divide the spectators and some of us will just go away. I hope it dose not take 20 years to unifiy again. For lack of anything else this…..SUCKS

  183. Well..for the sake of history, I think it’s better for all the teams involved in the split to stay! But the afore mentioned comment is based entirely upon Max giving up the FIA position of leadership. If that happens…then we have the history intact. If it fails to happen…then we start a new history that’s not yet happened. There were comments earlier re: the Indy 500 and Monaco trophy’s. Thing is…when I think of Sterling Moss, Pedro Rodriguez, Fanzio, Brabham, Stewart, Hunt, Clark, Shumacher, Graham and Daimon Hill, Mansel, Prost, Senna, Mika, Fernando, Hamilton, Kimi or Lauda…the list is endless…I never think of Max or Bernie! Call me ungrateful…but, do you?

  184. As much as this may seem like a catastrophe – I think that this is a good thing. Was there really another way to wrestle F1 out of the hands of the bureaucratic Mosely and the beyond-greedy Ecclestone?

    I really believe this is a blessing in disguise.

  185. Prisoner Monkeys
    19th June 2009, 15:17

    Okay, the shock has worn off a litle bit, and while I still think it’s a bad thing, I’ve calmed down now. I’m still betting on one championship in 2010; I think this is a tactic to try and force the FIA into a regime change.

    1. We shall find out soon enough – teams have untill today to make their entries unconditional…

      Radio 5 says Max Mosley will have a press conference shortly so we shall see what will be said there…

      1. hope they stage a bloodless coup.

  186. Bigbadderboom
    19th June 2009, 15:40

    I’ waiting for Max’s Statement, my money is on his resignation or promise to not restand in October.

    1. hope so

    2. but knowing max, he’s by the way a scumbag. he’ll definitely contest the election. men such as him win by deceit. we all know how dictators around the world get elected. FIA is not a democracy. its epitome of fascist ideology. so i’ll not be surprised if he’s re-elected, unopposed. FIA=nazi germany & USSR

  187. I don’t see it actually happening, but would be delighted if it did. It’s not like the Indycar split at all, F1 isn’t competing with Nascar, and Indycar didn’t have Ferrari and their millions of fans. And the FOTA championship might end up with a lot of better tracks, not these tedious Tilkedromes and horrors like Hungary and Valencia. I’m sure they can recruit a couple of other teams and give them a Toyota or BMW engine so each supplier represents two teams. Or better still 3 car teams, and far less opportunity for driver favoritism and team orders. Ok i know I’m dreaming now… :)

  188. “Ferrari and their millions of fans”

    You forgot mclaren. they are after all the most successful team in f1 history, with more wins percentage. higher than ferrari.

    1. yes,yes, mark my words, mclaren will win on Monaco this year.

    2. speaking on behalf of everyone not in the uk, “mcwho?” the word “ferrari” is right up there with “telephone” – understood perfectly, everywhere.

  189. So FIA taking immediate legal action against FOTA teams.

    But using this as a reason for delaying the publication of the 2010 entry list untill the action is resolved.

    So Max extends the deadline whilst desperately trying to save face.

    1. Here’s the link:


      This is gonna get effing messy.

      1. The Autosport article about the FIA legal action against FOTA included this

        “The actions of FOTA as a whole, and Ferrari in particular, amount to serious violations of law including wilful interference with contractual relations, direct breaches of Ferrari’s legal obligations and a grave violation of competition law.

        While it may be true in a legal sense and we don’t know all the in and outs of the contracts in F1, I found the last bit quite amusing. So setting up a rival series is “a grave violation of competition law”.

        1. “a grave violation of competition law”

          definitely because if FOTA get their way there will be no competition in F1. :)

    2. Yes it’s ok for max to use legal action as an excuse to delay entry list pubilcations, but when FOTA ask for it to try and save F1 max practically slams the door in their faces.

  190. i case there is a split, can we see tobacco manufacturers return to the sport?? i would love to see the back of west,marlboro,mild seven,lucky strike,rothmans,winfield,jps etc. i love tobacco advertisements on car livery. they were so cool. i personally am against tobacco products though.

    1. unlikely, it’s the country the one which bans the tobacco advertisements, not the FIA

  191. FIA is taking legal action


    Clearly Max is not in for a loss at any cost.

    Shame Shame Shame. Max will go down in history as the person who districted F1.

    1. sorry slip of the fingers

      Max will go down in history as the person who destructed F1.

    2. Litigation – that won’t add to costs, oh no it won’t.

      What a surreal situation. Surely he must realize that even if he forces all the FOTA teams to race until their contract expires, the teams will make a beeline for the door immediately they are free to do so. The new teams must be asking what they’ve gotten themselves into.

  192. FOTA were being like jews in the second world war with Max Mosley as Hitler! If i were Max mosley i would consider suicide now!

    1. you analogy is perfect.

      1. the analogy is vulgar and inappropriate

        1. No… his analogy is perfect.

  193. the average F1 fan on the street doesn’t understand the dirty politics staged by max & his troupe. whatever be the problem, it could have & should have been sorted out in an amicable manner. there is an old saying

    ” If there is a problem, there exists a solution”
    ” a problem without a solution is not a problem”

    the problem was not cost-cutting,hair-cutting,shaving or whatever. The original problem was & is MAX MOSLEY.

    If FOTA had stood united ,say 3 years back, which they were not( ferrari apparently spewing fire on mclaren aka spygate), this situation would have never arisen. the spygate gave max the much needed breather that he wanted. all attention from the spankgate was diverted to the spygate. this is what max wanted. to split the teams. The teams must have stood united & oustered mosley. this split was inevitable as long as mosley was the FIA dictator. and does max mosley regularly pay his income taxes? if the income tax dept raids his house, they’ll find a fortune over there along with hidden porn materials.

  194. This is not the end! FIA = will take legal action
    Bernie Eccelstone = will take legal action (as he has mentioned before)
    AS long as Kimi and Ferni are in the championshi im well happy!

    1. can fans sue max & bernie for causing a worldwide hysteria? i don’t mind spending a few bucks for a deserving cause.

  195. can i sue max & bernie under some medical act?? its cuz of them i’ve developed severe headache. i want some legal advice as to how to sue these 2 idiots. any help would be welcome. the attorney arguing my case will get 50% of the loot. i promise .

  196. max is falling with no dignity at all.

    1. its gravity thats pulling him down, not dignity. alas all of us have to obey the laws of Newtonian physics,including max. hope max tries to defy the laws of physics, the results will be funny!! he’ll try i suppose, never shy to venture into the unknown our maxie. really funny man.

  197. So which of the new teams on the F1 reserve list will be first to jump ship and put in an application for the Teams Association World Championship?

    Oooooh bugger… I just thought. Poor Codemasters. They won’t know what textures to make for their 2010 PS3 & 360 game, if any!

    1. I had been thinking the same thing Ajokay. And i bet they have spent a ton of money on it already and paid Bernie or max loads too.

    2. I also think that the TEAMS ASSOCIATION WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP is agreat idea to name the new series if it gets off the ground.

      You should send an email with that idea to FOTA.

  198. This is insane. Whether or not you think its a good thing (and I sure dont), it is clear that Max Mosley is responsible for driving the teams out of the sport. Im afraid that the split will be destructive, but I’m cautiously optimistic about the breakaway series. The question that remains now is, why has Bernie been so conservative with his words throughout this war? Maybe he had a stroke over losing Ferrari, and no one has noticed yet…

  199. I cant wait for the first race of the new Series :D

    I’m petty sure its gonna rock!

  200. It’s a blessing in disguise in my opinion. The sport has been going downhill for quite some time and some damage which has been done is irreparable. The persons responsible for this should hang their head in shame.

  201. i dunno how max is able to sleep at nights?

    1. He likes to feel the pain I guess :)

    2. Max Mosley is a SOCIOPATH….they have no scruples, no feelings and certainly don’t care about anybody or anything other than themselves. One form is Dissocial personality Disorder.

      Callous unconcern for the feelings of others and lack of the capacity for empathy.
      Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.
      Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them.
      Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.
      Incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment.
      Marked proneness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior bringing the subject into conflict.
      Persistent irritability

      Glibness/superficial charm
      Grandiose sense of self-worth
      Pathological lying
      Lack of remorse or guilt
      Emotionally shallow
      Callous/lack of empathy
      Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

      Do any of the above description remind you of a certain Mr M????????

      1. those were powerful words!! it’ll knock down anybody!!

      2. “Pathological lying” never ever have i come across such a term.lol!! has it anything to do with bacteria & parasites that max carries along with him?

  202. he’s at risk of subjecting himself to eternal damnation from god. but i guess the man is so lost in emptiness that he doesn’t give a damn about god.damnation to hell is what max deserves for his sins, and only by the grace of God can he atone for his sins and escape damnation. so i to pray god to show him mercy, & show him the right way forward. god help up & formula one.

    1. God is to busy on Sunday to waste his time watching F1 – maybe he records it and watches during the week.

  203. i would feel guilty of treachery. max’s lost his soul, its good time for him to do some soul searching

  204. To me, this photo from GPUpdate (Sutton) says it all. Bernie looking suspiciously out of (race) control…

  205. From Autosport: <>

    Of course the deal will be done so putting the BRDC in a pickle. The Breakaway series has either no British Grand Prix or something awful at Rockingham or something. No Monaco Grand Prix, no Spa – are you still going to watch.

    Hey we could have the Birmingham Superprix the ‘Monaco of the Midlands’ back

    1. The quote was – FIA president Max Mosley says it is “highly probable” that the British Grand Prix will take place at the Silverstone circuit again next year.

      Although Donington has a 17-year deal to host the race from 2010, the FIA head made it clear he believes the race will actually take place at Silverstone

    2. I believe that FOTA has Monaco in its 2010 lineup. I also understand that there is some Monaco-Ferrari tie in. Seems that the Monaco Grand Prix will be a race with Ferrari entered into it. If this is all true the FIA has lost its “crown jewel” Who will not watch Monaco? Who will not go there to watch. What TV broadcaster will turn down the opportunity to be there?

  206. The quote was – FIA president Max Mosley says it is “highly probable” that the British Grand Prix will take place at the Silverstone circuit again next year.

    Although Donington has a 17-year deal to host the race from 2010, the FIA head made it clear he believes the race will actually take place at Silverstone.

  207. The end is nigh for Max Mosley. With Lola, N Technologies, and Prodrive having all abandoned (FIA 2010) ship, and even Litespeed dropping its bid to be named Lotus, Max has nowhere left to go. No wonder he couldn’t publish an entry list – he wouldn’t be able to fill up his grid without FOTA.

    Max had an interview with the BBC (geolocked; UK-only), where he said the strangest things:


    1. He had to keep the 2010 door open for FOTA, since no one else would back them – I know he needs FOTA, but that’s the lamest excuse I’ve ever heard.
    2. He thinks F1 will be in Silverstone next year, despite Bernie saying they won’t be, regardless of whatever happens to Donington – rather inconsistent, there…
    3. He said he’d be more likely to step down if peace broke down in F1 – despite saying in the past he wouldn’t run again. Of course, no one believed him, but no one thought he’d so badly contradict himself.

    He also looks old and haggard in the interview. If anything, it reminded me of the final days of Ferdinand Marcos – if you’re familiar with him.

    1. Pedro Andrade
      19th June 2009, 18:37


      “It will all stop sometime between the beginning of 2010 and March 2010, the first race. All this will stop, it will all settle down and everyone will go racing.”

      Is he implying that tomorrow the 8 FOTA teams will be on the entry list?

      1. Pedro, the 2010 entry list won’t be published tomorrow – Max delayed it indefinitely. He used his impending legal action as an excuse, but really, he’s only delayed it because without Lola, Prodrive, and N Technologies, he doesn’t have enough teams to even create a half-decent 2010 entry list. He now realizes he needs FOTA for F1 to survive, which is why he’s suing them.

        1. Pedro Andrade
          19th June 2009, 19:27

          Yes, I posted too early, only saw that piece of news afterwards.

          Mosley is on his last breath here, he knows he can’t have any sort of Championship without the FOTA teams (the same ones he previously said to go somewhere else). The only thing left for him is the lawsuit. He his a sad man not to accept that it’s as simple as he stepping down in order for F1 to survive this crisis, at least for now. Money-sharing and Bernie is the next problem to face.

    2. haha so it will be the end of him? i hope so, We in the Philippines ended the Marcos regime, maybe the drivers can opt not to race tomorrow. Its bad, but for the common good, just like people power 1. hehe

  208. Excellent , it’s about time this nonsense came to a head.
    Between them the dynamic duo are responsible for the dullest season in years, idiotic rules, ugly cars, boring circuits in countries that have no F1 fanbase and absolutely no racing at the sharp end of the field.
    How could it get any worse?

  209. Until legal proceedings are initiated in a court of law, we don’t know that this isn’t just another delaying tactic for the FIA to save face regarding the due date and loss of some new teams and still have FOTA on the back foot somewhat with the threat of legal action hanging over them.

    This legal threat would also give second thoughts to sponsors, tracks, and other participants considering the theoretical new series.

    Threat of legal action is par for the course in disputes like this. We’ll see how things unfold.

  210. williamgeorgefraser
    19th June 2009, 19:10

    Sorry to say this but this has been on the cards for years and no-one has had the guts to stand against Moseley when it came to elections. Will someone finally stand against him at the next election or do those who organise motor sports really want to see it turn to chaos. GET THIS CNUT(let’s see him turn back the tide) OUT AND THE DWARF ECCLESTONE. And why not sue them to get back the millions they have taken from Formula 1.

  211. On this eventful day in the story of F1 I have been unfortunately too busy working to keep up with developments.

    All I wish to say at this point is good luck FOTA and be damned with the FIA forever…

  212. Pedro Andrade
    19th June 2009, 20:01

    Mosley unlikely to step down amid crisis

    “I don’t want to go on too long, but the difficulty they are putting me in is that even if I wanted to stop this October, they are making it very difficult for me to do so”

    Power-hungry as ever, everything is an excuse to stay…

    “I am the figurehead because I happen to be the president, but I cannot move without the authority of all these different countries. We have 120 different countries and each is represented by the head of motorsport in that country. It is a huge organisation, so the idea that it is somehow me, that is really not the issue.

    Then how is it that it was him who chose who the new 3 teams would be? How is it that the meetings with FOTA are with him and not with representatives of the countries as well?

  213. If Max didn’t resign after being caught in bed with a bunch of Nazi-themed hookers, I would not expect him to resign over this either.

  214. Just playing devil’s advocate here… Toyota have already intimated that if they don’t win, they may pull out of F1. Does this mean they would withdraw from FOTA and leave only 7 teams? 14 cars on the grid doesn’t sound great. Or they could bring in some cannonfodder teams to ensure that the big teams keep winning. I’m still undecided on the whole FIA/FOTA thing and keep seeing huge egos and posturing from both sides.

    1. HounslowBusGarage
      19th June 2009, 21:07

      I think you might find that the FOTA Eight have all discussed, and are prepared to, field three cars each in any breakaway series. So 24 cars are probably assured, plus a new team or two, which will relieve the strain on the less affluent teams fielding a third car.
      If a compromise is not forthcoming and if Max is not able to obtain an injunction preventing the FOTA Eight from racing in any other series (unlikely), there will still be twenty-plus cars on a FOTA grid next year.
      Let’s compare and contrast to the FIA Rump. Force India and Williams might be induced to run three car teams. Let’s pretend that Ferrari, Red Bull and Torro Rosso are impelled by contract to run teams. In which case Ferrari might have to run three cars (according to their peculiar and individual contract), Force India would run two. So that’s 13 cars. It’s worth remembering that by it’s own rules, the FIA will not award World Championship points in an event where there are twelve or fewer competitors.
      Fun, init?

      1. HounslowBusGarage
        19th June 2009, 21:11

        I’m sorry, “Force India would run two” should have read “Red Bull and Torro Rosso would run two each”
        And the other point I have just remembered is that the FIA prohibits single car teams.

  215. Max Mosley is right. F1 now is boring.

  216. Keith, I was wondering if you could do an article explaining exactly why the breakaway has come around. I know it’s to do with the whole “two-tier championship” but I don’t understand how the two-tier championship would work… or what exactly it means!

  217. It was Max himself who said FOTA should for their own championship if they don’t like his rules. He also said F1 can survive without Ferrari. Why doesn’t he just let them go. Afterall its an opportunity to have a single spec engine as he had proposed some time back. Imagine the money that would be saved if all F1 teams (sans FOTA :-) ) ran the Cusworth engine. This is a blessing in disguise for Max. Grass Root F1 :-)

    The FIA (Max) has got too involved in F1 instead of concentrating on motor racing in general. What business have the 120 countries, who vote Mosely in, got to do with F1?

  218. HounslowBusGarage
    19th June 2009, 21:20

    Do you know, I can almost believe I can see the future . . .
    Imagine this; we have Formula 2 with a field of twenty five or so identical cars run by the FIA (not bad at all), and a slightly faster Formula 1 grid of twenty or so identical ‘spec’ cars (no bad thing either), also run by the FIA.
    And then we have a mighty, non-FIA grid of twenty-plus different super-fast, super-evolved cars run as World Grand Prix Racing.
    All three series are vying with each other (via their sponsors) to ensure that their race series of sixteen-or so races per season are screened live and free-to-air to a worldwide audience.
    Unlikely, I know. Still, would be nice wouldn’t it?

  219. A thought just occurred to me. Surely both Ferrari and the Red Bull teams have enough money to field budget capped teams in F1, and still have more than enough left over for the FOTA series? Why not just avoid legal action then, and run 2 sets of teams? They can use the budget cap to their advantage, and try out younger drivers.

    1. HounslowBusGarage
      19th June 2009, 21:46

      I think that would be perfectly possible if FIA-F1 was budget capped to £40 m.
      Ferrari and the Mateschitz teams could race until the conclusions of their alleged contracts and then withdraw, leaving the teams that are happy with FIA control to continue.

      1. That’s very true they could even use it for testing for their rival series. Drivers, Engines and Aero and i’m sure there costs won’t even come near the 40 mill cap… as the only cost would be building the cars and pit crews.

        Also in extra protest they could just go slow.
        How much of that will the FIA take before they THROW them out

    2. Pedro Andrade
      19th June 2009, 21:53

      That could be done, but it would only hurt Ferrari and Red Bull’s reputation, in my opinion.

      1. HounslowBusGarage
        19th June 2009, 22:02

        Yes, but I think what Hammad is getting at is that it would be potentially a lot cheaper to field an FIA-F1 team @ £40m than face many times that amount in punitive damges should the case go against them. Depends on the odds, I suppose.

  220. Did you read latest wisdom from Max?
    “It will all stop sometime between the beginning of 2010 and March 2010, the first race. All this will stop, it will all settle down and everyone will go racing.”

    I was like – “what? 9 months more of this?? 2-3 months damaged reputation of the sport so badly, and he doesn’t mind another 9? This year is ruined by all this it seems and it looked so promising… I hope Fotas announcement is for real so I will watch normal open wheel racing next year.

    1. If that’s what he believes then I doubt he’ll be voted as president to see the outcome.

      1. the simplest and cheapest solution to this saga is…………………

        the bleeding obvious ……….

        Boot Mosely out of FIA.

  221. It’s bad – I agree, but better than to bend to Mad Max tyranny. Now he can play with Force India, Campos and other wannabies rookies that not even in GP2 have place…

    He did it – he deserves it. About us – the fans – I don’t feel so pessimistic like you.

    I can see a better “Formula Gold” or whatever name they will came up with, than I’ve been seeing formula one for some time and really, really better than this year stupid circus…

    Playing with regulations looks not very bad – look at the final results of the 2nd Free Practice in Silverstone… Look at all the races this season….!

    Ask the Ferrari, McLaren, BMW, Renault fans if they like it and if they will pay to continue do see this unfair show where a team had mouths and 3 wind tunnels (24hs/7days a week) to build a car and others (like McLaren today) are painting the flanks of their front wings to test the aerodynamics effect – where the paint (blue) appears in the flaks… Ridiculous – that’s a job of the engineers at home in a wind tunnel… not on a Friday free practice… It’s ridiculous, I can’t say enough. I hope Mad Max gets fired and dies broke, but that never happens to the really bad people… And Bernie… take him to an asylum… He’s done a good job over the years, now he’s just around looking like he doesn’t really know we he is… RIDICULOUS!

  222. I still think that the most likely scenario will be the removal of Max Mosley. It would certainly be the most preferable; to paraphrase Cromwell, he has sat there too long for any good he may have done.

    Both sides are going for extreme brinkmanship here but of the two, FIA has the most to lose, for they need FOTA more than FOTA needs the FIA.

    Should the worse come to the worse, I agree with most posters on here in that FOTA would be more than capable of setting up its own championship and there are enough venues that have been ditched by Bernie over the past few years that would welcome a FOTA F1 Championship (or the breakaway championship that probably won’t be able to call itself F1 because Bernie owns the rights to that name). Silverstone, Imola and Montreal are the three that spring immediately to mind, while Monza’s contract with FIA is up for renewal and Monaco will go with whichever series has Ferrari (that’d be FOTA, then). GPs in France (Magny Cours or the Le Mans Bugatti circuit) and Spain (Jerez?) would work, and the US would certainly be interested in hosting at least one round (but where? probably Indianapolis, although Sebring would be an interesting venue if probably too rough for F1 cars).

    The only problem would be the relatively short notice; all motor racing championship schedules have no doubt already been drawn up, so where would a FOTA F1 series fit in to the schedules?

    1. I hope he gets kicked out and is remembered as the man who tried to kill this sport

  223. Is there anything in the world what would make Max stop talking???

    He obviously never have learned that there is place and time for everyhting and now is NOT time to say that teams like Ferrari will race normally in Melbourne in next MARCh…Geeeesh

    I can see faces of team bosses turn red, smoke coming out from their ears and digging even deeper hole where they can stay against Max.

    Than man has to be senile or just complete idiot.

    1. My thoughts exactly.

      I honestly don’t think Max has enough teams to fill up even half of the grid for the FIA Championship next season, so I expect him to try and make up with the FOTA teams. Going to court against them, however, is not the way to do it…..

  224. Fia taking actual legal action against the FOTA teams could be the best thing yet. The suit would be presented in an European Union court of law, not the Motorsport court, which I believe must be biased toward FIA.

    So Max may just get a nasty surprise. Based on the experience of past forays into the EU courts, Max might just get his bottom spanked. And, really, no pun intended there. (Alright, perhaps a small pun.)

    But, then, he may know this and the threat of lawsuit is indeed merely a delaying tactic on issuing the 2010 entrants list. He really IS in a pickle now, isn’t he, to come up with a full grid. Unlike FOTA, which will have no trouble at all fielding 20 to 22 cars. I’m sure N-Tech, Lola and others would go with them.

    And why HAS Bernie been soooooo quiet this week? Someone needs to poke him, see if he’s still breathing. (Prolly planning his escape to a South Seas island somewhere. Lord knows, without the FOTA boys in FIA-F!, Bernie will never be able to make his payments to his creditors.)

    1. I wouldn’t be too sure that Bernie is heading anywhere. He is very wiley and will be thinking of a way out of this to his benefit.

  225. Wow, Mosely says he’ll sue fota. Funny, a couple of days ago he said they were welcome to leave. Now that they’ve taken him up on his offer he’s decided that they can’t leave, but he won’t negotiate them to participate, he’ll use force. I actually hate him for being such a ridiculous facist. He’s taken it so far as to drive them away, but apparently that isn’t enough and he thinks he can bring teams back by dragging them through court. How can he honestly believe that they will want anything to do with F1 when he does this. I can’t forgive him for doing this to the sport that I love and hoped one day to work in.

  226. is he really sueing FOTA? but do they have a binding contract? if they don’t they are all free to walk away after this season. Max mosley thinks the teams are some sort of bonded laborers? i’ll perhaps rephrase it, maybe he thinks the teams are his sex slaves? god damn you max!!!

  227. As far as I’m concerned, the FOTA breakaway series will be the new F1, and the FIA series will be the new A1 or Cart. Hopefully this might mean that we might see some beautifull cars in the breakaway?

  228. Very funny YouTube video. You have to see this!

    1. downfall…how 2008

    2. that video was hilarious.

      Thanks Russell.

      1. especially the comment that Alonso already drives a tank.

    3. omfg!! i’ve developed severe tummyache after watching.the comment about alonso driving a tank.wow!!!

  229. Even the most ardent FOTA supporter would have to agree with Keith in that a ‘split’ is the worst case scenerio for Formula One. However, as I see it, F1 could collapse if the formula stays in its present guise unchanged.
    You basically have a governing body so far out of the loop that it is no longer funny, treating their teams
    that they govern with contempt. As far as I see it, you have the teams so angry and upset at the way Max Mosley
    is conducting himself that they are prepared to go their own way.
    I don’t believe anybody has any elusions. Splitting F1 in two would only dilute the sport rather than strengthen it, in an economic environment so volatile it is beyond belief. Teams such as Ferrari and McLaren know this only too well, but they also realise that for them to continue in F1 Mosley must be desposed of.
    The biggest fear for FOTA is that Mosley stays in power beyond 2009 for another term as FIA president, bucking the trend and defying his enemies as he did after last year’s sex scandal.
    The damage being done to this sport is almost unbelievable. The countless, almost bewildering intervention from the sports governing body has overshadowed the sport for the last two years or more in an unhealthy way.
    Its the one racing series in the world where the officials are talked about more than the ontrack action, and the president has the alure of a circus clown.
    I would love to see F1 stay F1 and for the FIA and Mosley to sink without a trace. The tragic fact is that this is not going to happen. When you have teams such as BMW Sauber and Toyota spending billions of dollars in car development, not even having their opinions heard or respected then you have problems. For all that money spent, the teams deserve the right to have a say in the direction the sport should go.
    At the end of the day, this saga is just going to run and run to the end of the season. You can bet your bottom dollar that Bernie Ecclestone is going to move heaven and earth to resolve the matter, and save ‘his’ championship from almost certain ruin.
    The best way for this to be resolved would be to elect a new FIA president and to do alot of boot licking. Mosley was a fool for suggesting Ferrari were
    unimportant to F1’s future, and for not informing the teams of the 45 million euro a year budget cap.
    They really believe that FOTA are bluffing and that they will eventually bow to their needs. They are seriously mistaken. I will certainly support a breakAway series, if it does indeed comes to pass, just to spite those who caused the split in the first place.
    The bottomline, is that this is not rocket science. Other sports govern themselves just fine, and make a profit that more than one person benefits from, why can’t Formula One?

    1. I’ve just been reading up on the finances behind F1GP, and it is now clear to me that the economic climate is putting the squeeze on the sport itself, causing CVC to put the pressure on Bernie to reduce costs.

      The ultimate UK holding company of CVC’s F1’s interests is an entity called Delta 3, which in 2007 collected a total income of $938m from Formula 1, partly from hosting fees the circuits pay to run a F1 race, which range from $3.75m for Italy to $37.75m for Malaysia (but also believed to automatically increase by 10% every year), which bring in a total of $329m, with a further $380m from media rights. Add in corporate hospitality, which makes $140m annually, and trackside advertising, and you get your $938m.

      On the expenses side of the balance sheet in 2007, the F1 group’s biggest single overhead is payment to the teams of 50% of all underlying profits, making them “equal participants in the success and failure of the series”, said Nick Clarry, CVC’s UK managing director in November 2008. Crucially, he added: “In a worst case the impact on the bottom line is lessened by a reduction of our largest cost item.” Therin lies the clue that drives the current debacle.

      However, and this is the crux of the problem for CVC, is that Delta 3, having doled out $469m to the teams, was left with a similar amount to pay its operating costs and manage the huge loan. In fact, it paid off just $95m of the loan principal and made $260m in interest payments.

      When, 12-18 months ago, the teams started demanding an 80% share of all underlying profits, this set alarm bells ringing at CVC: This would mean an additional $300m annually from CVC. Were this to happen, CVC would have just $200m to cover operating expenses, service the debt and pay off the huge loan. Clearly if the teams were to get their way, CVC would not be able to even make its current loan interest payments.

      And with many tracks walking away from Bernie’s +10% annual fee escalator (e.g., Indianapolis, Montreal, Hockenheim, Imola), revenue for 2009 may decline over 2008 after surging 42 percent between 2003 and 2006. Although Abu Dhabi will pay about $45m to host the season-ending race in November, the injection of government money won’t continue. CVC are clearly heading for serious trouble.

      Add into this mix the collapse of F1 corporate hospitality this year as requests for hotel bookings fell 80% compared with last year for a race in Barcelona and by 50% for the Monaco Grand Prix. Executives don’t want to be seen living it up in Monaco while they fire staff back home.

      A default on debt covenants would put F1’s commercial rights in the hands of the institution that leant the money in the first place, RBS. This a bank that went bust in the 2008/09 financial meltdown, forcing the British government to take a 70% shareholding in it on 19 January, 2009, effectively nationalising it. This would be extremely ironic, given that the British government refuses to invest in even the British Grand Prix.

      The fear of this happening is what started Bernie, as F1 point man for CVC, down the road of cost-cutting. It wasn’t Max’s idea at all. If the teams were to lower their operating costs, Bernie reasoned they wouldn’t have any grounds to argue for 80% of a $938m pie; their current 50% split of the underlying profits between ten teams would give each team, on average, $47m or €34m, a team budget figure suspiciously close to Max’s budget cap…

      All it required was for Bernie to sow the seed of a budget cap idea with his mate Max, and CVC’s debt repayment problems would be solved. Cleverly, in a typical diversionary tactic, Max repeatedly keeps banging on and on about how the current recession means that the manufacturers must be told how much they will be able to spend, lest they go belly up. He makes no reference to the truth that it is in fact the sport that will go bust without his budget cap, not the teams. Such arrogance is typical of Max.

      However, now that FOTA has said it’ll set up an alternative championship (and one that does not come with $2.4bn of debt), CVC’s ability to make its annual debt payments would be nonexistent if 80% of F1’s established participants deserted it, as one would expect to see a commensurate fall in track fees, media rights, hospitality and advertising.

      Williams’ CEO Adam Parr has admitted it is “going to be very difficult to raise sponsorship revenues” in a 2010 FIA F1GP without the pull of the FOTA teams. He insisted that Williams did not regret sticking with the FIA series, because of the money it gets from Bernie and CVC. Obvioulsy he has not yet worked out that this money source is the first to dry up when revenues get tight for CVC, as they will do.

      Of course, ultimately, the FIA’s big mistake was allowing the sale of the commercial rights to a heavily leveraged third party in the first place. They had a right of veto over the onward sale of the rights to CVC Capital Partners and they could have used it, arguing that sale to a company which had to become so heavily indebted to buy the rights was bad for the sport. As indeed it has proven to be…

      As things stand now, if FOTA’s alternative series goes ahead, CVC is dead in the water, with the British taxpayer looking to pick up the pieces.

      1. HounslowBusGarage
        20th June 2009, 8:33

        Excellent analysis. Thanks for the insight.
        If CVC paid $2.4 bn for the rights, who received that money; was it Bernie?

        1. In March 2006 Bambino, Bernie’s family trust, netted $478m from the sale to CVC, but the three investment banks (JP Morgan, Lehman Brothers and Bayerische Landesbank) that owned 75% of F1 which they received by being creditors of its previous owner – the fallen media giant Kirch– – receiving the lion’s share, probably about $1.2bn. But don’t forget that Bernie also sold this in 1999/2000 to the previous owners to Kirch (who also went bust) for about £850m ($1.4bn).

          CVC also bought soon afterwards F1’s trackside advertising and corporate hospitality. These revenues flow into Irish and Swiss companies which were later acquired by CVC at an estimated cost of $350m.

          So the answer to your question is yes, over the years Bernie has received something like $2.8bn from flogging off various rights to F1. So whilst he’s been getting rich, Formula 1 has been getting a millstone round it’s neck, and now the sport can’t afford to pay the teams more than 50% of the total revenue stream, because the bankers are claiming almost as much to service the debt. So in order for it to survive we have to turn it into Formula Cosworth, something that is a long way from Formula 1 and the pinnacle of the sport.

          Clearly, both Max and Bernie have to go and have nothing to do with the FOTA champs.

      2. Can I quote your comments to others?

        I tried to figure out how to link direct to your comments but can only pull up this page with too many comments for someone to wade through.

        1. I don’t think you can set an anchor to link to a specific comment, so your only option is to use copy and paste…

          1. Lehman Brothers??? no wonder F1 is in such a state!!!!

      3. @ Russell,…Williams’ CEO Adam Parr has admitted it is “going to be very difficult to raise sponsorship revenues” in a 2010 FIA F1GP without the pull of the FOTA teams. He insisted that Williams did not regret sticking with the FIA series, because of the money it gets from Bernie and CVC. Obvioulsy he has not yet worked out that this money source is the first to dry up when revenues get tight for CVC, as they will do.

        This is a very interesting and telling piece of info especially when you tie it to the fact that the FIA(Max) awarded Williams the contraxct to build the F2 chassis for the series, which could be a very locrative source of income for chassis and spres for the series.
        Williams should have remembered that when yu lay down with dogs, you wake up with fleas.

  230. I just did read something about tradeamarks. Bernie try to make everybody believe that he owns name ‘F1″ but he does not lol.

    In 2007 cour order says that “F1” is not tradedmark so it can not be owned so everybody can used it as much as they want. Means Fota can have F1 race ..example FOTA F1 race and Bernie can not stop that.

    FIA is stupid if they try take FOTA to court in Europe. EU is not happy with Max and its go back to middle of 1990 allready.

    In 2000 Max even did threat that he will take races out from Europe.

    Funniest part of that was that Eu comission was blaiming FIA and Bernie about braking law of competition and that is what now FIA will sue FOTA for lol.

    This is real Soap opera

    1. kool info snoopy.

      i wonder if the Fota series could be called the official F1?

  231. Dorian Black
    20th June 2009, 6:44

    What a laugh. Who would watch F1 if Williams is your biggest team?

    The leaders of F1 have completely lost touch.

    I hope FOTA is successful. I am sure that with good management within a few years they could easily run F1 out of business, because who are you going to watch, Ferrari vs BMW vs McLaren vs Brawn OR Williams vs Force India.

    I really hope this is a declaration of independence moment, and not just a negotiating tactic.

  232. “What a laugh. Who would watch F1 if Williams is your biggest team?”

    probably you have forgotton that williams were the most dominant team in the 90’s. i would certainly love them to come to the top & dominate the sport once again.
    sad that williams were cast out of FOTA. they are a legendary team, producing some of the sports greatest cars & drivers. it would be good if they jump the ship right now. infact williams have won more constructors title than mclaren. its a pity that they are not part of FOTA anymore. just for the record williams have 9 WCC to mclarens 8.

    1. While that is true, when was the last time they won a race? 2004. The last time they won any titles? 1997. The last time they finished in the top 3 was 2003.

      While they’re doing OK this year, this is not the same Williams of old we knew. They were always competitive when they had manufacturer partners (Honda, Renault, BMW). While Toyota supplies their engines now, Toyota look after their own team first before they do Williams.

      Williams may have a lot of history and tradition behind them, but sadly, they’re not as relevant as they used to be. Williams alone cannot make me watch a FOTA-less F1.

    2. Yes it would be nice to see Williams at the front again. But it would be quite hollow if all theri opposition were b rated teams.

    3. he didn’t forget, he never knew.

  233. had martin brundle crashed this mclaren-mercedes, all these problems wouldn’t have arisen. so i blame martin brundle for the current FIAsco!!!


  234. Just a few quick points to add….
    – I think this is a good time for FOTA to overhaul the technical regs. Unfreeze current engines and derestrict aero as a first step.
    – It will be the fans who dictate which series will succeed.
    – Can we make the first step by referring to FOTA as ‘F1’ and the existing FIA F1 as ‘Mad Max’s ****** Up Formula’ or MMFUF for short.
    – Does anyone own the rights to F.1? or Formula.One? Or F0rmula 0ne (replace the letter O with the number 0)

  235. Hey – I’m talking to a tremendous amount of site owners to discover out if they have heard nearly practically anything regarding the substantial web site engine change which is inside the works? With WP releasing 3 fairly shortly, the phrase on the road is that BE is going to make a ton of alterations that appear like WP changes. Shoot me an e-mail at as soon take heed to a single thing.

  236. Funny thing reading this in 2020

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