Toyota quits F1 after eight winless years

2009 F1 season

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Toyota finished sixth and seventh in their final Grand Prix at Abu Dhabi
Toyota finished sixth and seventh in their final Grand Prix at Abu Dhabi

F1 has lost its third team in less than 12 months as Toyota has confirmed it will not compete in 2010.

It brings to an end the company’s eight-year involvement in Formula 1 during which time it is believed to have spent more money than any other team on the grid.

The team’s F1 future had been widely doubted since Honda withdrew at the end of 2008. Toyota originally entered F1 in 2002 to compete with Honda, which had returned as an engine supplier two years earlier.

Jarno Trulli, Toyota, Suzuka, 2009Toyota joins a host of Japanese car manufacturers reducing their motor racing activity. Subaru, Mitsubishi and Suzuki have all down-sized their rally efforts, with the former quitting the World Rally Championship.

Tyre manufacturer Bridgestone has also decided to leave F1 when its exclusive deal expires at the end of 2010. And the Toyota-owned Fuji Speedway, which was brought up to F1 standards to hold the Japanese Grand Prix in 2007 and 2008, will not be holding any more Grands Prix.

There were rumours earlier this year the team would only remain in F1 if it won a race. That it failed to do, despite locking out the front row of the grid at Bahrain. The failure to seize on that opportunity, and the demotion of both of its cars to the back of the grid at Melbourne – from where they rose to finish third and fourth – may have cost it its F1 future.

It ended 2009 fifth in the championship with 59.5 points. That was its second-best ever year in F1 – its highest placing was fourth with 88 points, in 2005.

Despite its lack of success there were some grounds for optimism the team would continue. Toyota boss John Howett was the vice-president of the Formula 1 teams’ association. He played a major role in the negotiations with the FIA over how F1 costs could be reduced and the team signed the Concorde Agreement committing it to remain in F1 until 2012.

But this desire to bring costs down and commit to the future of the sport has not spared the team. Last month Toyota’s new CEO Akio Toyoda said the company was “grasping for salvation” – given that grim assessment, it’s hrdly surprising its F1 team has been clsoed down.

As well as the hundreds of staff at its Cologne headquarters, spare a thought for Kamui Kobayashi. Just three days ago his impressive performance at Abu Dhabi was praised by the team and he was expected to earn a place in Toyota’s 2010 line-up.

That will not happen, though it remains to be seen if anyone might step in to take the team’s place in F1. If not, it presents an opportunity for Qadbak, who bought the remains of BMW’s F1 team, to get on the grid in 2010.

But the bad news may not be over just yet – Renault are holding a board meeting today to decide on the future of its team. Having been the focus of a major scandal this year, and with no title sponsor for 2010, could it become the fourth F1 team to quit?

Images ?? Toyota

Author information

Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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185 comments on “Toyota quits F1 after eight winless years”

  1. Mussolini's Pet Cat
    4th November 2009, 11:13

    I guess the writing was on the wall when Williams announced they would be using Cossie engines next year.

    1. And this is what happens when you hire people like Mike Gascoyne who waste company resources to inflate their pockets ;) What waste of time!! That leaves us with a Japanese free grid since when? 1984 perhaps? I know honda engine were rebadged Mugen & sold in the mid 90’s. Such a shame. Just when we thought that we’ve found the next big thing. Just hope that Koba lands up somewhere.Could Trulli’s strange behavior also be attributed to this?

      1. Toyota’s most successful years were under Mike Gascoyne, as were Jordan’s, and the title winning Renault (as an evolution from previous years success) had Mike Gascoyne in it’s DNA.

        The only issue I see with MG is that it is “his way or no way!” causing many differences with management. Personally, with his record, I’d give him a budget and 3 years to score the win, and championship contention in the 4th year, if not before.

      2. Terry Fabulous
        4th November 2009, 21:46

        What are you saying!!!
        Gascoyne designed their fastest car and got them further up the grid then anyone else.

        Still it is a real shame to see them off the grid.

        Asian Pacific Races
        South Korea

        Asian Pacific Teams

        Asian Pacific Drivers

        And then have a look at the number of British Teams and Drivers and they may not even have one race!!

        What Gives!

        1. The problem as I understand it with both Toyota and Honda was trying to run an F1 team from Japan by committee – both Gazza and Geoff Willis tried in vain to change their fortunes but it didn’t work.

          I’d have Gascoyne running the tech department of the F1Fanatic GP team in a flash…

        2. What gives is the heritage of the sport to line Bernies pockets.
          Only the fool Max would give a company like FOM a 100year contract..(is that a British thing to give a contract for such a long period)
          So now we are stuck with 5 races in the pacific, none in North America, only 1 in All the Western Hemisphere and 2 races in places that are Deserts. Europe gets the leftovers and only when the new sweeheart deal falls thru and Bernie has nowhere left to go. We may loose Spa, we have already lost France, it is all very very sad.
          The tracks we get now are designed by the great Tilke..its like televised sleeping pills.
          The sport and the teams need to get a hold of this situation and fix it before the sport becomes irrelevant.

        3. How would one go about buying the team?
          Seriously… interested in how the rich go about it…

          One day VJ wakes up and goes I am going to buy and make FI..

          1. Its probably less than you think… in fact I believe most teams get bought (rather than setting up new teams) as they dodge the £25m down payment you have to make as a “new” team (I think?)

            Actually come to think of it didn’t Jordan do a piece on the cost of a team on BBC last weekend on race day?

        4. Asian Pacific Teams

          Force India? I know they are based in silverstone, but…

          1. Terry Fabulous
            5th November 2009, 5:13

            Ah yes of course….
            That was remiss of me.

            Anyone else reckon that Force India was the story of the second half of the year?

  2. Keith,
    From where do you know about the Renault board meeting?
    Mo surprise about Toyota, but sad story for Kobayashi.

    1. I don’t know if it is reported elsewhere but the Reanult board meeting is mentioned in this Autosport article

      1. Hey Keith, can Sauber (or another team) inherit Toyota’s place, now that there in one tea less? Williams can’t block them now, right?

        1. No, Williams was only blocking the suggestion of 14 teams.

  3. Well Toyota have been rumoured to be quitting F1 for a few years now so it isn’t a massive surprise. Although they have blamed the economic climate, which of course had a big influence considering Toyota made its first ever loss, you can’t help but think that just like BMW and Honda before them if they had more on track success they wouldn’t have quit when they did.

    Considering they recently seemed to be seriously chasing Raikkonen and Kubica for next season, I wonder how borderline the decision was, if they could have signed a big name for 2010 would they still be around?

    Also as they signed the Concorde Agreement, and did they also sign something with the other FOTA members, do they have to pay some penalty for leaving F1 now?

    Personally I have always been indifferent to Toyota F1, they entered F1 as a manufacturer with probably the biggest budget of anyone so I wasn’t going to start supporting them because they were the underdogs, and I can’t say I was ever a big fan of any of their drivers.

    On the bright side at least this could mean Sauber will be in F1 next year, I just hope no other teams quit.

    1. I imagine the “penalty” is they forfeit their $50m-odd bond with Bernie (which is the whole point of it in the first place)

      1. The bond, as I understand it, is paid back slowly over the first year or two of competition – basically it was there to deter any wannabe from having a big media conference saying they would be racing in F1 and then not turning up…

  4. This must be why tried to get Kimi so hard for next year.Getting a racer like him might have convinced them to try another year.

    1. I doubt that signing Raikkonen would have made any difference. Japanese executives don’t know their Raikkonen’s from their Badoer’s, all they care about is what will get them the most $$$

      1. I’m quite sure that’s rather true of all executives.

      2. You would think that, but Raikonnen’s popularity in Japan is overwhelming.

        1. Really? I didn’t know Raikkonen was particularly big in Japan.

  5. I suppose it’s safe to say the manufacturer boom is over. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, a strong Formula 1 is made of teams who’s sole purpose is to win the F1 World Championship. It’s good that Williams are no longer alone in this position.
    The FIA must make sure the costs are kept down though, otherwise the independent teams won’t be able to remain in the sport for too many years.

    1. I suppose it’s safe to say the manufacturer boom is over.

      Definitely. All the more so if Renault go too.

      1. After singing Kubica and developing their car since Germany it does seems like Renault are here to stay. Thats a pretty clear statement of intent. I’m not to bothered about losing Toyota but it would be sad to loose Renault now.

        1. Honda developed their 2009 challenger very early on in ’08 and pulled out at the last minute (big whoops), so anything is possible I guess.

    2. Possibility of a new manufacturer team next year – Mercedes-Benz?

      1. Yes the ex-Brawn GP team.

        1. Lol… it would be the best financial decision Brawn could ever make probably. I don’t see it repeating, Im expecting a McLaren run next year with Hamilton title no2 – if McLaren provide him a reasonable car (I don’t think it needs to be the best) I think he could go on to win as many as Schumacher.

  6. The brief era of manufacturer domination in the sport – a mode that was seen as the future just two years ago – is finished.

    Manufacturers are fickle; they always have been. Their behaviour has disrupted and decimated other series like DTM and sportscars because they enter with massive investment, drive up costs, and leave on a whim. Of course, the exception to the rule are Ferrari (the exception to every rule, it would appear) but they at least have the commitment and passion to stick around.

    Thank goodness for the privateer teams. It is much healthier for the large auto companies to provide R&D and engines; that way there’s a sensible return on their investment, a career ladder for staff into the company if they choose, and if they leave they don’t leave an entire team in the lurch.


    1. Ferrari are the exception because (and I stand corrected here due to my limited knowledge of the Scuderia) Enzo’s sole desire was to go racing. As I understand it Enzo only sold road cars to fund his team’s racing efforts.

      1. As I understand it Enzo only sold road cars to fund his team’s racing efforts.

        You are absolutely correct. Enzo sold cars just to fund his F1 team.

        1. Sarcasm or am I really correct!?!

          1. I think your correct, dad told me something like that years ago. :P

          2. I actually liked Ferrari before Todt came onboard. They existed to race & deeply appreciated their passion & honesty. So no sarcasm intended there.

          3. I used to like Ferrari too (despite having been loyal to McLaren from the time I started watching F1) but I just couldn’t stand them while Mike Shoe ws behind the wheel. Now I can’t look at a Ferrari without thinking of that smug cheater. Damage done!

          4. Jeeez, can we not have one article that doesn’t deteriorate into F1’s equivalent of Godwin’s law?

          5. Correction @ GeeMac

            Now I can’t look at a Ferrari without thinking of that 7 time WDC.

          6. Sorry David A, I will never be able to forget Adelaide 1994 and Jerez 1997…Smug cheater it shall remain.



          7. No, you were dead right.

            Enzo Ferrari was a racer through every bone in his body and every drop of blood in his veins. And he hated drivers who were in F1 solely for the glamour and the big money.

            The salaries paid to F1 drivers today would make him revolve in his grave like a wild camshaft !

            I wonder what he’d make of Tilke-dromes and places like the Yas marina circuit…

          8. @pSynrg

            lol I like Godwin’s law

      2. The old saying in Japan was something like ‘Toyota go racing to sell cars, Honda sell cars to go racing’.

        But I think those days are over now, all Japanese TNC’s have one purpose- to make money. Even Ferrari are only in F1 because they’re a business- the romantic notion of selling cars to go racing died a long time ago…

        1. Colin Chapman did the same thing with Lotus.

    2. Thank goodness for the privateer teams

      Totally agree with that. I used to think that the big manufacturers gave the sport some extra credability. My view of F1 has completely changed since summer. F1 would be better off with just privateer teams who only want to race and let the FIA make the rules. Mosley must have a big smile on his face.

      1. I would watch formula one for as long as these three teams exist.


        The rest are noobies :P

        1. dead right mp4! its the history thats part of the reason im obsesed!

          bernie is slowly ruining it, i think he is trying to re-write the books with his name on the cover, f1 by bernie.
          and he is doing a good job at turning it into a show not a race.

    3. …because they enter with massive investment, drive up costs, and leave on a whim.

      Well, they certainly drived up costs, but revenues also. Small (?) point is when two guys, take half of the revenues and put it into their pockets, and start to tell the manufacturers how to manage their on strategy and business.

      My personal view on this is FOTA born too late, the damage to F1 was already done and I’m afraid it’s more to come.

      On the other side, some people is praising the return of “the Independents” as the solution.

      Well, I can hardly call them “independents” when they will be running a Formula full of technical restrictions and financed with Bernie’s money formula:” two plus two are not longer four, but five; five for me and minus one for you”.

      But what really amazed me much more is those people saying “Max was right”.

      Oh yeah! The thief giving some advice to the victims: “You will have to reduce costs for recovering what I’ve stolen you, my friend”

      Formula One have been seriously damaged and the New Concorde Agreement is just the same than giving a cancer patient an Aspirin to recover.

  7. We all knew this would happen when the Manufacturers came in – throw money at it, then realise it’s actually very difficult and money itself cannot gaurantee victory, then then pull out leaving much higher costs. I’m just glad the only ‘real’ privateer team left (Williams) is still here. Just.

    Shame for Kobayashi also. Maybe if Raikonnen doesnt sign for McLaren Whitmarsh will give him a try? Imagine the overtaking power of a McLaren with Ham & Kob :-)

    1. Yes, but it’s been clear for a long time that you have to get the basics right. To a very great extent, the Japanese manaufacturers have never understood that. The only exception was Honda, who did eventually learn the hard way that you need three vital components.

      1. A top quality team leader who knows the sport inside out and usually has a proper engineering backgound ( Brawn, Gascoyne, Head, Symonds…interesting they’re all Brits isn’t it ? )

      2. Base operation in the right place, ie., where the best pool of really good engineers are based and all the myriad hi-tech support businesses are near at hand. ( Like er…… central-southern England ??? )

      3. Make damn sure that, basic budget considerations apart, the F1 team is completely autonomous and not subject to interference by the dead hands of senior management commitees.

      Even the very powerful German manaufacturers know that you go where the talent is.. and where are the current best engines in F1 made. In UK !

      Toyota never got any of that right. QED.

      1. Even the very powerful German manaufacturers know that you go where the talent is.. and where are the current best engines in F1 made. In UK !

        errr… I wouldn’t say that for Ferrari, even though it is not the current best engine but they were once upon a time.

        But you could rephrase that a little and say that Talent is where the money is. And for many of the teams the most appropriate place for that to occur is in the UK.

        If you are talking about best engineers and scientists and intelligence and talent in the world, well im afraid that is not only in the UK, but.. maybe read some engineering and scientific publications and you’ll find out? :) enjoy.

    2. thats not tue AA, look at ferrari, from monaco 08 to monaco 09 it was reported that they spent over 600million pounds,

      and they are a team, who you can almost be certian that they will win something

  8. Ouch. Not good news. I hope Kobayashi is picked up by someone. Bye Bye Glock & Trulli.

    1. Bye Bye Glock & Trulli

      Glock is reportedly going to Renault… why when there are better drivers available, I don’t know.

      As for ‘The Train’, can’t say I’ll miss him, especially after his ridiculous tantrum at Brazil (although quite funny) and the drivel he came out with at Abu Dhabi; “I’ve got pictures with me to prove it”…!!

      1. Never liked Truli, living proof that just being a quali specialist just doesn’t cut it.

        My fav bit of commentary from Abu Dhabi was when Brudle told us that the teams actually put the Truli train into their simulators.

        1. I thought that was hilarious too !

          1. Trulli will join the long list of Ferrari test drivers….

  9. Bet [mad]Max feels more vindication…

  10. They wont be missed by me, they had no passion at all, just an expensive and fruitless advertising campaign run by arrogant businessmen with little interest in the sport who made a series of poor decisions. Their place on the grid is likely to be very quickly filled, hopefully by Sauber, but it’s a surprise Toyota didn’t do better to be honest – not only because of the funds and resources available, but because in the past they’ve had success in Rallying and Sports Cars.

    Lets hope Renault don’t leave too.

  11. Toyota were such a mess of an F1 team anyway. They spent hundreds of millions of dollars on F1 and they couldn’t even muster a single win. I can count 10 teams who have won while Toyota have been in the sport, often on a fraction of the budget like Jordan and Toro Rosso.

    I found it significant that the team could never really find any fans in Japan, which is usually so patriotic that it supports all its teams and drivers. It shows how passionless, corporate and boring they are. I won’t miss them

  12. What a shame. Another bad reactionary decision in my opinion. I thought all the teams signed contracts to continue in F1? So can we expect the FIA to be waving contracts in teams faces and threatening fines? Surely Toyota must no that F1 is not an overnight success sport…

    1. Reactionary?

  13. Should Toyota and Sauber merge?

    I started a forum thread. You could do worse than a team with Ferrari engines and Sauber’s history, with a driver lineup of Quick Nick and Kamakaze Kobie.

    1. yeah, sounds good!
      only I am not sure what exactly “merge” will mean in this case…

    2. I was thinking the same thing about Heidfeld and Koby ajokay!One to charge through the field and one to bring in the steady points.

  14. Seems like Mosley was right…

    1. It was some unusually accurate thinking. Max himself declared the privateer days finished not long ago, telling Frank Williams his team had no future in F1. I wish I could find the bloody source!

      The problem in F1 are the losses. Too many sections of the sport are just bleeding money. Toyota could not continue, neither could Honda, or BMW. Williams operated at a loss since BMW left, and it almost finished them off – they would not have made it in 2009 were it not for Bernie & their subsequent hard work.

      Clearly, last Summer Mosley saw the writing on the wall. There’s still things that don’t make sense in F1; certain GP’s for instance, like Yas Marina are only possible in the La-La land of the Emirates states; there is no conceivable way they are making any money. How many other GPs are operating at a loss? I’ll bet most of them are. It’s silly.

      There was a telling story in the papers recently about Brawn’s troubles with staff, in that promised raises were not forthcoming; the most high-profile of which are Button’s stalled negotiations. Now, Ross Brawn is a pragmatist. I expect he’s happy to pay what the market will support. There’s a clue in there, and F1 needs to follow suit.

      1. yes, and in Jackie Stewart’s most excellent autobiography ‘Winning is not enough’ he talks about how proud he was the Stewart Grand Prix always operated in the black and paid for it self.

        ‘For all it’s glamour and wealth, the reality ithin the F1 world was then, and remains now, that many individuals and companies are vulnerable and finacially fragile. Some of out staff joined SGP from F1 teams simply because they had complete confidence thath we would pay them at the end of each month; as everyone knew only too well, that didn’t always happen’.

        In Financial terms, the company made money in every single year and never, ever went into financial overdraft at the bank. If Pual an i were proud of our financial acheivements at PSR, this to us, was some event more exceptional. To have run an F1 team and to have stayed out of the red, and for the company not ton have any equity partners, that may well be unique.’

        Interrestingly upon selling SGPto ford, for which it was to become jaguar and then RBR, Jackie makes an insighful comment on incompetent coporate governance of an F1 team, even befor they have taken over.

        ‘The period of transition was not entirely stress-free. Ford personal began to hang around the pit during practice, shaking their heads.
        “unbelievable, unbelievable”, on of them kept muttering.
        “Excuse me”, i would say. “What is unbelievable?”
        “The way this team is being run is unbelievable”. And this from someone who knew nothing about the sport as far as i was concerned…..

        Someone once n oted Ford’s handling of Jaguar Racing was typical of a large multinational organisation trying to run a corner shop, and failing because succesive CEO’s simply did not appreciate the ins and outs of the business. It summed uo the increasingly disappointing situation quite well.’

        Sorry for the large quotes, but i felt as an 3 time WDC who setup a team from scratch, it was a goo insight into the financial stress of F1, and corporate governance of an F1 team. oh, and a must read IMHO.

        1. Agreed. I actually started reading that book last week and it is a truly fascinating insight into the life of a true legend of the sport. Reading what he says about the GPDA with him and Graham Hill and Clark etc… what I would give to be a fly on the wall at one of those meetings…

        2. No apologies necessary. That book is awesome, and my admiration for JYS’ values is higher than ever.

    2. Mosley, as everyone seems to have forgotten, courted the manufacturers and prevented privateers from joining F1 only a few years ago. That’s why the 50 million Euro bond for joining F1 was started.

      Then a few years later he’s all about “we need to reduce costs blah blah blah.”

      Hmm, yeah, that really worked out well there, didn’t it Max?

      “Max was right” is, unfortunately for the employees of the departed teams, completely wrong.

      1. HounslowBusGarage
        4th November 2009, 15:39

        I agree Charlie, Max invited the manufacturers in after all. But then he realised that they were not easy to push around, and that their continuance in F1 was dependent on corporate profits elsewhere, and he started to want the manufacturers out.

        1. The thing is a lot of F1 probably wouldn;’t have to operate at a loss if all the money it generates wasn’t being sucked into some mysterious black hole. Especially the circuits. If CVC an Bernie wern’t there Silverstone would have been renovated years ago.

  15. What’s the situation regarding their replacement? I thought the whole point of Qadbak was that they would replace any team that pulled out, but could Toyota ‘do a Honda’ and sell their team?

    1. I think Toyota have the option of selling first (please someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong)

      1. Honda’s history dates back to Tyrrell. They are a team based in Brackley. Dunno if Toyota are interested to sell their European base in Cologne to anyone. It seems highly unlikely.

        1. Tyrrell was never based in Brackley, it operated from an old wood yard in Ockham, Surrey. The link between what is now Brawn and what used to be Tyrrell is pretty vague – BAR bought the team in 1997 but set up its own headquarters in Brackley, which is where Reynard (BAR’s technical partner) was based.

          Honda’s history as an F1 team goes back considerably further than BAR and Tyrrell.

  16. Kovy may also have trouble as he was linked to be moving there, Trulli has nothing now to wait for he may as well just sign for Lotus. Glock will be aprehensive, Toyota have pulled out and his chances at Renault it doubt now they are holding this board meeting.
    I agree with Ned that I won’t really miss the team, but I feel immensely sorry for those losing jobs.
    Teams coming into F1 should commit for the long term, this year has been one of the most unstable in F1. It shows that it doesn’t matter how much cash you can throw at the sport you have to commit and approach it in the right way. Not for image or just trophies but because you genuinely want to be in F1 or teams will dabble and pull out and more jobs will be lost.
    I don’t think Renault will go or maybe that is wishful thinking. They have won before and I’m certain they can win again and they have got through the Singapore scandal now and survived.
    So now engine suppliers are Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault and Cosworth.

    1. And I had applied for an opening at Toyota F1! Bless my lady luck ;)

      1. Really mp4? Very sorry that hasn’t worked out then.

  17. So now engine suppliers are Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault and Cosworth.

    That depends if Qadbank use BMW engines and are allowed in. Or have BMW pulled their engine support now?
    If Toyota sell their F1 team, will their engines go too?
    Honda left no engine choice for other teams.

    Anyway, no ones going anywhere in race 1 until they find someone to supply some tyres. :D

    1. Ferrari have said they’d supply ‘Sauber’ with engines for the 2010 season if they make it that far.

      1. Yep your right and Toyota have said they will not supply F1 engines for another team next year too.
        So that does leave just 4.
        Mainly Cosworth engines, hardly any Manufacturer teams, multiple race winners per season…. It’s like the 1960’s all over again.
        Do we have a new golden era of F1 approaching?

        1. Do we have a new golden era of F1 approaching?

          Only if Todt does it right.

    2. Plus romours of McLaren buying BMW’s engine division

      1. Not anymore. BMW said it wont be sold.

        1. Wonder then if the rumours will go or will Mclaren simply look elsewhere to help them produce their own engines.

  18. I have said it once and I will say it again… F1 doesn’t need manufacturer teams. The motor manufacturers should build engines and leave racing to true racers like Frank Williams.

    I personally would rather have loads of “independent teams” on the grid whose sole aim is to excel in Formula 1 than have a massive motor corporation on the grid because it wants to gain advertising exposure.

    Toyota were always a team that was devoid of passion and it always seemed that at the back of the R&D lab there was an accountant keeping an eye on exactly how much of the massive budget was left…not exactly ideal conditions to run a team in.


    1. F1 doesn’t need manufacturer teams. The motor manufacturers should build engines and leave racing to true racers like Frank Williams.

      Couldn’t agree more. These manufacturers can showcase their “BIG EGO” elsewhere!

  19. Kinda sad
    I guess Kobayashi won’t be racing
    I was looking forward to seeing him next year.

    The drivers better watch their money and spend it wisely, things are getting tough out there

  20. The Sri Lankan
    4th November 2009, 12:30

    I have been rooting for the red and white cars with that blue Panasonic Logo. This is not the end of Toyota in Motor sports Lemans is the next frontier and a very safe bet for toyota. i can hold my head up high even now knowing that i made the right decision in supporting Toyota all the way till the end – a Massive TOYOTA FAN!

    1. Never knew Toyota had fans! Let alone Ralf :P

      1. Neither did I! What’s there to like about Toyota??

        1. The Sri Lankan
          4th November 2009, 22:41

          Flanders you are a troll. try to move outside your mums room and think for once with that minute brain of yours that TOYOTA being the biggest car manufacturer in the world may have atleast a few thousand fans. this may-be a joke to everyone but TOYOTA leaving F1 is a big hit to the way the sport is run..whos campos, manor and USF1? do these teams even contribute anything to the world of automobiles? soon F1 will be like Champcars

          1. Er… that’s a bit rude. You big ugly ape

        2. ” What’s there to like about Toyota??” Well, speaking only for myself, I won a Panasonic Viera LCD TV in a competition they were running at the Melbourne GP about 2 years ago, so I had a bit of a soft spot for them after that !

          But that’s it. That’s the highlight for 8 years of racing. Pretty poor epitaph. And I sold the TV on ebay :)

          What I am mostly annoyed about is that Toyota signed a legally binding contract to race in F1 until 2012. If the teams choose to ignore the Concorde agreement, then why should Bernie or the FIA honour their side of it. I might be old fashioned, but I always thought that contracts were binding, and furthermore should be honoured.

  21. Noooooooo!!!! Kobayashi!!!!!!!! :'(

  22. Kobayashi could yet get a drive in one of the new teams of course.

    I doubt Sauber will take him – they already have Heidfeld and Klien on their books.

  23. Sad for the workers who will lose their jobs.

    I won’t really miss Toyota, though I hope Kobayashi gets a drive. But I’m not jumping on the anti-manufacturer bandwagon. Frank Williams has shown that privateers can be just as intractable and an obstruction to progress, and the fate of the Jordan team is as good a reminder as any that they too can just up and leave. The fact that there are apparently doubts over “two” of the new teams (most articles never go into detail, though it’s probably Campos and Manor) is further evidence against the idea of bad manufacturers/good independents.

    The only real difference I can see is that the independents aren’t as ready to leave because of bad results, but ultimately the black/white designation of the situation by Mosley and others is over-simplistic.

    1. Jordan didn’t up and leave for the fun of. They left because of the spiralling costs caused by the manufacturers. He simply sold up before he went bust

    2. Some of them race first for the racing. If they can get enough sponsorship to support the program, that is good. If they are successful then they get more sponsorship and life is good/great. The mfg’s and the BOD’s are what is putting the pressure on for the results. Timelines cannot be set in stone for racing like they can for mfg, there are to many unknowns every season.
      What team other than Ferrari, has been based outside of England and been successful in F1? I cannot remember any team, and by successful, I mean has won multiple races and challenged for either the contructor or driver championship.
      I say good ridance to all of the mfg’s that arent in the sport to advance their own technology and develope parts that will eventually make it into their road cars.
      Toyota, BMW, Honda, and now possibly Renault gone. Maybe we will get back to the great times of F1, but only if we are rid of some of the non racing personalities that are involved in the promotion and running of the sport.

      1. What team other than Ferrari, has been based outside of England and been successful in F1? I cannot remember any team, and by successful, I mean has won multiple races and challenged for either the contructor or driver championship.

        Your point is a sound one, although there have been a few examples. French based teams have had some success – Renault challenged for titles in the early 1980s and Ligier won races in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Jackie Stewart’s first title came in a Tyrrell-run French Matra chassis. Dan Guerney took single victories for All American Racers and Porsche but they don’t meet your criteria. The old Alfa Romeo factory team didn’t have any notable success beyond the 1950s.

      2. 1950 Farina won the first WDC in an Alfa Romeo
        1951 Fangio won the WDC in an Alfa Romeo.
        1954 Fangio won the WDC in a Maserati/Mercedes-Benz, (he swapped teams half way through the season)
        1955 Fangio won the WDC in a Mercedes-Benz

        Other than that you’re probably right, although there have been non-UK based teams they haven’t achieved much.

        1. You both get my point. I mean in modern times1960-2009. I dont give alot of hope to USF1 now that they are going to stage up in Spain.(Nothing against Spain) It is that the Mecca of F1 racing is in England and I dont see that changing. If someone buys the Toyota team the first thing I would do is move it to England as well as Sauber.

  24. Sensible for Toyota, bad for F1..
    Even more so since the first time i can remember they have a very fresh driver who looked able to take the car beyond its limits.

    Surely Kobasmashi will get a drive next year!

  25. Like others here I feel sorry for Kobayashi, but as for the team I am less sympathetic. Toyota spent billions in F1 during the boom years, and never looked like a winning team then. All this business about winning a race to stay for 2010 just shows how pathetic these people are.
    In the long run, when this economy turns around, these teams that walked away will seriously regret their decision as Formula One goes from strength to strength. I really think now that Renault will be gone within the week too, which would be disastrous for Robert Kubica.
    The reality, sadly for F1, is three engine suppliers for all the teams involved, which would still be two more than the IRL have.

  26. I heard, they will be Asian F1 championship. No surprise the withdrawn of Bridgestone, Honda, Subaru and other Asian team motor sports company. Wait and see

  27. Jhonnie siggie
    4th November 2009, 12:42

    It might be cheaper for toyota to sell the team rather than simply leave so this does not necessarily mean a place for saber

    1. Problem is, who would buy it?

      From what I’ve read, part of Toyota’s problem in becoming a winning team has been in getting the staff it needs to relocate to Cologne.

      That said, I would rather see someone buy up Toyota F1 than have the (reportedly questionable) Quadbak involved in F1.

      Question: Is Peter Suber still a shareholder in BMW Sauber now Quadbak have bought it up? Could he take the Toyota operation off their hands..??

  28. Toyota never added much sparkle to the scene but the loss of Bridgestone is very serious not only in itself but also for the air of uncertainty which may persuade others to give up. Grave times ahead

  29. I was just thinking that if the Renault board decide to pull the plug on the F1 team Kubica would have lost a drive twice in the same year because of a decision by the board of a major motor manufacturer… that would surely be a first! ;-)

    1. Glock would have almost done that, Toyota didn’t resign him but then they pulled out anyway and he is rumoured to be close to a deal with Renault.

  30. Kobayashi is going to have alot of calls from new F1 teams or even currently established F1 teams!
    He put on a good performance with Toyota, He deserves a drive next year! Same for glock.

  31. A big part of Toyota’s problem, assuming they do try to sell the team, is their location in Cologne. I’m told that running a workforce in union-led Germany has it’s own challenges – as seen during the team’s enforced two-week break over the summer.

    I’d be surprised if Renault left right now. They were let off pretty lightly by the sport for ‘crash-gate’ and a part of that was in the hope they’d stay. It would be a bit of a kick in the sport’s nuts to leave at this stage and would damage their standing in world motorsport further (bearing in mind that they provide for GP2).

  32. I’m not surprised to hear about this, because it does seem a reasonable decision under the circumstances.

    The potential of selling the team could be a challenge, but theoretically, for an investor from the Germany, Beligum, Netherlands kind of area, having a team stationed in Cologne could be something worth thinking about.

    There might still be a chance for the team to take up some other racing project, though, for example a Le Mans comeback that has been in the rumor mill just as long as the “might they quit Grand Prix racing” story.

    Otherwise, this might actually be a piece of positive news for the former Sauber team.

  33. I am absolutely gutted for Kobayashi!! after his 2 races he is definitely my new fave driver and was really excited about seeing how he did next year (actually the same i felt about Glock after 2008 season!) I feel sure he’ll get a drive as seems to be a great driver with a bit of ‘spirit’ – something that has been seriousley lacking in a fair number of drivers this season. I would LOVE McLaren to snap him up instead of Kimi!

  34. Prisoner Monkeys
    4th November 2009, 14:02

    Great article, Keith. The perfect lead-in for the guest article I just submitted.

    However, I disagree with the notion Renault will withdraw entirely. Red Bull are looking to use their engines for 2010, and I do believe they have a contrat. If Renault back out, I think they’ll stay on as an engine supplier.

    1. Guest article? Brilliant can’t wait to read it!

      1. Prisoner Monkeys
        5th November 2009, 2:34

        Hopefully you’ll be able to soon.

  35. Just when i thought Kobayashi was going to surprise us next year :( Really hope he gets the drive.
    The idea of a racing driver that did that well and if can’t get a drive goes help is father at his restaurant takes “privateer” to a whole new level..

  36. Looks like We now understand what Max Mosley was upto….

    Smart of Kimi not to negotiate with Toyota. :)

  37. Oh please,Stop this Koba BS,do you know how many test laps he’s put on that Toyota,compare to the kid in the Rossi or the guy in that Renault.

    1. How many test laps did he put in? When?

    2. koba drove better than buemi has done and buemi got a fair bit of driving the 2008 car before the season.

      1. Kobayashi is driving a car that took 2 second places in recent races. Buemi isn’t.

    3. Indeed.

      Also, Nakajima was 10th in his first race (substituting for Wurz) and 6th in the next one. Does that remind anyone of another Japanese driver?

      Now people can’t wait to trash Nakajima and Kobyashi is the new hero.

      The old adagio: “you are as good as your last race” is running wild again.

      1. What difference does their nationality make? I’ve no clue why people keep bringing up Nakajima in comparison. Those race positions are called coincidences – no rational connection. If you a see one mediocre British driver, will keep bringing him up when the next British rookie comes on the scene?

        I think that all you Kobayashi bashers are just frustrated because a rookie showed Jenson up two races in a row.

  38. My favorite team out of f1, that’s too bad :(

  39. Why not consolidate and focus on supplying engines for a couple of years? You still stay involved in the sport, still get worldwide F1 exposure? Hasn’t anyone learned from MB’s example?

  40. So now we have our 3rd manufacture Pull out. Leaving Ferrari, Renault owing teams. Mercedes and Cosworth as engine suppliers. We may get to a point where everyone is a team and the manufactrues are just enfine suppliers (execpt for Ferrari).

  41. Be careful what you wish for. Privateer teams are even more susceptible to short term financial pressures. Do you really want a situation where you do not know which teams are going to show up for the race every weekend?

    1. no kidding. people seem to forget (or never knew of) the long, long list of teams that have come and gone.

    2. Not saying I wish for it but this seems to be the way it is going. I dont want to see it.

  42. Glad Howetts gone, what a ghastly oik he was. Heres my crap car. Right i want more money, more power or we’re off to form a rival series

  43. In reality the steady trickle of desertion is more the result of a war against the big car manufacturers by those who managed the sport, than the effects of the economical that affected Formula 1 over the last years. In Christie’s detective novel the guilty person is only discovered when everybody else is dead, one after the other. Do we want to wait until this happens or should we write Formula 1’s book with a different closing chapter?

    From Ferraris website

    1. never mind the lousy translation, what a strange thing for a multi-billion dollar company to say.

      1. Yes…do we hear the sound of axes being ground/ old scores being settled ? Don’t think there’s ever been a more highly tendentious/politicised figure in F1 than Senor di Montezemolo. Every word he ever speaks is always loaded with political posturing. And we must never forget that he always speaks for the mighty Fiat empire of which Ferrari is just a small but significant part. ie ….what’s good for Fiat/Ferrari must be good for F1…or else !

    2. That’s probably the same idiotic editor who wrote the GP3 nonsense and the attack on Williams.

      1. HounslowBusGarage
        4th November 2009, 20:40

        I often wondered if it was just some weirdo with access to the content management system or whether it was real, Ferrari Approved comment.

  44. Let’s see, 7 years at roughly $500M per sounds like a $3.5 billion dollar investment. Anyone care to do the math and calculate the cost per points they won??

    Devastating. As for Mfg involvement and Renault leaving, I don’t think they would announce Kubica and then cancel their season. But if they left, it would mark a wholesale return to the roots of F1, entrepreneurs who care about the sport and are independent of “factory” commitments. Kick out Mercedes while were reinventing the face of the sport and let’s start from scratch.

    In hindsight the fact that Glock and Trulli were both looking for drives tells me that they were given the message that the future here is uncertain, look elsewhere for a racing seat.

    1. Assuming a total spend of 3.5 billion, Toyota paid:

      $12,797,074.95 per point

      $25,179,856.12 per race

      $269,230,769.23 per podium

    2. I see no reason why you would want to kick out Mercedes, as although they own part of McLaren and are looking to purchase a stake in Brawn, their model is closer to the traditional engine supply role of the manufacturer rather than running the whole team.

      While Trulli and Glock may been told in private what may happen, when it was announced earlier this year that Toyota’s F1 budget would not be approved until mid November, I think one of the bosses at Toyota publically said Trulli and Glock should look for drives elsewhere as Toyota wouldn’t be able to decide on it’s drivers until then. Also if Toyota had decided not to quit I don’t think they would have kept both drivers.

  45. Actually its too bad. However, this is what you get in a global recession. Manufacturers are responsible to their board of directors and ultimately the shareholders rather than FIA, FOM or even a sporting fan base. Is Renault next? Yeah, I think the Reggie is on the way out. Leaving Ferrari. Mercedes as an engine manufacturer and supplier but that doesn’t begin to match the investment needed to do an entire team. We will be back to the “garagistas” as Enzo used to say. Can someone clarify for me please? I do believe that I read somewhere that either Bernie or Mosley predicted the withdrawal of the manufacturers. (Maybe it was Frank Williams! lol)

    1. Thanks Tommy, hope they don’t go but it doesn’t seem to good right now :(

    2. posted the same thing :(

      i was really looking forward to see the new less hidious renault next year. i hope they stay, or at bare minimum remain an engine supplier.

    3. Renault is Alonso and Alonso is Renault, one cannot exsist without the other. Alonso is gone to Ferrari where he will get chewed up and spit out, but Renault will no longer be around to take him back.
      It is a sad day.
      (I say this all in hope)

  46. at this rate we’ll be back to 10 teams before we know it

  47. Renault have no sponsors,no ‘superstar’ drivers,and a serious lack of credibilty still hanging over their name.The writing is on the wall.

    1. Kubica isnt a superstar? honestly?

      anyway, i was considering where Kamui may end up, and since he came through FormulaRenault, i thought that was his best chance at a race seat next year. I think he’d be a great pairing for Kubica. In fact, just as good as a Vet/Web or a But/Ros.

  48. As long as F1 races at places like Abu Dhabi and not America why would any manufacturer stay in?

    ‘It’s the markets stupid’

    A sad day indeed.

  49. Kubica isnt a superstar? honestly?

    Honestly! Unless you also think that Heidfeld is a ‘superstar’?

    But that will not matter one jot to the ‘number crunchers’ of your average motor manufacturer anyway.

  50. I’ve just heard that Renault is reconsidering their F1 entry. There was an emergency board meeting today in Paris. Subject; The team’s future in F1…..

    1. There were 3 options discussed during the meeting today;
      1. Stay as a team
      2. Stay as an engine supplier
      3. Quit F1

      No outcome is known at the moment….

      1. I’m thinking maybe outcome 2. I’m hoping outcome 1.
        With regards to Toyota I think if they ever got their win it would have delayed this not saved them. Maybe a win would have gave them more momemtum to carry on form but that’s still a long way off seriously challenging for a title. Their best year was this year with the big teams at the back and things started so promisingly…

  51. So if it’s true that Toyota would only remain in F1 if it won a race, and you believe Pascal Vasselon about Spa,

    However, he believes that an unprecedented chain of events at the Belgian grand prix – when front-row qualifier Jarno Trulli hit Nick Heidfeld’s BMW Sauber and broke his front wing – was the main reason for this.

    “That race was my biggest frustration, because Spa was for us,” he added. “Jarno was the fastest there and we should have won.

    By crashing into a BMW Sauber in Spa, Toyota took themselves out of contention for the win, leading to their exit from F1, and opening a grid slot for Sauber to come back next year. Spooky!

  52. Very sad news about Toyota. They at least had the cajones to start a team from scratch, even if it hasn’t paid dividends. Unfortunately, not the smartest move, it seems.

    And so the Manufacturer’s depart again, advertising mileage achieved, if not on-track success. I’m rather tempted to say “good riddance”, but the fact is that they leave a gaping hole in the sport – one which shouldn’t exist. Thanks to Blarney and Sadomax (aka B&S), all we’re left with is some slapped together teams, some mainly existing as leverage for Mosley, one (hopefully) genuine team in USF1, and another Marketing Team calling itself Lotus (but really Malaysia Tourism) entering the sport.

    This is a great shame for the Minardi’s, Super Aguri’s, Arrows’ and Sauber’s of this world (run well or not), and a great shame for the F1 – and it ain’t over yet. Does anyone think that Red Bull can still look at itself and say it’s worth running two teams when all other Marketing Teams are running for the door? We’ll see soon, I expect….

  53. Maybe he should sing “your only as good as your last race” Patrickl, unless you meant adage rather than adagio? ;)

    As the much despised (not by me) Max Moseley said about 3 years ago when he was fighting off another mutiny by jonny come lately mass production car middle managements:- “the manufacturers will be here for as long as it suits them and then they will go.” Well he is right of course and i will be glad when every last one has gone. People like Howett make my blood curdle, all righteous indignation but cant build a decent car given an absolutely obscene amount of money…and they had the cheek to want more HA! Take Renault with you and dont come back.

    And to extend the argument, Red Bull will pull out the moment things get tricky in their core business. Yes they have done far more for the sport than Toyota could dream of and can win races but be under no illusion that they will not hesitate to jump….which would be a shame.

    1. if you think that’s bad, what do you think flavio put in his pockets?

      i think red bull will stay for a while, but not str. with a 2009 season to be very proud of, red bull isn’t going to run away to it’s skateboards and rocket-powered whatevers.

  54. I doubt that the demotion to the back of the grid at Melbourne played any part in this decision. The mediocre middle part of the season might have played more of a part in this.

    However, I’m glad that F1 is back to its roots. It is just sad that Kobayashi might not get a seat next year, no one is really going to miss Toyota. The age of manufacturers is coming to an end, and sanity is returning to F1.

  55. I thought Toyota was a sausage making operation; Spend $ 500 mil/year, travel the world, crank out an ugly car every year, keep everyone employed in Cologne,look busy when the japanese comes around, have a nice travel coach, never win a damn thing;oh and everyone follows this fellow Trulli around the track until he crashes(he always does) or the car breaks down, which brings me to the sausage making operation back in germany…. start all over again.

    1. The least they could have done was to go out with some flavour. They should have changed their stupid livery at least once, like what Honda did in 07. People remember such strange liveries. 25 years down the lane no one will remember Toyota even raced in F1.

  56. Great news!! Now a real team (Sauber) can get a slot. Toyota proves that you need passion, not business savvy and morons on a board to survive in F1. People who by that Lexus LFA get the failure that is Toyota! :P

  57. Goodbye Toyota. I hope they come back in few years time.

  58. The one crumb of comfort for Renault is the fact that their engines are still in high demand, and were a proven success in the hands of Red Bull in 2009. At the beginning of the season, the omens were not good for the team, having to change the nose of the car following a crash test failure in testing. The car looked horrible long before it got to race in Melbourne, and was even widely condemned as the worst looking of the 2009 spec cars on this very site.
    As for the team themselves, the constant rumours surrounding Fernando Alonso’s future plus the debacle with Piquet Jnr surely critically holed the teams spirit during such difficult times. One has always got to ask the question, that if Renault was such a happy ship, why did Alonso leave in the first place back in 2006?
    As for not having a star driver, I believe they have a very promising prospect in Robert Kubica. The guy has endured a terrible two years with BMW Sauber, and is hungry for a chance to prove himself. All the better, I would suspect, to have a driver in the car grateful of the drive as opposed to a driver measuring up for some shiny new red overalls.
    As for the remnants of Toyota, Kobayashi is definately a driver who stands a very good chance of a drive next season. Jarno Trulli and Timo Glock are experienced, but the trend in F1 at the moment is to sign young blood as opposed to veterans. Personally, I hope somebody buys up the scraps of Toyota F1 and does a better job than the Japanese mark. As unlikely as that seems.

    1. high demand? If there were no limits Renault would have no demand, an engine that sucked before they were allowed to catch up in 2009, and then blew up in 2009. No wonder everyone wanted a Merc engine.. No one wants a Renault engine… some are just stuck with the crap.

      1. Choltz, you know what? Renault engines were a class of the field from 92-97. Total domination. Mercedes sucked for a long time, remember those day when they coughed up every few feet? Now after all these years they somehow find reliability & decide to jump ship. And I completely agree that manufacturers instead of completely pulling the plug should stay back to supply engines.



  59. Toyota F1, may she R.I.P

    However, Koby will get a seat somewhere. I think Toro Rosso should dump ALG and take KOB.

  60. I wonder how European people felt about Japanse car maker, when they heard Toyota’s irresponsible pullout.

    Even though Toyota have signed up Concold agreement, they broke it! It’s a shame.

    It is Toyota that stared spending astronomical money for F1. Toyota’s headhunting way made driver and engineer’s salary much higher than before(Who had ever paid scuking Ralf for 10 million dollar before Toyota did!).

    Toyota is sereiously responsible for the budget problem now F1 has.

    1. Totally agree! Toyota redefined F1 budgets. Wasted money like hell. Who can ever forget Mike “the bulldog” Gascoyne?? His Toyota deal was upwards $8 million per year!! Even Adrian Newey isn’t paid anywhere near that sum! And RALF?? Its a ROLF to be honest :P. Total waste! They deserve this.

  61. I fell so bad for Kobayashi.I pray he get a chance in one of the new team.So next season we are left with 3 manufacture in F1.Ferrari,Mercedes,& Mclaren.

    Max will be very happy when he see this as this is what he wanted.Toyota should have gave one more chance.

    Lets see what the Renault decides.

  62. I thought if Renault were going to jump ship, it would have been in the wake of Crashgate. Surprised that they appear to be considering doing so now, considering they had survived the fall out from Crashgate, were planning next year’s car & had signed Kubica. I wonder if the Nissan connection has anything to do with it?

    But if they were wanting to foster some sort of Japanese following or presence, what better way to do than to sign Kobayashi?

    1. what better way to do than to sign Kobayashi?

      That means Kovi is screwed!

  63. How do you say “Thanks Toyota” in Japanese?

    1. “Arigatou Toyota” It means”Thanks Toyota”in Japanese!

      …but I have nothing to Arigato Toyota.

      1. トヨタはありがとうございました!場合は、少なくとも&最もつまらない議論はF1の歴史の中でチームになった。

        Thank you Toyota! You were the least controversial & most boring team in the history of Formula One.

        1. This is racing & this is what happens when you have all this corporate bull s&*t! It goes to show that F1 is still an European sport. You might have all the money,resources,engineers,wind tunnels etc But without passion all of it counts to zero. Toyota never had any flavor. They raced to sell more cars, they never raced to win. All the best to USF1 & especially Malaysian “Lotus”.

          1. >They raced to sell more cars
            I totally agree with that!
            Toyota is not popular among motor sports fan in Japan.

        2. トヨタはありがとうございました!場合は、少なくとも&最もつまらない議論はF1の歴史の中でチームになった。

          This Japanes doen’t make sense at all.
          It’s just like my English…

  64. It doesn’t seems to be coverd in UK that Mr. Yamashina cried and said “Toyota will help Kamui(He is called more Kamui than kobayashi in Japan) and Nakajima to get F1 seats next year as much as possible.” in the press interview yesterday.

    ↓He cried in front of TV camera.

    He feels so sorry to especially Kobayashi that Toyota can’t give him the chance next year, even though he showed his great talent in Abu-dabi.

    Kobayashi’s family business is Sushi-restaurant and before the Brazirian GP he said that he was thinking quiting race and become sushi chef, because his GP2 performance was not good and doen’t have enough money to keep driving.

    Now that there is no Toyota, how can Toyota supoort Kobayashi?
    I beleve Mr,Yamashina’s teras are not fake.
    Let’s wait and see.

    (Kobahashi’s home is not far from Suzuka, If you have a chance to visit Suzuka it would be good idea to visit his Sushi restaurant if he was going to make sushi.)

  65. Schumacher Junior was always more Rolph Harris than Bomber Harris ( apologies to non english or colonies who wont under stand this “joke”

    1. Colonies?

      Bomber Harris was a murderous tyrant.

  66. it’s too bad.
    they have a good combination at the last race.
    kamui kobayashi did well before toyota f1 resigned. :)

  67. It’s too bad FOTA didn’t move forward with their plans for a breakaway series. Car company teams closing down, more interesting and historic venues off the calendar. Darkness is spreading. All of this could’ve been avoided. What is F1 coming to? Looks like the end to me. Honda, BMW, and now Toyota can take their marketing dollars back to the States and do IndyCar, for now. As for venues, now we’re into the State Sponsored-Tilke track era. What’s next? The Grand Prix of Egypt? And with Bridgestone leaving, another cost-cutting/ grip reducing opportunity looms on the horizon. My darkness lifts in a few hours. Good night and good luck.

  68. i refer K to Colonel Melchitt of Blackadder fame when summarising the german spies: “filthy hun weasals, fighting their dirty underhand war”

    ..and the english spies: “splendid fellows, brave heroes, risking life and limb for blighty”

    Its all a question of perspective old boy

  69. I dont think there is a problem saying the best talent and mindset for F1 teams is in the UK or England actually. Just as the best talent and mindset for mass producing cars is in Germany & Japan. Italy does style better than anyone and France arrogance (only kidding).

    Seriously though, Britian excels at small scale engineering hence why a tremendous amount of the worlds products from the industrial age and beyond originated in Britain but hardly any are still made or owned by UK companys. Not all but a disproportionate amount. The trouble Britain has is scaling up to become a world player. F1 is perfect, you build one car and its job done.

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