F1 Fanatic round-up: 17/3/2010

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Today I’m going to an event run by Codemasters where I hope to find out more details about their “F1 2010” game for PS3, Xbox 360 and PC. If there’s anything you’d particularly like to find out about it please let me know in the comments. Here’s the round-up for today:

Links

Schumacher return a big hit with German TV viewers (Reuters)

“The seven-times world champion’s comeback race was watched by an average audience of 10.5 million Germans on Sunday, compared to the 5.3 million viewers the season-opening event attracted last season.” I wonder how many of them took notice of the German driver who was leading the race?

Getting rid of aero in F1 – the counterargument (James Allen)

“Frank Dernie, one of the leading F1 aerodynamicists for the past 30 years, has sent me this note, arguing that the "overtaking problem in F1?óÔé¼?? is not the aero, but the mechanical grip from the tyres and the lack of mistakes made by drivers on gearshifts due to semi automatic gearboxes. He advocates manual gearboxes and rock hard tyres.”

Comment of the day

Here’s a great bit of thinking from Jim N:

With people still going on about the poor performance of the new teams I thought I’d check on the first outings of the established teams.

Ferrari, Monaco 1950, 4 cars , +1 lap, +3 laps, DNF, DNF
McLaren, Monaco 1966, 1 car only, DNF
Red Bull (originally Stewart GP), Australia 1997, 2 cars, DNF, DNF
Mercedes (originally Tyrrell), Germany 1966, 2 cars, +1 lap, DNF
Force India (originally Jordan), USA 1991, 1 car only, +6 laps not running at finish
Williams, Spain 1977, 1 car only, +4 laps
Renault (originally Toleman), San Marino 1981, 2 cars, DNQ, DNQ
Toro Rosso (originally Minardi), Brazil 1985, 1 car only, DNF

The current crop of new teams seem to be in good company!

Happy birthday!

No F1 Fanatic birthdays today. If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

The FIA issued a double whammy rules change on this day last year by announcing the budget cap proposal for 2010 and claiming the 2009 championship would be decided by whoever scored the most wins. In the end neither proposal came to pass.

Author information

Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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68 comments on “F1 Fanatic round-up: 17/3/2010”

  1. Theres only one thing i want to know about the F1 game, most stuff ive read about and it seems cool, but is there anything they are adding so we can customise helmets for our own driver in career mode? I was thinking like the Forza 2/3 car livery customisation, but for helmets.

    (trivial i know)

    Thats all. Thanks!

    1. That reminds me Keith, I remember reading somewhere that you are going to a codemasters event about the 2010 game and was wondering if you could ask them if in the new game you can feel the effects of turbulant air or not.

      1. Wow should have really read the first paragraph!

        Sorry about that but theres my question.

        1. I was just about to post the same thing! :-)

      2. Considering what we saw on sunday…..

    2. please, no, don’t ask that question. Honestly.. of all the things that could go wrong with this game you are worried about helmet customisation? Oy.

      1. will there be a safety car? as well as proper drive-through/stop-go penalties?

        1. And post-race penalties. Really important that they include post-race penalties. :P

        2. Yes. There should be a Safety car. And the damage has to be improved a lot. The only thing i can brake in F12009 is a wheel, the front wing and put the rear wing shaking up.

      2. Its an amazing idea and you know it!!!

        I’m sure Codies have everything else under control. I have faith, even if F109 was crap.

    3. My only question about the F1 video game is this:

      As the single player campaign mode progresses, does Max Mosley begin to appear in the menu screens, threatening to turn your PS3 off if you play the game for more than 40 hours per month, at which point the player must respond by threatening (via a new political-posturing game mode) to purchase an alternative racing game?

      1. If only he would force a budget cap on the games price eh?

        Hallard you would be a funny guy.

  2. keith, any idea when the forum will be back up?, im dying to start a rant about aero again.

    1. This frank dernie is obviously overlooking other racing catogories, like gp2, soft tyres and restricted aero…. lots more passing than f1. Take this to the extreem and the theory carries through, motorcycle racing for example…. Barely any aero (because its not possible) and very soft grippy tyres = lots of passing. Its the obvious solution, but i know there are going to be others too.

      1. Actually Dernie is right, about the aerodynamic grip not being the problem as such.
        Total grip (aero and mechanical) and lack of mistakes is a big part of the reason for not having much overtaking.
        What kills the drivers getting a go at overtaking is the cars now being very dependant on Aerodynamics for their speed, so if they lose this when following a car, they have no real chance to overtake.

        Sure, giving less grip from tyres, making drivers do manual gearchanges with cluches, giving them less efficient brakes all help in forcing drivers to make mistakes.
        As do spraying the track with water, having drivers change the wheels themselves etc.

        But is that really what we want from F1?

        To a degree it is good to limit some things to being relevant to road cars and aerospace(KERS, Hybrid, limited groud effect, small Turbo-engines like McLaren uses in their new supercar, some aerodynamics, miniturization), but electronical driver aids (ABS, ESP, traction control, active suspension, …) are part of that as well.

        So we have to get a good balance of this being a sport where the best car combined with the best driver (best – quick, intelligent, taking risks but not overdoing it too much and being able to react to changes), while at the same time not losing too much into costly high-tech to get the 0.01 second improvement.

        Compare with swimming, where the swimmers
        are actually glad to get rid of the high-tech full body suits breaking all records, to get real swimming where the sporter and his training is central to succes.

        1. Less efficient brakes, yes I agree we shouldn’t need to bring back. However, I would love to see them forced to use clutches again. That’s a huge part of driving and I think it’s only fair to include that element as a test of skill and consistency.

    2. Why not just join in the discussion with everyone else here:

      Bringing back refuelling will not solve F1’s overtaking problem

      1. Good idea, can you move our comments over there?

  3. Here’s the comment i wrote on James Allen’s blog about overtaking:

    There are so many different theories as to how to make the racing better it can make your head spin. Change the tracks! Ban the wings! Make tyres softer.. NO make the tyres harder! Ban refueling… oh crap no we want it back! We need mandatory pitstops… no that’s BS let them choose whether to stop or not.

    I don’t think anyone really knows exactly why things are so bad. But this is a huge problem and it needs to be improved. The powers-that-be (i.e. Jean Todt, Bernie, Hermann Tilke, all the team principals and lead designers, and the drivers) need to get together and find a solution. And if/when they do, they need to put the fans first and give the fans what they want.

    1. you said it,fans first

  4. I love JimNs comment, fabulous. Such q shame we can’t pass it on to the established teams, and one Mr Coulthard!

  5. Expect the groundstand seat to be full in the German GP

  6. I’m popping along to the Codies event too, cannot wait to see the game in action!

    See you there Keith.

  7. Safety cars…do we finally have a game that has them?

    PLEASE!

    1. Yeah, rFactor has had them for ages.

    2. They had them on the #PSone games.

  8. Yeah it’d b great with kers boost as well,i dont reckon they’ll include it though.

  9. Dernie makes a good point, but understates the problem of turbulence massively. Sure, cutting aero in 1983 didn’t produce more overtaking then, but they didn’t have semi-automatic gearboxes back then either. I do think we need to go back to manual gears, and do something with the tyres (either make them chunky and hard, or make the ones we have now softer), but the shift from dependence on aero to mechanical still needs to be made. It doesn’t matter how great braking distances are if cars can’t even get close to each other. And may someone remind Dernie of 1998, when grooved tyres were brought in to increase braking distances, and what happened then?

    1. Mr Dernie understates the problem cause it would put him out of a job in f1. Go make a spaceship or something.

    2. Actually, thinking about it, we wouldn’t need to make the tyres harder if total aero was drastically reduced, because the things Dernie says would happen from having harder tyres would happen in that situation as well.

      Of course, as the poster above me says, Dernie is hardly likely to ask for the removal of aero…

  10. To me the cars seem 2 well balanced ie v rear end needs 2 be a little looser. I had thought that v massive front wings and little rear wings would help this but then with reduction of front tyre width will even v balance out again.But then again Bernie likes things the way they are,so I don’t think things are going 2 change.Pesonally I dont ever remember since I ve been watching F1 a lot of exciting races.Of course u get v odd exciting race. Thats just the way it is.

  11. How about some info on the Career mode. I’d love to be able to take a driver and race multiple seasons.

  12. Lehonardeuler
    17th March 2010, 4:18

    About the manual gearboxes and harder tyres: Imagine F1 in 2011, in HD tv showing high-tech cars with manual gearboxes. Something’s wrong…

    Right now we have:
    Engine freeze. Wich basically places all engines on the same power figures, which also works agains overtaking. Also, a faulty engine keeps the same and cuts down it’s team chances.
    Testing freeze. The team on fron in the test stays on front during most of the season.

    Harder tyres? Harder than now? 11 sets for a whole weekend, under any circumstances… I mean, they could be even harder, but what for? Tyre endurance? Maybe then races should be made longer…

    Aero rules: In my view, the new regulations just go the oppossite of what they pretend: Reducing rear wing width and moving the front wing outwards is just to ensure airflow on the front wing of the following car, but just if it stays right behind it. What about moving aside to overtake it? Downforce falls apart, as drivers say… and it’s even more difficult to overtake than before.

    KERS: A very good and somewhat useful idea, that the fia got so wrong.
    Just 6.6sec of KERS per lap, and 80HP? That’s so low! Bring it back for the whole race, but with a limited amount of energy, like KERS for 40% of the laps, so drivers can use it wherever they want and choose to push with it for many laps straight.

    Refuelling: Maybe it’s a good idea to remove it to experience with weight balance and so on, but it should have a backup plan if it all gets predictable and dull.
    Tyre rule for qualifing: Who on earth will ever qualify on the harder compound and start further on the back, and then be destined to overtake no-one in the whole race and ruin their strategy? We’ll see no-one in the front to go for it with the harder tyres this year.

    I believe the more variants to the race we have, the more chances of not having a boring show.

    Anyway, I doubt some good racing in some time… maybe if 1.8L turbo are brought in and not being limited, with more open aero regulations (and maybe a new kers, also), we could see some interesting stuff.

    1. Lehonardeuler
      17th March 2010, 4:23

      I meant KERS energy for 40% of the whole race distance, or maybe 30min or so… Not restricted to a fixed amount of time/energy per lap, but for the whole race. So, a driver can choose to use it at the very first laps for a stint, or in the mid-race to overtake some rivals, or keep a position. But once you’ve used it all, hope the other car doesn’t have any left.

      1. I’d rather see KERS limited only by the amount of energy trapped. Let the teams decide how they want to run them.

        Don’t cap the output power or duration artifically. Give the teams incentive to innovate.

        1. exactly, KERS was a chance for F1 to develop something relevant that could have significant commercial spin-offs such as williams. They should have allowed more freedom for the bigger teams, whilst the smaller teams had access to cutomer packages

  13. Keith, can you find out this info for the game?:

    – Do we start as a new team and build from there or pick an existing team?

    – Are races going to be full race distances?

    – Is there a buildup series system a la Forza 3 ranging from Class E to S and so on or is it straight up F1?

    – What kind of customization is available for the cars performance? Is there development periods just like in real life or do you just buy them as upgrades?

    Those are the ones I’ve thought up off the top of my head. Maybe if I come up with more, I will ask. Otherwise, I await your info! Thank you!

    1. Hi Bien,

      I can answer a couple of those for you.

      – According to the developers there will be no feeder series as it is not part of the original deal and would take too much code to support. (http://community.codemasters.com/forum/f1-2010-game-1316/409479-10-03-developer-introduction-post-update.html)

      – Concerning the customization, there will be car updates along the season, which will be developed by the teams the season progresses. If you outperform your teammate, you will achieve a kind of team leader status, which will allow you to have a say in development and have your car fitted first with new items. (Source: The Official Xbox Magazine). If you want I can mail you some scans of the article.

      1. Seems like a good idea there…. at least they are trying to be innovative!

      2. Thanks for the answers, Z!

        1. To answer you question on full race distances. It seems likely, as you could race full distance in Championship Edition.

      3. Not really the “Masters of Code” that they claim to be then! :P

  14. Those numbers of German viewers are a bit fabricated – last year season opener was in Australia in early hours of morning so casual fans weren’t up to see it. If they want to compare it to last year they should have compared it to Bahrain race…

    1. 2009:
      5,39m on RTL = 42,3% market share

      2010:
      11,62m on RTL

      2006 (with MSC):
      9,41m on RTL

      http://www.quotenmeter.de/cms/?p1=c&plus=on&p2=1&qry=bahrain&x=0&y=0

  15. Will the pit-to-car radio be more interactive than in F12009? Because in F12009 the radio was saying always the same. And will pit walls be all equal like in F12009 or each team will have is own pit wall with its own painting?

  16. The Comedian 39
    17th March 2010, 9:20

    How about drivers move around mid season? And customisable liveries with a sponsor list, like GRID & Forza.

    Oh i could go on…

    1. Customisable Liveries wont happen. Its most likely that Codies will have a contract saying it’ll produce all the cars exactly how they are now, sponsorship revenue etc off the teams. I was reading that they had to get special permission off Ferrari to move the out board mirrors in board so they would actually be useful.

      1. The Comedian 39
        17th March 2010, 14:07

        Well… hopefully we can create our own team.. and allow driver movement etc.

  17. The Bahrain Grand Prix ‘rate the race’ poll is closed. After more than 6,000 votes it scored 4.587/10, lower than any race last year, the worst since Valencia 2008.

    Rate the race: Bahrain

    Valencia was least popular race of 2008

    1. I don’t think Bahrain 2010 was in the same league as Valencia 2008. I just think that everyone got so hyped up because of the new teams, the driver lineups, Shumacher and so on.

      People expected it to be the most exciting race ever, but in reality, this track will never produce a super exiting race. Not to mention, some of the drivers were being overly cautious because they had not gone race distance with race fuel in that kind of heat.

      It was more of a let down than a super boring race.

      1. Agreed, however to me this was also the case for Valencia, when I saw that track for the first time and heard that a lot of overtaking was expected, I couldn’t wait!
        …so this year when we had a new section in Bahrain where a lot of overtaking was expected, I couldn’t wait.

        (It also helped that Michael Schumacher came back, Alonso next to Massa at Ferrari, Jenson next to Hamilton, Vettel ending last season on a high, new teams entering the sport, proper qualifying, subthree second pitstops and no refuelling)

    2. bahrain 2010 was on the same level as abu dhabi 2009 in terms of actual racing…

  18. Ok, I don’t have the funds to get a PS3 nor a X-BOX, and my PC couldn’t run such a modern game, but, I could push my brother into getting it, (which I’ve turned into an art) and therefore, I have valid ideas,

    First, F1, in terms of manager games, struggles, GPM2, is very good, but, It is dated (1996), and even (Lord?) Ian Woolams mods can’t go much further I think.

    The possibilities for a manager game are endless, And if they were tied to a driving game, like this, with a good AI, It could become a hit with others who think like me.
    (this could expand together with the driving part to create a truly great game)

    On the driving side of things, A better damage model would be good, But to explain what I want most, I must tell a story!

    My favourite race on a game of all time, was on rFactor, at Indianapolis in a 1988 March, I was doing really well, I had got a good position in qualifying, up in 9th, which as my car was down on power, I was happy with. On the warm up lap I was aware of the tyres cooling, but I really couldn’t do anything about it, When the safety car pulled of I found I had gotten a good start, and by the 3rd lap I had moved up to the 2nd group of cars. The Mclarens had bolted into the lead, and Mansell, The Lotus’ and the Ferrari’s were doing well. Most of the race went quite calmly, there was a hiccup when I almost overshot my pit box the first time I pitted, but I was lucky that time.

    I was going quite well, as I managed the fuel quite well, so I was able to run quite long, a few laps more than the nearest cars, because of that, and a few retirements, I was up in 5th nearing the end, behind the Mclarens, Mansell and Piquet’s Lotus.

    I then looked in the rear view mirror going around the first corner to check that I wasn’t being caught, I thought I saw smoke, At this point I check back in front quickly, I wasn’t far from another car (I think it was an Arrows) and thought it was coming from him, you see if he slowed down suddenly, I could be in trouble ^^, after another lap I (finally) realised that it was from me, I slowed down, trying to save the engine, I was so close to the end, 3 (I think) laps to go, My lead to 6th wasn’t great, but after that the gap was very satisfying, anyway, I lost sixth quite quickly, as I had slowed down a lot, I had been driving for almost an hour at this point so I was keen to keep it going and finish.

    Last lap, 7th was close now, I was really nursing the car, Hoping (almost praying despite my agnostic religious preferences) that the car would hold, Then on the back straight, the car stuttered, and then a few seconds later, I lost power, I rolled to a stop and stopped on the inside of the track, at the start of the final corner of the race, I lent back, and I will quote my exact word “Bugger”.

    That was a long story,
    What I tried to show, Is that from the atmosphere the game created, allowed me to really fell I was racing, The work I was doing mentally to nurse the car home, watching always the cars passing me, unlapping themselves, trying not the overuse the engine watching the tyre temperature drop, watching the gap to 7th, made me physically tired afterwards.

    That was a great experience, it ended up that I was classified quite high (8th), as many cars were at least one if not several laps down, so it wasn’t so bad in the end. but the experience, the atmosphere, the feeling I got afterwards, almost like a calm, was gratifying beyond words.

    Oh I recently came 2nd at Spa ^^, (3rd untill I happily saw one of the Mclarens stopped on the side of the track)

    So what do I want? It is not important to have top of the line graphics, 2009 had that and the impression is that it wasn’t anything special, What we need is detail, we need wind turbulence, tyre temperature’s, A damage model that includes gearbox failure (most retirements in F1 races are Mechanical failures are they not?) We need to have a pitlane where you drive though it, and if you overshoot or miss your marks the stop takes longer as the crew has to shuffle along, we need all the little stupid things that many wouldn’t think of, I’d like to get a punture after I hit a gravel trap.

    Tech wise, all these are well within our grasps, it will only take a company to actually take the time to do it.

    Now a few other things that I would like, but I don’t think are critical,
    -A career mode with AI drivers moving teams, where the player CAN find himself like heidfeld if he A) does badly or B) is unlucky. With perhaps (this is a bit more out there) an invisible relations system, say, If you knock too many Ferrari’s out, they might be less disposed to sign you. As a rookie you could get a seat in Renault, but over time you have to improve if you wanted to keep it (Ala Piquet, Bourdais, etc etc.

    -F1 World championship on my N64 had me race as hill in 97 hungoring, and Ralf in germany on a charge, that is a good idea for a challenge mdoe, as it is more relevant than any gamey idea’s i have seen in other games (2002 on Wii for one)
    The problem here is that they must wait untill later in the year to release it, so I think it won’t happen.

    I consider myself the type happy to do 50 laps to get an extra 2 tenths, So I would like to be able to do so.

    Thanks for reading if you got this far! I’m going now… honest ^^

    1. Holy rattlesnakes in a sausage factory
      that was a long post.

      Seriously if anyone actually reads it I’ll buy you a present, socks seem popular these days.

      1. Only made it to the third paragraph
        Sorry :(

      2. I’ll take argyle, thanks

        1. I had to skim read through that. So I wouldn’t have taken all that in.

          1. I read it and I agree completely!

            Brilliant post. I’d love to see all those small, unpredictable things that happen that can completely mess up a race.

            And the challenge mode on F1 World championship on the N64 was great. (I think I got 98, I could never get the last two points for the Jerez 25 point-er).

            Anyway a challenge mode like that would be good.

            Actually I’ve just thought of a “Classic” mode they could put into the game where you could race as Jackie Stewart of Graham Hill or Ayrton Senna etc., on some of the old circuits like the old Monza, Spa, Hockenheim.

            Maybe that’s asking a bit too much aswell, but here’s hoping!

          2. Classic modes are always thwarted by FOM management, simply put, the makers aren’t allowed to do it,

            F1 06 on ps2 has some old cars, but apparently It took a lot of effort for them to be able to do that.

            Oh and in my defence…. I was quite ill last night, in fact, I didn’t remember doing this, not a bad read, good on me ^^

    2. That is the best recollection of a game experience I have EVER read. I agree totally with all your points, you sir are somebody I would get along with.

    3. I like the career mode idea and the mechanical failure ones too. It will definitely make the game more real and show that F1 is more than just racing.

  19. Is the F1 game coming out in the US? It would be a shame if it was Europe only… I see the Wii version going for 60-80 USD.

  20. Does Codemasters licence cover other FIA formulae??

    If so then how about if they include a feature in the career mode, (assuming there is one!), where younger drivers from lower series get to graduate up in the ranks, while other drivers in F1 get to move around to different teams.

    There could be a “transfer list” of drivers for you to select from.

    Also, in career mode, would it be possible to have the races in a different order each year, while adding in a new race for a couple of the seasons aswell.

    While I liked F1 CE, I found it to be a bit monotonous every time a new season came around and we’d have the same drivers, in the same teams, on the same tracks.

    It was a bit like Groundhog Day sort of…

    A little bit more variety would be nice.

    And as others have said, safety cars are needed.
    Also, if a car is set up with a high or low downforce setting, the graphics need to reflect that aswell.

    Hope I’m not asking tooo much……

  21. Can you ask them if they’ll send me a free copy? ;)

  22. Two things Kieth
    Will the game be as moddable on the PC as the simbin titles? Be a shame if it isn’t – there are some awfully good modders out there. Plus one should be able to add new tracks etc.

    Secondly I always felt the previous F1 titles didn’t really get a handle on the physical sensations felt by a driver – or their effects at least. Vibration, bumps, g forces and the like all have a perceptible ‘visual’ effect that can add a whole lot to the immersiveness…

    Envy you – wish I could be there for the event myself :)
    Cheers

  23. Food for thought… thanks Jim N….

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