New York F1 track plans revealed – Jersey City bids for 2012 night race

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The plans for a New York Grand Prix have appeared online after an environmental pressure group criticised the project.

A 5.79km (3.6-mile) circuit in Liberty State Park has been designed and the organisers are hoping to emulate Singapore by holding the Grand Prix at night.

See the 2012 New York City Grand Prix plans in full below.

Update: The mayor of Jersey City says he doesn’t support the plan. More below.

The proposal says:

With the incredible backdrop of the New York City skyline, selecting Jersey City for the 2012 Grand Prix Auto Race Circuit will not only boost ticket sales as the Grand Prix returns to the United States, but will providing striking television footage. To maximize the dramatic effect, Jersey City could possibly follow in Singapore’s footsteps by holding the finals at night.

Pictured below is a generic circular circuit through Liberty State Park, which covers a distance of 3.6 miles, the area would provide the least impact to city functions, and the greatest possible space to accommodate ticket holders. As the park has 1,212 acres, with a significant portion dedicated open space, amble viewing facilities can be erected, with the potential to hold the largest spectator audience on record.

There are multiple ways to carve out the interior to make the course challenging with tight turns, great straights, plenty of options to place the pit, run off zones, team facilities, media center, and of course the paddock area.

However the planned space for the track to be built in looks distinctly cramped. Where is the room for the pit and paddock in their diagram?

New York F1 track proposal - Jersey City (click to enlarge)

The organisers point out this is just a preliminary idea for a circuit. Here’s the area they’re planning to build in:

View Larger Map

The organisers also expect Formula One Management to do a lot of the work including:

Planning, developing, logistics, marketing, and all necessary preparations to effectively carry out
the event.
Structures for media center, paddock and VIP areas, temporary meeting rooms, security control
tower, pit areas, team facilities, clubs, visitor welcome center, hospitality tent, and all other
necessary structures.
Providing ample portable facilities for visitors.
Obtaining all the necessary permits and licenses required to hold the event.
All equipment needed to stage the race as well as staffing.

It would be unusual for FOM to get so deeply involved with creating and running a race. But after 40 years of trying to get a race in New York perhaps Bernie Ecclestone is prepared to give a little more to get what he wants. On the other hand, it may just be a very optimistic plan.

Friends of Liberty State Park have criticised the plans, saying:

Whomever has proposed it to Formula I has no clue about the true purposes of LSP or about the park’s history of battles to protect public access. LSP is not a city property to rent out for the weekend and take away from public users who need it more than ever for the quality of their lives. LSP is a park for the people and is not a commercial venue. It’s arrogant for anyone to consider this use for our green haven.

Do you think the proposal is realistic? Read the plan in full here: Proposal for Jersey City Grand Prix (PDF)

Update: The plan could be dead already – the mayor of Jersey City says he doesn’t support it.

Read more: Ecclestone still chasing New York dream

Author information

Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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167 comments on “New York F1 track plans revealed – Jersey City bids for 2012 night race”

  1. Looks nice. But does it have to be at night?

  2. A night race in America is stupid.
    Normally, the justification for night or twilight races has been to cater to European viewers. If the race starts at 8pm, it’s 1am in the UK and even later in Europe.
    For people in Asia time zones, its a Monday.

    Having a daytime race makes sense.

    1. Yeah I wouldn’t care if it was 1am Sunday morning, but Monday morning would see virtually everywhere east of America tune out.

      1. Start the race at 6am and race into daylight!

  3. SciF1Droid
    4th May 2010, 8:47

    Doesn’t look like the track bodes well for overtaking, maybe one overtaking spot, but everywhere else looks like it’ll be a procession.

    Agree with the night time comments, great spectacle as it would be the time zone would make it illogical… Jim.


      This plan is a joke! It has to be, seriously. Most of those streets are 1-2 lanes wide (just zoom in), either they are going to pave 3-4 lane road everywhere around there (OMG, zoning will become a nightmare as half of NYC will probably be at the zoning meetings, it will likely take 3-4 years if zoning meetings in other states are any indication). I really doubt this plan is going to have a snowballs chance if they are going to place is somewhere this undeveloped and this contentious.

      But honestly, I wonder if Bernie chose this location and the organizers chose to make the terms so unpalitable that he would never want to do it in the first place. Although honestly, those terms are pretty similar to other terms that cities/states put on events that are hosted in the US, especially when the organization is demanding so much money to hold the event.

  4. The tracks looks quite natural and fluid. Nice.

  5. When I read “New York F1 track plans revealed” I do expect a bit more than what´s presented here.

    1. Is that a criticism of the story or their proposal?

      1. Thank you Keith for taking the information available and present it in a structured article.

        The track does seem to be somewhat of a sketch only without thoughts about viewer areas, pit boxes etc.
        I suppose this is only an offer of the opportunity available drawn after looking at google maps, not a track “design”. It uses a lot of the existing roads, but i think they would have to use some more of the infield for facilities.

        The night race idea sounds bad. A midday race would be timed better in Europe as well as in Asia.

      2. i think he means the proposal is a bit shabby at this time.

      3. I am disappoint of their proposal. Looks like it has been “designed” in 5 seconds. Not worth calling it track plan.
        “NY F1 track designer reveals colour of his felt pen”

        1. Honestly I for overtaking etc I think just using the purple road would be simply better would possibly give two overtaking spots. On the proposed track layout I see no obvious overtaking spots and as well pointed out where are they planning for pits etc?
          Consider this is a park with grass and trees I just don’t see either how the teams can bring in all gear etc and setup without trashing the place if pits will be as traditional on the inside field of the track. Idea of it is cool I just don’t see it plausible without to much destruction and all. But either way if race do happen there I would be there.
          Further night race? Does this mean quali on Fri and race Sat? Because due to timezones a late evening race would be very late Europe time. Not that 1am is badly late but still on a Sunday that means your not to bed until 3am or so on Monday. For me asian races works great with a start of 1am night to Sunday which allows me to sleep in on Sun.

          Just don’t seem very well thought out at this point and many things unanswered and not worked out at all just someone sketching on ideas more then reality.

        2. Vintage 68
          4th May 2010, 18:24

          Read it again. It is NOT a track design, just a “generic” idea of a track

    2. Same here. I thought it would be something like this:

      (dreaming) Where the track runs along Central Park, and weaves through the sky scrapers… (/dreaming)

      1. Prisoner Monkeys
        4th May 2010, 11:36

        The roads in Central Park are waaaaay too narrow for Formula 1, and there’s no way you could get them widened.

        1. They are not really that narrow. What about Monaco? At least these ones are straight?

      2. I thought I recognized that track. It is from Gran Turismo 4.

  6. I doubt Bernie would like them to run this at night. That would put the race time beyond midnight in Europe.

    1. perhaps ‘night’ could include evening, so a 5pm start would be 10pm. (i’m guessing 5pm would be getting pretty dark if the race was held in october/november…)

      1. Alternately, a night race on a Saturday night perhaps? It would be a change for F1, but not unusual for America and would come closer to being a decent time for Europe

      2. Assuming that the NYC race would be some time mid-summer (roughly when Canada is now), ending at 7pm would not qualify as “night”. It’s still early evening then.

        What I think would be really interesting is an early AM race, like 7am local. Seeing the sun come up over the city would be pretty interesting.

      3. Oct avg high 63°F, avg low 47°F, mean 55°F
        Nov avg high 52°F, avg low 38°F, mean 45°F

        I would say Nov would be pretty chilly in NY area esp for a evening race. Sun set is between 6:30 and 5:50 in Oct, 5:50 and 4:30 in Nov.
        (I like the layout of the Grand Turismo map ;) lot of long fast straights with heavy breaking zones, just don’t see it as possible to shut down those streets for a week or even just for 2-3 days with as heavy traffic they run)

  7. Who knows, they might run it on Saturday!

  8. There would be some nice views of the Statue of Liberty while going down the eastern straight, as well as Manhattan in the background in the corners in the north-east part of the track.

    As others have pointed out, running at night puts it in a bad position for us in Europe to watch.

    1. Actually Joe Saward had some think about it after reading the first information and gets more or less to the same conclusion as you.
      From what he writes, the location would be pretty good, having Ellis Island and New York in the background, a promenade with view on the hudson, a centre for showcasing technology use etc. Sounds like a good combination with F1.
      Send the critics to have a talk with Melbourne locals, and the only big issue remaining then is money.

  9. HounslowBusGarage
    4th May 2010, 9:07

    Bernie’s idea for the 8pm start is not intended for Europe’s convenience – it’s to make sure the entire US is able to see the race in comfortable hours. 8pm in New York is 5pm in LA.
    Obviousely, the track planning itself is at very early stage, so there’s no point commenting on that, but what’s the large structure top right of the track? There’s a huge car park and then either sheds or blocks of something; what are these?
    Bottom right, it does look a bit like a street track through an industrial park.

    1. Now THAT would be a switch if Bernie actually is setting a time that is convenient for the North & South American audience. No I don’t think that is the reasoning at all to be honest. If so why is Canada at None local time (9am pacific) and Brazil 2pm (8 am pacific). Far from ideal times for the western US/Canada. I sure hope that there might be some of it what your saying and that whom ever holds the race not only push FOM to provide a lot what is mentioned in Keiths article but also push for times that are good for North American audience and a date that will not clash with existing race categories in the US (Nascar & Indycar).
      Provide prime time coverage time that is not in direct competition to Indycar but especially Nascar because I know what race will suffer the most (and it’s not Nascar and probably not Indycar either for that matter).

  10. What surprises me about this proposal is that when we ran a “design an F1 track” competition here two years ago one of the winning entries used this same piece of land!

    Track design competition winners named

    1. But that track was designed with more racing ideas. Maybe they picked the idea from here in the first place. Great scoop!

      I would like to get Neils opinion on this, can you ask him to maybe get into his track idea for the area and comment on the proposal discused here?

  11. Nice Idea, I doubt weather the political red tape will see it through though,
    The area is a good spot for a race, (ignoring everything except F1’s interests), But the track shown is lacking, Now, I’m not Tilke, but even I can see how a better track could be designed, that silly section of the south will be boring, If your gonna have a corner, don’t do it for the sake of having a corner, have a good reason to want it there.

    Nice article Keith, I wouldn’t have known about it otherwise. :D Cheers!

  12. OMG it looks like a giant shoe! It must be some kind of joke, right?

    1. Prisoner Monkeys
      4th May 2010, 9:44

      It’s a werid-looking foot you have if that’s the kind of shoe you have to wear.

      1. Your lack of imagination shouldn’t allow you to criticise my feet fella.

        Tip: left lower corner of the track is high heel.

        Tip2: Instead of shoe I should write high heel boots.

  13. Nathan Bradley
    4th May 2010, 9:41

    I don’t see room for the pits/paddock either Keith.

    Perhaps down the right hand side of the picture as we look, although I’m not sure of scale, so don’t know whether space is ample.

    A night race? Please, don’t have too much of a good, interesting diversion. Singapore and Abu Dhabi are enough. See Twenty20 cricket for an example of something originally a good idea, but taken way too far.

    And, as other people have said, it makes no sense to have a night race, because of the time zones for Bernie’s main market, his precious European viewers.


    P.S. I live in Europe, but do sympathize with viewers outside of Europe, for the sheer quantity of races run at night in other parts of the world. I know you can’t please everybody all of the time, but a little more even split might bring in more viewers from outside of Europe, and surely Bernie wants the most viewers possible for his $$$ right?

    1. Prisoner Monkeys
      4th May 2010, 9:47

      Actually … the only races that are any problem for us in Australia are Canada and Brazil; we usually have to stay awake all night to watch the races. Assuming the race would be on at 8pm local time, we’d be getting it at 9am.

      Of course, given that the local broadcaster only cares about the Australian Grand Prix and puts every race on at around 11pm-midnight, I’d probably have to avoid the internet for the day to prevent spoilers.

      1. Nathan Bradley
        4th May 2010, 10:13

        Ah, in that case, apologies for my assumptions, should have worked out my time zones first!


      2. you really have to sort yourself out with digital tv. ONE show the races live, and usually the qualifying live as well (although sometimes delayed depending on their other saturday coverage).

        1. Prisoner Monkeys
          4th May 2010, 11:36

          I’m a uni student – I can’t afford ONE.

          1. I know I cant really comment because I dont know your personal situation, but you can get relatively cheap set-top boxes from JB-HIFI, Big W, Kmart etc. I havent checked prices in about 6 months but they were around the $50 mark, although with stock-take coming up they could come down.

          2. If you’re in a metro area you don’t even need a HD box, just a SD box. You can get them for less than $30 in some places.
            One only broadcast in HD in rural areas, but in metro there’s also One digtal that you can get on any stb

            and the Brazillian GP sucks as it’s always in the middle of exams, I can never justify staying up all night (unless I’m still cramming of course :p)

      3. Bit rich to comment on Channel Ten like that when the issue is simply that you don’t have a TV that isn’t archaic.

  14. Prisoner Monkeys
    4th May 2010, 9:43

    Yes, I called it! Back when Ecclestone said he was looking at a circuit within range of Manhattan, I predicted it would be in Liberty State Park!

    I have to say, I don’t mind it. I was iffy about the bottom half and the way it keeps bending back on itself, but what really stands out is that this is very much a circuit of two halves. The bottom half might be slow and folds back on itself, but the top half is looking very quick. Is there any circuit out there that has such a marked distinction?

    1. Old Hockenheim? The Indianapolis F1 track from a few years back?

  15. The Dutch Bear
    4th May 2010, 9:55

    When you start this race at the normal time, in the afternoon, it will be on television in Europe at around 7-8 pm, primetime. I can understand that Bernie wants to make it more comfortable for the Americans, but in terms of viewers primetime in Europe would be better.

    I know it’s early days, but I don’t like the track lay-out. Especially the bottom part which is full of hairpins. John Hugenholtz, the designer of the orginal Zandvoort and Suzuka which are both great tracks, always said: Please no chicanes and hairpins, only just as a emergency solution.

  16. re: prisoner monkey – one show ALL races live in Australia as well as qualifying (sister channel 10 show delayed telecast)

  17. Magnificent Geoffrey
    4th May 2010, 10:11

    Honestly, I will be amazed if this actually happens.

    (Also, hello to people reading this in 2012 – I was sure wrong on this one, wasn’t I?!)

    1. Bigbadderboom
      4th May 2010, 11:19

      Agreed, there will be far too much opposition to it, and there is no way Bernie is going to start getting his hands dirty again with all the nitty gritty. The FOM business model is designed for Bernie to have a packaged product he can sell. He may be looking to open the US Market but I doubt the motivation is strong enough to take such a resource heavy and financial punt at this time, it’s noit like he is short of takers at the moment either, F1 is very helathy in terms of demand for (and we all hate saying this!) “The Show” (Sorry!!)

    2. Yea, there’s no way this happens. Too many people will voice opposition, and the squeaky wheel always seems to get the grease over here.

  18. It is a good location for Grand Prix but I hope track layout won’t be so bland.
    I notice they mention ”finals” – do they intend to get the last race of the season? I really hope it will work but I think the best idea for F1 race which will trully get to make US fans love Formula 1 is to reinstate Indianapolis 500 as a championship event in a way. Maybe make it a part of the Indianapolis 500 weekend if there is room – crowds would be there already and Formula 1 on an oval would be interesting to watch for one race in the season…

  19. We dont need many night races in F1, we need to keep the spectacle. We already have a twilight race (Australia – although soon to be reverted to late afternoon), twilight/night race (Abu Dhabi) and a night race (Singapore).

    It would also be somewhat illogical to have a night race in the USA, as the whole idea of a night race is to improve viewing figures accross the world. In this instance, it would probably drop the viewing figures as it’ll be very late in the European Zone, and the start of the working day in Asia, Australia and the Pacific.

    I wouldnt mind staying up late to watch a race like the die hard fans in the areas mentioned above, but I dont think a night race in the states is either necessary or viable.

    1. Maybe quali Friday and race Sat. This would guarantee your not colliding with Nascar race on Sun (consider 30 some race in a year means hard time to Schedule and not conflict).

      1. Wouldnt work. Every Grand Prix in recent history (every race in the last 20 I think) has been held on a Sunday.

        There would be huge amounts of confusion and would completely throw out the entire weekend. All races are required to hold events over Friday, Saturday and Sunday (with the exception of Monaco, which has practice on a Thursday as opposed to Friday)

  20. I doubt it will go through… New Jerseans are attached to their quality of life space… and having the race at night is not practical by any means… new york and northern state have little electricity to spare.. first.. Obama is working on making the Country green… so forget about 26 fuel guzzlers running under the most electricity consuming lighting that can ever be created for a non vital issue… it wont happen… unless it puts 3500 people to work at least,,, and i doubt that

  21. Although I’ve never seen a F1 race proposal before, I have to say this one doesn’t seem to be very professional. It sort of seems like maybe someone spent an hour putting this together. Neil Smith’s concept from the track design competition is much more developed, not to mention more interesting.

    I do however like the idea of having a race in Jersey City, as long as it was run professionally. I cannot however imagine FOM getting so involved in the organisation of the race. Don’t all the other races pay for that privilege.

    Looking at the aerial photo I’m not sure what the Friends of Liberty State Park have against the idea. The park sort of seems to be pretty barren at the moment. Maybe having a race there might actually get some facilities at the park.

    1. Maybe a Liberty Island circuit design competition would be a good idea?

  22. Ned Flanders
    4th May 2010, 10:24

    Wow! A night race in New York would be the schnizzle! I’d easily get up at 2am to watch it. Obviously, it would get a low TV audience in Europe, but maybe Ecclestone is looking at the bigger picture- a New York GP at night would be the kind of spectacle that might allow F1 to finally take off in the US

  23. I’ve never understood why there’s such difficulty in designing good tracks, everyone knows what is needed these days. A straight which is bookended by two corners which modern F1 cars can follow through. That circuit looks rubbish, why don’t they bother? Surley they most note that audience’s wane when the racings not good?

    1. How does that define a good track? Suzuka does not have what you described. Neither does Silverstone. Nor Spa.

      Bahrain has what you mentioned. So does Shanghai. So does Malaysia. So does Turkey (which actually is a good track) i.e. Tilkedomes. Which are what tonnes of people abuse and lay the blame of boring racing on.

      Good grief, Scribe.

      1. Alright, no good griefing boyyo, that park there is a flat, uninteresting non clean slate kind of track, There’s no reason not to include an obvious overtaking spot, it’s stupid. That track looks Valenica bad.

        Silverstone has had what I described built in to aid overtaking, WHY? Because before overtaking was nigh on impossible in the dry, an the circuit often produced poor or boring races.

        Intergalos, Spa (La Source, an the back straight, Eau Rouge is a corner you can follow through), Canada, Australia and Hockenheim, all tracks where you can overtake on, have a followable corner, a section of track for drafting, an a fair amount of overtaking. Some of these are better than others but they all tend to produce great races.

        Onto Tilke tracks, Sepang is a great track, with exactly what i’ve described, incidentally, there’s exactly two clear overtaking spots on that track, an what do they follow?

        Bahrain in it’s proper format is an overtaking optimised track that suffers from it’s sandy location. In it’s proper format it was so good for overtaking that Jenson Button was able to overtake a KERS equiped Hamilton down the start/finish straight. The snooze fest produced last year was down to the stupid new section which ruined the character of the track, an the endurance mindset of the drivers.

        Shanghai isn’t a brilliant circuit but it’s capable of producing exciting races.

        Suzuka does have a what I talked about, it’s possible to follow a car through the final chicane and overtake them into the first corner.

        That track is worse than most Tilke tracks because the slow section will space out the cars, an theres no overtaking point either there or in the fast section, hence a rubbish circuit. So don’t good grief me when it’s clear you don;t know what your talking about.

  24. to hell with new jersey. the northern half of the state exists only to support new york city and state. this area of “the garden state” is overrun with landfills, warehouses and toxic chemical plants. upon entering the state (and having your wallet cleaned for doing so) the first thing you will notice is a foul stench – on a bad day it will knock you down. the second thing would be a complete absence of anything to do. things improve as you drive through a couple hundred miles of farmland, culminating in the city of philadelphia, pennsylvania (again, a real city just over the state line). these are my own observations, without exaggeration. my advice to those planning a trip to new jersey is: don’t. go to boston, nyc or philly instead.

    sorry, but the 2011 Grand Prix of New Jersey presented by Waste Management does nothing for me. i would gladly attend a race held anywhere else in the states.

    1. US Williams Fan
      4th May 2010, 18:27

      As a person who Was born in NJ…. and lives in Philly – I could not agree more!

      Anyone planning on attending this race (or just about anything else in Jersey City for that matter) prepare to deal with the stench of factories and keep an eye on jewelry, wallets, purses etc. Not the safest place in the world.

      Still…. would love to see a race in the US – Just not in Jersey City!

      1. glad to have an expert confirm :)

        i guess technically you pay an arm to new york for the GW bridge and a leg to new jersey for the highway. my friend an i were making the trip from boston to philly years ago, and as soon as we crossed into nj we accused each other of passing the worst gas you could think of. also unnerving was the sight of a jumbo jet in my rearview mirror, closing fast. apparently this area has an airport every few miles.

  25. Oh no! No more rubbish circuits that overtaking is a dream!

  26. It should be a Day race but the NY city is so beautiful at night. i think thats the main reason why they want it at night.

    I like the looks of the map, and about the pit, remember how small the Monaco pit is.

  27. Manhattan would of been “nicer”.

    Can’t be picky though since I’m sure a night race will work in New York for the US fans. It’s just a bit out of place with european viewers, 80% having jobs on the day (excluding the recession) couldn’t watch it because it’s on early monday morning if it was to be held on a sunday over there.

    This could be a way to get more viewers in the far east which I’m sure if Bernie wants a night race in new york is thinking about. Perfect time for India, Japan, Australia, Korea, China and New Zeland ofc. but the race would have to start on saturday night in new york for it to work.

    1. Prisoner Monkeys
      4th May 2010, 13:29

      Manhattan is completely impractical. You’d have to shut down one of the world’s largest and busiest cities. For a week.

      1. I’ve been to manhattan and there are plenty of roads that dont get used as much as times square and the central park area, it could work if thought out a lot.

  28. Crazy idea…. cramped circuit, no straight, no overtaking places, no fast flowing corners, no infrastructure – it would be as bad as the Las Vegas car park….

    Plus it spoils an iconic site (which New Yorkers wouldn’t stand for) and the night race idea is bonkers from a European TV audience/advertiser perspective.

    They need to rethink, big time.

    1. Did you even read the article? Or did you simply look at the picture and immediately submit your comment?

      “Pictured below is a generic circular circuit through Liberty State Park, which covers a distance of 3.6 miles, the area would provide the least impact to city functions, and the greatest possible space to accommodate ticket holders. As the park has 1,212 acres, with a significant portion dedicated open space, amble viewing facilities can be erected, with the potential to hold the largest spectator audience on record.

      There are multiple ways to carve out the interior to make the course challenging with tight turns, great straights, plenty of options to place the pit, run off zones, team facilities, media center, and of course the paddock area.”

  29. Well for starters .. this is a “generic circular circuit” … which I assume means that this layout is just for getting the proposal and submission process started. Come on, it still has to be Tilke-fied before continuing! Anyway, seriously, I am pretty sure what we are looking at is by no means the proposed circuit.

    As far as the day/night thing goes… as others have mentioned – I think a Saturday night race is the answer. F1 has raced on Saturdays before, so why not now?

    I’m sure Jersey City by day ain’t too flash, but with a lit up Manhattan background… well, I’m sure that the TV producers would be loving that!

    Indianapolis is for the Indy 500. I think F1 needs to strike out on its own in the USA and I think that New York is a great candidate.

  30. Can someone tell me what is wrong with this place?

    1. With some upgrades to run off areas, barriers, and facilities, nothing would be wrong with it in my opinion. In all likelihood there would probably be some clause in the FIA rules that would prevent F1 cars from racing at Walkin Glen without massive changes to the actual layout and geometry of the track, which to me is a shame. So many awesome tracks around the world, but for one reason or another they are deemed not to be good enough for F1.

    2. One thing is the owners, the other things like Pinball mentions
      Then there is the issue of Bernies demands for enought hotel space etc. close by etc.

  31. As any New Yorker will point out to you, New Jersey is NOT New York! Neither state nor city…

    So if Bernie wants a GP in New York…keep looking ;)

  32. Well, if Bernie is contemplating a race in a park in New York, he should also be thinking about a park as a possible venue for his ‘London GP’.
    Luckily for him, some very nice people are spending lots of money building a park very close to London, with decent transport connections and easy access from all over the country – yes, the Olympic Park.
    Once the Games have finished, the owners will be looking for something to use it for, otherwise it will be another expensive white elephant.
    If Bernie gets in now (he should have got in much earlier of course) then he can ensure that the park is designed for change later on – not just as a GP circuit, but maybe driver training, karting and cycling areas too.
    However, nobody (not even the nice people who are building it) will be thinking about what happens to the park after 2012, in typical British fashion………

  33. Whats the issue with it being at night?

    I don’t like the idea of night race but it’s stupid that everyone needs to cater for european audiences, it’s a goddamn sport.

    We need more race as their usual times, if we can’t have that this is the best alternative. What happened to the good days when Australia and Japan used to be on when they should have been, no better feeling than waking up at 2am for a race.

    1. Agreed James, it’s as if we’ve internalised Bernie’s business logic over all these years instead of evaluating proposals on their own merits for the spectators and the host nation/state.

  34. Robert McKay
    4th May 2010, 12:49

    It’s a horrible layout.

    But it’s not really a formal proposal, just an idea, which is why I think it’s a bit amateurish looking.

    1. Robert McKay
      4th May 2010, 12:50

      …OK, perhaps I should read better, it is a formal proposal :D

  35. I found these aerial photos which give a better indication of what the park looks like. It doesnt look half as bead as it does in the photos above.

  36. That configuration looks awful, but I’m not even going to bother going on gmaps pedometer because there’s absolutely nothing to work with. I was mildly intrigued by the idea before, now I’m dead against it.

    And a night race in a time zone behind Europe? Are they just throwing out any idea to get the race?

    1. So er, I read your post an thought I’d give it a go.

      Erm, so, it might be the longest calender on the track by half a k, but two overtaking spots an lots of fast corners? Imma try again.

      I designed like three tracks, all I could come up with was this sepang inspired rubbish.

  37. polishboy808
    4th May 2010, 13:32

    These “friends” don’t know anything about LSP. “had no clue about the true purposes of LSP” What purposes? It is now only used as a park, just like any other park, it has ferries sure, but they are of no real importance. Such a small group like the Friends of LSP will not stop them from devoloping there. The place was a dump for much of the time, and then it turned into a public boring park,they would be doing these “friends” a favor by deveoloping there. However the night race idea does seem kinda weird, New York City in the morning is amazing!

  38. Surely they can find some cheap land to buy where they can do what they want, rather than annoying all the envirofriends?

  39. Prisoner Monkeys
    4th May 2010, 13:50

    The more I think on it, the more I believe that the Powers That Be are going to have issues with those corners down the bottom of the circuit. There’s simply no room for run-off, and there’s more than one point where a car leaving the circuit could enter the run-off area on the outside of another corner. You could make the argument that they’re pushing for a street circuit design, but given the width the circuit would have to be, all you’d have separating one part of the circuit from the other is some armco and safety fencing. And if a car crashed heavily there, it would compromise safety in the entire section.

    1. Prisoner Monkeys
      4th May 2010, 13:54

      Also, an important point (if true) raised by GP Update (I say ‘if true’ because GP Update has never been the most reliable source): the plan outlines two possible routes for the circuit. The pink line and the purple.

      1. Robert McKay
        4th May 2010, 14:02

        I wondered if the pink line was some sort of existing park road/”boundary”?

        Either way it’s the least F1-configuration layout you’ll ever see. The pink one would be very interesting, much like the Bahrain outer track would be great, because they’re not overdesigned and full of fiddly corners there simply to get the track length up to a reasonably standard.

        I suspect the purple one is what the F1 track would be, but I hope I am wrong.

        1. Prisoner Monkeys
          4th May 2010, 14:17

          No, the corners in the south-western corner are too close together.

    2. They could make so that if you go off the circuit, you go in the drink. Just like Monaco in the olden days. And believe me falling in the Hudson would not be like going into the Monaco Harbor. You will be a couple miles out to sea in 15 minutes and the long term health effects will be signficant.

      Further, this would quiet those who constantly complain that the sport lacks danger and the application of true skill. Drivers who cannot unlatch themselves before sinking and swim in a 7 mph current will simply have to bow out of the sport.

  40. Well I hope if this site does become reality, the layout is super fast blinder like Monza with at least one high banked corner. A banked corner, 220 mph is
    synonymous with US racing scene and the track designers should emphasize this.

    1. polishboy808
      4th May 2010, 14:16

      Genius Idea! And maybe just for the US GP cover the wheels, make the body panels detachable with a finger, allow pushing and “bump drafting” and call it NASCAR1! If they do add a banked turn like indy had, I think I’ve just lost hope for F1……

  41. I just had a look at the g maps photos. The road looks just old and ruined and the neighborhoods are deserted. If you want to get a track out of that…good luck, lot of work to do!

    1. Prisoner Monkeys
      4th May 2010, 14:20

      Simple: tear it up and build it again.

      And when was the last time Formula 1 cared about adjacent neighbourhoods? If anything, this is good for Formula 1 because there’s less people who can complain about it and stop it dead in is tracks.

      1. polishboy808
        4th May 2010, 14:27

        Agreed, the less people around the easier it is to build. But still, they have these “friends” to deal with……

        1. Prisoner Monkeys
          4th May 2010, 14:42

          Then run it like Montreal or Albert Park: semi-street circuit in parkland. The Friends get an upgrade to the roads around the park. The pit buildings can be used by the yacht club – I’m told the pits would be along the northern edge, Audrey Zapp Drive – during the off-season. And the safety barriers and gransdtands could be temporary constructions.

          1. polishboy808
            4th May 2010, 14:58

            Good but then I’m afraid we’d have the Valencia effect. If its during the day, it’ll be super hot, and New york is VERY hot during the summer, and with temporary things such as grandstands and buildings, the problem with food, bathrooms, and parking in the area will be there. Night, we’d see a copy of Singapore, and the problem of european time and US time.

  42. If they want a race in NY, do it thru Central Park? There were once plans made for such a thing back in the 60’s. Getting in/out of Liberty State Park is horrendous, like Montreal without the metro, although there is ferry service.

    1. polishboy808
      4th May 2010, 15:10

      Ha! Can you imagine thousands of people arriving through ferry? that would be hell! Your right about getting there, and parking, would you have to park on the other side for the ferry? Many problems with this idea but I thhink the New York race is do able. We just need “smart people” behind this, not money hungry monsters **cough cough Ecclestone cough cough**

    2. Prisoner Monkeys
      4th May 2010, 15:24

      The roads in Central Park are too narrow. And there’s no way you’d be able to get them widened.

  43. This is a complete joke and a waste of time to even discuss it. Indy is the ONLY place (as of right now) that could properly hold a legitimate F1 race in the near future! That “proposed” track layout looks like something I put together in my room as a little boy.

    1. Prisoner Monkeys
      4th May 2010, 15:26

      Two things: Indy is rubbish. Any value it might have had was destroyed by that double hairpin.

      Also, the above plan shows two possible routes: the purple line is one, the pink is the other. And the pink one looks very quick.

      1. Robert McKay
        4th May 2010, 16:31

        Pink one would never happen, I suspect.

      2. I agree about the hairpin, but just FYI, it was removed and replaced with a right-left-right complex when MotoGP started using the circuit.

      3. To me the pink line looks like existing roads they could use partly and add loops and chicanes etc. for a few F1 driving only sequences. Or maybe just service roads cirumventing the area covered in the plans.

  44. Night race – bad idea. A twilight race maybe okay for Europe but not for Asia. :(

    1. Prisoner Monkeys
      4th May 2010, 15:39

      Actually, Asian countries and Australia would have to get up at 3 in the morning to watch a Grand Prix held at 2pm local time. Assuming that the race was held at 8pm local time, then Asia and Australia would actually be able to watch the race at 9am.

      1. If you are a F1 fan then timing shouldn’t bother you.

        1. Well, i suppose getting the day of several times a year just to watch won’t be very doable for most Asian viewers!

  45. Well we’ve already got a night race and a twilight race. What’s the point of having a race under similar conditions? I’d suggest a dawn race.

  46. Well, here’s my take on what the track could look like:

    The pit straight is the short east/west bit at the north end. I postioned it that way so TV cameras would get good shots of the starting grid with the Manhattan skyline in the background. The track is about 5.5km long, and runs counter-clockwise.

    The only way I can see this track getting built is if the designers follow the Melbourne example, where the only permanent structures are the pit building and the track itself. Everything else, barriers, grandstands etc., would be removeable, so that when the race is done the park can at least be partially restored to its original condition.

    1. Sounds nice, did you have a look at the one done by Neil that won the circuit contest two years ago?
      It takes the straight even further and streched into the terminal

      1. Yep. His design beat mine in that contest. :)

        The layout I posted above was just a quick sketch, and I tried to keep the track within the park itself. I like Neil’s layout, but his straight goes through a historic railroad station.

    2. HounslowBusGarage
      4th May 2010, 19:54

      That looks oretty good from a track and positioning point of view; maybe a just few too many hairpins. But would the authorities and ‘friends’ accept the idea of going anywhere near the bridge/causeway thing to Ellis Island?

      1. “But would the authorities and ‘friends’ accept the idea of going anywhere near the bridge/causeway thing to Ellis Island?”

        I’m not sure. I hope they would. I think it would make a great piece of track if it could follow that stretch of shore. Maybe the existing walkway could be widened and repaved.

  47. While I am in favour of F1 having a US Grand Prix, a potential New York or Jersey GP only seems to be on the cards because of the backdrop it will offer, not because of how good the circuit will be for an F1 race.

    The Singapore and Abu Dhabi night races are enough for me, but considering the European start time for a US night race I doubt that it would happen anyway.

    In fact I haven’t read anything to convince me this Grand Prix has any chance of happening at all.

    1. Stephen Higgins
      4th May 2010, 19:52

      There’s a perfecty good track in the New York state area.

      In fact it’s a track that has an F1 history and a good one at that …

      … Watkins Glenn anyone ???

  48. The plans looks good as Bernie was trying to get an USA GP, but 2012 is lot far away so lets wait & see what happens.

  49. James Brickles
    4th May 2010, 18:54

    The tracks look alright I think. A few really quick corners and most of them quite long corners as well.

    I’ve become so familiar with short snappy corners lately I find it quite nice to see a track proposal like this.

  50. lol…. im sorry but This track layour looks terrible :/

  51. I hope it isn’t a night race that’ll mean the race will start at 3am or something ridiculous

    1. I don’t mean to sound bitter, but try living in North America for a change during F1 season. All those Asian races that start early in the morning for you kick off for us at hours like 3 or 4 AM. Sorry, but I won’t cry if European audiences don’t get catered to again when it comes to start times.

      1. OK, but Asian viewers would have to miss the Monday morning at work!

        Hold it on Saturday evening might be an idea.

  52. Yeah Keith that track from the design competition is a much better looking track for good racing and overtaking. You should send it in to FOM, it would be interesting to hear Bernie’s take on it compared to the one being proposed!

  53. Stephen Higgins
    4th May 2010, 19:50

    The New York track in Gran Tourismo looks better than this waste of time and effort … …


    1. the glen, and lots of other great tracks, don’t meet the standards of fia and fom. if i could pick 1 track to force f1 on, it would be leguna seca.

  54. Hang on… When would this race be held in American time? There has not been a race OUTSIDE of Sunday in years :|

    Like the idea though

  55. Likely not happening now:…lls_for_wi.html

  56. Rick Hendriske
    4th May 2010, 21:34

    Is this pdf file the real submission? It’s very, very simple and if that is all that it takes… I want a grand prix in my backyard! I will supply the ground, FOM will do the rest and oh yeah, since i’m not a bad person;

    FOM can use my water and electricity connections!

    Deal or no deal?

  57. No chance! I think Lil Bernie is simply applying some pressure to the folks in Indy. Hey Bernie – I have a park in my neighborhood that would be perfect…the St. Louis skyline is terrific!

    Bernie wants the government to financially back this thing…I don’t see it happening anytime soon. hhhhmmmm Obama does own GM though…is there a General Motors US based team in the works??? HAHAHAHA

  58. Las Vegas at night would be the correct choice!

  59. Two of the friends I watch F1 races with are both from NYC. Both have said a race there is the most moronic idea they’ve ever heard.

    Seriously, Bernie, go to one of our plethora of ALREADY BUILT road courses with a long racing history. It baffles me how there’s all these cries about keeping F1 from spending itself into oblivion while they aim for things like this.

  60. Spaceman Spiff
    4th May 2010, 22:32

    Fantastic idea… they could not have chosen a more ideal location ! I lived in Montreal for nearly 8 years, and this location appears very similar to Montreal’s Ile Notre-Dame, with its spectacular city backdrop and beautiful waterfront track. And NYC can only be more spectacular. Montreal is one of F1’s favourite destinations and I’m sure that is in good part due to the track’s proximity to the city center. Again, NYC can only be more so.
    And to the environmentalist nay-sayers, you guys need to go to Montreal to see what a great public park they have that is associated with the track. It is a haven for cyclists, rollerbladers, joggers, and tourists. They’ll just need the will power to keep cars out of the park area (except for races of course). If the new Liberty Park track can match what they’ve done in Montreal, it will be fantastic.

  61. All Grands Prix in this house start around 8pm, so it doesn’t matter to me when the races are run.

    I don’t watch night races, I like to be able to see what’s going on.

  62. Not going to happen, 1st. 22 million needed to pay off the Indy people. 2nd. if you know who really runs N.J.- big pay offs …

  63. I can see how it would be a cool event but I think the friends of Liberty State Park are kind of right. It could seriously screw up the park. It’s a massive event with so many temporary structures, vehicles and people and if they’re gonna do it at night that means serious wiring!

  64. Prisoner Monkeys
    5th May 2010, 1:23

    Apparently the Mayor has already asked that proposal be withdrawn. Sounds like the Friends of Liberty State Park appliedsome serious pressure.

    God, I hate NIMBYs.

  65. why do they build purpose built street courses. You have a big open space, so you decide to make a street circuit. it doesnt make sense.That track has way to much turns and its going to be boring and slow.

  66. No, no, no. And…no. Never gonna happen at this park. At least, that’s my bet.

    And I’m still holding a candle for Las Vegas. I can’t imagine a better place to return for the American GP.

  67. In the Jersey Journal article that Keith linked to on Twitter it makes mention of a circuit that was used by IndyCar / CART up until 1991. It was at the New York Giant’s Stadium, which is actually in New Jersey. Anyway, it sounds like the circuit used the carpark of the stadium, which at first sounds crappy; however looking at the area on Google Earth the car park is massive, and would probably be quiet a good location for a street circuit, probably better than Liberty Park.

    If the race was held in the NFL off season, a circuit could be setup with minimal distruption to neighbours and traffic. The expansive areas of asphalt would allow for flexibility in circuit design, and the proximity of the Giant’s stadium would allow for a big “F1 Rocks” event, they could even get some good bands. There is also the izod centre, which I’m guessing is some sort of indoor arena, it could probably be used as an media centre.

  68. This proposal has to be taken as seriously as USF1´s…

  69. Why have a race in dirty Jersey? The old man needs to just go away already.

    1. Prisoner Monkeys
      5th May 2010, 3:45

      Because to race in Manhattan would be impractical. And it’s not like they’re racing through dwntwn Jersey City – they’ll be racing in Liberty State Park, some distance from the actual city.

  70. The track design is almost a facsimile of Albert Park already and will only look moreso as they try to add bits to take out enough full throttle to make it practical.

  71. JavlinSharp
    5th May 2010, 8:07

    I happen to have intimate knowledge of this location. Having worked in Jersey City for over 5 years, and living in NY metro area for 10.

    The commercial aspects are less daunting that one might realize.

    New York City is the Pinacle of Glamor, Wealth and Commercialism in the US; three of Berni’s favorite things. Though F1 would be impossible on Manhatten island, Jersey City’s proximity is so close as to make no difference.

    Jersey City has long been a commercial area, hosting major office,commecial space and public transit systems. In recent years there has been a huge increase of new High End apartments, Shopping areas, and Office buildings. A new Trump building was finished just last year. These owners will be excited to have the recognition that F1 brings.

    Most of the remaining buildings are low-end private constructions. These owners will probably not mount a major effort against the project, as the citizens of they city, they stand to gain as well.

    The City Council is pro business and pro commerce. The recognition alone would be a big factor. Always under the shadow of Manhatten, Jersey City would get a big boost in recognition, and a minor windfall in sales taxs. If the they can make even money in a contract with Berni, these factor alone might be sufficient motivation.

    The actual venue itself is already popular. A major Educational Science Center is on the grounds; similar in shape to Orlando’s Epcot Center (See link below for zoomed Google sat image) It well connected to the highway system.

    The Liberty State Park is probably the only possible location within sight of NYC skyline, and has a green beauty of its own at the right time of year.

    With the swift deployment of a `Tikedrome`, and some decent marketing within NYC, this race would be well attended.

    I, for one, and hoping against hope to have an F1 race anywhere in the US, let alone 12 miles from my home.,+NJ&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=48.374125,78.837891&safe=on&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Jersey+City,+Hudson,+New+Jersey&ll=40.708328,-74.054686&spn=0.002847,0.004812&t=h&z=18

  72. No no no! No more street circuits please. No Rome, no London, no New York street race. A US F1 race is a must, but why are we sold these pipe-dreams when they are based on £’ $’s and are income based? It should not be in Bernie’s remit to dictate to F1 where it races. F1/FIA/FOTA should decide where it wants to race and leave Bernie to make what he can from the deal. How many circuits in the US are being overlooked because a race there would not bring a big enough bottom line? Until F1 is put first the ‘F1 product’ will continue to suffer an identity crisis without knowing what it is or what it wants to be. No no no. Bad bad bad.

  73. No new york street race please, certainly not a night race in new york. It looks like they don’t want a race track in their park too, that is great!

    1. 1. The circuit is horrible.

      2. Phoenix (as well as the entire state of Arizona), are being boycotted by many US Citizens because of a controversial illegal immigrant law. What international company would want to host an event surrounded by racists?

      1. It is often joked that Ecclestone will take F1 anywhere as long they come up with enough money.

        1. It’s not really a joke: think Las Vegas, TI Aida…

          1. …think Turkey, China, Korea … yup, anyplace Bernie can get enough money. Forget the racing, that’s not important.

  74. Quote from – “Pesin noted that state and federal grants are funding a $32 million ecological restoration project at the park, which includes creating a 40-acre salt marsh, over 100 acres of forest and a network of nature trails.”

    If that truely is the case, why racing at the park was even up for consideration is beyond me. I’m not surprised this didn’t happen, it had that inevitable feel about it.

    1. I think it is a missed opportunity for Jersey City to get some dynamics into the area as well as for F1 to have
      1. a race in the USA, close to mayor Cities
      2. show that it can be encorporated into an area being developed to have nature in an urban area (the “history” they talk about is app. 10-15 years after changing it from a dump).

      FOM shoul have taken them to visit Melbourne to see, what the park is now and what it looked like before the GP went there.

      1. Or let them have a look at Montreal. A park surrounds the cite of the track and it is great for everybody.

  75. Let out the reins a little and just go to Laguna Seca already, sheesh!

  76. thats look great! i think build a formula 1 circuit and preserve the site are both very possible.

    1. Think so as well, F1 needs only a track and pits buildings (can double as sports/entertainment etc. facilities) and runs for 1 week a year.

  77. I’m really in two minds about this…

  78. LOL – I just thought about it…. the track just follows along the road 70% of the time with a few ovals going in and out from time to time XD

  79. It´s a pitty that the plan is dead, as they put so much energy and time into this project.

  80. Alright, it’s solved. The new route for the NYC race is across Verrazano Narrows Bridge onto the expressways of western Long Island. Coney Island Park should do a booming business. Then north to Throggs Neck Bridge-boy, some high speeds should be done there!- and on across to turn west on the William Flynn Expressway. Should be a wild sound, 24 F1 cars roaring through the section of the Wm Flynn that is surrounded by those high cement walls just north of Columbia University that runs up to the George Washington Bridge. Across the GW and on down Garden State Expressway and back to the Verrazano Bridge by some twisting ubiquitous route.

    Oh, wait, that will never work. By the time you create the runoff FiA demands these days, you’d have to tear down Columbia University for the Wm Flynn section.

    Ah, well.

    (Tongue firmly in check, yes. But my, what a fun course it would be.)

  81. It would have great.
    Too bad it was turned down.

  82. if they start at 8pm america its 2am here in sri lanka

  83. Though I’d throw in a link that readers here might find meaningful.

  84. sorry this question might have been asked already or answered , but what would happen to austin ?, would this new york be instead of austin ?

    unless the usa has 2 grand prixs whould canada loss theres to have 2 in one country ??

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