F1 Fanatic round-up: 12/9/2010

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Spare a thought for Ed, who posts on here as Superted666 and has been helping me out with the site’s server. Poor Ed was knocked off his bike by a van the other day and is on crutches at the moment. Get well soon Ed!

It’s race day, of course, so remember to join us for the live blog. There’s also a good chance that Pastor Maldonado will win the GP2 championship in today’s sprint race so keep an eye out for that too.


Lewis Hamilton: I’d rather fight fair with Jenson Button and lose title than obey team orders

“Some people like to win a championship in a different way. Jenson and myself would be proud to go neck and neck to the end. And if we end up losing the championship to someone like Fernando because the whole team was for him, I don’t think I would feel too bad about it.”

Jenson Button: I would rather quit F1 than follow team orders (The Guardian)

“I don’t think team orders are correct in any way. For me that’s not the way it should be, but it’s not my decision. If it was legal and allowed I wouldn’t be very happy at all. I’d be very disappointed.”

F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone makes team orders hint (BBC)

“We should let teams run their own strategy. Teams will respect the rule as much as they can as long as it remains.”

Sebastian Vettel Q&A: I?m not sure what went wrong (F1.com)

“The car was good in the corners but I have no clue why we lost so significantly on the straights. I was always a bit faster than Mark [Webber] with the same wing – at least on Friday – and then in qualifying I am four km/h slower on the straight. Put two and two together and you have the lap time that I did.”

Chris Goodwin and I have just been robbed… (Karun Chandhok via Twitter)

“Chris Goodwin and I have just been robbed outside a restaurant. His passport, both laptops, cash. Ridiculous! Two other cars also done. Amazingly no credit cards and they threw our F1 passes and my passport back in the car. If anyone sees a laptop with my name and an Indian flag embossed on the cover then please let me know – only one of a kind with lots of docs! Just finished at police station. No chance of finding anything I’m sure – it’s going to be a nightmare week ahead.”

Comment of the day

Did qualifying show that Hamilton picked the wrong set-up – or did he just make mistakes? Patrickl reckons the latter:

Hamilton simply messed up in Q3. Alonso, Button and Massa all went three tenths quicker from Q2 to Q3. Hamilton went two tenths slower. Even with this set-up you?d expect Hamilton to be able to half a second faster than he did.

Of course you?d expect Hamilton to be three tenths faster than Button in Q3. So indeed perhaps he lost an extra three tenths there. And thus pole.

McLaren claimed they were faster on the harder tyres though, so it could very well be that we get to see another impressive series of overtakes from Hamilton. That is, if he manages to get through turn one with those two Red Bulls around.

From the forum

James_mc is wondering who was the best of the single-time champions.

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Mark and Striay!

On this day in F1

Jackie Stewart won his first Formula 1 race on this day in 1965 at Monza.

On the pre-chicane version of the track the lead changed hands 43 times in 76 laps. Don’t expect to see as many as that today…

Stewart capitalised when his BRM team mate Graham Hill ran wide at the Parabolica, allowing his team mate through.

Author information

Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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  • 47 comments on “F1 Fanatic round-up: 12/9/2010”

    1. F1 drivers being robbed in Italy… I wonder what repercussions that would have if it had happened here in Brazil.

      1. Wasn’t the Toyota team victim of attempted carjacking recently?

        1. Yea I think it was Brazil 2006 from memory.

          1. In Brazil, teams, journalists and supporters get robbed every year.

    2. Tiffiamo Insieme
      12th September 2010, 1:28

      ecstatic, not static

    3. Some people like to win a championship in a different way. Jenson and myself would be proud to go neck and neck to the end. And if we end up losing the championship to someone like Fernando because the whole team was for him, I don’t think I would feel too bad about it.

      Lewis just earned himself a lot of respect from me.

      1. Couldn’t agree more… just too bad he doesn’t think that way back in 2008! by winning only just 1 point difference

        1. Maybe he was told that Heikki just “helped him, in mutual respect”? Either way, both drivers know what fans want to hear, I think, and this is also the spirit in which earlier team mates used to help each other to the title, not bey coercion.

      2. Great to see they both feel that way. I’m not sure their team share the sentiment, but at least the drivers have integrity.

        1. Don’t be to much afraid of that. McLaren seems to be of one mind on this if we can believe what they are saying: http://msn.planetf1.com/news/3213/6371129/Whitmarsh-Rather-lose-than-use-team-orders

      3. First of all it’s clearly a party line being trotted out, when three human beings say exactly the same thing someones PR agent is working behind the sceanes, an yeah it’s clearly what the fans want to hear.

        On the other hand you can kind of belive it from McLaren, they do seem to practice their preachings.

        The Heikki thing was different really, the guy was just so slow, he never had a chance.

    4. Feeling bad for both Chandhok & Goodwin two very nice guy robbed by bad guys. Agree with both Button & Hamilton.

      For Vettel this isn’t your race so try to bring home maximum points other than making mistakes.

      1. Yes, yes, and yes.

        1. Yes, to all of that :)

      2. And Vettel please refrain from crashing into the sidepods of Hamilton.

        Really bad press with that robbery.

      3. I feel Chandhok and Goodwin migh just get over it, :) nice guys though.



        May Kamui have some points please.
        Cheers motoracing spirit! :)

        1. Agree with all that but i want button to win today. That was an awesome performance from him in qualifying!

          Fernando deserves nothing, his attitude stinks!

        2. Amen to that Scribe!

    5. I like Lewis’ comments…I truly hope though, in the coming weeks, if it happens that Jenson is out of the fight, that he does try and help Hammy to the title. I hope its truly a mutual thing.

    6. I thought this was refreshing honesty from a F1 driver. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/mark-webbers-fiercest-rival-spurs-him-to-greater-heights/story-e6frf9if-1225917757627

      Most whould try and sweep it under the carpet and say it’s all fine but not Webber.

      1. Webber is Webber… and all F1 drivers should learn from him :D!

      2. RBR would have made Webber give way to Vettel if he was in front so i guess he’s just making sure they know the other shoe has its foot in front now.

        1. I think that is exactly what made him “put the notch up” and get to the level he is at now. He knows he has to constantly prove he deserves to be treated equal or better than Vettel. Sure he want’s to rub it in a bit, but that’s part of the sport.

          In a way Rubens did the same last year, he was far behind Jenson but some excellent races showed he was good enough to make be part of the WDC fight for himself as well.
          Jenson this year had the great opportunity to show he would not be no2 in the team in Australia, which really helped both him and Lewis to improve the team.

      3. I like Webber and his honesty, if Alonso doesn’t win I hope he’ll get his well deserved WDC.

        Webber is a very rare driver for this F1 age, he’s the kind of guy you’d like to share a pint of beer with in a pub.
        he doesn’t prepare the same conventional speeches, on the contrary he always speaks his mind, and in this aspect he’s very reminiscent of Senna.

        1. Even better than Senna, I’d say. Webber doesn’t act like he was god’s gift on the racing track. I think Webber has already shown himself to be a worthy world champion, he just needs for it to happen on track.

    7. Spare a thought for Ed, that is not nice, sorry to hear that Ed, get well mate.

      ive always said, i thought Button and Lewis are the best Team mates on the grid, plus Lewis has learned a great deal from Button,
      it is great to hear how Lewis feels about the situation of team orders, i have no doubt they would support each other if one didn’t have a chance of winning though.
      hope this shows all those muppets that “save fuel” means just that and not team orders.

    8. I’ve got to say I was never a Hamilton fan at all, and I would actually say that I didn’t even like the guy when he started in F1 but as time has passed I’ve become a fan of the guy.

      And I agree that he and Button are the best team mates on the grid.

    9. Get well soon Ed!

      1. Here here. I know how that sort of accident feels! Get well soon Ed, all the best.

      2. Best wishes from me as well Ed!

    10. sounds like a bunch of lip service from the mclaren drivers, particularly after hamilton has benefited from the ol’ switcheroo in the past. these words are especially hollow coming from people that have already won titles and made their millions. would robert kubica like to have a solid number 2 driver backing him up? i think he would:

      “It’s kind of an FIA decision and it’s not my job or my business,” Kubica said. “About getting rid of the team-order rule, I think both ways it’s okay. We had the rule, and many times in the past there were team orders and no one noticed it, or it was not as obvious as in Hockenheim, and I think without the rule it would just be easier. You would not have to hide so much. There are many ways to swap the position with the teammates even if the rule is there.”

      1. and, get well ed

      2. hamilton has benefited from the ol’ switcheroo in the past

        Hockenheim 2008 was hardly the same as Hockenheim 2010 though, was it? No way was Kovalainen going to keep Hamilton behind – even Massa couldn’t. And this rests on your assumption that an order was given, which hasn’t been proved – again, unlike Hockenheim 2010.

        1. Yea but lets just look at it logically here Keith. Heikki let him through for a reason whether it be via radio, pre race brief or having it written into his contract. He didn’t go it out of the good of his heart – therefore a team order exists.

          To me the fact is it shouldn’t matter what the circumstances are and for what position it is. Overtaking is an art, not a charity, and any command from a team which gives an outcome which is different to that if team mates were racing is a team order.

          I’ve avoided getting into this whole thing as I do sit on the fence and can see both points of view, but the fact that it was by Ferrari and so blantant is why there is such an uproar. I remember a few times when ITV were commentating and a coded “yield to your team mate” command came though over team radio and James Allen and Martin Brundle knew exactly what was going on, driver would yield and there would be no further discussions, no raised voices, no points of debate. My point is its nothing new. Team orders have been in F1 from the very start.

          Every team has committed team orders and we have been comfortable with it. Gilles Villeneuve and Tony Collins would have a high possibility of being World Champions if it wasn’t for team orders and we are comfortable with it. Before the 1978 season even started Ronnie Peterson was the number 2 Lotus driver.

          1. Having read your comment a couple of times I’m not sure if you’re for or against! (It was Peter Collins, though).

            But from the point of view of the hearing, Hockenheim 2010 was proven to be team orders, Hockenheim 2008 hasn’t been. Maybe there was an order from McLaren on the radio but it hasn’t come to light.

            1. As mentioned I’m on the fence. I think this is the only issue I’ve come across where Im not 100% sure on what way to go.

              Peter Collins, Tony Brooks – you got me. I mixed them up.

        2. Keith I have the upmost respect for you as you really seem to genuinely care about sporting principles but I don’t understand some of what you’re saying.

          If you say that there was no team orders then I accept that. There was no proof of course but

          “Hockenheim 2008 was hardly the same as Hockenheim 2010 though, was it?”

          Was this because of the blatant way Ferrari did it? If so, then that means the application of the rule and whether it is right or wrong depends upon how the fans react. Ferrari took everyone for fools but the issue was the team orders themselves not the emotional response. Other acts of team orders also take the fans for fools just for giving a wink and a nod and a subtle message too.

          “No way was Kovalainen going to keep Hamilton behind – even Massa couldn’t”

          Massa wasn’t Hamilton’s team mate and you’re assuming Kovy would have been worse then Massa when we just don’t know if he would have been if a team order was in fact given. Massa’s never been a strong defender and look at Turkey of the same year when Hamilton was flying where Felipe just let him by. Spa 2008 there was barely time for a team message and he just let Kimi through.

          1. Was this because of the blatant way Ferrari did it?

            No, it was because Massa had clearly beaten Alonso and then the team interfered with the result – as the WMSC found.

            1. That’s not what I’m arguing with Keith because that was wrong but you said Hock 2010 was different and I just wondered why.

              Also, I’d like to calrify BasCB that I don’t agree with team orders and I’ve never said someone moving out of the way is ok. I didn’t even enjoy Brazil 07 and Massa didn’t have a chance there! :)

              I agree Hamilton owned everyone that day and again I never said there were team orders I’m saying if there were team orders and exploring that option esp because it was given as an example above not because I’m trying to pick on someone else. I know what Ferrari did was wrong.

              Also, using the speed argument of how quick Hamilton was and how far infront he was is slightly ironic given the message Masssa got :P

            2. The verdict says that Ferrari changed the race order of their drivers.

              Even Ferrari argued that Alonso would eventually have gotten past Massa and thus their orders weren’t illegal because they didn’t interfere with the race result.

              Oddly enough they don’t apply the same reasoning to Hockenheim 2008.

              Hamilton didn’t need team orders to get past Kovalainen. he would have gotten past anyway.

              Alonso never was going to get past Massa unless there were team orders.

              This difference is the “interfere with the race result” part of the rule.

          2. Steph, Hamilton finished the race 12 seconds ahead of Kovalainen. He pulled out this gap over 17 laps, which is impressive even before you count him having to follow and overtake two other cars as well.

            Hamilton mugged everyone that day. If anyone seriously believes Kovalainen would have put up a more spirited resistance than Piquet or Massa then I think you have to consider what race they were actually watching.

            It is in any case highly doubtful that if there was an order, it was “Hamilton’s coming through, don’t get in his way”. Hamilton showed that day that he didn’t need anyone to move over for him – it would just be a lot easier when he was chasing the lead after the team threw a spanner in the works with his strategy for the sake of his team-mate not having to queue up behind him and fall out of the points! McLaren knew that day they could get away with it and get the maximum points result they could and both Heikki and Lewis repaid that trust.

            1. “That the order was anything but”, rather.

          3. I think Keith’s right there Steph.

            Moving over just to have change the finishing order around is not OK, as you agree judging on being critical of these changes in 2007 and 2008.
            And to have the team do it like they did to Massa, no need to clear how bad that is.

            But for me a team mate moving over to save the other one time while doing a completely different race strategy and being considerably faster with a realistic chance to overtake another 1-3 others on track makes sense and should not be punished.

            That’s the same as for some of the backmarkers deciding not to fight too hard with Alonso in Monaco this year, it’s their (and their teams) tactical choise to make.

            I am totally with you about hating it if they hide TO behind some technical glitches or bothched pitstop or something. If done, make it done openly so we get to know what’s going on. We’re not stupid enough not to notice.

            1. The last paragraph is why they should always investigate if drivers change order (under suspicious circumstances).

              Even when the team ordered Massa to tune his engine down and Alonso to keep his on maximum seting, that is an illegal team order.

              For instance, they should have investigated Red Bull for doing that in Turkey.

              The FIA can see this from the communication and telemetry so there is no fooling them with tricks like that.

    11. Get well soon, Ed!

    12. Someone robbed Karun?, man that is just rude.

      Go rob Piers Morgan instead you lowlifes.

    13. We can debate forever about team orders, it won’t change, more importantly best wishes to Ed, hope you’re doing well. Vettel into Hamilton who then hits Button, who hits Alonso, massa veers of track and webber takes the lead…. Ner ner

    Comments are closed.