More Lotus-vs-Lotus reaction

F1 Fanatic round-up

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One story dominates the otherwise rather quiet F1 news agenda at the moment.


Dany Bahar unconcerned by Lotus F1 duplication (BBC)

“For me, four are better than two. The controversy, that is something that has mainly been pushed up by media I would say, has been dealt with directly by our shareholders in Malaysia and with the owners of the 1Malaysia racing team, and doesn’t really touch us.”

An exciting new era for Enstone (Renault F1)

“While the name above the door may have changed down the years, the people who have helped make this team a winner remain. We should never forget that the strength of any team rests in the people that make it up – we’re all links in a chain. The other thing that remains unchanged is the hunger for success and determination to see Enstone back on top of the world. Whatever we’ve been called, that has remained a constant.”

A balanced view of the Lotus-Lotus situation (Metro F1)

“Dany Bahar is a marketing visionary. When Red Bull Racing first came on the scene in 2005 they did things bigger, better and more creatively than any team before.

That massive push – the Energy Station, the huge hedonistic parties, The Red Bulletin, the Unas, the movie tie-ins – lasted until Dany left for Ferrari in 2007. Then Red Bull stopped having fun. As I mentioned in one of my Abu Dhabi posts, they might have won the world championship, but in large part they have lost their identity.”

Predictions revisited (Motorsport Musings)

Dan Cross looks back on his predictions from earlier this year. The F1 Fanatic predictions made by all of us earlier this year will be reviewed here in a forthcoming article…

British F3 revs up a web design competition (British F3)

“Young web designers and developers looking to get their careers on to the starting grid are being sought to help design the new official British F3 website in a competition to find the 2011 Cooper Tires British F3 Web Apprentice.”

Jenson Button's seat fitting in the McLaren MP4-26

View from the factory: December 8th (McLaren)

“This was the week that the drivers’ 2011 preparations really kicked into gear. On Tuesday and Wednesday, Jenson completed his seat-fitting for the 26A. Two days? That’s right – it’s a time-consuming, laborious process that’s best to get right first time, rather than risk it having to be repeated at a later stage because it wasn’t perfect in those initial sessions.”

Comment of the day

Hundreds of comments were posted on the Lotus stories yesterday, most of which came down on the side of Tony Fernandes’ operation. Here’s one from TacitErn:

1) Tony Fernandes has without doubt earned the right and respect to race as Team Lotus. Group Lotus have as yet done nothing but posture.

2) Team Lotus acquired the Lotus F1 brand from David Hunt, if anyone can draw a line back to the original Lotus F1 team its Team Lotus. For Group Lotus to suggest they have any connection with the original F1 team is ridiculous.

3) There are workers at the Team Lotus factory in Hingham that worked on the original Lotus F1 cars for the original F1 team. I doubt there is anyone in Group Lotus who can make this claim.

Hopefully the UK courts will clear this up for us. I would hope a decent bloke like Robert Kubica is embarrassed to be associated with this mess.

From the forum

Readers pick their favourite quotes of the year.

Site updates

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Happy birthday!

A very happy birthday to Myles Woerner!

On this day in F1

Three years ago today Martin Brundle hit out at the FIA who were threatening him with a lawsuit at the time:

I expect my accreditation pass for next year will be hindered in some way to make my coverage of F1 more difficult and to punish me. Or they will write to ITV again to say that my commentary is not up to standard despite my unprecedented six Royal Television Society Awards for sports broadcasting. So be it.

Author information

Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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99 comments on “More Lotus-vs-Lotus reaction”

  1. Dany Bahar is a marketing visionary.

    Well, that’s in line with his comments that he doesn’t mind four Lotus cars on the grid. Since they’ll both be Lotus-Renault and will both be running in black and gold liveries, he’s basically getting free publicity from Tony Fernandes – Team Lotus will look like a spin-off from Group Lotus because Group Lotus will no doubt be performing better in 2011. So Bahar has essentially turned Team Lotus into a pseudo-Toro Rosso.

    Not cool.

    1. For once (probably) i agree with Pris Monk. At the end of the day, what Bahar after is result that could leverage Lotus Cars sales performance, so in my opinion collaborating with the Enstone based team is more viable option rather backing up the Ingham based team.

      1. But the problem is that he’s using Team Lotus to do it because Team Lotus will look like a Lotus-Renault B-team. It’s okay when Red Bull do it with Toro Rosso, but that’s because they are owned by the same company. What Bahar is doing is essentially the equivalent of someone taking control of Ferrari, re-naming them McLaren and painting them silver so that the team will boost McLaren’s profile.

        1. From a business point of view wouldn’t that be a cheaper option? regardless right or wrong.

          1. Yes, it’s a cheaper option – but it’s also incredibly unethical. Dany Bahar has no control and no influence over Tony Fernandes. Group Lotus-Renault and Team Lotus-Renault are two entirely different entities, but Bahar is using Team Lotus-Renault to fulfil Group Lotus-Renault’s marketing objectives. It’s like if I make desk chairs, and I make them exactly the same as my competition’s desk chairs and even give my company a similar name to the competition. I then use their name and image to sell my product. The difference here is that Bahar has bought into a team that will almost certainly beat Feranndes’ outfit on the track. It’s anti-competitive behaviour, and it’s illegal.

          2. Ahhhh but F1 isn’t marketing, it’s sport.

            Bahahaha who am i kidding :D

          3. Whether it’s marketing or a sport is inconsequential – the point is that Bahar is using his rivals to make him look better at their expense, which is anti-competitive behaviour.

          4. Except Team Lotus have the ability to use a different livery and other means to distance themselves from the Lotus brand.

            I honestly dont see what the fuss is about. Team Lotus is a really pathetic F1 team, while Group Lotus is an amazing F1 team. Who ever is faster will win the peoples respect at the end.

          5. I also don’t see what all the fuss is about. Give it a few weeks/months and it will all be sorted out. There will be a winner and a loser or a compromise like always.

            This is F1, when isn’t there anticompetitive behaviour?
            Spy-gate(s) Crash-gate, lie-gate etc
            and now (dare i say it) lotus-gate :P the list goes on

          6. Team Lotus is a really pathetic F1 team, while Group Lotus is an amazing F1 team. Who ever is faster will win the peoples respect at the end.

            I have to disagree with you.

            Team Lotus are a team that started from nothing 6 months before the start of the 2010 season and managed to beat both of the other new teams. They have put things in place for 2011 which many people in the know have said could catapult them into the midfield. They are in this to build racing cars and ultimately to try and win. That deserves respect.

            Group Lotus have never built an F1 car in their life. They are a sponsor and minority shareholder of a team which in 2008 colluded to fix the result of a race. They are in this to try and sell cars – cars which in the not too distant future will cease to be true to what made Lotus great. They are pathetic.

            Speed isn’t everything, otherwise Hamilton, Alonso and Schumacher would be universally loved. You have to earn people’s respect through the way you conduct yourself, which is why teams like Minardi and Super Aguri were so popular.

          7. Except Team Lotus have the ability to use a different livery and other means to distance themselves from the Lotus brand.

            But they shouldn’t be forced to – it’s looking pretty apparent that Tony Fernandes has a much stronger claim to the Lotus name than Dany Bahar. Fernandes shouldn’t have to step aside and let Bahar have his way simply because Bahar wants what Fernandes already has.

          8. Bahar didn’t agree rename Lotus Racing 2 Team Lotus that all…

    2. Oh woah, I haven’t thought of it like that till now PM. That would be not cool indeed.

      1. I think it is also the reason that Team Lotus will claim damages from the High Court trail. It is an attempt at passing off as the Team Lotus racing team, effectively.

        And with money from F1 for a large part in the ability to attract sponsors, this Bahar Lotus is diluting the market. So they really do need to win that trial, or they might have to pay a lot of damages, and still have to make sure to not be lotus in F1.

        1. It’s not a trial. There is no financial aspect to it. All they are doing is asking the courts to decide who has ownership of the Team Lotus name. If Fernandes wins, Bahar won’t have to pay him a dime – he’ll just have to stop using the Lotus name.

          1. Thats really stupid though. How can Group Lotus (the big shots who make money from selling Lotus cars) not be allowed to use their own cars brand in F1?

            I dont see how a court would pass any judgement in Team Lotus’s favour, and if they did it would be a very bias decision because it makes no sense.

            For all we know, Team Lotus knew Group Lotus wanted to enter F1 in 2011 and so they purposely put themselves in this position in order to gain some high ground. After all, such huge investments dont happen over night, they happen over years.

          2. Jarred Walmsley
            9th December 2010, 10:07

            Umm, because they dont own the rights to use their name in F1

            Lotus being two companies, Group Lotus (road cars) and Lotus Racing. Both companies founded by Colin but kept seperate, now Lotus Racing entered F1 and did rather well getting good drivers, and then quit in 1994. A new team then came along brought the rights to use the name LOTUS (and only Lotus no racing or team JUST Lotus) from Group Lotus, and entered in the 2010 season winning the hearts of many for their attitude. Then Group Lotus decided they wanted in on this publicity and brought title sponsership of Renault and renamed the team.

            So, to answer your question because they don’t own the rights to use the racing side of the company as they are completely seperate. It’s not like Fiat and Alfa using the same tech and names because they are owned by the same parent company but Lotus Racing and the car manufacturer are completely different

          3. For all we know, Team Lotus knew Group Lotus wanted to enter F1 in 2011 and so they purposely put themselves in this position in order to gain some high ground.

            If that were true, why did Group Lotus give Lotus Racing permission to use their Lotus name in 2010? Surely they’d block Lotus Racing from using it?

          4. Well, he will have to stop using it and referring to it as ‘his’ possibly with a penalty for not conferring, and Fernandez can base a claim for damages already caused on that as well.

            I followed the comments about Team Lotus possibly staying with the British Racing Green livery next year after 3/4 of fans told them they would like that.
            It worked to get even more fans involved with the Team Lotus through the competition and polls.
            What if Fernandez only stated the intention to go for Black/Gold to lure Bahar into copying him?

            Now he can stay with more classic Lotus colours and Bahar is stuck with a sublimal tabacco add car, copying and abusing/violating Tony’s rights (to change his colours now would hurt Bahars ego to much i suppose).

  2. this is so pathetic…

  3. I’ve been waiting a solid year for the day when I could read my name on the f1fanatic round-up. Thanks for the birthday wish, Keith!

    1. happy birthday myles!

    2. Happy B-day!

    3. Happy birthday Myles :) Hope it was worth the wait!

    4. It’s a cool feeling to get a birthday message from F1F :) Have a good one!

    5. Hi Myles, the wait has finally come to an end for you: It’s your birthday, so concratualations and enjoy the day :-D

    6. Happy Birthday!!! :D Have a fab day!

    7. Haha, hilarious! :D

      Have a great day. May all your wishes come true this year.

      1. Thanks everyone!

  4. Michael Griffin
    9th December 2010, 0:35

    Lotus’ – How can the FIA let two teams with such ridiculously similar names, and probably even liveries, compete in the same season of F1? Unbelievable.

    Some will say neither are the “real Lotus” as they do not have the “Chapman DNA”. Well I would’ve thought that was impossible as is no longer with us…but, the Chapman family, the people who’s opinion I’d take over anyone else in this matter, firmly back the Fernandes/Gascoyne Lotus. As do I.

    How ironic though that Heikki and Jarno both drove for Renault before eventually ending up at Lotus, and the tea they left is now called Lotus too…

    McLaren – Jenson fitted in the 26A? Does that mean he has the number one car or am I picking that up all wrong?

    1. Michael Griffin
      9th December 2010, 0:37

      So many errors in that. Note to self – don’t post comments in bed after midnight.

      1. You’ve said that before, haven’t you?! :)

    2. well… Scuderia Toro Rossi it’s just Red Bull Team, in italian :P… and the liveries weren’t that different! specially from the front.

      1. But the difference is that Red Bull and Toro Rosso are owned by the same company. Group Lotus and Team Lotus are not. In fact, they’re rivals. The whole legal dispute over the name is a testament to that.

        And you can also tell the difference between the Red Bull and the Toro Rosso: Red Bull has a yellow nose and roll-hoop; Toro Rosso has a red nose and a red engine cowling.

        1. toro rosso also have gold where redbull have yellow, and their bulls are textured where as redbulls are block colour. The toro rosso actually has more detail in the paint scheme and looks better, except the gold/yellow thing.

          1. I prefer the RBR to the Torro Rosso ten fold. That bright yellow just pops and is easily identifiable, much as it was on the Renaults this year. Too bad that livery will be gone for ’11.

          2. I have to say – I really like the scarlet charging bull on the Toro Rosso engine cover.

      2. Everyone knows “Red Bull” is just a perversion of the proud Italian name ;)

    3. How can the FIA let two teams with such ridiculously similar names, and probably even liveries, compete in the same season of F1?

      They can’t, and won’t. I posted a question on James Allen’s blog asking about this very subject, and he replied to say he was already looking into it.

      The FIA are not “letting” two teams compete under the same name. They simply haven’t commented on it yet. And they probably won’t for some time yet. There are rules that have to be observed, due process that has to be undertaken. The FIA can’t just pounce on one of the teams without any thought on the matter. They’re probably mulling it over in Paris as we speak, and Bernie Ecclestone will be doing the same in London. My bet is that they’re going to wait for the outcome of the legal action taken over the use of the name before they say anything. They’re not going to want to say one thing and have the courts contradict them again. Not after the issue with Flavio Briatore. They’ll take their time, consider their options, and release a statement and an official verdict once they feel they have found a fair ruling. Just because they haven’t said anything straight away doesn’t mean they’re not going to say anything at all.

      Jenson fitted in the 26A? Does that mean he has the number one car or am I picking that up all wrong?

      It doesn’t mean anyting. Individual chassis designation has no bearing on anything at all. When he drove for Brawn GP, Button was #22 and Barrichello #23, but Barrichello drove the chassis designated BGP-001/1 (and later BGP-001/3 when he wrote the car off in Singapore qualifying) whilst Button drove BGP-001/2. If Button is in the McLaren MP/4-26A, it doesn’t affect anything. It just means that it was the first chassis from the MP/4-26 line that was built; for all we know, the ‘A’ chassis in each line is only a monocoque built for the purposes of seat fitting and never actually raced. McLaren have enough money to do that; they’ll build as many as eight chassis in a year (unlike Brawn, who could only afford three – which means Button won the championship in the car he started it in, making it one of the oldest cars to win a title). Button will still be carrying the #4 and Hamilton the #3 next year.

    4. Don’t forget in the official 2011 FIA entry list Tony’s team are entered and accepted as Team Lotus with the cars registered as Lotus Renault, where as Bahar’s team are entered and accepted as Renault F1 Team with the cars registered as Renault…… so at the moment the FIA have not got a problem. Despite all the posturing in the press and no matter what the court action, it’s Behar not Tony that has to persuade the FIA to allow them to be called Lotus Renault…. and remember what happened with BMW Sauber…. they may take quite a lot of persuading.

  5. If the Team Lotus’ car looks like this i think we all know who we will be be supporting next year (although maybe without the confusing renault sign)!

    1. Oh god yes! That livery ….. Bwah! those lines those curve! La beauté est scandaleux! I am in love!

      On the other hand, the more I hear about Bahar’s ambitions, or him speak… the more I turn to Team Lotus. The amount of respect I have for Team Lotus being built from scratch is worth ten times more than the better results group lotus will undoubtedly get next year.

      I still can’t believe how petty Bahar has been with the livery…..

      1. Petty seems to pretty much sum up what Bahar’s trying to do.

    2. That livery is awesome!!

    3. Makes me wish Team Lotus weren’t using Renault engines. I heard awhile back that at one point Williams were looking into using Renault engines. Williams Renault sounds great, like it did back in the day, but if we had Team Lotus Cosworth, and Lotus Renault Racing, I don’t think it would be so confusing.

      I hope the English Courts stop Bahar from swooping in and riding Renault’s coat tails. He may have been good for Red Bull and for Ferrari, but that guy just needs to stand still, or he’ll risk sinking the whole ship!

      I say Fernandes should let the posuers have the batmobile livery, he should tell Renault to take a hike, switch back to Cosworth and revive the old Red and Gold livery of the even older days.

      1. Nice idea, but the chances of Lotus returing to Cosworth engines now are precisely nil

        Oh, and love that livery!

    4. That looks like a much better job than the Group Lotus effort – the red end plates are hideous…

      1. If Lotus-Renault must have the red Total endplates, they should have went for the Red, Gold and White colours of the old Gold Leaf Team Lotus. Firstly that would have made their team unique and stand out from Team Lotus, and it would make the corporate colours fit better.

        To simple a solution for F1? :P

    5. The entries for the competition closed on Sunday. That’s not one of them. You can find the finalists here:

      I personally like the 8th from the beginning, the 5th from the end and the 9th from the end.

      1. That’s strange, Heikki posted on Twitter yesterday that his vote was for this livery, and it’s not on the list?

        Also, Mike Gascoyne was asking fans to send in their vote regarding the colour scheme, and the vast majority said to stick with the green/yellow. Perhaps they are now thinking of sticking with what they have?

      2. They can’t be the finalists as those have been up since before the competition closed.

      3. Haha! I like all the scanned ones that were drawn with magic markers, and the ones that look like they were done in MS Paint.

    6. This is an entry for the livery contest I assume?

      But no matter what I still think this design is just so much more beautiful than the one keith posted of the R30 yesterday. Real golden in stead of something half-assed sand colour.

  6. This whole Lotus-Lotus things is really confusing me a lot. We thought that the winter break will be quiet, now talk.

    1. It’ll probably be dead quiet again now until there’s a court ruling, then there’ll be a ton of debate again.

      1. So back to court again.

  7. Ugh, this is so easy to fix; we’ll have Lotus-Lotus in black and Renault-Renault in gold. You’re welcome Jean.

    1. Yeah, but then they’re going to be arguing who is who. Both teams will want to be “Lotus-Lotus”. It doesn’t fix anything.

    2. If only it were that simple..

  8. Lotus vs Lotus reminds me of Spartacus

  9. Nothing to do with these stories (sorry), but I have found a pattern that has been in place since 2007. The winner of one season, the next season he wins a couple and becomes no lower than 3rd, the other two being 5th.

    Let me show you….

    ’07: K Raikkonen WDC (’08, 2wins, finish 3rd) poor season
    ’08: L Hamilton WDC (’09 2wins, finish 5th) poor season
    ’09: J Button WDC (’10 2wins, finish 5th) poor season?
    ’10: S Vettel WDC (2011 will he be poor next season??)

    No disrespect to Vettel, but me being a Hamilton fan, I hope this pattern continues. Fingers crossed lol.

    1. im sorry but how was finishing 3rd in the championship a poor season?? yes the 2 wins was disappointing for kimi that year but finishing 3rd is by no way a poor season!!!!

      1. Am I the only guy who thought Kimi had a poor season in 2008? Apart from two wins, he looked like he wasn’t there anymore. Even Mr Brundle said it in Singapore, he couldn’t be bothered anymore.

        1. No, I’m with you on that, Raikonnen was really disapointing in 2008, a few excellent drives aside. It was as though he lost all motivation after he won the champiosnhip in the previous season. If he had of been on form the 2008 title would have been his for the taking.

          1. His teammate beat him, Kimi the world champion beaten by the one guy he doesn’t want to be beaten by, quite convincingly by Massa. Bad year.

      2. I always thought Kimi got more stick than he deserved in 08. He had hsi engine blow up in Hungary (I think Mclaren only had one failure all year and that was with Heikki), he was taken out by Lewis going bananas at both Canada and Japan, he was well ahead of Felipe at China, he had a nightmare at Monaco which was partly down to him and the the team but he was recovering well until he took poor Adrian out and at Silverstone Ferrari once again mucked up their tyre strategy but he coped far better than Massa. At Spa, he was on for the win but the rain hit and the F2008 was generally accepted as a car that struggled in such conditions and when I watched how hard he fought with Hamilton I can’t say he lost motivation.

        Kimi had a year with blunders from him and the team, the car didn’t fit him so well as it had the year before and he had Massa to deal with. I just think things came more towards him the season previously rather than him losing all of his hunger to win.

        1. Guilherme Teixeira
          10th December 2010, 1:12

          I agree with Steph.

          Yes, he wasn’t great in 2008 but things didn’t go his way. He lost a win in France due to the exhaust problem and a likely win in Canada when Hamilton crashed into him while he was on course to, ahem, lead the race. Spa was a lotery and as Steph poited out, he was forced off the track in Japan when he was battling for the lead on the first corner, so it was a good(ish) season with a bit of bad luck. Of course, after his title bid ended in Spa (where no one can say he wasn’t motivated!) he couldn’t be bothered anymore.

  10. Bahar himself admits the entire setup is a marketing strategy. This is a sport, for heaven’s sake!

    The worst part is that Kubica will undoubtedly give them some giant killing performances that they can use to humiliate Team Lotus. Ugh. I only hope the FIA doesn’t favour the Enstone team on some ridiculous performance basis.

  11. As I mentioned in one of my Abu Dhabi posts, they might have won the world championship, but in large part they have lost their identity.”

    Glad I’m not the only one who thinks this. Interesting theory on how it came about, and much earlier than I started to perceive it. I guess that’s what happens when you want to be truly successful in modern F1, you get sucked into the bad habits.

  12. How can they say Brundle isn’t good enough, nobody on TV can navigate the pre race grid better than Martin and his camara man, and in the commentary box his coworker always gets criticised because Martin sets a high standard. Plus he has his similes and metaphors. “Understeer like a Channel ferry” being one of the better examples.

  13. In response to “Dany Bahar unconcerned by Lotus F1 duplication” – he should be!

    His Group Lotus is only a title sponsor of Lotus-Renault GP. The chassis and engine is still a Renault and its established that these can’t change this year. All the timing screens, the onscreen graphics, the results on the F1 website will all say RENAULT – nowhere are title sponsors mentioned except in official team literature.

    You never see Marlboro, Vodafone or Petronas mentioned anywhere and I’m sure the other teams will soon kick up a massive fuss if Group Lotus (as title sponsor) gets their name on screen.

    Officially the only Lotus next year will be Tony’s.

    1. Bahar smart guy..
      Outsourcing and get maximum bnfit..
      that business…

  14. All have a look at that article on the Renault pages Keith posted here.
    I notice, they pretty much downplay the significance of “the name above the door” with going form Toleman to Benneton to Renault to now Group Lotus Renault, but still staying the same team of racing people based in Enstone.
    Glad the racers there understand this is not a good name change. I support these guys but the team will have to be called the ‘the Enstone team‘!

    1. Or just go back to Toleman…

  15. Tony Fernandes is just riding this thing out, waiting for a healthy sum of money and then rebrands his team. Team Air Asia or something like that.

    And since there’s no such thing as bad publicity, everybody profits: Lotus(Proton) will have their team launched with a lot of of free press and buzz. Whereas Tony will also benefit, because without all this fuzz, he would never have the same free publicity. Had he just called his team ‘AirAsia’ from the start, no-one would’ve bothered as much as people now do (see for example the poll on this site).

    Indeed both Fernandes and Bahar really know their marketing!

    And if this marketing makes racing these cars possible, so be it.

    (although I still feel that neither is entitled to call themselves Lotus, but that is another thing)

    1. I think there would be the most almighty backlash by the fans of the sport against Fernandes if he’s looking for a big paycheck to end this. I hope it isnt the case, the F1 fans have welcomed him and accepted his team as being worthy of the [Team] Lotus name, with endorsments by the Chapman family and seems to be getting more support from people as this saga drags.

    2. agreed both rename or rebatch…
      Renault – Lotus Renault GP
      Lotus Racing (L…revoke)- Team Lotus

    3. agreed both rename or rebatch…
      Renault – Lotus Renault GP
      1Malaysia – Lotus Racing (L…revoke)- Team Lotus

  16. I feel myself siding with fernandez as do most here. However, why the hell did he get into this position?
    His F1 company is 1Malaysia something (this is the company Renault agreed their engine supply to when announced last month)and they licensed the lotus name from Proton. This undoubtedly helped him in some way either through sponsorship or his ego; so why not have the naming contract gold plated and well tied down for several years?
    Along comes Bahar, big plans for Lotus cars and associated racing programs; finds he needs or wants control of Lotus’ F1 racing program as part of this wider plan and just ends the agreement with Fernandez!
    Hasn’t Fernandez been the villain of the peace by signing a poor deal in the beginning, and once finding out what is going on buying the Team Lotus name from the Chapmans or whoever owned it in order to scupper Proton? Or even worse did he license for a short time knowing he could get the Team Lotus name by other means?
    Why would you start a F1 team from scratch but use an old name promoting a car company’s products that you will have no financial benefit from?

    I find the whole thing odd.

  17. I am 100% sure, as Prisoner Monkeys, that the FIA will intervene and not allow two teams to run as “Lotus”. And no two teams will be allowed JPS livery, either.

    It would be interesting to know whether the ex-Renault mob have spoken to the FIA before releasing their press-release. They surely must have done because they surely must have realised that they would them off otherwise.

    Did Fernandes only secure the “Lotus” name for one season? That seems incredibly short-sighted. Do Lotus Group hold the rights over this use or are the waters completely muddied because of this split definition between the car manufacturer and the racing heritage? All this Lotus Group/Chapman family/James Hunt mish-mash is very confusing.

    I think this is why we are in this mess. The legalities are not straight forward at all. This is why we have two groups believing they have the rights to use the name and JPS livery.

    Some body somewhere must have the rights to that JPS livery. Somehow, I doubt very much that is Group Lotus, considering they never raced. Surely the right has to be given to use this livery?

    There are a great deal of cries from commentators on this site that this debate is hurting the sport. But this is off-season. My guess is that Bernie is loving all the extra attention F1 is getting in the papers at the moment. I doubt the FIA will intervene before the Parisien courts have their say or before the story has been milked for all it’s worth.

    Apologies if I’ve asked questions already answered in the different articles on this. I have read many of the comments but not all.

    1. +1

      I can’t see, after Ferrari was made to remove their subliminal Marlboro advertising barcode, how either Renault or Team Lotus will be allowed to use the JPS livery. Using Black and gold is ok, but in the style & layout that the Renault livery is in the photos, everybody knows that that is JPS tobacco. A JPS person even said they are very happy to be getting free advertising (and that was when it was only two cars).

      Renault using this Livery would be akin to Ferrari when they couldn’t use their barcode anymore suddenly switching their livery to the old Marlboro Mclaren livery and saying “no its fine, it has nothing to do with Marlboro”

      Tobacco Advertising is illegal and that includes subliminal. These historic tobacco liverys belong in the past.

      1. That didn’t occur to me. Very good point!

  18. I hope Tony Fernandes sues the hell out Group Lotus. Bahar is a complete parasite.

  19. Regarding the Metro F1 article, did Dany Bahar join Red Bull when they took Jaguar over in 2005 or was he already employed by Jaguar? Because Jaguar were during movie tie-in promotions before they were taken over.

  20. Completely off topic: I just bought this for my sons first birthday. He will be one year old on monday.

    My Ferrari fandays are more from the Schumi / Kimi area, however, I couldn’t resist.

    I will love to put on my radio voice to give him some advice: “Full mixture 5”, “You have to brake a little later” and the inevitable “Fernando is faster then you!”

    However I do fear for some rookie mistakes, coming from the pressure of starting your career at the wheel of a Ferrari… Then again, if you can’t cope with the pressure, you can always put your car in the wall, to help your teammate win.

  21. Go home, Dany Bahar!

  22. Just ordered two season review DVDs from Amazon, the 2008 Hamilton and the 2009 Button ones. Dirt cheap, a couple of quid each, hopefully they make it up to Scotland soon through the snow!!

    1. wow that is cheap. Ive now ordered them too, thanks for that Calum :) keep warm.

  23. This is still a massive gamble by Group Lotus/Bahar. Sure Renault was 5th this year, but im sure noone will say they predicted this 12months ago, questions over their cars speed was questionable until the season started. They had a dog of a car for 2 years, theres pratically no guarentee that they can emulated last season in 2011, moreso that the regulations have changed somewhat (no double diffuser/F-duct which worked very well). Hamilton won the WDC in 2008 and turned up for 2009 with a car that was midfield at best for around 10 races. Im not saying that they will be naff, but 5th place could be a big asking for them to achieve.

    Formula 1 is a fickle mistress, it can take as quickly as it can give and its most certainly capable of landing the mother of all eggs on your face.

  24. Great piece from Will Buxton about Lotus. Which one? You’ll have to read it to find out…

    Made me realise that the team just renamed “Lotus Renault” once raced (as Toleman) against both the original Lotus and Renault teams…and raises the “they started it, no they did” argument over the black-and-gold livery. Also introduced me to a wonderful blog by Jean-Louis Moncet.

    I’m now hoping the Fernandes/Trulli/Kovalainen Lotus team stick with green-and-yellow – but either way we’ll have four great-looking cars on the grid next year.

    1. The best part is Buxton’s Photoshopped “Lotus?” livery.

    2. Bullfrog, many thanks for the link. That was very informative from Buxton.

  25. WHAT A MESS.

  26. So, what if Red Bull sold their softdrink division to Pepsi, but did not sell the F1 team. And then Pepsi tries 20 years later to enter their own Red Bull F1 team. Would they be correct to do so? That is essentially what Group Lotus has done.

    1. Nice way of putting it mate!

    2. No it’s not.

      A more accurate example would be;

      What if Red Bull Racing was owned by the same owner as Red Bull Drinks but had nothing else in common with the brand and then Red Bull Drinks wan’t to enter F1 as Red Bull F1 Team or some-other such.

      The Red Bull example is a terrible one that I think is confusing people.

      Group Lotus (or Lotus Cars as it was) has never, ever, ever built an F1 car or entered an F1 car into a Grand Prix. Team Lotus (or Lotus F1 if you prefer) were the racing team and were ALWAYS kept SEPARATE from the road car company. The fact they are both called Lotus is merely coincidental.

      If the racing team had been called Colin Chapman Racing or Team Chapman there wouldn’t be all this confusion.

      As for those suggesting that it will be confusing to F1 fans if there are 2 Lotus teams on the grid next year….let’s hope none of them watch WRC where their can be several teams running Imprezas or Focus’s or C4’s…

  27. Lotus Racing lisence from Group Lotus?
    revoke back 2 Group Lotus brand Lotus
    Group Lotus – PROTON
    Team Lotus – Tony buy and use it not Lotus only
    now Lotus – ?

  28. Keith, post a poll so we can choose wich Lotus really deserves the Lotus name.


    And now, I hope, things with Lotus will go back to normal. Big thanks to the Chapman family for being sensible.

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