Virgin and HRT will not use Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems in 2011, according to engine supplier Cosworth.
Their general manager of F1 operations Mark Gallagher told F1 Fanatic:
At the moment Williams are the only one of our customers who are going to be using KERS in 2011. Virgin and HRT are not.
Both those teams have expressed an interest in KERS for 2012.
Mark Gallagher
A Virgin spokesperson said the final decision on whether to use KERS next year had not been taken yet:
“We are awaiting the outcome of the treatment of KERS in the resource restriction agreement discussions before we make a final decision on running with it or not.”
HRT declined to comment. Former Cosworth users Lotus have already said they will not have KERS on their cars at the start of the season.
F1 Fanatic’s complete interview with Mark Gallagher will be on the site later this week.
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Image © Virgin Racing
Magnificent Geoffrey (@magnificent-geoffrey)
21st December 2010, 8:41
I suppose they have a good reason, because otherwise that decision seems a little bon-KERS to me.
jimscreechy (@)
21st December 2010, 9:33
Yes I suspect it’s financing. I can see them consistently not making the starting grid with the 107% rule..
Scribe
21st December 2010, 13:56
HRT ohh, could be pretty vicious, still, I suppose the question is, what midfeild teams arn’t using KERS. An how is this going to effect the new teams efforts to get amongst the scoring.
driftin
21st December 2010, 8:46
Oh boy, they’re really going to be at the back of the field this year, even more than last.
Adam Smith
21st December 2010, 8:54
Yeah but a lack of KERS doesn’t always mean its a bad thing. It adds a lot of weight to the car and many teams struggled with balance, and yet the two teams at the front in 2009 were teams that did not use KERS.
Yes KERS is a bit more developed and teams will now more about it and how to use it more effectively, but not having might not be the end of the world.
GeeMac (@geemac)
21st December 2010, 9:17
But the cars have to be heavier next year and have to run a certain wieght distribution too…all to encourage KERS useage.
So KERS will be more of an advantage in 2011 than it was in 2009…or at least that’s the plan.
Feynman
21st December 2010, 9:19
But the car weight limit is increased for 2011, and doesn’t much matter anyway in this case, as the teams all agreed a fixed front-rear weight distribution for the new Pirelli tyres.
Even if you have KERS-sized amount of ballast, I don’t see how it does you any good this year. (Apart from budget).
Everyone else will boost out of the slow corners and more quickly start to feel the effect of their folded-down rear wing, a double whammy that’ll leave these two teams even more detatched from their rivals.
BasCB
21st December 2010, 9:25
Even if the weight penalty is a bit less than it was in 2009, i expect the judge is still out on weather KERS really brings the crucial advantage.
Instead of focussing on bringing another new system into the package (to fit with Cosworth and the gearbox) where they nor their partners have solid experience, i suppose Wirth is focussing on making the most of the aerodynamics and the moveable rear wing.
As for HRT, i suppose they will have the engine and Williams rear end confirmed (do they have the funds?), but it might well be, that they will be doing a tough job getting the rest of the car together, let alone incorporate KERS (or the rear wing). I suppose that if they survive, they might get the Williams KERS package for the year after that.
wasiF1
21st December 2010, 9:44
A lack of KERS will give them some good chance to develope more on aerodynamics.
SoerenKaae (@soerenkaae)
21st December 2010, 9:47
I think it is only resources that hold them back seeing as Williams Hybrid Power will make the KERS for Williams-Cosworth, and HRT will be using the same package. And still I do not understand why they choose not to spend their money on KERS. They do not stand the risk of developing something that doesnt work, and Williams make one of the best KERS system.
jimscreechy (@)
21st December 2010, 10:01
Hmm the weight thing is a bit tricky. The weigth has been upped from 620 to 640 (I assume this is for all cars irrespective of wether you carry KERS or not) but I haven’t managed to find out if the weight at the end of the race has also been increased accordingly (which I expect it has). This makes a big difference to the argument in favour of carrying KERS. Quite simply, if the weight at the end of the race has also increased by 20kg (essentially meaning that even if you don’t have KERS you still need to carry the extra 20kg of ballast) then you are at a serious disadvantage if you don’t carry KERS as you are effectively carrying an extra 20kg with no power gain or fuel saving advantage.
Having said that, KERS is not cheap. I remember 2009, some of the reported R&D and production costs of KERs for the larger teams ran up to £50 million dollars. That is a serious amount of money to spend. Even with it being far more developed after a year of implementation in 2009 the overall cost will be fairly extensive. I can’t imagine the smaller teams having even 5 million to spend on implementing this system, even if they buy it from an established manufacturer like Renault, Mclaren, Ferrari, or williams, let alone developing one of their own. This does not bode well for the likes of Virgin, Espania (if they even make it to the grid) or anyone else who can’t mortgage their house/houses for the love of the team.
Feynman
21st December 2010, 12:09
Yes, 640 is the weight of all KERS.
The point of not having KERS, meant you could put the weight where you needed for best balance and performance. You can’t do that next year, the front and rear of all the cars need to weigh the same, KERS or not. The non-KERS teams will end up putting something the same weight as a KERS unit, in roughly the same place, but made out of a block of lead.
The development costs were huge, but they have been developed, you’d have like to imagined there being some way the smaller teams could have got components at cost … but even this was perhaps even too rich for them.
The irony of course, that while we have teams stuck outside looking in at mandated but eye-wateringly expensive battery packs, F-Duct technology costs less than a hundred bucks in parts … so that’s the one we ban, and get confused why the small teams fold.
DeadManWoking
21st December 2010, 12:23
The weight of the car plus driver must be at least 640kg from the start of scrutineering until after the race.
2011 F1 Technical Regulations
Daniel
21st December 2010, 21:37
Can’t help but notice the regulation says “his” driving apparel. Ironic, when talking about weight because female drivers tend to weigh less, and have a slight edge in that regard when weight is critical.
smifaye (@)
21st December 2010, 9:54
I agree with BasCB, nothing is ever guaranteed, just because the regulations try to make KERS more of a benefit, doesn’t neccesarily mean it is going to.
Lets wait and see, I’m just saying it might not be the end of the world.
Todfod
21st December 2010, 13:50
In 2009, KERS wasn’t as much of an advantage as people thought it would be. The 2 fastest cars on the grid didn’t need KERS in 2009. And given the priorities of HRT and Virgin, it makes more sense to have a car designed with a big enough fuel tank, and to achieve a lap time better than that of a GP2 car. Those 2 are going to battling amongst themselves a few laps down anyways.. so why bother with KERS?
LewisC
21st December 2010, 8:54
It seems crazy for them not to have the KERS if it’s available, but as I understand it, in 2011 the KERS system will be the same as in 2009 – 81bhp for 6.7 seconds. And half the field didn’t race with it in 2009, because it affected the weight distribution and drivability of the cars.
BasCB
21st December 2010, 9:27
Exactly. I am not sure even STR and Sauber will use the Ferrari KERS from the start of the year. Red Bull was also late to confirm wanting to use it for next year, so the advantage probably is not enormous.
DeadManWoking
21st December 2010, 12:39
But for 2011 only the weight distribution is mandated (see above ^) to minimize the disadvantages of using KERS.
dyslexicbunny
21st December 2010, 15:36
I think other people have mentioned some of it but I honestly think they have other priorities. These are brand new teams and they are still figuring it out. Why fly down a rabbit hole when you have so many other things to work on?
And add the budget concerns they might be facing…
Stephen Jones (@aus_steve)
21st December 2010, 9:00
at least this should give the front running teams a way to check the performance lost due to weight..
if the virgin or hrt are way closer to the midfield at a track it may mean that the KERS would be slowing the front runners down.. But at the same time it would be hard to change the systems on the car with such late notice, plus the new overnight mechanics ban.
still interesting though
henry
22nd December 2010, 22:32
the weight mandated is the same for both kers cars and non kers cars, so there is no weight saving from not running it. however there is a gain in the distribution of the weight, but in 2011 eve that is minimal since the ratio of front wheel and back wheel has been mandated.
Mike
21st December 2010, 9:19
A few have commented that not to KERS is bonkers.
But I think it shows the reality of the task for these teams to join the midfield. They don’t have the experience or the capacity to put resources into these sorts of things, and more can be gained in other areas.
The long and short of it is, Formula one isn’t set up to be new team friendly, The only people who could come in from scratch and succeed are groups like Toyota, Honda or Volkswagon. And even they would just buy out an existing team rather than star anew.
The three new teams will be at the back next year, and most probably in 2012 as well, Then in 2013, they won’t be able to cope with the new engine changes like older, wealthier teams will, so anything more than the back of the grid anywhere in the next 5 years would be a truly incredible feat.
Mike
21st December 2010, 9:21
I might add, that I doubt KERS will be a success this time around. It’s a great idea, but the lower half of the field run on budgets so tight, there isn’t anything left to put into expensive KERS development.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
21st December 2010, 9:22
I also think you’ve got to bear in mind the added potential for unreliability and that these teams had two of the least reliable cars this year:
2010 in stats part three: car performance
BasCB
21st December 2010, 9:29
I agree that this will be a big factor for Wirth, as Virgin arguably lost out due to unreliability.
As for HRT, they will be glad to get the engine and Williams backend into some kind of car package, no time left KERS.
Stephen Jones (@aus_steve)
21st December 2010, 9:44
yeah, its just another thing that can go wrong
GeeMac (@geemac)
21st December 2010, 9:20
I’m starting to wonder if HRT are planning on using a car next year. Maybe they’ll just bolt the Cosworth engine and Willaims rear end to a shopping trolley and hope for the best.
I’m probably the number 1 advocate of small independent teams having a right to be on the grid, but at the moment HRT are looking more like Andrea Moda than Minardi…
BasCB
21st December 2010, 9:30
Just cut off the back end of this years Dallarra, put in the Williams back end, bolt a diffusor on and put some effort in the rear wing and they might show up at one of the pre season tests ;-)
GeeMac (@geemac)
21st December 2010, 11:40
Agreed, but where are they going to find the money to do all of that. Sakon’s pockets were only deep enough to get the team to the races this year, they still had no cash to develop the car.
sw6569 (@sw6569)
21st December 2010, 9:53
I also reckon that HRT won’t be on the grid next year. This is just another nail to their half buried coffin.
Their only option now is to remodel the existing car, once again be backmarkers and quite frankly, whats the point!? The Minardi’s were at least occasionally fast enough to score points…
wasiF1
21st December 2010, 9:45
Will we see Williams running their Mechanical KERS?
sw6569 (@sw6569)
21st December 2010, 9:49
No this has been confirmed somewhere else as i asked the same thing on the forums :)
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
21st December 2010, 9:50
No they’ve said they’re using a battery unit. With the fuel tanks taking up more space now (since the refuelling ban) a battery unit is preferable because it’s easier to position the batteries to optimise weight distribution.
Still, I wonder if that might change in 2013 when the cars will presumably have one-third less fuel to carry?
sw6569 (@sw6569)
21st December 2010, 9:52
Well Keith…that also depends if Porsche and Williams tie up with the new engine regs…!
BasCB
21st December 2010, 9:59
I bet Williams would love to do that, it would be great to have the Porsche name back in F1, even if it were only with a rebranded Cosworth engine and Williams hydro providing the drive train.
wasiF1
21st December 2010, 16:53
It is possible to have the KERS in the front of the car I know it is venerable to crash?
sw6569 (@sw6569)
21st December 2010, 9:50
Does anyone else think that teams not running KERS once again makes the introduction of such a device fairly pointless? (Incidentally, I was sure that I read that it was mandatory this year – anyone know why I thought that?)
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
21st December 2010, 9:52
There was talk of it being mandatory (much as there was talk of everyone using the same system) but it wasn’t written into the rules.
BasCB
21st December 2010, 9:58
Why make it mandatory?
Power steering, carbon brake disks and seamless gear shift are used by all teams, but non of them are mandatory. The adjustable front wing was not even used by some of the teams this year and i think Lotus and STR only introduced them during the season this year.
It is in their best interests to use it, but if they cant for budget reasons, or won’t for reliability worries, balancing troubles or just because they think they can be faster without it, thats their choice.
Our Nige
21st December 2010, 9:58
Virgin are not going to use it because it will cost too much (fair enough) and HRT are not going to use it as they will not be there for the whole year, either selling the team before the start or turning up at the first race with last years car, being rubbish and then folding a few races in, unable to pay for engines etc.. We have seen it all before……
snowman
21st December 2010, 10:39
Sooner get rid of these new teams the better. Whats the point of having them there if they can’t afford it. Were way behind everyone this year and now they are going to be even more handicapped next year without KERS. Should race in GP2 or trolleys or whatever else is more suited to their budget. Formula 1 is the pinnacle of motor sport and yet we have teams that cant afford drivers and now even to build the right spec car.
GeeMac (@geemac)
21st December 2010, 11:43
Your real name is Luca di Montezemelo I presume. ;)
sam crawford
21st December 2010, 12:11
I doubt it is as I have the same views, I’d rather only have 20 cars on the grid if it meant they all had the funds to develop their cars to be competitive. Imagine if the Premier League expanded to 24, and instead of 4 extra teams from the Championship joining, they made 4 completely new teams from scratch, with no fanbase, no players, no stadium and told them to get on with it? The sooner these teams catch up the better, but if they don’t catch up, I’d rather they walked by the end of this season.
Daniel
21st December 2010, 21:42
You were never a Minardi fan then I take it?
Fixy (@)
21st December 2010, 15:46
If they’re up for the challenge, right.
If they can’t be involved other than in blue flags, better keep out without losing their face.
Rocky
21st December 2010, 12:14
One of the big benefits of Kers will be passing the new teams must figure well we don’t need that. Why spend the money.
Hamish
21st December 2010, 12:40
I think KERS is the last of HRTs concerns. That implies they have a car to put it in.
Jack Brockley
21st December 2010, 14:10
As Martin Brundle would say, they’ll be sitting ducks on the straights. Not that anyone will be behind them for position.
Our Nige
21st December 2010, 14:34
i dont mind new teams – it all boils down to F1 being too expensive to compete in – HRT, Virgin and USGP (remember them?!) all signed up for the £40 million F1 – not what we have now!! Why should F1 not have new teams? All the teams on the grid now were all new teams at one point – if a few of them fall away then so what, it has happened throughout history of f1. F1 has its head up its own bum so much now – its just another racing series…….
Daniel
21st December 2010, 21:45
Personally I’d prefer it if anyone could enter any race so long as they met the rules, and we had pre-qualifying to weed out the slowest of them. Having only 13 slots available, and then having the FIA decide not to even fill all of them when there are candidates is not what competition should be about.
Someone mentioned the Premier League above, any new team can make it there, they just have to work through the lower divisions. Not so in F1.
Bernard
21st December 2010, 17:38
The new teams have their heads screwed on, get the car competitive before worrying about KERS.
When you need to find a couple of SECONDS it’s ludicrous spending valuable time and money in search of a couple of TENTHS.
Daniel
21st December 2010, 21:46
Seconds are made up of tenths.
Bernard (@bernard)
22nd December 2010, 19:39
Yes and when you have several dozen of them to find, KERS is not a good use of a your resources.
Ben
22nd December 2010, 0:52
I met the guy who invented kers a couple of weeks ago. His name was Wayne, Wayne Ker.
I’ll be here all week folks, try the veal!