2006: Coulthard at the Nurburgring

David Coulthard keeps Red Bull deal

F1 Fanatic round-up

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David Coulthard will keep his ??4million Red Bull deal despite his new role as BBC pundit.


Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

BBC let F1 commentator David Coulthard keep his ??4m Red Bull deal (Daily Record)

??Racing legend David Coulthard has been allowed to keep a lucrative contract with Formula 1 team Red Bull – despite starting a new job as a BBC pundit.??

F1 organizer Chung to sue over his dismissal (The Korea Herald)

??The chief organizer of Korean F1 Grand Prix is planning to sue over his dismissal, a source close to him said Sunday. Chung Young-cho, the head of the Korea Auto Valley Operation, the operating body of F1 Korean Grand Prix, was dismissed from his post following a board meeting on Friday.??

Hill climber: third generation on starting line (The Sydney Morning Herald)

??British racing car driver Josh Hill is used to the weight of expectation. As the son of 1996 formula one world champion Damon Hill and the grandson of motor racing great Graham Hill, the 20-year-old is carrying on a rich family tradition.??

Female kart racer receives joint award (FIA)

??Female Kart Racer Receives Joint CIK-FIA Women & Motor Sport Commission Award Beitske Visser, from the Netherlands, has been honoured at the CIK-FIA Awards Ceremony in Paris last night. The 16 year old female kart racer was deemed by the members of the Women & Motor Sport Commission to be the most deserving recipient of this new award, and was presented with her trophy by Commission President Mich??le Mouton for her achievements in the 2010 CIK-FIA Karting Championships.??

Why adjustable wings needn?t affect gear ratios (Steve Hopkinson’s Formula 1 Blog)

??It?s a frequent sight in modern Formula 1 ?ǣ a driver gets close enough to the car infront to slipstream him down the straight, but just before he?s built enough speed to pass, he hears the all-too-familiar sound of a V8 engine bouncing off its rev limiter at 18,000rpm.??

Symonds keen to do more in F1 (Autosport)

??Pat Symonds says he is keen to get more involved in Formula 1 in the future, after admitting that he still has huge passion for the sport.??

Ferrari Drivers Concerned Cars Too Complicated (Speed)

??Ferrari drivers Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa are worried they’ll have too many buttons to press on their steering wheels following the latest Formula One rule changes.??

Jenson Button competes in a duathlon (Jenson Button via Twitter)

??Very windy but fun Duathlon here on Guernsey this morning. Came home fifth after a very tough bike. Guernsey has some good athletes!??

S??bastien Buemi in training (@Sebastien_buemi via Twitter)

??Back on the track for an intensive session of training: http://yfrog.com/h3badrj??

Follow F1 news as it breaks using the F1 Fanatic live Twitter app.

Comment of the day

The Lewis Hamilton vs Jenson Button debate has spawned some great comments. JCF1 has one theory:

128 people missed the Hamilton option by 5 pixels.

From the forum

Preliminary results are in for the first round of the Official Junior F1 Fanatic PS3 World Championship. Congratulations to lamo2741 who crossed the line first for Williams, 5.4 seconds ahead of second place ed24f1. Join the post-race discussion on the Forum.

Happy birthday!

Four F1 Fanatics are celebrating today ?ǣ a big happy birthday to Gerdoner, Ads21, gabal and Bev!

On this day in F1

On this day in 2001, Eddie Irvine crashed the only Jaguar R2 while testing at Valencia.

The crash occurred during Irvine?s maiden run in the new car for the 2001 season. The track was damp and he crashed into a tyre wall, significantly damaging the front end of the car. The sole R2 was sent back to Milton Keynes to be repaired.

Image ?? Red Bull/Getty images

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  • 88 comments on “David Coulthard keeps Red Bull deal”

    1. I want to live in 20001 as well!! :) xx

    2. Bad… he should have to give that up surely.

      He’s bad enough for plugging in his pundit role, never mind that he now has 10x as much coverage.

    3. Okay, I’ve been waiting all day for you to post the round-up, because I’m floored by Pat Symonds’ continued participation in…well, anything related to motorsports, frankly, and I’m hoping people with more insight than I have will comment on that story. How does he have a column in F1 Racing magazine? How was he invited to speak at Autosport International this past weekend? Are so many people willing to simply overlook what he did? I’m not talking about anything related to any ruling by the FIA; I’m talking about people involved in racing associating with him and, you know, paying him (presumably) to appear at events like the one this past weekend.

      1. His sentence was overturned – or at least downgraded – by the French courts when they reversed Briatore’s life ban. It’s also fairly obvious that the entire incident in Singapore was Briatore’s idea, even if Symonds was the one who pitched it to Piquet.

        1. Michael Griffin
          17th January 2011, 8:39

          Doesn’t matter if it was largely or entirely Briatore’s idea, Symonds went along with it and therefore should be shunned by the motorsport world, not having a column in F1Racing and appearing on stage in front of fans, ie. people who were at risk thanks to Briatore, Symonds and Piquet.

          It’s disgusting really.

          1. I was more disgusted by the fact that Briatore was welcomed back into the paddock seemingly with open arms at some races last year. So Symonds wrote an article and got paid by a magazine – the supposedly shocked and appalled FIA, race organisers and personnel didn’t have a problem chumming up with Fabio again!



            Then again, Fabio does have a nice yacht and some attractive young female friends – must be easier to forgive and forget…

          2. Symonds only crime is that he got caught. I’m not justifying it but since big money came into F1 this kind of fixing has been going on for years. Remember the ‘Ferrari electronics zapped by raygun’ ferrago?

        2. Symonds says Piquet was the one who pitched it to him in order to keep his contract.

        3. Frankly, I don’t care if my mom pitched them the idea. The people who willingly participated should be punished, and so far the only one who truly has been is Piquet, Jr. — and him only because he has become a pariah in the F1 community. In my opinion, they all ought to be. At the very least.

          1. I second the motion!

          2. I tend to agree, but Teflonso, who directly benefitted wasn’t punished at all – The strategy they gave him ONLY made any sense whatever if You hoped for a safety car period very fast after his far too early pitstop. A driver with that kind of experience would know that – Alonso would have protested against that strategy, unless he knew why. No doubt in my mind that he knew exactly what was going to happen. And he still counts the race as one of his victories – Lots of driver talent, No Integrity whatsoever…
            And if Teflonso could go totally unpunished, then I don’t see how You can argue to keep the others out for good. Piquet Jr didn’t have a realistic future in F1 even if he had refused to do it.

            1. are you really that simple?

              i know some of you know nothing about F1 strategy but ill explain again…

              short early stop is the norm when u are a fast car at the back of grid on street circuit. it gets u into clearer air. and once u have stopped u will more fuel than the others infront of u, they will pit once u catch them and u will then have clean air again to do your 2nd stop to get out ahead of them. risky but much better than just sitting there overtaking no one pitting the same time as them and still being behind them. like massa did this year at same track.

              michael did it at monaco with good effect in 06. lewis tried it in 09. webber and rubens even did it the same day!

              alonso had nothing to gain out of it. risk all that for one win i dont think so. so dont be so thick. flav was desperate to keep renault in f1 and needed a win, neslon needed a contract. Alonso was on a path to ferrari.

              u work it out. tho im sure u cant. but at least have a try.

              would alonso risk it for a title, probably. but so would michael or the rest of them. but for one not needed win, not a chance.

        4. So if someone paid me or told me to go murder another person, that person wouldnt be guilty of an offence, no?

      2. I was always a huge fan of Symonds, was always a joy to hear him talk about F1. And I’m also not naive about a lot of the shenanigans that really goes on behind the scenes in F1. But the stunt was too far over the line for such an apparently rapid rehabilition into civil F1 society.

        I’m not even sure how much contrition he has actually shown yet, if any. Most appearances have been done under a “topic not for discussion” basis. If he came clean on exactly what transpired, who did what and why, then that would be only the first step to getting back on track.

        Clearly the notion and motivation for a match-fix originated with Briatore, but there is no way that guy was anywhere near smart enough to figure out a plan like this for himself. (This is the guy, after all, that thought trails of sparks made the cars go faster).
        Symonds wasn’t a patsy, or a hapless observer; he had to design and engineer the whole scheme, he’s as complicit as Briatore and Piquet.
        Involved way-up to his hips, just for the sake of common decency, more than a year should pass before he starts sniffing around F1 teams or touting for consultancy gigs, making a total mockery of the punishment.

        The magazines will always do anything to shift units … if he didn’t give good copy, or wasn’t an old mate, they’d have nothing to do with him, and right now be laying it on thick and heavy with the faux tabloid moralizing.
        But he writes and talks well, so they’ll act just as hypocritically as you would expect them to, and give him a job, and listen to his war-stories over expenses pub lunches.

        1. But one line in the linked article is one I agree with fully:

          There is absolutely no point in having beautiful engineering that you don’t tell anybody about, and the people don’t understand, so I am trying to broaden that horizon a little bit.

          To me it’s a shame more isn’t showcased about the technology of the cars for at the races or after the season or whatever.

        2. His statement back when the original punishments were handed down does show some contrition. However:

          In a single action I have destroyed the high reputation I have built up during a 33-year career in motor sport. On that night in Singapore last year I made a mistake the consequences of which I could never have imagined at the time.

          Should we interpret that as meaning, “I’ve been working in F1 a long time, and I never would have imagined that outright race fixing could actually ruin someone’s reputation!”

          As it turned out, I suppose it actually didn’t.

    4. Why not just let the drivers use the adjustable rear wing anywhere on the track?

      1. Because the aim was to help promote passing opportunities.

        1. I’m talking about there being a designated spot for using it.

          1. so you want more designated spots?

            happy birthday Gerdoner, Ads21, gabal and Bev!

            1. There being none. Just let a driver use it once he’s a second within another driver. It’s not like all F1 circuits have just one straight.

          2. I misunderstood sorry, Thought you were upset about the “being close to another car” thing…

            So Now I strongly agree.

    5. Martin brundle has joined the twitter scene. He is @MBrundleF1

      1. maybe you need to contact F1Fanatic directly to get this one added :-)

    6. I don’t really understand why the Korean go organiser was sacked. Okay the track could have been finished slightly earlier and less muddy but most things that went wrong were out of his control. There must have been others that were responsible for some of the problems

      1. I suppose it is to do with power struggles just as much as the shabby construction scedule that ended up giving them a great scare of not making it in time.

        1. I think it has more to do with the actual event than the late construction schedule. From many reports there were people that had paid for tickets online that weren’t able to get in, there were insufficient restroom facilities for the numbers of people, there wasn’t enough food for sale, the transportation to and from the circuit was insufficient and not set up in an organized fashion, making it difficult for people to find the proper bus to get them back to where they were going… The track was the one part of the event that they actually took the care to make workable for the race.

          I expect this year’s race will go much more smoothly.

    7. As I put on my blog, I still think the gear ratios will cause a problem.

      But afaik they can use the wing wherever they want on a qualifying lap? (If somebody could clarify this for me?)

      If that is the case then they may run a longer ratio to get a better grid slot at the cost of lower straight line speed in the race, although it is generewally slower when they’re on full fuel in a race anyway so it may balance out using a longer ratio.

      1. You are right – you can use whenever you want in qualifying, therefore, your setup will be to maximize grid position so you’ll account for having the wing deployed anyway!

      2. The regulations state that the adjustable bodywork can be “activated” at any time prior to the start of the race.

        I’m assuming that means during practice and qualifying.

      3. What do you think of the argument, that the FIA might let them use the ARW not on the longest straight but on a second straight used in the posted article?

        1. Do you think it might work? and 2. can we thrust the FIA to be as sensible?

        1. I think it has to be used on the longest straight to give it more chance to work.

    8. The longer this goes on the less comfortable I am with DC’s consultant position with Red Bull. The team’s had altogether too much of the limelight in the BBC, and no matter how well “managed” it is, it simply casts a shadow over DC’s input – that can’t be avoided. He could be the most neutral, reliable, honest commentator in the world, but every time he has to provide an opinion, there is a reflexive assumption that an agenda is there to be pushed. His position allows him to put an unchallenged Red Bull-friendly perspective on any situation that might crop up, which can be achieved by being carefully neutral, not by blatant arm waving and shouting. That’s because the BBC won’t allow themselves to be seen “exploiting” their inside access to get at RB sensitive information if a scandal blows up, while at the same time they can’t avoid calling on him to discuss something. When Red Bull spent all year trashing their suppliers, and Renault, he stood by passively and either parroted the company line, or made some suitably vague theories about what might be going on – when we knew that he knew exactly what was going on. The BBC should have been pressuring him on camera for information, the same as they were on other occassions when cornering harried team personnel. But DC is neither one thing nor the other. Until that’s sorted out we’ll have to assume his loyalties are at best split.

      That’s not a good thing for him or the BBC’s coverage.

      For the avoidance of any doubt, I voted for Crofty, Ant and Brundle in the box this year. :)

      1. I think the gist of it is that Coulthard has been released from his position with Red Bull, but he’s entitled to keep his payment from them.

        1. Agreed, this just looks like a transparent cover for previously agreed severance. Call it a golden handshake if you will, at best DC may do some meet and greet at Red Bull functions but that will probably be all!!

      2. I agree. It was pretty annoying to see DC talk Red Bull PR lines when commenting.

        I certainly hope he cuts out that, otherwise it will be a tedious commenting.

        That agreement should be made public and should be terminated, if DC shows to be good and stays as a permanent fixture.
        Possibly they did not want him to cut the ties with Red Bull, as he might be dropped if he does not impress next to Brundle.

    9. Button came 5th. Sounds about right.;)

      1. Yes, I heard that the brakes on the bike kept locking up :P

        1. Button was last seen weaving down the country lanes of Guernsey as he couldn’t get any heat in to the tyres on his bike.

          1. Witness’s told of how Button suddenly complained about “lack of grip, lack of grip”

            1. And also heard muttering to himself “there must be something wrong with the bike – it was undriveable”.

            2. these comments are actually hilarious

            3. I heard that some German rider crashed into him!

    10. Will be interesting in the Red Bull accounts to see whether Coulthards fees comes under consultancy fees or marketing.

    11. £4 million a year… that is quite simply grotesque. What exactly could his job entail to earn him that much money??

      Then again, I’ve always got the impression the Daily Record is a bit of a rag, and reading the story there doesn’t seem to be any evidence to back up that figure. So hopefully he is getting paid substantially less than that. I’d hate to think when I buy Red Bull that 0.1% of my money is funding DC’s ‘consultancy’

      1. You can save that money by not buying Red Bull ;)

      2. The Daily Ranger is a rag. I wouldn’t wipe my backside with it.

      3. How about drinking Monster instead?

    12. at a point on the circuit designated by the FIA.

      What? … … … … no? just no alright, This is stupid. I truly hope it’s just an idiot writing the article because if this is true….. Urk….

      1. It’s true. Charlie Whiting will pick one section of each circuit on which the wing can be used ahead of the race. It’s not really that big of a deal, because there’s only one place on most circuits where it could be used. For instance, the back straight at Shanghai, or the main straight in Barcelona. Occasionally, there will be circuits where there is more than one place where it could reasonably be used – like Silverstone and Abu Dhabi – but the rear wing works the same way as the F-duct, which makes it completely useless through the corners.

        And by limiting its usage to one point on the circuit, the FIA address the (totally misplaced) fears that the rear wing will simply make overtaking too easy. Drivers have to get within a second of the car in front and stay within a second befoe they can use it.

        1. The problem is that then the drivers will never try any overtakes other than the preset one!

          1. Localised overtaking

          2. The problem is that then the drivers will never try any overtakes other than the preset one!

            They’re already forced to on a lot of the current circuits, because there’s only really one place they can get by under their own power. Like Catalunya – the only real overtaking opportunity is at the end of the main striaght. You can get by another car elsewhere on the circuit, but you need either a) a significantly faster car, or b) for the other guy to make a mistake.

            In the case of Silverstone, where there are two potential overtaking points – at the end of the Hangar and the new Wellington straights – the solution is simple: keep having a run at the guy in front down the end of the Hangar straight (which I’ve heard will be the designated rear wing zone). Once the other guy starts getting used to your moves and thinking he can predict them, use KERS to get by at the Wellington straight. It’s a tactic that’s used a lot in touring cars, particularly in Australia: train the guy in front to think you’ll do something, and then jsut as he gets settled, take a run at him when he least expects it. Hell, you could see Jenson Button doing it to Michael Schumacher in Barcelona last year. It didn’t work, because Schumacher caught onto Button tactics early on (he is, after all, the hardest driver to pass), but the theory was sound.

            1. Yes, I agree – and I think in that way it again comes down to being a better racer to be able to overtake: you have to catch the guy you are overtaking off guard, ideally by forcing him into such a position. Some will be better at this than others, as it should be.

            2. That sounds pretty logical, and it makes sense. We have seen some of the great drivers do things like that before (giving it a try on the left side for 3-4 times then suddely pass on the right one corner before that point). I hope this works.

            3. Its a nice theory, but if they’re only allowed to use the pass assist in one place, will drivers really not expect an attempt there?

        2. I wonder if some teams may opt to not even bother with a rear wing device. Given the very specific parameters of its use, it may be more cost effective to simply skip it.

          1. They can’t skip it the way they can KERS. The adjustable rear wing is mandatory.

            Honestly, I think some people are blowing it way out of proportion. 90% of the posts I’ve read about it have been fundamentally wrong as people have either a) misunderstood what they were reading, or b) assumed it will be bad and twisted the article to fit that assumption.

            1. FIA Technical Regs 2011:

              3.18.1 The incidence of the rearmost and uppermost closed section described in Article 3.10.2 may be varied
              whilst the car is in motion provided …


              may, really is not compulsory.

              90% of the posts you read are fundamentally wrong you say?

          2. It’s not mandatory, but I think everyone will want to have one, especially the teams who will not get KERS this season.

            Only HRT might fail to get the thing finished before the first race, although some teams might struggle to get it work properly during the first few races, as they can hardly test with the full thing including the time switch.

            1. Last year the HRT cars had such low downforce they practically had the advantage of an ARW on the straights (hence them often featuring pretty high in the speed trap rankings), although unfortunately for the drivers they had to deal with this round corners too!

    13. So what will David do actually? Comment more about the Red Bull team & drivers during commentary.

      HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO Gerdoner, Ads21, gabal and Bev.

      1. I was worried about that myself, then I realised thats not the half of it… what if DC is so busy that we only get Jake Humphrey’s and Eddie Jordan in the run up to the race?

        How will the BBC get Jordan to be quiet now?

        1. The camera could just pan up to Jake’s eye-level and EJ’s mic could be cut and you wouldn’t know he was there…

      2. Happy birthday to all of you from me as well!

        1. From me as well!

    14. Buemi, officially new ‘eyebrows man’ in place of Alonso now, they are ridiculous!

      And speaking of the Toro Rosso drivers, I feel that each team has an identity, here it is below:

      Ferrari: Old man of the family, think they should be head of the household but are losing power
      McLaren: Mother hen, loved by most, always trying to get one over they’re husband Ferrari
      Mercedes: The Brother in law, tried to build upon his name’s reputation but failed big time, got grandad involved and is now trying to impress again.
      Red Bull: The flash son with bundles of money, trying to take over from the head of the fsmily, but ends up mucking things up far too often.
      Renault: The Russian cousin, dresses in odd clothes claiming to be of another family, fighting their way back into the family after a huge controversy nearly banished them
      Williams: The toothless uncle of the family, was once a powerhouse but now relies heavily on state money to keep going, drastically needs some surgery to freshen things up a bit.
      Force India: The quiet daughter, crisp and formal in everything it does, slowly building up a good reputation for herself, seems to love Belgium
      Toro the flash son’s twin, looks very similar, but underneath lies the heart of a minnow, little money or resources, heavily dependant on more powerful twin
      Sauber The consistent one in the family, never makes too much fuss, just gets the job done and makes a small contribution to the family, always in danger of falling out of favour though
      Virgin: The hippy aunt, never does things the normal way, insists on being fun and telling everyone that you dont need success to be happy, but secretly has a grudge with her half brother
      Lotus The malaysian addition to the family, half brother of Virgin, seems to be popular in the family but underneath the gloss is an evil corporate heart
      HRT Banished from the family as they couldnt pay the bills, hoping the government will help them out, claim to have lots of money and friends but it’s all lies

      1. HRT – the shunned, locked up benefit cheat. Never mentioned, photos removed from the family album.

    15. Michael Griffin
      17th January 2011, 8:32

      I think Martin Brundle is awesome and will be great in his role as lead commentator, but having a Red Bull employee alongside will keep me with 5Live.

    16. I’m not sure what’s more contentious: David Coulthard keeping a lucrative contract that casts serious doubts over his objectivity as F1’s newest most important commentator, or The Daily Record’s description of him as a ‘racing legend’?

      1. Yep, my money is on the legend DC to win Kieth’s champion of champions. If only Senna and Scumhi were half as good as the square chinned one…. just think what they could have achieved.

    17. During 2010, Beitske contested the CIK-FIA European KZ2 Championship and became the first female driver to ever win a European Championship round in a gearbox class when she beat 52 other racers to win Race 1 at the second round of the series in Varennes, France.

      What? I mean, as a Dutchman I’m quite happy for Beitske to be given that accolade, but surely Mouton herself beat her by almost 30 years? Unless someone is going to come in here and tell me her rally car didn’t have gears, I’m misunderstanding the “gearbox class” qualifier, or they are talking very specifically about European championship as opposed to world championship.

      1. I think thet are probably talking about only Karts as opposed to All racing. An it’ll count as news when she wins an award open to ALL.

    18. “Racing legend”?


    19. Re: Ral
      I read the ‘gearboxclass’ as ‘karts-with-gears’ and in that, she probably is the first woman. Being dutch myself as well, I checked her website and I hope she will make her dream of driving F1 someday come true. She doesn’t have the swimsuit looks of a Danika, but she looks nice, not a beauty, but nice as in friendly.

      For Nick Snyders or Max Verstappen we have to wait too long. Maybe Guido van der Garde will stun us and win Gp2… Entering F1 next year, hopefully not by the backmarkers of the field

      1. Does she have say 8 million just sitting around cos i think that will prob get her a seat in F1 regardless of the talent she obviously has.

      2. Why in the world would you go out of your way to state your opinion that Beitske Visser is no beauty, does not have the swimsuit looks of a Danica? You are speaking about a teenager, not yet 16. Why not assess her on her driving ability rather than appearance?

      3. Just as well Kubica didn’t need to pass your ‘attractiveness’ test to get a chance. Although I hear he does have some nice bikinis…

    20. Nice link to Hopkinsons blog, Keith; you really are on top of it and providing info beyond ‘newsnow’!

      I am looking forward to the new rules and hope for different tacktics from different teams. Some might be compromising overtaking for pole position (reading along Vettel?) while others take the opposite approach (Hamilton?).

      I expect overtaking to maybe increase a little bit and also that it won’t be limited to one spot on the circuits, if there’s currently also more then one spot.

    21. While it would be better if Coulthard was neutral, he has been a consultant to Red Bull for the past two years while working as a pundit for the BBC so I don’t see why it is that much different now he is a commentator, although it is a more high profile position, or do the politicians quoted in the article make public their concerns two years ago also.

      If the figure of £4m a year is genuine then I am surprised, as that would mean he is still one of the best paid people n F1.

      1. I was actually shocked at how relatively reasonable most of the commenting politicians were about transparency being important, rather than being rabidly fighting for Coulthard to lose the big money deal :)

    22. I really dont see the big deal with DC and RedBull. Ive not noticed him say anything that has spoiled my enjoyment of the coverage. In fact he was very good at reporting on RedBull going ons.

      This is rubbish from that same article
      “breached the Beeb’s charter – which demands impartiality from all journalists, sports pundits and commentators.”

      They haven’t watched Les Ferdinand constantly use ‘we’ when talking about spurs, Lee Dixon, Martin Keown Arsenal bias and Ian Wright was the worst. I dont really care though, I think it adds some good banter.

    23. I’m reading on various sites that Bahar thinks the Lotus naming row will end up being settled out of court…reading between the lines I don’t think he wants it to get to court because he knows Fernandes has a good chance of winning.

      I predict an out of court settlement somewhere during the season where Group Lotus pay Team Lotus to change their name after the 2011 season.

    24. Thx for the birthday wishes :)

    25. Is nothing important happening in Scotland or something? BIG CHINNED MAN KEEPS SUGAR-WATER DEAL deserves all that commentary?

      I want to know why a man worth upwards of 40 million quid (or was it 400? I know I was surprised) who owns a hotel in Monaco and has a job that allows him to continue being at the centre of F1 indefinitely needs either the money or the workload. Strongly suspect a certain Austrian will be gaining Monagasque citizenship soon…

    26. As long as Coulthard is indifferent then I don’t see a problem. At some point he is of course going to say how brilliant RBR are…they are current Driver and Constructor Champions!

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