These two British champions may have raced decades apart but there are some interesting similarities between them.
Both clinched champions with technical superior cars – Clark using the Lotus 25 to dominate the 1963 championship and the 33 to claim the 1965 crown. Likewise Mansell wielded the Williams FW14B to devastating effect in 1992.
And it’s possible to argue that car problems were a significant reason why both drivers they didn’t win more races and championships.
For several years mechanical failures were the only thing that kept Clark off the podium. A critical tyre failure cost Mansell the 1986 crown and more bad luck followed on several occasions in 1987.
So how are we to separate these two champions?
Clark lost his life in 1968 at the age of 32. What more could he have achieved had he raced on into his forties, as Mansell did?
It’s down to you to decide which of these drivers should go through to the next round of the Champion of Champions. Vote for which you think was best below and explain who you voted for and why in the comments.
| Jim Clark | Nigel Mansell | |
| Titles | 1963, 1965 | 1992 |
| Second in title year/s | Graham Hill, Graham Hill | Riccardo Patrese |
| Teams | Lotus | Lotus, Williams, Ferrari, McLaren |
| Notable team mates | Trevor Taylor, Mike Spence, Graham Hill | Nelson Piquet, Riccardo Patrese, Alain Prost |
| Starts | 72 | 187 |
| Wins | 25 (34.72%) | 31 (16.58%) |
| Poles | 33 (45.83%) | 32 (17.11%) |
| Modern points per start1 | 11.65 | 8.07 |
| % car failures2 | 29.17 | 32.62 |
| Modern points per finish3 | 16.45 | 11.98 |
| Notes | An oil leak in the final race of 1962 cost him his first title | Runner-up in 1986 and 1987, the latter after back-breaking crash |
| Finished on the podium in every race where his car didn’t break down over the next three seasons | Returned to Williams in 1991, taking title in 1992 | |
| Killed in a Formula Two race during the 1968 season having won the first race of the year | Quit for good after two-race comeback for McLaren in 1995 | |
| Bio | Jim Clark | Nigel Mansell |
1 How many points they scored in their career, adjusted to the 2010 points system, divided by the number of races they started
2 The percentage of races in which they were not classified due to a mechanical failure
3 How many points they scored in their career, adjusted to the 2010 points system, divided by the number of starts in which they did not suffer a race-ending mechanical failure
Round one
Which was the better world champion driver?
- Nigel Mansell (15%)
- Jim Clark (85%)
Total Voters: 604
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Read the F1 Fanatic Champion of Champions introduction for more information and remember to check back tomorrow for the next round.
Have you voted in the previous rounds of Champion of Champions yet? Find them all here:
Champion of Champions
- Ayrton Senna voted Champion of Champions by F1 Fanatic readers
- Champion of Champions in stats
- Champion of Champions Final: Senna vs Schumacher
- Ayrton Senna vs Juan Manuel Fangio
- Michael Schumacher vs Alain Prost
- Ayrton Senna vs Jack Brabham
- Juan Manuel Fangio vs Jackie Stewart
- Alain Prost vs Niki Lauda
- Jim Clark vs Michael Schumacher
- Jack Brabham vs Lewis Hamilton
Images © Ford (Clark), Williams/Sutton (Mansell)
Scalextric (@scalextric)
18th January 2011, 6:33
Jim Clark, how I wished you’d let Graham Hill win one more title. You were the best of an era. I say on to the next round with you. Sorry, Nige.
damonsmedley (@damonsmedley)
18th January 2011, 11:33
Like Senna, this gentleman passed away way too early. We could have been looking at Clark as a 10 time champion, but we’ll never know. But the same can be said of many drivers of that era. What a shame.
By the way, I voted Clark without equivocation. :)
frood19 (@frood19)
18th January 2011, 12:15
ditto. mansell doesn’t stand a chance
Fixy (@)
18th January 2011, 13:41
If the first part is true, then the second is even more amazing.
Pionir
18th January 2011, 18:25
Yes it is, but even more amazing is his points scoring record. Out of his 49 finishes, only 9 were outside the points, which lets not forget, were only awarded down to 6th rather than the current “everyone gets a prize” system.
snowman
18th January 2011, 20:04
Poles 46%, nearly half the races he was in he got pole. Some pretty impressive stats there.
US_Peter (@us_peter)
18th January 2011, 21:06
Poles 46%, nearly half the races he was in he got pole. Some pretty impressive stats there.
Hamish
18th January 2011, 6:37
Whoever gets Clark or Senna is on a justified one way ticket to an absolute hiding.
raymondu999 (@raymondu999)
18th January 2011, 7:26
What if they get each other then? :P
Journeyer (@journeyer)
18th January 2011, 7:29
I’m guessing we’ll end up with Fangio, Schumacher, Senna, and Clark in the semis. It’s anyone’s game from there.
Calum (@calum)
18th January 2011, 7:55
Prost or Stewart have a big say however…
GeeMac (@geemac)
18th January 2011, 9:10
And Niki Lauda….
David B (@david-b)
18th January 2011, 7:58
Agree they are the best.
Sorry for Nigel, but Jim was Jim. An urepeatable talent, a brave driver, an elegant and simple hearted gentleman.
Anyway don’t forget Nigel quality: in my feeling he was the natural descendant of Gilles Villeneuve, and I’m very happy he eventually managed to get a title.
Hamish
18th January 2011, 8:33
Don’t forget Prost. His results over a 10 year period are simply amazing
Burnout (@burnout)
18th January 2011, 8:41
You guys aren’t keeping track of the draws. I’m fairly certain Schumacher runs into Clark in the next round.
Burnout (@burnout)
18th January 2011, 8:48
Also the way I see it, Senna won’t run into Clark unless both make it to the finals.
Journeyer (@journeyer)
18th January 2011, 9:38
It would be better if Keith posted a map of the draw, to be honest! :)
MSC vs Clark in the QFs would be… very interesting.
Macca (@macca)
18th January 2011, 9:54
And don’t forget about Sir Jack
Hamish
18th January 2011, 9:55
Yea agreed. A ladder would be good.
Icthyes (@icthyes)
18th January 2011, 10:43
Made one. Apologies for the quality, it was hand-done on Paint: http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k557/Icthyes/F1FCoC1.png
Based on the votes so far, Round 2 should look like this: http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k557/Icthyes/F1FCoC2.png
Some delicious battles: Prost v Hakkinen and Senna v Hill are my two favourites. I reckon the QFs will be Schumacher v Clark, Prost v Lauda, Fangio v Stewart, Senna v Hamilton. Some VERY interesting ties there!
Burnout (@burnout)
18th January 2011, 10:52
Thanks Icthyes. Somebody else who’s keeping track of the draw.
Somehow I don’t see Hamilton beating Brabham. Senna vs Brabham for the quarterfinals seems more likely to me.
DeadManWoking (@deadmanwoking)
18th January 2011, 12:18
The only real test in Round 2 will be Lauda-Ascari, although I imagine the Hamilton fanboys might give Brabham a run in the last match.
Icthyes (@icthyes)
18th January 2011, 13:11
It’s only really because it’s Brabham (and maybe Raikkonen and Fittipaldi) that I think Hamilton will go through. Of all the triple champions, he seems to get ignored the most, very unfairly as I rate him above Piquet easily. If it was someone like Stewart or Clark, I wouldn’t fancy his chances at all.
DeadManWoking (@deadmanwoking)
18th January 2011, 13:31
Agreed, but it would only be a temporary reprieve. If he wins against Brabham, Hamilton will face Senna in Round 3 and even he would vote for Senna in that matchup. 8)
LuvinF1
18th January 2011, 16:21
You are quite right Burnout. I have laid out the brackets for the competition, and unless Keith changes the draw mid-stream, Round Three will see Michael v Jim. And if I could be so bold Round Three:
3-1 Michael v Jim
3-2 Alain v Niki
3-3 Juan Manuel v Sir Jackie
3-4 Ayrton v “a possible surprise”
No matter how one lays out the brackets, there will always be some vehemently opposed!
matt90 (@matt90)
18th January 2011, 17:00
Interesting, but there shouldn’t actually be a third place play off, as there is every chance the winner beat the second or third best in a much earlier round. Unless every champion was pitted against every other champion, the only definate thing that can taken is who is number one.
Scribe (@scribe)
18th January 2011, 17:16
Yeah, you know the only one I wouldn’t want to call out of the matchups in round 4 is Clark vs Schumacher. Personally I’ll vote Clark because I reckon his era was stronger an his speed on anything with 4 weels but tbf I could easily see schumi picking that one up.
Thing is, I always saw Clark or Fangio challenging Senna, didn’t really see it in Schuey. Prost has very legitimate arguments marking him out easily Senna’s match, particularly the 11 best finishes rule deciding the 1988 title but it’s really quite hard.
Fixy (@)
18th January 2011, 13:43
Maybe not, as pairings are random and it’s not said that the best drivers will be there till the end. Even if Senna and Schumacher were paired now, the result would be the same as if we were in the final, so the Champion of Champions will be the only one to beat everyone else, disregarding the order or ability of the other drivers.
0634 (@)
18th January 2011, 7:00
I’m a big Mansell fan, but Clark is simply better..
Duke (@duke)
18th January 2011, 18:18
Clark for me also.
Odinsthor (@krss77)
18th January 2011, 19:31
In my opinion Senna vs Schumacher is the most sensible final….but act of choosing is not always rational. We’ll see…
Dipak T
18th January 2011, 22:00
Schumacher has the championships, but he is no where near the abosulute blisteing speed of Clark. The only sensible final is Clark vs Senna
David
29th July 2018, 2:35
Schumacher was better than Senna and Ayrton knew it he simply couldn’t keep up with Michael
George (@george)
18th January 2011, 7:02
It’s a pity Mansell has to go out at this stage, he’s one of the most impressive single-time champions (hell he beat a 3 time champ in round 1). He was never the top driver in the sport though, whereas Clark was, so he gets my vote.
Mike
18th January 2011, 19:48
I suspect that reflects more on Piquet’s recent issues regarding his son, and not so much on his driving ability.
But Mansell won fair and square, I won’t deny that.
SVettel
18th January 2011, 7:07
Jim Clark was simply awesome.
Had it not been for his F2 crash at Hockenheim, who knows what he would have achieved?
Journeyer (@journeyer)
18th January 2011, 7:28
He’d have won the 1968 title, but that’s as good as it would get, I reckon. I’m guessing he’d stay on for 1969 (losing out to protege JYS and Tyrrell), before retiring to give way to Jochen for 1970.
Cristian (@cristian)
18th January 2011, 7:37
I don’t get how toy can make those speculations.He was just 32 when he died so it’s a lot easier to think that , in an age when most drivers raced almost until their 40’s, that he would have done several more years.
BasCB (@bascb)
18th January 2011, 8:37
But he might have been killed at another event soon after just as well, so hard to tell.
For me he certainly beats Mansell, I was not even sure Mansell deserved to beat Piquet in that first round.
Kenny (@kenny)
18th January 2011, 9:58
I didn’t realize Mansell won the round. How did that happen? Oh yeah…more people voted for him…LOl.
Kenny (@kenny)
18th January 2011, 9:53
Impossible to say- I think Chapman would have kept him on as long as he wanted to stay. I doubt (but don’t know, obviously) that Rindt would have joined Lotus if Clark was still there. Andretti may have- he got the offer before Rindt did- but he had commitments in USAC. Who knows? But would I have liked to have seen it…
Kenny (@kenny)
18th January 2011, 9:59
“But I would have liked to have seen it…”
Cristian (@cristian)
18th January 2011, 7:38
sorry, i meant how you make those speculations.
kowalsky (@)
18th January 2011, 8:09
i liked mansell a lot. I was in 87 at silverstone and loved it. Eventhough i voted for piquet in the first round. And now he doesn’t stand a chance. Clark is a top five, mansell isn’t.
melkurion (@melkurion)
18th January 2011, 8:31
I love Nigel, and you can’t argue the fact that he was an amazing driver, hell he’s the only single champion to beat a multiple one in the first round.
Having said that, Clark is my choice for the overall win, so can’t vote against him now, he’s simply better then Nigel.
Paolone (@paolone)
18th January 2011, 8:37
Nigel was my hero, I have to vote him!
invoke (@invoke)
18th January 2011, 8:42
So for only 36.11% did Clark not finish first, or retire through mechanical failure. That means if you were racing him in F1 at the time, then if his car did not fail there was almost a 50% chance you would definitely loose!
I wonder what percentage of races he finished on the podium?
Burnout (@burnout)
18th January 2011, 8:45
Considering Moss, Brabham, Graham Hill, Stewart and Hulme were his contemporaries, this match has to go to Clark for achieving what he did against such strong opposition.
David B (@david-b)
18th January 2011, 8:49
Well…Mansell’s were Piquet, Prost, Senna, Lauda, Rosberg. Not bad.
Burnout (@burnout)
18th January 2011, 9:25
Not bad at all, but Mansell didn’t get results anywhere near what Clark got. 115 more race starts but only 6 more wins than Clark.
David B (@david-b)
18th January 2011, 11:11
Agree on that.
Dougie (@f1droid)
18th January 2011, 9:02
I loved Mansell, almost a hero, his F1 career began as I started watching the sport at 9 years old. A more gutsy, determined, driver I’ve yet to see in the sport. Where Senna, Prost etc would guide the car smoothly and with style, Mansell would just grab it by the scruff of the neck and throw it down the road and round the next corner. Always exciting to watch, and why Champ Car suited him so well.
But after all that, it is but his downfall here, as Clark was sublime in the Lotus at a time where death was always waiting just around the corner or over that blind crest. A more natural talent the world has never seen, yet plucked from us in his prime, a legend never to be forgotten.
Oh… and he’s Scottish too :-)
bosyber
18th January 2011, 10:15
I like the way you describe them both. Have only seen the tail end of Mansell really, but I agree with what you describe – largely from the WDC year, the Indy championship, and courtesy of Youtube.
So, Clark it is then.
amt2nd (@amt2nd)
18th January 2011, 12:23
Agree 100% with Dougie.
There has seldom been a more determined driver than Masell. (Was it Frank Williams who said that “If needs be, Nigel will carry the car over the finish line to win”). But that agression broke cars.
Clark could nurse the fragile Lotus around the circuit without. heaven knows how, losing any time. Plus Clarke never whined.
Clark wins.
Dafffid (@dafffid)
18th January 2011, 9:22
Shame, I’d rate Mansell way above some of the round two contenders, but he’s not going to win this one, sorry Nige
Scribe (@scribe)
18th January 2011, 17:19
It’s great to see the affection Mansell’s getting even as everyone votes for Clark.
mattg21 (@mattg21)
18th January 2011, 9:28
The percentage of poles Clark took is outstanding, sorry Nigel.
Schumi vs Senna final would be nice to compare, although it may not happen. It would be great to see a competition tree at the end of this all Keith.
Sasquatsch (@sasquatsch)
18th January 2011, 9:56
Based on stats, Clark was probably one of the best F1 drivers ever, certainly one of the fastest. His percentage of poles and fastest laps are only beaten by Fangio, and his percentage of victories is only beaten by Fangio, Schumacher and Ascari. All these could have been higher if his car didn’t fail as much (a Lotus, about which Graham Hill once said that if he was ever passed by a wheel he knew he was in a Lotus).
Who knows what could have been if he didn’t die in that horrible F2 accident (in a Lotus!)?
So the choice is easy. Jim Clark wins with a wide margin.
Adrian J (@adrian-j)
18th January 2011, 10:38
I voted for Jim Clark simply because he was so successful in so many different categories of motor racing.
Oh and I grew up watching Ford videos that my dad had of the Mk1 Cortina being raced and rallied and a certain My Clark was shown in those to be very good!!
Dipak T
18th January 2011, 11:07
Senna was the closest thing we ever got to Clark. Therefore, Clark easily. Sorry Nige, much as we love you.
Funkyf1 (@funkyf1)
18th January 2011, 11:07
I voted Mansell, because he’s the underdog and I actually got to watch his career, rather than read about it. He impressed me as a driver and as a personality
Craig Woollard (@craig-o)
18th January 2011, 11:10
Clark was simply the best of his time, and one of the best ever. Mansell done well to keep up with Senna, Piquet and Prost, and really deserved more than 1 title, however, the same can be said for Jimmy who deserved far more than 2 titles.
Lee Harrison (@lee-harrison)
18th January 2011, 11:16
Much as I love Nige, gonna have to be Clark for this one. Don’t even know much about him apart from the obvious things, but the stats say it all really. Saying that, I voted Nigel, because someone had to :P
Stuart
18th January 2011, 11:44
Clark.The best driver I have ever seen in 50 years as an FI fan.
BTW I am 65.
Marco
18th January 2011, 12:11
My vote goes for Jim…
Btw. I would like to share with you results of my Formula One analysis… I tried to exclude mechanical retirements benefit, so that the real best driver of the season become a winner at the end, because in early years a lot of luck played a part in overall results… Also all results are counted and I used the same point system 9-6-4-3-2-1 for every season to stay fair to all…
Here are the results of the best driver analysis for each year:
1950 – Fangio
1951 – Ascari
1952 – Ascari
1953 – Ascari
1954 – Fangio
1955 – Fangio
1956 – Moss
1957 – Fangio
1958 – Moss
1959 – Moss
1960 – Brabham
1961 – P Hill
1962 – G Hill
1963 – Clark
1964 – Clark
1965 – Clark
1966 – Brabham
1967 – Clark
1968 – G Hill
1969 – Stewart
1970 – Ickx
1971 – Stewart
1972 – Stewart
1973 – Peterson
1974 – Lauda
1975 – Lauda
1976 – Hunt
1977 – Andretti
1978 – Andretti
1979 – G Villeneuve
1980 – Jones
1981 – Prost
1982 – Arnoux
1983 – Piquet
1984 – Prost
1985 – Senna
1986 – Piquet
1987 – Mansell
1988 – Senna
1989 – Senna
1990 – Senna
1991 – Senna
1992 – Mansell
1993 – Prost
1994 – Schumacher
1995 – Schumacher
1996 – D Hill
1997 – Schumacher
1998 – Häkkinen
1999 – Häkkinen
2000 – Schumacher
2001 – Schumacher
2002 – Schumacher
2003 – Schumacher
2004 – Schumacher
2005 – Alonso
2006 – Alonso
2007 – Hamilton
2008 – Hamilton
2009 – Vettel
2010 – Vettel
According to my analysis the best Formula One drivers are:
01. Schumacher 8×1
02. Senna – 5×1
03. Fangio – 4×1
04. Clark – 4×1
05. Ascari – 3×1
06. Moss – 3×1
07. Stewart – 3×1
08. Prost – 3×1
09. Brabham – 2×1
10. G Hill – 2×1
11. Lauda – 2×1
12. Andretti – 2×1
13. Piquet – 2×1
14. Mansell – 2×1
15. Häkkinen – 2×1
16. Alonso – 2×1
17. Hamilton – 2×1
18. Vettel – 2×1
19. P Hill – 1×1
20. Ickx – 1×1
21. Peterson – 1×1
22. Hunt – 1×1
23. G Villeneuve – 1×1
24. Jones – 1×1
25. Arnoux – 1×1
26. D Hill – 1×1
27. Barrichello – 3×2
28. Farina – 2×2
29. Surtees – 2×2
30. Fittipaldi – 2×2
31. Regazzoni – 2×2
32. J Villeneuve – 2×2
33. Coulthard – 2×2
34. Räikkonen – 2×2
35. Massa – 2×2
36. Gonzalez – 1×2
37. Hawthorn – 1×2
38. Von Trips – 1×2
39. Gurney – 1×2
40. Hulme – 1×2
41. Rindt – 1×2
42. Reutemann – 1×2
43. Berger – 1×2
44. Patrese – 1×2
45. Button – 1×2
46. Webber – 1×2
47. Montoya – 4×3
48. Scheckter – 3×3
49. Brooks – 2×3
50. Fagioli – 1×3
:)
Tango (@tango)
18th January 2011, 12:28
I’d like to see the detail of that. Interesting method. I would have chosen Prost over Senna for a couple of years but never mind. Arnoux really deserves the place you give him.
Tango (@tango)
18th January 2011, 12:29
It is a very interesting method I have to say, but one that factors in a lot of “longevity” as a calculation method.
Dougie (@f1droid)
18th January 2011, 12:36
Interesting stats, and very well done. I like what you’ve done here, and the top 8 I think is spot on.
However, mechanical retirements are part of the game, and driving your car fast without tearing it apart is an important feature of a racing driver. Also, unfortunately, if you made each car bulletproof it’s not necessarily true that the finishing orders would have been as predicted. Whose to say that whoever retired in the lead/2nd/wherever would not have been caught and passed by another who has made better use of tyres & fuel.
David B (@david-b)
18th January 2011, 13:28
Great jobs.
And pretty agreeble results!
Marco
18th January 2011, 14:37
Thank you… :) I was also satisfied with the results, and think the same… The famous top 8 “Schumacher, Senna, Fangio, Clark, Ascari, Moss, Stewart and Prost” is there and also drivers like Peterson, Gilles Villeneuve or Rene Arnoux should have all one 1 title, if mechanical retirements weren t present to decide…
JonesyUK (@jonesyuk)
18th January 2011, 13:31
Maybe do a percentage of best driver against number of seasons raced?
e.g. Clark had 8 full seasons so 4/8 = 50%
Schumacher had 16 full seasons so 8/16 = 50%
P.s. Clark was the best ever IMO. He won 50% of all the races his car didn’t breakdown.
Marco
18th January 2011, 14:27
If percentage will come to play, then the results will look like this:
01. Ascari – 68,750 %
02. Vettel – 58,064 % (still driving)
03. Clark – 55,555 %
04. Fangio – 52,941 %
05. Senna – 49,689 %
06. Schumacher – 49,626 % (still driving)
07. Hamilton – 49,295 % (still driving)
08. Moss – 37,878 %
09. Stewart – 33,333 %
10. Andretti – 25,781 %
11. Prost – 23,618 %
12. Alonso – 22,784 % (still driving)
13. G Villeneuve – 22,388 %
14. Häkkinen – 19,875 %
15. Hunt – 17,391 %
16. Lauda – 16,959 %
17. Mansell – 16,042 %
18. Piquet – 15,196 %
19. P Hill – 14,893 %
20. D Hill – 13,913 %
21. Brabham – 13,821 %
22. Peterson – 12,195 %
23. Jones – 12,068 %
24. G Hill – 12,000 %
25. Ickx – 11,403 %
26. Arnoux – 10,738 %
27. Farina – 39,393 %
28. Gonzalez – 26,923 %
29. Massa – 26,315 % (still driving)
30. Von Trips – 25,925 %
31. Hawthorn – 22,222 %
32. Räikkonen – 21,794 %
33. J Villeneuve – 20,245 %
34. Regazzoni – 19,696 %
35. Fittipaldi – 18,750 %
36. Surtees – 17,117 %
37. Rindt – 16,666 %
38. Barrichello – 16,447 % (still driving)
39. Coulthard – 13,008 %
40. Webber – 11,111 % (still driving)
41. Gurney – 11,627 %
42. Hulme – 9,821 %
43. Reutemann – 9,589 %
44. Button – 8,994 % (still driving)
45. Berger – 7,619 %
46. Patrese – 6,250 %
47. Fagioli – 85,714 %
48. Montoya – 70,212 %
49. Brooks – 44,736 %
50. Scheckter – 42,857 %
Ascari and Clark were very dominant in some of their years, so I am not surprised to see them so high… Vettel and Hamilton who are both at the moment in top 10 will probably drop after some time, it all depends on their cars and their performances…
antifia (@antifia)
18th January 2011, 15:30
You see, that is when comparisons between drivers that raced in different periods and had shorter or longer careers go wrong. Vettel is by not strech of the imagination the 2nd best driver ever to grace F1.
Marco
18th January 2011, 15:48
And that is why I don t like to use the percentage… :) I just put it here, because it was requested by one user…
David
29th July 2018, 2:37
It’s not even just f1 Clark won in every type of race
sw6569 (@sw6569)
18th January 2011, 13:40
Only thing I don’t get about that list is how Raikkonen wasn’t champion in 2005. Otherwise its a really interesting list, and certainly points out the dominant drivers! F1 would be a lot more boring if the results looked like that!
Marco
18th January 2011, 13:55
In 2005 Alonso was the qualifyier and also racer of the year…
PieLighter (@pielighter)
18th January 2011, 16:57
In 2005 the MP4-20 was easily the best car, but was incredibly unreliable, because it was designed be Adrian Newey. That lost Raikkonen the championship. Alonso was just there to capitalise on McLaren’s failures.
Marco
18th January 2011, 17:30
But Alonso was very consistent that year… If he wasn t in lead, he was driving almost every time on 2nd place… And btw. Räikkonen had a quite mediocre start to the season with McL being the best only from Imola…
Burnout
18th January 2011, 18:30
You’re right Marco. People forget that while the MP4/20 was the fastest car, the R25 wasn’t much slower. And Alonso was able to keep up with the McLarens, if not beat them.
sw6569 (@sw6569)
18th January 2011, 19:47
well, thing is according to your graph which takes away unreliabilities I just can’t see how Raikkonen wouldn’t have won. I’m happy to be convinced otherwise, but my memory of the season is that he was in the lead or near to the lead and then had mechanical failures. Just wondering how you worked it out that was all – its less to do with who was the best between Alonso and Raikkonen, more to do with who suffered from reliability issues, and that was certainly raikkonen
Eric
19th January 2011, 6:48
Alonso was really consistent that year. He won four out of the first seven races and never really looked back. I don’t know if Kimi ever had the lead that year. Alonso deserved that season hands down. I think that Kimi only had 3 major mechanical faults all year and one of those was the European GP when he flat spotted his front tyre and the resulting vibration broke his front suspension.
PJA
18th January 2011, 12:46
Mansell may be my favourite driver and the main reason I got into Formula 1 but I am going to have to vote for Clark on this one.
sw6569 (@sw6569)
18th January 2011, 13:36
I never knew Clark as a racer. Wasn’t born, so its hard to appreciate his brilliance. Mansell was a hero to me, and massively underrated because he won in a dominant car.
Mansell for me. No disrespect for Clark meant by that but its simply a gut feeling.
S.J.M (@sjm)
18th January 2011, 15:04
Clark, can be and will only be Clark. Theres a whole bunch of drivers i love and admire, but none more so then Clark.
antifia (@antifia)
18th January 2011, 15:20
How on earth Mansel got to eliminate Nelson Piquet? It says a huge deal about the age and nationality of the people voting. Piquet not only won 3 championships in which he had tough competition (Mansel’s only championship was won in a Williams that was on a class of its own, and his team mate was Ricardo Patrese), but also won one of those championships over Mansel himself – and they were teamates. Of the 5 years Piquet had a winning car (80, 81, 83, 86 and 87) he was champion in 3 occasions and second in the remaining 2. Mansel also had a winning car on five occasions (86, 87, 90, 91 and 92) but only manages 1 first, 2 seconds and 2 thirds in those years. How on earth could he eliminate Piquet?!
Marco
18th January 2011, 15:54
Piquet and Mansell were very equal and it is always tough to say who was the better driver… 3 titles against 1 tells nothing… It is the same as saying Button is a better driver then Moss, because he is world champion and Stirling isn t… There are also another things that decide, not just driver s abilites… Personally I rate Nigel a tiny bit higher then Nelson… And it looks like the other guys here, too…
DeadManWoking (@deadmanwoking)
18th January 2011, 16:07
More a case of the sins of the son being visited on previous generations methinks.
Antifia
20th January 2011, 10:39
Marco, the Moss/Button argument is not real paralel to the Mansel/Piquet circunstances. The latter were not only contemporaries in F1, they were teamates for 2 years – it was a close match in 86 and 87, but Piquet won it.
Icthyes (@icthyes)
18th January 2011, 16:16
Very selective. Mansell should have won in 86 and 87, so straight away it could have been 3-2 to Mansell. Mansell also raced against Prost and Senna at the peak of their abilities, Piquet by comparison beat the likes of Jones, Rosberg and Reutemann and what year did he beat both Prost and Senna? Oh yeah that’s right, when he had a dominant car.
Kenny (@kenny)
18th January 2011, 17:42
Piquet beat Prost in 1983 when their cars were very closely matched. And what’s so shabby about beating the likes of Jones, Reutemann, and Rosberg?
David B
18th January 2011, 18:46
Piquet won all his championships with shrewdness more than heavy foot (in ’81 he took opportunity from Reutemann against Jones struggle, in ’83 from illegal fuel by Brabham and in ’87 from Mansell crash and mechanical failures). He wasn’t probably the best of his time, he never dominated, but for sure was a great driver, even if he got a lot in his career.
At the end I see Mansell and PIquet at the same level. Mansell was faster, but Nelson was smarter in the hot moments.
Eric
19th January 2011, 6:50
It could have been 3-2 to Mansell but it wasn’t. He was a great driver to watch and one of my favorites but I really do fail to see how he is a greater champion than Piquet.
Antifia
20th January 2011, 11:02
Icthyes: I really don’t know what to make of your Mansel-should-have-won 86 and 87 argument…ehr..he didn’t and he didn’t having the same equipment Piquet had. Senna, Prost, Piquet & Mansel had almost overlaping careers in F1 so I don’t understand your second comment either. Piquet did beat Prost to the title in 83 and Mansel in 87 (and almost beat both of them in 86, had he not been called by the team to make an unnecessary pitstop when he was leading in the last race in Australia). and he competed against Senna from 84 to 91. Regarding your question about what year Piquet beat both Prost and Senna, that was 87 – the same year he beat Mansel with equal equipment. When did Mansel beat both Prost and Senna? Never. In 92 he beat Senna but with such disparity in equipment that one can’t really count it – the only guy he was really competing against was Patrese… that was not a conquest, it was a gift.
George (@george)
18th January 2011, 18:18
You disagree with the consensus and dip straight into the personal insults? I voted for Piquet but it was always going to be a close call.
Antifia
20th January 2011, 10:45
I never thought saying someone is young and British was an insult…I still don’t.
David-A (@david-a)
18th January 2011, 22:31
Mansell finished ahead of Piquet in the other year they were teammates.
slowhand (@slowhand)
18th January 2011, 15:47
Clark wins on class alone. If Mansell had 10% of the outstanding personality of Jim Clark he would be a much better person.
KingNigel (@kingnigel)
18th January 2011, 15:51
I voted Nigel Mansell because he’s my hero. No disrespect to Jimmy Clark who’s a legend !
Faraz
18th January 2011, 16:15
I think that Mansell had been very unlucky at some points in his career he could have easily taken the 86 title if his wheel had not gone and in 87 he hurt himslef badly I think he would have taken that one as well and became a three times champ. Also I don’t think its right to put them head to head as they were two very diffrent drivers Clark was known for being very smooth and precise wether as Mansell was known to be very aggressive and with his balls-out driving. So its not the most fairest of comparisons.
Eggry (@eggry)
18th January 2011, 16:27
Sorry, Nigel.
Sush Meerkat
18th January 2011, 19:14
This is a difficult one for me (if I could vote, I really need to register), while the records state Clark was “the best” of an era, I can’t really have an opinion of him because I’ve never seen him race. I can look at records and stats all day long but I wouldn’t see his racecraft from those.
Mansell I have seen race, he was a monster with no fear, isn’t there a rumour he drove with a broken back once?, as such I’d have to vote for “Our Nige” as the brits say or “El Lione” as the Italian’s called him when he raced for Ferrari.
Was Clark the best driver out of a pack of mules?, or was he truely gifted, and was Mansell a monster machine breaker and tyre ruiner in an era of some of the greatest and nastiest rivalries?
Achille Varzi
18th January 2011, 20:33
I have read some of the posts in this Clark vs Mansell and it looks like a landslide for Clark.
And of course it could not be different, I do not think any driver ever can safely be considered better than Clark.
The overwhelming superiority is also a result of Mansell sneaking through the last round due to nationalistic sympathy vs the much more gifted and successful Piquet.
macca77
18th January 2011, 20:42
Here is my list of winners according to the draws:
Fernando Alonso vs Michael Schumacher -> Michael Schumacher
Jim Clark vs Nigel Mansell -> Jim Clark
Mika Hakkinen vs Alain Prost -> Alain Prost
Alberto Ascari vs Niki Lauda -> Niki Lauda
Emerson Fittipaldi vs Juan Manuel Fangio -> Juan Manuel Fangio
Kimi Räikkönen vs Jackie Stewart -> Jackie Stewart
Graham Hill vs Ayrton Senna -> Ayrton Senna
Lewis Hamilton vs Jack Brabham -> Jack Brabham
Michael Schumacher vs Jim Clark -> Michael Schumacher
Alain Prost vs Niki Lauda -> Alain Prost
Juan Manuel Fangio vs Jackie Stewart -> Juan Manuel Fangio
Ayrton Senna vs Jack Brabham -> Ayrton Senna
Michael Schumacher vs Alain Prost -> Michael Schumacher
Juan Manuel Fangio vs Ayrton Senna -> Ayrton Senna
Michael Schumacher vs Ayrton Senna -> Michael Schumacher
But I know is gonna be Senna the winner, Schumi is not gonna die racing so he will never beat Senna.
Marco
18th January 2011, 21:33
Lauda better then Ascari? Don t know what the others say, but for me CLEARLY not…
Dipak T
18th January 2011, 22:03
CLark over Schumacer any day of the week.
David-A (@david-a)
18th January 2011, 22:32
It would be quite close actually.
Dipak T
18th January 2011, 22:50
Im not sure, Schumacher only beats Clark in number of championships. On points per fininis and poles, Clark obliterates him. The guy won every other race he finished, and started just under half on pole.
Scribe (@scribe)
18th January 2011, 23:52
Damn close on a few of them, I’m going to be voting Clark when he hits Schuey but it’s going to be easily the tightest round so far.
Eric
19th January 2011, 6:52
That would be really close. Personally I couldn’t put Schumacher above Prost or Clark.
melkurion (@melkurion)
19th January 2011, 11:01
I’m not so sure Lauda will beat ascari… But stragely I would think Ascari has a better chance of beating Prost then Lauda…just a feeling.
As for Schumacher vs Clark, I am, and always have been a huge Schumacherfan, but I’ll vote Clark on that one…
mrgrieves (@mrgrieves)
18th January 2011, 21:40
Clark wins this hands down. I loved how electric Nigel was but Clark was in my eyes the best there ever was. To be hounest i havent seen that much of him in action but the storys and stats add up to the greatest ever!
clarkfan1 (@)
18th January 2011, 23:12
As a Clark fan from the ‘60’s, it is great to see the comments being generated from this exercise. I always felt that so many newer F1 fans never recognized what a great driver he was. He just loved to drive, compete and win. Thanks Keith!!
A 4 time winner at Spa (the old track), a place he hated. I always liked the quote from Spa in 1967: “Clark came through at the end of the first lap of the race so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident.”
Granted, just one small example but when you look at his too short career, he had so much more yet to go.
Marco
19th January 2011, 8:19
In Spa, Jim was much better in races, as he had there some pretty mediocre qualifyings…
hope12839 (@hope12839)
18th January 2011, 23:33
Had Clark lived he would have won the title in 1968 and then again in 1970 with the Lotus 72, and again in 1972 and 1973 with the Lotus 72. After which he might have followed Stewarts’ lead and retire from F1 while still relatively young; he would be 37. He would have 6 world titles by that point!! My guess is he may have turned to sports car racing or endurance racing, as it was in sports cars that he got his start back in the 50’s.
Then again he may have stayed on a few more years and drove the Lotus 79 to another championship.
Had the above scenario taken place there wouldn’t be any question at all as to the greatest, as Clark used his supreme skills and proper gentlemanly conduct to win. He never resorted to driving his competitors off the road as did Schumacher and Senna; and trust me, I am a huge Senna fan; but he did have his personality faults as did Schumacher.
Jim Clark all the way!!
melkurion (@melkurion)
19th January 2011, 11:26
I have a general question!
Look at Clark’s picture, he’s just won a race and his this big Laurel Wreath around his neck, does anybody know why and when they stopped doing those??????????
I’ve been googling away, but witout any luck….
Dipak T
19th January 2011, 11:46
They still do it at Indy I think, but Im not sure when it was stopped in F1
Alec
20th January 2011, 4:07
You know something nice about this? People like Clark, let alone Fangio, were before my time and I suspect that of most people on here. I’m 46, so my earliest memories are Stewart, Fittipaldi, etc. It’s great to see that memories are longer than I would have expected.
Bartholomew
20th January 2011, 5:44
Jim Clark was sublime, divine
And the green and gold Lotus driven by Clark is the Vision Of Paradise
Bartholomew
20th January 2011, 5:48
In Italy they called Mansell “Il Leone” – he sure was a tough, fast guy.He would be the right one to race against Hamilton like two wild dogs going at each other.
kimbo (@)
20th January 2011, 21:03
I was lucky enough to have seen Jimmy Clark race,in f1 sports and saloon cars and even then you knew you were witnessing something very special – no one comes near in my opinion and i was a ‘Nige’ fan too !