McLaren slash the gap to Red Bull in Sepang

97 comments on “McLaren slash the gap to Red Bull in Sepang”

1. 

   Calum
   9th April 2011, 12:30

   ‘A bit more wing’ was all it took, so why did they not sacrafice top speed for ‘wing’ last year when they had f-duct?
   1. 

      Scribe
      9th April 2011, 15:27

      They consistantly did, and it worked occasionaly but by the end of the season most teams had decent functional systems.
2. 

   Paper Tiger
   9th April 2011, 12:40

   This is a very interesting situation, especially as the McLaren is a newer car and therefore is likely to have more development potential. Personally, I think it’ll be good to see Vettel taken off pole sometime soon. Nobody doubts his amazing ability to lead from the front, but it would be good for both F1 and Vettel’s racecraft to see him battle up the field.
   1. 

      Alex Bkk (@alex-bkk)
      9th April 2011, 13:11

      I mentioned something similar on another thread.

      I’m sure Vettel is quicker but a better racer, that’s yet to be proven.

      Tomorrow could be our lucky day!
      1. 

         dennis
         9th April 2011, 13:30

         Seeing that both Vettel and Hamilton are running almost identical straight lines speeds it could indeed be very interesting. Let’s hope we get a good first half of the race between the two and then maybe some rain to puzzle things up a bit! =)
      2. 

         Solo (@solo)
         9th April 2011, 13:43

         You are sure Vettel is quicker? Quicker than who? He only proved to be quicker than Webber until now. Winning in qualifying over others when you have the faster car doesn’t mean you are quicker.
         Actually considering last years Red Bull advantage, the fact that Alonso and Hamilton challenged him a few times in qualifying makes it seem that he probably isn’t quicker but slower.
         I don’t think he will be having such an easy time if Hamilton was his teammate.
         1. 

            RIISE (@riise)
            9th April 2011, 14:13

            You can only ever prove your pace against your team-mate. But if you try to look at relatively between car performance you can get an idea of who is quickest.
         2. 

            Sushi Meerkat (@sushi-meerkat)
            9th April 2011, 14:21

            Actually considering last years Red Bull advantage, the fact that Alonso and Hamilton challenged him a few times in qualifying makes it seem that he probably isn’t quicker but slower.

            You forget how many points Vettel lost from his car breaking down, i’m getting a bit tired of seeing those types of comments above, its controversy for its own sake.

            He is blindingly fast when he’s on his own on the track, he’s beating Webber who was renowned as a Quali specialist until Vettel joined the team.
            1. 

               Icthyes (@icthyes)
               9th April 2011, 14:40

               His unreliability has nothing to do with the times Alonso and Hamilton chased him in qualifying.
            2. 

               patrickl
               9th April 2011, 20:56

               Besides, the huge advantage was stil there even if the car was a tad unreliable at times.

               It’s better to have a car that can win every race but finishes only 4 out of every 5 races rather than a car that is best for P3 at best. Which (in Hamilton’s case) only finishes 4 out of 5 races as well.
         3. 

            pSynrg (@psynrg)
            9th April 2011, 14:55

            Vettel has raw pace, as do Hamilton & Alonso. I’m sure that is the general consensus. Certainly my own.

            Others that can shout at the top have a different set of skills to use. But these guys are the quickest…
            1. 

               Scribe
               9th April 2011, 15:35

               I reckon Button is the example of where that car is, he drives it exactly to potential, he’s also sly on the track and a predatory scheemer in his overtaking, when Button is in the zone he acheives the total maximum of what his cars can acheive. Unfortunatley his in a team making cars designed for Lewis Hamilton, who takes his speed by controlling a car gone beyond the limit, so the days of his dominance at Brawn seem to have passed.

               Webber drives the Redbull under potential, I think because it’s designed to suit Vettle but thats just conjecture on my part.

               Vettle does drive his car faster than it should, he has massive confidence and the car is designed to suit his idiosyncrasies, however he drives a car so good it seems like it can be driven to the edge and brought back under control thanks to the masssive downforce and stability contained within it.
            2. 

               ROSSI
               9th April 2011, 16:02

               well put psynrg :)
         4. 

            David BR
            9th April 2011, 15:45

            I agree, Vettel is quick but I very much doubt quicker than Hamilton or Alonso. The Red Bull flatters him and Webber a lot. Certainly he’s not as good as either in fighting on track.
      3. 

         MercedesBeanz (@mercedesbeanz)
         9th April 2011, 15:26

         Clearly Lewis is out-performing his McLaren, Vettel, well; he is who he is ;)
         1. 

            US_Peter (@us_peter)
            9th April 2011, 23:16

            That’s what you’re talking about? ;-)
3. 

   KazeXT (@kazext)
   9th April 2011, 12:56

   Considering that Sepang puts a higher premium on aerodynamics than Melbourne, closing the gap by that much seems even more impressive.
   1. 

      bananarama (@bananarama)
      9th April 2011, 13:10

      Before bringing their car to the tests, McLaren were considering their car a ‘downforce monster’. Maybe thats what it is now they have a working exhaust system and time to work on setups without the car breaking down all the time.
      I still remember how people were screaming Hamilton shoud get outof McLaren as fast as possibe .. where are they now I wonder?!
      1. 

         Alex Bkk (@alex-bkk)
         9th April 2011, 13:19

         I agree, I was very critical of Macca during the Barcelona testing but I also factored in to the equation… Never underestimate McLaren. Certainly a lot of of people are feeling a bit silly now over the McLaren’s present performance.

         Certainly Alonso wasn’t one of them. He predicted a McLaren to be fighting for the podium in the Aus GP.
      2. 

         Sushi Meerkat (@sushi-meerkat)
         9th April 2011, 14:22

         I still remember how people were screaming Hamilton shoud get outof McLaren as fast as possibe .. where are they now I wonder?!

         They are sitting in their arm chairs still, reading the latest comments from Prisoner Monkeys and BasCD (there’s a lot to go through!).

         :)
         1. 

            DaveW
            9th April 2011, 15:27

            Still here. This is not a game of horse shoes. Close is not enough. Evidence remains that if you want to be champ, your best chance is in a Newey car now. Can McLaren get titles this year? Possibly, espeically if Ferrari stay out of the picture. But why do it the hard way? Hamilton is carrying .2-.3s on Button generally, which means that now and last year, he is heaving that car forward on pure talent just to be second/third best. Hamilton did not swear a blood oath to serve Woking. When Webber gets the sack this year, he should go with the fizzy drinks people.
            1. 

               SMB
               9th April 2011, 17:25

               I think I’d wait a few races before comming to a decision. The new McLaren is such a new design that it likely has tonnes of development potential. More than any other competitive team. Couple that with the fact that McLaren seem to be able to develop anything into a winner, I’d say that he’s in pretty good company. Lets not forget McLaren gave him the fastest car on the track for 2 of the 4 seasons that he’s been there and they may well end up doing it again this year. It takes more than Newey to make a good race car.
   2. 

      Solo (@solo)
      9th April 2011, 13:51

      I that you are wrong. Red Bull don’t get their biggest advantage in circuits like Malaysia and Turkey. Mclaren last year was never bad at tracks with big straights and fast corners. Melbourne is actually more fitting to Red Bull.
      Red Bull is best at tracks with small straights and lots of slower corners with a few fast corners. Remember Hungary last year?
      Malaysia doesn’t have much small tight corners.
      1. 

         Rich
         9th April 2011, 14:25

         From what I understood from last year Macca were awesome with the long straights & tight corners because of their great straight line speed and precise nature in the slow corners. Whereas Red Bell were better on the tracks with long fast corners. I thought I remember the drivers saying that they couldn’t believe that the Red Bulls were going flat out through certain corners last year.
         1. 

            Icthyes (@icthyes)
            9th April 2011, 14:41

            The impression I got last year was that McLaren were actually rubbish in the slow corners (Monaco? Hungary?) and were good at the fast stuff (Turkey, Spa)
            1. 

               Scribe
               9th April 2011, 15:46

               I’d agree, the McLaren seems so stiff that the bumpy slow staff throws it way out of wack, although it seemed to pass that somewhat in Singapore, in Hamiltons hands at least.

               It did alright in Aus but that was a barley tested car so what we’re seeing here might be closer to the cars potential on a track that suits it better.

               It remains to be seen how well McLaren can develop what they got now, what lessons they’ve learned from last year, an whether it’ll be a bit like last year an only able to challenge the incredibly versatile Redbull on certain circuits.

               One characteristic I’d still like to see is the differance in race peace the McLaren seemed to have last year, I’d liked to know also whether the Redbulls still suffer from the mild slow down they seem to last year.
         2. 

            Ru_BD
            9th April 2011, 16:14

            anddddd where are Ferrari……… where are they good, any body have any idea?
            1. 

               James (@jamesf1)
               9th April 2011, 16:53

               Last year Ferrari had the best all rounder car, at least in the hands of Alonso. They were not the quickest on the straights (that was Mclaren), nor were they through the corners (that was Red Bull).

               I reckon they’ll be the same this year once they’ve sorted out the gremlins they currently have. Mercedes is clearly the most powerful unit on the grid, so what Ferrari need to do is figure out how to get a bit more downforce to get themselves on to the front rows of the grid.
   3. 

      alex
      9th April 2011, 16:44

      If you consider that Webber is better than Button in quali, you can conclude that Mclarens are even faster this weekend.
      Vettel is definitely making the difference.
      1. 

         Solo (@solo)
         9th April 2011, 17:16

         Your post isn’t exactly at the right place but that’s one big conclusion you pulled there. From when to i have to conclude that Webber is better than Button. For all i know Button could be better.
         1. 

            patrickl
            9th April 2011, 21:00

            Actually I’d say Webber simply performed poorly here.

            Last year Webber was on average only 5 hundreths of a second slower than Vettel in qualifying. In most places there really were only hundreths or at worst a tenth between them.
4. 

   Todfod (@todfod)
   9th April 2011, 13:16

   Ferrari are going to have their hands full with Renault tomorrow. I bet they never thought they would be battling for 5th and 6th before the season started.
5. 

   mcmercslr (@mcmercslr)
   9th April 2011, 13:17

   with the top 5 cars in the speed trap all mercedes powered, expect some more moaning from christian horner
   1. 

      Himmat S.
      9th April 2011, 13:24

      I don’t think that having a Mercedes engine makes you faster in the straightlines.
      1. 

         Pedal to the Vettel (@pedal-to-the-vettel)
         9th April 2011, 13:44

         @Himmat

         I know the Mercedes engine has a “few” more horsepower than the Renault engines, just not sure from the top of my head how much…
         1. 

            Pedal to the Vettel (@pedal-to-the-vettel)
            9th April 2011, 13:52

            @last post

            James Allen says around 18hp which gives just under 3 tenths a lap over the Renault engine, but the Renault is more fuel reliable which evens it out they say.
            1. 

               DaveW
               9th April 2011, 15:32

               Doesn’t Newey quote 30-40? or about 4-5%? As Icthyes suggests, but this why Newey likes them anyway, don’t need all the cooling the Mercedes does. More power equals more heat.
   2. 

      Icthyes (@icthyes)
      9th April 2011, 13:35

      Let them have a Merc too. Newey is all too happy to let them blow up in the name of his designs! :)
6. 

   bananarama (@bananarama)
   9th April 2011, 13:18

   I’m almost a littlebit disappointed that HRT didn’t beat one of the Virgins, still it looks like they can live up to the expectations I had after Mebourne. Still I’m a little undecided if thats more positive for HRT or negative for Virgin.
   Overall, the small teams don’t look so bad today :-)
   1. 

      Alex Bkk (@alex-bkk)
      9th April 2011, 13:22

      The real battle at HRT or anyother team is between team mates. Who will be the fastest of the slowest.

      Yarp! They look OK to me.
      1. 

         BasCB (@bascb)
         9th April 2011, 14:30

         But at this rate of improvement by HRT, the Virgins might come under pressure from Liuzzi at the next race already.

         Not sure about Karthikeyan, it might be a lot to do with getting into it again. And I can understand how rookies have more trouble getting a perfect lap in (Perez, Maldonado), although D’Ambrosio did fine and Di Resta has no trouble.
         Is it possible Di Restas winning not a “hatchling” series but a real adult racing series (DTM) helps him here?
         1. 

            bananarama (@bananarama)
            9th April 2011, 16:05

            Maybe that helped DiResta. The qualifying in DTM has multiple rounds building up to a single lap quali and he did fine there, so he sure knows to handle the pressure. Lets see how that develops.

            I’m looking forward to the improvements by the litte teams, this should get interesting! :-)
7. 

   Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
   9th April 2011, 13:22

   To all the people who believed that we should just crown Sebastian Vettel World Champion after qualifying in Melbourne, I say this: ha!
   1. 

      Alex Bkk (@alex-bkk)
      9th April 2011, 13:23

      I’m listening…
   2. 

      Solo (@solo)
      9th April 2011, 13:57

      Where is that VXR guy who couldn’t stop claiming over and over how Red Bull was gonna smoke with big time difference everyone away in Malaysia? He has gone awfully quiet.
      1. 

         iAltair
         9th April 2011, 14:25

         Big time gaps referring to Raceday, not Qualifying.
      2. 

         Nick
         9th April 2011, 14:25

         Australia always has different lap times. Kimi in 2007 was I think 1 sec ahead in qualifying.
      3. 

         VXR
         9th April 2011, 15:15

         You don’t score points in qualifying. There’s a long way to get yet.
         1. 

            Solo (@solo)
            9th April 2011, 17:18

            Yeah but you where saying they could qualify ahead of everyone easily and without using KERS.
            Not only did they need KERS but even with that on, it still wasn’t easy.
            1. 

               VXR
               9th April 2011, 18:31

               Maybe they’re running more downforce than McLaren? It’s probably going to rain for the race, isn’t it? Maybe they just needed the KERS to make up for what they have lost in straight line speed by putting more wing on?

               If they disappear off into the distance tomorrow on a wet/damp track, we’ll know for sure.
            2. 

               BBT (@bbt)
               9th April 2011, 20:18

               RBR running more DF of course there are they have it in buckets full.
               Interestingly it seems Hamilton has wound on a lot more down-force than Button.
8. 

   Cluffy_Wedge
   9th April 2011, 13:58

   Anyone noticed how Schumacher seemed to yank the wheel momentarily and then straighten out too early in basically every corner? Maybe he can’t handle the G forces anymore ;)
   1. 

      Damon
      9th April 2011, 14:04

      Or maybe he just isn’t good enough
      1. 

         RIISE (@riise)
         9th April 2011, 14:09

         I think he is well past his best. HE shows glimpses of his old self but it;s just not there anymore.

         It’s a shame he didn’t carry on after 2006 really.
         1. 

            nickthegeek
            9th April 2011, 14:19

            he needs to get out. If he wasnt who he was he wouldnt be sitting in that car now I can tell you that.
         2. 

            BasCB (@bascb)
            9th April 2011, 14:32

            Not arguing about Schu being a bit off the boil, but his malfunctioning DRS would not have helped as well.
      2. 

         Cluffy_Wedge
         9th April 2011, 14:32

         I think the fact that he completely dominated F1 with 5 back to back WDCs at Ferrari and made Senna wonder how on earth Schumacher could breeze past him so easily shows that he was once good enough. But again, Formula 1 is supposed to be the most physically straining sport in the world, if footballers can’t handle it past 40 (remember david Seaman in the world cup? Oh no my back’s gone!) what chance does he stand?
         1. 

            Solo (@solo)
            9th April 2011, 17:21

            What parallel universe are you coming from, where Schumi was breezing with his Ferrari past Senna?
            1. 

               Cluffy_Wedge
               9th April 2011, 19:21

               it was when he was at benneton. Duh?
            2. 

               The-Masked-Racer
               9th April 2011, 19:43

               I guess, he’s referring to GreatBritan-1993
               http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O28ifOywXsM
            3. 

               BBT (@bbt)
               9th April 2011, 20:22

               He is referring to when ~Sennas tyres were shot
            4. 

               Kev
               10th April 2011, 6:48

               Senna shot his tires by lap7? I have not had the privilege to watch the race, but read reports about it. He was passed by Prost in lap7 and a few laps later was done in by Schumacher.

               Please do share if you have any info if his tires were shot. I would love to read about the great man I have known very less about. (certainly not sarcastic).
               Link to report:
            5. 

               Kev
               10th April 2011, 6:58

               Why isn’t the link appearing on my original post?:-(
9. 

   Damon
   9th April 2011, 14:24

   It’s sad because people will always question his greatness now. Was he really that good? Would he have ever had coped with the likes of alonso, Hamilton etc. Personally I think they would have quite easily beat him with equal equipment. This comeback was in my eyes the biggest mistake of his life
   1. 

      Pedal to the Vettel (@pedal-to-the-vettel)
      9th April 2011, 14:47

      Agreed Damon, it’s sad but maybe he deserves this medicine, maybe it was the whole reason why he came back, to see if he really was the “GOAT” and it’s showing with a dark horse like Nico beating him at everything.

      After this year he might just drop it and admit he was the best in his era with reasons, but not this one.
   2. 

      VXR
      9th April 2011, 21:00

      Was he really that good? Would he have ever had coped with the likes of alonso, Hamilton etc.

      Just how long have you been watching F1?

      It’s quite clear that the Mercedes is currently no match for the front running cars, and it’s also quite clear that he shows glimpses of speed when the car does what it’s told.
   3. 

      Don Mateo
      9th April 2011, 21:32

      I think that he’ll call it a day if this season proves to be like the last – i.e. no wins, no podiums, struggling to get into Q3 and being thrashed by his teammate. The car might be off the pace but I think Rosberg is showing where it’s actually at, and Schumacher is underperforming.

      I don’t think he made such a huge mistake by coming back, I think it’ll end up being more of a mediocre footnote to a glittering career than completely destroying his reputation.
      1. 

         Kev
         10th April 2011, 6:53

         Let me see, Schumi is a 7-time world champion. Proved his stuff at two different teams. Alonso won at Renault and Hamilton at McLaren. Let Alonso do it atleast thrice more at Ferrari and let Hamilton atleast win another title with McLaren and then we will see about putting their names in the same line as Schumi.

         Even they would laugh if they have been told they are better than Schumi. His dedication, commitment, desire to win and the knowledge to help the team in unrivaled.

         Him and Senna are a different breed and I think we should be happy that we get to watch them race in the same generation albeit with a few years difference.
10. 

    TheNikii (@thenikii)
    9th April 2011, 14:55

    How Lewis managed fastest S3 time with only 14th top speed? Something doesn’t add up here.
    1. 

       ed24f1 (@ed24f1)
       9th April 2011, 15:37

       Sector 3 starts just after the infield hairpin, so it’s not just the long straights.
    2. 

       VXR
       9th April 2011, 15:40

       You run more downforce to help get around the bendy bits faster, but this has the side effect of lowering your top speed. It’s a fine balance.
       1. 

          Scribe
          9th April 2011, 15:55

          More downforce also does your tires a world of good as it balances the car better.

          However the amount of wing Lewis is carrying means he’ll be very reliant on the tow and DRS to overtake Vettel if it comes to it.

          That might have been McLarens thought process, might also be a problem to the first corner. On the other hand it may well help the car grip better of the mark.
          1. 

             VXR
             9th April 2011, 16:11

             Button went for less downforce. It gives him a better straight line speed. May come in handy.
             1. 

                Bernard
                9th April 2011, 16:38

                Not in the rain it won’t. :)
    3. 

       bosyber (@bosyber)
       9th April 2011, 16:06

       you win most time in slower and medium speed corners if you take them well, and by getting earlier on the throttle coming onto a straight.
       1. 

          VXR
          9th April 2011, 16:50

          @Bernard.

          No. Probably not in the rain, but it won’t rain all of the time. And the Pirelli wet tyres are going to be a bit weird for all of the drivers.
11. 

    ed24f1 (@ed24f1)
    9th April 2011, 15:39

    It’s frustrating that Massa matched Alonso all through qualifying until the final runs.

    Apart from Bahrain 2010, he still hasn’t got back the knack of producing barnstorming Q3 runs, which he used to do with ease.
12. 

    Scary Terry (@hatebreeder)
    9th April 2011, 15:51

    maybe lewis hamilton drank a lot of red bull.

    On a serious note, I think if mclaren figures out the flexing front wing technology, they’ll probably rule the track.
    1. 

       Himmat S.
       9th April 2011, 16:13

       Yea, definitely. Considering how some say that’s worth well over a second.
    2. 

       d1sciple
       9th April 2011, 17:48

       I actually think that the octopus exhaust could make the difference, if they make it work later in the year. It was a fascinating concept but really technically difficult.
13. 

    UKfanatic (@)
    9th April 2011, 16:05

    Like I´ve said in the aftermatch of melbourne mclaren are as fast as the reds, they discovered black powder with that new copycat titanium diffuser (they didnt had time to make it on carbon fiber or does titanium has special heat isolation properties). Ferrari remain as bad as they were in testing, not a very stable car when you see that you know that they arent going to be fastest, finnaly what a surprise vettel again very smooth driver very smoth drive. have you seen his front wheel camber and toe setting? just check the pictures really extreme.
    1. 

       VXR
       9th April 2011, 16:15

       Rumour has it that Red Bull have used a set up that takes into account that it will definitely rain tomorrow. 90% chance of rain is forecast.
       1. 

          Adam
          9th April 2011, 16:38

          How come everytime I read a thread it involves you with a rumour that always seems to put the best possible spin on the actual known facts for Red Bull.

          I don’t mind Vettel, but reading your posts is going a long way to making me cheer against him.
          1. 

             Solo (@solo)
             9th April 2011, 17:24

             Obviously he drinks too much Red Bull. Lol! Seriously dude. Link to where you have read that or stop talking about supposed rumors you create yourself.
14. 

    damon
    9th April 2011, 16:27

    i like your rumours lol why would they run a lower downforce setup for the chance of rain??
    1. 

       VXR
       9th April 2011, 16:48

       Who says Red Bull are running a ‘lower’ downforce setup? It’s Button that has gone for less downforce than either of the Red Bull’s or his team mate.

       Oh, and I’m neither a Vettel nor a RedBull fanboy. I just have a bit more insider info than most. :)
       1. 

          damon
          9th April 2011, 17:15

          you stated that the redbulls have gone for a setup that takes into account the chance of rain. the best setup for that would be a higher downforce setup. mclaren have matched them in every sector
          1. 

             VXR
             9th April 2011, 21:30

             Indeed they have, but just how much of that is down to Red Bull using KERS to negate the extra downforce?
15. 

    damon
    9th April 2011, 17:09

    so you are admitting that the mclaren is on par on the downforce stakes seeing as though hamilton was slower on the straights than both redbulls
    1. 

       Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
       9th April 2011, 17:12

       But Button was faster so I think the picture is more complicated than that.
       1. 

          damon
          9th April 2011, 17:23

          i was talikng about hamilton in particular. what we do know is it is very close between the two teams. lets up they are similar on race pace and tyre preservation then we will be in for a thriller
          1. 

             VXR
             9th April 2011, 17:36

             It will be interesting to see who pits first. Red Bull may just be using it’s KERS to make up for the larger amount of downforce it’s using. I wouldn’t be too surprised to see both Red Bull’s disappear into the distance if it rains. Maybe at races where the threat of rain is less likely, they will run less downforce and the gap will go back up again.

             Pole slot has also been moved to right hand side.
       2. 

          VXR
          9th April 2011, 17:27

          Indeed it is. :)

          No one is expecting it to rain all of the time during the race.

          Some drivers are thinking further ahead than qualifying.
16. 

    matt88
    9th April 2011, 18:05

    go Tonio, 1 sec faster than his teammate, the guy isn’t so bad indeed…
17. 

    Oliver
    9th April 2011, 19:25

    But his team mate had already qualified long before him so there was no need t keep pushing when reliability can be an issue for the race. So why not just save your engines. But beating someone who hasn”t raced in 5yrs can’t be considered a great feat.
18. 

    Seyr
    10th April 2011, 1:56

    Feels to me like Red Bull lost relative performance after fitting KERS.
19. 

    wasiF1 (@wasif1)
    10th April 2011, 2:58

    So far it looks like Mclaren are the only one who can spoil the Red Bull party

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