Teams have to approve new Bahrain date – Mosley

2011 Bahrain Grand Prix

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Bahrain International Circuit, 2004

The F1 teams must unanimously approve the Bahrain Grand Prix’s new place on the F1 calendar, according to former FIA president Max Mosley.

Speaking to the BBC this morning Mosley said: “You cannot change the calendar in the way it is proposed to change without the unanimous agreement of the teams.

“The teams that participate, if there’s going to be a change, for example moving the Indian event, there has to be unanimous agreement. It’s absolutely part of the rules, it’s article 66 of the International Sporting Code.

“So until the written agreement of the teams is forthcoming, you can’t actually change the date. It can’t be done”.

The article in question states:

No amendments shall be made to the Supplementary Regulations after the beginning of the period for receiving entries, unless unanimous agreement is given by all competitors already entered, or by decision of the stewards of the meeting for reasons of force majeure or safety (see Article 141).

Article 65 notes the Supplementary Regulations must include the “place and date of the meeting”. (View the International Sporting Code on the FIA website [PDF]).

The World Motor Sport Council decided on Friday that the Bahrain Grand Prix would take the place of the Indian Grand Prix on October 30th, and the Indian round would be moved to an unspecified date at the end of the year.

Mosley was sceptical about the inspection team sent to Bahrain by the FIA, headed by the vice president for sport Carlos Gracia:

“They sent someone to look at Bahrain. The gentleman they sent, a very, very nice man called Gracia, speaks no English and, as far as I know, speaks no Arabic.

“He was then taken around by the representatives of the government and, of course, had no knowledge of what was really going on and, above all, obviously didn’t ask to see the sort of people like a human rights lawyer would have asked to see”.

2011 Bahrain Grand Prix

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    64 comments on “Teams have to approve new Bahrain date – Mosley”

    1. If so, it seems clear to me that this might be a pre discussed scenario to have the FIA keep the “a-political” stance (not that they did in my view, but they argue they do) and throw it onto the teams to say no because of previous obligations for the India event and logistics in December.

      1. Interesting scenario, it does make sense.

        1. I think this is exactly what’s happening BasCB

    2. Unanimously agree?

      Looks like there won’t be a Bahrain GP after all then.

      1. Where is your proof that they won’t agree? Several – such as Renault – have already said they will happily race if safety can be guaranteed. And according to Rubens Barrichello, all of the drivers are happy to race if safety can be guaranteed. They don’t care about politics.

        1. I can bet at least Ross Brawn won’t vote to lengthen the calendar.

          1. He said the teams will not agree to a December 11 date. He did not say they would not agree to December 4. Less time for a turn-around, but a much better date for the teams. And if he thinks that there is no chance of the race going ahead, he could well vote in favour of a Bahrain race in December simply to put a resolution through.

            1. Normally I wouldn’t waste my time knocking down your ridiculous argument, but im bored.

              We don’t have testing any more so these guys have been very, very busy since the end of January, and I think to take them through to December and then get them going again at the end of January, we won’t sustain it…so, to tell them to carry on through to December and then they can have a few weeks off over Christmas and it starts again is not going to be sustainable.

              Thats a quote from Brawn himself so its pretty safe to say hes against a race in december, whether its on the 4th or the 11th. Presumably because there isnt that much difference between to two dates. You would think its obvious, but clearly not some…

        2. Renault – have already said they will happily race if safety can be guaranteed.

          You’re omitting the fuller quote: “we are happy to go to Bahrain as long as our safety and the security of the people living there is guaranteed.”

          They may or may not care about politics, but that has nothing to do with their public stance on going to race. Boullier explicitly addresses what’s happening to people on the ground, and the little snippets that are available of Barrichello’s quote about drivers’ concerns are in no way proof of what he and other drivers do or do not care about.

          1. I’m quoting the Autosport article. If something has been left out, it was unintentional.

        3. And earlier in the year Williams said that they wouldn’t support the race in Bahrain if it went ahead.

          Sure they could change their position, but will they?

        4. Also, Rubens obviously doesn’t read Mark Webber’s website…

        5. all of the drivers are happy to race if safety can be guaranteed.

          But it’s not guaranteed that safety will be guaranteed.

          1. Mouse_Nightshirt
            7th June 2011, 16:07

            When it comes to Bahrain, I can guarantee you that a guaranteed guarantee of guaranteed safety will be complete guaranteed by the government of Bahrain.

            At least, that’s how desperate they seem about the whole issue.

    3. If I were Ross Brawn or another team principal, I would be voting to keep India where it is and have Bahrain the week after Brazil. I think all the stuff gets flown to Abu Dhabi first before going back to Europe as it’s an international hub, so they’ll be going that way anyway. It also gives maximum time for Bahrain to calm down.

      Actually I’d vote for no change at all but it seems quite a few of the teams want to go to Bahrain this year so it’d be swimming against the current.

      1. I think that, whatever the teams do, it will be unanimous. There’s not going to be a few teams who vote in the opposite direction of everyone else. They’ll either agree to the current race arrangement, agree on the condition that Bahrain is moved to a December date, or vote not to go at all and restore the original calendar. It shouldn’t affect too many people, because it’s only been four days since the change. The organisers of the Indian Grand Prix were happy to move back to December, and since they were on-track for an Ocotber berth originally, it won’t affect them. Likewise, Bahrain will take anything they can get.

        1. It shouldn’t affect too many people, because it’s only been four days since the change.

          Except for fans who’d bought airline tickets and booked accomodation for the Indian GP who might have rushed to get refunds on those based on it moving…

          1. Possibly – but the notion of moving the Indian Grand Prix back to the end of the year was not something that the FIA came up with overnight. They had been talking with the organisers for the Indian Grand Prix for a while about the possibility of moving the race back. Once the organisers agreed to the change, it’s likely the FIA told them that it would have to be put to a vote and would be subject to agreement from FOTA and so on. That way, if anyone moved to cancel the moment they heard the news, the organisers could make sure the word was spread that fans should wait until everything was confirmed first.

            1. I think your underestimating the difficulty in changing bookings.

    4. Also it seems for the second time in 9 days we’re discussing whether F1 knows its own rules ;)

      1. Where would be the fun in that?!

    5. For anyone that’s interested there’s currently an on-line campaign to try to get Red Bull to pull out of the Bahrain GP on Avaaz:

    6. Why can’t they just wait until March and host the first GP of the year? Remembering that “money has nothing to do with it”.

    7. Why are this mans words still being reported?

      He disgraced himself, his country and motorsport and should be muted for life

      1. Like him or not, he still ran the FIA for a number of years so will have an idea of how everything works.

        1. And unlike his former partner in the F1 double act he still has an excellent brain
          and knows the system inside out.

          I don’t like Mosely. I don’t like the slimy, cheap rumpy-pumpy he used to think he was entitled to get involved in. But he’s paid the price of his ‘outing’ by the press. He used to be a brilliant organiser/co-ordinator
          /presenter of the F1 circus. And he sure knows where all the skeletons are buried.

          At a time like this, when so many people are striving to kid themselves that F1 isn’t as politized as all hell and always has been; when one part of F1’s controlling bodies doesn’t know what is truth, and another part is simply bewildered, you need a man with the steady mind of a man like Mosely ( with all his very many faults ) to tell us all that the emperor really has no clothes.

          So don’t shoot this particular, though rather obnoxious messenger. He happens to be dead right.

          1. I never had any time for Mad Max either, but although he may be mad, he’s not stupid. This must be the first time I agree with something Max has said.

            If those rumours a few months ago of him trying to destabilise Todt were true, well it now looks as if he need not have bothered: Todt has dug his own grave without Max’s help. Reminds me of the old saying, ‘Oppositions don’t win elections, Governments lose them’.

        2. And he has made a clever statement that no one had brought up before and that gives a new perspective from which to look at the current situation.

      2. He disgraced himself, his country and motorsport

        How and when?

        1. Surely you’re aware of this?

          Personally, I just thought the whole thing was quite funny.

          1. All he did was disgrace his marriage vows – everything else was legal and between consenting adults.

            Is that more of a disgrace than saying the Bahrain GP will go ahead on the day they medical staff for the crime of treating patients?

      3. Why are this mans words still being reported?

        Because he was the political puppeteer for years. He might not be too popular, but he knows the ins and the outs of rule book. Or didn’t you notice how the FIA have said nothing about how FOTA need to agree to host the race first? They’ve made it seem like they’ve voted to go back to Bahrain, so Formula 1 will go back and nothing can stop it from happening. No mention of FOTA. In fact, most people were unaware of the need for FOTA to agree until Mosley pointed it out.

        1. There is no mention of FOTA by Mosely either, because FOTA doesn’t have anything to do with it, FOTA’s agreement isn’t required for anything.

          1. Ummm, Didn’t Mosley say the teams need to agree to it?

            FOTA being the teams way of representing themselves?

    8. Could Domenicali not have voted in favour of the Bahrain GP on behalf of all the teams at the last WMSC meeting anyway?

      1. Thats what I was wondering – whether Domenicali’s vote representing the teams would be taken as the unanimous agreement. Doesn’t seem very democratic, but the rules don’t really specify what they mean by unanimous agreement. Despite what Max says, there is nothing in there about it having to be in writing.

      2. Could Domenicali not have voted in favour of the Bahrain GP on behalf of all the teams at the last WMSC meeting anyway?

        Domenicalli wouldn’t have voted unless FOTA came to an agreement beforehand. From the sounds of things, FOTA don’t want to go to Bahrain in October, but they’re willing to talk about a December slot. So Domenicalli, if he represents FOTA at the WMSC (does he?), would likely have voted in favour of going back to Bahrain to make sure Formula 1 would be going back. This would pave the way for FOTA to discuss changing the date; if the WMSC rejected going to Bahrain, FOTA would never have the opportunity to discuss it. FOTA can still reject the proposal of going back to Bahrain, but by voting in favour of restoring the race, they can reject the proposal on their terms.

        1. But then there’s still the issue of HRT not being a FOTA member…

          1. Wow, what hero’s HRT would be if they stand up to everyone else and stop F1 going to Bahrain…

            I overly suspect that won’t happen though…

        2. Sounds plausible enough!

          Not sure if he would be specifically representing FOTA though.

      3. Whitmarsh is the FOTA President and he can express the desire of the 11 teams he represents.

        1. Whitmarsh has a conflict of interest when it comes to Bahrain.

          1. Indeed, a massive one in fact.

            Whitmarsh aside, I wish the Bahrain authorities would understand that having a race in October would just draw more attention to what they are getting up to and not show the world how normal things are at all. I guess that’s too much like wishful thinking.

            Just forget about this year and move onto 2012 for lord’s sake!

    9. Bigbadderboom
      7th June 2011, 13:51

      I agree with others here that it looks like the final decision will rest with FOTA, but remember that although FOTA act as one they don’t include a HRT team that must also agree, as they have no FOTA membership. I can think of a few reasons why they may object, but the biggest one would be costs.
      Another issue is global brand protection. Mark Webbers objections have found global support, a wagon that Red Bull would love to hitch a ride on, positive, free global publicity is priceless. There are too many big brands to keep happy. I really wouldn’t want to be Martin Whitmarsh who has very heavy investment at McLaren from Bahrain. Can’t see the teams supporting this, far too hot a potatoe for them.

    10. FOTA don’t like an October 30 date for Bahrain, but they’re open to an end-of-season berth.

    11. HRT can block it, without FOTA being compromised…

    12. It is only during the last few days I’ve realized what a nasty piece of work Max is. After the prostitute scandal the prince of Bahrain refused to shake hands with him. What we are seeing now is a savage attempt by Max to publicly damage Bahrain. He is trying to portray himself as a “nice guy” standing up for the protesters, but all he wants is to throw as much dirt on the Bahrain government as possible to get revenge. For this reason, people should not listen to him.

      1. I think the Bahraini government has already damaged itself enough. There will be hardly anyone outside of F1 taking notice of what Mosley says.

        1. Mosley has been reported on all the major news sites and he’s written a column in the Telegraph. He’s spreading the word about the acts of the Bahrain government using extremely evocative language: “When these measures failed to crush the protests, the Bahrain government called in troops from neighbouring Saudi Arabia to crush all opposition with naked force.” He is not criticizing Bahrain, he is smearing them as well as trying to influence the FIA to not race there to fulfill his petty revenge.

          1. I think that the Bahraini government, in arresting, beating, and killing doctors who treated protesters (among a vast array of other things) is doing a pretty good job of smearing itself.

            1. Yeah, I think to be honest, with Max’s interest in F1 leading him to be interested in the Bahrain issue, it’s not hard to imagine that he would be against it.

              For what it’s worth, I think there are a lot more people that he should be more upset with.

              Considering what Bahrain is doing, Max looks like a saint.

    13. Mosley, a known fascists gets caught having an orgy with girls dressed as Nazis who, as fascists killed 6 million Jews – legal or not…it’s a disgrace

      If you have an issue with F1 in Bahrain surly you should have an issue with the BBC talking to a man like this

      What’s really funny is in 1959 he campaigned for the repatriation of black people citing amongst other things their sexual deviancy as a reason to ship them of home, clearly the only one guilty of that is him and I wish some one would ship him off for good

      1. Mouse_Nightshirt
        7th June 2011, 16:11

        Actually, he was caught having a S&M session with several prostitutes. The whole nazi thing was disproven, and although I can feel thoroughly sorry for his wife, he did nothing legally wrong.

        Whether or not I agree with what he’s done in the past, he makes a very good point now.

      2. What’s really funny is in 1959 he campaigned for the repatriation of black people citing amongst other things their sexual deviancy as a reason to ship them of home

        In 1959 he was about 19 and had spent all of his life being raised by a family of dedicated fascists & white supremacists.

        I’m only 32 but I’d hate you to judge me on the things I was saying and doing when I was 19.

        I never thought I’d find myself defending Max Mosley but if you’re going to attack him at least have the decency to find some relevant quote or action from his adult life to attack him about, not something stupid he said over 50 years ago when he was a kid.

        1. Max Mosley occasional goes on question time and and is often less right wing then the conservative they have on so I wouldn’t call him a fascist.
          And the sex thing, he had consensual sex with prostitutes whilst married as have many public figures so do you have a problem with the BBC talking to all of them.

    14. The problem is that Mosley is still smarter than everyone else in formula one, and he has an axe to grind. I think he delights in settling scores with his old enemies. It’s easy to write him off as some nasty old man, but (i think) his comments make a lot of sense.

      1. This. As a Jew and a passionate supporter of free technical regulations and pure motorsport, I have no love lost for Mosley. But declaring him wrong about
        everything because he’s terribly wrong about a lot of other things is incorrect and counterproductive.

        In this case, I think it speaks volumes about the severity of the situation – if you have a guy renowned for callousness and a money-talks attitude, and he’s opposing something on moral grounds…

        Oh, and to The edge – you ought to hire a copy editor. I think you’ll find that the dressed-up orgy girls did not themselves murder six million Jews in WWII… ;)

    15. If they agree to review the poss of Bahrain in Dec, as seems likely, how late can they feasibly leave a desicion with regarding to the championship points? An extra race may suit one, but hinder another!

    16. Great editiorial by Chris Balfe over at Pitpass.

      “…one has to ask what sort of business can be so poorly managed that nobody appears to know what is happening or when. … This is rapidly turning into a farce of epic proportions, a cock up that will do irreparable damage to the sport and those associated with it. Someone needs to get a grip.”

      Time for Todt to fall on his sword.

    17. So what language will Gracia speak??

      1. I guess he speaks Spanish? Maybe a bit Italian? Guess his assistant did the translator job in Bahrain.

    18. Max mosley must stop influencing F1 DECISIONS FROM OUTSIDE.
      He should leave Todt and the teams to decide..why is the BBC LOOKING FOR HIS VIEWS ALL THE TIME.?are they trying to influence F1 like they tried with football world cup with disastrous results?.
      sometimes BBC sucks..and by the way their formula one website is not loading up since yesterday morning.does anyone know why?

    19. Come back Mr. Max Mosley, all is forgiven. At least you are still up with the rules!!

      1. Certainly not. His first period in office was OK, after that he sould have got out.

        I might disaprove a lot of things about how Todt runs the FIA, but he is very defenitely an improvement over Mosley. I would not even start to imagine how Max would have handled this, but I do hardly expect it would have been a lot more satisfactory.

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