Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, Valencia, 2011

Hamilton: the championship is “finished”

F1 Fanatic round-up

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In the round up: Lewis Hamilton says the world championship is “finished”.


Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Sebastian Vettel’s rivals concede defeat in title race (BBC F1)

“Despite there being 12 races left in the calendar, Lewis Hamilton said: ‘It’s finished really. In the sense of the title it’s almost over already.’

“??The championship is not in our calculations,’ added Fernando Alonso. ‘If anyone thinks we can win the championship being eight-tenths of a second behind [Red Bull] they don’t understand Formula 1.'”

Pirelli unsure more aggressive tyre choice would have helped show in Valencia (Autosport)

“Pirelli believes that even a more aggressive choice of tyres for the European Grand Prix may not have been enough to help make the Valencia race a thriller.”

Nick – ??new regulations can have a positive impact?? (Lotus Renault GP)

“We pushed hard throughout the weekend, but it?s just not been possible to get the pace out of the car that we wanted. We will need to take a step forward for Silverstone. Silverstone is a track with a lot of high speed corners, and our car performs well on these types of corners. We will also see how the new regulations affect our car, but I think it will have a positive impact for the team.??

European Grand Prix from the pit lane (BBC F1)

??BBC F1 reporter Ted Kravitz reports from the back of the paddock at the European Grand Prix in Valencia.??

Virgin Racing (via Twitter)

??Apparently Jerome was unable to use his drinks bottle today, and lost three kilos during the race!??

Lewis Hamilton: I?d take a pay cut just to win (The Express)

“Lewis Hamilton would drive for less money if it got him into a winning car ?ǣ and after another Red Bull stampede into pole position for today?s European Grand Prix, perhaps he should be prepared for a drop in future earnings.”

??Tin can? engines row hits F1 races (The Express)

“All but two of the world?s circuits, China and Korea, have told F1?s governing body that if the new engines are introduced they will not show F1 and will instead switch to IndyCar races. The rebel circuits, represented by Australian Grand Prix boss Ron Walker, issued their ultimatum on Wednesday.”

Motor-racing teams consider taking a stake in Formula One (The Independent)

“Formula One’s motor-racing teams are considering whether to join forces to take a stake in the private-equity-owned Grand Prix business.”

Jacques Villeneuve takes out Max Papis & Brian Scott (YouTube)

Taking a closer look at economic benefits claimed for Austin’s Formula One project (The Statesman)

??Similar scepticism has greeted a recent study, released last week by organizers of the proposed Formula One race in Austin, that asserts the four-day event will generate nearly $300 million in economic benefit to the metropolitan area next June. That’s based on the spending of an estimated 94,700 out-of-state fans, or about 20,000 more non-Texans than flocked to Dallas five months ago for the Super Bowl, according to the report, released Monday.??

Follow F1 news as it breaks using the F1 Fanatic live Twitter app.

Comment of the day

What did you think of the European Grand Prix? Redxibi gave it four out of ten, saying:

Only Button?s overtaking manoeuvre on Rosberg and Heidfield?s pass on turn three were worth watching. Maybe you can include Alonso just avoiding the wall after lapping Trulli as another reason to watch the Grand Prix, but in reality, it was really boring. At times I found myself trying not to sleep despite getting more than nine hours of sleep the night before. There were some good midfield battles, but no battles where it really matters, upfront.

The biggest problem this circuit has is that it is completely flat and since there are no steep uphills, cars cannot slip stream well like what happens in Turkey, Spa, Brazil and Malaysia (turn four). Just like at Abu Dhabi, there are also too many chicanes. Joining turn 2 to turn 5 and increasing the run off area into turn six by artificially increasing the land available can really increase the circuit?s potential. It?s not an expensive solution either.

Anyway, when does the circuit?s contract run out?

Read more: Rate the race: 2011 European Grand Prix

From the forum

2011 European Grand Prix Awards

Site updates

Apologies for the long period of downtime yesterday. This was due to a power failures which took out several servers, including those which host the site.

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Dan N and gDog!

On this day in F1

And happy birthday to Nico Rosberg, who is 26 today!

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  • 151 comments on “Hamilton: the championship is “finished””

    1. Makes you wonder when you see Hamilton tweeting “ignore what u read in the papers today (..) I WILL NEVER GIVE UP!!!!”…

      1. Clearly someone started watching F1 after Australia 2009

    2. Lewis sent a tweet this morning stating “To all our supporters, ignore what u read in the papers today. My team will never give up & I WILL NEVER GIVE UP!!!!” so i’m just not convinced yet he’s given up.

      Saying that it’s mathematically bloody difficult for either of the 2nd place drivers in the championship to win now.

      1. Webber, Alonso, Hamilton and Button could all form a team and still struggle to beat Vettel the way this season is going!
        2010 was the best championship fight in a long time. Now 2011 is the most boring in a long time!

        1. is it?

          Well for first it is for sure, but you can’t have thrilling championships every year, and there is still a titanic struggle for second.

        2. Team with Webber? No! Hell No.

          Webber is being exposed this season. Seems that he’s the only one who could be challenging Vettel once they both drive the RB/ but he’s not. It’s more like Schumi and Barichelo than Alonso and Hamilton, actually I convinced myself of Lewis skills when in his rookie year he infuriated a two times world champion who ended up making ridiculous excuses.

          Webber is being schooled by the very same boy who he once said, I guess it was Fuji in 2008, “that’s what happens when they give an F1 car little boys”. Vettel was driving an STR then when he hit Webber in rainy Japanese GP. These days, we can’t argue that Vettel’s 2011 record has a lot to do with a much superior car but comparable to his team mate he either very good or Webber is really bad.

          1. Do you remember last year when Horner said they were building the team (i.e. car) around Vettel for next year. That Vettel was the future of Red Bull and not Webber. Well, this is the result of that.

            1. But even in 2010, Webber only beat Vettel in 6 races all year (the 4 he won, Turkey and Belgium). This years results are giving a truer indication of the gap between the two drivers.

            2. Webber wasn’t as far behind as he is this year though. And you could argue that he was driving injured at the end of the season and that skewed the statistics.

            3. Webber also lost to Vettel in 2009. Come on, 3 consecutive years of being beaten by varying margins by Vettel cannot come down to these excuses.

            4. I think Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton would be doing a better job than Webber driving that RB7 “designed for Vettel”…

              Do you remember when Horner said when asked about Lewis joining Red Bull? He said:

              “It’s difficult to see how you could have two drivers of Lewis and Sebastian’s calibre under one roof. There tends to be fireworks, as we saw with Fernando and Lewis.”

              He than said that Seb and Webber have a huge age gap and that’s why there’s no “fireworks” (what isn’t true). For me Horner acknowledged that Webber is from a lower “calibre” and Red Bull is happy with that…

            5. Just because we know who will win doesn’t mean the races are less entertaining.

            6. DavidA: you mean the 2009 when he drove half the season with a metal pin in his leg?

              Look I’m not saying Webber is a better driver than Vettel. I don’t think he is. What I am saying is that the results between the two of them would be closer to 2010 or latter half of 2009 levels if they didn’t build the car around Vettel – as Horner said they were doing!

            7. But in early 2010, remember that the results were skewed in Webber’s favour because of Vettel’s lack of reliability. With equal reliability and no preference, the gap wouldn’t be as wide as it is now, but still would be wider than you’d think.

            8. Maybe. Webber has had some awful reliability this year, particularly with KERS.

          2. I don’t remember Alonso making excuses (at least that weren’t justified).
            And I think it’s obvious Webber is given more inferior equipment that’s why he underperforms. He was on the way to win the championship last year until the team decided to put Vettel’s broken parts in his car. Until then he was beating Seb fair and square – it’s hard to believe that he suddenly lost his driving aptitudes. Webber was to RB what Alonso was to McLaren in 2007 – an inconvenient team-mate to their future star. I think he tacitly accepted the No 2 status just to remain in a competitive car.

            1. He was only on the way to the title last year because Webber had 100% reliability and Vettel lost wins in Australia, Bahrain and Korea. When his car doesn’t fail, Vettel is just the faster driver more often than not. Just remember who scored more points in 2008 (when one of them was in a Toro Rosso), and in 2009.

            2. Alonso was pointing fingers to McLaren team saying they were favoring Hamilton! Unless you believe McLaren did it, then it’s not a ridiculous excuse.

              How could a team spend tons of money to hire a double World Champion and then favor the rookie over him? A feasible conspiracy theory could be: “They just wanted the money from Spanish sponsors”… and the other side would ask “so they’re were not expecting their effort on crippling Alonso to back fire sponsors wise?”

            3. Dont forget this year Webber’s car had kers problem and Vettel didnt. And also since last year Redbullracing always support more to vettel than webber!!

            4. JCost – asking to be treated equally as your team-mate is not the same thing as looking for excuses for poor performance (which wasn’t the case). There are still questions about tyre pressure that misteriously falling during qualifying and “we were racing Fernando” strategies…that some tend to ignore.
              Nobody at Mclaren expected Lewis to perform so well. Think about it – to have the first rookie British World Champion in a British team would have been a marketing hit. It would have attracted so many sponsors that they could easily afford losing Alonso and Santander’s money.

          3. The simplest explanation is the switch to Pirelli. Mark and Seb have a reasonably similar style, so much so that if one struggles to find a setup they just use what the other has dialled in – so I don’t buy into the idea that the car was built around Seb. Mark is just having a hard time getting the optimal use out of the tyre; he slides around just that little more, and therefore is (at his best) around a tenth or two slower, and at his worst nearly a second slower. The double whammy is the added graining of the rears from the extra strain he puts on them, so he needs to stop far earlier than Seb every time.

            I’m a huge Webber fan, but I conceded pretty much after the third round that Vettel would be unbeatable. I almost think walking away from Red Bull would be beneficial to his mental state; a drive at another (frontrunning) team could be a good change.

        3. Vettel has clearly given a step forward. The card difference may be even smaller this year. He is the best in one lap and is not making mistakes, except for montreal. And the other are doing so many silly ones that make it easier for him.

    3. Great to see the site is back on now Keith!

      One nice add on to the round up is Hamilton waking up this morning and remembering what he said yesterday to the papers about the championship being over. @LewisHamilton per tweet:

      To all our supporters, ignore what u read in the papers today. My team will never give up & I WILL NEVER GIVE UP!!!!

      I don’t have to tell you, the newspaper people and media in general were not impressed.
      Me neither, I think he just said the truth yesterday but somehow was reminded that was not good PR.

      1. Well he gave them the quote, can’t blame them for running it.

        1. Yes, that is why I am not impressed with Hamilton here, the media ar rightfully feeling badly done by here.

          He could have just called the same people and told them he slept over it and now feels a lot brighter and wanted to change the storyline in a follow up.

      2. Can’t blame a guy for being a little bit defeatist after such a depressing afternoon, and it not like the fans don’t realize the championship is Vettel’s except for extremely rotten luck, which I for one do not wish on Vettel or Red Bull (or anyone else).

        1. Exactly what i wrote immediately after reading the original comments from Hamilton http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/06/26/hamilton-step/comment-page-1/#comment-731227

      3. Saying you think the championship is over and giving up, are two different things.

        1. Not if you aren’t really trying hard to make them mean different things…

          Every one on here realities how far Vettel is ahead, obviously Lewis would as well. It’s fairly obvious what happened, (for a change) Hamilton ran his mouth after a race he didn’t like the results of, and now he once again has to reverse back on himself.

          1. Oh come on Mike, give him a break! No different to what Alonso said, only a bit more direct.

      4. I’d usually have a lot of sympathy for drivers who’s comments are distorted in the press, but tbh here they’re just printing what he said. He can have no complaints.

        1. It’s not quite as simple as that. He was quoted, but probably mis-interpreted a bit. So he’s setting it straight. Can we all move on now?

          1. By the way, I didn’t mean that last sentence to be against you!

      5. OK, I was going to stay out of this one, but I’m bored.

        It’s finished really. In the sense of the title it’s almost over.

        ‘It’s finished really’ i.e. practically, but not definitely. Yes, “really” can and often does mean “definitely”. But why then say ‘Almost over’? I think that gives a clue as to what he meant.

        In light of this,

        My team…and I will never give up.

        is suddenly not so contradictory at all. Simple mistake, we all move on.

        And anyway, as Bas says, can’t blame him for being unhappy at the situation and then regrouping the next day. Wow, what a disgrace that he did that :roll:

    4. I guess theres no hope for Webber seeing as hes in the same car as Vettel :-(

      1. Webber has been this year’s biggest letdown. He was the only hope we had for an interesting WDC battle this year.

        1. The car was built for Vettel this year, he never had a shot.

          1. Whether the car was built for Vettel or not,Vettel has had a good car for every race, Webber has had electro/mechanical problems for so many races the results makes him look worse than he is. That said he was not on his usual pace in this race.

    5. LOL, nice to see all the first 3 posts commented on Lewis backtracking today! So good PR after all then :-(

      And a happy birthday to Nico Rosberg, I hope he can find something positive to look forward to. And the same to Dan N and to gDog, happy birthday.

    6. Teacup meet storm. Yesterday he was being honest and today after a sleep he is up for the challenge however pointless it is.

      RBR will be 1-2 in Silverstone and Lewis will drive the wheels of his car. Lets hope that we can have some mixed conditions to help Lewis and JB.

      WDC is over and that is very annoying.

      1. Yes but in the 90’s it was over for next year and the year after and the year after that but It was still exciting watching to see who could be the best of the rest. Of course in those days the engineers were allowed to improve the engines as well as the wings.

        1. Agreed HoHum! I am happy for Vettel and RedBull, but the real excitement in this championship now lies in other battles.

          How will the order after Vettel be come seasons end? I see some great battles in the future with Button, Webber, Hamilton, Alonso and Massa all fighting till the end.

          Will Ferrari catch McLaren?

          Who will win in Mercedes vs. Renault? 8 races in and only 3 points separate the two teams!

    7. This just highlights the contrast between Seb and Lewis.

      Seb a positive young man.

      Lewis showing his ugly side over and over.

      1. Easy to positive when you can win without needing to try too hard – swap their positions and we might see a change in both of them…

        1. Yeah I remember vettel last year with all the mechanical failures. He was still positive and polite, looking for the solutions.

          1. The reason because Vettel was calm last year,coz he knows he has Helmut Marko to support him and so the rest of the Redbull Team!! In other hand Mark Webber didnt get the same support from Redbull racing.

      2. This is a bit exaggerating, Lewis just stated the obvious. I remember how “positive” Vettel was on the podium in Hungary last season.

        1. And Alonso said pretty much the same thing as Hamilton, but funnily enough nobody is being sanctimomious about him on here.

          1. This summer we have a Hamilton-bashing trend.

            1. this summer we have hamilton continually making foolish comments and apologising.

            2. Is that better than Alonso saying the same thing and then not apologising?

              Only on the internet is changing your mind or apologising for something said in the heat of the moment a bad thing.

            3. Rob, the difference is that Alonso has stuck to what he has said. People are tuning Lewis because he is backtracking, regardless of what he said in his original statement.

              I also think lewis has only himself to blame for being bashed. He feeds the media with the spoilt brat attitude he has.

          2. The article is yet again about a Lewis dummy spit. That is why folks are commenting about him.

      3. So what about Alonso saying the same? He even said that those who believe that they can win world championship running 0,8 sec 0ff RB7’s pace don’t know F1!

        I think both Alonso and Hamilton were being realistic. Looking back to the last 8 races, ceteris paribus, there’s no chance to steal the title unless a huge amount fortune or a Nobel Prize winning solution comes out of McLaren factory they can consistently beat RB

        1. Alonso didnt backtrack.

          1. As I said, being able to rethink something and then admitting you were wrong is a negative character trait only on the internet.

            How long before ‘backtracking’ is made a criminal offence, as it seems to be so evil?

            If that is the best the Hamilton-bashers can do then I doubt he will be losing any sleep over it.

          2. Alonso didnt backtrack

            That’s because Alonso doesn’t apologize. This makes him seem more self assured than Hamilton, he’s essentially the unrepentant Dictator of the F1 world.

            I’m not knocking him for it, he and Hamilton have a different approach.

        2. 100% realistic,he is doing better than button was doing in the brawn by this time in the season,short of him suddenly dnf’ing the next 5 races then coming back average,its his really but we still have many races to enjoy lets enjoy and see wot plays out,look at last year who would have thunk it at this point last year vettel would do it?

    8. I don’t know what to make of that Express article – maybe Walker is under pressure from the government to come up with a way for them to stop hosting F1 for all the reasons that get brought up every year, and the ‘noise’ excuse is the best he can come up with.

      On the other hand I don’t believe for a second that Monaco and the other European circuits will turn down F1. The journalist has decided that because the Australian circuit boss has said it then everyone else will, despite the almost complete impossibility of Indycar extending its calendar to race over the entire globe! Why would the bosses of Indycar want to do that?!? If they want to overhaul NASCAR in terms of ratings and influence in the US they aren’t going to do it by racing in Monaco – if F1 fans don’t like the lack of overtaking there then how are Indycar fans going to react?

      Once again The Express shows it is trying to overhaul the Mail in how many ‘facts’ it can pull out of thin air.

      1. Honestly Walker is about as close to being Bernies best buddy as you can get. I think this is about Bernie having got the circuit operators to beat his drum.

        1. You may well be right there. Still doesn’t excuse the absolutely atrocious ‘journalism’ involved in the article!

          1. That was exactly my thought when I read it.

        2. Ecclestone has it all over Walker. The Aus GP loses a stack of money each year, and is under constant pressure to install lights for a European audience, which they can’t afford. Maybe Ron feels, he needs some goodwill from Ecclestone.

          The locals in Melbourne complain about the noise every year. So, quieter engines would actually be better for them! That Ron is heading the circuit owners group against the engines, just shows you how desperate they are to get in good with Bernie.

          1. The locals in Melbourne complain about the noise every year. So, quieter engines would actually be better for them!

            Haha! Good point, and very ironic.

      2. Eh, there’s three years until the new engines come into play. Even if the circuits are deadly serious about this, Bernie will talk them around. We’ll likely never hear about it again.

        1. I agree, that article is so rediculous I’m lost for words.

          1. It is not impossible that in 3 or 4 years a lot of circuits could decide to change Formula, remember the main difference between F1 and Indycar is that Indycar is a one design series, without the development costs a lot of teams and drivers could acquire competitive cars and put on a GP for a lot less than Bernie charges. F1s unique feature is the development race between the teams, that is why there is a Constructors Championship and why loyal fans cheer whichever driver drives their favourite car, be it Ferrari, McLaren, Renault etc. Without this aspect of technical development it wont matter if its indycar,Gp2 or any other series.

      3. I don’t understand the Indycar threat. Isn’t Indy switching to turbo V6 as well in 2012?

        1. Great point Moolander, they are indeed switching to a turbo V6 next year. They are also introducing new bodykits that will allow a mini development race of their own.

          In several ways I feel the raft of changes they are bringing in next year will serve as a gauge to see how the F1 changes will go 2 years further down the line.

          All in all I don’t believe for a second that Monaco would give up F1 for Indy. But the 2 different formulas adopting similar rules on engines and bodywork in the near future I think will only be good for racing and for the fans.

    9. Vodafone did another nice viral with Jenson and Lewis. It has fasion in it (no, certainly NOT the circus outfit overalls, real ladies fashion)

      1. Nice. Button is a funny guy.

        1. Indeed he is. The more I learn about Button, the more I like him. I am thrilled that he won in Canada and most pleased that he is 2nd in the championship currently.

    10. Yet another “Hamilton says” thread. Not bad for someone who’s supposed to be keeping a bit quieter these days. But for once, he’s probably right.

      1. Why should he be quiet?

        1. He shouldn’t. I love it when he’s not. :)

        2. Because he mostly has emotional outbursts that he later retracts.

          Contrast him with a guy like Webber. Sure, Webber has his occasional outburst, but how often does he back away from controversial statements?

          I’d prefer have a quiet Lewis Hamilton, rather than one that is constantly taking back any mildly controversial statement that he makes.

          1. I think he takes his statements back only because VODAFONE McLaren-Mercedes forces him to do so. Guess RedBull don’t give a damn about what their drivers talk (and so they should).

            1. nah, webber just has balls.

            2. nah, webber just has balls.

              COTD!!! Atleast in my book!

    11. Well, Lewis can still fight for the runner-up spot, just for the sake of the statistics.

    12. that empty (and ridiculous) threat of indycars replacing f1 is about a week late. with vw proving to be full of crap, their conditional 4-bangers were already dropped like a hot rock.

        1. Fine, let him take his ball home. The calendar needs pruning a bit anyway.

          1. He apparently has the support of 16 other F1 race track promoters.

            1. I would be very worried if I had funded the Buddh Circuit only to have them start running their mouth off about not wanting F1 before the track has even been inspected. Maybe they have the support of the others, but it is strange the the paper only quotes one, and it is the only one that could realistically attract Indycar (seeing as they race in Australia once a season already).

              Indycar in Hungary? I just don’t see it happening.

      1. It doesn’t have to be the US indycar circuit, just making the indycar rules the rules for each countries GP. Dallara and Honda would be happy to supply the cars to local teams.

        1. I’m afraid I don’t quite understand – are you saying that the circuits are going to set up their own series? Or that F1 is going to be forced to change its rules if it wants to race somewhere?

    13. Apologies for the long period of downtime yesterday. This was due to a power failures which took out several servers, including those which host the site.

      i thought it was an aftershock from the worst gp i can remember!

      1. You must have a short memory, or not have been watching F1 for very long.

    14. Agree with the COTD. I’d also make the exit off the swing bridge more open and end with a simple right-hander, instead of three 90° turns. With just three adjustments the circuit would be improve immeasurably.

      So, fat chance.

      1. Maybe just opening the swing bridge at certain times during the race would make it more interesting?

        1. LOL. Gives aero dynamics a completely different purpose

        2. LOL Webber would win in a canter.

            1. Would be a really exiting improvement to the track!

        3. Hahaha. For anyone who’s played Diddy Kong, they should have a bell the leading driver can ring on his way past to temporarily send the bridge up :D

    15. And all of them wouldn’t complain one bit if it was them in Vettels position. Plus that there is a famous saying: It isn’t over till it’s over.

      1. it’s over. the fat lady hasn’t sung yet, but she’s all warmed up.

    16. An interesting comment from Adrian Newey yesterday on the BBC F1 Forum (paraphrasing here):

      Audi were considering entering Formula 1 in 2013 if 4-cylinder Turbos were introduced, and we all want to see somebody like Audi in Formula 1. When they decided “sorry, but we’re not interested anymore” there was no great need to go with that engine setup so the teams agreed on a V-6 Turbo instead.

      1. It would have been interesting to find out if Audi could have dominated Formula 1 like they do Le Mans, assuming they were going to also introduce their own team, along with becoming an engine supplier.

        1. first, they would be competing against more than 1 rival, which is very not their style. second, there’s no way they would set up shop and beat ferrari, mclaren, newey AND brawn at their own game.

      2. Wow! This is so disappointing.

    17. This weekend I think I got a glimpse into the problem of why F1 goes to places like Valencia.

      I read quite a few tweets and reports from people like Adam Cooper, saying how great Valencia is, how much he was looking forward to the “rock” concert, etc. That’s great for all the lucky people that get to go there and be part of the circus. Meanwhile the vast majority, the viewers, are stuck watching a race on a rubbish circuit.

      When the actual circuit seems to be the lowest priority, it’s no wonder we have races like Valencia on the calendar.

    18. Would you think people will lose interest on the remaining GPs if the championships are already done for Vettel? FIA will think of something to clamp the Red Bulls down for others to catch-up and have the championship more exciting – however the bulls are still up there.

      1. I think there is enough in the Alonso/Hamilton/Webber (and maybe Button and Massa) battle to keep my interest for the rest of the season.

    19. I wonder if Bernie will consider reverting to the old points system after this season.

    20. It’s strange that the circuits should take that approach to the new engines. Especially since the battles at Dijon in 1979, the racing that all fans want to see return to the sport, took place during the golden age of turbos – and sounded drastically different to the sound today.

    21. The biggest problem with valecia is htat it’s not a street track nor a normal circuit. So it’s kind of an hibrid which takes the worst bits out of both kinds of racetrack. Very slow chicanes, plenty of corners, big run off areas.

      1. That’s not the problem. The problem is the traction zones: areas around the circuit where a driver must brake for a corner to at least half his current speed, and then accelerate again to his original speed. There are eight such areas around the Valencia circuit – compared to four in Canada, and three at Spa and Monza; in fact, I think you’ll find that all of the unpopular circuits have a higher number of traction zones than the popular ones. It’s the theme of a guest article I wrote for the site; hopefully Keith will upload the full version once the usual run of race-themed articles is over.

        1. I look forward to your analysis.

    22. I think its fairly degrading for F1, Alonso,Hamilton etc that potentially Vettel will be a double World Champion.

      1. Why? Alonso was a double World Champion without degrading anyone. Michael Schumacher was World Champion seven times over without it bothering anybody. So why is it such an insult to the sport and everyone in it if Vettel takes his second championship?

        1. It seems like there is an implication that Vettel is so dominant because the car is that much faster than all the others – like there was with Mansell in ’92 and to some degree Schumacher at Ferrari – and that Liuzzi could be winning the championship if he was in Vettel’s car.

          I am more impressed than I was when Schumacher was at Ferrari because Vettel isn’t racing with a ‘tail-gunner’ being used to cover off everyone else’s strategy and act as a buffer between him and everyone else. He has barely made a mistake this season and if it was purely the car Webber would be easily in second every race and the two of them would be leaving the Ferraris and McLarens in their dust.

      2. Yeah it is degrading for lewis etc. A kid driving for a drinks company wrapping up the title less than half way through the season.

      3. No way. Vettel is a class act, just cast your mind back to Monza 2008 to understand why he’s a great driver. Yes his overtaking is sometimes questionable, but it’s not exactly shoddy.

        Webber’s no slouch and he’s making him look very average this season.

        Give Vettel credit – he is a great driver.

        1. Yes I have to begrudgingly agree, as for overtaking, he doesn’t get much opportunity to practice.

    23. congratulations to vettel for retaining the title!!!!!!!

    24. I can’t remember a single year in F1 when all of the front running 3 or 4 cars were exactly equal with one another. Why we should be complaining about Vettel’s dominance is beyond me. No doubt Adrian Newey is still at Red Bull because of Vettel’s driving skill and not in spite of it.

      McLaren, in the meantime, seems to have become a bit of a ghost town with regard to its abilities to attract the right people. I dare say that they’d be just as pleased to have Vettel driving for them as Red Bull might be to have Hamilton driving for them. Never going to happen though.

      1. 2007 and 2008 were pretty close.

        I think the fact that there are only two cars that are fast is why there is more of a problem. Remember Jenson’s championship in 2009? Same thing.

        Listen, Vettel is a fantastic driver there is no doubt, but if Alonso or Hamilton were in Webber’s seat would he really be winning these championships?

        1. Listen, Vettel is a fantastic driver there is no doubt, but if Alonso or Hamilton were in Webber’s seat would he really be winning these championships?

          Maybe – Maybe not. The point being that he is doing what’s necessary under the current circumstances. And who’s to say that he wouldn’t be getting the McLaren or Ferrari on to the podium a bit more often than its current drivers are?

          1. Fair point. It would be nice to have a bit more competition though. Both 2010 and this season the Red Bull has been by far the fastest car, before that the Brawn.

            We’ll see at Silverstone what the difference is then. Again, it seems similar to the Brawn episode whereby the DDD advantage was nullified by about the same time in the season… by which time it was too late!

        2. Oh, come on guys, “ifs” and “buts” again… If Alonso was in Massa’s seat/Kovalainen seat would Hamilton win the championship in 2008? If Raikkonen was in Fisichella’s seat would Alonso win his 2 titles? If any other driver was in Barrichelo’s seat would Button win in 2009? and the list can go further. It seems some people would resort to the most ridiculous arguments in order to minimize Vettel’s achievements.

        3. No way he would. Look what happened in Canada. Look what happened in Istanbul last year.

    25. The engine thing is stupid. The engines like the honda in the mp4/4 sounds excellent, arguably many times nicer than the screeching units we have now.

      Also I don’t think indycar could, or would even better interested in going to an extra 17 circuits, particulary given the amount of shockers like Valencia there are. Would the likes of Singapore have spent so much to hold an indycar race? I don’t think so.

      Empty threats, an ice rather hope they’re ignored.

    26. Well, Alonso has hit it on the head.

    27. Villeneuve’s driving was poor, but Papis ramming him from behind after the race (ahem) was just disgraceful.

      1. Actually I found JV’s driving to be stellar on Saturday…he was thrilling to watch and he was looking to be the man to beat.

        That said, he made an error when upon one of the restarts, and he in second place at the time, moved out of his lane before the start/finish line to get behind the leader, about 100 feet before he should have, and got a drive through penalty for that which put him back in the pack.

        When the incident occurred as shown on this thread he had worked his way back up to 5th or so, and for sure made an error, or to be kinder, a Gilles-like move onto the grass, and lost it. I can understand Papis’s frustration, given that he was a potential winner, although had this incident not happened Papis nor practically anyone else had anything to bring vs. JV. He was the man and by far the most exciting to watch.

        Just makes me wish he had a full time ride so he could gel with a team and get any cobwebs out and also be able to answer to incidents like Saturday’s with other better showings. For him to sit in that car with so little practice and dominate like he did was incredible.

        Hopefully he’ll dominate just as well in Montreal, and take the win incident free.

        1. I have to admit, I am basing my analysis solely on the youtube clip provided, nice to har he had a good race overall.

          In the clip however, it almost seemed he forgot that the track narrowed at the pit exit and that seemed like a rookie error to me.

          Likewise, hope he does well at home.

    28. Webber is the clear no 2 and he knows and accepts this. Redbull is clearly the best car on the grid, they know they will win the title. I dont believe that the teamates have 100% equal machinery. Why would they want the drivers taking each other out like turkey and risk losing the title. Vettel is faster, but not as much as this in my opinion

      1. Webber’s KERS does tend to overheat quite a bit! But I think its more down to the way the drivers get the tyres to work rather than anything more sinister :)

    29. While I agree with the COTD that elevation changes are usually required to make great tracks, why is it that Canada constantly delivers fantastic races in the dry with a circuit that is flat as a pancake?

    30. Do you guys believe that teams aren’t capable of doing sinister things? Its simple really, redbull know they have the best car, they also know vettel is the best prospect for winning the title. So webber conveniently as a few problems which puts him out of the challenge with vettel. Notice how webber Is closer to vettel now the title is almost over??

      1. Therefore the sinister things happened to Seb in 2010, with Mark’s 100% reliability and Seb’s problems. Oh wait, Vettel still beat “not bad” Webber! :)

        1. I think silverstone settles your argument!

          1. Not really. Vettel has had the upper hand in all three seasons at Red Bull and outscored Webber when in a Toro Rosso. It’s pretty clear who is the better driver when one can actually use their fastest but fragile car to win a title when the other has a 100% reliable fastest car and still lose the title and also finish behind Alonso.

            1. I’ve never said webber was faster, but this year webber as been nowhere. Webber was probably the only guy out there who could have beat vettel over the season, him being out the way would stop redbull having to use team orders which they would be blasted for

            2. Webber was probably the only guy out there who could have beat vettel over the season

              That’s what I disagree with. I do not believe Webber is capable of beating Vettel over the course of a season. I don;t think anything “sinister” is actively going on, and even if there was, it wouldn’t be the difference between Webber winning and losing.

            3. Maybe not but he could be a big enough hindrance to damage vettels championship hopes do you agree?

            4. Webber could occasionally take points off Vettel, which may help drivers of Seb’s caliber like Lewis and Fernando, yes.

    31. It’s Vettals to lose,but lose it he can a couple of DNF’s and things can turn around highly unlikely but i do hope

      1. A couple of DNFs leaves the gap at a minimum of 27 points :P

      2. A couple of DNFs leaves the gap at a minimum of 27 points :P

    32. Webber has said himself that he can’t use the tyres as well as Vettel is. Nothing sinister in that.

    33. @Damon

      Team orders are legal this season, so no point getting all rowdy about those any more.

      1. Listen if you use team orders your reputation drops bigtime being legal or not

    34. I really do think there’s a good chance we will see Hamilton in a redbull soon

      1. Even though, according to your previous posts, Red Bull clearly favours Vettel? Why would they switch allegiance to Hamilton, and why would he go to a team that so clearly favours one driver over another?

    35. Lewis will demand equal status, webber is just happy to be in a top team

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