Horner sees “frustration” in Hamilton’s driving

F1 Fanatic round-up

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In the round-up: Horner “can sense a degree of frustration” in Hamilton.

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Christian Horner: There is ‘frustration’ to Lewis Hamilton’s driving (The Guardian)

“It’s been a poor spell for Lewis and you can sense a degree of frustration in his driving. He’s on first-name terms with most of the stewards this year, he’s still a great driver it’s just, for whatever reason, not happening for him.”

Lotus F1 conflict to be resolved imminently (James Allen)

“The word this weekend in Monza is that a deal has been struck between the Malaysian owned Team Lotus and Group Lotus, which is a sponsor of the Renault GP team, to end the naming conflict. Tony Fernandes is understood to be on the point of applying to the FIA and FOM to change the name of his team to Caterham F1 Team.”

Lotus heads are on the block – Fernandes (Reuters)

“You can’t have a name and not monetise it. So we will have to wait and see … I don’t think this is healthy for anyone, having Lotus Renault and Team Lotus. I’ve always had the door open and there could be a win-win for everybody.”

Tony Fernandes on Twitter

“Sorry for the typos. Hahaha. Not sure if I’m just excited. Good chat on next year car. Next year we will have KERS. Good good progress on next years car.”

Via the F1 Fanatic live Twitter app

Montezemolo not against pay TV (Autosport)

“For me it is crucial to have more people in the circuit and this is why we have to promote, we have to look very carefully at the price, look very carefully at the logistics. But I think a mix between pay TV and live TV will be the future – but a mix.”

Safety is everything now but 50 years ago Monza had its darkest day (Daily Mail)

Dan Gurney: “In those days we didn’t stop the race for those sorts of things. It wasn’t until after the Grand Prix that we found out it was worse than it actually looked and that Von Trips’ car had ended up going into the wire fence that the spectators were hanging on to, which, of course, was a tragedy.

Italian GP – Conference 3 (FIA)

Sebastian Vettel: “Our approach might be racy but the race is obviously most of the time without DRS but with DRS, which we did consider, it should be fine. As Jenson touched on, it will still be difficult to use both of the zones, especially the second one down to Ascari.”

Darren Heath on Twitter

“Mercedes making big push for’12. Said to be recruiting [Chris] Dyer, [Aldo] Costa & possibly [Geoff] Willis in desperate attempt to justify [Michael] Schumacher drive.”

Via the F1 Fanatic live Twitter app

Jenson Button to sign McLaren deal for life (and 80m) (Daily Mirror)

McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh wants to commit Button, who won in Canada and Hungary, to a contract that will take him beyond racing retirement.”

Follow F1 news as it breaks using the F1 Fanatic live Twitter app.

Comment of the day

F1 track designer Drew MacDonald from Populous, who I interviewed last year, has this to say about the new race track development in Iran:

This is a funny project. We were asked to look at it, however, our communications and legal team advised us that trade with Iran is against the law under a UN Trade Embargo not only would it be illegal for a UK company to design a track but any UN nation racing there.

In my head it’s irresponsible to charge someone to design a track there!
Drew MacDonald

From the forum

Squaregoldfish thinks Monza may have solved the F1 track run-off problem.

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to sweetooth!

On this day in F1

Mercedes scored their most recent win as an F1 constructor 56 years ago today.

Juan Manuel Fangio and Piero Taruffi came home first and second ahead of the Ferrari of Eugenio Castelotti.

It was Mercedes’ final appearance in F1 as a fully-fledged car builder until their return at the beginning of 2010.

Author information

Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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75 comments on “Horner sees “frustration” in Hamilton’s driving”

  1. “The word this weekend in Monza is that a deal has been struck between the Malaysian owned Team Lotus and Group Lotus, which is a sponsor of the Renault GP team, to end the naming conflict. Tony Fernandes is understood to be on the point of applying to the FIA and FOM to change the name of his team to Caterham F1 Team.”

    I think I speak for everyone here when I say it’s about bloody time!

    1. I’d be very surprised if half the people agreed with you on this one… Either that or you’re implying I’m not human…… Fair enough.

      Does this mean you’ll stop calling the team team Fernandez?

      1. Yes, I’ll stop calling them Fernandes. Like I said, I call them that because I do not recognise their claim of being Team Lotus, just as I don’t recognise Group Lotus’ claim, and thus call them Renault.

        Although if Lotus Renault GP is to become just Lotus, I might have to refer to them as Lotus because I won’t have anything else to call them by. But it will be Lotus Cars, not Team Lotus.

        1. You could call them team Genii, or team Eric, or team Boullier, or…

        2. Well guess what’s going to happen if this is true? team lotus will be caterham and renault will become the official only and historical team lotus so how is this what you want when you have just posted this heap of …. saying no one should claim it.

          1. They won’t be the historical team Lotus. That team is history.

            It is a new Lotus and, judging by the road cars Group Lotus have planned, one that doesn’t even have a spiritual connection to the old Lotus.

            If anything, Caterham has the best claim to being spiritually connected to the old Lotus.

          2. It’s unlikely they will adopt Team Lotus as the official team name, since Tony Fernandes still has the rights to the Team Lotus name – the courts agreed with him on that one. And even if it was up for sale, I doubt Renault/Bahar would pounce on it immediately, since having two different teams known by the same name from one year to the next would be needlessly complicated, and one of their big arguments has been that having two teams known as Lotus is confusing. For the sake of continuity, I expect they will remain known as Lotus Renault GP, or perhaps just Lotus Grand Prix.

          3. Currently tom, tony fernandes owns the right to historical lotus as for pms tony/bahar/naming deal if there is any deal at all going on i would expect that it will be to give the historical rights to proton because 1) that’s what they’ve wanted for 15 or so years to the point where they have blatently lied about the “fact” that they did own the history of team lotus 2) they wont want there to be any doubts about team lotus coming back again again in the future and 3) the only way this whole thing can go away for good now thanks to mr justice what ever his name is declaring that group lotus can enter f1 as a team. Is for one of the afformentioned companys to own both rights.

            Either way if this happens what a scum bag sell out.

        3. I think its will be safe to still call them Renault. Or just the enstone squad.

    2. Yes, you can finally stop calling it Team Fernandes, Prisoner Monkeys. Hopefully this will be the end of your irrational contempt for Tony Fernandes that is likely caused by a reason best left unsaid.

      1. In his defense, he has stated dislike for calling either team by the Team Lotus name. I don’t agree. But at least he dislikes consistently! :D

        Where would I be without PM?

    3. Reading through this page I feel like it says: Renault will provide engines and KERS for Team Lotus and whatever more is needed and it will be cheap but in exchange Team Lotus will drop that name. Sounds like Fernandes struck a good deal that way.

      1. James Allen said there was more to it, probably involving the Malaysian government and the sale of 20% of Malaysian Airlines to Fernandes. When we’re talking a billion-dollar-plus deal, a midfield and a nearly-but-not-quite midfield F1 team are both just cheap change.

        1. It might be a bit of everything. Probalby the pressure from Renault on Lopez or Bahar or whoever to make a move on it and get a deal done with Fernandes to finally enable Renault to get out of the team name has something to do with it as well as Fernandes now getting offered terms he is interested in.

    4. I’d be very surprised if half the people agreed with you on this one…

      I mean that it’s about time the court case is resolved, whatever the outcome.

    5. Here is a headache for stats fans:

      Will Caterham retroactively become joint 1st with Virgin for most starts in F1 without a point?

      Or will the count go back to 0?

      1. It’s a name change, but not an ownership change. So it’s should stay the same.

        However, I suspect what I think is completely wrong.

    6. It is time – but I wanted Fernandes to win, not Boullier.

      1. To be honest, I think Fernandes wins this one big.

        He gets Renault suppport for the team (something I am not all that sure the enstone guys will have forever), he gets a great deal on having the Malaysian air to himself, he will surely get a nice amount of money for it and he can get on with building a nice Caterham tie in.

        As a Bonus he will get more goodwill when he agrees to pick up the rubble after Bahar succumbs taking Group Lotus with him in a couple of years.

  2. Kind of unnecessary and faintly unpleasant goading from Horner, strange.

    1. If you read the whole article, he’s not having a jibe at Hamilton. Horner has clearly been asked what he thinks of Hamilton’s year so far, and he’s answered truthfully. So long as he’s got a driver like Sebastian Vettel, Horner doesn’t need to take cheap Parthian shots at the other drivers.

      What’s more, Horner is right about Hamilton. He’s had a horrid run of results of late, and he’s obviously frustrated. He’s never really raced an opponent who has walked all over him; sure, Jenson Button won six races from seven in 2009, but then Brawn ran out of money and McLaren turned their season around. It must be very frustrating for Hamilton to do everything right and still come off second-best. In a year where Vettel has obliterated everyone, Hamilton hasn’t really produced the kind of legendary drive he needs to show Vettel he’s a force to be reckoned with. Jenson Button, on the other hand, has – remember Canada? Although Hamilton is out-qualifying him, Button is having stronger and smarter races, and is clearly shaping up as team leader.

      Lewis Hamilton no doubt expected to be fighting for the World Championship this season, and it hasn’t happened despite the fact that he was the first one to show that Vettel is fallible. And the frustration is beginning to seep into his driving. He stopped and took stock of himself after Silverstone, and it paid off (though everyone criticised him for it at the time because he said he was going to do less PR hours; apparently, this meant he wasn’t a team player). He won the next race in Germany and commanded most of Hungary until his spin. But he’s already in a funk again, the kind of mire that let him down in June and July.

      1. This is the best comment you’ve made in months.

      2. I did read the article. Obviously Horner knows Vettel’s dominance comes firstly from having by far the best car at his disposal for the first half of the season, the Red Bull front row lock out of the grid, virtually no technical/reliability issues etc. Hamilton always over-drives, tries too hard, when he realizes they’re set to lose anyhow. Button accepts second best and risks less. The result is Hamilton wins more and loses more, so they end up fairly level. In the end, though, as Horner knows, either way it’s irrelevant, neither was or is challenging Vettel, even remotely. So why the dig about seeing the stewards so often and the contrast with Button? Just struck me as unusually mean-spirited and unnecessary compared to Horner’s usual diplomacy.

        1. I think you’re reading a bit too much into it – if Horner were talking about anyone else, I don’t think you’d be making this big a deal about it.

          1. Maybe I am, and probably no I wouldn’t – but it’s precisely because it’s Hamilton after the episode where a LH switch to Red Bull seemed a vague possibility both parties were considering. Maybe Hamish is right, it’s just some payback for Whitmarsh’s ill-advised comments on Vettel. But since those comments evidently back-fired with Vettel sorting himself out in the second half of 2010 and winning the title, why do the same? Just musing…

          2. I didn’t read the full article yet, but couldn’t that also be down to the questions he was asked, as UK media seem to be obsessed with questioning drivers, at the moment HAM is the subject. So Horner provides a context where he says the obvious but makes clear he doesn’t think HAM is being stupid but rather frustrated. In this case I agree with PM, you are probably reading to much into it.

        2. Well when you bring Whitmarsh’s comments on Vettel/Red Bull over the last 18 months into consideration I say good on Horner.

      3. I don’t agree with you PM, and I’ll explain why I find your, and other comments like it, irksome.

        It is obvious to both fans and non-fans that Hamilton is having a year with some tough races. But in what way does Horner see ‘frustration in his driving’ and how do you judge his driving to be ‘excessively aggressive’? Personally, I hardly saw any footage of Hamilton during qualifying yesterday, and anyway, Hamilton has always attacked his qualifying laps, often to good effect.

        The point is that we wouldn’t be having this conversation if he had simply spotted Kobayashi in his mirrors two weeks ago. Instead, people are analysing Hamilton’s frustration, his aggression, and his lifestyle, even if no-one has a clue what he does in his spare time.

        And the conclusion that Button is clearly shaping up as the team leader comes as no surprise from a Button fan.

        1. Well a team leader is one that focusses on the collective goal through thick and thin.

          I’ll let you draw your own conclusions on that.

          1. If McLaren had wanted Hamilton to develop into ‘team leader’ in Alonso or Schumacher-style, they wouldn’t have recruited an older driver, and recent world champion, renowned at least for being a good race tactician. Simply no space for Hamilton to act as boss driver. So they obviously wanted something more like Vettel and Webber at Red Bull.

            Basically Hamilton’s ‘just give me a fast car and I’ll do the rest’ isn’t working. It’s all about what he does with that fact.

      4. Agree with that PM. Horner did have a dig at McLaren and its drivers earlier in the year, but here he just says what we are all (or most of us) thinking about Hamilton, Button and the rest.

  3. Of course he’s frustrated. His championship hopes were buried months ago… not to mention his ‘mistakes’, which the whole world criticized.

    All that has to have an effect on his confidence. Nothing a win cannot fix tho!

  4. Interesting little article from Joe Saward: apparently, the Singaporeans aren’t happy with their Grand Prix because it’s too disruptive, so they’re considering moving it out to the new Kallang Sports Hub just outside the city centre. It’s an interesting article because they’re apparently studying alternate routes themselves – nobody has been commissioned to do the work.

    1. Have a mate that lives there. She hates motorsport, over the last 3 years that has turned into hatred with a passion.

      1. Personally, I’ll wait until I see it. There was a report after last year’s race that the circuit would be reconfigured, removing the chicanes along the waterfront and going around the War Memorial to make the circuit faster because a) the drivers were all complaining that their brakes were going (just 48% of the lap is spent at full throttle) and b) the lap was so long that the race was in danger of going over the two-hour time limit. However, the reconfiguration never happened. I have a friend who was in the Singaporean Army, and he reckons that the layout wouldn’t have changed because the land along the waterfront is actually the property of the Army (technically, the pits, paddock and the purpose-built section of circuit belong to the Army, too), and they would not give it up because the government wants to keep the waterfront free of excess development. He wasn’t too clear on exactly how this works, but it would appear that the government sells sections of land to the Army in order to control growth. Most of the open areas in the city actually belong to the Army, even though they never get used. They’re sold back to the government in small amounts so that the government can influence the future growth of the city.

        1. There’s another reason why the Army holds that area of land too, it’s a convienient holding area for men and equipment for the annual National Day celebrations held at the Floating Platform grandstand in August.

          As for the Kallang Sports Hub, I’m not holding my breath, it had been delayed for the better part of a decade (was supposed to have been completed in 2009), and apparently the FIA Class 2 track at Changi is likely to face the same fate…

          1. Interesting to hear about it.

            So as I understand it, Singapore is thinking about bigger changes to their track, but its not yet clear exactly what will become of that.
            Possibly power struggles (between army, pro/against factions and pro Kallang factions etc.) are part of the goings on.

  5. Perhaps its the disapointment of not having a SMA front wing that causes Hamilton these pangs of driving beyond He`s cars design. But as off next year I`ll only be half interested.

    1. Hes not driving beyond the cars design, hes just making some real dumb moves.

      1. Unlike Vettel at Spa 10, an Turkey 10, and as said ealier with the SMA wing, Vettel is a fast driver but is He quick?

        1. I thought we were talking about Hamilton?You haven’t even made an effort to reply to what I said.

    2. ‘SMA wing’? What on earth are you talking about?

      1. I want one too, whatever it is! Never heard that term before.

  6. COTD, Its true that in a perfect world these things would apply, but in this Con/Dem attitude world, He who hesitates, signs on.

    1. I think it might still be a big worry for any company.

  7. What i want to know is why button came into the pits when he was on to go faster than hamilton and at least vettels first time!

    1. Button is an intelligent guy, and a racer at heart. If he thought he had a shot at pole position, he would have taken it. Evidently, he (and/or the team) felt he did not, and he aborted the lap. Whatever the cause, he did not simply do it on a whim – he aborted for a reason, even if he does not broadcast it publicly.

      1. Yeah PM, “intelligent guy” who do not know his pit-stop…… why not come off your hidden agenda on Mr. Hamilton? Do you think people are not seeing your intentions…. just like a certain ex-driver who criticises Mr. Hamilton for no reason (El-Leone my foot!!)

        1. Nobody seems to be able to answer the question, why not take the certain P2 he was easily one for, maybe he did want P3 the same side as Pole and not P2 although he said from 3rd its almost impossible to get in front of the other two on the front row.

  8. It’s no wonder he’s frustrated. you should know it Horner! :P

  9. Oil pressure temp. water temp, brake disc temp, KERS temp, tyre temp, tyre pressure, grid three temp…. take ya pick :-)

    1. driver temp.

      1. Dont know why but reminds me off the stories of Ayrton testing at Snetterton in 83`ish, He wouldn`t go out till He`s gloves had been warmed up on the radiator.

        1. …the central heating kind :-)

  10. Caterham F1 Team won’t be a bad idea,I did notice that for the last couple of race the name Lotus is becoming a bit smaller on the sidepode of the car where the name Caterham is getting larger.

    Hamilton need to prove a lot this weekend.

    1. Hamilton need to prove a lot this weekend.

      But that’s his problem. He’s trying to prove a point and ends up over-driving the car. If you watch him on-board, he’s going hell-for-leather, throwing the car about. It’s excessive. He should let the car come to him instead of going to the car, because the car is controlling him rather than the other way around.

      If Hamilton wants to send a message to Red Bull, he should stop chasing Sebastian Vettel. He’s over a hundred points behind, and while he can mathematically win the championship, he’s not going to without divine intervention. But Mark Webber is just twenty-one points ahead of Hamilton with seven races to go, and so is much more exposed. Beating Webber might not have the same effect as beating Vettel, but it will prove that Red Bull cannot simply coast to a World Championship and let everyone else squabble over the minor placings.

  11. You never out perform the car, it just doesn`t deliver?

  12. I’ve found a whole batch of pictures of the Buddh International Circuit. Apparently, they were taken about a month ago. The person uploading them tends to post them one at a time, so you might need to sift through two or three pages of stuff to see them all. This one in particular, the climb up to the third turn, is very popular.

    1. I am having second thoughts about attending the Indian GP, there was a terrorist attack there in Delhi which killed a dozen people.

      Do you know if proper security are put in place at this track & the hotels nearby?

      1. I have no idea – I’m not in India. But honestly, I’d have bigger concerns about tonight’s Italian Grand Prix since it’s the tenth anniversary of the World Trade Centre attacks.

        The Indian government will no doubt take the recent events in New Delhi seriously and beef up security accordingly.

        1. If we had that NYC GP today that everyone keeps talking about then I would be concerned. Not sure if al-Qaeda would do anything about the Italian GP though.

    2. Thanks for posting these latest pictures, hope to see some more there soon.

  13. And I see stupidity in Horner’s statement. How long does he think Red Bull’s advantage will last. He must know that arrogance is not a good thing. As for Vettel, he may have won the championship, but he has so much more to prove about his racing abilities.

    He is the favored son at red bull. Get Marko out of the garage & Vettel will disintegrate like soviet union.

    Put hamilton & vettel in the same car and then you’ll notice hamilton’s greatness.

    1. As for Vettel, he may have won the championship, but he has so much more to prove about his racing abilities.

      Grab a knife and fork, and eat those words.

  14. Lucas Alexander Munro
    11th September 2011, 6:46

    I hope they sign Hamilton and Button for life.

    1. I don’t think Hamilton will sign up for something like that. It might be a deal for over a decade like that!

      But getting Button to sign for life makes a lot of sense, especially as all McLaren’s earlier drivers available like Hakkinen (Mercedes) and Couthard (Red Bull) (well and Kimi, he went to Ferrari) went on to be brand Ambassadors for their competitors!

  15. Horner makes a good point, although I think most of us can see that anyway. Other people call it determination, either term applies.

    Great COTD. Ahmedinijad probably doodled it during a routine stoning.

  16. Caltech Student
    11th September 2011, 7:01

    Here is an Analysis of Monza using Motec i2 pro(Mainly braking)

    Monza Telemetry Analysis

    Monza has no shortage of heavy braking points, this should go against Red Bull who,in addition to having an allegedly underpowered & unreliable(So says Chris Horner :P )engine, have suffered brake related issues earlier in the season . The major braking points are Rettifilo Tribune, Variante della Roggia, Variante Ascari & the entry into the parabolica. One could classify the lesmo’s as moderate braking zones.

    Used in the analysis are various parameters.

    1) A map of the circuit with a small dot indicating the position of the car. (note the darker colour in the braking zones)

    2) Brake pedal position (notice how it reaches peak position often)

    3) Throttle position(green)

    4)Then there is a numeric bar gauge displaying longitudinal & lateral g-forces

    5) Then there is a red colour graph of brake-pedal position(in %) vs time(in sec) notice where it reaches its peak.

    6) Then there is a green colour graph of throttle pedal position (in%) vs time(in sec)

    7) One more graph depicts brake temperature vs time ( Notice that the brake temperatures easily exceeds 1000c, unlike spa)

    8)There are 3 gauges displaying the Gear,engine rpm & cornering speed.

    9) In addition to the above, included is a Scatter Plot of Brake temperature( in Celsius) Vs Engine RPM(in rpm)

    10) You can also see the variation of the brake temperature in the numeric bar gauge.

  17. Q: Jenson, third on the grid and also again you didn’t do a final run?
    JB: Yeah, I mean the first run in Q3 was pretty good. I was pretty happy with it. But I felt I could go a little bit more, maybe a tenth or so, but I didn’t get a great first sector and I just carried that all the way through the lap so I was a tenth-and-a-half down. I knew through the last corner, the previous lap was perfect through there, so I looked down at the speed and just pulled into the pits knowing that I was a tenth-and-a-half off my best. It’s not so bad.

    Thats why he aborted his final run!

  18. Button team leader?? haha thats taking it a bit too far. Hamilton’s worst season and he’s only 3 points off Button who’s appparently having an excellent season. That speaks volumes.

  19. Tony Fernandes is understood to be on the point of applying to the FIA and FOM to change the name of his team to Caterham F1 Team.

    Damn, I will need to buy a new team cap next year :) I hope that they still will have some nice colour scheme as I pretty much like the dark green and yellow. Otherwise I don’t care much how the team is called. It’s the content that matters.

    1. James Allen claims that both Team Lotus and Lotus Renault will keep their colour schemes next year.

      1. Must have a look at it again, but I think he writes that while the deal will be sealed within short notice, the teams will keep their current liveries for this year to avoid further confusion.

  20. From the title of that article about Monti i thought I would seriously disagree with him.
    But what he actually says is, that he is not that much concerned about TV but rather what F1 can amount to for better internet coverage as well as being concerned about the price of race tickets.

  21. Horner didn’t say Hamilton is have a rough year because he hangs out with hip hop moguls in his off-hours, instead of catching butterflies or playing the viola. Why is Christian Horner failing to heed this wonderful fad?

    I don’t know if Horner is trying to blow a dog whistle here and say to Hamilton, “look at what you have to put up with—one day you can ditch Paddy Lowe’s jalopy and get into a proper race car,” but Hamilton doesn’t need any there-thereing from anyone.

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