Felipe Massa: “Hamilton doesn’t learn”

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In today’s round-up: Felipe Massa thinks the FIA should get tough on Lewis Hamilton following another incident between the pair at the Japanese Grand Prix.


Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Massa asks FIA to get tough with Hamilton after Japanese Grand Prix clash (Autosport)

“They have penalised people for much less this year and this time they didn’t do it. It’s the second time in a row after the problem in qualifying as well in the last race, and after what happened yesterday. And after many times this year. The FIA needs to take care of that. They are the only ones who can take care of that.”

Red Bull Racing’s videos (Facebook)

Sebastian Vettel’s video message to his fans.

Japanese Grand Prix from the pit lane with Ted Kravitz (BBC F1)

??BBC F1 pit-lane reporter Ted Kravitz with the behind-the-scenes gossip in the aftermath of the Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka.

Murray Walker’s verdict on Sebastian Vettel (BBC F1)

??Formula 1 commentary legend Murray Walker gives his assessment of Sebastian Vettel and what the 2010 and 2011 world champion can go on to achieve in the sport.??

FIA post-race press conference (Formula1.com)

??Fernando [Alonso], now [Sebastian Vettel] is the youngest two time World Champion; you’ve lost that title. What does it mean to you now?

??FA: Really nothing special. I think now we will see who is the youngest three time World Champion.??

I am living the life of a F1 driver: Karthikeyan (Hindustan Times)

Video interview with Narain Karthikeyan ahead of the Indian Grand Prix.

Formula 1, rally and motorcycle stars lined up for kart event in Spain (Autosport)

??Barcelona’s Olympic Palau Sant Jordi will host an inaugural, all-star, indoor karting event on December 18. Six current Formula 1 drivers will compete against top competitors from MotoGP and the World Rally Championship.??

As Hamilton fluffs his lines again, Mansell chides: Lewis has an attitude problem (Daily Mail)

??Lewis has to work on an attitude problem,’ said Mansell, a winner of 31 grands prix. He needs to get his head in a better place. You have to manage your car better than Lewis has done on too many occasions this season. Too many times he has positioned his car where he has caused an incident.??

Jo??o Paulo Oliveira via Twitter

??Back in 05 Macau F3 GP I was really annoyed by a certain rookie driver who knocked me out of a podium. Now that guy is 2x F1 world champion.??

The time Scuderia Ferrari told me off (Doctorvee)

??Early on during this morning’s Japanese Grand Prix, Fernando Alonso overtook Felipe Massa. Massa didn’t make it difficult for Alonso ? not that you would expect him to. I have to admit to doing a little victory dance in my chair at having riled Ferrari enough to provoke them to reply.??

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Comment of the day

Have you rated the race? Steph says:

I don’t want to put a downer on Seb because I love him and I’ve just watched the forum and I’m positively delighted for him but I thought he was a bit crazy at the start. He developed a nasty habit last year of chopping people at the start and trying to scare them out of the way (Germany for example) and I thought he had grown out of it but it wasn’t nice to see it make a comeback today. He’s been so, so close to perfection all year and fully deserves this title but that really annoyed me at the start.

JB’s win was my favourite ever of his. He was very calm after the start and got his revenge in great style. I’ve said before that I wanted to see him win in dry conditions and showcase his speed and that’s exactly what he did. I may be a Ferrari fan and he’s a in a Mclaren but I really enjoyed watching him.

I’m delighted for Alonso. He’s my driver of the day (JB for the weekend). The way he managed his race and set the car up was just so smart. It’s like he came out of nowhere, steadily climbed up while others made mistakes and somehow managed to push JB a bit too in that awful car.

Congrats to all three podium occupants today. JB deserved his win, Alonso deserved 2nd place and Vettel more than deserved his title. It was beautiful to watch the celebrations and he fans were still there cheering! The Japanese fans are just diamonds.

I was a bit surprised to see Mark wasn’t with the Red Bull team celebrating which is bad form and bad PR.

From the forum

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Happy birthday!

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On this day in F1

James Hunt won the United States Grand Prix East 35 years ago today, setting up a championship showdown at the final race in Japan.

Niki Lauda finished third behind Jody Scheckter, keeping a three-point lead over Hunt heading into the last race.

Here are some highlights from the race:

169 comments on “Felipe Massa: “Hamilton doesn’t learn””

  1. I think the term “racing incident” completely passed by Felipe Massa. If he’s hit in any way, the other guy should be penalised, more so if it’s Lewis. Deary me…

    1. It was the same move he made on Kamui at Spa, he deserved a penalty.

      1. It was just as daft, but did it?

        Do we really want to be screaming for a penalty when someone makes a stupid mistake? I don’t think so.

        1. Repeated stupid mistakes – YES

          1. I agree!
            one stupid mistake, if it isn’t bad enough to cause a serious accident of cause, should go free. Maybe with a warning depending on how serious it is.
            But do it four times, against the same driver alone, and quite a few other times as well against other drivers. I don’t think the stewards should give him much room for error.
            I simply don’t see how repeated accidents, one after the other, like that can be accepted.
            It should be hit down on, and hit down on hard. As Hamilton really needs to get it into his head, that he should look at his own driving and see where he can improve and erase the errors.
            So that he can show us what a brilliant racing driver he really is, instead of looking like fool.
            Which is quite sad, really.

          2. Agreed, repeated stupid mistakes AND damaging someone else’s tyres and front wings

          3. Massa is correct when he says “Hamilton doesn’t learn”. He ruined Massa’s race, and he risked ruining his own.

            Once is a driving incident, repeatedly ruining other people’s races (actually repeatedly ruining Massa’s race) is not on.

            Anyone remember James Hunt’s nickname – “Hunt the shunt” ?

            Unless Hamilton gets his head together he’ll never win the championship again… he’ll be Jacques Villeneuve all over again… a one time champion with a chip on his shoulder. Meanwhile Button will quietly and effectively go on outperforming him.

          4. Agreed. Every driver gets the benefit of the doubt for an error every now and then, but that erodes the more errors you make.

          5. well … it takes two to tango, Massa just need to learn keep his mouth shut and not crying as if he always a victim.

      2. SennaNmbr1 (@)
        10th October 2011, 11:31

        Definitely same as Spa. Looking into the corner whilst drifting twards the outside of the track in a straight line.

        1. Same in Canada too? Lewis is to blame in all clashes involving, or not, Lewis Hamilton. :)

          1. I guess you guys missed the FIA report then,

            ‘lewis took his normal racing line through the corner’

            or are you trying to say lewis should have given way cos someone was attempting to overtaking him?


            massa should not have been there and was lucky he didn’t get a penalty for cauisng an avoidable accident

            ah, perhaps that’s massa’s issue…he thinks people should just move out of his way…after all, its what he does…isn’t it?

            perhaps alonso could answer that 1

    2. I support your idea in some reason, PM.

      1. PM didn’t post the message you were responding to :P

    3. I wish he would just change the record…

      Has he been reprogrammed with whatever hypnotherapy technique Ferrari used on Rubens when he was Michael’s team-mate? Only explanation I can come up with for the constant whining and lack of fight against Alonso. Although it does seem to have had the unexpected side effect of seriously hampering his ability to actually race.

      1. @dobin1000 I agree this is more about Massa deflecting attention away from his own poor showing this year, his comments about Lewis are quite aggresive and I think he may be feeling pressure from within the team and still harbouring resentment from how the 2008 season ended. I have been critical of Hamilton recently and still believe that he needs to get his head together but the last thing we want is penaltie being handed out everytime cars bang wheels, and just for the record I thought Vettels move on Jenson at the start was far worse and more dangerous, but I don’t want the steralisation of F1 and would rather have these debates and listen to Massas wild rants than watch 26 cars follow eachother around to scared to make a move in case they loose positions. The whole point of DRS was to reduce the gamble of overtaking and encourage drivers to make the move, over stewardship would have the reverse effect and stop drivers taking a chance, i’m not advercating dangerous driving just exiting racing.

    4. Considering how many times he has had stupid collissions like that one I think they should have penalized him. And like said before, he has already gotten penalties for much less. Repeated stupid mistakes should be considered more and more severe every time they happen. Lewis has had contact with Massa something like 5 times in just this year and I can’t recall a single one that wasn’t caused by him doing a stupid mistake. I’m no F1 driver and therefore my opinion is definitely not worth a lot, but by this point I feel like it is easy to see that he is definitely doing the same dumb mistakes over and over again.

  2. As Peter Griffin would say:
    “Shut up Massa!”

    1. Agreed. Stop crying massa and go drive. What a babe. He might as well go play with dolls.

    2. Massa needs to man up, and stop this constant grizzling

    3. Well, Massa’s carping is annoying – but his frustration is understandable. He’s treated with complete disrespect by his own team, and has been completely sacrificed to Fernando ‘The Only Man in the Team’ Alonso. Even if he got a podium, the team would probably demand he climb up there wearing an Alonso mask.

      So he’s lashing out at easy targets, rather than the team who pays his wages. No, it isn’t pretty but I still feel a bit sorry for him. He was nearly WDC, but a crash and Alonso’s arrival have wiped out his career, so it’s not surprising he’s a bit bitter

  3. Massa needs to put a lid on it now. I know it’s a ruthless sport, but I’m bored of hearing him berate everyone around him, complain and moan. He needs to focus on his own driving and figure out how to get a number on Alonso, quickly, if he fancies any chance of getting an extension to his contract and be with Ferrari until 2013.

    1. Berate everyone around him? He’s only had a go at the same guy he keeps crashing into him which I feel is perfectly understandable.

      1. Well Massa has crashed into most people to be fair. Unfortunately for Lewis, he’s made Massa look stupid in the past (Malaysia 2007 comes to mind – terrible, terrible overtaking attempts) and Massa is fighting for his F1 career. Just like a losing football player blames the referee rather than his own perfomance, Massa is looking for a scape goat. Massa should be focussing on his own driving. To qualify a whole second behind your team mate in Singapore….not even his Mum could be proud of him after that…

        1. It’s true, Lewis regularly breezes past Felipe – except when the latter closes the door and they collide. But my theory is that this Massa fixation on Hamilton dates back to the unhealthy Ferrari-FIA-Moseley ‘short-circuit’ during the 2008 season when Massa was fighting (often very well) for the title. Some of the penalties given to Hamilton were absurd and they had a major effect on the championship battle – to Massa’s benefit. So in this kind of situation are you, Massa, going to admit you’re benefitting unfairly from some weird decisions or back FIA/the stewards to preserve your own dignity? I think Felipe Massas’s obsession with FIA/the stewards ‘teaching’ Hamilton lessons can be traced back to this season. Especially given how it ended. Added to that is Alonso arriving and with him a whole new set of issues with one particular driver, though Alonso himself seems to have got past his McLaren baggage now that his biggest rival is actually Vettel. Massa has frozen in time, though, after being demoted to bit-part player at Ferrari. My own view is that he is – or was – a fast enough driver and has enough experience to drive for another team and feel much better about it. He may finish a few players further down, but I’d have thought it’d be more rewarding for him personally to be able to really fight on equal terms with his team mate again. But maybe it’s the money and Ferrari fame that counts.

          1. Lewis said he didn’t see Massa. Vettel said he didn’t see Button! Something is wrong with those rearview mirrors…

            However, FIA said Lewis was following that line lap after lap.

  4. Jeez, im not even a fan of Lewis and even im bored of Mansell relentless comments on Lewis, yawn. At least Nicky Lauda is entertaining when he speaks his nonsense.

    1. Does anyone else think it’s a bit rich for Mansell to be criticising Hamilton for not looking after his car during a race?

      Mansell would have been a triple world champion if he’d have mastered this himself! Come on Nige, you’ve got to see the irony!

      1. Hindsight is 20/20 – Mansell is drawing on reflection from his past to make such a statement, no?

        1. A nice an positive interpretation indeed. Shows Mansell now knows what he might have done better and wants to tell Hamilton.
          But it would be better if he said it like that, maybe someone would like to hear that from him.

          1. @BasCB – Yep, definitely agree with that. It just comes across as a bit rich otherwise. I actually agree with some of Mansell’s thoughts – it just sitting well coming from him of all people!

      2. folks seem to be getting down on Mansell, but I don’t see what he’s doing as just being critical of Hamilton for no other purpose than to be critical. He’s giving suggestions to Hamilton in the hopes that Hamilton will fully realize his potential.

      3. I read Mansell’s comment as criticising Hamilton for not managing his car better, i.e. by not being able to put in a second flying lap in Q3 in Japan, not for not looking after his car mechanically.

      4. I really think this is Mansells way of saying “Learn by my mistakes”, just without him having to admit he’s ever made any.

  5. I can’t understand all this anti-Massa talk. It’s as though people think that because Massa was on the outside of the corner, it suddenly makes it acceptable for another driver to drift over on him.

    Put yourself in his situation. After all the comings together with Hamilton this year, would you stay silent? It’s a bit like the straw that broke the camel’s back.

    Anyhow, I’m really surprised by this latest incident. It’s very similar to the Hamilton/Kobayashi incident from Spa. Hamilton needs to start learning from these things or I can see him turning into another Jacques Villeneuve – if that hasn’t already happened.

    1. In this circumstance though, it was deemed a racing incident. In the past Hamilton has gotten a penalty (justly or unjustly), and so served his sentence. This time even the stewards saw no need to reprimand him. They also didn’t penalize Webber for running into Schumacher (Webber also ran into Massa back in Monza), or Vettel for crowding Button on the start (even though they reviewed the incident). Everyone was very aggressive and the stewards just let them race. I don’t think any party should be complaining after this race as everyone was given equal treatment.

    2. “Put yourself in his situation. After all the comings together with Hamilton this year, would you stay silent? It’s a bit like the straw that broke the camel’s back.”

      The straw that broke the camels back for felipe was the first time they came together this year in monaco which wouldn’t have happened had felipe given more room, like hamilton did when schumacher went up the inside on him at lowes.

      To make my point clearer the word silent is not in massa’s vocabulary he’s been nothing but vocal of his dislike for hamilton all year and everyone in the world bar you and massa are bored stiff of it. I hope when you look back on your life the time you have wasted reading massa’ excuses for being slower than alonso bring you some sort of absolution because they aren’t accomplishing anything else.

      1. There’s no need to get so personal. Above all else, it undermines your argument.

    3. Nothing against Massa, here. But I really think he should be letting it go and focus on his own racing (just as Hamilton should focuss on his racing and learn from his mistakes).
      Massa is starting to sound like poor Trulli with his drawings and pictures in the notebook hounding Sutil a couple of years back to prove who was wrong.

    4. Massa probably has a good point, but due to his current terrible driving himself this season, i.e. getting thrashed by Alonso, he needs to shut up because he sounds like a child asking a teacher to send someone for detention quite honestly

    5. Oh snap :) I made the same connection to Jacques Villeneuve. Hamilton is in severe danger of following his footsteps and ended his career as a one-time champion with a chip on his shoulder.

    6. seriously now mate…

      lewis is flat out through a chicane nursing a slow punture…where should he be looking?

      a/ where he’s going
      b/ in his opposite mirror

      as stated by the FIA lewis was on the racing line which means massa took a lunge up the outside and is lucky he didn’t get penalised

      also…did you not watch the pre-quali show where coultard showed new angles of the koby incident….and who turned in on who?

      wrong! koby turned on lewis and coultard (not me) says kobys fault

      all drivers know the racing line and if they lunge up the outside and don’t pull it off they only have themselves to blame

      pitty massa’s gotta make a fool of himself and act like a cry baby

  6. Watch out Felipe! The F1 door is going to hit you too.

      1. Massa’s lasting legacy will be as a No.2 driver that gave way to his team mate whilst whinged and moaned during his decline. I felt sorry for him after his accident in Hungary. Now I can’t stand the guy – there’s nothing worse that someone blaming their failures on other people.

        Massa goes on about Hamilton not learning. I would actually flip it around and say that Massa doesn’t learn. In the eyes of Massa, if you go up against Hamilton you’re risking your car. Now i have a very different view but if you follow this thinking through then logic would tell you to give Hamilton a very wide berth when racing him. Putting your car on the outside of a corner with 2 wheels alongside Hamilton probably isn’t the smartest thing to do then if that’s what you believe….Maybe Massa should have “using his mind” as he would put it.

    1. I think Massa is not (anymore) WDC material…

      1. Hewis Lamilton
        10th October 2011, 16:38

        Agreed. Just as Hamilton isn’t WDC material any longer either.

        1. Is that a joke? Make the Mclaren the best car and Hamilton has a great chance of another WDC, as does Button. Make the Ferrari the best car and Massa has a great chance of coming 2nd at best.

  7. Massa is exaggerating that particular incident a bit I must say, but he is not wrong when he says “Hamilton doesn’t learn”, at least as far as collisions are concerned, which is certainly something that Lewis needs to work on for his own good. Stewards made the right decision not to give a penalty. But if Massa had been taken out or incurred some significant damage, then maybe penalty would have been warranted….

  8. I agree with Mansell. I think Lewis has got an attitude problem at the minute. In any post race interview with Lewis regarding an incident – whether he was in the right or – he mutters quietly, shakes his head, blurts out vague answers, often ‘I didn’t know happened’ or ‘I suppose it happened again…’ orientated. I’d rather him speak up and speak clearly about issues and offer proper arguments, even. It’s better than sulking like a teenager.

    Massa is just as bad, in a different sense – but I appreciate articulating something he’s angry about isn’t exactly easy in your third language. Phrases like ‘he cannot use his mind’ seem strong but he probably means Hamilton needs to think before he acts, or something. Something he ought to stop is acting as the pupil who told teacher, FIA this, stewards that…

    I understand on a few occasions Hamilton has held his hands up and apologised. But apologising is one thing – doing something about it is another.

    1. I completely agree with everything you’ve said.

    2. @Electrolite Well said. He does have a problem, but I don’t think that was apparent in Japan. I agree with the stewards findings on this occasion. As a general view though, on the majority of the season, he does need to sort it out. Now is the best time, don’t leave this hanging into 2012.

    3. @Electrolite sorry but i disagree – just because Lewis wants to be his own person does not mean he has an attitude problem. Mansell wants Lewis to be like him, and he has the power as a steward and is literally trying to force Lewis to be what Mansell wants. That is wrong. Anthony Hamilton has his own opionion. So does you Electrolite and about a million or so other people who love or hate but follow Lewis with a passion. He cannot be what all these people want him to be. First it is an impossibility and second, if he looses his identity he will no longer be the person that boils the blood of fans and detractors alike. Let Lewis learn his own lessons his own way – just because somebody is different from what you want him to be does not give him an attitude problem.

      1. @NDINYO I like Lewis. Don’t get me wrong. And I fully appreciate he is his own person as that is something special in a sport like this. He shouldn’t stop being his own person at all; but what I don’t agree with is the justification that, just because you’ve been told off for something before, it makes whenever you repeat that action okay, simply because it makes someone like Mansell or Massa seem repetitive when they complain. There can’t be separate rules for certain people.

        Mansell can’t expect people to do exactly what he expects off the track however and he perhaps needs to criticise Massa in these incidents for some equality.

      2. I hope Hamilton stays exactly the way he is. That way we’ll always have something to talk abour and occasionally he will show great performances. It’d be really boring if he was like Vettel, analysing his mistakes, thinking about how to improve that and trying not to make the mistake again. I don’t like either of them but I must admit Vettel is impressive in the way he goes about his work.

  9. Its obvious that Hamilton just has no respect for other drivers. If I’m Flipper (Massa) ……I would just take Hamilton, the bonehead, right out at the start of the race. Enough is enough ……if the stewards can fix him straight – seems like self justice is required here. At this stage of the season, no one really cares where Flipper will finish in the standings ……so why not take matters in your own hands – time to drop the hammer and teach Hamilton a lesson !!!

    1. Wow – you must be psychic. Massa’s pretty good at this:




      That’s just a few start line crashes for whinger. Here’s a great one of Massa in Monaco – no doubt he would have been calling on the FIA to take action against himself for this one….?


      Now it’s easy to focus on any one driver and pick out crashes. My point being that this is RACING and crashes happen. Massa needs to stop whinging and take a look at his own performance.

      For all you Hamilton haters out there – i feel sorry for you.

        1. And here’s Massa getting owned by Hamilton.


          Easy to see why Massa is targetting Hamilton – he’s made him look like a fool so many times now.

      1. If we’re really gonna start comparing, I reckon I could easily find more videos of Hamilton crashes/mistakes/incidents than Massa ones.

        But as it wouldn’t really prove much, I won’t bother.

        1. Didn’t you read my post? Have another try.

        2. Love to watch videos of Hamilton, please feel free to post. I think you’ll struggle to find a video of him poking and shoving other drivers outside of the car…. May be you don’t race cars but I do. When you’re racing them sometimes you make contact, break too late etc. It’s not personal, it’s racing. Massa needs to figure this out.

          PS Whilst searching through your video catalogue, please also try and find a video of Massa as world champion. Hamilton knows how to win championships – he’s been doing it his whole life. Massa shouldn’t spout his mouth of like that – all he’s ever won is no.2 seat in a Ferrari.

          1. Couln’t agree more. Massa never forgave Lewis for pipping him to the championship in 2008

          2. Hewis Lamilton
            10th October 2011, 16:45

            Hopefully Villeneu…..er i mean Hamilton will enjoy his single WDC.

    2. Yeah and loose your super license well done flipper what are you going to do for your next trick catch and eat a raw mackerel with your face?

    3. Yeah let’s all use our fists to solve our disputes, that always works. How grown up.

    4. @Canuck You are also forgetting the obvious problem that to do that Massa might have to actually qualify within a few places of Hamilton, and as long as McLaren don’t shoot themselves in the foot again the chances of that are pretty slim.

  10. Sorry, it makes me laugh when Hollywood Lou runs into his fellow number 2 Massa and the slings and arrows that sprout to Massa’s direction. Maybe Massa and others should pull off the road, get out of their cockpits and genuflect while the Second Coming of Senna motors past (hopefully far enough off the road so Hollywood doesn’t run into them). Maybe, but doubtful, that will satisfy everyone else. Meanwhile I find it interesting that the guy everyone denounces as being unworthy for Hollywood to tangle with is the prime target for Hollywood in so many races. Such a tangled web we weave.

  11. Massa might have been quicker but he needs to understand that the “driverX is quicker than you…” method of overtaking only works within Ferrari and not with other teams.

  12. In my opinion, Massa’s had his chance in Formula 1. He’s not the same driver he used to be ever since the incident at Hungary (mind you, I’ve never rated him highly). He is always very moany and whiney and doesn’t ever seem self motivated to do better- always a problem with the car, strategy, or Lewis. (Unfortunatly for Massa, Ferrari don’t have their controversial links with the FIA anymore.) Although, his biggest problem is that he, Ferrari and us F1Fanatics all know that Alonso is faster than him full stop. He is milking the Ferrari cow, taking the money and Ferrai knows that he will get out of Alonso’s way, which is a shame because there are plenty of motivated, ernest drivers on the grid who would surely take up that 2nd seat and produce better results than Massa.

    1. I think Lewis deserved a penalty, it was the exact same move that he made on Kamui at Spa. If the mirrors on the McLaren dont produce downforce, they may as well take them of the car.

      1. Oh the hypocracy. You want to see driving that deserves a penalty – check out the start of last year’s race from our whining talentless no 2 driver Massa:


        Oh and it’s funny how the only incident that was investigaed was one involving Hamilton…Did you SEE Webber drive into the back of Schumacher in the S’s???? That would have been a straight penalty for Hamilton but surprise surprise no investigation (i don’t think it was worthy of penalty mind you).

        Even when Hamilton is in front, he gets accused of being in the wrong. It was Hamilton at fault in Singapore – he was too late on the breaks and he was the man behind. Same should apply here in Suzuka for Massa – if you leave your car hanging on the outside of a braking zone you’re asking for trouble. I actually think it was Massa’s fault for positioning his car where he did.

        I can’t wait for Massa to get replaced personally – he’s really getting on my wick.

        1. The Vettel/Button incident at the start got investigated too iirc. I’m not sure about the proceedures involved with making an investigation but I remember Martin Brundle saying that if a team requests an investigation into a particular incident then it will be looked at. So that’s not exactly a case of double standards against Lewis.

          1. David was talking about Webber hitting Schumacher 2/3 laps before SC deployment.

          2. I think it’s pretty obvious that if you’re name is Lewis Hamilton, you’re going to get investigated if you make contact with another car, and you’re likely to come off worse….

            I’ll never forget that race in Spa….There was only one winner.

            If you think about all of the scrapes and close calls you’ve seen in F1 over the past 4 years, and how many of those not involving Hamilton have not been investigated you get a pretty ugly picture. It doesn’t help at the moment that he’s clashing with a Ferrari – the Mafia in the guise of a red car.

            As for the moaning by the other drivers, I’m sorry but it’s a clear case of Tall Poppy Syndrome. I just hope he has thick enough skin to ignore the detractors and not lose heart with the sport.

        2. The Webber/Schumacher incident was clearly Webber’s fault – the gap was always going to close and he wasn’t far enough alongside the Mercedes. However, the only damage done was to Webber’s front wing. If Schumacher had been spun off in the incident, or had sustained a puncture, then a penalty for Webber would have been justified.

        3. @davidwhite you’ve once again chosen to tackle something other than the ball. @Macca compared Hamilton’s latest incident with Ham/Kobayashi in Spa.

          In your reply you choose to cite anything but that comparison. Japan 2010, Massa, Schumacher, Webber, Singapore… it’s all irrelevant.

          Instead of going off at tangents, perhaps you should address his central argument directly. Afterall, it wasn’t the longest of posts.

      2. He got tagged by Schumi also at Canada on the way to the last corner.
        Same incident to Button on Hamilton.

        Massa just doesn’t respect Hamilton. He pushes & instigates all this
        nonsense. Both are losing their cool. Get it together you two.

  13. precedent had been set at the start, letting the drivers play a bit rough. on another day, it would be another penalty.

    1. @f1yankee There’s probably a lot of truth in that. I wouldn’t have given a penalty in either situation but I can see how somebody else might.

  14. The interesting thing about Mansell’s comments is that they came before the race and another “I didn’t see him” comment from Lewis.

    1. I think drivers a resorting too much on “I didn’t see him” comments to justify their ugly moves. Vettel said “I didn’t see Jenson”

      1. You mean like Jenson ‘didn’t see’ Lewis at Canada this year? People see what they want to, including spectators.

  15. This time though it was a racing incident Hamilton needed to be more careful as he knew the spotlight was on him & Massa,but I don’ think for this incident Hamilton should get a penalty.

  16. I loved the way the guys from Planetf1 have described Massa’s frustration and his real state of mind:

    “…It can’t be easy being Felipe Massa right now. You outqualify your team-mate at the ultimate driver’s circuit. You get a good start, circulate with a small gap to the car in front, then your engineer comes on the radio after five laps and tells you to move over and let your team-mate through.

    After which he probably tells you to act as a blocker to Mark Webber (“block Webber, destroy Webber’s race, good lad”) so that he won’t get close to your precious team-mate who you’ve just gifted a place to.

    All around you on the grid, you can see team-mates who are allowed to race each other; Lewis can have a go at Jenson, Mark can have a go at Seb within reason; Nico and Michael can have little battles, too.

    But no, you’re the instrument of the team and you suspect that deep down, if Fernando ran out of front wings you’d be asked to stop so he could have yours…”

    LINK: http://www.planetf1.com/race-features/7232750/Suzuka-GP-Winners-Losers

    1. Interest comments, but the guys on PlanetF1 seem to have selective memories and don’t remember that little confusion over the radio in Turkey “Is Jenson going to overtake me?” “No, Lewis, no”, even though Button was faster. It is at Casa de RedBull where they take the front wing from one driver and give it to his team-mate. And don’t forget Silverstone this year too when Mark was told NOT to have a go at Sebastian. All these “small incidents” are delicately ignored, while when it comes to Alonso passing Massa, people are standing with a magnifying glass shouting that the pass was made to easily. Yes, Massa is No 2 at Ferrari simply because he isn’t as good as their No 1. There were precedents at other teams too (including the fairest of all – McLaren) when a driver made way for his team-mate to pass but interestingly, nobody cared.

      1. re. Turkey 2010: just to clarify Klaas, given the high fuel consumption being experiened by all teams, the issue was the instruction to save fuel given to both drivers, Hamilton understood they were given a set lap time to match, Button – admitting ‘confusion’ after the race – thought they just had to go a bit slower, and caught Lewis. When Button went past, the fight between them both to regain position was genuine and indeed spectacularly good. After that, the issue was ‘settled’, i.e. they were told to hold position baically, since both had to finish the race after all! Can we leave that one to rest now?!

        1. I can leave it a rest, I was simply responding to the person who can’t. It seems some media has an attitude problem as it barely makes a headline when their favourite team is involved in a controversy, but when Ferrari is, they distort facts, make statements based on their own assumptions without any proofs. This is becoming more similar to paranoia when everything Massa does they say it’s for Alonso to make up places.

    2. By the way, read the comments on the article, you seem the only one who agrees with the deluded author of that joke of a column.

      1. What? Have you actually watched this season?
        The ‘No, Lewis, no’ thing is past and history mate, how many times have Lewis and Jenson been given the chance to race each other fair and square this year? Really, ive lost count.
        Now you tell me how many times have the Ferrari drivers raced each other?

        1. Yet McLaresn are the only team to have a car DNF due to teammate squabbles. SWEET

          1. squabbles, a.k.a. racing – some people like it.

          2. And they’re comfortably beating the red guys who don’t allow intra-team racing. SWEETER!

        2. @sebsronnie – only one guy is beating the red car and that is not so comfortably (exception Singapore). SWEETEST :P

    3. That would be great if it wasn’t from PlanetF1 and it actually had some evidence that Massa moved over for Alonso instead of idle speculation from a point in the race where Massa was seriously struggling with his rear tyres irrc.

  17. I’d like to know when people have been “penalized for less.” In this race alone people were not penalized for considerably more. Massa is so boring now. His deranged mutterings are not distracting from his terrible performance in the car.

    FA is probably going to eat those words. If Newey makes another alien spaceship, no one is going to stop Vettel next year either. And after 7 or 8 races, we will again have to be content with speculating about why Hamilton chose his agents or why he is with an evil succubus girlfriend, and Massa’s insane pleadings like a panhandler on the subway.

    1. If Newey makes another alien spaceship,


  18. Ignoring Massa’s comments, I’d say that this was a relatively trouble, incident free race weekend for him, which is what he needed. But that’s why it’s so worrying. He was still convincingly beaten by Fernando, both Red Bulls, both Mclarens as usual, and even Michael Schumacher in the Mercedes. Is this supposed to be the best he can do?

    On another note, Alonso saying “we will see who is the youngest three time world champion” is a legend response, game on 2012 :)

    1. That’s why despite all his ‘shenanigans’ I can’t help but like Alonso. His face seeing Vettel immediately after the race said it all: already planning how he’s going to beat Vettel to number 3! If McLaren can’t deliver, I really hope Ferrari can next year and we see an actual title battle.

  19. It’s interesting to watch the clashes between Hamilton and Massa both on and off track. At the moment, there are a lot of similarities between the two – both have been fighting for world championships before and both are now left in the shadows of their team mates. Their weakened form combined with the fact that Ferrari and McLaren are not far from each other in terms of pace ensures that Hamilton and Massa meet each other on the track much more often than they would like to. And the frustration leads to unwillingness to accept that “Lewis / Felipe is faster than you”.

    Talking about Hamilton, we cannot know what’s going on inside his head these days although it’s clear that he’s extremely frustrated with the current situation. But I wouldn’t be quick to tell him what he should do. If there was an easy solution to his problems, he would have found it by now but obviously there isn’t. Hamilton cannot simply change his driving style or his approach to racing in one day and he cannot suddenly become another person, too.

    1. Great comment Girts.

    2. Good response.

      I think Lewis Hamilton’s season can be summarised in just one word: PIRELLI

      His style just doesn’t work in this era of tyre preservation. In the Bridgestone days, his all out attack mode won him the championship. If he tries to drive to preserve tyres, he just isnt fast enough because that is not his style. This has brought about frustration and it reflects in his driving style. If you look at the early races where the tyres were harder compounds, he was performing much better than now.

      1. Spot on. These new tyres just don’t play to his strengths ie an all out racer. To be successful these days, you’re better off being slower in terms of real pace but gentle on the tyres – which is quite a neat description of Jenson Button!

    3. Massa is in a fragile, frustrated state of mind. The last time he won an F1 race was in 2008, which was also his best season – and look who beat him to the championship by a single point, and in Brazil to boot – bad, bad Lewis. Massa and Lewis have been involved in a few altercations this season – and Massa generally comes off the worse, even when both have to pit after their on-track embraces. In Suzuka, it hurt even more because, after their coming together and both having to pit, Lewis comes out and easily overtakes Massa, who must have been VERY sorely tempted to pull a Vettel-start-like move on the Englishman.
      But Massa is not really mad at Hamilton – no, no, no. He is mad at himself and his team, and his teammate. He hates Ferrari for making him Alonso’s b!tch: when Alonso wants to overtake him, Massa gets pulled over. He hates his team but he knows no other team will sign him 0 and hence is boxed into a tight red corner. He hates Alonso because the sulking Spaniard is a multiple world champion and has the whole of Ferrari at his beck and call, while he – Massa – has to sit there and play second fiddle – and even that only because Schumacher chose to go to Mercedes. In a way, Massa is just like his countryman, Baricchelo, but minus the wins and the skill (such as it is).
      This is why Lewis and everyone else – Alonso included – treat Massa with such derision: how can a Formula 1 driver let himself be turned into little more than a glorified water-boy for his team?
      These are the demons that are eating Massa up. This season, he has discovered that the Stewards don’t really mind when one has a go at Lewis, so he is trying to make that hay while that sun shines. He better: given the body language of Lewis at the moment at McLaren, the Englishman might be getting a move on – perhaps even breaking his contract or buying it out to go somewhere more interesting. One of those places, if Webber moves on and Alonso goes to Red Bull, would be Ferrari. And then, lordy, if Massa was still there, he would be Lewis’ b!tch. Wouldnt we love to see that…!

      1. @bingi if i was massa and i read this – i would surely hunt you down to the ends of the earth and do very very bad things to you

        1. Well nothing to worry about there then NDINYO. Massa is far too slow to catch anyone. Maybe he’ll make a plea to the FIA to do his hunting down for him. That’s the just the way he rolls…

      2. Cheaky but there’s a lot of truth in this. I think the chant of “No.2 driver” is haunting Massa.

        1. Hewis Lamilton
          10th October 2011, 16:58

          It’s hard to be too excited about a war between McLaren’s #2 and Ferrari’s #2 drivers.

      3. Barrichello doesn’t have more wins or more skill than Massa.

        1. Yep, they’re equal in wins and skills. And also in their countrymen despisal for them. I sometimes read the Brazilian online newspaper Folha and I’m amazed – there’s not ONE positive comment about them. I can’t see how they can continue like this in F1, guess they are only driving to get their pension.

    4. kenneth Ntulume
      10th October 2011, 11:53

      Its very very very interesting, how people are so eager to assert that Button has left Hamilton in the shadows, its as if a deep rooted wish which appeared unlikely is now here, sorry folks Lewis is still a better driver. U dont get it Lewis doesn’t compete for nos 2 in the Championship nor a lesser goal of only beating your teammate, to Lewis not being champion is real bad, beating your team mate whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!JB can compete there

      1. Hewis Lamilton
        10th October 2011, 22:25

        Well said. Let Lewis enjoy his one WDC. Maybe he and Villeneuve can get together and compare their trophy. And Jensen could join in with his.

      2. So according to you, LH wants to be champion, but can’t be bothered to beat his teammate.

        Tell me how you thought “F1 Fanatic” is an synonym for “comedy club”?

  20. Whew, I’ve never seen so much hating on either Massa or Hamilton in the comments in a long time.

    Perhaps now that Vettel has won the title they will both calm down, not having to support Button and Alonso as much.

    I think both guys just need the off season to get here so they can take a break, take stock of their lives and R-E-L-A-X. And their fans, the media, etc. need to do the same.

    It is true that neither of them is living up to expectations this season, but to denounce them completely, call for them to be out of F1, or call them out of luck/past their prime/untalented is unfounded.

    Between the two of them they have 27 wins, 73 podiums, 33 poles, and 25 fastest laps.

    The reason for all this hullabaloo stems from their title fight in 2008 and the fact that they’ve come together no less than 4 times this season.

    I fully expect both McLaren and Ferrari to be closer to RedBull at the start of next season, with better cars under their belts I expect both of them to bounce back and give us what they used to provide; entertaining racing.

  21. Very nice COTD @Steph!

  22. Although he uses it to make another point, Felipe Has one thing right: there still are inconsistencies between steward decisions.
    I’d rather use that to express my thoughts: there have been occasions when penalties were given too easily.
    I was relieved yesterday when Hamilton didn’t get punished for à racing incident.

    But still à matter for Todt to fix.

  23. I don’t like it when people use this as a chance to have a go at Massa by calling him untalented, or undeserving, or whatever. This isn’t really about Massa’s raw speed, it’s about Massa believing that Hamilton needs to calm down behind the steering wheel.

    I recently read that Hamilton doesn’t think that he is doing anything wrong behind the wheel. By not identifying the first step to fixing his problem, I can’t see an end to his numerous collisions at the moment. Button has shown that if you push the McLaren to its limit, you can win in it. Hopefully Hamilton will get his act together soon and start showing just how good he really is.

    1. Excellent point. I couldn’t agree more with everything you just said.

    2. @slr If Massa believes Hamilton needs to learn from his driving errors, why does he keep leaving his car in the way of harm? Surely if Lewis is such a liability, then you give him a wide berth and pass him when you’ve got everything locked in. You don’t sit halfway on the racing line, behind another driver, and hope the other car melts out of your way.

      1. Massa constantly putting his car in the wrong place debatable, in Monaco and Singapore he did absolutely nothing wrong. In Japan he clearly didn’t expect Hamilton to turn left into him, I don’t think it was unreasonable of Massa to not expect such a thing. If Hamilton can’t see anything from his mirrors, then that’s something Hamilton and McLaren need to sort out.

        1. @slr The stewards were very specific about that:

          Lewis did not turn into Massa. He followed the exact same (racing) line that he did on the previous lap.

          I don’t think it was unreasonable of Massa to not expect such a thing.

          There was no reason for Massa to believe that just because he had left half of his car sitting around, Lewis was going to change his line, especially if Massa really believes that Lewis is a dangerous liablility. In fact, given his comments, he should have expected, very precisely, that Lewis would crash into him.

          Either way, Massa’s visor wasn’t blocked at the time so he could have backed out of the move whenever he wanted to (Like Button did). He didn’t.

  24. Hamilton’s issues aside, these comments from Massa do strike as having a certain amount of gamesmanship behind them.

  25. Why no mention that Robert Wickens won the World Series by Renault 3.5 Championship? And in a pretty crazy way too.

    I know some here think GP2 is the pinnacle of of the lower formula, but WSR 3.5 is where Vettel and Kubica came from, so not sure why it is so ignored.

  26. I’m disappointed with Hamilton, to be honest. Right now, he’s showing that he is not the driver I thought he would be, a true great like Ayrton and the other true “Racers Champions” of motorsport history. Button has completely outclassed him inside and outside the racing track over here. In a true Driver’s circuit, Button proved to be a true F1 Champion. I don’t particularly like “Prost-ish” drivers like Button, but here he trully deserves to be second in the World Championship. Lewis is a shadow of his former self. I hope he takes some time to think and recover his joy and passion for racing. Right now, he seems completely lost and looks like an average driver. Right now my attention is on Kamui Kobayashi: yes, he had a terrible start but he did the overtaking move of the day, in my opinion. Really, he deserves to be racing in a better car. The romantic in me is alsso really disappointed with Bruno. Not a “Senna” like performance at all. Petrov really outclassed him here.

    Found interesting that tweet from João Paulo Oliveira. i remember that race. Vettel came out of nowhere and got 3rd place. Back then, he looked like a kid! Was he, what, 16, 17? Very impressive. That race was won by… Lucas Di Grassi, after an almost last lap overtaking to no other than Robert Kubica, who was Furious at the end of the race. He dominated it but was overtaken at the penultimate lap (if I’m not mistaken) after a safety car period… That is the Macau GP for you!

    1. Putting aside all the Massa nonsense, have to agree with you in being disappointed with Hamilton. Some of the passion seems to have gone. There may be a lot of reasons for that but there’s no way he’ll get close to Senna’s achievements or even Vettel and Alonso if he doesn’t refocus. He needs that extremely difficult mixture of a touch less arrogance and more real confidence (rather than simple bravado) that comes with maturity. At the moment he just seems fairly lost.

  27. It’s almost like Massa likes to have an excuse to have a moan at Lewis.. It is probably why he positioned his car somewhere where he could instigate another contact. This way he can crush Lewis spirit like his own has been crushed!

  28. I didn’t think there was anything wrong with Vettel’s start. If JB wanted to have a go he should have cur across to the racing line and Seb wouldn’t have been able to chop him again, instead he insisted on a drag race. He never got any further than Vettel’s back wheels so there’s nothing dodgy about what he did in my view.

  29. Thanks very much Cari! :)

    I don’t get all the criticism of Massa. The same guy keeps hitting into him so of course he’s going to be annoyed. Let’s face it, Hamilton hasn’t been on his best form at the moment but the worst part of it is every incident involves another driver. They’ve not all been his fault but by now, I’m surprised Felipe is actually staying so calm as I’d have completely lost the plot. He was pumped up after Singapore and lost his temper in front of the cameras after Lewis ignored him which was unprofessional and I’m not saying it’s right but we get that all the time like when Seb did his crazy sign, Sutil and Trulli almost ended up in a punch up, Hamilton having a rant at Monaco. I take all of that with a pinch of salt because they’ve just been racing at intense speeds. After the race Massa came out and said he didn’t want a GDPA meeting about Hamilton’s driving but now he is after yet another incident. I don’t agree with him as I think Hamilton needs a talk with Mclaren more than anything especially as they had a breakdown in communication during qualifying and possibly the race if Hamilton wasn’t warned Massa was coming but he’s entitled to his opinion and it’s not like it’s unfounded.

    1. Well the good news is you won’t have to put up with all the anti-Massa sentiment for too much longer. Just four more races and we won’t hear any more about Massa.

    2. @steph Sure Felipe has some grounds to be annoyed that he keeps getting hit. But instead of just lashing out at another driver, he’s failing to ask himself a number of questions.

      1) Why is it that Lewis was able to deal with the front wing change, have a drive through, and still easily recover his race in Singapore, passing Massa on the way? Differences in car speed don’t account for it, because as usual Alonso was way up the field. Why does a bit of contact or damage utterly ruin Massa’s race, and leave him unable to recover, where other drivers are able to not only race on, but do well? He seems to break down and give up. Look at Button in Canada, or in Hungary, where he had significant rear wing damage.

      2) Why isn’t he being more careful around this “rogue” driver he’s complaining about? In Suzuka, he parked on the outside of the racing line, and was behind Lewis. He could see Lewis following the racing line into the corner. He didn’t have the speed to make a pass, but he didn’t back out of it or take evasive action. He just sat there. In the same situation, Button backed out, and made his move later, avoiding stupid contact and winning the race. Lewis has an argument “I can’t see out of these mirrors”, which you can believe or not. Massa doesn’t have any excuse that he couldn’t see, or avoid, what was obviously coming. All he had to do was say “This move isn’t going to work” and either move left, or back out and take the undercut. A better driver (Button or Alonso) would have done so. He did neither.

      3) Why does his engineer have to spend half the race telling him how to drive the car? We’re not talking about technical information, or recommendations about engine/diff settings, or the results of analysis from the strategy guys. We’re talking about “you need to brake later” and other mindboggling stuff.

      Lewis is making a number of stupid, avoidable errors this year. Massa, however, has fundamental flaws in both his driving and his mental state that he needs to address before he starts blaming everyone else for why he’s not doing well. 90% of Massa’s problems are his own. Lewis is around and about, but he’s not responsible for everything, much though Massa might want to think he is.

      1. Great post. I think Massa can be capable of good drives but he’s a real confidence driver and is very very unsure of himself at the moment. He’s been psyched out by Alonso and his confidence is v low. Think back to when Alonso passed Massa on the entry to the pits last year. If ever there was a statement of intent that was it. He’s never recovered since.

      2. @Hairs Massa’s speed or lack thereof isn’t the issue. It’s about the coming together between Massa and Hamilton. Massa hasn’t blamed Lewis for him not being as quick as Alonso, he hasn’t said Lewis has ruined his season, he’s just said that Lewis has crashed into him on a couple of occasions and it’s hurt his race which is accurate. If you want to debate Massa’s season I happily will at any time with you Hairs as you know I enjoy doing but I don’t see how it’s relevant to what Massa is saying here. We’re going to keep debating until the end of time, aren’t we? :P

        1. @steph The reason I bring Massa’s racing as a whole into is for two reasons:

          1) I don’t believe that Massa is 100% blameless in all these encounters, the one in Suzuka being the most obvious case of “No, you’re in the wrong there, Felipe.” That is not an attempt to absolve Lewis of his errors, it’s just a fact. Lewis has been stupid many many times this season. Other times he has just been unlucky. Other times, Massa has had at least 50% of the blame for the crash.

          2) This public lashing out at Lewis isn’t coming from nowhere. Other drivers have crashed into him, and he’s crashed into other drivers. Why isn’t he lashing out at them? I think that Massa has a number of other frustrations and problems – but this is the only one he can publicly talk about, or actually do anything about, and I think it’s no coincidence that the man he’s lashing out at is the man who pipped him to his one and only shot at glory in 2008. (Even if we disagree about his ability, it is a simple fact that as long as Alonso is in Ferrari, Massa will never be allowed to win a race, much less a championship. It’s also a fact that there are no other top-ranked teams that are going to take him on, when the likes of Hulkenberg are looking for a seat.) That’s sad, but it means that he’s going well overboard with his comments.

  30. I’m tired of Massa whining on the media about Lewis and about that accident it’s Massa`s fault. He couldn`t overtake there and he perfectly knew that noone looks at the mirrors in that particular point of the track.


      1. Spot on video. Whinge, moan, poke and shove people. Massa has no class IMO. If you poked Alonso or Hamilton like that in the pub little Massa would be staring at the ceiling. Easy to do it when you know you’re not going to get a reaction. Pathetic.

  31. Lets just get rid of penalties altogether, its a mans sport with racing incidents. Fine the drivers or something else. Watching grown up men whining ‘he should get a penalty’ is getting on my nerves quite frankly.

    1. @taurus So you want drivers ramming each other off the track without being punished? I’m afraid this isn’t a remotely realistic idea.

      1. Like I say, fine them. If it is clearly a blatant ramming, ie Schumacher in Jerez ’97, hand out one-race bans or disqualifications.

        A bit of contact is part of motorsport in my opinion, eg Dijon ’79. That quite rightly gets lauded as brilliant racing.

        1. News just in… Gilles Villeneuve handed 25-second post race penalty by the FIA after taking 32 years to review the footage. He has been demoted to 4th place a spokesman today confirmed.

          Renault driver René Arnoux was handed second place and is said to be “ecstatic” that justice has finally been served describing Villeneuve’s driving as “mindless” and going on to comment that the former Ferrari ace “just doesn’t learn”.

          Alan Jones is now classified 3rd and is said to be “decidedly nonplussed” with the podium result.

      2. I don’t think that drivers would crash into each other all the time if there were no penalties for doing that. There were times when there were no TV cameras that could have spotted every possible incident, yet drivers didn’t act so irresponsibly. Because they obviously 1) feared revenge 2) knew that they could crash themselves and get hurt or even worse.

        I don’t think we should get rid of penalties completely but reducing the number of them would only encourage more exciting racing.

  32. I really don’t see the relevance of having Massa’s form or speed brought into discussion.. This sort of incident is something Hamilton can easily avoid if he would just think a bit outside his 1.8m-wide McLaren and not put other drivers at risk, because this sort of collision in the braking zone for corners can be very dangerous, as it was with Diniz and Alesi in the 2000 German GP. And they weren’t exactly at the pointy end of the field, were they

  33. Massa should rethink why he’s in the sport again. I remember him saying that he would not race if he would be the #2 driver. Why is he still racing?

    With regards to Hamilton’s aggressive driving; yes he does drive quite aggressively, which doesn’t mean isn’t capable of preserving his tires. If I remember correctly, Hamilton preserved the tires much better last year than Button. So it’s not only the style, it’s also the set up, actually, it’s mainly the set up of the car.

    But again, let’s wait and see how the last four races unfold and draw our conclusions. While Button definitely has lifted his game I still believe that Hamilton is the faster (read: better driver).

  34. In my opinion the stewards were right regarding Hamilton and Massa, it was just a racing incident.

    Honestly what did Massa expect trying to go down the outside at the chicane like he did, it was always likely to end in contact with Hamilton, has Massa not learned from the events from the last few races. The only way Massa was going to get by Hamilton there would have been to cut the chicane and go off the circuit.

    If I didn’t know better I would have said Massa deliberately put his car there thinking that with everything Hamilton has done this season Hamilton would get out of the way rather than risk another coming together especially with Massa.

    Massa also makes reference to what happened in qualifying in Suzuka with Hamilton indicating that Hamilton was at fault again. At Singapore Massa criticised Hamilton for not waiting and making a gap and instead overtaking Massa in qualifying, yet at Suzuka Hamilton did wait and make a gap to the car in front of him and this caused Webber and Schumacher to both overtake Hamilton.

    It would be interesting to know what has been said in the driver briefings with regards to Hamilton and Massa, because it was reported that even after all the media attention on Schumacher’s moves at Monza nothing was said at the next driver meeting.

    When Alonso easily got by Massa early on, in the commentary Brundle and Coulthard wondered if Massa had let Alonso by again, and said that if Ferrari kept ordering him to do it will break Massa.

    Did any reporter attempt to ask Massa if he had let Alonso by or with everything else that happened did it get forgotten about?

    1. +1, Massa never learn how to keep a distance and back off …Uppsss, Lewis car always magnetized me !!

  35. Regarding the COTD from Steph, I think part of the reason Vettel made that move at the start was because Alonso squeezed him onto the grass back at Monza and no action was taken. Personally I think that both incidents were firm but fair.

    When Button and Vettel were talking before they went on the podium Button said something like “so that’s how we’re racing now is it” which said to me that if the positions are reversed in the future Button will shut the door on Vettel in the same way because a) Vettel thinks it is accepatable b) the stewards took no action.

    The same could be said of Schumacher’s moves on Hamilton at Monza. Hamilton and others may start to think those moves are now acceptable as Schumacher did not even receive a post race reprimand despite the driver steward Derek Daly saying later that he would have given Schumacher a penalty if he had seen the moves live.

  36. I had a lot of respect for Massa but He goes just a
    fraction along side a car following the raceing line and clips the back every one knows how bad the mirrors are and what chance does the driver stand ? non you can’t say it was on perpose unless you belive Massa is really trying to ruin Hamilton races the only one to benifit is Alonso can’t think why

  37. What was wrong with the grass?

    Vettel knowingly pushed Button (see onboards of his head movement), and Button took to the grass. Whether that was right or wrong, the stewards said play on. Massa could have done the same – he didn’t, they hit. Note Hamilton’s head movement – looking at the apex for the next turn in.

    Massa was coming from behind in a half-baked move on Hamilton. How many times have people been on this blog blaming Hamilton for crashes with the line “he was coming from behind, it’s his responsibility”? I suppose now its 100% his responsibility to know exactly what’s happening behind him, and Massa was just the innocent victim?

    While I don’t think Hamilton is totally blameless, I do think Massa needs to carry the lions share this time – and that a racing incident is probably the right call. Even though I suspect if the cars were reversed, Hamilton would have been penalised.

    Why did Massa try such a move anyway? He was never going to make that move stick. Why try something like that against someone you believe has it in for you at every event? Massa needs to worry about his own racing – but maybe that’s the issue. Let’s face it, Ferrari probably won’t be keeping him long giving his performances against his team mate.

    If you look at the different stewarding calls over the last few years, you have to admit other drivers get away with things Hamilton cannot dream of. I wouldn’t mind if they want to be harsh (although please, not too harsh – let’s not ruin the racing) but, they really needs to resolving stewarding consistency.

    And another thing, why are the arm-chair experts so quick to dismiss the “I didn’t see him in my mirrors” statement? I’ve driven a single seater – now I’m no racing driver and that car was nothing like an F1 car – but at 150mph+ when things start to vibrate, it does become pretty difficult see anything in tiny mirrors, even a “red blob”!

    Rant over ;)

  38. You may as well turn Formula 1 into one lifesized Scalextric track.

    With the way in which some people moan about moves and incidents…you’d think that they want Formula 1 to become a real-life scalextric event with cars following each other around.

    I guess they would also prefer that when any car goes off track….the race can be paused and a giant version of bernie’s hand comes over to pick up the cars and place them back on their tracks.

    The days of raw close quarter racing, wheel-banging and the tests of sheer bravery which set driver skill apart is now long gone.

    -Formula 1 has been ruined and it will only get worse.

  39. I was surprised Hamilton did not get a penalty for the Massa incident, and I cannot blame Felipe for being upset. Lewis appears like a man who cannot wait for this season to end, it has been a stinker in more ways than one, and is not getting any better.
    I buy into the theory that it is a mental thing with Lewis. When everything is going his way he looks everybit the superstar driver the majority say he is. He’s exciting when he is on top of his game, he takes risks and passes where others do not, and does it with style. There has always been an arrogance in his driving, a do or die move over or we a going to crash mentality that few drivers possess. However, that is great when it works!
    At the moment he reminds me of Kimi Raikkonen in 2008. Every grands prix you a waiting to see the flash of the old genius you know is there but fails to show itself. In that ofcourse, I am not saying Raikkonen was crashing into everybody three years ago, but he was certainly at best mediocre and not himself.
    Hamilton has not figured in the 2011 world championship for awhile now, yet his team mate has. It must hurt him to see Vettel win back to back titles at such a young age, to become the youngest ever double champion, a feat Lewis obviously thought he would have accomplished by now. Its all a far cry from 2007/2008 when he had the world by the balls and the full might of the McLaren team behind him, safe in the knowledge that he was their ‘star’ driver.
    He needs to spend this winter ponduring his future and how to get back to winning ways. He needs to focus on one thing first for 2012, and that is beating Jenson Button. He has to forget the other drivers for awhile, and remind McLaren and the world of the Lewis we expect to see and want to see. Once he has done this, then he can go after the others and think about championships again.
    Massa is quite right about one thing, Hamilton is not learning from his mistakes. And it is not Massa who is hurting through these errors, but Lewis himself. If he learns, he can be that eye catching driver he was. If not, how long will it be before McLaren lose patience with him?

    1. I think to be fair to Lewis…he is not being allowed to move on and learn as the media dont allow him to get over it by constantly dragging up old news in his face.
      In japan he shouldve been allowed to focus on the GP but he was being swamped with reminders of the previous race 2 weeks before even though he wisely stayed away from commenting on it since Singapore.

      Yes Lewis needs to learn just like every driver before him inc all the greats. He is still only in his 5th season and will learn….but the media have been quite unfair on him as they love having a villain to keep beating up all the time.

      I believe that the harsher the lessons..the stronger you become. I think that the only time Lewis will get some peace and the time to toughen up will be once the season is over..not before as the media will continue to jump on his back before then and continue stirring up.

      1. the media dont allow him to get over it by constantly dragging up old news in his face.

        This is just lazy media-bashing.

        Hamilton stalked out of Singapore refusing to talk about his last silly prang. It’s hardly a surprise he would face questions about it at the next opportunity the F1 media had to put them to him, which of course was in Japan.

        He has no-one to blame but himself on this count.

        1. So Keith, is this the reason why you seem to bash Hamilton?

          More than often you’ve claimed to state facts and although you won’t admit and you don’t have to since it’s a blog. Maybe Hamilton doesn’t want to be dragged into a media-war with other drivers about incidents of last races and just move on.

          Despite stated above, I still enjoy read your articles and comments posted on the blog :-)

          1. @am I haven’t got anything against Hamilton and I’ve no idea what you’re referring to when you say “you seem to bash Hamilton”. Perhaps you could supply some examples.

  40. I was a bit surprised to see Mark wasn’t with the Red Bull team celebrating which is bad form and bad PR.

    Team mates are never there for the celebrations, unless they also got a podium to celebrate. I’ve noted this in all teams except maybe Mclaren (because both men are british I guess, and it works somehow).

  41. my sister used to have a doll that sound just like massa…

    …every time you pulled the cord on its back

    boo-hoo-hoo-hoo -hoo

  42. OmarR-Pepper (@)
    10th October 2011, 17:29

    Talking about nicknames, @mark, probably we can nickname lewis as LEWIS HARMilton

    1. and massa can be know as SPEED-BUMP from here on

  43. @Keith Collantine:

    I don’t have any examples and it’s not like you are doing it explicitly. It’s just the way you react on posts from fellow users regarding Hamilton. But next time I’ve got the impression you’re ‘bashing’ Hamilton, I’ll let you know.

    1. @am

      I don’t have any examples

      Perhaps think twice the next time you accuse someone of “bashing” with nothing to back it up.

      1. Probably not bashing per se, but I recall reading your race report and noting that you didn’t mention anything about the puncture Lewis suffered that had a knock-on effect on the rest of his race. Here’s what you said:

        But within nine laps Hamilton was struggling for grip. He ran wide at Spoon curve and Button was instantly through into second place. Alonso hounded the McLaren as Hamilton dived for the pits.

        Thought a fairer assessment would have included the fact that he had a puncture and was on older tyres than the rest of the front-runners. You’re still my favourite F1 blogger though… :-)

        1. @sebsronnie I try not to assume things that aren’t necessarily proven.

          Even McLaren took care in their press release to say Hamilton “appeared” to suffer a puncture – they did not say conclusively that he definitely had one.

          See: McLaren: Button pleased to win on ‘Red Bull track’

      2. As I mentioned I don’t have any examples (I’ve got other things to do besides collecting evidence to prove your wrong :-) ). It’s not like I’m suggesting you’re not entitled to an opinion, it’s just a trend I’ve noticed. Anyways, do as you like, it’s your blog, but perhaps you should thinks twice before suggesting you’ve nothing against Hamilton since I’m not the first one mentioning it.

        1. @am

          It’s not like I’m suggesting you’re not entitled to an opinion

          No you aren’t – you said I “bash” him, which suggest I hold a grudge against him and regularly have a go at him.

          This is not my attitude towards Hamilton or any other driver and you have nothing that says otherwise.

          1. Keith, I stated “bash” like this, cause it’s not really bashing. Again, and this is my last reply reagarding this, it’s your comments and the way you use the info (like not mentioning the slow puncture). See it as free feedback and do whatever you like with it (or not!).

  44. This whole Massa/Hamilton saga is getting tiring. The stewards investaged and deemed it a racing incident. This is not what some people might want to hear but at least the stewards gave us the reason for their decision. It’s begining to sound as if Massa is looking for excuses for his abismal performance. It’s time for Massa to focus on his own performance and stop moaning. The fact that his engineer has to come on the radio to tell him how to take corners on race track tells you where Massa is at the moment.

    Nigel also needs to keep his opinion to himself. He is a steward and so making such comments will only make any punishment he dishes out questionable.

  45. Keith, you need to take the viewers of members of this blog on board. I remember a couple of weeks ago someone made the same suggestion that being the moderator of this blog its best if you don’t take stance even though you are allowed to have an opinion. I’ve made that comment about you not being a fan of hamilton purely because of some of the comments you’ve made on some of the posts on here.

  46. That Ted Kravitz behind the scenes video is really nice (here for non UK viewers, like myself), it has a bit on Red Bull, Newey and the team, some nice parts about Button and McLaren and a poor Massa as well.

  47. “Back in 05 Macau F3 GP I was really annoyed by a certain rookie driver who knocked me out of a podium. Now that guy is 2x F1 world champion.”

    These are the things I like. :’) Who knows who will be world champion of the current rookies!

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