Changing conditions hinder Hamilton but help Button

47 comments on “Changing conditions hinder Hamilton but help Button”

1. 

   dam00r (@dam00r)
   12th November 2011, 15:59

   Hamilton lost alot of time between second and third corner because he ran wide there and also had to drive to the right hand side corner to get a better turn in to the fourth corner
   1. 

      raymondu999 (@raymondu999)
      12th November 2011, 16:27

      Why did he run wide? That would be the question
      1. 

         dam00r (@dam00r)
         12th November 2011, 16:46

         probably came in wrong around turn 1 and had a poor angle through turn 2 I guess?
         1. 

            raymondu999 (@raymondu999)
            12th November 2011, 17:26

            My point was that sure; you could say that Hamilton had the pace for pole; but the thing is he made mistakes on his lap.
            1. 

               Nick
               12th November 2011, 19:55

               Exactly lol the guy above was just stating where he lost time, I noticed him run wide there as well and that probably cost him pole. End of the day a clean lap gets you pole, that’s all. Without his mistakes, he definitely would make them 0.18 deficit to seb.. As shown in his Q2 pace, albeit in marginal temperature differences
   2. 

      AdrianMorse (@adrianmorse)
      12th November 2011, 18:41

      In addition to his disappointing first sector, Hamilton also lost more than a tenth in the second sector compared to his first Q3 effort (being more than 0.25s down on Button by that time), so I feared he would slip to P4, if Webber and Vettel would also improve. It turned out that Webber didn’t improve, and I was stunned that he managed to get all that time back from Jenson. Even without looking at the sector times (I was watching at a friend’s place) if was under no illusion that he was going to beat Vettel to pole.

      For Hamilton’s fans – and for those who long to see someone other than Vettel on pole – it’s a shame that Hamilton is not as good as Vettel at putting in those final Q3 laps. In Hungary this year we also saw that Hamilton had the pace to take pole, but he produced a messy second Q3 lap, whereas Vettel habitually improves by a few tenths on his second lap.
   3. 

      Becken Lima (@becken-lima)
      13th November 2011, 0:44

      @dam00r

      I watched it 4 times and still cant see a mistake from Lewis in his last Q3 lap:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCAmWBb1t_A

      It was a very standard lap, so I think Keith is right: changeable conditions hindered Hamilton!
      1. 

         UKFan (@)
         13th November 2011, 1:10

         Thats from 2010 you are a year late buddy.
         1. 

            Roberto (@roberto)
            13th November 2011, 2:01

            ROFL!
2. 

   BasCB (@bascb)
   12th November 2011, 16:00

   Would be interesting if the race saw changing fortunes and a tight field up front like today!
3. 

   Fixy (@)
   12th November 2011, 16:12

   When I thought Jenson was going to be on pole I was so disappointed to see Lewis beat him by so little! Then Seb took a greater margin.
   I’m diasppointed by Massa and Liuzzi.
   1. 

      dam00r (@dam00r)
      12th November 2011, 16:16

      Button should’ve done better. Hamilton was 0.149s after Button in Sector 1. but HAM was faster than BUT over the finish line. So what was Button doing in S2 and S3? Not an Class A driver as Hamilton
      1. 

         Aced (@)
         12th November 2011, 16:25

         So by that logic Hamilton was not a Class A driver in the first sector and Button was not a Class A driver in the 2nd and 3rd sector. Is that what you’re saying?
         1. 

            dam00r (@dam00r)
            12th November 2011, 16:45

            No. Hamilton pushes and Button is just driving too comfortably
            1. 

               raymondu999 (@raymondu999)
               12th November 2011, 17:28

               Apparently the pushing was only worth 0.009s
            2. 

               David-A (@david-a)
               12th November 2011, 18:05

               Don’t be silly @dam00r . “Driving too comfortably” has Button 38 points and 1 win ahead, with two more mechanical DNFs.
4. 

   Jackbrabhamfan
   12th November 2011, 16:16

   And Alonso matched Q2 his time! There is no reason to believe that Lewis would not have matched his Q2 time which was faster than Vettel’s pole winning lap.

   The fact is as the BBC commentators noted Button and Lewis were sent one after the other and this move contrasted unfavorably with the Red Bull strategy. TO make it worse Alonso got in between Jenson and Lewis.

   I cannot understand for the life of me, why Mclaren would send a guy who was .63 seconds slower in Q2 just ahead of the guy who set the fastest lap of the weekend. And didn’t have the foresight to that Alonso would slot in between Lewis and Jenson.
   1. 

      raymondu999 (@raymondu999)
      12th November 2011, 16:23

      Hamilton was far enough behind Alonso and Button to not be affected by dirty air.
   2. 

      91jb12 (@91jb12)
      12th November 2011, 18:32

      don’t go blaming mclaren, there were 4 seconds between the Ferrari and Hamilton, he simply didn’t get the most out of the car when it mattered, likewise Button as well.
5. 

   JackBrabhamfan
   12th November 2011, 16:30

   From the headline, one would assume that Button beat Hamilton!
   1. 

      Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
      12th November 2011, 16:56

      You might, I wouldn’t.
      1. 

         JackBrabhamFan
         12th November 2011, 18:08

         Of course you wouldn’t! Its your post!
         1. 

            svingoville
            13th November 2011, 3:51

            i thought i was the only one that headline i think is not the best one although keith will argue all day long
      2. 

         UKFan (@)
         13th November 2011, 1:00

         thats because Keith is a great journalist also, we all assume that Hamilton is quicker than Button especially after the FPS.
         1. 

            svingoville
            13th November 2011, 3:55

            sure he is that’s why we all come here but it don’t mean all the headlines are great does it?
   2. 

      aka_robyn (@)
      12th November 2011, 17:05

      See, what I would assume from the headline is that the changing conditions helped Button improve his time, whereas the opposite happened to Hamilton. And…oh, hey, what do you know!
      1. 

         JackBrabhamFan
         12th November 2011, 18:14

         Hey, what do we all know? Though the fact remains that the BBC crew questioned the Mclaren strategy as soon as the final run started and contrasted unfavorable with the Red Bull strategy. . And I assume they know what they are talking about!
         1. 

            aka_robyn (@)
            12th November 2011, 18:28

            No, I meant “what do you know” as an expression that means something like “Oh, and hey, I was right, surprisingly enough!” Slight miscommunication, there, I think…
            1. 

               aka_robyn (@)
               12th November 2011, 18:29

               Maybe it’s an American thing…
            2. 

               UKFan (@)
               13th November 2011, 1:08

               you were using an expression and JackBrabhamFan used the same with a slight tense difference. I believe that you are a bit confused with yourself.
            3. 

               aka_robyn (@)
               13th November 2011, 1:59

               @ukfanatic No, I think he thought I was asking what he actually knew, when I was just using the phrase as an exclamation that didn’t mean anything like that.

               I’m also led to believe he didn’t know what I meant by the fact that he mentioned the BBC crew, which had nothing whatsoever to do with what I was talking about. I was talking about the interpretation of Keith’s headline, and that’s it!
6. 

   Younger Hamii (@younger-hamii)
   12th November 2011, 17:28

   There’s always something that costs Hamilton pole & gives it to Vettel every single time,I dont think its any changes to Track Temperatures or Cars,Maybe its due to Vettel having a clean track to himself(sent out last) & having More Rubber(Grip) layed for him,from his other pole contenders.
   1. 

      Roberto (@roberto)
      13th November 2011, 1:25

      You’re right it’s neither of those things..it’s the fact that Vettel is just better then Hamilton.. especially in setting fastest laps when it counts..
      1. 

         bearforce1 (@bearforce1)
         13th November 2011, 2:21

         I think Lewis is also starting to think the same, that Vettel is better than he is.
7. 

   laird18
   12th November 2011, 18:59

   Once again Schumacher was the best part of a second off Rosberg’s pace today. Yet, once again, his failings have been largely covered up by the unique pace of his Mercedes: considerably slower than the front runners, but well ahead of the mid-field.

   If Schumacher were in a mid-field team (e.g. the Force India) he wouldn’t be making it through Q1, never mind challenging the top 10. Schumacher needs to move over and give someone more deserving a chance. His return to F1 appears increasingly gratuitous.
   1. 

      David-A (@david-a)
      12th November 2011, 19:39

      His qualifying has been poor, but his race pace has been good enough to warrant his place in the Mercedes-Benz.
      1. 

         Postreader
         12th November 2011, 21:28

         One claims Button isn’t an A class driver because Hamilton supposedly “pushed”. The other wants out a racer who has some 93% of the points of a racer many consider to be one one of the best in the grid.

         And one would think F1 wound attract viewers who are able to pass minimum intelligence standards.
         1. 

            Roberto (@roberto)
            13th November 2011, 1:29

            leave lard alone.. obviously the only thing which matters in F1 is the qualifying pace and since Schumi is behind Rosberg he needs to leave F1 NOW.. ok.. let’s get back to reality now..
   2. 

      Estesark (@estesark)
      13th November 2011, 1:20

      I don’t exactly know why, but I’ve warmed to Schumacher recently, having never liked him before. When I was much younger, he was Mika Häkkinen’s great rival, and when I was a teenager, he was dominating the sport in a way that I found extremely boring. When he came out of retirement, I thought it was a mistake, and on a Guardian article where everyone in the comments section was raving about his return, I predicted he wouldn’t win a race in the first two years, and probably wouldn’t even get onto the podium. It looks like I am almost certainly going to be proved right, but strangely I take no joy in that. I am actually willing him on these days.

      I think I have come to respect him for his continuing and complete dedication to the sport, which can’t always be easy with a poor car underneath him, especially at his age. I’ve not heard him complain once, about anything, since he made his comeback, and he just seems to be getting on with it quietly and efficiently. His qualifying performances haven’t been great, but in the races, he is matching Nico Rosberg’s pace and has finished higher than his team-mate quite a few times recently. I think the end of next year will be the right time for him to (re-)retire, and he won’t do so as a world champion, but I think just about everyone would love to see him win a race before then. I think it would bring a smile to my face, as well as his.
      1. 

         Roberto (@roberto)
         13th November 2011, 1:35

         great comment.. good to see some sensible ones in midst of all this blind fanaticism..
      2. 

         Bernification (@bernification)
         13th November 2011, 2:35

         I feel the same Estesak, to an extent. He seems to have not learnt that competition has to be fair (Hungary, Reubens) but i wanted to believe that he was THAT good that age would not be a defining factor.
         Maybe his ruthlessness overrides his skill, maybe the clout of Ferrari was the defining factor, maybe the team of Brawn, Byrne and Schumy was like the Beatles- right time, right place, right people. We will never know.

         All I know is that Red bull are the Beatles of now- for this read Williams or McLaren of the 90’s.

         All I know is Adrian Newey is damn good at what he does. How early did Seb open the flap on the last corner to get pole? Jenson tried the same earlier and oversteered- not his favourite place to be.
      3. 

         Estesark (@estesark)
         13th November 2011, 10:39

         Thanks for the positive feedback on my comment. I should just add that the Mika Häkkinen reference was because I am half-Finnish, and Häkkinen is my all-time favourite F1 driver :)

         Bernification, I think Schumacher learnt from that incident with Rubens Barrichello, or at the very least, he was shrewd enough to notice the hugely negative reaction to what he did, and won’t do it again. If you look at his scrap with Lewis Hamilton in Italy, he could perhaps be accused of making two moves while defending corners, but both drivers managed to keep it clean and fair. By the by, I was very encouraged to see so much patience from Hamilton in that race – with the championship already gone, I thought he could use the rest of the season as a learning experience, without having to take unnecessary risks – but then Whitmarsh had to come out and say that he wants the old Hamilton back, prompting him to crash into Felipe Massa at the next race in Singapore, and a handful of times since then as well!
8. 

   mole (@mole)
   12th November 2011, 19:15

   Strange Hamilton is running less wing, but was slower than the higher winged Button in the straights of the first 2 sectors, and faster in the downforce dependent bit at the end
9. 

   AdrianMorse (@adrianmorse)
   12th November 2011, 19:30

   What surprised me was that at least Hamilton and perhaps some others didn’t try to do Q2 on mediums. Ok, it might not have worked out because of the red flag, but they couldn’t have known that. Hamilton’s 1m39.7s from Q1, set at the end of a lengthy run, was well within the Q3 cutoff. Perhaps tyre-wear is not that crucial here, but I nevertheless feel that a fresh set of softs is something special in this Pirelli age.
10. 

    Mustalainen (@mustalainen)
    12th November 2011, 22:58

    Heikki out-qualifying Jarno again, and this time with almost a second. Great stuff from Heikki! One more year with Lotus (Caterham) and then I’d like him to move to a more competitive team unless they improve significantly.
11. 

    marcusbreese (@marcusbreese)
    13th November 2011, 11:20

    Williams are going to be starting 23rd and 24th…and it is barely the drivers fault at all. I bet they can’t WAIT for the season to end.
12. 

    AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
    13th November 2011, 12:34

    This analysis just goes to show that tyres really could liven this race up, perhaps more so than most. We will have to keep an eye out for mid to late tyre changes where the temperature drop may catch some drivers out.

Comments are closed.