Massa makes 100 Ferrari starts but no podium

81 comments on “Massa makes 100 Ferrari starts but no podium”

1. 

   Journeyer (@journeyer)
   28th November 2011, 9:51

   It’s a scary thought that Vettel will almost definitely have the 3rd-most poles of all time by next year. All time! And he’d just be… 25?
   1. 

      daykind (@)
      28th November 2011, 9:52

      I was just thinking that. Its mental.
   2. 

      Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
      28th November 2011, 10:19

      The impressive thing is he’s not just getting it by dint of making more starts, he’s not far off Senna’s strike rate.

      Of course you need a car that’s capable of it, but as we saw recently it’s not as if he’s driving an FW14B:

      Vettel and Mansell’s 14 pole positions in a season compared

      It is a shame that the ‘race fuel qualifying’ disrupts the statistics for part of Schumacher’s peak, though. At least they got rid of it in the end.
      1. 

         BasCB (@bascb)
         28th November 2011, 10:27

         Off course Schumacher’s strike rate is going down now with every race as well (he is down by almost 5% since his comback).
      2. 

         APSANCOC
         29th November 2011, 3:51

         To be honest the most interesting statistic out of all of that is…

         Ferrari 25.99%
         McLaren 24.89%
         Red Bull 21.43%

         Williams 19.76%
         Lotus 14.93%
         Renault 11.67%
         Benetton 10.38%
         Brabham 8.88%

         Ferrari and McLaren are the only two teams to have higher wins per starts. It just shows how competitive Red Bull have been, especially given that they didn’t get a win till their 5’s car. In other words out of their 7 cars to date, 4 didn’t win anything. So 42.8% of their cars have had such a high number of wins that they have boosted RBR’s ratio from 0% up to the 3rd highest with less than half their cars!

         To put it another way

         It has been 53 races since RBR’s first win (China 2009), since then they have won 27, or more than half (50.9%) of the races! And that’s including that Brawn thing!

         In the past two season’s (the start of the ‘dominance’ period, even including the stuff ups in 2010), they have won 21 out of 38 races!

         I find that to be by far more interesting that Vettel winning or putting the car on pole as it shows just how dominant the car has been.
         1. 

            Gridlock (@gridlock)
            30th November 2011, 16:40

            You’re forgetting to add in Stewart and Jaguar’s race starts to the Red Bull percentage, I think. It’s not a fair comparison really.
            1. 

               David-A (@david-a)
               2nd December 2011, 9:33

               But then you’d have some confusion over the mess that is Tyrell/BAR/Honda/Brawn/Mercedes. You’d also have Renault who competed in the 70’s/80’s and pulled out in 1985. But at the same time there was Toleman competing, who were taken over by Benetton and then Renault. Oh, but now they’re Lotus, who have also been at the back of the grid and are about to become Caterham.

               Red Bull just isn’t Stewart or Jaguar.
         2. 

            F1fanNL (@)
            30th November 2011, 21:12

            Without Vettel, that would have been about 10 out of 38.

            Your point?
   3. 

      KoolKieren (@koolkieren)
      28th November 2011, 10:44

      I respect that this is a good statistic, but you have to feel that when there is was no other car that is capable of challenging for pole for the majority of races this statistic is being given to him.
      1. 

         BasCB (@bascb)
         28th November 2011, 10:47

         Something that was pretty much true for Mansell as well, and Senna in his two strongest years as well (doubt its been much different for the other top pole setters, at least for part of their career)
      2. 

         Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
         28th November 2011, 10:51

         @koolkieren As I just said, though, that’s not always been the case this year. Look at Suzuka, for example. It’s easy to over-state the advantage Vettel’s had, and overlook the fact that he’s not the only driver with an RB7 at his disposal. Indeed, the other guy used to be considered something of a one-lap specialist.
         1. 

            91jb12 (@91jb12)
            28th November 2011, 11:36

            absolutely, I don’t think Webber has ‘lost it’ all of a sudden. his lap on saturday was very good (as he said)
         2. 

            APSANCOC
            29th November 2011, 3:55

            Webber used to be considered a one lap specialist with Michilin’s with grooves. Lost it a bit Bridgestones, lost it a bit with slicks, lost it massively with Pirelli’s.

            His lap on saturday showed he has been learning and improving the tyres, although one has to note who the teammates are. Patrease wasn’t exactly challenging Mansell. Webber hasn’t been. Prost was more of a race over one lap.
2. 

   daykind (@)
   28th November 2011, 9:52

   Thanks Keith for all your brilliant facts and stats articles after every race – the highlight of the weekend :D
   1. 

      Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
      28th November 2011, 10:16

      @daykind You’re welcome! It wouldn’t be post-race-Monday without one.
   2. 

      smifaye (@)
      28th November 2011, 10:25

      The highlight of the post-race surely? The race should be the highlight ;)
      1. 

         daykind (@)
         28th November 2011, 11:02

         @smifaye Well after yesterday’s race I’m not sure ;)
   3. 

      Fixy (@)
      28th November 2011, 16:43

      Massa led at Interlagos in his 100th race with Ferrari!
3. 

   Marco_ferrari
   28th November 2011, 10:03

   “The last Ferrari driver to go an entire season without finishing on the podium was Didier Pironi in 1981”

   What about Ivan Capelli? Or is it here the keyword “entire”? :)
   1. 

      Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
      28th November 2011, 10:09

      Exactly. Capelli didn’t do an entire season in 1992 – he was replaced by Nicola Larini for the last two races.
      1. 

         BasCB (@bascb)
         28th November 2011, 10:24

         Well, that should keep Massa on guard!
         1. 

            Estesark (@estesark)
            28th November 2011, 15:03

            I was revising physics last night and came across the term “hidas massa”, which means “inertial mass” in English. But “hidas” means slow, so it’s basically Slow Massa :)

            Might have to start calling him “Inertia” from now on.
4. 

   BasCB (@bascb)
   28th November 2011, 10:21

   I always love these statistics articles. Surely the most points ever were also scored, due to the current points system. The spead in points this year was really pretty little, a big chunk of it was only the first 5 in the Championship.
   1. 

      Jelle van der Meer (@)
      28th November 2011, 11:22

      Shame that Keith actually missed that one – counting all races of a year and ignoring different point systems – Vettel has the 2nd highest % point score possible.

      2002 MSC scored 144 out of 170 = 84.7%
      2011 Vettel scored 392 out of 475 = 82.5%
      2004 MSC scored 148 out of 180 = 82.2%

      A 4th place in Abu Dahbi would have been sufficient as Vettel comes 11 points short to beat MSC % of 2002
      1. 

         91jb12 (@91jb12)
         28th November 2011, 11:39

         under the 2002 system Vettel had 147/190 at 77.3%
         under the 2004 system he had 161/190 at 84.7%
      2. 

         DavidJH (@davidjh)
         28th November 2011, 13:30

         Back in the days when not all points counted to the championship and points could be dropped (so that a driver wouldn’t be penalised too much because of unreliability) Jim Clark scored all 54 possible championship points in a single season.
         1. 

            DavidJH (@davidjh)
            28th November 2011, 13:32

            Clark actually did this twice, in 63 and 65 and Ascari also scored 100% of possible points in 1952.
         2. 

            Jelle van der Meer (@)
            28th November 2011, 14:15

            @DavidJH Hence my starting comment counting all races of a year.

            @91jb12 MSC in 2002 would have had 91.8% with 2004 point system. 11x win, 5x 2nd and 1x 3rd
            Vettel has 11x wins, 5x 2nd, 1x 3rd, 1x 4th and 1x DNF
            1. 

               Ilanin (@ilanin)
               28th November 2011, 14:29

               But it’s nonsense to count all of the races in a year when the points systems in place at the time didn’t.
            2. 

               Guilherme (@guilherme)
               28th November 2011, 15:37

               @ilanin

               Why? They have completed those races, and they were still part of the championship, but the ruled at the time simply ignored the worst results. If you want to compare how these drivers performed over the course of the season, then you have to count all the races.
            3. 

               PJ (@)
               28th November 2011, 22:20

               How about Vettel’s average finishing position?
5. 

   AdrianMorse (@adrianmorse)
   28th November 2011, 10:27

   With regard to McLaren’s last pole position in 2000, it is surprising that if you look at the races since 2007 (my memory of earlier races is too hazy), they have struggled at this track, with the possible exception of 2009.
6. 

   smifaye (@)
   28th November 2011, 10:27

   Should the pole position table, where Mansell is at the top have the column “Poles” instead of “starts”?
   1. 

      Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
      28th November 2011, 10:52

      It should, fixed it.
7. 

   RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
   28th November 2011, 11:17

   Looking back at Prost’s stats, he’s ‘only’ got 33 poles out of 199 starts but 13 our of 16 in 1993. 51 wins but at the end of his first career he only had a pole percentage of 10.9 (20/183). I think this shows what a great racer Prost was, and that racecraft is as importantly as raw pace.
8. 

   Andrew81 (@andrew81)
   28th November 2011, 11:24

   Four of the last five races were won from second on the grid.

   Webber’s win ends the 25-race run of races being won by the same four drivers (Vettel, Button, Hamilton, Alonso). This means it fell one short of the record (26 races between Portugal 1987 and US 1989, won by Prost, Senna, Berger and Mansell) and is joint second with Japan 2006-Monaco 2008 (Alonso, Massa, Raikkonen, Hamilton).

   The quintet of Webber, Button, Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso have collectively won the last 42 races. The last driver other than these five to win was Barrichello in Italy 2009. There is still some way to go for the record to be broken, as it stands at 53 (Brazil 1986-US 1989, won by Piquet, Senna, Prost, Mansell and Berger).

   Similarly, the dominance of Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari in this 42-race period is the third longest by three teams. The record stands at 58 races, set by Benetton, McLaren and Williams between Japan 1990 and Britain 1994. If the status quo continues throughout 2012, both records could be broken.
   1. 

      matt90 (@matt90)
      28th November 2011, 12:30

      Webber ruined what would have been a ‘perfect’ season. Up until yesterday every race had been won by an existing champion, something which has never happened before in F1.
   2. 

      Alex (@)
      28th November 2011, 18:44

      Wow – that really puts into perspective how far ahead of the other teams the current front-runners are. I really wouldn’t have thought that, by some measures, the RB/McLaren/Ferrari unit we have at the front is amongst the most dominant F1 has ever seen!

      It also makes it a bit more understandable that the smaller teams are taking a while to find their feet. In this era of reasonably low car development (frozen engines, strict aero etc.), it’s just that much harder to make it up through the pack.
9. 

   Jim1601 (@jim1601)
   28th November 2011, 11:38

   I love these stats articles, satisfies the f1 geek in me!!
10. 

    Bleu (@bleu)
    28th November 2011, 12:12

    Webber was first driver since Montoya (2004) to take his only victory in the final race of the season. In total it has been done 15 times now, but many of them happened when there were less races. When the season has had at least 15 Grand Prix (since 1973 with the exception of 1975 and 1980), it was eighth time:

    1976 Andretti
    1978 Villeneuve
    1982 Alboreto
    1983 Patrese
    1994 Mansell
    1997 Häkkinen
    2004 Montoya
    2011 Webber
    1. 

       Arun
       30th November 2011, 18:48

       I think you missed out on Vettel who won only once race last year which was the last race.
       1. 

          F1fanNL (@)
          30th November 2011, 21:16

          And Malaysia, Valencia, Japan and Brazil.
11. 

    tobinen (@tobinen)
    28th November 2011, 12:14

    Did I hear Coulthard correctly when he said that Rubens Barrichello has started a third of all F1 starts?
    1. 

       tobinen (@tobinen)
       28th November 2011, 12:15

       edit * F1 Races *
    2. 

       Enigma (@enigma)
       28th November 2011, 12:36

       @tobinen I’m not sure of the exact percentage but the Singapore GP in 2008 was F1’s 800th race, and Spa 2010 was Barrichello’s 300th. So he’s at around 325 and F1’s had some 860 races or so, which means he’s started more than a third of all races, yes. 19 out of 62 seasons is already nearly a third, plus there’s more races than there used to be.
    3. 

       KaIIe (@kaiie)
       28th November 2011, 13:00

       Yeah, it’s about right. Rubens has started in 322 races and there have been 858 races in total, making the percentage as high 37.5%. Pretty amazing.
12. 

    Bleu (@bleu)
    28th November 2011, 12:14

    Also I see it quite funny that three times in last four races (Korea, India, Brazil) fastest lap has been set by the winner on the final lap, while I don’t remember it happening very much before.
    1. 

       F1fanNL (@)
       30th November 2011, 21:20

       That clearly shows the teams and more importantly, the drivers no longer fear the tires will fall off the cliff.

       Pirelli! Time to make those tires out of used toilet paper!!
13. 

    McLarenFanJamm (@mclarenfanjamm)
    28th November 2011, 12:16

    Don’t Virgin/Marussia share the record for most starts without a point with Team Lotus/Caterham/Air Asia/Fernandes Racing?
14. 

    GameR_K (@gamer_k)
    28th November 2011, 12:47

    Only the second time WEB has finished ahead of SEB, when both have finished this season. BUT did it 7 times, and MAS twice.
    Out of a total opoints for all the races (19*101) VET has 392 out of 1919, which itself is 20.4%.
    If the constructors points for teams below top 3 is taken, they outscore VET by only 5 points.
    RedBull had only 2 mechanical DNF’s over the entire season.
    Also SEB is the only driver to not pit for a front wing change during a race in the entire season *unless someone comes up with some other name*
    1. 

       raymondu999 (@raymondu999)
       28th November 2011, 14:48

       Has Webber pitted for a front wing? Rbr had 1 mech retirement this year no? Webber in Monza wasn’t mech
       1. 

          GameR_K (@gamer_k)
          28th November 2011, 16:39

          He tried to pit, but just that the car was already on the crane. So just 1 mechanical retirement for RBR.
15. 

    sato113 (@sato113)
    28th November 2011, 12:54

    great stats keith! how about goodbye to team lotus as well?
    1. 

       DVC (@dvc)
       28th November 2011, 22:49

       Is it goodbye, or is the brand just switching teams?
       1. 

          sato113 (@sato113)
          3rd December 2011, 14:14

          no because team lotus is different to group lotus (who will be the new renault team)
16. 

    PJ (@)
    28th November 2011, 13:13

    I was thinking during the Grand Prix… when was the last time that a podium didn’t contain a Red Bull, McLaren or Ferrari?
    1. 

       GeoCucc (@geocucc)
       28th November 2011, 14:20

       It was at the 2009 Malaysian GP with Brawn, BMW and Toyota.
    2. 

       Ilanin (@ilanin)
       28th November 2011, 14:24

       Malaysia 2009 (Button in a Brawn, Heidfeld in a BMW, Glock in a Toyota), or, if you insist on it not being a half-race, Australia 2009 – two Brawns (Button, Barrichello) and a Toyota (Trulli).
    3. 

       Cacarella (@cacarella)
       28th November 2011, 15:28

       @pjtierney Austrailia & Malaysia this year (2011) both had a Renault on the podium.
    4. 

       Cacarella (@cacarella)
       28th November 2011, 15:32

       Also in 2010, Robert Kubica (Renault) was on the podium 3 times – two thirds and a second,
       Nico Rosberg (Mercedes) was on 3 times – the third places.
       1. 

          JerseyF1 (@jerseyf1)
          28th November 2011, 15:51

          @cacarella I think you misunderstood PJ’s point. The podiums you list all had a Red Bull, Mclaren or Ferrari on them (in each case on the top step too).
          1. 

             Cacarella (@cacarella)
             28th November 2011, 15:58

             @jerseyf1

             Ahhhhh,

             http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3FnpaWQJO0
             1. 

                James Bolton
                28th November 2011, 16:30

                I remember how shocked we all were at the first race of 2003 when there wasn’t a Ferrari on the podium, for the first time since the 1999 European GP
          2. 

             PJ (@)
             28th November 2011, 18:29

             Exactly. Can’t have any of those 6 cars up there.
17. 

    xivizmath (@xivizmath)
    28th November 2011, 16:57

    So how many times this year we had a wheel flying off the car right after a pit stop?
    1. 

       AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
       30th November 2011, 22:56

       I count Jenson Button at Silverstone and Glock in Interlagos.
18. 

    N7 (@m77)
    28th November 2011, 18:30

    if we exclude slight name changes or takeovers of ownership stakes, how many other drivers pass the 100 mark for a team?! off the top of my head I can think of JB for BAR/Honda/Brawn. could well be the only other though
    1. 

       Bleu (@bleu)
       28th November 2011, 18:45

       Fisichella. 66 with Benetton (1998-2001) and 53 with Renault (2005-07)
19. 

    paulgilb (@paulgilb)
    28th November 2011, 19:01

    This was Hamilton’s first race-ending mechanical failure since Hungary 2010 – which was coincidentally Webber’s last win before this one. Also, both races featured Michael Schumacher getting rather close to a Brazilian.

    Interlagos is the first circuit at which Webber has won twice. In the last 3 years he has finished 1-2-1, having not scored a point at Interlagos prior to 2009!
    1. 

       Adam Tate (@adam-tate)
       28th November 2011, 19:11

       Impressive! Webber has now matched Massa’s performance at Interlagos from 2006-2008 by going 1-2-1.
20. 

    Adam Tate (@adam-tate)
    28th November 2011, 19:07

    @Keith

    I really like the stats of starts per team for the drivers at the top.

    Does anyone know who has the most wins for each team? For example, Schumacher had 180 starts for Ferrari and in that time had 72 wins.
21. 

    US_Peter (@us_peter)
    28th November 2011, 19:43

    Webber’s 7 fastest laps this season puts him tied for 8th most fastest laps in a season with Schumacher, Prost, and Piquet. The only other drivers in the top 10 on that list are all world champions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_driver_records#Most_fastest_laps_in_a_season
22. 

    David-A (@david-a)
    28th November 2011, 23:59

    Vettel took 11 wins, 5 2nd places and 1 third – exactly the same as Michael Schumacher in 2002.
23. 

    wasiF1 (@wasif1)
    29th November 2011, 2:48

    Vettel for sure in years time will break pole record of Schumacher.
24. 

    firestorm69 (@firestorm69)
    29th November 2011, 3:51

    Jenson Button’s third place at Interlagos takes him to an impressive 3rd in the all time points scored table:

    1 SCHUMACHER Michael 1,517
    2 ALONSO Fernando 1,086
    3 BUTTON Jenson 811
    4 PROST Alain 798.50
    5 VETTEL Sebastian 773
    6 HAMILTON Lewis 723
    7 WEBBER Mark 669.50

    Alain Prost’s points were of course, all scored before the new higher points systems of late.
    1. 

       firestorm69 (@firestorm69)
       29th November 2011, 3:52

       As were most of Michael’s! ;-)
    2. 

       Lachie (@lachie)
       29th November 2011, 6:46

       I think this is a stat that really needs to be put to bed or officially adjusted. The tenth point for a win and points down to 8th etc. were things that could almost be passable when comparing early F1 to modern times, but now that points are essentially worth 2.5 times as much its far too skewed.
       1. 

          PJ (@)
          30th November 2011, 14:25

          I think average finishing position would be a better barometer.
25. 

    PJ (@)
    30th November 2011, 14:25

    Another stat: Every driver from Alonso upwards score more points than Vettel did last year.
26. 

    The Limit
    30th November 2011, 15:14

    Nice statistics Keith! Proves just how good Sebastien Vettel now is compared to other legendary drivers of years gone by. To be that close at such a young age to the likes of Aryton Senna is something he can be very proud of. Vettel has not just won the championship this year, he has dominated it in such a crushing fashion that Senna himself would have been no doubt proud of.
    Alot has been written about the strength of the Red Bull chassis and the part it has played in Vettel’s double world championship. For this there is no doubt, and it was the case for Nigel Mansell in 1992 and Senna in 1988 for example. But, as with those two superb drivers, you have to have the quality behind the wheel to achieve these statistics. Vettel has that quality, which at times, has made the rest of the grid look quite average.
    However, Vettel’s dominance is not just down to skill and car performance on the part of Red Bull. Alot can be attributed to the lack of pace from McLaren and Ferrari, both of which have been caught cold by Red Bull’s progress in 2011. Despite the great performances by Jenson Button and Fernando Alonso, both teams found it impossible to catch Red Bull. This
    obviously made Red Bull’s task all the more easier. As it was with Williams in 1992, they maintained their advantage throughout the season and never looked back.
    If Ferrari or McLaren deliver a car in 2012 like Red Bull have done this year, then Vettel will have a fight on his hands. Ferrari are not stupid. Signing Alonso to a multi year contract earlier this year clearly states just how confident they are that they have the right man in their car. All they need now is a machine that matches Fernando’s obvious talent. McLaren ofcourse have Lewis Hamilton and the vastly impressive Button aswell, so if they can improve on 2011, then ding dong. That ofcourse, is the hope of every fan at the moment.
    Nobody really hated Michael Schumacher, but seeing him win year after year did get a little tiresome after five straight seasons. F1 thrives on close battles and titles coming down to the wire. Fingers crossed!
27. 

    AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
    30th November 2011, 22:52

    Sounds a bit harsh on Virgin regarding the number of race starts without a point. The only reason HRT aren’t level with them is that they were deemed to slow to start the race!

Comments are closed.