Narain Karthikeyan, HRT, Melbourne, 2012

Karthikeyan hits back at “crybaby” Vettel

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Narain Karthikeyan, HRT, Melbourne, 2012In the round-up: Narain Karthikeyan says Sebastian Vettel’s criticism of him was “really unprofessional”.


Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Don’t be a cry baby, Karthikeyan tells Vettel (The Times of India)

“For a world champion to say things like that is really shameful. It is really unprofessional. For a driver who has achieved so much to take out his frustrations on me just because he is having a difficult year is really sad. One does not expect a professional sportsman to be such a cry baby.”

Crash suggests Vettel is under pressure (BBC)

“One leading F1 figure told me: “‘It was completely Vettel’s fault – he needed to give Karthikeyan more space. He only had to clear the last inch and he cut across the front of him. He was showing a bit of frustration and it bit him.'”

Petrov blames Vettel for Karthikeyan incident (GP Update)

“Karthikeyan didn?t do anything unnecessary – didn?t hit him, didn?t change direction sharply. Sebastian overtook him and started to turn. But Narain was going straight.”

On Bahrain (The Buxton Blog)

“There is an allocated media hotel and media shuttles have been laid on. I will be avoiding both. It?s just too much of an obvious target for those wishing to get their message across to an international audience.”

Bahrain and Formula 1 (Joe Saward)

“It is just a shame that the final doubts about the place were not swept away with invitations to the event for Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, the two major human rights organisations in the world. If they had come to the party and said that all was well, then no-one would have any worries.”

Alan Baldwin via Twitter

“French PM Francois Fillon is visiting Le Castellet tomorrow. Le Parisien newspaper says he will announce deal done for French GP in 2013.”

Yas chief hopes Abu Dhabi remains host of F1 Young Drivers Test (The National)

“We would obviously be disappointed if Abu Dhabi didn’t host the Young Drivers’ Test because it has become a part of our season, but I can understand the teams’ concerns.”

Gary Anderson?s review of the F1 teams after two races (BBC)

“In the last two years, Red Bull’s big benefit was in having a car on which they did not have to do much work at a race meeting. But in Malaysia, for the first time ever, I saw them changing torsion bars, roll-bars, ride heights and so on.”

Tony Fernandes Q&A: Caterham can join the midfield (F1)

“The goal for mid-season is the same as it is for the whole year ahead. We know what is achievable, and breaking into the midfield is a huge challenge, so the reasonable target is tenth again.”

Red Alert (Grand Prix)

“The most pertinent question was why he had gone off. Which brings us back to the radio message; a pretty dumb call, if ever I heard one. Apart from presupposing Perez hadn’t worked out the implications of a DNF for this little team, history shows that asking a F1 driver to slow down is like suddenly discussing the weekend’s shopping while having sex. Or, so I would imagine.”

I know I can count on a second family (Ferrari)

“It’s the not the first time I’ve gone through a difficult moment like this and I know well that things can change quickly, but now is the moment to do my utmost because I want this negative period to come to an end.”

Shear Power ?ǣ Chassis E20-01 Returns to Base (Lotus)

“The chassis we have back here now is Romain?s car from Malaysia, chassis E20-01. We didn?t originally intend to bring this car back, but after the events of Sepang and the damage incurred it made sense bring it back for repairs as well as getting everything else we need done.”

Formula One Star Lewis Hamilton travels to Manila for Soccer Aid 2012 (McLaren)

“Lewis Hamilton spent two days this week in Manila with UNICEF, the world?s leading children?s organisation, making a short film about street children that will be shown during Soccer Aid on May 27th 2012, on ITV 1.”

Comment of the day

Much praise for the efforts of marshals from several readers yesterday, including this from TimG:

We seldom hear much about it, but motor racing at every level is completely dependent on the time and goodwill of volunteers who perform a range of essential tasks, mostly without payment or acknowledgement. Having been involved in grass roots-level motorsport in the UK, you really get to appreciate the efforts of the dedicated and highly skilled people who give up their time ?ǣ and often take similar risks to the drivers and pit crew ?ǣ to make the sport work properly. It?s easy to criticise officialdom at motor races, but doing the job is incredibly difficult to get right all the time ?ǣ and most of the time they do get it right.

I’m not surprised that (most) teams are grateful for having their cars brought back safely. I have vivid memories from years ago, when I was working on a Formula Ford at Castle Combe, of the marshal who took the time and trouble to return a body panel that had come off on the far side of the circuit after contact. Above and beyond, really.

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  • 228 comments on “Karthikeyan hits back at “crybaby” Vettel”

    1. I’m glad that Narain has stood up for himself here, and that other drivers are also doing so, as I think it was 100% Vettels fault. Narain didn’t move his car, he had no need to, and Vettel cut across and ran over his front wing, puncturing his own tyre, if it was Hamilton last season instead of Vettel, I wonder who would have got the penalty?

      1. F1fanNL (@)
        30th March 2012, 1:00

        Clearly, you haven’t seen the footage all that well.

        1. Correct. 100% Karthikeyan’s fault. The fact that he has the audacity to call it a “racing incident” astounds me. Vettel overreacted, that’s for certain, but it was for a good reason.

          1. It was a racing incident. Vettel should have given more space.

        2. I agree. From behind it looks 50/50 but from the front it’s 100% Karthikeyan. He tried to go for the slipstream too soon, simple as.

          1. Yeah I hadn’t seen the head-on shot on tv and concluded it was Vettel’s fault, but after watching it, it’s clear it was Narain at fault.

          2. For what its worth, I did exactly the same thing. I initially thought it was Vettel and then after seeing it from the other angle it’s clear that NK weaves to try and get into the slip stream and misjudges it.

            However, it doesn’t excuse Vettel’s comments in the slightest (calling other drivers idiots) and I’m pleased NK has had a go back at him. I don’t remember Jenson calling Vettel ‘an idiot’ after he misjudged his passing move at Spa in 2010.

            1. but his boss did call him the crash kid

          3. @mopatop If you look at the car in front of both of them you’ll see the racing line. Then compare that to the trajectory of Narain’s car on the road. It seemed to me that Narain was following the racing line rather than purposely cutting to the right.

        3. It would appear that which camera shot you chose to believe is correct decides which driver you feel was at fault, I think only an overhead shot would be definitive but am prepared to accept that the stewards had the most information despite what my eyes and the Sky commentary team told me.

        4. If you look at those gifs its clear that he was only very slightly further inwards. If Vettel had given more room it would not have happened.

        5. After a lot of scientific research and data analysis, I reached the conclusion that Vettel’s fault in that incident mounts up to 51,23%, with indicates that he just needs to calm down.

          1. Hm, Horacio, but you failed to mention the margin of error in that percentage, so it might still be below 50% ;-)

      2. I also thought it was 100% Vettel’s fault initially. The footage from the back of the cars show Vettel turning left, into Karthikeyan. But once you look it from the front, it totally changes… it was 50/50 and maybe NK is more at fault…

        It’s true that Vettel should’ve been more careful, specially with the conditions of the track, but Narain was the one behind, so he should’ve backed off. I know what people are gonna say: “if he’s a WDC, he should be able to overtake without problems”, but even so, it was Karthikeyan’s who should’ve avoided contact.

        It’s nice he stood up for himself, though, because Vettel’s reaction was just stupid… but that highlights RBR’s and Vettel’s frustrations.

        1. It doesnt show much maturity of each of them with their name calling. Reminds me of the late Leslie Neilson as Detective Frank Drebin “Oh, it’s all right. I’m sure that we can handle this situation maturely, just like the responsible adults that we are. Isn’t that right, Mr… Poopy Pants”

          1. Surely, you can’t be joking

            1. I’m not. And don’t call me Shirley.

            2. I’m not. And don’t call me Shirley.

              Damnit! You beat me to it :P

      3. Things happened did happen, and the penalty was given. It is 50/50 to say who should bear responsibility, and it depends on how the blue-flag rule is interpreted and how balanced are the rights of the lapping and the lapped drivers.

        But no matter whose fault it was and how the rules are interpreted, it is completely unacceptable for Vettel to insult Karthikeyan. NK now has every right to criticize Vettel back.

      4. The stewards’ penalising Karthikeyan creates an impression that they thought he was entirely to blame, which I don’t agree with.

        But what strikes me most about the incident is how unnecessary it was for both parties.

        Vettel had no need to move back across the front of Karthikeyan as sharply as he did. The racing line was coming back towards him anyway. The prudent move would have been to give the backmarker some space and the way he did it suggests irritation at being briefly delayed while he was chasing down Hamilton. That momentary loss of cool cost him 12 points, maybe 15.

        Equally, Karthikeyan had been slow through the previous corner and should have exercised a bit more caution as Vettel was coming past him.

        Ultimately, here we have two professional racing drivers who were in two different races on the same track and both should have had the sense to avoid a collision.

        Vettel’s reaction was not too clever and the smart thing for him to do now would be to back down. A world champion having a public row with a driver who failed to qualify for the first race? That doesn’t reflect well on him.

        It’s a timely reminder, after his dominance last year, that he can feel the pressure as much as any other driver when things aren’t going his way.

        1. Optimaximal
          30th March 2012, 9:20

          I’d say he feels it more… or at least doesn’t deal with it as well.

        2. I agree. I think the worst thing about it was Vettel calling a fellow driver “some idiot”. It’s hugely disrespectful and just underscores my feeling that however brilliant a driver he is, I’ll struggle to like him as long as he’s such a bad loser.

        3. If he carries on like this, he’ll have himself a ‘Hamilton year’.

          1. He’s well on his way… No respect from me.

        4. If you look at the videos you can see that Narain is looking in his left mirror and not in front where Sebastian was.

          100% Narains fault

          1. I watched the video again several times before writing that last comment. I don’t think this is sufficient to lay all the blame at Karthikeyan’s feet, for the reasons I’ve explained above.

            1. I think you should watch it again keith in slow motion:

              Vettel moves away from Narain slowly, not in front. There was almost 2 car lengths given to Narain, how much more does he need?

            2. Judging by the contact, a couple of inches.

              Adding anything else to this would just be repeating myself.

          2. And the blue flag rule mentions you might not hold an uncoming racer, but it doesn’t mention you have to let him the best possible line … And Vettel is sticking pretty much to his trajectory.
            Indeed Narai is involved and played his role, but if you look through his race, it was probably one of his best with a top ten on track for a while (it didn’t last very much but maybe putt him in a state of fighting a bit more intense … that could explain a bit)

            After, okay a lapped driver should let the other pass him but we can see how unfair that could be while some are blocked longer than other depending on where it happens on track. Okay Vettel payed the full price but he searched it a bit, as did Button finally

            1. I would say a foot at least.

          3. artificial racer
            30th March 2012, 17:22

            Absolutely right… he’s clearly looking off to his left for some reason, maybe to make sure he stays off the kerb. He’s following the racing line without any regard for Vettel’s car.

          4. @george Looking at the trajectory of the 3 cars other than Vettel’s in that video link, it seems that Vettel’s car is the odd one out, meaning Vettel’s line was completely different to the other 3 on the video. This concludes to me that the other 3 cars (including Narain’s) were actually on the racing line and that Vettel was making his move towards the racing line. Using the racing line as the guide for the normal path for all cars, you’d expect that anyone making the overtaking move needs to ensure they have cleared the car behind them before moving onto the racing line.

            1. artificial racer
              30th March 2012, 18:19

              @vho Narain is following the racing line, but a) he’s not looking where he’s going and b) he’s not fighting for position and is obligated to avoid the car in front. Vettel is feeding onto the racing line. Narain has room.

              This wasn’t Narain being racy. He would not want to hit Vettel and he could easily have avoided that. He admitted himself that he made a mistake so I don’t know why this is still being debated. It’s at least 75% Narain’s fault.

            2. So you would agree that Narain was not bullied off the track which Narain describes as Vettel already gave him the racing line and more as the video shows. If Narain was looking in front he would of seen that Vettel was already in front.

              How kind young Vettel was, giving a back runner the racing line while he went on the marbles and damp track to make sure Narain’s race didn’t suffer even if he was catching Lewis for 3rd.

              Next time Vettel should just drive him off the track and show him what real bullying on a track is like.

            3. @george It also depends on how much throttle Narain had at the time Vettel appeared in front of his car. In the replay it also showed that both Vettel and Narain were exiting the corner at the same time – which also meant that Vettel’s approach to the back marker was mid corner rather than before the corner. Even in blue flag situations if the back marker was already committed mid way to the corner you couldn’t reasonably expect them to back-off mid corner and potentially cause a bigger accident. A prudent racer would wait for the back marker to complete the corner before overtaking when it was safe to do so. The replay also showed that Vettel was on the throttle early as his rear stepped out as he powerslid out of the corner, thus potentially losing acceleration, and compared to Narain who’d seemed to have a better exit. Nevertheless, Narain would have had to back off to allow Vettel to get through, but didn’t expect him to comeback to the racing line so quickly. Also in the replay, it seems Vettel was already committing to overtaking the Marussia (?) in front and was looking to take the inside line to the next corner and thus had to cross back over to the otherside of the racing line. IMO Vettel thought he’d cleared the HRT and was readying himself for the inside line for the very next corner and hadn’t taken enough precaution.

            4. @vho I should probably mention the guy you’re replying to isn’t me (he’s unregistered so I get all those @’s). I do agree with him though so not a big deal ;)

      5. I disagree with being glad that Narain stuck up for himself, or at least with the way he did it. With whose fault the crash is aside, 2 wrongs don’t make a right and him calling Vettel a crybaby is actually him just being a crybaby. He could have taken the high road and stuck up for himself by saying that he didn’t think he was a fault…not name calling a name caller… With that said, Vettel should have known better as well.

        1. Agreed. Neither one of them is behaving as a role model. It is certainly shameful for a world champion to be calling a backmarker an idiot, but it’s just as shameful for a backmarker to be calling a world champion a crybaby. They both need to grow up, and apologize to each other and to the fans they’ve let down.

    2. Interesting side note on HRT in Gary Anderson’s piece:

      Pedro de la Rosa was not only within the mark needed to qualify in Malaysia – which is to be within 107% of the fastest time in the first part of qualifying – but he was also within 107% of the actual pole time. Which has never happened before.

      It’s a long and slow road, but it’s good to see they’re not going backwards.

      1. I would expect the EBD ban has been the primary factor in that. It’s evident in how the teams are much closer this year all through the field. Still an interesting point. One which shows that the EBD ban was good for the sport in the sense of removing a massively expensive and hard to implement idea.

        1. I remember most of the team managers said that back then. The EBD surely was complicated enough to slow half the field down…

          1. Optimaximal
            30th March 2012, 9:24

            Obviously the ins and outs are beyond me, but I don’t think the concept was complicated, it just needed time to implement and tune.

            RBR got the most out of it because they had a 6 month headstart and a chassis geared around it. Everyone else had to adopt it once the double diffuser was removed, leaving them all on the back foot.

            I think you can basically trace the championship position & performance across 2011 to how quickly the concept was successfully implemented by team designers.

        2. You may well be right.

    3. Gotta say, my first impressions of Karthikeyan were that he’s out of place on an F1 grid. However, he needs the track time, and he simply hasn’t had it. So I should really reserve my personal judgement for another time.

      Vettel is probably regretting those comments, as they are coming back to him with mud on. Lewis has learnt to keep quiet sometimes, and Jenson was a total gent about his run in.

      Mind, I don’t personally mind it all. It all adds to the show for me, and as long as Karthikeyan doesn’t screw up my race predictions for any more races, I’m happy to see his efforts over the forthcoming races. ;)

    4. Ouch…. What does everyone think about this? I agree that Vettel didn’t really have to say those things, but maybe there is a problem here. Personally, even though Karthikeyan did have the line, he was the backmarker and should’ve cleared the way. I think he’s exaggerating a bit when he said he’d have to clear out onto the grass to do so. Maybe cash-drivers are doing more than bringing down the quality of the sport, but actually hindering the drivers who are actually competitive (I mean…. 10th overall in A1 as a career highlight DOES kinda make him seem like a ‘pickle’). As always, I’m open to changing my mind. So, fire away!

      1. I apologize. I didn’t find all the information about his past racing history. He’s done better than I thought.

        1. soundscape (@)
          30th March 2012, 1:43

          Kudos for correcting the blunder. :)

        2. Where has he done better than you thought?

          1. Here’s just a few:4th in British F3 championship(2000). won races there in 1999 as well.
            Pole position and fastest lap in Macau F3, wins at Spa F3 race and Korea Super Prix also in 2000
            4th in Nissan World Series(now WSbR) in 2003 with multiple wins. Also won races there in 2002 and 2004

    5. I never thought I’d defend Karthikeyan, but he’s right to stand up for himself here. Vettel has seriously gone down in my books for the way he’s handled this incident – a 2 times world champion can’t just go around blaming everybody else when things don’t go his way.

      1. OmarR-Pepper (@)
        30th March 2012, 1:14

        @ciaran Well for a champion or for any driver is ok to go nuts when another driver breaks early and spoils your race

      2. @ciaran I agree,

        “fault” becomes irrelevant if you start calling people idiots and sticking your finger up at them. This is a professional televised race series. In any other sport Vettel would receive a ban for doing this.

      3. It reminds me of when he did ‘weirdo’ finger after he crashed into Webber. Just lack of respect really. As some of the comments mention above, you wouldn’t catch Jenson doing that.

    6. Fair play to Karthikeyan. Vettel really needs to keep quiet at the moment. He isn’t helping his reputation by getting into arguments with a HRT driver over something that was his fault in the first place.

      1. agree. oh finger boy. He shows his true color.

        1. He showed his true finger

      2. Apart from the initial outburst Vettel has been quiet. But look who is making use of his new found popularity

        1. Apart from his initial pathetic hand gestures toward MW at Turkey 2010, Vettel also kept quiet. Such a well mannered boy he was then, and continues to be now.

          And more nonsense about NK. He was asked a question by a journo regarding his reaction to SV’s behaviour and answered it in the most correct manner

    7. This is the first time I’ve ever heard that a leading driver should be the one to give room to a backmarker. And even if so, I think it is clear for anyone to see from Vettel’s onboard and from the head-on shot that Karthikeyan had enough room. I keep looking at Vettel’s onborad and I can’t for the life of me see how he turned in on Karthikeyan.

      Have I missed something or did Vettel attack Karthikeyan again? If so, that’s really bad on Vettel, but if Narain is referring to Vettel’s interview after the race, then I don’t know what his point is. The guy was obviously frustrated, he knew he lost 12 points (and I’m not even going to talk about whose fault it was, as I’ve said I’ve watched the video countless times and what I see is that Vettel was going straight. Even Narain admited it was his fault), an ammount that could be crucial in such a competitive season; after all, Vettel won his first title by only four points.

      By the way, my internet is being really rubbish right now, so could anyone please help me remember how did Webber react when Vettel crashed on him at Fuji 2007?

      1. By the way, my internet is being really rubbish right now, so could anyone please help me remember how did Webber react when Vettel crashed on him at Fuji 2007?

        I believe the quote you’re looking for might be, “Well, it’s kids, isn’t it? Kids with not enough experience, doing a good job, then they **** it all up.” [Link]

        1. Circumstances were rather different. That wasn’t a racing incident, or even an incident that happened during racing. Vettel ran into him under safety car.

          1. I’m pretty sure we all understand that. However, the issue for many people doesn’t seem to be the particular circumstances but rather what is and isn’t okay to say to the media about another driver. Personally, I’m of the “people say things when they’re angry that they might not say under other circumstances, so cut them some slack” school of thought. I apply that to all drivers (and all people generally) — Webber, Vettel, Karthikeyan, Hamilton, and everyone else.

            1. I’m of the school that says what you say should be proportional to the incident and the fault of the other driver. Nobody had a problem with Barrichello when he criticised Schumacher when he nearly ran him into the wall. What Webber said here was basically correct, it was an accident that occurred as a result of Vettel’s inexperience. Here on the other hand, opinions are very much split on blame, you couldn’t say the the accident was down to NK being a cucumber. That’s just an insult.

            2. Well, do enjoy yourself in that school! Sadly, I’ll be over here with the rest of us imperfect mortals who occasionally say things in anger without first pausing to carefully consider all possible mitigating factors.

      2. Webber slammed Vettel in the interview following his crash. “Kids, isn’t it? Kids with not enough experience – you do a good job and then they **** it all up.” Pretty sure Vettel was crying his eyes out in the pits too.

        1. Pretty sure Vettel was crying his eyes out in the pits too.

          Yeah, I remember that too. To be honest, even after the stupid mistake, Vettel grew on me a lot at that race.

      3. jsw11984 (@jarred-walmsley)
        30th March 2012, 1:26

        It’s kids isn’t it, kids with not enough experience doing a good job, then they **** it all up.

      4. ***** kids.
        Or something of the like.

      5. ” It’s kids innit”

        1. innit’s a word innit?

      6. I’m not on exactly on the popular front with this either. At best, the incident was 50/50 if you can criticise Vettel for insisting on that extra bit of straight racing line before turning towards the next corner, and if you can believe that Narain had some issues with marbles, so had less control than it looked like he had. In that case, Vettel’s comment after race wasn’t helpful and he’d regret saying that about another driver. However, I think think it’s still within the bounds of average racing-driver reactions and doesn’t particularly put him down in my estimation.

        However, that’s all putting Narain’s role in the incident in the best light. IMO Narain seems to have been getting in the way as much as possible this season: he’s actually one of my main memories of the Australia weekend for that reason, which is remarkable considering he only lasted until Q1. This incident was another example of not just Narain, but the other backmarkers too, not getting themselves properly out of the way when they’re getting lapped. In that light I can sympathise with Vettel to some degree.

        I know that the ever-backmarkers have entered the competiton just the same as the guys in the front and therefore obviously have a right to be on the track, but when it comes to being lapped that cuts both ways. Yes, you have entered the race on equal terms, but if you then do so poorly in that race that you get lapped then I’m sorry, but you’re losing and the people beating you get priority. If you’re a midfielder in a close fight for points then I can understand cutting it fine with people coming to lap you, but if you’re isolated then you really have no excuse for not making sure you get out of the way properly when the time comes.

        IMO Narain took a lazy risk in moving across the track before Vettel was past him, and ended up ruining his race. If that was me and the other guy called me an idiot in a mood after the race, I’d take it on the chin and maybe make a quiet apology at the next race; it’s not like it wasn’t my fault. If Narain wants to be the professional sportsman then he can work on correcting his mistakes rather than telling the people affected by them to stop moaning.

        1. *isolated or far from the points

      7. @pamphlet That was a little different, under safety car conditions if I remember and Webber was near the front of the pack in a position he rarely had the chance to be in. Plus he’s Aussie, and we tend to be a bit more blunt about those kinds of things.

        1. he was coming 2nd with a helmet full of vomit and a bout of food poisoning. Im surprised his language wans’t more colourful.

        2. @nackavich – “He’s an Aussie” shouldn’t be justification for being rude.

          1. It seems people can separate their insults now in our days. Saying to you that you ***** up is not the same as calling you a “cucumber” or an “idiot”, so why is every non typical language being treated as the same?

            1. @solo Because using that language isn’t the best way to react. You can take your pick from that, or Whitmarsh’s “crash kid” jibe. Other people do what Vettel did.

          2. @david-a I never denied he was being ‘rude’, I merely said he was being blunt, in Australian fashion. If he was annoyed at Vettel, and rightly so he was, he was blunt in voicing his opinion. He didn’t act like a child, or backstab anybody, he vented his frustration plainly, and moved on.

      8. You compare the actions of Vettel at Fuji 2007 to those of Karthikeyan at Sepang 2012?! You pretend to be logical but this argument doesn’t stand up to any logic at all. Even if NK was mostly to blame for the impact it was a small mistake caused by non-cautious overtaking by SV. But sure, feel free to compare it with slamming into, and putting out of the race another car under the safety car.

        1. @montreal95 my point here is not comparing the circumstances that led to both collisions. I wanted to know how Webber reacted in the media, because all I could remeber was that he didn’t have any soft words either, because in my view people have been overreacting to Vettel’s comments just as Vettel overreacted in his interview. Comparing the collisions themselves was always out of question.

      9. @guilherme – I think Vettel was responsible for the collision, mostly because I think he misjudged the gap. His right-rear tyre tagged the front-left of Karthikeyan’s car. I think Vettel just moved back onto the racing line a little too quickly, and there was nothing either driver could do to prevent it. Karthikeyan was, after all, doing everything in his power to stay out of the way.

        1. @prisoner-monkeys Well, I have to disagree. Looking at it from the back it does look like Vettel moved, but on the other two camera angles available it is clear (to me at least) that Karthikeyan turned into Vettel. But I think the point of who was at fault has already been discussed at length in the forum I think.

        2. @prisoner-monkeys Agreed. Looking at the front replay it seems that Vettel’s car was trying to get onto the racing line and it wasn’t Narain’s car that deviated from the racing line. Look at the lines that the 2 cars in front of them were taking. The angle of the camera shot shows Vettel heading directly towards the camera’s position, but the camera’s position is not relative to the racing line, so it can seem to look like the HRT is turning sharply to the right, but in fact it was following the racing line.

          1. That’s as maybe, but the point that some would make is that Narain shouldn’t be trying to follow the racing line considering he was getting lapped.

            1. A back marker should follow the racing line while they’re getting lapped provided they back off on the throttle. By following the racing line the back marker’s car position is more predictable – especially in a straight-line – for the overtaking driver to make the pass. I can understand the racing line should be afforded to the overtaking driver about to lap a back marker when approaching a corner, but in a straightline the back marker should stay as “still” as possible on their position (the racing line is the most predictable) so there are no potential surprises for the overtaking driver. In the instance between Vettel and Narain, they were both commencing a short straight before a left turn.

    8. Just wondering how a usually smiling Vettel could say such about another driver. And Horner himself didn’t help matters. There has to be some sanity at Redbull this season. They should remember that until recently they were never front runners in F1. What makes a great team is not only the number of plaques they acquire, but also the excellence they exhibit in accepting their victories and losses, no matter the circumstances. Seb should understand that while he is greatly admired by a lot of people, those same people (especially fans) can so easily switch their allegiance if they sense that he is a cocky fellow. To whom much is given, much is expected.

      1. Pressure and things not going your way.

    9. The comments were definitely out of order and the incident was his own lapse of judgement. What will be the true judge of character, for me, is if he apologises like Hamilton did to Maldanado and Massa after Monaco last year. Emotional outbursts are understandable, but not having the cojones to stand up, admit fault and apologise shows bad sportsmanship.
      On a side note, anyone care to comment on what order they would put the world champions on the grid in terms of personal favourites (not skill levels, don’t wanna start a huge debate). Mine would be:
      1. Hamilton
      2. Alonso
      3. Schumacher
      4. Raikkonen
      5. Button
      6. Vettel

      1. I’m actually gonna change my opinion on this one thanks to @Ayfa posting that video. I hadn’t previously seen the head-on shot and it certainly looks like Narain tucked back under abit early for whatever reason, maybe he had some oversteer and he had to correct it. Either way I take it back that it was a lapse of judgement from Vettel.

        1. He had put his right rear on the wet kerb and had to turn into the track in order to get off it.

          1. Ah but his wheel wasn’t on the kerb. It had been earlier but not just as he came back across and honestly, I think Vettel gave him more than enough room and I really don’t like Vettel lol.

            1. Yes, but he’d already turned in when Vettel swept past him.

      2. 1. Schumacher
        2. Vettel
        3. Raikkonen
        4. Button
        5. Alonso
        6. Hamilton

        Also, I’ve already said this numerous times – Vettel has nothing to apologize for. It was 100% Narain’s fault. Petrov’s comments are dumb and bandwagon-ish, which is rather disappointing because I like him a lot.

        1. Read my above reply to myself. Even so resorting to name-calling for a world champion who has made similar mistakes in the past and not recieved the same response from drivers isn’t great, but as long as he apologises I won’t judge him. He’s only human.

        2. Vettel has nothing to apologize for

          I’m not completely sure if you are talking about the collision or the post race comments when saying this. If your talking about the post race comments then I disagree 100%.

          1. @dpod – He meant for the collision.

            1. Correct. His comments were uncalled for and he should probably do something about it, but he shouldn’t apologize for the contact itself.

      3. 1. Button
        2. Raikkonen
        3. Vettel
        4. Hamilton
        5. Alonso
        6. Schumacher

        1. Gagnon (@johnniewalker)
          30th March 2012, 7:36

          1. Alonso
          2. Raikkonen
          3. Button
          4. Schumacher
          5. Hamilton
          6. Vettel

          1. 1. Schumacher
            2. Button
            3. Raikkonen
            4. Alonso
            5. Vettel
            6. Hamilton

      4. 1. Button
        (big empty space)
        2. Räikkönen
        (very big empty space)

      5. 1. Button
        2. Alonso
        3. Vettel
        4. Raikkonen
        5. Hamilton
        6. Schumacher

      6. 1. Alonso (with 30 minute head start)
        2. 2nd Ferrari driver making up the numbers
        3-23. Rest of field (wearing Alonso masks)
        24. Hamilton (in tractor)

      7. 1. Raikkonen
        2. Hamilton
        3. Button
        Considerable daylight
        4. Vettel
        5. Alonso
        6. Schumacher
        Basically I like the top 3 and don’t like the bottom 3

      8. 1. Hamilton
        2. Hamilton
        3. Hamilton
        4. Alonso
        5. MSC

      9. 1. Raikkonen (because he is such a crazy blockhead)
        2. Button (because of his friendliness)
        rest: I don’t care.

        Schumi looks like a gangster to me, same with Alonso. Although blackmailing the boss is really good entertainment.

        By the way, it’s Karthikeyan’s fault.
        (Thank you George for the video posted above:

        1. 1- Schumacher
          2- Raikkonen
          3- Hamilton-
          4- Vettel
          5- Button
          Forget Alonso…

      10. 1= Vettel, Schumacher
        3. Raikkonen
        4. Alonso
        5. Button
        6. Hamilton

        1. 1) Raikkonen
          2) Hamilton
          3) Button
          3) Schumacher
          5) Cucumbers
          6) Alonso & Vettel

      11. 1. Raikkonen – Always has and will be been my favourite.
        2. Button – All round good and honest driver.
        3. Schumacher – Began cheering him on last season and I really want him to do well this season.
        4. Alonso – No man’s land. Fernando is very up and down for me. At the moment, it’s somewhere near the up.
        5. Vettel and Hamilton – Nothing wrong with their abilities but they don’t really do it for me as much as the top 3.

      12. @goodyear92 Why do you have Button and Vettel so low? I’m just curious. :)

        For me:

        1. Button
        2. Alonso
        3. Vettel
        4. Raikkonen
        5. Hamilton
        = Schumacher.

        1. Why do you have Schumacher and Hamilton so low? Just personal preference. My reasons are basically: I hate hearing drivers are in fuel saving mode, or are going slow to save tyres. I know it’s a part of racing, but I find it annoying that a driver is restrained from going fast to save fuel and not damage his tyres and Button and Vettel thrive in those sort of conditions. Schumacher, Raikonnen, Alonso and Hamilton all thrive best when it’s about raw speed and fighting through the pack. Vettel has made a couple of good moves, but I’m not sold on him being a great racer yet. Need to see a race like China 2010 (Lewis) from him. Button is above him because he is a far better racer in my opinion, but he’s still low down because in 2010 he was less than impressive for me. Lewis crashed out twice, had a wheel failiure in spain, a gearbox failiure in Hungary and another gearbox problem in Japan where he limped home 5th and he still finished ahead. Jenson was impressive in 2011, but in regulations that suit him. I still think in raw speed on proper tyres he’s the slowest world champion.

    10. If you watched the replay(someone posted it on the previous thread but here it is if you haven’t see), you will see that Vettel did leave some room for Karthikeyan but Karthikeyan moved away from the curb as he admitted before. I agree Vettel’s handling of this incident isn’t very good but I can understand his frustration. Petrov just clearly didn’t watch the replay before his stupid comment.

      1. Well, @pamphlet, guess you will have to now correct your assumption. To me this is still a racing incident where both drivers could and should have been more carefull. Yes, Karthikeyan hit Vettel when correcting the car on a slippery track, he even said so himself. But Vettel had no need at all to cut a pass that close instead of leaving more room for a car that handles like a truck in the circumstances.

        And it certainly does not justify the middle finger 2x, nor calling names afterwards. If Vettel is the champ and gent who he wants to be, he should apologize to Narain for those comments.

    11. I think that Vettel definitely overreacted. I’m pretty disappointed about his conduct, and he didn’t need to be rather unpleasant, even if emotions may have been running high. But it has nothing to do with Petrov, who is now shifting the blame away from someone who admitted he got wheelspin and caused the incident.

    12. F1fanNL (@)
      30th March 2012, 1:13

      I see Petrov is blind as well….
      “Karthikeyan didn’t do anything unnecessary – didn’t hit him, didn’t change direction sharply.”
      Steering right suddenly isn’t changing direction sharply…. Come on.

      Also, Karthikeyan already admitted he hit Vettel so why are we still hearing “it’s Vettel’s fault”?

      Furthermore, what is Karthikeyan on about in his comments?
      “just because he is having a difficult year”
      What year? The year 2011? In which he won the championship easily? Or 2012, the year that’s only seen 2 races yet?

      When I get out of bed on Monday I’m usually grumpy too. That doesn’t make my entire week a bad week!

      This is just him (and Petrov) jumping on the Vettel bashing train while it’s still in the station. too bad for him he already admitted being at fault. He probably would have blamed the whole thing on Vettel now if he hadn’t.

      1. re: “having a difficult year” – I understood that to mean having a hard time testing, developing, practicing, qualifying and racing. That’s 3 months of “difficult”, and all of the year we’ve had so far.
        Plus SV seems to be doing his utmost to tee off the other drivers. “The new Schumacher” indeed.

      2. I should also add that the race contact seemed like (mostly) NK’s fault and that Vettel was unwise to cut it so close. And I’m in favour of drivers being passionate about racing. However, I do expect a multiple world champion to have a more balanced view in the longer run. I think SV needs to retract his “idiots” comment.

      3. Its easy for narain to say this, he didn’t lose any valuable points even after being given the penalty

    13. Andrew Benson is such a poor writer, how he keeps his job at BBC as head F1 writer I’ll never know.

      None of his articles show any sort of insight at all, I remember an earlier one about pre-season testing where he was going on about the innovative front wing DRS system on the Mclaren! He also further invalidates his opinion in my view by suggesting at the end Vettel should learn to lose gracefully like Button (fair enough) and who else, Alonso.

      Alonso?! The man who has thrown his toys out of the pram more times than I can count, a graceful loser? Unbelievable.

      1. The best winners generally make the worst losers lol. It’s sad but true. I don’t like the comments Vettel made and I’m not a fan of his in the slightest, but he’s only human and it’s easy for us to judge having never been in situations like that. Do think he should apologise and if he does, no more should be said about it.
        Agree with you on Benson, total hack. According to his calculations after testing, Mclaren would be about 30s off Red Bull by the end of a race. Yeah ok…

      2. @debaser91, I wonder why you bash A. Benson here, what was the grounds for that? You did notice that the BBC article in the roundup was just him writing down Gary Anderson’s views?

        1. @bascb – Not really. Anderson’s article is about all the teams, Benson’s is specific to Vettel ‘cracking’.

          As to why criticise him its something I’ve been feeling for a while and I wondered if anyone else on here felt the same. That article wasn’t a particularly bad example of his work but some of the ones he has written are really quite bad for supposedly a professional journalist. I mean with the resources and access he has available to him he often sounds much less well informed than a lot of people who post on this website, for example.

          1. yeah, sorry @debaser91, I sort of overlooked Benson’s article there!

            I do think he has often missed the point lately, at times during testing his conclusions were pretty far off IMO. But the part about Vettel to me seems pretty accurate, citing other people, German media etc., and I think his conclusion that Vettel does not like being beaten is pretty easy to get to, and its how it should be. Not that I think Vettel isn’t fully capable of being satisfied again if he makes a good weekend of the next race!

            As for the point about Alonso, I get that to mean, that Alonso has had to learn about losing in the past years and has learnt to deal with it since 2007, and since 2010. He does seem to take it better by now and always look at the positive side, for example his half full tweet after Australia.

    14. To me, Vettel was a bit hot-headed when he overtook Karthikeyan. However, clearly Karthikeyan’s did not even try to avoid the contact and simply kept his line on purpose. Karthikeyan should have got a warning at least.

      We all know why Karthikeyan is in F1. And he’s got a wrong way of going about trying to gain respect on track. One could argue, when looking at Button – Karthikeyan incident, that the message from Karthikeyan is clear: “I am not moving out of the way”.

      1. When he had the incident with Jenson they were racing for position.
        Seb was lapping him when they had their incident.

    15. Initialy I thought it was a racing incident and I felt Vettel was OTT with his comments. He shouldn’t have lost his cool regardless of who’s fault it was and he should have been a bit more careful of NK who’s in an inferior car and hasn’t had enough tracktime to be a pair of safe hands in close quarter racing. But Karthikeyan is making too much of a meal of it IMHO. He recieved support from others against Sebs tirade, rightly so IMO but he wasn’t completely blameless either. Now he’s in the news every day with a new “rightous” comment and calling Seb a crybaby is as equally dumb as Vettels outburst. This could drag on and have some minor entertainment value but at this stage both of them look childish to me.

      1. I saw Narain in an interview on Indian TV. Actually it was the reporter who was outraged and Karthikeyan saying, “yes its is unprofessional for him to call names etc.”.

        It just shows India is getting behind its driver here, I though Narian handled that pretty well and far from “making much of a meal of it”.

        1. @bascb whnvr Indian sportspersons are targeted, the whole nation supports em… It has happened many times in the past….look at cricket for instance

          1. I think F1 should be satisfied that the sport gets a bit of attention in that sense, will work wonders to get everyone interested.

    16. I don’t believe either of them are totally at fault or totally blameless. It does show that Naraine moves back seemingly with the intention of getting in behind Sebastian but from what I recall of the replay before it was taken off Youtube. On entry to the corner Seb is a car behind Naraine. I believe this was Lewis, Naraine obviously sees Lewis and goes deep into the corner leaving space for the McLaren but at the same time runs wide onto the edge of the track (you can see dirt kicked up) this slows him down and makes him a bit loose mid corner. He now has to look in his mirrors for corner exit; he sees Seb approaching and then must ensure he gives the Red Bull space for the exit. As Seb comes past him Naraine moves over too much and clips the Red Bull’s tyre.

      Sebastian on the other hand approaches the corner and from his on-board view we see Lewis go through the corner and we see the HRT go wide onto the dirt. Seb then looses the backend slightly late in the corner, makes a correction and accelerates onto the short straight moving over to the edge of the track as he does so.

      I’m not claiming to have any knowledge of being in a situation like this but surely if Seb has just seen the car in front going a bit wide, looking a bit loose and committed to the outside of the corner he should think, maybe I’ll give him a slightly wider berth just incase he didn’t see me.

      1. @nefor, thanks for writing that, I also see it this way: Vettel could have done more to take into account the HRT in front of him while passing, but he was impatient and didn’t give enough room, which clearly cost him. Karthikeyan was intending well, but needs to work on car control in this sort of situations.

        I think that makes it a driving incident. Perhaps the contact between NK and Button earlier in the race, while largely due to Button having a lock-up (says BUT), was also taken into account by the stewards. Just like last year for HAM (and MAS in India?), a single collision can happen to you, but if more of them happen, maybe you should look at why they do to you, and are you really doing enough to avoid them?

        Regardless, Vettel should apologise, and then NK can stop being quoted (but how many times did he now say this? Once and it is repeated thanks to news value? Not sure).

        Also, top teams do need to (be) remind(ed) themselves to also think about slower cars on track. Self interest really: a collision can ruin your race, so make sure it isn’t a back-marker either, just your competitor in the last race of the championship ;-)

    17. Forget whose mistake the incident was. The important thing is that Vettel went around showing the finger and went onto pass rude comments. He is supposed to be an ambassador of the sport, isn’t it?

    18. i dont understand these ‘this shows vettel is under pressure’ and Karthikeyan saying that vettel is having a difficult season.

      a second place in australia, a p6 qualifying time on the hard compound that perez showed would have had some pace, and he was running 3rd? at the time of the incident and closing on perez not falling away like some others behind.

      i dont see any real troubles or concerns. you dont need to win every race to win the championship. p2 and p3 from the first two races would have been a good start to the year.

      1. And yet his behaviour suggests he is impatient to get the car better – not so bad for a racer, but seems uncomfortable driving, and has now shown his not-so-happy face for winter testing and the two races. He is young, might well learn some more patience, but right now he doesn’t seem to have it.

    19. Can vettel remember how many times he crashed and messed up with the other drivers 2 seasons b4? Crashing kid!!!!!

      1. 3-4 times, all over 18 months ago. Not the record of a crashing kid to me.

        1. which of Vettel’s finger’s is that on your photo?
          Index – blown diffuser era
          Middle – post blown diffuser era

          1. thats the toro rosso days win isn’t it. thats bog standard diffuser era.

    20. Karthikeyan – Darned Gurken.

    21. NK just isn’t up to scratch. He is just horrible menace.

      The only think NK adds is a certain randomness to races, you never know who NK will impede or take out each and every session and race. He is like the menaces from Mario cart a banana, oil slick, lightning strike, surpise boxes.

      NK seems to have no spacial awareness, which is what you would think all top level driver would have.

      1. @bearforce : Roflol@NK being a Mario menace!!! :) :) Ur comment just made my day,sir!!!

      2. @bearforce1 By your logic Kobayashi is the same. You never know what’s going to happen in an overtake. Last year Liuzzi took out nearly half the field at Monza (or Spa), so he doesn’t have spatial awareness as well? And If Vettel had so much awareness why did he try to pass him at the corner whereas he would have had ample opportunity after it. Not that Im defending any driver but the argument is that a racing incident is being blown out of propotion.

    22. I sincerely think Sebastian has a problem with his fingers…

    23. I think Vettel is the ‘dill’ be it Karthikeyan’s fault, Vettel should have known better than to get so close to a backmarker…dont think Vettel can argue about that. Im sure last years Red Bull wouldve cleared the HRT by about a meter LOL… a snapshot of the difference in performance of this years and last years Red Bull : a HRT front wing :)

      Oh I remember that Heidfeld accident…he seemed to suffer from tunnel vision

      1. The last time a Red Bull got close to a back marker, Mark Webber ended up flying through the air.

        How people forget these things…

    24. Maybe FIA should put vettel and karthikeyan in a steel cage and let them settle it in the ring. And make Stone cold steve Austin the guest referee. Both get a taste of the stone cold stunner and everybody is happy! :D

    25. I wonder if people would still side with NK if he had taken out OneLapWonder

      1. @ridiculous see comment by @malleshmagdum above: for me too it’s not so much about who’s fault the incident was, as it is about Vettel repeating to at least two tv-crews how much of a bad driver/idiot NK, that’s just not very professional, and he should have apologised after landing in Europe at the latest, but so far didn’t.

        Not helped by Horner coming in to say something akin to “let those backmarkers go race on a different track, they may be in F1 but as long as we don’t fear their speed (and protest them?) they should get out of the way.”, but that’s typical of Horner, I suppose.

      2. I wonder, who is this “onelapwonder” you are talking about?

        Vettel – who was just magic in qualfying with that Red Bull in the past 2 years
        But Vettel was taken out by the crash, so that gets rig of the most obvious choice
        So who is on offer:
        Trulli – king of qualifying and leading the Trulli train in races
        Webber – who used to be an ace qualifyer as well
        Hamilton – who has a knack for nailing the lap, if he has a good car to do it with and feels in the right zone
        Or maybe even Ayrton Senna who produced superb and sometimes unbelievable laps in qualifying?

    26. I’m going to go a bit off-topic now but there is something else i need to get off my chest. When drivers are passing certain “slower drivers” and that person doesn’t jump out of the way immediately they have a tendency to wave angrily or give him the bird. I’ve always felt this to be dangerous. All the cars are wearing the FIA road safety stickers so aren’t they sending the wrong message here? Normal people have to keep both hands at the wheel so, why make an exception for F1 drivers? Yesterday someone who was waving at his wife after he had dropped her off. He nearly crashed into the back of me and if that wasn’t bad enough, he was driving a Fiat Panda!

    27. There’s more to Petrov’s interview. He goes on saying: “In much the same way Pic didn’t let me through in Malaysia for an entire lap, despite being one lap behind. Sure, I was mad at him, but I did understand that unnecessary maneuvers can lead to disastrous consequences.”

      So, in essence, the frustration here stems from the fact that Vettel does not recognize lapping backmakers as part of the racing challenge. As a professional pilot and world champion he should have taken more caution while attempting the maneuver, since he KNEW the car ahead is slow and is being driven on a wet track by a driver with little experience.

      Nevertheless, I do agree this was Karthikeyan’f fault, but I had a lot of sympathy for him initially, just because of how rude and arrogant Vettel was about the entire thing. But now, it is getting ridiculous with Narain calling Seb a craybaby and stuff. What is this? A kindergarten?

    28. I honestly don’t see why people are discussing whose fault the accident is. That doesn’t excuse Vettel from what he’s said! In my opinion, if Vettel was a true world champion he would be very embarrassed for what he’s said and would come out and apologize for calling a fellow racer an idiot.

      It doesn’t even matter whose fault it is. How the hell did JB react when Vettel took him out in Spa? And at that time everyone had the rights to criticize Vettel for taking other drivers out.

      Oh, and this is the guy who was very pissed when Alonso didn’t even intentionally put him on the grass in Monza just to do it intentionally to JB a month later. Come on man…

      I’d say Vettel should be very very careful before criticizing another driver for not looking where they’re going.

      1. This is the best comment of the entire debate for me. If he came out and admitted that it was a mistake to say what he said then I think that he would earn a lot more respect. Reminds me of when Hamilton went into Massa’s garage to shake his hand, although admittedly it did take about 10 races!

        1. Well wait for round 10 then, what’s the hurry?

        2. But Hamilton wasn’t the one calling Massa names and weaving his hands, Massa was the one going all crazy and many of their incidents are up to debate. Is not like Hamilton was always at fault.
          I don’t think he even needed to go to Massa, he probably only went because media was driving him crazy asking if he talked to Massa.
          Anyway going to Massa was an act of reconciliation not an act of apology since he had nothing to apologize. He never called Massa names.

      2. @aced – I’m not a Vettel fan, but I don’t really see why he should apologise.

        1) “Cucumber” is a great insult and I shall be applying it myself.
        2) It’s possible to react to such insults with a massive shrug, a yawn and a “whatever”, which is at about the same level of childishness as calling someone a “cry baby”.
        3) Vettel and Karthikeyan are not colleagues; therefore I don’t see that it is unprofessional to trade insults. It’s part of the passion of F1 racing.
        4) The modern fads for “respect” and constantly apologising for everything as a PR exercise seem utterly hypocritical to me. Governments even apologise on behalf of their citizens for events that happened before they were born. What if Vettel says sorry but is not really sorry? Best to wait for both drivers to calm down, get some perspective, grow up a little if needs be, and maybe as @john-h says they will shake hands later – and mean it.

        1. I agree, especially about point number 1 — in fact, I’ve already started using it to excellent effect!

          When people are forced to apologize because their employer’s PR department demands it, does anyone come out of that feeling like anything useful has happened? If the two of them decide talk to each other and sort things out a few races from now — or even at the last race of the season — fine. At least we’ll be reasonably sure it wasn’t completely artificial and orchestrated.

          1. @aka_robyn

            +1 on the apology thing

            1. I also agree on the fake apologies thing. But I never said that Vettel should apologize for PR reasons. He should apologize because he should realize that he’s done something wrong.

    29. Everyone seems to be bumping into the HRTs. These incidents are not their fault, but i think we would be better off without these cars in the race. their pace is just so off. if you were driving a honda civic in the GP and you hadnt made any driving mistakes, let all the other cars past giving them plenty of room, there would still be more risk of an accident just because of the speed difference. Looking at some of the on board footage from the last race, the HRTs seem to be almost standing still in some corners compared to other cars.

      Even in a wet race where the difference in pace between cars is very much decreased, and with safety car periods, the HRTs were still 2 laps down. I mean what is the point?

      1. These cars are within the rules, so they are part of the sport, which means we are not better off without them. When they are not within the rules they are off the track.

      2. That’s a harsh view! The designers and engineers have still managed to build a car which can compete legally, but on a tiny budget compared to some of the other teams. If I were in that position, I’d be proud to be racing my cars even if they came in last every week.

        1. @dirgegirl I agree with you. Out of 12 teams someones going to finish on the bottom. The fact that through all their hardship and troubles they have a car which can compete, as you say, legally and on a reduced budget is fabulous. I’ve said this earlier on different posts on HRT and I’ll say it again that they seem to have a desire and the determination to be in Formula 1 which is really heartening to see. It is not the drivers fault that the car is slow but then they are doing the best they can. If they can stick it who knows maybe 10 years (very optimistic here ) would we see a world champion driving from an HRT? I can only hope…

      3. but i think we would be better off without these cars in the race. their pace is just so off

        That’s what the 107% rule is effectively there for, but where do you draw the line… are you saying that it should be the 106% rule instead? Personally I think as long as the cars are faster than GP2 by a couple of seconds, then they’re fast enough to be in F1.

    30. Good job Kartihikeyan you have already repaid TATA (by taking out Vettel and getting all this publicity) all the millions they are paying HRT for running you. Let’s face it that’s the only way your gonna get publicity in F1. Good job keep it up TATA needs you.

    31. I dont get this, he said he made a mistake by getting on the white line which caused Wheel spin, so he jinked in. He had no choice. This is a racing incident and we should not even be talking about it.

    32. Well, it seems everyone has a strong oppinion on the Vettel/Karthikeyan incident and their subsequent reactions. For me, there is only one thing it highlights: Blue flags need to be seriously looked into.

      If there were no blue flags, I do not think this incident would have occurred. Vettel would have been more carefull when passing, as there would be no expectation for him to get out of the way. Simillarly, I would think Karthikeyan would have been more carefull, as he would know Vettel would have had to fight his way past.

      Added to this, I do not believe Vettel would have made the comments he did, because Karthikeyan would have had the right to race his own race.

      I personally think that blue flags take away from F1, but it’s not up to me to make such a descision. I do think they should be seriously looked at, though. With DRS available and the differences in car performance between the front runners and backmarkers, it should not take more skill than the drivers have to lap cars and make for more exciting racing.

      1. @drmouse That’s a good point. Without the blue flags, this would be much more straightforward.

      2. Agreed….. if a car is fast enough to lap another then the overtake move is going to happen either way. If there were no blue flags then the move would be in racing speeds for both cars, so it would be fun to watch and more importantly the fast and the slow driver would pay attention.

        If a fast car for whatever reason would be out of place then the leader would have to sweat to make the overtake stick which is the fare thing to do, not breeze pass around …..

        Maybe the new teams need the blue flags to go away so then they can gather evenly their race data so they can improve their speed and race performance.

        Kimi was asking in Australia why the marshals waved the blue flag to him. In some specific times the thing was really ridiculous…. even in tv was really obnoxious …. blue flags everywhere….. I think that Webber was asking the same thing (not sure 100%, I heard it in flying lap).

        The difference in qualy is smaller that 107% but in race pace I think that it is much greater….. and the ban of refueling and the Pirellis are not helping to close the gap.

        The first step in that direction is already taken: they can unlap themselves under a safety car. So FIA get rid the blue flags…..

    33. 100% Vettel’s fault, NK got no room, plus he was recovering from an off. Vettel had no right to say what he did, I’ve never liked him.

      1. “I’ve never liked him”-then why try to explain your point?? I dislike Hamilton,but does that make me spew vitriol about him all over the place??

      2. Watch the replays and hear what Narain initially said about getting wheelspin and causing the collision.

    34. NK is a real blunder, period.

    35. It’s funny this is just the sort of incident Hamilton was having last year. I think it’s an early indicator that Vettel is rattled and unfocused in the same way Hamilton was. I don’t think it will be three in a row for Vettel I’m afraid.

      As for the incident itself it’s a 50/50 I think. They both could have left more room. They both tried to move back to the racing line to soon. If Vettel is to get a third world title he needs to learn to avoid this type of incident. Blaming Karthikeyan or any other driver won’t help him on jot.

    36. Keith, today daily round-up must have recorded highest number of comments till now.

      1. @vickyy Actually, as I write this I see Wednesday’s had 100 more!

    37. I Love The Pope
      30th March 2012, 13:25

      Chicane Karthikeyan speaks!

    38. Isn’t all this “sportsmanship” just too overrated? I think so.
      Maybe some want to think that F1 drivers are the sort of 50’s gentlemen racer. But they aren’t.
      If they didn’t furiously hate to loose then they wouldn’t be there.
      Some drivers are better at handling the press then others, and Vettel surely showed that he wasn’t Button’esque good at it. That said. Is it really PR trained robots that we want to see?
      I don’t.
      I like when people, not just racing drivers, speak what they actually think.
      F1 is so politically correct these days, that it does get really annoying.
      How many videos aren’t there on youtube of 80’s-90’s drivers showing the “bird” to left and right because they were held back for half a second.
      It might look silly and childish, but I think it gives them some character.
      It does show their human side.
      We all talk trash about others, and we all get annoyed when things get hot.
      If F1 drivers don’t show that they do the same, it removes their human side and for me at least, makes it harder to associate with them.
      Now Karthikeyan strikes back, and he show that he is just as childish as Vettel, but you know what? I like that. Let them talk trash about each other, even a fight on track would be fantastic, though probably too much to ask for.
      F1 is about passion, and when drivers get mad show that they care, show that they have faults and most importantly show their passion.
      Like when Schumacher, glowing red hot, came storming into the McLaren garage to have “a word..” with DC after their coming together at Spa.
      It was silly yes, but I loved it!

      1. 100% agree

    39. Karthikeyan has made some pretty poor attempts at getting out of the way in the past. I think what this comes down to are the rules concerning the blue flags. Under those rules, Karthikeyan must get out of the way and let Vettel past and this is perhaps why he received the penalty. This seems contradictory to the idea that the car behind is always responsible for passing safely. Karthikeyan did “jink” to the right but Vettel shouldn’t have moved over too quickly either. Racing Incident.

    40. It’s not the first time Vettel reacted in such a manner. Remember Turkey 2010, where Vettel drove past Webber and cut back too fast (in a manner like with Karthikeyan actually). After getting out of the car he made a gesture that Webber was crazy or out of his mind. I think we can get several things out of this:
      1. Vettel should learn not to cut back that fast when overtaking.
      2.Vettel should learn to control his anger.
      3.It’s obvious that when Vettel has a dominant car he is almost faultless, but when his car is even slightly less then the best car he’ll start to produce errors. He is kinda like Massa in that respect, but Vettel atleast keeps speed in his car.

      So strange actually that a person can be so different when he does not have the fastest car. If the Red Bull was whack I could understand, but the fact is that the Red Bull is merely a couple of tenths slower then the McLaren in qualy and roughly the equal in the race. Last year he made Webber look like Massa which isn’t the case this year.

      1. If you watch the footage liked to on the first comment page, it is fairly obvious that Vettel did NOT cut back across.
        There were still at least one and a half car with between his car and the edge of the track. Plenty of space for Karthikeyan to get off slippery white line that he complained about without hitting anyone.
        You can see how the gap between the edge of the track and Karthikeyans car widens massively just before the contact.

        1. i’m not saying it wasn’t Karthikeyan’s fault, but as Keith pointed out vettel also didn’t had to move back accross Karthikeyan as sharply as he did. And there is certainly not 1 1/2 car length between the white line and karth’s car! somewhere between a thirth or half a car, but not more then that; maybe if you calculate in the cerbs but those were wet; if he hitted those he would have spinned. Also note that they actually drove towards eachother, while Vettel was almost back at the racing line. It is as Keith said: Vettel didn’t had to cut back, which is cutting back, and Karthikeyan didn’t had to move to the right.

          1. No not between one and a half car between the white line and Karthikeyans car. I probably didn’t express my self very clearly.
            There was one and a half car between the left edge of Vettel’s car and the edge of the track. The gap which Karthikeyan should have used to get off the white line without crashing into anyone.
            But Karthikeyan moved back on the track, and kept going right instead of driving straight as soon as he hit the track completely.
            Vettel left a constant gap to the edge of the track, and plenty of space to get another car in there.
            In hindsight that wasn’t enough, but we have seen other drivers get their car into gaps with just a centimetre to space in each side without crashing into everything, so I guess Vettel just had too high expectations for Karthikeyan’s precision.

            1. I clearly see vettel steering towards karthikeyan; same way around also yes and karth. certainly is performing his action first, but right before the accident vettel turns towards karth. You can see that on the onboard footage of vettel.

            2. The reason why he is turning into Narain was for the fact there was a corner before the straight. When vettel was on the straight he was clearly moving away from Narain and giving plenty of room.

              This theory of vettel turning in Narain is a complete fabrication by the public. Vettel stayed straight, Narain swerved right and was looking in his mirror during the process he would of seen Vettel if he was looking ahead.

    41. If Vettel has the opinion that there are drivers out there who , in his eyes , are in his way you would think he would drive to avoid them as much as they should be avoiding him.
      When drivers overtake back markers they should still drive with some thoughts on the current situation.

      50/50 in my eyes , hope they both learn from it .

    42. A lot of people have commented on how much Narain cut across to his right, but if you look at the car in front of both Narain and Vettel you can see what resembles as the racing line. So I would say that Narain was following the racing line. The front on video has concluded to me that it was in fact Vettel that cut across to the racing line without ensuring that he’d completely cleared the HRT. An overhead shot would definitely clear Narain of being 100% in the wrong, but that said, being a back marker he should’ve backed off on the throttle. It could have also been possible that he was racing for a place (see the car affront when Vettel was overtaking), hence Narain was being more agressive on the throttle.

      1. Vettel was also trying to take the racing line in Turkey 2010, and that didn’t go well did it?

    43. Vettel certainly let his emotions get the better of him, but his real headache is that Red Bull do not have the performance advantage over their rivals that they once had. That is certainly clear after the first two grands prix of 2012, and more to the point, I think Red Bull are struggling to find away around their problems.
      Vettel’s a great driver and a worthy double world champion, but its easy to be nice when you are winning everything in sight and everybody else is trying in vain the catch you. There is no doubt that Vettel used his superior 2011 Red Bull chassis to devastating effect last year, but now he is fighting other drivers with equal if not better machines. With that there is also the expectation of being a double world champion, which even Fernando Alonso has found difficult at times.
      What we should remember is that Vettel is our youngest world champion, two years younger than Hamilton and seven years younger than Jenson Button. As Hamilton has had to do, Vettel has to learn to grow up in the limelight and that means taking the criticism that goes with making mistakes. He is not a Toro Rosso rookie driver anymore, those days are gone. He is at the sharp end of the business, and sometimes that can be a lonely place to be when things go wrong.
      As for other drivers, ofcourse some are going to criticise. Its often the ones that have never won anything or never going to, and would love to be in Vettel’s shoes. Thats human nature too, and something he has to learn to live with!

    44. Oh come on guys, lets move on. Both of them are great drivers, lets agree to it. Give Narain a Red bull and you’ll know how good a driver he is. Similarly give Seb a HRT and all of a sudden people will say how good a driver Narain is and not seb. Give all the drivers same car and then we’ll know who’s awesome. Just look at Alonso, with the slow Ferrari he went on to win the race, thats what champions are made of. For people like us it’s easy to blame the drivers but you need to appreciate the efforts put in my them o reach where they are now. Narain never really got a car to show his true potential and people just hold that against him Feel sad abt it sometimes.

      1. Give Narain a Red bull and you’ll know how good a driver he is. Similarly give Seb a HRT and all of a sudden people will say how good a driver Narain is and not seb.

        I disagree. Put Vettel in an HRT? He’d use the talent he showed in the STR to beat his teammate and earn a promotion, like Alonso and the others to graduate from Minardi. Put Narain in a Red Bull? Mark Webber isn’t a slouch and all evidence points to Webber outclassing Narain to the extent that people still wouldn’t believe Karthikeyan was a particularly good driver.

        Narain never really got a car to show his true potential and people just hold that against him Feel sad abt it sometimes.

        Perhaps the Jordan and HRT weren’t great cars, but Montiero and Liuzzi beat Narain in those same cars. Yet they are the ones who aren’t in F1. I can agree with your point about appreciating the efforts to get into F1, though.

    45. There have been 3 “World” Champions to disgrace the sport over the time that I have watched this sport.
      1) Schumacher
      2) Alonso
      3) Vettel
      And the behavior of the most recent one somehow confirms my thoughts. More than one world championship gets into their puny egoistic heads.
      I wish Mark Webber or Nico Rosberg wins this time around, but it seems unlikely considering the current state of affairs. Maybe Romain Grosjean will do something special. Please Lord. Help Us.
      Parity was never a part of Formula One, ever. and now more than ever we need a miracle to save this sport from itself :)

      1. I mean “Of course” 2-time world champions….

        1. My Bad… of course.

      2. Does: “Lie-gate”, “ali-g gate”, “speeding on a domestic road…. gate”, “swearing on twitter gate” and “safety car gate” come to mind?

        Vettel loses his temper once and now he is a disgrace to the sport with the likes of Massa, Lewis, Maldonado and Sutil doing far worse than calling someone a cucumber. Vettel might not be a saint but he is still 2-3 leagues below some of these drivers I bring up above.

        1. Please stop “gate”ing everything thing. Watergate was a long time ago and this “new” fad is very drool.

          Vettel loses his temper once

          Are you sure you have been watching formula 1?
          He is absolutely incapable of dignity in losing, I only point this out because it seems to me, there is a threshold in what turns drivers from being homo sapiens to ego sapiens. Vettel is a few leagues below because he is NOW in this position. Remember lewis in 2009? No one is a saint around here, let alone Vettel. I only expect someone who is a multiple world champion to be gracious and not cocky. Is that too much to ask?

          1. Trust me, been watching F1 longer than you have buddy and no multiple world champion is graceful in defeat, they only want to win so keep hoping for somebody different while I’ll worry who will win the WDC this year.

            Yeah Vettel is a “disgrace” because he called a guy who ruined his race a cucumber…

            I bet you have called people worse so maybe you should worry about yourself maybe?

            1. Well said george.

            2. I would be very happy when people start calling the crash-kid a “cucumber” or maybe a “potato” for ruining their race. He obviously needs something other than red bull in his drinks packet.
              I would be very worried when people ask others to worry about themselves, turkey…

            3. @ozzy – People have already called Vettel names for ruining their race, so don’t worry, your double standard has been exposed :)

      3. There have been 3 “World” Champions to disgrace the sport over the time that I have watched this sport.

        According to @ozzy , calling someone a cucumber is a disgrace, but Piquet Jr. deliberately crashing his car is okay. And apparently calling another driver an idiot is a crime, while Hamilton calling Massa and Maldonado stupid is fine.

        1. So let us not forget who was the one to eventually benefit from the “CrashGate”. Alonso still counts that as his win. Shame.

          1. @ozzy That comment in no way justifies not adding Piquet Jr. to your list.

            1. You obviously don’t know how F1 works. (******-Off) Fernando Alonso + (Money-Hungry) Flavio Briatore > (Desperate) Nelson Piquet Jr. Maths.

            2. @ozzy – Piquet still shouldn’t have done it. It was a dangerous and stupid act, and it’s plainly ridiculous for you to list someone for venting some frustration and calling another driver a couple of names while seemingly sweeping under the carpet the comments and actions of other drivers.

      4. So according to you @ozzy , Hamilton’s comments last year after Monaco weren’t a disgrace but Vettel’s comments after Malaysia were?

          1. @ozzy – I can also see that Coulthard’s finger got the better of you. He didn’t apologise. So only multiple world champions have done anything to disgrace the sport? Rubbish.


      5. Hmm, interesting. Just curious: when world champion Ayrton Senna smacked Eddie Irvine for holding him up while he was lapping him during the 1993 Japanese GP, what did that do to the sport?

        1. Sorry, but I was not lucky enough to watch Senna in any guise. I started watching F1 in 1997. I wish I could watch all the old F1 races and share my thoughts but I only have second-hand reports, so I cannot comment on Senna.

    46. Either way, it doesn’t matter what Karthikeyan says… no-one actually really cares what he says, he’ll always be nothing more then a mobile chicance brought in to make up the numbers.
      Or should I say, Karthi-who?

      1. It’s so easy to be disrespectful of a backmarker, isn’t it? I found it very interesting that Karthikeyan mentioned in his BBC interview that some drivers took a bullying approach to backmarkers, and that he in that position was very conscious of trying to get out of their way. Surely the best drivers in their very good cars should be able to gauge overtaking distances well and not leave it to those in less developed cars to avoid all the possible incidents, especially on a still drying track. Vettel was hasty in assuming where Karthikeyan would be and so he cut in too fast, similar to what we sometimes experience out on the public highways.

      2. Yes, If u have any respect for F1 you would know that without the small teams there is no F1. I find it appalling that there is absolutely no respect for small teams any more from any of the “F1 Fans”. This brand for “Fans” will only last till their team is there and don’t really care about the sport. I have watched many live chats on F1fanatic and its an utter disgrace. I hope u get a chance to “run” anything in your life and utterly fail at it. Please F1Fanatics, have some respect.

    47. broadswordcallin
      31st March 2012, 0:03

      Greetings. There is an lot of opinion on Mr V v Mr K’s handbags at dawn..
      Could we look forward to China please, with some predictions on the first 3 past the post.
      I call Button, Hamilton, Massa- ( not looking for your views on my views, just your views)

      Keep the faith.

    48. I think that the 107% rule should count from the pole position time, no the 1st position in Q1. Then all of this will be irrelevant as the pointless teams at the back will never qualify and we can get on with some racing.

      1. Then how do you propose Formula 1 grows as a sport?

        Every sport needs new blood.

    49. Hamilton in Manila??? I’ve missed that one. It’s very rare for a F1 driver to visit our place and a former world champion. Even its a charity work. If I’ve known it sooner I should have gone to the place. Got his autograph and pictures… even he’s not my no 1 f1 driver… sad. sad. sad.

    50. Little late to the party here. The issue of Vettel/Karthikeyan really doesn’t need analysing too much. It was an acccident that if it hadn’t of involved Tue current world champion wouldn’t be receiving so much attention. Vettel was in the wrong, plain and simple.

      If he makes a habit of blaming other drivers he will start to look foolish. I thi.k he’s clever enough to know not to do that but at least he’s showing that he is in fact human.

      1. Trenthamfolk (@)
        1st April 2012, 18:06

        I agree, apart from it being Vettel’s fault… but he is going to start looking like Alonso if he carries on this line!

    51. Trenthamfolk (@)
      1st April 2012, 18:03

      I say good on Karthikeyan for giving a bit of lip back. OK, it was his fault, and the stewards punished him accordingly, but Vettel has to wade in with the insults? That appears to be a rather feeble effort to make himself feel better. Wars of words are fun, and it appears to me that Karthikeyan may have the upper hand when it comes to the official F1 language. English, of course!

      And who calls a bad driver a cucumber? I could tell you what I all them! Anyway, I thought the Germans loved cucumbers, especially the pickled variety?

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