Alonso on pole again in rain-hit German GP qualifying

2012 German Grand Prix

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Fernando Alonso starts from pole position for the second race in a row after another wet qualifying session in Germany.

The Ferrari driver survived a near-miss with his team mate in Q2 and will share the front row of the grid with title rival Sebastian Vettel.


Qualifying began on a dry track but with clouds gathering the drivers did not waste a moment in heading out to set their first times. Within minutes the track had all 24 cars circulating, and inevitably some drivers having to cope with slow traffic.

The first of those was Nico Hulkenberg, who had to dodge past a series of slower cars in the final sector as he completed his first lap.

Lewis Hamilton was fastest of the first group of runners, setting a 1’16.221. Team mate Jenson Button was briefly third with the Sauber of Sergio Perez between them.

But as the session continued without rain falling, thoughts turned to the battle to escape the bottom seven. Hulkenberg was the first to return to the track having fallen to the dreaded 18th, but was able to claim a place in Q2 with his next run.

Michael Schumacher cut it incredibly fine. Despite doing his final lap on the harder mediums tyres, he claimed 17th place by five hundredths of a second. He was a thousandth of a second slower than Romain Grosjean, who was visibly fighting with the Lotus.

Their improvements relegated Jean-Eric Vergne into the bottom seven – he was eliminated in Q1 for the sixth time this year.

Drivers eliminated in Q1

18 Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1’16.741
19 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham-Renault 1’17.620
20 Vitaly Petrov Caterham-Renault 1’18.531
21 Charles Pic Marussia-Cosworth 1’19.220
22 Timo Glock Marussia-Cosworth 1’19.291
23 Pedro de la Rosa HRT-Cosworth 1’19.912
24 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1’20.230


Q1 had stayed dry but a huge clap of thunder shook the track before Q2 began. As the session began rain was already falling and the teams scrambled to exchange slicks for intermediates and get their drivers out before the rain got too heavy of the lightly-grooved tyres.

Button’s crew won that race and he took his place among the quickest runners. But it was his team mate who found the most time in the slippery conditions, continuing to improve even as the rain worsened, his intermediate tyres giving greater grip.

Alonso impressively went second fastest with his first run despite team mate Felipe Massa running wide in front of him at turn eight and badly holding him up. Alonso secured a place in the final ten but Massa did not.

Race engineer Rob Smedley urged Massa back onto the track on full wet tyres later in the session, optimistically urging him to find the missing half-second on a now-drenched track.

The two Sauber drivers failed to make the cut – Sergio Perez was on course to eliminate Kimi Raikkonen until he ran wide in the final sector. Raikkonen’s team mate Grosjean failed to make the cut after losing his KERS.

Michael Schumacher claimed second fastest, almost seven-tenths of a second slower than Hamilton, with Vettel third.

Drivers eliminated in Q2

11 Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1’39.789
12 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1’39.933
13 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1’39.985
14 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1’40.212
15 Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 1’40.574
16 Bruno Senna Williams-Renault 1’40.752
17 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1’41.551


The rain stopped early in Q3 but left a near-flooded track. Several drivers complained about aquaplaning and Hulkenberg even lost control of his car completely on the curved straight leading to the Spitzkehre hairpin. Fortunately he didn’t hit anything and was able to continue.

Full wet weather tyres were the order of the day and several drivers chose to put a fresh set of them on halfway through session in order to obtain the best of the conditions. Hamilton did not, and the McLaren driver went from being the pace-setter in the first two parts to just eighth-fastest.

Team mate Button did put on another set of full wets but felt it hadn’t been the right way to go. He ended up just seven-hundredths of a second faster than his team mate.

But Alonso used his fresh rubber to perfection. He’d already set one time good enough for pole position and his final effort moved him even further ahead.

Vettel took second after running wide at the Spitzkehre. Earlier in the session he’d remonstrated with his team about being held up by his team mate: “What is Mark doing?” complained Vettel on the radio. “Instead of letting me by he slows me down.”

Webber was third fastest, but his gearbox change penalty will promote Schumacher and Hulkenberg to row two – the latter setting an impressive lap after his spin.

Top ten in Q3

1 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1’40.621
2 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1’41.026
3 Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1’41.496
4 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1’42.459
5 Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1’43.501
6 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault 1’43.950
7 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1’44.113
8 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1’44.186
9 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1’44.889
10 Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault 1’45.811

2012 German Grand Prix

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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109 comments on “Alonso on pole again in rain-hit German GP qualifying”

  1. What a beast of a driver. Not sure he’s going to keep that P1 tomorrow, though! but at least Massa’s not close enough to give him the position, hehe!

    BTW, the TV drector is such a clown. He showed Button sliding around his last lap, which was “good enough” for 6th, when Vettel was coming close.

  2. And people were mocking him for saying “it is too wet”.
    Fernando dropping jaws again!

  3. I would say this qualifying session was really one of the best this year. Great to see them keeping it on track in these conditions.

    Amazing driving from Alonso again, although it certainly helps to have good downforce (fastest 2 cars up front). I guess McLaren messed up their tactics in a wet session once again. And a very good drive from Hulkenberg to land a second row grid spot.

    1. Mclaren looked good until rain starts. Their Q3 was disaster but I think the race would be way better. Meanwhile Red Bull was not so impressive in Q1 but they became stronger in Q2 and Q3. It would be great since the race is expected to be dry.

      1. Their Q3 was disaster

        All too common for Mclaren at the moment I think.

    2. i think alonso drove the best of the top 3 cars drivers in q3. mclaren looked good until q3. its hard to tell the order of speed with the top 3 cars. i think alonso is doing a fantastic job but now getting 2 poles in a row, and it is a terrific effort by ferrari to get those pole positions after the qualifying pace they had at the start of the year. i think vettel will win, but alonso is looking good for the championship and can score another valuable haul of points tomorrow.

  4. Wow. That was amazing. Q1 was exciting and later part of Q2 was a little of lottery. Q3 was another classic qualifying like Silverstone. Considering dry Q1 and full wet Q3, I think Ferrari is the best-balanced team. They weren’t fastest in they won’t fastest in wet.(yes, Alonso got pole but it’s down to his brilliant drive and Vettel’s mistake.) but overall good. Lotus and Mclaren, Mercedes was good in Q1 and Red Bull struggled in Q1. now they’re P2 and P3. It would be interesting.

    BTW, finally I expected right pole seater in prediction championship first time! I failed last time because I didn’t choose Alonso even though I had chosen him entire season. Have faith! :D

  5. Good job Fernando. Wow 43 y.o. Michael still brilliant

    1. Schumi has given a better qualyfying performance this year in the last 3 years for sure. Four top 3 appearances compared to Nico. Their H2H is 4 – 6 favouring Nico.

      1. Its 5-5 actually. they are even now.

    2. Yep a great performance by Schumi in his home event, pity there’s barely a mention of it in the qualifying report above but oh well…

      1. He’s mentioned in all three parts of the report, which is more than most drivers.

  6. alonso vs red bull again

  7. Fantastic from Alonso once again. I feel sorry for Kimi Räikkönen though, who just can’t seem to catch a break. He was quickest in Q1 on the slower Medium tyres, with a combination of track and conditions that shouldn’t really suit the Lotus, but then couldn’t find the speed in the wet. It’s up to him to do that, of course, so I’m not saying it’s bad luck, but again it seemed that things might go his way and then circumstances conspired against him. If we get a dry race he could still make hay tomorrow though.

    1. Raikkonen set his Q1 lap using Softs, not mediums. It was McLaren that was looking fastest in the dry. They ran 1.16.2’s and didn’t opt for a run on the soft.

      1. Actually Raikkonen was on mediums; it was the Force India’s and JEV who pitted for softs.

        1. No he did his best lap on softs.

  8. Aussie TV saying there was tension between Webber and Vettel after qualifying, did I miss something??

    1. Before Alonso got Pole, Vettel was delayed by Webber on his previous Pole lap.

    2. Not really, Vettel was asked if Webber held him up in Q3, Vettel said yes but it’s hard to see anyone in the mirrors in those conditions.

    3. ShaneB457 (@shaneb12345678910)
      21st July 2012, 14:25

      Webber sort of held up Vettel and didnt let him through.. there wasnt really tension though after quali.. They just had a word with each other from what I saw.

      1. ok thanks! doesnt matter anyway, if dry, Mark will find it hard to get near the top 2 without some luck and excellent strategy.

    4. it not a big deal it just vettel stuck behind webber while doing his fastest lap and i don’t think he knew who in front of him with all that spay coming out behind of webber car

      1. He knew it was Webber, and complained rather loudly on the radio, which was aired on the pit lane channel.
        However, I believe at the time Webber was being held up, too.

    5. Aussie TV saying there was tension between Webber and Vettel after qualifying, did I miss something??

      Greg Rust, Daryl Beattie and Craig Baird are probably the worst commentators I have ever seen. Dry, dispassionate, with fairly below average knowledge of F1; and poor historical knowledge of the drivers, the teams or the staff. They say whats written on the piece of paper and that is all. Very boring. They seriously need to get themselves a new job.

      1. I totally agree with you Maksutov, they are absolutely awful commentators and painful to tolerate, most obviously when the audio feed to BBC drops out mid race. Ten/OneHD coverage has steadily declined in the last few years which is particularly frustrating considering Webber’s success and now that we have a second Aussie on the grid now. The slap in the face is when they advertise the old movies they will be showing on the HD channel during the race the following day, with the race relegated to non HD Ten.

        1. i like greg rust and daryl beattie. the inclusion of carig baird hasnt been good, some of his views are pretty poor considering he was a high level racing driver. the oneHD coverage is perfect – we get free SKY coverage and every race is live and free! while others like in the UK, where the sky coverage comes from have to pay for it, or they have to wait for delayed telecast bbc races, so please show some gratitude! the only thing i dislike about the onehd coverage is the “innovative hairloss solutions” advertisements.

          1. Advanced Hair… Yeah Yeah… Gotta love Warnie don’t you?

          2. We actually have it pretty good in Aus now, I’m just upset I can’t see it because I’ll be at work AND THE NO LONGER SHOW DELAYED RACES A FEW HOURS LATER ARRRGGHHHH.


      2. @maksutov Agreed, they’re fairly rubbish. Not too mention the ads..

        “Wow, what exciting on track action.. Let’s go to a break!”

        “Only one lap too go.. Let’s take a break!”

        “Hello and welcome back.. Let’s go to a break!”

        1. @nackavich

          Was that a break you said? I know, lets have a break!

          I’m honestly surprised it hasn’t all just turned into one large kit-kat ad… -.-

        2. @nackavich

          Oh yes, and the breaks… Tell me about it.

          I remember once (and I am pretty sure this happened on more than one occasion) that there was literally 1:30 seconds of coverage at the start, followed by a 5 minute break and another 4 minutes of coverage followed by a 5 minute break….; Drove me mad. And they always put the commercial break on exactly when there is critical action on track.

          I understand some level of commercial breaks are required to maintain the support for hosting an F1 on free tv. But for crying out loud, not so often…

  9. Kimi will win tomorrow if it’s dry. He was really quick on the Primes.

    1. Looks like overtaking will be easy this time, so traffic won’t be as much of a problem as it might have been in Valencia or Silverstone, for example. Wouldn’t rule him out.

  10. Alonso proving time and time again why he is the best driver on the grid. Either that or Ferrari have been lying to us the whole time about their car. A few more races and Fernando might well have his third WDC title.

    McLaren seem to be totally out of sorts. I think they are stuck in development limbo and cant seem to decide if they should develop this years car or junk it and develop next years car.

    1. You will be eating your words when you see them in the dry. Teams dont develop for the wet.

    2. you are too quick to judge, the mclaren is still a faster car, and most likely still faster then ferrari over a dry weekend.

  11. The petulant drivers about the conditions end up on top in qualifying once more, I find Alonso complaining on the team radio in Q2 quite perturbing & disturbing at the same time, it’s sad to an extent from a spectator’s perspective because these are the best drivers in the world & surely they’re able to brave the harsh conditions, but you can’t take away the correct calls Red Bull & Ferrari made as opposed to McLaren. Great to see Schumi up there again in P3 If you take Webber’s penalty into account… and also Hulk! Hopefully! – It should be interesting unlike Silverstone, please let the race come to fruition.

    1. It does seem Drivers these days want all the money and absolutely no risk. If that’s the case we could all be F1 drivers because lets face it, we might be super quick in a video game but it’s doing those laps with the knowledge that one slight mistake could kill you that stops us.

      1. Yes of course, that’s the only difference between a video game and the real thing…

        So if I develop a death wish maybe I should write to Horner and tell him to get rid of Vettel because I can lap quicker than him in my gaming room…

      2. @maxthecat So you think I could go through the Loews hairpin in Monaco as fast as any F1 driver? I’m reasonably quick in video games and it’s pretty much impossible to die in that corner nowadays.

        1. @enigma I’ll take that as a challenge.

    2. A ton of drivers say that every time it rains, it just so happens that they did not put those radio chats on the Telly today. Last race all the good drivers, including HAM said the same thing.

    3. @younger-hamii It’s not all about being brave. The cars are design in a way that makes it impossible to drive when there’s a lot of standings water. We saw a glimpse of that today with Hulkenberg losing it on the curved straight. Something similar was happening in Silverstone. Sometimes there’s just too much water for the car to handle and there’s nothing a driver can do about it. It’s not about being brave or skilled, it’s a lottery at that point.

      Also, the spray and poor visibility. Some onboards looked downright scary today. It would be safe if there was only one driver on the track, but imagine someone spinning and pointing in the wrong direction at the end of the long straight – and then being hit by someone who’s going 280kph without seeing anything. That’s potentially deadly and that’s what the race direction wants to prevent.

      I prefer a red flag to a driver getting hurt badly because they have no control whatsoever on what’s going on.

    4. @younger-hamii

      I think you need to reassess your thought process… Because I find it offensive you you seem to think risk should be part of their job.

  12. WADA has raided the Ferrari garage to test Alonso’s car for doping :p

  13. The rain certainly didn’t do McLaren any favours. The camera didn’t pick up Hamilton in the second half of Q3, but when the track was at its best, I saw him put in first sector times in the 24 seconds, about 2 seconds off the pace. Button finally outqualified his team mate, but he’s still 4 seconds off the pace. A dry qualifying would have seen them further up, surely. It’s a pity for McLaren and their fans, because even with a good car it’s not likely they will take a lot of points of Alonso and Red Bull tomorrow.

    1. They don’t start too far back to make a difference, though it’s hard to tell where they are in the dry since only Q1 was dry. Button got a lot of race preparation done in P2 and P3 though, which can only be a good thing!

  14. If Button gets off the grid in front of Lewis all hell will break loose. We all know it takes Jenson more time to settle into race pace, Lewis will need to get round him

    1. I would be more concerned about Maldonado ahead of him.

      1. Especially considering that the Mclarens might not even have the same pace as him.

        (God forbid Lewis and Pastor get near each other.)

    2. There will be a “Button, Lewis is faster than you” moment then. Lewis is a title contender and Button is not.

      1. I would be surprised if McLaren were to use team orders, especially early in a race. We’ve seen the team let them race wheel to wheel before, so why not now?

        1. mcalren have got a great drs system, and on this race track they will have lots of easy overtakes, including hamilton passing button possibly on lap 3 or 4

        2. Well I hope there are no team orders. That would be good for Alonso ;)

  15. Where did Kimi’s great speed go when it got wet? Looks like Lotus is now fast even if it’s not that hot – but they’re slow if it’s wet. Alonso was magnificient today.

    1. I would guess that since the car was already twitchy in the dry (just look at Grosjean in Q1) it became a bit of a nightmare in the wet.

      1. But Kimi’s car didn’t look twitchy at all in dry.

  16. Raikkonen for Podium tomorrow :)

    1. That’s possible if we get dry race tomorrow.

  17. I am sooooooooooooooo pleased… Vettel´s face was simply a poem… and then in the press confference he tried to “laugh down” Alonso´s pole by calling it a lottery… I mean… you can call it a lottery once but twice in a row in practically the same conditions… well he should think things over. You can never count out Alonso. It´s just goes to show that with an “inferior” car (third at best) he has the hands to put it on pole!!
    I feel sorry for Massa… he showed good pace but fell. Michael was once again brilliant!! It seems he is finally having a bit of luck on his side!
    It sucks about Hamilton… he was quick all day long even in the wet… and all of a sudden he´s behind Button?
    Kimmi was impressive too!

    I don´t want to jinx it but this year is looking darn good for SF and Fernando Alonso! I hope all goes well tomorrow and I definitely expect a heck of a race!!

    1. In normal conditions probably the Ferrari isn’t the strongest car, but in the wet it has been quickest since the start of the year. I’m thinking about their victory in Malaysia, their pole today and two weeks ago.

      I’m getting a little bit tired of people saying that Ferrari has the worst car ever, and they are getting good results only because of Fernando’s immense ability.
      Alonso is one of the best drivers of the grid, no doubt about it, but we can’t ignore that the F2012 is a very good car right now.

      1. I’m getting a little bit tired of people saying that Ferrari has the worst car ever, and they are getting good results only because of Fernando’s immense ability.
        Alonso is one of the best drivers of the grid, no doubt about it, but we can’t ignore that the F2012 is a very good car right now.


      2. I’m getting a little bit tired of people saying that Ferrari has the worst car ever, and they are getting good results only because of Fernando’s immense ability.

        I can totally relate to that since I for one was a bit tired of people defending Vettel saying that the season he had last year was not all due to the RB7… But seriously.. if you believe the Ferrari is actually a good car, then please enlighten me as to WHY Massa hasn´t been up there helping Alonso with the points for the CWC?? And please don´t beat the “Massa hasn´t been the same since his accident” drum… that´s like kicking a dead horse…

        The F2012 has improved but it still isn´t the best car… Alonso just makes it look that good!

        1. Nobody is arguing that Alonso’s results are entirely down to the car. He’s clearly having a super season.

          But you were tired of people defending Vettel last year. Why shouldn’t people have defended him? He after all, beat his teammate by almost 150 points. There were grounds to say it was him that made his car look as good as it did as well.

          1. Dude… I will not go at it again… It has been thouroughly discussed that the RB7 favoured SV´s driving style and it did not suit MW´s. You see… MW is an “old school” driver and just didn´t get used to the “PS3ish” behavior of the RB7. Now that the “blowing” is taken out of the equation, things seem pretty much back to normal in my opinion and he is beating his teammate so far. This is my opinion and just that… make nothing more of it… oh and BTW, I was replying to Yobo01… so please, stop trying to pick a “fight” with me. Everybody is entilted to their opinions man…

          2. @catracho504 I’m not picking a fight with you. Just stating that Vettel did a great job last season (voted driver of the year on this site as well), like Alonso has done this year :)

          3. @catracho504 There’s a difference between picking a fight (which @david-a is not doing) and refuting what you’re saying in your comments (which is what @david-a is actually doing). When you make a point of not just praising Alonso but also simultaneously insulting Vettel, Vettel’s fans are likely to do just that: refute what you’re saying. When you make comments in a public forum where people come to have discussions, people will probably…discuss.

          4. @aka_robyn I agree with what you say… I for one enjoy discussing these things but you see… I already know david-a´s position and I want to avoid him because we have very different opinions and I´m just “old” and have my mind set on some things and nobody is gonna ever make me change the way I think. He believes Vettel was the better driver last year (the numbers say he was) but, I believe that the real champion was the RB7 and i believe that a lot of McLaren, Lotus, Ferrari and basically anybody else that isn´t an RBR fan will agree with me on that or at least a vast majority will… so you see, discussing that with him is like beating on a dead horse!
            I apologized at the begining of everything if my comment stung a bit or touched a nerve and am in no way trying to pick a fight. I was simply stating that the “champion” was trying to deminish Alonso´s acomplishment by saying it was a lottery and even though it wasn´t an RBR fan saying that, it was the “champion” that said it and so i felt the need to deminish him just as he did Alonso… simple as that…

          5. @david-a
            Nobody is arguing that Alonso’s results are entirely down to the car. He’s clearly having a super season.

            But you were tired of people defending Vettel last year. Why shouldn’t people have defended him? He after all, beat his teammate by almost 150 points. There were grounds to say it was him that made his car look as good as it did as well.

            Again, I was not replying to you, my comment was intended for yobo01… If I would´ve been replying to you, i would have added the +1 in the quote… Please… let´s not go at it again dude! Whenever i want to reply something you say, you will know it! And I hope this makes it perfectly clear that I am trying to avoid you.

          6. F1fanNL (@)
            21st July 2012, 22:49

            MW is an “old school” driver and just didn´t get used to the “PS3ish” behavior of the RB7. Now that the “blowing” is taken out of the equation, things seem pretty much back to normal in my opinion and he is beating his teammate so far.

            That explains why Vettel beat Webber in 2009 without any form of blowing….

            Also, if not for a failing alternator Vettel would still be leading the championship. In Bahrein and Valencia Webber couldn’t even get close to Vettel’s pace. All without the off throttle blowing of the diffusor. Furthermore, Webber has only really beat Vettel 3 times this season. That’s not exactly beating your teammate.

            Face it, your arguments hold no ground whatsoever. You criticize/diminish others for praising Vettel’s performance last year but then you go and do the same with Alonso. And then you expect people to respect your opinion? Hahahaha, now that’s a good one.

          7. This is really stupid.

            Both drivers have done some very impressive things, and both may have had great cars to back them up at one point or another.

      3. While it is not a dog, it certainly is not the fastest in the dry. In the wet the car makes less of a difference. That said, the Ferrari in the wet is probably one of the best. Teamed with Alonso, the wet is their playground.

        1. I totally agree with you there man! I couldn´t have said it better myself!

        2. It’s no longer uncompetitive in the dry though is it?

          I mean, I think it’s quicker than the Mclaren or Lotus, and much quicker than the Merc.
          It appears the only car that can compete with it is the Red Bull. And even then the Ferrari is close enough that they can still beat the bulls.

          1. The RBR and Mclaren are faster in the dry. You saw how quick the RBR cars where at Valencia (1 sec a lap faster) and Webber was able to catch up and overtake Alonso in the dry at Silverstone. The Mclarens latest updates were very impressive this weekend and even Alonso has come out and said they are faster than the Ferrari in the dry.

  18. Good qualifying, Alonso turning the so called ‘lottery’ into a season characterised by consistency ad brilliance. Though patriotism leads me to wish for Webber to finish in front of him he deserves all the acolades he receives.
    Rosberg again looked slow, Mercedes in general seem to have lost a lot of pace from the beginning of the season (unless it’s wet and your last name is Schumacher).
    Looking to see how far McLaren can move forward during tomorrows race, especially with their dry pace.

    1. @johnson102 , The thing is the whole season is a lottery… the cars are pretty even but as you correctly mentioned, Alonso´s brilliance and consistency has him where he is right now. It just ticked me off hearing Vettel say that this qualy was a “lottery”… I mean… hey.. the same guy that got the pole last time in the same conditions got it again! I guess it just stings him that he got pipped not once but twice since Vettel couldn´t take it away from Alonso and in the end Alonso just slammed one more lap quicker than his last! ;)
      I think Mr. SV should respect FA a bit more… FA actually does work for his results in inferior equipment to what SV gets!

      1. @catracho504 – SV using the word “lottery” to describe the wet conditions really pales in comparison to some of the criticism he receives for his success, not least the assumption that he doesn’t work for his results (like what you’ve just implied).

        1. @david-a , That is your opinion and I will not dispute it as you should not dispute mine but you see, the thing is that FA hasn´t had a devastatingly dominant car… SV has and that kind of takes away a bit from his achievements.
          This is going to be a never ending discussion… the fans will always support him saying it was not all due to the RB7 and the other guys will always say he cruised his way to being a 2 time WDC due to the RB7. I for one, am one of those who will always say that it was the RB7 all the way… When we get to see SV drive a car that is good for 7th or 8th and see him win the race or the championship, then and only then will I recognize him or say he´s an excellent driver(Please don´t bring out the TR pole and win in Monza, that´s getting old and besides, those where exceptional conditions, feakish if you´d like).
          It has taken me a long time to accept that LH is an excellent driver but I have now and it´s all because of what I have seen him do in not such good cars.
          And I´m sorry if I touched a nerve by saying FA works for his results… but it´s true… and it ticked me off listening to SV say that due to the conditions it was a “lottery” as to deminish Alonso´s achievement… That is why I said that he has gotten his 2 poles in identical conditions as well as his 1st victory of the season… That kind of delivers some kind of a message and I guess it might sting SV and his supporters that there is someone on the grid far more talented than him. I for one respect a driver more in wet conditions because it demands something extra out of a driver.

          I´m not trying to pick a fight here buddy… but one should show some respect when you see such performances. How many performances like those have we seen from SV? I remember watching him go off once in the wet and he cursed at the car and ended the comment by saying game over… Can´t remember which race or what year. It´s just my opinion that getting 2 poles in a row on wet conditions is no easy feat and one should recognize that! They don´t have to but they should…

          Peace out David!

          1. Well, I disagree, but then that’s just differences of opinion. You could argue that SV had a dominant car in 2011, but if you exploit that advantage fully, then that driver deserves the recognition.

            I don’t believe either Mclaren driver for instance, was as good as Vettel or Alonso last year, looking at the bloated margin between Vettel and Button (2011 runner-up), and the shinkage in the gap between the Mclarens and Alonso’s Ferrari.

          2. Gotta disagree with you there. The fact that Vettel had a great car does not in any way diminish winning the WDC by 122pts, 11 GP’s, and 15(?) poles. It’s impressive and those numbers, over a season, are very very rare even with dominant machinery.

            You say you are tired of people defending Vettel, I’m tired of people putting him down.

          3. @colossal-squid
            Yeah…. I guess we would have to go back to 1993 when Prost won his 4th WDC with Williams and the active ride suspension…. Senna complained about the electronics in his day! That´s how dominant that car was… and if you want to go back even further… Just look at the mp4-4 …. Dominant cars are capable of setting those numbers. Michael´s Ferrari was also a beast which set tremendous numbers.
            Of course, you need someone to turn the wheel and shift the gears but heck…. I think Karthikeyan could have won WDC with the RB7…

          4. @catracho504

            Of course, you need someone to turn the wheel and shift the gears but heck…. I think Karthikeyan could have won WDC with the RB7…

            As a Vettel fan, I must say: you made my day :) A few posts above this one you were praising Webber’s “old-school” style that wasn’t suited for “PS3 cars” (a theory which unfortunately you can’t back up), and know you’re saying that Karthikeyan would win the championship with the car Webber couldn’t even manage to finish runner-up. Brilliant.

            Don’t take me wrong, Alonso is having a legendary season, but you seem hell-bent on diminishing Vettel’s achievements, which is in my opinion pretty childish. Every driver works for their results, it doesn’t matter if you drive a MP4/4 or a Life L190. Schumacher probably had the easiest titles in the first half of last decade, but it is undeniable how much he worked for that, how intensively he tested and worked out. If you think Vettel didn’t work for his results, then you have just let your grudge against Vettel blind you. I’m not going to argue with you on the merits for the RB7 because you said yourself that your opinion won’t change (which is a shame), but in my opinion the RB6 was much faster, the RB7 was just more well-rounded.

            And why is Vettel’s win at Monza freakish and Alonso’s poles not? Vettel led a McLaren for the entire race, for goodness sake!

          5. @guilherme

            Vettel led a McLaren for the entire race, for goodness sake!

            Heck… it´s easy to do when your team gambled with a “wet” settup and everybody else had a dry settup….

            (a theory which unfortunately you can’t back up)

            I don´t have to back it up buddy, Webber has said it numerous times that he didn´t feel comfortable with the RB7 and now, SV has said that the RB8 is sort of a handful (those aren´t the exact words but that´s what I understood).

            you seem hell-bent on diminishing Vettel’s achievements

            Far from it sir… I don´t have to diminish anything… SV is taking care of that all by himself… How? Well with his performance so far this season… He isn´t half the driver he was “sold” to us last year… and why??? RB7… nuff said…

            If you think Vettel didn’t work for his results, then you have just let your grudge against Vettel blind you.

            What grudge? SV hasn´t done anything to me personally, of course he worked for his.. he turned the wheel and shifted the gears didn´t he? I just look at things objectively. If anyone is blind in this matter, then it might as well be all the Vettel fans that don´t dare to accept that what he achieved (got handed to him in my opinion) last year was acomplished solely because of the RB7 and If I´m wrong and he really is that good, then where is the kid that got pole every other Saturday and would drive off into victory lane on sunday? I´m sorry guy but, you might be the blind one and I´m just not gonna have this discussion on the froum because I don´t want to get banned or something like that. Freedom of speech is well looked at here… so I´ve heard… ;)


          6. Freedom of speech is not well looked at here… so I´ve heard… ;)

            Where is the edit button when you need it?! lol

          7. @Guilherme has already made most of the salient points and exposed some pretty critical flaws in your logic, and I thank him for that.

            But I’d just like to bring up the point @catracho504 that when you referenced Prost’s and Schumacher’s dominant seasons as a comparison, you were also referencing two of the greatest drivers in the history of the sport. Doesn’t the argument then follow that to be dominant in a dominant car, you also have to be immensely talented?

            Name one ‘Karthikeyian’ that has won in such fashion solely due to a brilliant car. I personally believe that there are no unjust or undeserving Driver’s Champions. They win on the merit, skill of theirs and that of the team. You feel differently with regards to Vettel.

          8. @colossal-squid
            Hmmm lets see now… in My opinion, Prost is a hell of a driver but, and I know I´m gonna get flamed for saying this… he in my opinion would only be a 2 time wdc. Why you ask? Well, Ballestre obviously favoured him in the Suzuka incident which would have kept Senna´s chance for WDC intact, Monaco 1984 also comes to mind…. and the Championship with Williams well… lets say he had, as the great Senna once said, “running shoes and everybody else had lead shoes”. Sort of what happened last year IMHO…
            Schumachers titles well… I won´t dispute those because he is very talented and I still support him even though he´s not in Ferrari anymore but, his Ferrari titles where sort of a gift because he really didn´t have competition with his cars…

            Name one ‘Karthikeyian’ that has won in such fashion solely due to a brilliant car.

            Okay… you got a point there… maybe I did go a bit overboard by picking Karthykeyan…. I should have said Kovalainen or maybe even Grosjean…

            I personally believe that there are no unjust or undeserving Driver’s Champions. They win on the merit, skill of theirs and that of the team. You feel differently with regards to Vettel.

            I somewhat agree with you on that in the sense that they do have to have some skill in order to win but no, I don´t feel differently in regards to Vettel… I just dislike the fact that he was “sold” to the viewers as the “next Senna” as Brundle once said (I think it was him, not 100% on that) and most young viewers bought into that… I didn´t because I knew his car was by far, better than anybody elses, but it sort of gets on my nerves reading some comments as to how great he is, bla, bla, bla and bla… He is good but he is not one of the greats yet… To be one of the greats in my opinion, he would have to win a WDC (not only a race) in an inferior car than what everybody elses drives… by everybody i mean the top 5 teams. Then and only then would I consider changing my mind. It might happen dude… I never thought I would actually like Lewis yet my feelings towards him changed!

            I hope this clears things up a bit…

            A true great once said: “every year there is a champion but, it´s not always a great champion”.


        2. not least the assumption that he doesn’t work for his results (like what you’ve just implied).

          And by the way… I never said he didn´t work for his results, I just said FA does it in inferior equipment than what SV gets which is no lie! ;)

          1. Monza 2008, post race presser
            Interviewer: Seb, why were you so quick early on, some 10kph better down the straights
            Seb: “We thought it would be dry so we stuck with the dry downforce level”

            Blows your wet weather theory out the window.Not sure how SV hasn’t ‘worked’ for his titles when Alonso has. SV has helped buit up a very good team at RBR and they are, along with Ferrari pulling all the right notes this season (you could argue RB pulling better as they are pulling for 2 drivers and hanging one out to dry at times, that Valencia tyre cock up for Massa was beyond ridiculous)
            Alonso has been at Ferrari 3 seasons now and has helped build up a formidable team, where they work in perfect harmony.

            You could argue that Seb is having his Alonso 2007 season, a difficult one in a capable car with a strong teammate after 2 titles on the spin.

            And as for this ‘he must win in inferior kit to be great or I will not consider him great’argument, its complete rubbish

  19. Great, great quali session. I had no idea out of the 10 drivers who was going to get pole with 2 minutes left.

    I hope the DRS zone doesn’t make overtaking too easy, that could spoil the race tomorrow. I think the McLarens are looking good in the dry, I can see Hamilton coming through the field to get a podium. As for the win it all depends on if Alonso can keep Vettel more than a second behind him.

  20. Don’t know why, but i just get the sense that Kimi’s lotus and both mclarens are the dark horses for tomorrow’s race.

    1. i dont think so. i think it will play out like previous races, mclaren will get many easy drs overtakes, but will have too much time to regain after losing so much in first ten laps. raikonnen will again not be agressive enough, and will rely on his car speed in the last 20 laps to regain heaps of time and finish a few seconds behind in 4th place – and everyone will be suprised to see grosjean only a few seconds back in 5th having started so much further back.

  21. Alonso strangely wasn´t very confident after qualifying, maybe with afraid to lose to another RB starting from pole. We are used to see him more optimistic. Doesn´t seem to have reasons for that, as he was quite fast in FP3 and basically all weekend. Maybe some concern over tyre degradation?
    A bit disappointed that Raikkonen didn´t qualified in the top 5, if he did I would put him on my favourite list as #1 (that lap on Q1 on hard tyres really amazed me!).
    Anyone for the victory tomorrow except the finger man!

  22. It will be interesting to see what the tyre strategies will be for a dry race tomorrow. Will Ferrari make the same mistake of running the options last? Or will McLaren and Kimi get the softs out of the way and then work their way up with the primes once the field spreads out?

    1. @vho
      It really depends on the tyre deg. A there were not so mutch runing on the options, so the best way would be to put them on at the start and see how good it is compared to the primes, especially how long do they last. The best strategy might be a 2 stopper, o-p-p.

      1. @bag0 Agree, but would the added weight of a fully fueled car degrade the options more compared to a lighter car towards the end of the race? But suppose that also depends on how long you can get the primes to last for. But without doubt, because of the limited running it makes sense to run the options first. Alternatively, a 2 stopper with p-o-p might also work for Alonso. If he can build a big enough gap to Vettel – who, say, was running on options, then Alonso might have a better chance to run the options in the 2nd stint once they realize how the other teams went in their 1st stint.

  23. Mclaren drivers watch out for Maldanado ahead of you, dont even think of trying to pass him or you know the consequences…

    1. Might be worthwhile for Lewis to hang back and let Jenson have ago at Pastor first. At least if they do collide he’ll take 2 spots without having to try too hard.

      1. Lol…. I doubt Lewis will hang back… he won´t let Jenson get the best of him… Before the fifth lap, Hamilton will have bagged Button! You just wait and see!!!

  24. You wait 1 and a half years for a pole, then 2 come along at once!

    1. I hope for the same for Seb and wins in July, you wait 11 races, then 2 go in together!

  25. during previous qualification (silverstone) mclarens were fast on full wets, this time they seem fast on dry and interm. tyres but somehow fall back to 7th and 8th on full wets.

    the thing that doesnt change is super form of alonso.

  26. Did anyone see/hear what Grosjean was up to walking down the pit lane with what appeared to be a determined purpose after he got knocked out? US commentators mentioned it, whent to an ad break, and then never said anything else on it.

    Looked like we was going to confront someone about something.

    1. @hays33d
      I doubt anything happened… he seems to “chilled” to confront anybody… He probably just went to get himself weighed

  27. Button is going to win the race tomorrow.

  28. It was a good session yesterday. Little frustrated that we didn’t get to see McLaren’s updates on a dry track, though. Also it was a shame that Caterham couldn’t stick one of their drivers in Q2. Thoroughly deserved P1 for Alonso, like Silverstone he made one mistake on his quickest lap which does go to show how difficult conditions were but that Alonso managed to hold it together the most.

    I expect Grosjean should provide some good entertainment and hopefully Rosberg too.

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