No Double DRS ‘Device’ for Lotus until Suzuka

F1 Fanatic round-up

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In the round-up: Lotus say they won’t use their new Double DRS set-up at Monza or Singapore.

Formula Renault 3.5

I’m commentating on highlights of Silverstone Race 2 for Formula Renault 3.5 with Martin Haven tonight at 8pm on ESPN (UK). If you’ve not seen it, it’s definitely a race worth watching.

The programmes are also going out on ESPN America. See here for more:


Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Lotus postpones DDRS ‘Device’ debut until Suzuka (Adam Cooper’s F1 Blog)

Technical director James Allison: “Although we would like to have it at Monza – because it is the type of circuit that rewards such a thing – we don’t have the DRS device configured to cope with the Monza level of downforce. So it is not even on the table. In Singapore you won’t see it either, because it’s too high a downforce circuit with insufficient straights for it to be worthwhile. The earliest you might see it now is Suzuka.”

Kubica stopped contact with Lotus months ago, reveals Boullier (Daily Mail)

“He stopped contact with us months ago. I cannot make any assumptions about anything because I am not in contact with him anymore.”

Top F1 teams face entry fee hike (Autosport)

“Sources have revealed that the proposal that has been put forward to the teams is for the entry fee to rise to ??500,000 (395,850) per outfit, plus ??7,000 (5,541) per point scored in the championship.”

McLaren deny any rift with Hamilton

“It was embarrassing for Lewis I think, and I’m sure he will learn from that. But it hasn’t driven a wedge [between Hamilton and the team], I’ve known Lewis since he was 11 years-old. He’s someone who has grown up in the team, he’s grown up in the glow of public criticism. Some things he has learned, some things he is yet to learn.”

Button ‘disappointed’ by Hamilton Twitter gaffe (Reuters)

“We work so hard to improve the car and keep things like that secret and private. I didn’t want to see it on Twitter. It was the whole telemetry from qualifying. It wasn’t just the rear wing. I was very surprised and disappointed.”

Stewards to get tough on risk-taking young drivers in Formula One (The Independent)

“Sources close to the FIA have suggested that a tougher line is likely to be taken from now on by race stewards appointed by the governing body in order to tighten up driving standards – not just in Formula One, but in the GP2 and GP3 feeder series.”

Odd Spa treatment (Sky)

Martin Brundle: “There appears to be an actual or mental ‘black book’ kept by the stewards, and although the stewards vary from race to race, they obviously carefully note those who regularly turn up at the headmaster’s door. That’s inevitable and it’s right to react to a pattern or serial offender. Maldonado has now received nine penalties in 2012 and he was top of the tables last year with nine too.”

Future classics (Darren Heath Photographer)

“Safety is paramount – that’s a given – but after that it should all be about spectacle. Not in the way the characterless concrete behemoth of the monstrosity that is Shanghai’s circuit provides. Unique in provoking feelings of awe and despair in equal measure. Not in the way Bahrain’s desert track resembles a bland 1980s computer game. I’m afraid the addition of a few palm trees and two ponds containing aquamarine-coloured water doesn’t cut it either!”

Franz Tost – Get with the programme (Toro Rosso)

“During the race, I climbed up the famous Agip advertising panel, pushed open a hole and watched maybe four or five laps from there. After that I went to the two Lesmos and Ascari. At the end of the race, I was at the Parabolica. Then I saw some ‘tifosi’ cutting the fence with special cutters and going through onto the track. This seemed like a good idea to me, so I went with them but the police took a dim view of it and tried to surround us on horses.”

Codemasters eyeing next-gen consoles for F1 2014 (Videogamer)

“Next year’s Formula 1 game is unlikely to be released on next-generation consoles – despite rumours that the Xbox 720 and PlayStation 4 could be released during the second half of 2013.”

iWITNESS: Belgian GP (Williams)

“Pastor delivered his second best qualifying performance of the year yesterday, but amid the focus and pressure of the qualifying session he was still able to demonstrate his compassionate side. He wore a black ribbon on his helmet as a mark of respect towards the 42 people who died in an oil refinery fire in Amuay, Venezuela last weekend. Pastor is not alone; the entire Williams F1 Team shares in the country’s grief.”

Comment of the day

James Hosford (@Hosford90) urges realistic expectations of Jerome D’Ambrosio’s performance for Lotus:

I’d be very surprised if Jerome does anything spectacular. As excited as he’ll be for any chance to race again, you gotta feel quite sorry for him in a way. In these modern times without testing, a one-off drive is pretty much the worst possible scenario you can find yourself in. You need so many races just to get on the pace after all that time off, and he’ll have one.

Although he’ll not be happy with it, I personally will be perfectly impressed and convinced he’s done a solid job if he can manage to qualify solidly in the midfield, around the sixth or seventh row, and score a point. That’s about what I predict.
James Hosford (@Hosford90)

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Maciek, US_Peter and Dominikwilde!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Jochen Rindt died during practice for the Italian Grand Prix on this day in 1970.

Rindt was leading the championship at the time, and as no one was able to beat his score before the end of the season he became F1’s first and, thankfully, only posthumous champion:

Image © Lotus F1 Team/LAT

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88 comments on “No Double DRS ‘Device’ for Lotus until Suzuka”

  1. I’d be very surprised if Jerome does anything spectacular. As excited as he’ll be for any chance to race again, you gotta feel quite sorry for him in a way. In these modern times without testing, a one-off drive is pretty much the worst possible scenario you can find yourself in. You need so many races just to get on the pace after all that time off, and he’ll have one.

    If I remember back in 2007 Vettel was running formula renault, and even when Theissen had said that he would let him drive on friday he had at least 3 of 4 month since he last drove an F1 before driving Kubica`s car… I think D’Ambrosio can fight for at least a top ten result…

    1. Vettel was doing Friday Practices though each weekend. D’Ambrosio has done nout since Brazil. As we have seen this season and in previous seasons, some drivers require a few races to get on top of a brand new car. As much as I like Jerome, I honestly think he will struggle against Raikkonen, but I do think the Lotus should suit Monza, it did at Montreal after all, but we will see.

      1. @craig-o

        D’Ambrosio has done nout since Brazil.

        Well he did drive in the Mugello test in May, so he has some basic understanding of the car and KERS. He’s also very involved in the team and their race weekends. I do expect him to perform reasonably.

      2. Actually Vettel did his last testing in 2007 in the Malaysia GP, after that BMW stop using him in friday practice, by the moment he drove in USA GP it have been 4 month since his last practice… So I really think D’Ambrosio has a chance to be in the top 10…

        1. @celeste One thing to note is that we’re comparing Vettel to D’Ambrosio here. Vettel went on to become a double world champion, having shown immense talent throughout his entire career. D’Ambrosio hasn’t really done anything of note… There’s a reason that his drive last year was for a backmarker team.

          1. This is his chance to shine however, to show the top/midfield teams that he has the talent to make it. Look at Kobayashi, he never really showed anything of note until he hit F1 in a relatively comptitive car and now Jerome is doing the same.
            This is his “US GP” if you like, if you are considering Jerome’s opportuntiy to Vettels.
            I hope he makes the most of it, but like the COTD points out, it’s a bit of a double edged sword.

          2. In general there was more testing in 07. young drivers are at a massive disadvantage these days. Which is why JA did so well at his time with Torro Rosso.

          3. q85 , if you mean Jaime Alguersuari, then he was beaten in each of his first 2 years by another young driver.

  2. +- EURO 20 Million a year for the FIA to “service” F1. Any one think that is good value ?
    This is why we have to dumb down our sport and cut costs, because the money is needed for all the empire builders riding on the gravy train.
    I definitely think the American model (despite it’s shortcomings) where the teams and the promoters work together to manage the sport is better than what we have with F1.

    1. If you had read the article on the increased entry feed, you would see that it is made explicitly clear that the money would be put into the running of the sport, and not lining someone’s pockets as you seem to think will be the case.

      1. @prisoner-monkeys
        And if YOU had read the article, all the way to the bottom, you’d have seen this…

        Although no team principal would talk on the record about the matter, several suggested that they were keen to discuss the situation with the FIA, and enquire about why the fees were rising so much – and exactly what the extra money was being used for.

        Suggests to me that the teams and @hohum were thinking along similar lines…..

        1. No, I read that – and until such time as a team principal is willing to go on the record, I see no reason to doubt it.

      2. @prisoner-monkeys, so you think the FIA is staffed by unpaid volunteers ?

        1. Nowhere does the article suggest that anyone will get a pay rise. If the money will be used to pay wages, then so be it. I fail to see how paying people to do their jobs and run the sport is a bad thing – because if the money isn’t coming from the team’s, where is it going to come from?

    2. My problem with this is that if they want to raise the fee, they should lower the current one and then have the additional 7.000/point. They would still get more money than now. The FIA would get 101×7000 for each race, in a calendar with 20 races thats 14.140.000 compared to the current 3.708.000, and I did not count the base fee. Now please someone could tell me, why do the FIA need more than 20.000.000 from F1 teams?
      It seems to me it is just a rip off, as the circuits make the repairs and upgrades by themselves, the safety improvements are being engineered by the teams. So what does the FIA do apart from constantly changing the rules, raising the safety standards and acting as the governing body? I ask honestly because I realy cant imagine why would the FIA need sutch amount of money from only the F1 teams.

      1. Well, unless the FIA takes on new roles (And I think it’s far more likely they are trying to claw back power), I think it’s a ridiculous amount, I like the model they used, as it helps out the smaller teams. But the amount is… unless they can explain why they need it, utterly insane. O.o

        But between Bernie and Luca I suppose it puts them in good company! :D

    3. I definitely think the American model (despite it’s shortcomings) where the teams and the promoters work together to manage the sport is better than what we have with F1.

      It’s a nice idea, but have you been following paddock politics in Indycar? If not, I suggest you read this, which states pretty plainly that ever since the introduction of the ICONIC project, several factions have formed within the Indycar fraternity and are currently trying to wrest control of the series away from Randy Bernard. Each side is currently trying to assert their control over the category, which is arguably faltering because of it.

      Does Formula 1 really need this? Just look at the politics of FOTA – the teams have been completely inept in their handling of the Resource Restriction Agreement, accusing and counter-accusing one another of improprietary, before storming away in a huff and declaring the others as being self-interested opportunists who only care for the future of the sport if they are the ones leading it. The bickering has gotten so bad that the FIA has had to step in to play mediator and try to make cost-cutting policeable and practical. And that’s just over a document whose observation is voluntary. Can you imagine what it would be like if the teams bickered and squabbled and were at each others’ throats over every single decision that would affect the future of the sport? It would likely end in tears if the whole sorry mess didn’t just implode about ten minutes after the teams got full control over the series.

      The whole idea of a Formula 1 run by the teams, for the teams might sound nice, but the harsh reality is that as long as the teams have a vested interest in seeing a future of the sport that favours them before any of others – that makes them the first among equals, so to speak – then they can’t be trusted to decide what is best or the sport. We saw a perfect example of this last year when everyone agreed to the off-throttle blown diffuser, then applied to the FIA for special dispensations from the ban to retain their competitive advantage, and accused all the other teams of doing exactly what they had just done. With the teams in control of the sport, this would happen every time a decision had to be made.

      And I know I don’t want to see that happen.

      1. JimmyTheIllustratedBlindSolidSilverBeachStackapopolis III
        5th September 2012, 10:26

        Whilst i agree the teams should not police the sport that still doesn’t explain why the fia needs an extra 20 million to do a job that they already do.

        1. Because it’s addition money that they can use to improve the running of the sport. The article in question makes it quite clear that all of the money from increased entry fees would be invested back into the sport. Not a penny, dime, cent or Euro will go into someone’s pockets.

          1. I like your certainty. Unfortunately, until a plan is published saying what the FIA intend to do to help the running of the sport, I will remain sceptical!

            If their intent is to provide money to the Tech Working Group to help the development of the cars, I’m all for it (personally, I think that instead of DRS we should have ground effect using a common floor to replace the plank which governs ride height – this sort of development would reduce costs for smaller teams, and increase the spectacle without using ‘gimmicks’ – although I actually think was a good idea to bridge the overtaking gap until ground effect, but I can see why people believe it’s a gimmick).

            And if they have a clear spending plan to improve safety, then great.

            If there is money set aside to help with publicity, then that’s good news.

            But please, write it down and tell us! Otherwise there will always be a suspicion that this profit making organisation is trying to make more profit.

          2. @prisoner-monkeys, actually the article makes clear that the money will be used for motorsport in general, not just F1.

          3. I have to correct myself, not only will the money not all be spent on F1 it will not all be spent on motorsport, some of it may be spent on ” road safety initiatives”.
            Better speed cameras ?

          4. @hohum – How is any of that a bad thing? One of the best things Jean Todt has done since taking office is spread himself around. Where Max Mosley only concentrated on Formula 1, Todt has had the sense to work on the FIA’s road safety campaigns and develop other racing categories. The WRC is going through significant changes that have been needed for years, Gerhard Berger is looking to restructure the entire Formula 3 series, and the FIA has half a dozen other projects in the work. But the money to pay for them has to come from somewhere, and if I were a team principal, I’d be happy to contribute a little extra to help grow those series. Especially since Formula 1 teams have a vested interest in seeing the like if Formula 3 grow and develop, since Formula 3 has long been a vital checkpoint in a young driver’s career. If Red Bull can afford to sponsor a dozen young drivers, they can afford to contribute towards improving the feeder series to give young drivers an even greater chance to shine.

            But according to you, this is nothing more than a money-grab by greedy bureaucrats.

      2. @prisoner-monkeys, “(despite it’s shortcomings )” yes the main shortcoming is the greed of people more interested in money than motor-racing.

  3. OmarR-Pepper (@)
    5th September 2012, 1:31

    Sources have revealed that the proposal that has been put forward to the teams is for the entry fee to rise to €500,000 (£395,850) per outfit, plus €7,000 (£5,541) per point scored in the championship.”

    that means HRT had bettter not score any points or they won’t be able to pay!!!!!!

    1. Yes, but this is a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, FOM distribute the 50% of revenue that they don’t keep for themselves by a formula which includes payment for points, so the FIA are putting the onus on FOM to increase the payments or the teams to accept less.

      1. You do realise that this is only one thing the FIA are considering, right? The article makes that pretty clear before it even begins to discuss how such a “points tax” system would work. The article also makes it pretty clear that the money the teams would be paid would be used to cover services they are already paying for. Weather forecasts from Meteo France are the example given. So would the teams really be paying more, or would they just be paying differently?

        And by Autosport‘s estimations, Red Bull would have paid just over five million Euros to enter the 2012 season. Their budget is said to be over two hundred million Euros – and I’ve heard rumours that suggest they are spending nearly twice that. If anybody can afford to pay an entry fee of five million Euros, it’s Red Bull.

        My one concern in all of this is that teams would deliberately sandbag once they secured a position in the World Constructors’ Championship to avoid paying more. Red Bull won the WCC in Korea last year, and in the next three races, they scored nearly a hundred more points. That would be expensive for them, so there would be the temptation to slow down once the title was resolved. If the FIA were to introduce this “points tax” system, then I think they should stop it once a team secures a championship place. So in 2011, Red Bull would stop paying for their points after the Korean Grand Prix, and every point thereafter would be “free”.

        1. @prisoner-monkeys, really, you accuse me of not having any facts to prove my assertion that increased fees will be used for empire building and large salaries at the FIA then you bolster your argument using “rumour”.
          As for your “one worry” that teams might avoid gaining points after securing the WCC so as not to pay more points tax, DUH, the teams get paid for every point by FOM that is how tax works, you only pay more when you earn more so your net income increases as does the tax.

        2. paying for weather forecasts , give me a break, I cross oceans in small boats using free internet weather forecasts, you can subscribe if you want to but all the information is available FOC.

  4. Is Eric Boullier the new Flavio Briatore for Lotus- utterly bitter and focused dedication to success

  5. I don’t understand the entry fees – fine if it’s just 500k for an entry fee, that cost is nominal to most teams. the part I don’t understand is paying money per point scored. I thought a team was paid prize money which increased the higher the team finished in the constructors championship.
    These both seem to run contrary to each other – you both pay and in effect are paid by points scored?

    1. Think of it as the FIA tax, FOM pays the points money the teams pay the FIA, you win more you pay more and Jean Todt gets a pay-rise.

      1. or think of it as a disincentive for the FIA to strip constructors of point. Perhaps it has an upside

      2. @hohum

        he teams pay the FIA, you win more you pay more and Jean Todt gets a pay-rise

        Not true:

        No deal has yet been reached, but high level sources have revealed that one option being considered is for the FIA to seek a much greater share of its funding from the teams – which it can then use to invest in its running of the sport and other road safety initiatives.

        AUTOSPORT has learned that one idea that has been suggested to the teams is for the entry fee to rise from its current cost of 309,000 Euro to a level that could see several teams pay multiple millions for their entries.

        In a bid to centralise the cost of extra services that teams use, and currently pay extra beyond the entry fee to the FIA for (such as the Meteo France weather service), the governing body wants to have everything included in one fixed price.

        Sources have revealed that the proposal that has been put forward to the teams is for the entry fee to rise to 500,000 Euro per outfit, plus 7,000 Euro per point scored in the championship.

        This means that the more successful teams would contribute much more to the running of the sport and suffer a dramatic rise in costs.

        There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the increased entry fees will mean a pay rise for Todt.

        1. 1/ which it can then use to invest in its running of the sport and other road safety initiatives.
          I do not see any connections between F1 and road safety, and there cannot be any. Running for the sport ? Do not see neither. I so not understand why team spend 400 M€ whereas their car are in the same same same performance as 1987. Everybody can do an F1 car quicker for 0.1 M€. Then all of this is nonsense. You just have to consider than FIA want their share of the money, like banks whant their share by asking more and more money for doing debit and credit which can be done for quite nothing. All of this are ******** (so called business), must be little more awake than that.

    2. Because Bernie is an englishman then good to do business (raise the total money generated in the sport, give and take half, become a billionaire). Not super good because there is a waste of energy for quite nothing but ok. In front of him you have a frenchman who like all governing people in France just think to make people pay taxes. French are kings or maybe gods to invent 1 million ways to invent new taxes and to increase them.

    3. “Fine if it’s just 500K per race…………..nominal for most teams”
      So just how much does it cost to rebuild an engine between races, apparently a lot more than the teams can afford but 500K (Euro) is a mere bagatelle, same with gearboxes I guess.

  6. Hamilton is doing a lot of stuff that would get a normal employee fired.

    1. Yeah just when we thought Lewis had rid himself of his demons. I just dont get this guy. He has so much talent, but seriously lacks the mental side of racing, which is as important and speed. It is extremely unprofessional to poke the team or blame the team in any situation, and he does this often. In my opinion opinion, the a driver can influence the performance of a team, be it strategy, pit stops, car performance etc. You cant just blame the team for poor decisions, poor pitstops and have to work with them to fix the issues…since a driver is a part of the team!

    2. Hamilton is doing a lot of stuff that would get a normal employee fired.

      Conspiracy theory alert! Get your tin foil hats: maybe Hamilton wants to give the impression that he will be fired or put himself in a similar position so any team that might be thinking about hiring him will increase their efforts to get him. Or if he wants to get a better contract from McLaren he can tell them about these offers and use them for a better bargaining position.
      Of course it could all backfire and no team will want to touch him because of the way he’s been acting but hey, where’s the fun in that?

      1. nah at times he just leaves his brain at home.

        1. why not, if he did something so stupid, he can imagine to do something so stupid too. One people murdered few days ago a woman, he showed himself to the police few days after to tell a stupid story thinking he will be bellieved. We can say it’s strange that Hamilton did not already signed, maybe he is waiting Massa or Shumi to leave and maybe he found in his childish brain that it will be easier to push McLaren, even if it is stupid for everybody else.

      2. If it were the case that Hamilton was trying to increase interest from other teams, this ridiculous debacle over telemetry is probably the worst thing he could have done. He’s already viewed as something of a potential liability, a prima dona who demands a higher salary than just about every other driver yet seems prone to bouts of poor judgement; the fact he now seems capable of publishing potentially sensitive data about the team’s performance will only add to the sense that he’s not someone who can be relied upon.

      3. Get your tin foil hats: maybe Hamilton wants to give the impression that he will be fired or put himself in a similar position so any team that might be thinking about hiring him will increase their efforts to get him.

        Why on earth would a team want to take on a driver who was fired for disruptive and borderline-destructive behaviour?

        It’s far more likely that Hamilton is suffering from the lack of focus he expeirenced last year. he was the first person to beat Sebastian Vettel in 2011 when he won the Chinese Grand Prix, and he probably expected that he would beat keep up with the Red Bull for the rest of the season – and it didn’t happen. He didn’t win again until the German Grand Prix seven races later, and then he suffered another slump in form that lasted for eight races (and even then, he only won in Abu Dhabi because Vettel retired on the first lap).

        I think he might be going through something similar again: he knows the MP4-27 is good, but he’s not making the most of it. Since the upgrade was introduced in Germany, he has had a win and two retirements. Button has had a win, a podium and a points finish. Now, while his retirement in Belgium was hardly his fault, he’s also been outqualified by Button twice in the past three races, and now Button has announced that he’s back in the title fight when McLaren were talking about having him support Hamilton for the rest of the season.

        Someone on another forum I contribute to noticed that Hamilton’s bizarre behaviour tends to show itself most plainly when his team-mate starts beating him. When he told the team that he thought it was time to retire the car in Germany, Button was ahead of him. He was back on form in Hungary, but then Button took pole in Belgium, and he posted the team’s telemetry online. And it happened throughout 2011 – Hamilton’s strangest behaviour showed itself when he was being beaten by Button. For example, he was consistently faster than Button throughout the weekend of the Italian Grand Prix, but in the race, Button finished second and Hamilton was fourth. At the next race in Singapore, Hamilton’s qualifying and race were fraught with mistakes (including the now-infamous “don’t touch me, man!” incident with Massa), and Button trounced him all weekend.

        I think Hamilton’s problem is that when he gets beaten, he goes out of his way to prove that it was a one-time-only thing – but he’s fixated on the wrong target and can’t get out of his own way. The end result is probably some of the most bizarre behaviour that we’ve seen from a Formula 1 driver: “don’t touch me, man!”, the Bob Marley helmet, and now posting sensitive information about the car in the public arena where every other team can see it.

        1. I came to the same was a classic case of inner inferiority complex ie needing to justify why Button had beaten him, to the outside world

        2. “Why on earth would a team want to take on a driver who was fired for disruptive and borderline-destructive behaviour?”

          What like threatening your team principle with blackmail?

        3. “I think he might be going through something similar again: he knows the MP4-27 is good, but he’s not making the most of it.”

          Personally i think thats utter nonsense, his position in the championship isnt a reflection of his driving.

          Hamilton has drievn brilliantly this year, and but for all those pits stop/strategy errors, would be up there with, if not beating alonso.

    3. Mclaren published parts of Hamilton’s telemetry for 3 famous corners in their site before the race along with complete explanation of his driving style and how he copes with those corners! I think Lewis thought (wrongly of course!) it’s Ok to publish the telemetry since his team has already done so!
      He should’ve asked engineers first though…I don’t think he’ll have the same respect from them after this.

      1. But he should have noticed those small differences that made him look like a complete idiot:
        – This is the telemetry from this years qualy, not just some graph from other years
        – This is the telemetry from a whloe lap, not just one corner
        – This telemetry showed the difference between the old rearwing and the new one

        1. +1
          As a Mclaren fan I just hope this doesn’t put Mclaren in disadvantage for the rest of season.

    4. Indeed those are infos you prefer not to give to other team but I don’t see how it can really hurt McLaren. And as Spa is a particular configuration for cars, those charts don’t apply for other tracks (even if some characteristics probably remains). Would have been nice if someone could decript a bit all this.
      On that one you can see the time loss and gain between the two cars, the gear change and thus gear ratio but I couldn’t find much more …

      1. @jeanrien
        You see both drivers information on the image, and you have two graphs in every ‘row’, JB blue LH orange
        -On the top of the picture you see the DRS state, when its up it is open, when down it is closed, note that LH’s and JB’s usage of it is almost identical.
        -The second two graphs are the current sppeds of the drivers
        -The third ‘row’ shows the steering wheel: up=right down=left
        -Dotted line is the time delta
        -Under there are the shifts
        -At the bottom of the page throttle and brake application

        1. If you look closely you can see that it appears that the drivers are using the throttle while downshifting; effectively manually using the throttle to blow the diffusor while slowing down. That’s pretty interesting, and might give the other teams some insight into the way that the McLaren is using its exhaust gasses. nothing illegal of course, but it shows that the blown diffusor issue is far from gone.

          That’s if I read it right anyway; it appears the throttle is being opened while the car is decelerating.

          1. Im sure iv hear jenson say he uses a bit of throttle while braking to minimise rear locking

          2. Thats pretty ordinary in racing.

          3. You can do that with any car.
            The blown diffuser issue was that the exhaust emission levels were consistent even when off-throttle due to the retarded engine mapping. Atleast that’s my simplified take on it.

  7. I really don’t understand this fixation with DDRS. Mercedes, apart from that single win have had a poor season and DDRS really has not had an impact. Even at Spa, where you would expect them to dominate with that straight line speed, they struggled. I don’t see the utility of investing so much time and effort into a system whose benefits are limited. Also, if you have to wait till Suzuka to put it on then you might as well not put it. Considering it would take atleast 2 races to perfect, to gain its full potential for just 2 more races after that seems very redundant.

    1. Mercedes really doesn’t have a great car this year and they have slipped consistently backwards. What kept them among the front runners at the start of the year was the DDRS. I’m not saying the DDRS is a game changer, but if it can add 3-4 tenths of a second on a lap even during quali, it could do wonders for the starting position of both the Lotus cars.

      1. @todfod What you say is very true, however Mercedes already had the system on and tried to make it into a game changer throughout the year. With Lotus, it seems too late to put in such a system. But I might be wrong and we might yet see Kimi on the top of the podium.

    2. I was thinking the same thing. Seems like a big waste of money but more importantly a waste of time and effort that could be better spent on upgrading other more important components of the car.

    3. @mahavirshah There is something very important to notice about Lotus “DDRS” than a prefer to call the Device as they do because it’s far from being even similar to the mercedes DDRS.
      For mercedes, they need to open the DRS for their system works, that limits it greatly and offer a small gain in quali only and probably makes your passes a bit easier.
      While Lotus device is made such that it works DRS open or not, that means during the whole race. So even if it offers 0.2 sec advantage (they believe it’s even more that could be gained), it’s for every single lap and that’s a lot. On a 50 laps race, you gain 10 sec only with the Device, putt it that way and see the places advantage it could give…
      But this Device is more complex than mercedes in the way that it’s not as safe. While you close the DRS mercedes DDRS stop working as well. For Lotus, it would mainly depends of the speed of the car to stall the rear wing thus you have to avoid stalling in fast corners where you might need a minimum of downforce

      1. @jeanrien So what your’e saying is that it is more of a continuous system and dependant on the wing and yaw angle of the car. Something like auto-stall. Your’e right, it will be very tough to perfect since it will need a lot of fine tuning. Any source on this system?

        1. @mahavirshah Yep, and the tunning will likely be subject to weather (wind, ambient pressure and T°) as it is based on fluid mechanics and high speed flow. Best source I’ve found is here

          But yet a lot of unknows remains …

          1. @jeanrien From what I have seen it will be horribly difficult to control but if it isn’t banned most teams next year might have the system on. Then maybe Lotus will have the advantage of having it tested and perfected.

      2. sounds like a passive f-duct when you explain it like that…

        1. Yes. Aren’t they illegal?

          1. Driver operated F-Duct’s are illegal, This device isn’t driver operated so is totally legal.

    4. At Spa, Mercedes had an imppresive speed on strights.

      1. Yes, but that would only mean anything if they were good in the twisty section. They may have just been running less wing than the other teams.

  8. How many tests they need to race with the device?

    1. I believe they have done most of their tests after it’s mainly controling when the stall happens to avoid being dangerous and then evaluate the time gained on the rest of the track.
      The time advantage would probably not be optimised in the first races they try it… Let’s be patient until Suzuka

    2. I think in principle the device has been shown to work, and works quite well. The problem they have is in fine tuning it to the point where it activates at specific speeds reliably. What they don’t want is for it to behave erratically and suddenly open mid-corner. All it needs to do is cause one accident which removes one car from the race, and potentially it will have undone any good it may have done over the course of the season.

      However, the fact they haven’t got it working for Spa or Monza is going to really hurt them, since these are the tracks at which the device would really be of the most use. That’s not to say it’s not useful at other tracks, but just look at how Button dominated Spa mostly thanks to a low drag setup; if Lotus had the device working properly they would have been in the mix for the win at Spa, and likely at Monza too.

      1. @jeanrien @mazdachris I know it needs fine tuning since it’s passive but if that is the one why it’s delayed so much, surely they lied that they didn’t run the device in Spa because of the weather. Considering they’d like to run it in Spa and Monza a couple of races ago, I think it’s more likely it doesn’t work well yet or has serious obstacle. Also they said ‘until Suzuka’ means it can be delayed again!

        1. Well, I think there is some truth in what they’re saying. I’d imagine that they wouldn’t want to be running the device in wet conditions since it would affect the stability of the car. There has been a fair bit of disruption to the running this year especially in practice thanks to wet weather. if we assume that if there’s a reasonable threat of bad weather they do little or no testing of the device, then the poor weather has probably set them back somewhat in terms of testing mileage.

          But i do agree; the fact that they have been saying for some time that they wanted it before Spa, and yet they’re now saying potentially Suzuka, implies that there’s more to it than a lack of testing mileage. I think the system is proving more tricky to get right than they had anticipated. Whether that’s down to some engineering problem which needs to be addressed, or just more work being needed to understand the effects, is anyone’s guess. Very likely a combination of the two, however.

        2. @eggry Could also be other reason … They have announced that after Spa, thus this may be linked with Romain’s ban and they change plan. If it is something easy to copy, or likely to be ban quickly they would rather try to take maximum advantage out of it. Putting it on a track where it gives certain advantage and with both their main drivers at the wheel. Because as long as it is not run, it seems legal and surely is, but if the advantage is as big as they announce be sure there will be complain …
          But that stays some “could be”

          1. If you want images, you can easily find some showing the duct from the air intake to the rear wing

  9. I wonder if Button would have expressed his disappointment so publicly had he not won the race? He has every right to, regardless, but he will be on a natural high and be very confident in the decision he made for the race.

    Yet again Hamilton proves he is quite juvenile when in command of a smartphone. I never tweet anything about my place of work, it’s separate from my personal life. Hamilton would do well to blur the lines a little bit. I know he’s reaching out to his fans but I find half his tweets just to be cringeworthy.

    1. I wonder if Button would have expressed his disappointment so publicly had he not won the race?

      I think he would have publicised it right after the race if hadn’t won. I think Jenson has the right to be a little upset, as a lot of Jenson’s setup data was made public to all their rivals.. and let’s face it, a solid car setup strategy, is the only way Jenson can compete with the top drivers.

    2. @andrewtanner
      As I said here

      He did not walk down the street juping in to the Guardians editorial office to have a chat with the journos and state that he is disappointed by Hamiltons actions. A better question would be, If Button did not won the race, would the Guardian ask him about the tweet.
      BTW he gave the most diplomatic answer in my opinion.

  10. Something else tangentially related to F1 is that this afternoon Alex Zanardi will be competing in the Handbike Time Trial in the Paralympics on a circuit that starts off around Brands Hatch!

    1. We should do a Live session with it! Also, anyone got any links to try and see it live? Like pretty much every country (except Brazil it seems), Australia’s coverage is woefully inadequate.

      1. Just found out he won gold about twenty minutes ago – it’s been said many times, but he is quite a guy!

  11. there is alot of hype around Lotus, if they had a ‘fast car’ they should have won a race by now, were 12 races into the season. clearly their car isnt quick enough for a win this season, carry on being consistent but we wont see a lotus at the top of the podium this season

  12. Lotus could be trolling :P

  13. JimmyTheIllustratedBlindSolidSilverBeachStackapopolis III
    5th September 2012, 17:46

    BBC Reporting hamilton to mercedes next year, whilst it is one of eddie jordans predictions he was right about michaels come back and they got no comment from hamiltons management and mercedes. That means it’s almost definitely being looked at, if not they would say no this is not happening. In f1 “no” means no “no comment” means maybe or yes. My opinion if this is true what an absolute clot he may go there and get a title next year but i pretty much doubt it.

  14. Happy birthday to @maciek,@US_Peter and to Dominikwilde as well

    1. Thanks Bas : )

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