McLaren lock out front row as Ferrari challenge falters

2012 Italian Grand Prix qualifying

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Fernando Alonso headed the times in Q1 and Q2 as Ferrari used slipstreaming to boost their speeds at Monza.

But it all went wrong for Alonso in Q3 as he slumped to tenth place with a problem on his car.

That cleared the way for Lewis Hamilton to lead a McLaren one-two in Ferrari’s backyard.


Nico Hulkenberg’s effort to secure a place in Q2 came to an early end. He came to a stop at the Rettifilio chicane at the beginning of his first flying lap, telling the team he’d “lost everything” on his dashboard.

F1 returnee Jerome D’Ambrosio had fallen into the drop zone as the final minutes of practice began but salvaged his place with a lap more than half a second faster than Heikki Kovalainen could manage.

There was little in it between the two Marussia drivers and behind them Narain Karthikeyan out-qualified Pedro de la Rosa for the first time this year.

The contest for fastest time was between Ferrari and McLaren. This time it was Alonso who held the upper hand. Hamilton set the fastest first and second session with his last effort, but was 0.15s off Alonso in the final sector, leaving him second.

Drivers eliminated in Q1

18 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham-Renault 1’26.382
19 Vitaly Petrov Caterham-Renault 1’26.887
20 Timo Glock Marussia-Cosworth 1’27.039
21 Charles Pic Marussia-Cosworth 1’27.073
22 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1’27.441
23 Pedro de la Rosa HRT-Cosworth 1’27.629
24 Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes


Alonso stayed on top in the second part of qualifying, heading Button’s McLaren by 13 thousandths of a second. As in practice the two Ferraris arranged themselves on track to use each other’s slipstream to maximum of effect.

Hamilton took third, complaining he’d been held up by another driver. Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes were sufficiently confident in their lap times not to run again. Massa queried the decision but in the end made it through comfortably.

A second run for Paul di Resta was sufficient to move him up to third place. But the fight for the final places in the top ten were very close.

Sebastian Vettel scraped in by a little more than a tenth of a second while team mate Mark Webber was eliminated.

Pastor Maldonado lost his grip on the top ten and nearly had a nasty crash when he ran wide at Ascari, got onto the grass, and had to make a quick correction to keep out of the barrier.

Drivers eliminated in Q2

11 Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1’24.809
12 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault 1’24.820
13 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1’24.901
14 Bruno Senna Williams-Renault 1’25.042
15 Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1’25.312
16 Jerome d’Ambrosio Lotus-Renault 1’25.408
17 Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1’25.441


The Ferraris left the pits together as Q1 began and the plan appeared to be for Alonso to give Massa a tow. This he did, and Massa initially went fastest on a 1’24.436.

But Hamilton swiftly beat that with a 1’24.010. Team mate Button fell slightly short of Massa, 0.043s behind.

Di Resta did manage to beat Massa with his lap, but only briefly as the Ferrari driver took the place back.

Hamilton didn’t improve on his final effort but he didn’t need to. His team mate closed to within a tenth of a second of him to make it an all-McLaren front row.

But what happened to Alonso? His final lap left him tenth on a 1’25.678. “A problem on Fernando’s car prevented him to fight for pole,” his team announced on Twitter. “A real shame…”

Top ten in Q3

1 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1’24.010
2 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1’24.133
3 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1’24.247
4 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1’24.304
5 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1’24.540
6 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1’24.802
7 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1’24.833
8 Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault 1’24.855
9 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1’25.109
10 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1’25.678

2012 Italian Grand Prix

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Image © McLaren/Hoch Zwei

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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136 comments on “McLaren lock out front row as Ferrari challenge falters”

  1. Ferrari suspect Alonso had rear anti-roll bar failure:

    1. Domenicali added Alonso’s failure happened on the first lap of Q3.

    2. It makes sense. I saw his traction lost in the first chicane which is what exactly anti-roll bar should deal with. What a horrible weekend for Alonso. Another failure in (almost) every session. Now what? Is it time for Alonso himself fail? Please…

      1. Like Horner said, Alonso/Ferrari would have to have problems at some point. He is leading, in some degree, due to problems the others had with cars, slow pit stops, etc.
        DNF last race and now this – good for the championship.

        1. you that’s not true, so much hate in this past days, people are getting super excited for Mclaren, i know that what goes around comes back around, but i’m talking about 2005 and 2006 not this year nor last.

          1. @zicasso you were the one yesterday that posted something about wishing Alonso to fail?

            He is leading, in some degree, due to problems the others had with cars, slow pit stops, etc.
            DNF last race and now this – good for the championship.

            That’s not true and not good for the championship, his point tally is gone and the championship is still very long, you’re just hoping to see the Mclarens run away, you don’t care for the champ, honestly after Melbourne everyone expected to see Mclaren running away with the trophy people got surprised and renew confidence after thinking that the Melbourne result was going to define the season as utterly boring, at least for everyone who doesn’t support Mclaren, but thankfully Williams won a race and some other as well, now they brought back harder tyres and gaps are forming as some teams can’t extract the potential out of some tyres, this are quickly formed theories but Monza qualli could have been tighter.

          2. No, it wasn’t me. He is my second favourite driver and I think he has been quite lucky so far. He has also carried that Ferrari on his back going beyond what it was expected of him and the car, on several occasions this year. I still think if the gap closes it will spice things up.

    3. JimmyTheIllustratedBlindSolidSilverBeachStackapopolis III
      8th September 2012, 15:48

      Massive congratulations to felipe and narain even if alonso was hampered, first time this year they have beaten their team m8’s. Jerome didn’t do to bad either given the circumstances 0.7 off kimi is a job well especially if you look back to luca badoer vs kimi or giancarlo vs kimi.

      1. JimmyTheIllustratedBlindSolidSilverBeachStackapopolis III
        8th September 2012, 15:48

        a job well done*

    4. @keithcollantine Thanks for the info Keith, it was bugging me what it could be.

    5. HAAHAH! it’s the curse, what goes around comes back around, it started at Sunday last weekend and now 1 engine one gearbox and now this, a shame cause the only race where the Ferrari really had genuine pace, but at least we have something to watch tomorrow if he get round the first 2 chicanes.

  2. I’m not sure Alonso had the pace for P1 not matter what happened, he should have been P2 or P3 though. That was a lot faster from the Mclarens in Q3

    1. @bbt

      I’m not sure Alonso had the pace for P1

      He was fastest in Q1 and Q2, and 0.001s off the fastest time in FP3.

      1. @keithcollantine I know all that but I believe he was closer to his maximum potential than the Mclarens in those sessions. I got the feeling Mclaren always had enough in hand / they could raise the bar when needed, and they did. Shame about the problem it would have been interesting to see how closed he really is (or even ahead if I’m wrong).

        1. As far as I remember the only mechanical failure that was out of the driver’s control was vettel’s . Hamilton was somehow guilty when he crash with Maldonado and the mclaren put stops are their fault. Alonso did the best job and he worked for them. You are just someone who like to see your driver to win a wdc this way . If he wants it he should deserve it something that Hamilton does not if you take into accout that he has had the fastest car almost the entire season. To me this failure has to do with the fact that they rebuilt the car that was crashed in spa., the should have used a brand new chassis. If I was them I would change the engine, gear. I’d start from pit land and work his way up. He was faster than Hamilton by an average of three tenths in q1 and q2 . He deserved the pole but things didn’t work out that way. He still can win the race, the Ferrari is fast and it seems it wil be easy to pass the other cars. When he was passed by massa in his first flying lap it was clearly to see that something was wrong. Even with that problem he still score a decent time something only Alonso can do. He will win the race orbe on the podium . I have that gut feeling.

          1. You don’t have to hate Hamilton in order to love Alonso mate. I think you mention way to much his name just to praise how good Fernando is. Alonso is good on his ow right, I understand we need terms of comparison but really, Fernando is good and Lewis is good. However, we cannot pretend that other people’s problems helped Alonso.

          2. Tete if you are replying to me I never mentioned Hamilton, just Mclaren, I don’t believe Ferrari even in Alonso’s hands had the pace for pole… that’s it. Nothing to do with the WDC, don’t understand where you are coming from at all.

        2. Hamilton was in traffic in Q2, and in Q3 he would have improved on his last run if someone was challenging him for pole.

      2. Ferrari’s were slipstreaming…you said it yourself, mclaren is faster

    2. I’m more surprised Hamilton couldnt string up a lap 5 tenths quicker than anyone, but they surely had more.

  3. Seems it might be a faulty anti roll bar for Alonso.

    Hm, he will have a bit of an interesting race in front of him tomorrow.

    1. Maybe they switched rollbars with Massa?

      1. lol! someone at maranello blew it!

  4. Problem on the car…I really hope Alonso would make significant progress in the race. Surely Mclaren has the fastest car and I don’t want to the championship settle down soon. but considering Ferrari is not so fast in the straight, it might be tough call.

    1. Which team was the quickest in the speed traps? I thought Ferrar’s top speed would be amongst the top 3 along with Mclaren & Mercedes

      1. The Lotus was the quickest last time I checked but that was in Practice 2. The Ferrari was 7kph down on the Lotus and 4kph down on the McLaren. I think the Ferrari will have little problem overtaking especially since Alonso will have DRS. Also remember that he will very close coming out of the corners since the Ferrari look like they are running more downforce. He will close up at the start of the straight and then use DRS to overtake at the end.


          Lotus is still the quickest one on straights, the gap between McLaren and Lotus isn’t very big though.

          1. The gap is not very big to the Ferrari either. According to that data the Ferrari is less then 5kph down on the Lotus. From the data so far to me it looks like the Ferrari will have little difficulty to pass.

    2. There is no way that the championship will settle down soon. Lewis or Jenson will have to be very dominant in the last 8 races to have a chance at winning the WDC. We already know how consistent Fernando can be so he can keep accumulating good points and hope the Mclarens falter in some races as we have seen them do. This thing will go down to the wire!

      On the WCC, red bull has a handy lead and although the team struggles in qualifying, they always have good race pace. It will take some performance from Mclaren to overcome that lead.

      I don’t think there will be any changes at the TOP of either the WDC or WCC until the final 3 races.

  5. Lewis seemed to be pretty down-beat again, like he was in the latter half of 2011. I had hoped we’d seen the back of ‘sulky’ Lewis. I hope he can win tomorrow! I’m starting to think that McLaren will make a quick surge in the constructors championship too, possibly even to the top!

    1. Probably because he did not improve in his second lap @nick-uk, he will be convinced that he could have gotten more out of it.

      1. End of the day though, what does it matter? He still had pole position.

        1. I used to think that this was a ‘sulky’ Hamilton but now I’m not so sure. I think he likes to play up his ‘Gangsta’ persona… Never letting his emotions come out when in public, keeping it cool. No one likes over exuberant celebrations for pole position, *cough* Vetel *cough*. As for me, I wish he would lighten up a bit.

          1. I don’t like over exuberant celebrations for pole position

            There, fixed that for you.

    2. @nick-uk Blame Nicole.

    3. JimmyTheIllustratedBlindSolidSilverBeachStackapopolis III
      8th September 2012, 15:44

      well he took off his shades for the first time this week in the presser.

    4. I hope Lewis is not falling into the wrong mindset again. A win should help.

  6. Disaster for Ferrari and Force India considering their pace :(

    1. Probably even more for Force India than for Ferrari

      1. I second that. Such a shame for Force India. Especially as I reckon Hulkenberg could have beaten Di Resta’s fourth on the grid. Still, Di Resta has a good chance at a points finish tomorrow and maybe a one stopper could make up for Hulkenberg’s poor starting position earning him a 9th or a 10th place. It’s not all gone yet.

        One thing’s for sure. That Mercedes engine works like a miracle with Force India’s low downforce aero package.

    2. Yes but if things had gone crash-less in Belgium you could have add 5 more positions to Hulkenberg and he would have finished 9th and even if Di Resta had had a normal race shouldn’t have score much more than Hulk, in the end they got lucky when they were down and terribly unlucky a week after when they had realistic chances, FI tends to shy away from the big results.

  7. So it appears Ferrari still haven’t learnt the importance of a “banker” lap

    1. I think with the anti-roll bar issue it wouldn’t have made a great deal of difference. They should simply be happy with Massa and frustrated by a mechanical issue. Rather than rue trying to use slip-streaming tactics.

      1. I agree with that @nick-uk, unlike most of last year and until now (or Spa) this year, at least Massa is about there to pick up points when Alonso can’t fight for them. If Massa can pick up Ferrari, can at least fight to keep 3rd in the WCC, which they looked set to be losing to Lotus.

    2. The problem was there from the get go in Q3. A banker lap was not possible.

  8. Whatever the reason, slip streaming intentionally is not in the best interest of the sport. There was no need for Alonso to waist his time on this kind of #$%^!

    1. Does it matter? Massa posted a faster lap without slipstream support.

    2. Teamwork is in the best interest of the sport.

    3. @maksutov It absolutely is. The teams should use every perceivable angle to improve their performance and slipstreaming is one of the best things about motorsport at large.

      1. Then why do you support HRT and Marussia running unknowns in their cars on Fridays. Seems like you are conflicting yourself and the belief that as you said “teams should use every percievable angle to improve performance”…

        1. That’s completely different! Those teams at the back have it tough both technically and financially. They need to draft in the occasional unknown for a) money and b) how the hell else are you going to develop new drivers?

          Notice I said ‘teams’, not drivers. If that is for the long term benefit of the team or even just an ideal long term benefit if it doesn’t pay off then it’s a statement of intent to improve their performance both on and off the track.

      2. I think I agree with Andrew Tanner about drafting. But the team have to be convinced it will give them enough of an advantage and they have to get it right. Today I’m not sure their would have been enough of an advantage and they didn’t get it right – even allowing for the mechanical fault.
        I remember seeing the Seat team using slipstreaming here at Monza in the WTCC a couple of years back and they used it to perfection with drivers hauling each other through the Parabolica and onto the straight with a real flying start to the lap.
        But qualifying in WTCC wasn’t a mad ten minute dash, and WTCC cars are rather less slippery than F1 cars, so the ‘hole in the air’ had greater benefit.

        1. @timothykatz

          Slipstreaming is a very common thing in WTCC, but they have another qualifying system with different strategies compared to F1. They go mutch slower than the Formula cars, hitting the limiter mutch rarely, so slipstreaming gives them greater advantage, they do it on tracks like the Hungaroring too.

          1. Yes, thank you. I think I knew that.

  9. Great lap from DiResta shame about the penalty but he should be able to move up if he has the same sort of relative race pace.

  10. Nevermind the antiroll bar problem. Ferrari risked it badly with all the tactics…

  11. Quite a weird Quali, I thought. I was worried that both Mclaren’s seemed to losing time in S3, but in Q3 they managed to sort it out. The whole tow thing that Ferrari were trying to pull…not sure about that at all. As the commentators said, it smacks of trying to be too clever, plus Massa’s fasted lap was in free air. Alonso will be praying he keeps his nose clean at the start tomorrow!!
    Awesome from DiResta as well, such a shame he’s got the gearbox penalty.

    1. Lining up fifth on the grid is a really good result for Vettel and provided his alternator doesn’t pack in he’ll likely close the gap further on Alonso. For a track that really isn’t a “Red Bull track” a 5th pace or higher would be considered an excellent result.

      1. Especially if he can keep Alonso behind, indeed @vettel1, he won’t be very sad; I wouldn’t be surprised to see Vettel 4th or even 3rd the way he was driving in Spa.

      2. @vettel1 To be honest I don’t fancy his chances tomorrow. If he gets onto the podium I think that would be the best they could hope for. Their fundamental lack of top speed on the straights is going to be a real weakness, particularly when DRS comes into play. Rosberg and Raikkonen will be licking their lips..! But then Vettel’s race pace in Spa was very good, so it’s difficult to call.

        1. Well, if there is a crash at turn 1, then Vettel could even win.

        2. @bleeps_and_tweaks – indeed, it will be a much harder task than that of Spa: their pack of top speed will really hurt them as it’s unlikely he’ll be able to makeup the difference through the various chicanes, as Monza doesn’t lend itself to overtaking as much as Spa for sure. Provided he can build a gap though (which he constantly does) I think he has the experience to keep threat at bay. Remember Schumacher last year? (albeit he had higher top speed but the principal stands).

          1. Well, he’s only 8kph or so slower down the straights, and with his shorter 7th gear, due to the extra mass in the cars, he should be on approximately the same terms as everyone else in the early stages of the race, as it will be easier to accelerate that mass due to the shorter gear ratios.

  12. To be honest I’d be happy if Alonso finishes ahead of Vettel, Raikkonen and Webber.

  13. Schumacher said he was happy to start from the clean side of the gride, obviously noone had informed him about di Resta’s penalty.

    Vettel said that he expected to be more competitive tomorrow and also that everyone should have a more or less similar strategy. (1 pit stop?)

    I expect HAM, BUT, MAS and VET to fight for the victory tomorrow. Perhaps this is a unique chance for Massa to retain his seat at Ferrari.

    1. @girts, this performance from Massa is an enigma, obviously the Ferrari is very competitive here and the statistic that keeps coming into my mind is the places gained at the start which is often headed by Massa. Massa 1st. to turn 1 ?

  14. Well, this sets up an interesting situation, doesn’t it?

    Not only does this result work perfectly for both Button and Hamilton’s championship bids, it will also have ramifications for the Constructors’ Championship, what with Vettel and Webber well down the order. Twenty-four hours ago it looked like they could run away with it again, but now I’m beginning to think that Red Bull can be caught this year.

    1. Traverse Mark Senior (@)
      8th September 2012, 14:27

      I don’t think anyone (minus you) thought that Red Bull would “run away with it”.

    2. I’m not sure I’d call fifth on the grid “well down the order”…

      1. It’s down the order enough for it to be a problem, given the RB8’s lack of straight-line speed.

        1. Exactly, and it’s not like then can chance a one stop like they did in Spa to get one of their drivers further up the field; as everyone should be doing a one stop. Red Bull are definitley in a spot of bother here at Monza!

        2. Vettel lacked straight line speed last year as well. Still didn’t keep him from overtaking Alonso in a straight line.

          Or look at Spa last weekend.

          1. I won’t say the Red Bull was the fastest car, but they were not THAT bad in a straight line last year. You don’t get pole position in dry conditions with a slow car, end of. Their problems last year were not half so serious as they are this year. I believe, that is.

          2. Vettel was dead last in the speed trap last year.
            Slower top speed =/= slower car.
            Last year, what they lacked in straight line speed they made up for in cornering speed, acceleration out of the corners and braking into the corners.

    3. @prisoner-monkeys When I saw the Constructors points table after Spa I did start to think myself that for the first time in a couple of years they could be caught. Looking even more likely now, but Singapore couldn’t be further from Monza from a technical point of view.

    4. @prisoner-monkeys – I think Singapore will give a better indication as to how the championship will play out. It has more similarities with ty Ernest of the tracks on the calendar (i.e. outright speed not being such a big issue). Although I doubt anything will decided until at least Abu Dhabi, probably more likely Interalgos such have both championships being played out up until now.

  15. If it is an anti roll bar issue on Alonso’s car can they a) fix it, and b) will he be given a penalty for fixing it?

    1. a) yes
      b) no

      1. Thanks… and phew! That’s put me in a better mood.

      2. Agreed.

  16. Traverse Mark Senior (@)
    8th September 2012, 14:24

    Maybe this is the turning point in the season. Alonso’s luck may have run out just as McLaren have got there act together. They’ve sorted out their early season pit stop woes and the pace of the McLaren appears to be not only fast, but consistent (unlike the Lotus and Red Bulls).

    1. McLaren might have gotten their act together, Hamilton still hasn’t. Just look at Mr. sourpuss ‘celebrating’ his pole position. My sympathies for Hamilton are greatly diminishing.

      1. JimmyTheIllustratedBlindSolidSilverBeachStackapopolis III
        8th September 2012, 15:54

        button looked far more glum than lewis when they got out of the cars even if lewis had his shades on, he’s had them on since spa at least he had a smile button was —> :| and felipe was —> ^_^

      2. Yeah right, the guy’s just stuck it on pole and he hasn’t got it together. Mclaren badly let Hamilton down at the start of the season, there has been nothing wrong with his driving.

      3. I wondered if Hamilton might have been secretly regretting having signed for Mercedes, just as McLaren come good!
        Maybe it’ll be announced immediately after the race tomorrow . . .

        1. That would be a nice explanation, although I don’t understand why he would announce his switch to Mercedes in Ferrari land.

        2. Traverse Mark Senior (@)
          8th September 2012, 17:16

          Lol!, You might just be onto something there…

  17. So, Alonso’s bad luck continues…

    1. Well he’s had the majority of his luck (If he has any left) earlier in the season & part of his story of his career has been based on benefiting from others’ misfortunes & making the most of his given opportunities so I guess it’s karma for him or the luck balancing itself out, the time when he needs luck mostly. An anti-roll bar failure was the issue for him in Q3, it’s interesting how Massa isn’t getting all the misfortunes given that he is a clear ‘no.2’ driver at the Scuderia.

      As for predictions, well that pretty much wrecked my prediction of Alonso grabbing pole but nevertheless I’m more delighted to see a McLaren front-row. Best qualifiers for me were Hamilton for doing all the talking on the track (action speak louder than words), Di Resta & Massa for the surprise results, annoying that grid-penalty has increasingly become for the former, plus P5 for Vettel is likened to a front-row start.

      Race should be intriguing to analyse: whether or not the McLarens will run away at the front (not the same using the phrase ‘run away’ for McLaren as it would’ve been likely Red Bull If anyone’s going to use the phrase), Vettel will get stuck behind the stubborn Mercedes of Schumi with the significantly greater straight-line speed & Alonso making his way through the field, providing he doesn’t hit any more issues in incidents, which is vital given he’s P10, should all be revealed (hopefully). Should be fascinating how the action & multiple strategies unfold throughout the race, excited already!

    2. Traverse Mark Senior (@)
      8th September 2012, 17:17

      GOOD! lol

  18. Alonso very unlucky again, best possible finish place on tomorrow´s race will be 3rd. Despite that no big surprises, everything more or less as expected, well done Di Resta he was the best of the “others”.
    Hope Massa can bring the fight to the Mclarens or it will be boring at the front.

    1. Massa was good fighter when he had pace. We may see old Massa again.

  19. Two doses of bad luck in a row for Alonso.Hope he had a good race from tenth on the grid.

  20. Very pleased to see Hamilton on pole again, and Alonso’s run of bad luck if just what the championship needs; unless you’re an Alonso or Ferrari fan, of course.

    Seeing Lewis this downbeat makes me very worried, though. Last time I saw him like this was after his break with his girlfriend, around Korea 2011. I only hope this time he hasn’t broken up with McLaren, because a move to Mercedes would be similar to Alonso’s return to Renault in 2008 and 2009 – a collossal waste of time and talent (well, alright, Mercedes is not that bad, but they haven’t produced anything yet to challenge the McLarens over a season).

    The signs are not good, though. Whitmarsh’s comment in press saying he wants a fully committed driver, and that he has been told beautiful things by Hamilton and his management, but won’t believe them until the ink is on the paper (I’m paraphrasing here, of course), sounds ominous.

    1. I totally concur. Signs are things are not good internally. Lewis has never been godd masking his emotions. I think leaving McLaren will be good for him. He has never had any faith in Whitmarsh’s decisions regarding him (on track tactics), and Whitmarsh’s barely masked preference for Button has not helped his confidence on the issue either. If to Mercedes, or even Lotus, it is probably best for all involved.

      1. Except for Mercedes being a dog of a car.

      2. “Whitmarsh’s barely masked preference for Button has not helped his confidence on the issue either”

        I really don’t think this is the case. I agree that sometimes it looks like the Button side of the garage gets tactical calls right whilst Hamilton flounders with bad decisions, but the suggestion that this is somehow planned is unlikely and counter productive for the team.

  21. Alonso’s failure is all the more frustrating as he said that Ferrari had missed “the easiest Pole of the year” due to his car’s failure. He said that they had plenty of speed in reserve to get Alonso Pole. How different things might have been!

    1. If you take Massa’s lap as a benchmark, and look at how far ahead Alonso usually put his car then i would say he would definitely be on pole.

      1. That did cross my mind also. Even if Massa had a great performance today, there has been nothing all weekend to suggest he would have beaten Alonso. Give Alonso a modest 0.15sec improvement on Massa’s time and he’s on the front row!

  22. Only 3.6 seconds between P1 and P23. Very good I must say.

    1. tI was interesting to see de la Rosa topping the speed trap in one of the free practices, suprised commentators didn’t pick it up :)

    2. Traverse Mark Senior (@)
      8th September 2012, 16:16

      It’s impressive, but not amazing when you consider that Monza is a short circuit. Maybe that’s why the commentators didn’t pickup on it, or Sky’s attention to detail is just poor…

      1. Monza is NOT a short circuit, but it’s not very demanding for low-downforce cars. As there is no difference in engine power anymore, the 3.6-second difference is only due to time losses in a few corners. So the difference between the frontrunners and the backmarkers is track-dependent, with Albert Park being one of the toughest tracks for bad cars and Monza one of the easiest tracks. When correcting for track-dependent performance differences, I don’t think teams like hrt and Virgin have caught up this year. Even Caterham is still way off the Toro Rosso’s pace.

        1. Traverse Mark Senior (@)
          8th September 2012, 18:05

          I should have said Monza is one of the quickest tracks rather than short.
          I agree with your analysis of HRT and Marussia, they have to show some progress soon, although I believe that the writing is on the wall for the minnows (Less so Caterham).

  23. i think di Resta challenge for the win tomorrow, it’s a track that will allow overtaking and i feel Force India will be quicker in the race setup than most of the guys in front. However the strongest candidate is Hamilton and followed by Button. Alonso will have to bring the car home with as much points as possible w/o taking much risks and try to hang on to the lead in the championship.

    1. Trouble for Alonso is he’ll be right in the thick of it at turn 1. If he can avoid getting punted off he should move up the order pretty quickly. Wouldn’t be surprised if they one stopped him, providing he can look after the hards.

      1. It is a one stop for everyone in theory (except Merc) so that won’t gain him anything surely.

  24. Survive Turn 1 at Monza then you can race. usually the race starts after Turn 1 and not when the lights go out.

  25. Smashaton in Turn out Alonso..Maldonado is close by..if it gets hairy just let the hare go..catch up later.

    1. Maldonado has a 10 place grid-penalty, demoting to the far end of the grid so unless he does a Liuzzi, I honestly don’t see him getting anywhere near Alonso but & it’s a big but – anything can happen like we experienced with Liuzzi’s bowling antics.

      1. With the unfortunate pins being Rosberg and Petrov(or was it Senna?)

        1. @chicanef1 Petrov. You can see it unfolding in this picture:

          Start, Monza, 2011

          1. OK Thanks again!!

      2. LOL. I remember that accident all too well. But don’t forget Alonso managed to win his home race in Valencia from p11. If his race pace is good, I wouldn’t be surprised if he manages to do it again.

        1. Monza race is one of the shortest(in terms of time duration).

  26. I´m a Ferrari fan but, I can´t help it and wonder that this was somehow fixed… think about it… a McLaren 1-2 and Alonso is still in the lead…. Massa needed Alonso to help him qualify up top so Ferrari can really start adding points and even though Alonso starts 10th… I reckon he can work his way up to 4th or 5th. The RBR have no straight line pace so they will be no match.. The only real obstacles to work his way up are going to be the Mercs and Force Indias… The Renault powered cars are at a deficit here so Kimi will have nothing to do aswell… Monza is all about speed and the Ferrari seems to have it as well as the McLarens so yeah…. I think it´ll be a ML 1-2 and Ferrari 3-4…
    I know it seems crazy but it has been a weird season..

    1. Correct me if I’m wrong but Massas quickest time that put him P3 came in free air without Alonsos help. Give credit where credit is due, Massa was on it today and it was good to see.

      1. I agree but he did catch a bit of Alonso´s slipstream… not a whole lot but he did just catch a bit…

  27. A good thing for Alonso is, it’s sort of mechanical failure, It should have happened sooner or later unless they found early sign.

    It was able to fail 1) earlier, which means totally distrous qualifying for him 2) later, I mean during the race. So it might be not that bad.

    Now I hope he and Massa would have good start(which is Ferrari is really good at) and enough pace to challenge for victory. It’s shame there’s little room for strategy due to harder compound tyres.

    1. And it is a track notoriously difficult for overtaking, being one of the narrowest purpose-built circuits in the world.

  28. Did you know that Kubica is back?!

    1. …in rallying.

  29. I don’t know about the rest but I’m having Massa in for a podium here. All or nothing.

  30. Lewis looks glum because things are not all rosy between him and McLaren. They have been like this for a while since Whitmarsh’s barely disguisable preference for Button became apparent. Both parties have been trying to paper over the cracks for a while, but it is only a matter of time before they run out of plaster or wallpaper. I think the time is alomost upon us.

    As far as Lewis is concerned, this prefence had led to the occurence of many tactical decisions which have not favoured him, or favoured Button at his expense. His issue is not only is he NOT a clear No.1, but Whitmarsh’s prefence for Button affects the team tactics usually dished out to him, thereby undermining his chances iof winning the WDC. He feels he is McLaren’s best chance of winning a world championship, and i don’t blame him for doing so.

    For these reasons, it is fair to say that Lewis no longer feels at home in McLaren since Martin Whitmarsh took over as team principal. His confidence is low, and his thinking constantly borders on paranoia. He has openly questioned many team decisions, tactics and mistakes – most of which, on the face of it, do look questionable.
    This is what Twittergate was about, and it deos not look like it will get better.

    It is no coincidence that the year widely considered to be his best (2007/ late 2008), where the ones where he felt (and majority of the fans too), that he had a No.1 status or prefential status to win the WDC.
    Whitmarsh’s approach, which is frangmented support at best, and a clear preference for the other driver at worst, has clearly not helped. Agree or not, all the drivers who have won WDC’s in his generation, have done so in teams where they received the lion share of support available.

    Yes, the money is a factor, Yes, a winning car is a factor, but these things are only being factors because of what is missing – being THE No.1 driver. Lewis would sign for McLaren in a hearbeat, if he felt the team would throw it’s weight behind him, as he clearly feels he is better placed to win a WDC more that Button is.
    McLaren have yet to learn, that supporting both drivers equally, or attempting to do so, is highly unlikely to bring home that WDC. Supporting both drivers, whilst having a clear undisguised preference for one – As RBR did in the later part of 2011, and McLaren did in the later part of 2008, and Brawn was accused of doing in the later part of 2009, can only lead to paranoia and a loss of motivation on the part of the driver concerned.

    A move to Mercedes or any other team will bethe best thing for all concerned.

    1. Well, in 2007 Hamilton was given a number one status, but it only served to expel Alonso, so I don’t think that’s a good example. Furthermore, in 2008 the championship battle was almost exclusively between McLaren and Ferrari (and Kubica in the first half of the season). From 2009 to now Red Bull has been a major factor in the championship and it has been much more difficult for Hamilton to stand out in a relatively poor car.

      I agree it is quite silly not to fully support Hamilton for the world drivers’ championship. McLaren are making the same mistakes as in 1999, when they didn’t use any team-orders. In the end Hakkinen miraculously managed to clinch the title, despite the dubious efforts of his team. Having said that, remember how McLaren ruined Button’s race in Hungary. It made me believe Button is still the number two driver at McLaren, but probably the McLaren outsmarted themselves.

  31. William Brierty
    8th September 2012, 18:11

    I think this whole “pole was easy for us” is just Fernando playing the game. He said that they could “easily” do 1.24.0 in Q2, and that they had an extra “three to four tenths in the pocket going into Q3”. Now anyone that has watched F1 in 2012 will know that generally improvements are a tenth/tenth and a half, in fact a lot of drivers go slower than their Q2 time because of used tyres or an attempt to preserve tyres. So three to four tenths over a relatively short lap is just preposterous. OK, I think Alonso could have got into the 23s, but so to, in my opinion, could Hamilton, because by Hamilton’s own admission, it was not a perfect lap.

    1. Could Lewis be playing the game, too?

      1. William Brierty
        8th September 2012, 19:02

        Lewis seldom plays the game, he just finds interesting and imaginative ways to get agitated by the media. Pyscological games are more the pass-times of Button, Vettel and particularly Alonso.

        1. Alonso, yes. Vettel…if he does play the game he’s not very good at it. And Button is probably the straightest shooter out there- he knows all about the game and pretty much ignores it. The we have Lewis, who, I think, has forgotten how not to play the game. Everything he says and does is a (often misguided) PR exercise. If he put as much effort into being the best driver out there as he does into appearing to be the best driver out there he’d be the reincarnation of Fangio. IMHO.

          1. William Brierty
            9th September 2012, 9:34

            Actually I completely agree. Hamilton is the best driver on the grid when he’s thinking about driving. Lately he’s been thinking about his management, Nicole, contracts, family greivances and all manner of things that have a greater importance to the world of rap than the world of F1. Hamilton and Vettel destroy their teamates because of their sheer speed (when I say Hamilton, I mean Kovalainen not Button) not because of Alonso-style games.

  32. been thinking, Mercedes have been having trouble with rear tyre wear, their solution was to reduce rear downforce. Does the loser down force of Monza potentially negate their problem?

    1. Reducing rear downforce may have an adverse effect on rear tyre wear, as it increases oversteer. But tyre wear doesn’t seem to be a problem this weekend. Given Mercedes’ high topspeed and their double DRS, their car should be fitted for this track, at least in qualifying. Practice showed otherwise.

  33. Can’t wait for the Lewis, Ross Brawn pairing!
    Lewis will never win Whitmarsh over, it’s a good he’s leaving sooner rather than later.

  34. And who could potentially replace Lewis at Mclaren?
    When the car is less than perfect, whilst undergoing development during a season, can they rely on Jenson to pull them through?

  35. I would put Nico Hulkenburg on McLaren to replace Hamilton, or if they want to go for publicity put Senna there.

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