Mark Webber, Red Bull, Buddh International Circuit, 2012

Webber says he won’t pull over for Vettel

F1 Fanatic round-up

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Mark Webber, Red Bull, Buddh International Circuit, 2012In the round-up: Mark Webber says he won’t yield to instructions to let his team mate win as long as he remains in contention for the championship.


Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Mark Webber ‘not pulling over for anyone’, including team-mate Sebastian Vettel (The Independent)

“Mathematically I have a chance (of winning the title), so if I’m in the lead this weekend, I’m not pulling over for anyone.”

Perez a doubt for Friday practice (BBC)

“Perez’s fitness will be assessed before a decision will be made on whether he can drive in the two sessions.

Bernie Ecclestone feeling ‘aggravated’ after being sued for ??248m (The Guardian)

“The state-owned Bavarian bank BayernLB has approached lawyers in Germany representing Ecclestone demanding $400m (??248m) as compensation for its apparent loss on the sale of Formula One to the private equity company CVC in 2006.”

F1 teams close to signing new commercial agreement (Reuters)

Ross Brawn: “I think there was broad agreement on all the various points. There were no rebellions, let’s put it that way.”

Teams to trial 2013 tyres in Brazil (Autosport)

Brawn: “The tyres appear as though they are going to be quite a lot different. They [Pirelli] are calling them more a radial than the current tyre, but we don’t know enough detail about the construction yet.”

Alonso: “everyone in the team wants this championship” (Ferrari)

“At the moment we have seen that Red Bull maybe has the fastest car, especially on Saturday. They will try and make the most of this strong point and we will try to use our strong points.”

Indian GP – Conference 1 (FIA)

Kimi Raikkonen: “I admit that I had some thoughts about the tyres before [coming back to F1] I did one private test – OK, it wasn’t the race tyres, it was some other even more worse tyres but I thought that they were fine.”

Former Lotus chief mechanic pays a visit to Watkins Glen (Star Gazzette)


Comment of the day

@Bobthevulcan on the state of the driver market:

So many deserving, promising young talents vying for a chance to get into Formula One, yet so little vacancies available.

We have a glut of drivers (Maldonado, di Resta, Hulkenberg) already with the midfield teams, struggling to get their big break. Combine this with emerging talents (Valsecchi, da Costa, Frijns, Razia) waiting in the wings. Some will get a shot at a drive, and some will lose out. Others will languish in a backmarker team, never to fulfill his potential.

And what of the future? At the moment, I can think of only two drivers who will be retiring in the near future ?ǣ Webber, probably after 2013, and Button sometime further down the road, maybe 2015. The rest ?ǣ Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Grosjean, Rosberg, Perez ?ǣ are, or will be, contracted to the top teams for years to come.

So even if these young drivers break through into F1, the odds are slim that there will even be available seats for them to progress toward, at least before a new generation of young talents arrives to up the already intense competition for a seat.

From the forum

Site updates

Due to a technical problem part of the F1 Fanatic Live menu will not be available this weekend. Hopefully this can be rectified soon.

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On this day in F1

The 1997 world championship was decided in controversial fashion in the European Grand Prix at Jerez.

Michael Schumacher led Jacques Villeneuve in the early stages but when Schumacher slowed Villeneuve pounced, diving down the inside at Curva Dry Sack – only for Schumacher turn into him.

But Schumacher failed to stop the Williams and skidded to a stop in a gravel trap. Villeneuve motored on to claim the third place he needed for the championship.

In the final laps first David Coulthard let Mika Hakkinen by into second, then Villeneuve let the two McLarens by to claim the top two places. That handed a debut win to Hakkinen as Villeneuve put a lock on the title.

Image ?? Red Bull/Getty images

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  • 40 comments on “Webber says he won’t pull over for Vettel”

    1. Last year when they tested the new Pirelli rubber, all the championships were really settled. But this year, the championship probably won’t be settled yet. Pirelli have said all year they don’t want a midseason tyre change because it would prompt some comments of favoritism. What’s changed?

      1. @raymondu999 i see your point, although it can’t really be made at the last race of the championship. you wouldn’t be able to say ‘this is favoritism towards team A or B’ based on a single, last race. although i do acknowledge the fact that it might get in the way of a championship battle. however, its also only on friday, not qualifying and the race.

        1. @andrewf1 Ah practice. That changes things then. I didn’t realise. I thought they were doing what they did last year and actually racing the tyres.

          But IF they were racing it – then I don’t see how they wouldn’t be slagged for potential favoritism, making tyres that favored their preferred title contender. Whether or not such accusations are true is an entirely different matter

    2. I wonder if Sergio Perez is really ill or if Sauber are putting Esteban Gutierrez to the test ahead of a possible drive next year?

      Perez wouldn’t want to admit to being “dropped” for a Friday so this would be a way for the team to justify putting a potential driver to the test ahead of next year…. just a theory anyway :).

      1. He does seem to get ill more often than other drivers, I can remember at least two more times when he was sick, but I reckon McLaren will do something about that next year maybe a more strict regime?

      2. Todd (@braketurnaccelerate)
        26th October 2012, 3:30

        Must have drank the water.

      3. @christopherf1 I don’t see why they would need to be all cloak and dagger about. Perez has exciting times ahead so I’m sure it wouldn’t be a problem for him to sit a session out while Sauber try out his replacement.

    3. Wonder if the story bubbling away and yet to explode is Ferrari’s pseudo political intervention over the matter of Italian marines on trial for killing innocent Indian fisherman, unprovoked, believing them to be Somali pirates. Ferrari intend to run the cars in a few hours with Italian military logos in support of their fellow nationals and express a desire for the Indian and Italian Authorities to resolve the matter quickly. Considering this is a matter for Indian jurisdiction, you would have to assume this is aimed more toward them than the Italian government.

      The Indian national online press have been carrying the story all day, but it is what will end up in print tomorrow that may fuel a Ferrari backlash. There have been a number of online expressions of outrage towards Ferrari, one commentator has said today he has turned his back on Ferrari and burned all his Ferrari gear. Another said he would respect Ferrari if they were prepared to lose points over this stand, suggesting they were grandstanding and were really more interested in a motor race competition than the lives/killings of Indians or even Italian marines.

      Another comment I saw was that the Indian regime would not dignify Ferrari with comment – if so the matter could pass into oblivion with maybe little comment. Yet is this not a breach of the FIA statute forbidding political actions/incitements. Even if it is an infringement, the present FIA executive is unlikely to take on Ferrari as the ‘collaborative approach’ to everything and the desire to avoid appearing ‘dictatorial’ surely precludes the image being cultivated.

      Still – Indian customs are paper intensive, highly time consuming affairs and were Ferrari to need an urgent part importing for qualifying or the race – who knows. Maybe not the smartest fight to pick for the Italian team.

      1. It’s a very odd and tone-deaf thing for ferrari to do.

      2. Supporting the marines who killed Indian fishermen with military logo’s is like telling to India “See how cannibalistic we Italians are !!”.India surely knows how cannibalistic the Italians are after it came to know that the Italians sentenced a bunch of their own scientists for 6 years for not warning about a earthquake which is about to come.Italy should at least try to show-off some Humanistic nature which they surely don’t have.

      3. @pelican @thejudge13 @keithcollantine I created a thread on the forum right after Ferrari announced this. Now Indian Ministry of External Affairs has taken note. They have said ‘it is against the spirit. The matter is subjudice and Ferrari shouldnt hv done it’

      4. If Ferrari wanted to support its fellow italians, Luca Montazemolo (sp) only had to say something like “Our condolences to the families of the fishermen, all of italy deeply regrets this mistake, but we hope that our marines will be released in due course.” (Is he still planning a political career? this is political child’s play) Putting the navy’s flag on the car makes it seem like they’re taunting India. But I doubt that anything will come of it.

      5. Bubbling and boiling up – if not yet over!

        So, Ferrari won’t be drawn into their own controversy: Dominicali was asked at the team press conference about the political storm Ferrari have created by stating they will run the Italian military naval flag on their cars this weekend, he responded “”If you look behind in the past we have done a lot of initiatives, but there is nothing I want to get into specifically because this is not the place we should do it”.

        He was then asked whether the team would review their position he retorted, “”Honestly I don’t think it is a matter of this press conference to discuss this subject. If you have any questions, we have a press office.” Dominicali added, “”There is not any political intents or discussion – that is what is written.”

        Indian news agencies quoted Syed Akbaruddin, an official spokesperson in the ministry of external affairs, as saying: “Using sporting events to promote cause which are not of a sporting nature is not in keeping with the spirit of sports.” – Jolly low key I thought

        Ferrari at times appear barely capable of managing the politics of a mere racing car business, so how on earth were they persuaded that they had the deftness of touch to intervene in the delicacies of an international diplomatic dispute between two sovereign governments?

        To be fair to the often maligned Mr. Ecclestone, he has recognised the political time bomb Ferrari have dropped and is quickly into damage limitation mode on first practice day in India. Ecclestone told Indian reporters today, “We [F1] are not a political organisation. What we can do is we can talk to the national sporting authority and let’s see what can be done. We’ll keep politics out of it” Bernie assured the media.

        And guess what – Nothing from monsieur Todt.

    4. Bob (@bobthevulcan)
      26th October 2012, 3:11

      While I understand the sentiment against the Pirelli “tyre lottery”, I do feel that Pirelli have done and are doing a good job. Changing the compounds and tyre design from year to year is a neat idea in my opinion, in that is a test of teams’ skill and adaptability, rather than blind luck as some have claimed – the most technically proficient team is able to better understand the new tyres and make them work better with their car, while the team unable to get a grip (pun not intended) on them loses out.

      (Also, thank you, @keithcollantine, for Comment of the Day!)

      1. @bobthevulcan No problem :-)

    5. LOL @ Webber. Does anyone actually remember time when ha had to pull over for Vettel.

      1. Yeah… I can barely remember the times Mark was in front of Vettel. It always seemed that when the championhip started heating up, Vettel was infront of his teammate on every occasion and never needed any favours

        1. @geekracer2000 @todfod Ok it may be true but that’s a bit mean to laugh at it you guys :P

          Webber’s said this before though. Look back after Singapore 2009. He said he would move over, before then saying he wouldn’t several days later.

      2. Webber may attract the f1 fanatics with his coolness but when it comes to real racing he is no way in match to Vettel.I wish vettel to have Hamilton or Alonso as his team-mates so that he will come to know that how stupid he(Vettel) is with a car like that

        1. @laghfish – “How stupid he is with a car like that”? For all we know, the F2012 needs someone better than the current Massa to prove how good it is.

        2. @lagfish How do we know that Ferrari/McLaren isn’t actually 3 seconds quicker than the Red Bull? We don’t. We never will until we see them as teammates, or at least hold a common teammate.

          1. And Webber is no slouch to be honest. Remember him getting so close to pole so many times in that dog of a Jaguar?

    6. Regarding Mark’s comment: To me it’s very obvious that Mark is quicker ( read it as better ) driver than Sebastian. Observing the cars’ performance and the drivers’ performance it’s easy to spot when RB has inferior car that Mark excels Sebastian. Every time, every bloody time when they have a dominant car Seb is doing better than Mark. A school example of unequal treatment!

      1. Quicker in bad cars is not the same thing as quicker in good cars. Some drivers I’ve worked with are in fact more competitive when the car is bad.

        1. You probably refer to Fisico? But that’s not the case with Mark. Guy has won two Monaco GPs, that’s really something. Something Giancarlo could only dream of…

          1. Mark did well in those 2 Monaco GPs, Boomerang, but doesn’t justify him being faster or better than Seb when RB was inferior or Mark being held back by unequal treatment (in fairness you said it was a clumsy choice of words). This season, RBR were off the leading pace (inferior) in Australia, Malaysia, China, Spain, Hungary, Belgium and Italy, and only in China was Webber faster.

            As raymondu999 has said before, there are certain tracks, like Monaco, Nurburgring or Silverstone where Webber’s performance is better relative to other tracks, and probably have a link to the characteristics of the car that he is more comfortable with.

      2. I think its simply down to their driving style.
        Recently when the car have been bad it has been the rear of the car that has been the issue. 2010 with the primitive blown diffuser Webber was generally better. When they introduced the new engine mapping, which gave it consistent downforce at the rear Vettel was on form once again.
        This year has been sort of the same thing. In the beginning Vettel had problems because the rear tunnel work wasn’t working perfectly and the rear downforce would again change depending on the throttle position. Vettel doesn’t like that. Webber on the other hand does not have a problem with it. Now the tunnel system has been evolved to generate downforce more consistently, and again we see what Vettel can actually do.

        1. @raymondu999 , @mads I don’t even think Webber is faster in slower cars. @mnmracer explains why, looking over the races where RBR haven’t been that fast. Boomerang is just trying to wind-up.

          1. @david-a @mnmracer to be honest, I think I and Boomerang were just clumsy with our wording. Slow is the wrong word. But when the Red Bull has had high speed understeer (a trait of the early RB8 and midseason RB6), Vettel doesn’t cope as well as Mark.

            Generally Seb copes better than Mark with oversteer, but high speed understeer, he falls short of Mark.

            Don’t forget Mark has a lot more experience with TC in F1 cars – TC F1 cars always had some extra understeer whenever the throttle was pushed down.

            1. Cheers mate. Yeah, I admit clumsy choice of words but I must admit also contradiction in stable rear of the car and coping good with oversteer. If the rear is stabil than your car is more likely to understeer something Mark is better coping with, according to your comment. What we can see is that Seb is doing great when the rear is stabil and Mark is better with the loose rear. Intteresting indeed…

      3. Let’s see, races where the Red Bull was inferior:
        * Spain ’09 – Webber
        * Europe ’09 – Vettel
        * Hungary ’09 – Webber
        * Belgium ’09 – Vettel
        * Singapore ’09 – Vettel
        * Canada ’10 – Vettel
        * Italy ’10 – Vettel
        * Germany ’11 – Webber
        * Australia ’12 – Vettel
        * Malaysia ’12 – Vettel on speed (he was ahead of Webber before the cucumber incident)
        * China ’12 – Webber
        * Spain ’12 – Vettel
        * Hungary ’12 – Vettel
        * Italy ’12 – Vettel

        Maybe my count is off, but ‘every bloody time’?

    7. This is what he told in korea….but he couldn’t even wait for 10 seconds before pulling over…..Webber you are a disgrace to Australia…!!

      1. @laghfish
        Oh please. Stop that all ready.
        If you look at the first corner in Korea and apply just a bit of common sense then you would know that Webber did NOT just move over and let Vettel go.
        First of all because he fought back into T3, and secondly because it would be absolutely mental to get a bad start on purpose when there are fast starting Ferrari’s and McLaren’s just a few meters behind.
        If he wanted to give up the position to Vettel then he would at the earliest have done it on lap 1 into T3 or even T4, but more likely have waited a few laps to make sure that he is going to get eaten by a Ferrari in the process and then let Vettel through.

    8. “No no no… you’ve hit him in the wrong place, Michael!”

      I’ll always remember that bit of commentary from Martin Brundle on that 1997 European Grand Prix race day.

    9. Well looking into some data it is not hard to see why so little seats are opening up.
      I did some numbers on all drivers who competed in Formula 1 from 2000 up until now. Their average career lasts 5 years. I counted 1 year as a season in which a driver raced in at least one race, which is not super accurate but a lot simpler for me. So the average is actually a bit lower.
      That added up with the fact that good or decent drivers usually stretch that up means there is little room every year for fresh blood.

    10. Can’t wait for the Mansell Collection to open (because it’s in Jersey!)

    11. Of course RBR won’t use team orders, they didn’t at the end of 2010 so why would they in 2012.

      1. Back in 2010 Webber, Vettel and Alonso all had an equal realistic chance of taking the title so Red Bull wouldn’t have needed to use team orders. Especially considering Webber was ahead in the championship at Abu Dhabi.

        Now in 2012 the only 2 drivers that have any realistic chance of taking the title are Vettel and Alonso (you’d have to be deluded to think otherwise) therefore it would be a bit more sensible, albeit slightly distasteful, for them to use team orders if Webber was ahead.

    12. I’m using 2010 is an example of the culture at RBR, with one driver 21 points ahead with 4 races to go they didn’t use team orders… I’m not saying the 2 seasons are the same, obviously!

      1. @katederby I think a better example would be the lack of team orders in 2009.

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