Media claim Ferrari may ‘protest’ Vettel

F1 Fanatic round-up

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In the round-up: Conflicting reports over whether Ferrari are trying to take action to have Sebastian Vettel stripped of his drivers’ championship title.


Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Ferrari mull protest over Vettel’s title win (Reuters)

As I was putting today’s round-up together reports emerged on several websites claiming Ferrari are considering a protest against Sebastian Vettel’s sixth place in the Brazilian Grand Prix. As mentioned in yesterday’s round-up, some people had queried whether Vettel had overtaken one or more rivals under yellow flags during the race.

Although the deadline for protesting the results of the race has passed the FIA may choose to look into it themselves. The latest date at which that can be done is tomorrow.

There is no indication as yet that the FIA were unaware of any of the events during the race. As explained in the thread, there is ample reason to believe Vettel’s driving was legal.

Some of the salient details of the incident, such as Vettel passing the floppy marker which denotes the beginning of the marshal zone where he made the pass, have been widely overlooked in the coverage elsewhere. This explanation from a flag marshal supports that analysis.

I made some enquiries about the incident on Tuesday and if I receive any relevant information I will of course share it, most likely in the same forum thread.

A lot of ground has been covered in that thread so I encourage anyone who’s new to this story to read it to see everything we’ve worked out, explained and hypothesised about it so far:

Alonso presiona a Ferrari para que recurra el t?�?�tulo mundial de Vettel (ABS, Spanish)

This Spanish newspaper claims Ferrari communications director Luca Colajanni has said they will not attempt to have the results of the Brazilian Grand Prix changed.

Razlan Razali – CEO, Sepang International Circuit (iSportConnect)

“With Malaysia and Singapore, they are in the same region and I think it is bad for Singapore and Malaysia. I think the impact upon audiences could be greater if Malaysia and Singapore alternate races, rather than both being in the same year.”

I’m only thinking about F1 (ESPN)

Max Chilton: “Another development over the weekend was the announcement that Charles [Pic] is joining Caterham next season. I had an inkling that he was going but you’re never quite sure and therefore you don’t assume until you hear it through the proper announcements. Obviously it’s a good chance for me to take his race seat but nothing’s done yet and we’re still trying to work on it.”

Horner: Vettel ignored gamesmanship (Autosport)

“I think there have been several of his opponents that have tried to [get under his skin]. It is part of sport isn’t it? Sebastian showed the true strength of his character because he has not got involved.”

Two sides to every story (Joe Saward)

“There was a meeting on Thursday in Sao Paulo during which the team decided whether or not it should take part in the race, because there were fears that some of the parts on the cars, notably the rear brakes had gone beyond their ‘lifing’. The decision, I am told, was left up to the drivers and they felt that it was the right thing to race, even if there was no future for the team.”

Sebastian Vettel deserved title (BBC)

Jaime Alguersuari: “In Melbourne, Alonso was 1.5 seconds off pole position. That same guy lost the championship by just three points in Brazil on Sunday. Six races later, that Ferrari was upgraded by half a second, and then another couple of tenths, and then some more. That’s amazing. You hardly ever see that.”

Maria De Villota has more eye surgery (The Times of India)

“Maria de Villota underwent a new surgical operation aimed at cranial and ocular reconstruction. The aim was to avoid future dysfunction due to the injuries caused by her accident.”

Niki Lauda Q&A: 2012 has been outstanding (F1)

“This season has been outstanding. It couldn’t have been better in terms of these ups and downs for the tyres and the cars. This has been the most entertaining season I have seen since I was racing, because when you are racing you have a completely different perspective.”

F1 diary: Brazilian grand prix (The Telegraph)

“During the afternoon, the media assembles in the Red Bull office – to await Vettel – when Webber strolls in. “Bloody hell,” he says, “I come to get a quiet bite to eat and you lot are here.” He then spots me and wanders over to ask how Mrs A’s cancer treatment is progressing. When I later relay news of his touching enquiry, it creates an instant feel-good factor back home. The Australian could be forgiven for having other things on his mind, but he’s a class act: dealing with people like him on a fortnightly basis is something I’ll miss.”

With a little help from your mate (Sky)

Mark Hughes: “There’s no denying that Massa was much more of an asset to Ferrari on Sunday than Webber was to Red Bull. But stepping back to look at the bigger picture, Webber has served his team brilliantly this year.”


Comment of the day

@Tee19810 is pleased to see Valtteri Bottas will drive for Williams next year:

I am extremely pleased by this announcement.

A lot of people knock Maldonado but he has genuine pace evidenced by his qualifying performances this year. He is the first Williams driver that has excited me in a number of years. Added to that he gained Williams first win in eight years! That surely proves he has something.

As for Bottas I’m very excited by him as well. Senna is a nice smiley guy but wasn’t that fast in all honesty. I do however hope he gets the race seat at Caterham as has been rumoured.

Lastly, Williams were knocked from every angle last year for taking on Senna due to his money backing sponsors. Well, Bottas has been taking on talent alone as he doesn’t have huge backing at all. I hope he lives up to the hype.

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Alex White, Crispin, djdaveyp85, Prisoner Monkeys, Wes and villalon!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

One year ago today Kimi Raikkonen’s 2012 F1 comeback with Lotus was confirmed (the team was still called Renault at the time):

Image © Red Bull/Getty images

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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119 comments on “Media claim Ferrari may ‘protest’ Vettel”

  1. Yeah, @keithcollantine I would like to protest yesterday COTD by @girts :p… I think I deserve, but I don´t have any japanese coments to aval this… but I gonna call myself samurai..

    1. You better not – a samurai is expected to commit suicide in case of defeat or disgrace… XD

      1. Yes, we do… but I´m a samurai and I won´t back out of this clain… I want that comment of the day… it should be mine.. I will commit Seppuku if I´m proved wrong #samurai

        1. @celeste You realise you can’t “turn” into a samurai right – you have to be born into a samurai family? :P

          1. @raymondu999 WHAT? But if Alonso is a samurai, why can´t I be a samurai? Or he isn´t really a samurai… that would mean he must commit seppuku or I will avenge every samurai in the world— >

          2. @celeste I can’t tell if your reply is a joke here – but in case it’s not – no, you can’t.

          3. @celeste @raymondu999 What a nice off-topic ;)

            There are no samurai families today. However in the past, in rare instances one could, through great talents, dedication or political favor, be granted the privilege to become the samurai. William Adams for example was appointed as a samurai by shogun Tokugawa Ieyasu.

            So… learn bushido, learn the language, learn the history of the samurai, train to be a weapons expert, be humble and always do the right thing. Then go back in time, gain political favor in Japan and presto! You will be a samurai in no time! :P

      2. @crr917 I’d still rather be a samurai than Yakuza – where you do other, more painful things for mistakes :P

        1. @maroonjack @raymondu999 yeah, I would like clarification on the subject that there is no more samurai in this era…

  2. Mark Hughes: “There’s no denying that Massa was much more of an asset to Ferrari on Sunday than Webber was to Red Bull. But stepping back to look at the bigger picture, Webber has served his team brilliantly this year.”

    That’s why Ferrari need to let Massa race next year. Specially if the late-season Massa continues like this next year…

    1. And that raises a huge question: If Massa starts 2013 in such a good form, will Ferrari make Alonso help him? And more importantly, will Alonso accept to help him?

      1. Depends is Santander’s cash-flow still out-weight LdM’s dignity :)

        1. If we’re going into conspiracy mode; it has been mentioned Massa has kept his seat due to Santander’s desire to grow in Brazil. Maybe Santander will rig 2013. ;)

      2. @carlitox Well, Kimi played support role in 2008. Don’t see why it’d be different with Alonso…

        I don’t think Massa can outrace Alonso over a whole season, but he sure can beat him in the odd race, and they should let him. He does more good than harm that way, like in Webber’s case.

        1. @fer-no65 it would be different BECAUSE it’s Alonso IMO. If for some reason the form does continue into next year – Alonso I don’t think is the kind of guy who will accept the number 2 label.

          1. @raymondu999 yeah, you’re right… that’s why it’d have been incredible to see Webber at Ferrari xDD Aussie doesn’t like that

        2. It’s more complicated. If you give your drivers equal run in first part of the season, and then one driver experience a downturn(bad luck or whatever) before mid season – yes.

          But with Alonso, Massa is expected to move over if he is leading in Australia and Alonso is second. Or at least it is how most of us perceive it is in Ferrari, of course I hope this is not the case and Massa gets to do fair race at least first 5-7 races.

          This means for Massa to get a chance to fight for the Championship, Alonso must suffer major bad luck in first …..10-12 races? :D

      3. In the hugely unlikely occurrence that Alonso is not able to compete for the driver title and Massa is, then yes of course Alonso would help him , Just like Schumacher helped Irvine in 1999.
        It would be a good bet that even if Massa is driving very well, then he will again be asked to let Alonso though if he is close behind. But really at this point that isn’t such a bad thing for Massa, he is picking up his career from the toilet these last few races, being a close rear gunner for Alonso in 2013 will make him very valuable to Ferrari once again.

        1. @the-last-pope

          Agree with you. It will be highly unlikely for Alonso to uncompetitive when Massa is over the course of a season. Massa never was and never will be as good as Alonso. Having said this, it is good to see him back on form,both drivers need to on the pace if one of them is to win the WDC and of course the WCC.

          Im sure Ferrari will allow them to race until a clear favourite between the two emerges at some point in the season. The Massa-Kimi combo worked quite well for a couple years. I think Alonso has changed in a big way since 07 and maybe even 10, if Massa is well and truly faster than him in a position to win the title, I’m sure he will help.

          1. @jaymenon

            After Alonso has just lost 2012 by 3 points, if they are close on track I think Massa would defer to Alonso even at the first race next season. Ferrari is Alonso’s now, in the same way Schumacher had it. Only if Massa can finish multiple positions or a large distance ahead of Alonso in the first few races of 2013 will a change in strategy be called for.

    2. Half-way through the season Massa and Senna were giving me reasons to fear a season without a Brazilian driver but then Massa resurged and earned his seat for 2013. He looks more confident and the day Ferrari tells him he’s free to fight Alonso (Luca is losing patience not only with engineers but also with Mr Alonso) I bet it will look like a Hamilton-Button thing.

      And for my surprise, Senna is likely to secure a seat at Force India. So Portuguese speaking fans like myself can rest once Razia and Felix da Costa will end up in F1 sooner than later (watch your back ‘Toro Rossians’)

      1. @jcost please link to a credible source which shows Luca is losing patience with Alonso?

        1. there’s no credible source @infy, you either trust me or just let it go, aight?

  3. Jaime’s article was interesting. He praises Force India for the development of their car to the end of the season. Later, he mentions that he is still hopeful of going racing for a good team next year. I’m sure the two are unrelated :-)

    1. Exactly what I thought!!!

  4. Have to say I’m disappointed in Alonso’s tweet if the translation I’ve read is accurate.

    If Vettel did break the rules I still don’t think he could be accused of cheating or bad sportsmanship, yet Alonso’s words claim a moral high ground as if this was the case.

    There’s clearly tension between them, given the ‘dirty tricks’ comments and so on, but it’d be nice if it stayed civil. Bitterness sells newspapers but not the sport as a whole.

    1. You can’t blame him for being bitter or any other outbursts, he lost his second title by narrowest of margins. But I think, now he realises the true value of his 2005 and 2006 titles, considering the circumstances how other contenders lost.

      I always felt that 2005 at least was not his title (personal opinion), but as of now, he deserves all the titles he got. Vettel got plenty of time to show people that he deserves his three.

    2. I’m surprised that Alonso and Ferrari didn’t take action any sooner, or comment on this straight after the race. There wasn’t one, but 2 or 3 incidents where Vettel clearly ignored the yellow flags and just got on with his racing. The more I look at the footage, the more shocking it seems that none of this information was brought to the notice of race viewers while the race was going on.

      I can clearly understand the frustrations of Ferrari when Vettel got away Scot free from causing an avoidable accident at the start and overtaking under yellow flags on multiple occassions. Not to mention how both the Toro Rosso drivers, as well as Schumacher, just moved out of the way and let him progress through the field. After getting through all of this unharmed, Vettel accuses Ferrari of using ‘Dirty tricks’.

      I cannot believe that the tweet from Fernando actually upset you… this seems like a very polite reply to everything Vettel and Red Bull have gotten away with over the weekend.

      1. Its really hard to tell, but I am skeptic about Ferrari not having known of this incident before and having found out it was not an illegal pass.
        Note how the team has not commented the issue at all, that rather points to them riding the wave of the media/fans discussing this and take the publicity angle out of their own failure to win it, and even better, take a bit of the glory off their rivals triumph.

      2. I think drivers must have their PR-free means to express their emotions. Alonso, and some of us, believe Vettel violated the rules and got away with it without penalization and it made difference in the title decision so…

      3. @todfod

        I agree. Its a bit late I think. I dont think anybody would want to win the title like this. Having said that, it is quite surprising that nobody noticed anything on Sunday. I kept asking myself how he made it up the field so fast after pointing the wrong way!!….

        Whatever the case, I just Ferrari and whoever else just leave it as it is. It would be bad for the sport’s image if the WDC is handed to the another driver a week after the race ended.

        1. @jaymenon10 . Agree. I really doubt the FIA would give the WDC to Alonso, as it would adversely affect f1’s credibility. Its annoying how inconsistent the stewards are with their decisions, and how oblivious their race monitoring team is.

          1. With regards to inconsistent stewarding and the several comments I have seen previously on here that the stewards didn’t give Vettle a penatly so not to affect the championship etc, I think the Stewards should get to see edited video evidence where the cars in the footage are made to be indistinguishable (make the cars all white or something… I am sure someone could write computer software to do that quickly :S ). That way there can be no bias towards any driver or any claims of favouritism from the stewards.

    3. @iamdanthomas What was the tweet?

    4. Have to say I’m disappointed in Alonso’s tweet if the translation I’ve read is accurate.

      Alonso’s words claim a moral high ground as if this was the case.

      I’m a spaniard and I can’t tell wether Alonso is claiming a moral high ground or not. Or, to be more precise, not higher than Vettel’s. The exact meaning of the tweet is not completely clear, let alone its purport.

      1. @zagal Could you offer us a translation? It’s always useful to get these from a native speaker rather than an automatic translation tool.

        1. @keithcollantine IMO, zagal possible translations are accurate enough. Translation is difficult because Alonso was in fact been ambiguous. He tried to put a poethical meaning into his words. I wouldn’t expect a better use of his own language, coming from a man which recognizes himself as a bad reader.
          You can accept also a more straight translation in “Right rules are my miracles”. Anyway, have no doubts that the tweet has a moral/ethical meaning, clearly pointed to Vettel. People responses to the tweet support that interpretation, almost all supporting or rejecting emphatically Vettel’s performance at the race.
          Anyway, I didn’t expect a less disappointing statement from him or Scuderia Ferrari members. They’re acting as very sore losers, pointing to any excuses they can find for losing WDC.
          I hope we can help you. Maybe user Fer no. 65 can help you with it, I know he’s a native spanish speaker and he is also a very good english one. (Of course better than me, that’s easy for anyone ;) )

        2. Hola. This message is extracted from the Samurai Creed. The English version of this sentence in the creed is: “I have no miracles; I make righteous laws my miracles”.

          I bet pretty clear now, hehe.
          Open to any knid of interpretation but IMO he refers to the Vettel yellow flag incident and probably also to the Japan repreimand he mentioned in the press conference.

          1. Ah, well spotted!

      2. The translation in Reuter’s article is “I cannot perform miracles. I make miracles within the rules” is wrong. Is not literal and makes assumptions trying to produce a more meaningful statement when the original is much more cryptic.
        I’m no expert, but from the original “No tengo milagros, Yo hago de las leyes correctas mis milagros.” I would better go with “I have no miracles, I make of/from the right laws my miracles”.
        I reckon is strange wording, but the fact is that the original Spanish is also strange. The of/from ambiguity is inherent in the Spanish original implying either “I make miracles using the right laws” or “There are no miracles, but right laws”.

        1. The problem is that the original tweet is not strictly correct spanish.
          “No tengo milagros” = “I don’t have miracles” is wrong. Yo can say “Yo hago milagros” = “I make miracles”. Then you can imagine he is trying to say that he hasn’t benefitted from any miracles, but in this case you would also phrase it in a different way.
          The second part of the tweet is even more complicated and you can only guess what he is trying to say, but Im quite sure that the only reasonable alternatives are “I make miracles using the right laws” or “There are no miracles, but right laws” which are completely different.

  5. Bob (@bobthevulcan)
    29th November 2012, 2:38

    With regard to Razlan Razali’s comments, I don’t think alternating races would be so much more beneficial than the current status quo. Both the Malaysian and Singapore Grands Prix seem to be pulling in the crowds irrespective of their geographical proximity, generating ample income to stay afloat, in an age where many races like Turkey and Korea have run into trouble from declining attendance and the burden of race-hosting fees. The “competition” between the two races seems to have done little in terms of adversely impacting each others’ profitability.

    Besides that, both races are of distinctly different character – Malaysia, held near the start of the season, is a more traditional grand prix held at a dedicated racing facility, Sepang, which is arguably one of the best modern circuits on the calendar. Whereas Singapore, held near the end of the season, is a night race on a street circuit, and as many have described it, the closest thing F1 has to an endurance round. The target clientele is also very different – Malaysia serves race fans predominantly from that country and elsewhere in South East Asia. Singapore caters primarily to businesses and commercially important persons utilizing the VIP boxes to entertain guests and talk shop, as well as tourists from Australasia.

    As they have done since 2008, both races should have no problem co-existing on the calendar for the foreseeable future. The only benefits I can see from having Malaysia and Singapore alternate hosting duties are reduced competition for the race organisers, and freeing up space on the calendar for another country to host a race. The latter point is admittedly an interesting prospect, especially when so many other countries are jostling for a slice of F1.

    1. If modern F1 is about business. It makes me a sad panda when I think about competency of who ever is organizing and promoting the Grand Prix in China, India and why we dont have Grand Prix in Mexico or Egypt or Russia.

      But then again, Formula 1, still trying to milk the old fashion TV rights on country by country basis, instead of go online/streaming world wide. I don’t think it’s Bernie’s fault, more of all the new people who can’t offer anything to F1, but very keen on getting slice of the pie.

      PS. I guess there are not as many good car sales man today, compare to old days if you can make Grand Prix in China or India a success (Bernie, Frank). Don’t get me on “the poor” countries, that are the countries that used to be a total sell out.

      1. Bob (@bobthevulcan)
        29th November 2012, 3:09

        Cheer up! Sochi, Russia, gets a race in 2014 (or at least, is contracted to hold it).

        In a sense, grands prix have become, like the FIFA World Cup or the Olympic Games, a commodity, prized for their international prestige value, even if their profit potential is questionable. However, television exposure is primarily what draws sponsors to teams, and that sponsorship money, in addition to FOM prize money from the sale of broadcast rights, is what keeps the teams afloat.

        1. Yes, but I think that if dependence on FOM was not as great as it is now, whole system would have adapted accordingly?

          I’m more inclined to make entry to GP dirt cheap(one of many ways) using FOM money and let teams invest in their marketing development to keep team at float rather than spend disproportion amount of money on Aero R&D. But then there is an ethical and bunch of other questions with having too many people at the GP venue, which in our days deemed dangerous compare to 60-80′.

    2. From the context of Razali’s comments, it looks like his concerns surround the need to make a race a “full entity”, which means surrounding the race with off-track entertainment just like Singapore has done with free big-name concerts and post-race parties for all ticketholders. To match this as they’ve been doing the past few years, I would assume that their race-hosting costs would have increased by a fair amount after years of simply hosting the race with little in the way of off-track activities. If these costs result in eroded profits and/or hiked-up ticket prices (Malaysian GP tickets are some of the cheapest, if memory serves) then you can understand why Razali sees Singapore’s presence as a direct threat to his establishment.

      1. Bob (@bobthevulcan)
        29th November 2012, 5:36

        Fair point, but my issue with his statement is the claim that:

        I think the impact upon audiences could be greater if Malaysia and Singapore alternate races, rather than both being in the same year.

        This would only serve to make Razali’s position easier, rather than actually benefitting the audience.

        Competition serves as an incentive to improve. Razali sees the Singapore GP as a threat to the Malaysian GP. What he can (and should) do to counteract that is to step up his own game, bolstering Sepang’s non-race offerings. He certainly has the resources to do it – the Malaysian GP has tremendous support from Petronas, and these subsidies are part of the reason why tickets are so affordable (you were correct in stating that).

        The end result is two races which cater to two different target audiences and which provide excellent entertainment value for spectators – good for the fans, and good for both countries. Alternating the races, as he suggested, would be the exact opposite – to use his own words: “bad for Singapore and Malaysia”.

        1. Thing is, Malaysia does see crowds go down since Singapore came on the market. So yes, its about cost and about getting the viewers to earn the cost made back.

          1. I like his comparison to MotoGP. This was a sneak peek into the arrogant approach F1 take. Look at Moto GP, it pulls in healthy crowds where ever it goes, primarily because it doesnt cost as much. This is reason why Malaysia pulls in good crowds on top of the fact that it has been coming here since the early 90s.

  6. There is an interesting video on youtube that shows VET passing VER while the yellow light indicating yellow flag conditions is still on his dash…maks you wonder how often this type of thing happens but is never picked up.

    1. @ivz this has been discussed to death in the forums

    2. davidnotcoulthard
      29th November 2012, 5:24

      It’s said that they passed an analog green flag that doesn’t update to the steering wheel, just before he made the move.

      1. davidnotcoulthard
        29th November 2012, 5:33

        Analog and non-electrical. I’m not sure, though,about how it updates the steering wheel. But if a green flag was shown, then shouldn’t it update the steering wheel about it?

    3. look at the first post in the roundup @ivy, Keith already goes into some detail on it, and links to a forum post with 11 pages of interesting views and informed discussion about the subject.

    1. ohhhhhhhhh

      1. @tdog I shall take that as a compliment to my supersleuth skills :P

      2. What goes around comes around, isn’t it?

    2. davidnotcoulthard
      29th November 2012, 5:32

      Perhaps not. I read on YallaF1 that Ferrari aren’t planning to appeal.

    3. @raymondu999 – Alonso’s Tweet could easily be interpreted as meaning that his “miracles” are limited by what he can do within the rules when he is racing on-track, and has nothing to do with challenging the passes.

      Even if Ferrari did challenge them, or if the FIA decided to investigate, and even if Vettel were found to have passed Vergne illegally, the I doubt the FIA would change the race result. That would likely be an unpopular move, and one that would set a very dangerous precedent. The last thing anyone wants is for teams to scour rule books, looking for minor infractions made by an opposing driver to get the championship results changed. I remember losing a lot of respect for McLaren back in 2007 when they tried to get Heidfeld, Kubica and Rosberg disqualified from the Brazilian Grand Prix for having illegally-cooled fuel. While it was a potential problem, Kazuki Nakajima was also found to have cool fuel – but he hadn’t finished ahead of Lewis Hamilton in the race. Take at face value, it appeared that McLaren were trying to get Heidfeld, Kubica and Rosberg disqualified so that Hamilton could be champion. The stewards acknoweldged that the cool fuel was in violation of the rules, but took no action because they felt that the benefit those drivers would have received was almost negligible, and there was no proof BMW Sauber or Williams had done it to gain a competitive edge. One likes to imagine that they chose this response because they knew exactly what McLaren were trying to do and were having none of it.

      Of course, if Vettel is guilty of an illegal pass, then the FIA has another problem: they can’t ignore it. Passing under yellows is a fairly serious offence, even if the immediate danger has passed. To ignore it, or to fine the team and/or Vettel would effectively say “it’s okay to break this rule if you’re competing for the championship”, or create a scenario where teams will break the rules because it suits them, knowing that they will only be faced with a fine.

      1. @prisoner-monkeys are you talking to me? I didn’t mention his tweet at all.

        1. @raymondu999 – Sorry, I assumed you were, because I couldn’t see anything else from Alonso in the round-up that you might have been responding to when you said it “seemed quite thhe departure from”, since Alonso’s Tweet implies that Ferrari might challenge it whereas Alonso as graciously accepted defeat in the past.

          That said, my belly is full of a birthday cake with quite a bit of rum in it. Perhaps not enough to prevent me from recalling the events of 2007 with clarity, but maybe enough to make me miss some other reference to Alonso that you were referring to.

          1. @prisoner-monkeys in 07 McLaren were saying that e a few drivers were using illegally coole fuel in Brazil. If those drivers were disqualified, Hamilton becomes champion, dislodging Raikkonen.

            Alonso back then wasn’t on best of terms with Hamilton and McLaren – and as such he probably preferred Raikkonen taking it, to Hamilton – hence saying that the result should stand (rather than going to Hamilton).

            Ferrari obviously had a WDC to lose, and issued a statement that McLaren protesting the fuel would be bad for the sport.

            I wasn’t referring to Alonso’s tweet, but rather, the apparent 180 in Ferrari and Fernando’s view. From “it would be bad for the sport” to pushing for a protest.

            Which reinforces the view that their comments from 07 were more in line with getting their preferred WDC, rather than preserving the sanctity of the sport.

          2. @raymondu999 – Call me a conspiracy theorist, but this might have been a political storm that has been over a decade in the making.

            When Fernando Alonso joined the sport, it was obvious that he was destined to go a long way. And when he picked up the drivers’ title in 2005 and 2006, it seemed a foregone conclusion that he would one day race for Ferrari. And when they finally got him, he was seen as the one to reverse Ferrari’s flagging fortunes. They lost the 2008 title by a single point, and in the cruellest way imaginable. They lost the 2009 title with a terrible car, usurped by a team that, by rights, shouldn’t have ever made it to the grid. 2010 was their first chance to turn things around, but they lost the title again when they covered the wrong Red Bull driver in Abu Dhabi. They never stood a chance in 2011, and now they’ve lost the title by three points despite having led most of it in a relatively-uncompetitive car.

            Serious questions are no doubt being asked at Maranello. It has been five years since they last won the World Drivers’ Championship, and they have lost the last three to a team owned by a company that produces energy drinks. Luca di Montezemolo has been a vocal critic of Red Bull in the past, even going to far as to propose that the World Constructors’ Championship be renamed the World Teams’ Championship because Red Bull have no right to call themselves a constructor since they do not build road-going cars.

            Between this, his demand for answers over the failed title bids in 2010 and 2012, and his political aspirations tying Ferrari into what it means to be Italian (thereby making him most-Italian since he runs Ferrari), I sense Luca’s hand in all of this. He’s always pulled the strings at Ferrari, and I would not be in the slightest bit surprised to learn that he is the one pushing for the team to challenge the race results and get Alonso declared champion. If so, one has to wonder what Alonso thinks of all this – if Ferrari successfully protested the race result and got him declared champion on a technicality, would Alonso protest by using the number 0 next year instead of the number 1?

            But maybe I’ve just been hanging out with the Illuminati too much. Say, are those black helicopters?

          3. @prisoner-monkeys Well Bernie… Illuminati… I won’t say anymore.

            Happy birthday by the way.

  7. Oh boy if Hamilton mad that comment on twitter!!!!!

    1. @img343
      As usual, he would called: Stupid. Idiot. Immature. Joke. Pathetic. Disrespectful. Brainless. Have-been…

  8. According to, Kamui Kobayashi has successfully raised 100 million yen – or $1.2 million.

    1. Wow, certainly a fan favourite. I can understand why suddenly some rumours of Lotus picking him up surface. First of all a line up of Kimi and Kamui could make for a big fan following.

      And off course they are still working Total to up their sponsorship to keep Grosjean in the car, so a bit of rumours about other drivers never hurt.

      1. @bascb

        I can understand why suddenly some rumours of Lotus picking him up surface.

        I know I made the case for Kobayashi going to Lotus the other day, and while I tried to make a decent argument in favour of it, sometimes I have to wonder about the source of the actual rumours. When you get a popular driver like Kobayashi or Raikkonen, there’s always a select group of fans who will present the most-favourable case for that driver, and a rumour starts on the internet that has nothing to do with reality. Remember when Raikkonen first went rallying, and Red Bull paid the bills? Half the internet insisted that this was Red Bull staking their claim on Raikkonen early, and that he would be joining Red Bull Racing in 2011. It never happened.

        So whenever rumours appear surrounding a popular driver like Koabayshi – particularly when I can’t track down the source of those rumours, like now – I have to wonder if there is really something to it, or if it’s just fans trying to convince themselves that their favourite driver has a shot at the most competitive seat available, regardless of whether or not they actually do.

        1. Having said that, I just found this article which indirectly links Kobayashi to Lotus.

          1. the link doesn’t work @prisoner-monkeys

          2. @bascb – Let’s try again, then:


            I find it interesting because it clearly quotes Gerard Lopez as saying that Lotus have to make a decision about their driver line-up – which means that they haven’t offered Grosjean a contract yet.

  9. I don’t why but have a feeling that in the future when Red Bull quits F1 it will be because of some scandal like this one (combined with uncompetitiveness of course, probably caused a Newey or Vettel departure).

    1. Don’t know why, even after Briatori, Renault stayed in F1, even if it ended up a somewhat different team. If they can keep on the upper half of the constructors standings, imo it would only be a question of whether or not they lose more money than they gain from F1 at that point.

      1. I dont think F1 is a money making proposition of any of the owners, probably a zero sum game at best. The old addage is “How to you make a small fortune in racing? Start with a big one”

        No, the reason I believe Renault stays in F1 is for the prestige. They are an auto maker and F1 is the highest expression of the automobile. Even moderate success in racing add value to their brand and perceived product value. “Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday”.

        RedBull’s reasons are similar, but not they same. They market to “Extreme Activity Enthusists”. You will see RB signage at every single major event for ww kayaing, snowboarding, skydiving, mountain biking, skateboaring and others. As long as F1 involvement is in line with those goals ie. they remain competitive, they will stay remain a team owner; similarly, when their involvement is considered less the Alpha, less than “winning”…

  10. A very bit Happy Birthday to all of you @alex-white, @Crispin, @djdaveyp85, as well as @Prisoner-Monkeys, Wes and @villalon

  11. It’s a bit sour grapes really.

    1. @xjr15jaaag I like Skittles. Does that count?

  12. Check this link. 12 minutes but very very clearly an illegal pass..

    1. Bob (@bobthevulcan)
      29th November 2012, 8:23

      It’s the same video that’s already been discussed on the forum thread. To summarize, there’s a marshal post on Reta Oposta (11:50 in the video) where a marshal can be seen waving a green flag. It’s very to spot in the video, but the forum threat has some gifs that clearly show it. The overtake was legal.

      1. Bob (@bobthevulcan)
        29th November 2012, 8:32

        *sorry for the typo, I meant “very hard to spot in the video”, and “forum thread”.

        1. Well I sat through all 12 minutes and you can clearly see the yellow warning lights on Vettels dashboard, the word “Flag” as he passes Vergne and the left hand side yellow flashing at the Marshall’s post. It couldn’t be clearer.

          I would however, be grateful if you could explain why that might be wrong about that interpretation – I’ve watched it four times now!. I thought the guy’s video explained it excellently.

          PS I have no beef about the outcome – it will be what it will be. I’m a genuine F1 fan!

          1. Bob (@bobthevulcan)
            29th November 2012, 9:58

            @baron – Go to the forum thread. There’s this very handy gif, and some freeze-frame images, clearly showing a marshal physically waving a green flag. It’s been discussed to death by many users, and the consensus is that there was a green flag present.

          2. Bob (@bobthevulcan)
            29th November 2012, 10:02

            Just to add on what to look for, watch the marshal post structure in the top left, and you’ll see the flag being waved.

  13. I hope this yellow flag talk is over soon.

    How can it be, that a @keithcollantine /f1fanatic seems to be the only F1-related site that doesn’t have any of the bull from the media who like to make a scandal out of every move Vettel did in the race? I find this appaling.

    Jaime Alguersuari’s column was spot on, in my opinion. Both Alonso and Vettel had outstanding seasons. Both of them deserved the title. It was a great and enjoyable year and we should move on now, anticipating 2013.

    I wish the good old times back, when the drivers wouldn’t complain endlessly on Twitter and made fools out of themselves.

    1. Media need clicks these days, for the lowest costs possible. That means it’s cheaper to just repeat eachother than to thouroughly investigate the matter at hand.

      When you follow this sport you have to know which media to trust, which to take with a grain of salt, which to avoid and which to interpret different because of the link between FOM and the outfit at hand.

      It’s why I check this site daily.

    2. @dennis I note Autosport haven’t written anything about it yet. I’m not sure ignoring the story entirely is the best response – it tends to fire up the knuckle-dragging tin foil-hat wearing conspiracy theory brigade – but I don’t see them getting carried away with it. If they’re simply waiting for more facts to come to lights then I think that’s entirely sensible.

      I do think there’s an element of backside-covering in the stories that suddenly appeared last night. There’s very little substance to them at all. Many airily refer to ‘reports in other countries’ but don’t offer anything of substance.

      One of the few to offer any kind of quote is the BBC who say Ferrari are “evaluating footage” – but there’s no indication whatsoever who said this, what their role is, or if they have any kind of link to Ferrari.

      1. I note Autosport haven’t written anything about it yet. I’m not sure ignoring the story entirely is the best response – it tends to fire up the knuckle-dragging tin foil-hat wearing conspiracy theory brigade – but I don’t see them getting carried away with it. If they’re simply waiting for more facts to come to lights then I think that’s entirely sensible.

        That certainly makes sense. When was the last time Autosport posted a story without any official confirmation to it?

    3. I see there’s a quote with a bit more substance in The Telegraph:

      A spokesman confirmed to The Telegraph on Wednesday night: “We are evaluating the footage. Anything that threatens the credibility of the championship has to be examined.”

  14. Fingers crossed Vettel retains the title. I’m surprised why Ferrari took 4 days to lodge a protest!

    1. @hari They still hasn´t done it…and as Keith pointed out, it seem they no longer can… FIA can choose to investigate…

      1. @celeste Ferrari can choose to protest as long as it’s before November 30th.

        1. That’s right. They have until tomorrow to lodge the protest. The million dollar question is if they’d be successful.

        2. Cue the old what F.I.A means, jokes….

      2. @celesteThis report from SpeedCafe suggests that Ferrari still have time to lodge an appeal if new evidence is found.

        1. @prisoner-monkeys There is no new information in that article which isn’t covered in the round-up and forum thread (above). And as it isn’t so much as bylined I’d doubt its trustworthiness even if it did tell us anything new.

          1. @keithcollantine – SpeedCafe has always been pretty good for domestic news, and I’ve never found them to have posted anything specious or questionable when it comes to the international categories. When they post the byline as “Speedcafe”, it’s the same as when ESPN credit “ESPN staff” as having written an article – namely, that there were several contributors involved.

    2. I think there’s no need to cross fingers. If he did not break any rules then he’s good, but if he did then the law must take its course.
      A ‘championship pardon’ wouldn’t really help the situation here.

  15. Does anyone know what is happening with HRT, wasnt there a deadline sometime this week for them to payup for entry into the 2013 season. I’ve not read anything other then this scuffle in spain involving team members and others, so I’m assuming that its all but confirmed that its just the 11 teams on the grid next year and that they didnt find anyone to buy the team.

    Perhaps it all just got swamped by the green/yellow flag (you descide which) news.

    1. @sjm – The deadline is November 30.

      1. Thanks for clearing that up.

    2. From the Joe Saward article above, we can see that this is all over. The team members were made redundant already in Austin, they were very close to not race at all in Brazil and now there are these reports about the confrontations in the HQ.
      For me it is pretty clear that HRT will close business and we are left to 11 teams in 2013 and I don’t see a last-minute decision to save the team or a new team emerging.

      1. Whilst this is sad, I guess it’ll help reduce traffic a bit.

      2. @bakano It’s such a shame as they’d just set themselves up in Spain with custom made facilities. A terrible loss of resources :(

  16. So Ferrari say they wont dispute, but the media say Ferrari will. Why are we still even talking about this?

  17. LoreMipsumdOtmElor
    29th November 2012, 9:51

    The FIA made it clear in 1994 that they would not alter the outcome of the championship if this would mean a different champion. They surely would not have penalised Schumacher in 1997 if Villeneuve retired.

    1. Times change, the FIA has changed a lot since ’94 and has a different person in charge. Its not to say they will or wont look at anything and change the results post-race. But to say the FIA wont because of something they said 22 years ago is perhaps not the best method to go by.

  18. Unless FIA can prove without a doubt that Vettel broke the yellow flag rules, they won’t do anything. And the ‘evidence’ that we have seen so far is questionable and clearly insufficient.

    I tend to believe that it’ s Ferrari’s dirty mind games that simply ain’t over yet. The latest reports seem to increase the likelihood of Vettel staying at RBR after next year and even after 2014. If that is the case, then Ferrari spread the rumours about Vettel joining them themselves and ‘Yellowgate’ might be just another chapter from the same book.

  19. Let’s just assume Vettel is guilty (which I very much doubt) of overtaking under yellows and is therefore given a 20+ second penalty and loses the championship.

    How bad would it make the FIA look? They have all this technology at their disposal and considering how quickly they gave penalties to Vettel and Massa at Spain for speeding under yellows, one would think someone overtaking under yellows would be a lot easier for them to find and penalise. Not to mention they would’ve denied Alonso the chance to celebrate on the podium with his team and have his moment of glory. This could’ve been dealt with during or even after the race, a simple statement saying Vettel was guilty and therefore is penalised or Vettel wasn’t guilty and therefore the result stands which would have sufficed and perhaps avoided this whole situation.

    It’s almost like they want to bring their own sport into dispute.

  20. The FIA is satisfied that Vettel’s pass was legal:

  21. So this round up was the media claiming that the media is claiming Ferrari might make a protest…? :P

    Glad it’s cleared up today though.

  22. “Knuckle dragging tin foil hat wearing conspiracy brigade”
    Thanks a lot for labeling people with legitimate questions this way. It is pathetic that any time anywhere in the world that something is questioned, especially when you use your eyes and can see something questionable, the whole group is simply labelled “conspiracy theory nutters”. Especially with RBR history of pushing and bending the rules. I thought it was also interesting that Vettel besides doing the normal “bullpen” q and a for reporters, there was no interview with BBC or Sky? Maybe so he could get out of town quickly to avoid being even slightly questioned. I am happy this has all been wrapped up and the season is over and done with. But please, stop labeling normal intelligent people in this simplistic and derogorty manner. Not everything in the world is black and white and sometimes there needs to be questions. Also the whole Torro Rosso thing is a sham, seriously Vettel had to really only make up so few places off of HRT, Caterham, Marussia, throw the Rosso’s in the mix and Schumi and that is quite ridiculous. In days past if you were last on the first lap, making it up to where Vettel ended up was almost unheard of.

    I love this website! Where else can true fans of F1 talk like this.
    Cant wait for next year! Come on Mercedes!!!!!!!!!!

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