Kimi Raikkonen and Daniel Ricciardo have been relegated two places on the grid for the Canadian Grand Prix.
Both were found to have broken the rule requiring drivers to leave the pit lane in the order they arrived at the exit during the stoppage in Q2. Both drivers were found to have left the pits in a position that was two places higher than the one they arrived in.
Pastor Maldonado, Sergio Perez and Jean-Eric Vergne were cleared of the same infraction. All were found not to have gained positions and Maldonado had lost a place.
All five drivers claimed they started outside of the fast lane because they were intending to make practice starts. The stewards ruled “this does not alleviate the requirement to leave in the
order of arrival at the end of the pit lane”.
Raikkonen was also investigated for doing the same in Q3. However the stewards deciding against punishing him after agreeing that the car he passed, that of Mark Webber, was “unduly delayed” because he did not pull away until two seconds after Q3 had begun.
Updated 2013 Canadian Grand Prix grid
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Image © Lotus/LAT
Manished
8th June 2013, 22:29
ROFL…as if there wasn’t enough bad luck already for Lotus camp…..
rambler
8th June 2013, 23:30
Such as?
Frofo
8th June 2013, 23:39
Kimi has no-one to blame but himself for being 2 seconds off the pace. Look at Bottas did in a Williams.
Manished
9th June 2013, 4:51
ROFL….i guess it was his fault then when his car couldn’t generate any heat at all under wet condition.
Mike (@mike)
9th June 2013, 5:27
It’s the problem of having a car so easy on it’s tyres. The car just doesn’t create the tyre temperate needed in the wet.
Kimi was never going to do well.
Kingshark (@kingshark)
8th June 2013, 22:31
2 place grid penalties exist now? Do the stewards just pick random numbers out of their rear?
Max Jacobson (@vettel1)
8th June 2013, 22:36
@kingshark
scratt (@scratt)
8th June 2013, 22:37
Which had zero affect on anything at all. Great decision.
Max Jacobson (@vettel1)
8th June 2013, 22:53
@scratt well it did break the rule and may well have affected any other’s qualifying efforts so I think the decision is reasonable. Besides, 2 places isn’t massive!
scratt (@scratt)
8th June 2013, 23:07
No it´s not.. and tomorrow will either be a run away win in the dry for Vettel with Bottas’ Williams holding people up.. or a crap shoot in the wet. The latter will at least let Alonso and Kimi do something.
It just irks me that the Stewards jump on this kind of thing but won´t tackle the kind of infractions we see race after race from Crashtor or Pastor.
Shreyas Mohanty (@)
9th June 2013, 14:31
@scratt You couldn’t be more off about the dry thing. This isn’t Monaco that Bottas will hold people up. In dry, He will be overtaken rapidly until he is among his own herd again. You fail to see that both Lotus and Ferrari are very easy on their tyres (the reason for under-performance in wet), so they will have great race pace! So this is when Kimi and Alonso will begin their charge.
scratt (@scratt)
9th June 2013, 15:13
Possible. However, the Red Bull is still fast, and passing is not as easy as you seem to think.
I think you are being way over optimistic.
Alonso and Kimi are not just going to breeze past 6 – 8 drivers and roll up behind Vettel and pass him. It doesn´t happen like that on any kind of track; one with or without good passing opportunities.
Harry Westwood (@sirspuddington)
9th June 2013, 16:41
Guys, guys, let’s all remember… The setup they qualify on is the one they use for the race, right? what if teams like ferrari and lotus just planned ahead hoping the race was dry and went for a better race setup? Ah, speculation… There’s only one way to know for sure, right?
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
8th June 2013, 23:05
@scratt As I explained to you earlier it may have affected the laps of the drivers they took position from. It stands to reason that’s why the rule is there to begin with.
scratt (@scratt)
8th June 2013, 23:08
rgr that. :) Was just going to reply actually.
My real frustration is actually explained in the comment I just left above.
Manished
8th June 2013, 22:36
hahaha, i believe their plan to introduce points system would be denied by all teams given the stewarding panels lacking credibility in giving out judgment.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
8th June 2013, 22:38
@kingshark The rules state (and have done for some time) that the stewards may impose “a drop of any number of grid positions”. Still I think this is the first time we’ve had a two-place drop. Three, five and ten have been seen before.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
8th June 2013, 23:03
Also, Raikkonen and Ricciardo only end up losing one place each due to the way the rules work. Explanation here.
firstLapNutcaseGrosjean (@)
8th June 2013, 23:41
Yeah, but not for this! This is first time in history?! Plus how much the team guilt was?
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
9th June 2013, 0:12
@sorin It wasn’t the teams’ fault at all – it was down to Raikkonen and Ricciardo where they stopped at the pit exit and how many cars they passed when they pulled away.
I don’t really understand the other part of your comment. It’s against the rules and if rules were never enforced for a first time they’d never be enforced at all.
BasCB (@bascb)
9th June 2013, 10:07
I think its good that the stewards have gone from giving a standard 5 place grid penalty to actually think about how much of an advantage was gained @kingshark. As its only 2 spots, its pretty clear that the advantage was not that great.
Younger Hamii (@younger-hamii)
9th June 2013, 11:10
@kingshark Keith just explained multiple times what I was going to say but since I was looking at the regulations briefly before seeing your comment I might as well dig it out:
“In the event of a driving infringement during any practice session the Stewards may drop the
driver such number of grid positions as they consider appropriate. Unless it is completely clear
that a driver committed a driving infringement any such incident will normally be investigated
after the relevant session.”
Qualifying, according to the regulations, is still a ‘practice session’, just mentioning it to avoid any further disputes. I do find it a bit strange how they’ve now started giving 2/3 grid penalties, like with Hamilton in India 2011, the latter was the first I’ve heard of such a grid drop other than the ‘standard’ 5/10 grid drops. A 2 place grid drop is fittingly appropriate as both Raikkonen and Ricciardo did exit the pits two places higher than they entered the pits when the red flag came out.
Joshua Mesh (@joshua-mesh)
8th June 2013, 22:32
Good news for his rivals.
David-A (@david-a)
8th June 2013, 22:37
Jeez, this guy just isn’t good at getting away from a standstill…
Oblong_Cheese (@oblong_cheese)
8th June 2013, 23:56
I think you will find he was waiting for his team mate to leave the pits… but I’m pretty sure you’re joking!
Come now, we couldn’t expect Webber to pull a Hamilton leaving the pits at Canada, eh? ;-)
obviously
9th June 2013, 14:26
I laughed SOOOOO hard on this one! XD
Alexander (@)
8th June 2013, 22:39
Does this mean kimi can choose his starting tyres tomorrow??
Alexander (@)
8th June 2013, 22:41
Aah forgot about the wet quali..
tmekt (@tmekt)
8th June 2013, 22:42
Everybody can if it’s a dry race, not sure what the regulations are if they start on interns.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
8th June 2013, 22:47
@alexanderfin All the drivers can anyway because no one used slicks in Q3.
(Had Raikkonen qualified on slicks in Q3 and then received a penalty relegating him outside of the top ten, the answer would be no.)
Victor. (@victor)
8th June 2013, 22:40
Is that rule relatively recent? Because I remember Kubica overtaking everyone by simply starting next to whoever was in front in quali in I think Malaysia 2010 it was.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
8th June 2013, 22:48
@victor Yes it was introduced after that – it was new in 2011:
The 2011 F1 rules changes at-a-glance
Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
9th June 2013, 3:50
I have to dig deep, I’m pretty sure this has happened before and no one cared about it. All I say is to Lotus to sign that tyre agreement asap.
obviously
9th June 2013, 14:33
What are you on about? And why should they sign it if it takes away their advantage?
Lin1876 (@lin1876)
8th June 2013, 22:47
How, exactly, does this affect anything? I’m not even sure what they’ve done.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
8th June 2013, 23:11
@lin1876 (and @davef1) Here’s an example.
Lin1876 (@lin1876)
8th June 2013, 23:19
@keithcollantine I get it now.
DaveF1 (@davef1)
8th June 2013, 22:48
Absolutely ridiculous penalty that affected nobody in the end.
But anyway if it was a dry quali would it mean that Ricciardo still had to start on the tyres he qualified on or could he choose?
Mads (@mads)
8th June 2013, 23:03
@davef1
Whether it affected others or not isn’t all that relevant. If a driver is caught speeding in the pitlane he is also penalized. The rules are the rules and they must be followed.
George (@george)
8th June 2013, 22:49
I think this is fair to be honest, it looked pretty messy from the outside, especially considering the guys at the back didn’t manage to make it before the flag.
firstLapNutcaseGrosjean (@)
8th June 2013, 23:47
It’s not Raikkonen fault for that. They had plenty of time.
Angelia (@angelia)
8th June 2013, 22:49
I have seen drivers do this before, and no action was taken, the FIA is very consistent as usual.
Max Jacobson (@vettel1)
8th June 2013, 22:58
@angelina before 2011?
Angelia (@angelia)
9th June 2013, 2:06
I must admit that I forgot about the rule from 2011. Rules are rules so the penalty was right.
But again the FIA could be more consistent, as we often see drivers racing each other in the pitlane during a race without any penalties. Or drivers who only receiving reprimands for speeding in yellow zones. And in the last race drivers who were skipping the chicane as often as they wanted, the FIA used the be pretty strict about skipping the chicane. Or Rosberg blocking the other drivers today in qualifying, previously these types of cases have been penalized.
All of these examples are much more dangerous then two drivers lining up in the pitlane, and not driving out in the right position.
But that is how it goes, that is the FIA for you.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
9th June 2013, 11:53
The operative term here is “racing”. Ricciardo and Raikkonen were not racing – they were qualifying, and the rules dictate that they must leave the pits in a specific order. They didn’t, and so they got a penalty for it.
Again, it depends on when the infraction was committed. If they speed in yellow zones during qualifying or the race, they are going to get a ahrsher penalty than if they do it during free practice. And the rules on the proper procedure for yellow flags were rewritten in 2011.
And then they got the drivers’ steward in, and they have relaxed the rules about cutting over the chicane. They cannot do it intentionally, but the stewards won’t punish them for makign genuine mistakes.
The definition of a block holds that a driver has blocked if he forces another driver to slow down on their flying lap. And the stewards have access to the telemetry from each car, so if the drivers following Rosberg didn’t have to back off because of him, then he didn’t block them. There’s also a tolerance for wet weather.
See, the problem is that you’re assuming an infraction has been committed based on a single camera angle. The stewards have access too all the footage from all the angles, pit-to-car radio transmissions, telemetry and probably half a dozen other tools. They are much better equipped than you or I to judge these things.
sato113 (@sato113)
8th June 2013, 22:53
rubbish. i like to see racing out of the pits!
or is this more about lining up nicely at pit exit…?
tvm (@)
8th June 2013, 23:15
The pit lane is filled with people at both sides, not a place to race.
nackavich (@nackavich)
9th June 2013, 2:52
Even though its fairly dangerous, I have to admit seeing a virtual “race start” out of the pit lane on a Saturday was pretty ridiculously funny!
ShaneB457 (@shaneb12345678910)
8th June 2013, 22:54
Raikkonen’s love affair with the Montreal pit lane continues…
Joe Papp (@joepa)
9th June 2013, 3:35
hehe…
TerrenceF1
8th June 2013, 23:18
Good decision by FIA. Now I’m more interested for your next ridiculous investigations. Looking forward to it.
JALKMFE
8th June 2013, 23:30
What a joke Formula 1 is now, with a bunch of stupid rules. There’s no more racing? tires are a joke. And now if a driver farts some stupid gives him a place penalty. **** them.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
9th June 2013, 1:11
However obscure the rule might be, it is still a rule, and the drivers are expected to be familiar with it. If they aren’t, then they deserve the penalty all the more.
aldoG
9th June 2013, 7:14
LOL… +1
Mike Dee (@mike-dee)
9th June 2013, 7:53
This rule does not seem stupid to me at all. If they give no penalty for this now, what will we have next time? Cars lining up four-abreast and going for a racing-style start when the light goes green?
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
9th June 2013, 11:18
I suspect that if we were talking about drivers like Giedo van der Garde or Esteban Gutierrez getting this kind of penalty, people wouldn’t care less. But because Kimi Raikkonen is one of the most popular drivers in the sport, people are up in arms about it.
Deej44 (@deej92)
9th June 2013, 22:12
Precisely. How can they give a penalty to the oh-so-great Kimi Raikkonen who never does anything wrong?
f1_paul
8th June 2013, 23:34
So Perez will start behind Raikkonen…
It may be interesting… ;)
Mike Dee (@mike-dee)
9th June 2013, 1:37
What would Red Bull had to do according to the rules if they wanted to line up? Their garages are right by the traffic light, so once a queue has formed they can’t really line up at the end anymore.
Irejag (@irejag)
9th June 2013, 4:01
They get penalties but Hamilton doesn’t get anything for reversing his car into traffic? He nearly took out Massa in Q2!
John H (@john-h)
9th June 2013, 12:41
Er.. what?
Do you mean Rosberg going forwards and nearly hitting Massa, or both Hamilton and Massa separately reversing out of an escape road perfectly safely and within the rules?
Irejag (@irejag)
9th June 2013, 13:44
Sorry, meant the Rosberg move. It is the stupid yellow helmets lol.
macrob
9th June 2013, 4:20
A penalty well deserved for Raikkonen, a lot of people seem to be blinded by Kimi’s “coolness” and “dont-give-a-****” attitude, and tend to overlook his mistakes…this time I believe he deserved the penalty, as he did in Monaco for blocking Perez (as stated by Jacques Villeneuve, he said the same thing during an interview today…).
darth.mikey (@darth-mikey)
9th June 2013, 8:27
So no one noticed there were other drivers doing exactly the same thing behind them ?
John H (@john-h)
9th June 2013, 8:42
But the other guys (not Rai or Ric) left in the order they arrived.
Ali Karami (@mw-arden)
9th June 2013, 9:27
what happened to Rosberg then??? he pushed 2 cars off the track, why shouldnt he be penalised?
Alex Brown (@splittimes)
9th June 2013, 9:41
I find it a bit rubbish that stuff like this needs policing. Just get on with it. Get to the end of the pitlane as soon as you can. If you’re too slow, boo hoo.
tvm (@)
9th June 2013, 9:45
When was the last F1 death?
Glenn (@glennb)
9th June 2013, 10:53
may 1st 1994
tvm (@)
9th June 2013, 11:54
That was a trap…
Max Jacobson (@vettel1)
9th June 2013, 12:29
@splittimes so suppose I blocked you on your flying lap because you “didn’t get out of the pits fast enough”, should we not police that?
Alex Brown (@splittimes)
9th June 2013, 18:09
@vettel1 @tvm I’m not saying it should be a free-for-all in the pits, and yesterday’s display showed the rule has nothing to do with safety. But I’m quite sure that if you can’t time your exit from the pits to optimise your lap, then try harder next time. And if you get blocked on a fast lap, I maintain the argument. Its often unfortunate, but rarely intentional or unsafe, and I think its the responsibility of all parties to ensure it doesn’t happen, not just the slow cars’. It only takes a small mistiming of looking in your mirror. If a driver is on a slow lap and isn’t looking in their mirrors, isn’t off-line etc, then yes, they’re driving unsafely.
I think, as I’ve mentioned before, the teams have too much power to complain and whine, armed with the threat of leaving the sport. These kind of infractions and penalties are relatively easy to police, with no moral losers (when it is accidental). But the punishment of genuinely dangerous driving is is almost nonexistant, because it could quickly become political, and that would mean departing sponsors.
tvm (@)
9th June 2013, 18:19
(@splittimes) I agree with there being to many ways to complain, I personally resent the “racing line right” that Raikkonen used at last race, leave a gap; expect it to be filled, this is racing. (Perez being crazy to think he could have pulled that is another matter… :) )
But when it comes to safety they need be hard, and I don’t agree with you that it was safe what those guys were doing, there was actually an unprotected photographer right in front of them on the pavement, there is reason for these rules, at lease one driver in the pack has severely injured a marshal when not respecting yellow. Should have been 5 places IMO.
Alex Brown (@splittimes)
9th June 2013, 18:36
@tvm They haven’t been punished for being unsafe, but for gaining track advantage. I fully agree with you that it wasn’t safe and that the punishments should have been harsher. I was a bit offended with your comment implying I was thinking recklessly, but I totally understand you now. And my first comment wasn’t clear at all.
TMF (@)
9th June 2013, 9:52
Seems reasonable. However the Rosberg thing should have been investigated and was enough for a reprimand, imo. Grosjean would start on 34th position had he done the same thing.
I hope the stewards will stop next year to take the history/status of a driver as a baseline for penalties – the point system should take care of educating drivers not the individual penalty.
Dion (@infinitygc)
9th June 2013, 11:01
I fully agree, what Rosberg did was dangerous and could be counted as a reason for various penalties (blocking and pushing other people of the track).
Max Jacobson (@vettel1)
9th June 2013, 12:33
I’m not so sure: the point of a penalty is to deter the respective driver from committing the offence again and to punish a driver from ruining someone else’s weekend/putting others at risk. So if all is needed for Rosberg is a talking to prevent any repeat occurrences which may have had more serious ramifications then I’d support that.
However, Grosjean clearly won’t take that on board and so he needs to be heavily punished because he just keeps making these stupid moves!
Irejag (@irejag)
9th June 2013, 13:47
Since Grojean is technically only going to be moving down 3 spots on the grid today, he should have the remaining 7 grid slots on the penalty carry over to the next race.
Max Jacobson (@vettel1)
9th June 2013, 18:54
@irejag Na, that just over-complicates matters! It’s punishment enough starting last IMO.
Irejag (@irejag)
10th June 2013, 2:18
If it were any other driver I would agree with you, but this is Grosjean. lol
Stretch (@stretch)
9th June 2013, 10:46
Perhaps Ricciardo’s penalty was a great strategy call by Torro Rosso. When the red flag came out, wasn’t Ricciardo 14th? He starts 11th, therefore a net gain of 3 grid positions including the penaty. Can’t remember what Kimi was at that stage.
So if your in the bottom 6 with a relatively poor time to what the car can do, and, limited on time, the strategy is to jump the rest as like Ricciardo, to increase the chance of one more lap. If they didn’t, Ricciardo might have done a Button and Webber, just missing out on starting his final lap and starting 14th. We might just see more of these handed out in future races.
stefano (@alfa145)
9th June 2013, 12:42
Anybody knows about tire choice for Rai, starting from 11th? Will it be still decided from quali?
beneboy (@beneboy)
9th June 2013, 14:13
@alfa145
Qualifying was wet; all the drivers can start the race on whatever tires they want.
stefano (@alfa145)
9th June 2013, 15:18
right