Ferrari testing at Magny-Cours to improve correlation

F1 Fanatic Round-up

Posted on

| Written by

In the round-up: Ferrari are testing at Magny-Cours with their 2011 car as they try to improve the data correlation.


Your daily digest of F1 news, views, features and more.

Ferrari: no crisis in Alonso relationship (Autosport)

“It has been testing this week at Magny-Cours with a 2011 car to complete a programme to check its simulator and track correlation. The test is taking place on Pirelli’s demonstration tyres, and the team has completed the necessary approval process with the FIA for running the car.”

Button bullish about second half of F1 season (The Telegraph)

“Spa is a low downforce circuit, and what we already have on the car will suit Spa more than here. I still say we should be able to fight for a podium. We might get there and it be a definite no no, but it’s what I’m aiming for.”

Michelin Interested In 2014 Series Return (Speed)

“While it’s long been assumed that Pirelli will remain as sole supplier in 2014, and has made commercial arrangements with both teams and Bernie Ecclestone, the bottom line is that it has not yet signed a deal with the FIA.”

Marussia hope to retain pair (Sky)

“I’d like to keep them both for next year. At the moment it depends on a variety of (contract) options and option expires and things like that. But we don’t intend to leave our decision as late as we did for this year.”

Tax issues must be solved – Mallya (ESPN)

“Their logic is that there are 19 races and one race is India, therefore 1/19th of all revenue generated in Formula One is subject to Indian tax. From a narrow-minded, Indian tax man’s point of thinking maybe that is justifiable, but we need to sit down with them and engage with them and say, ‘Listen, this is not the only country that’s hosting an F1 race. There are other countries that have been hosting F1 races for decades and they don’t make the same demands. So how can you?'”

F1 perfects formula for financial success (CNN)

“Essentially, 47.5% of the profits are split between all of the teams. That is what is known as the prize fund. In 2011, profits came to $1.1, 1.2 billion so 47.5% of that amounts to around $400-500 million and that is shared between the top ten. It’s not shared evenly, it’s based on performance.”

F1 still has drivers with opinions (MotorSport)

“Vettel, the youngest triple world champion, has a different approach when it comes to talking up his chances. Quite simply, he doesn’t. He talks a lot about taking it race by race and if the points add up at the end and if he is in front, then he will be champion. He keeps all the information about fastest laps, qualifying, race results, but he never looks at the driver standings. He once told me that after he won his first championship in Abu Dhabi in 2010, he woke up on Monday morning and went on to the internet just make sure he had actually become champion!”


Comment of the day

Not everyone is sorry to see the Indian Grand Prix off next year’s calendar:

The highlight of the Indian Grand Prix? A first lap battle between Alonso, Hamilton and Button last year. Done. A multi-billion pound facility and one moment of note.

So whilst it a good track to drive, a fun track to race on and seemingly was a historical new market for F1, that market doesn’t exist, and the track? A “Tilkedrome” in every sense of the word. Now all we need is South Korea to “skip a year”, or in other words for Bernie to flush yet another billion pound project down the toilet after seeing a market for F1 where there is none.

So assuming that tracks like India and Korea join circuits like Istanbul Park, we could soon have a globe scattering with Bernie’s broken dreams, whilst tracks like Imola, Algarve and Mangy-Cours, European tracks with a huge market for F1, fall into equal states of disrepair. Oh Bernie, what have you done…

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Egc!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Argentinian racer Onofre Marimon lost his life during practice for the German Grand Prix at the Nurburgring Nordschleife on this day in 1954. Marimon was in his second season with the Maserati factory team and had just scored his second podium finish in the British Grand Prix.

Image © Ferrari/Ercole Colombo

Author information

Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

Got a potential story, tip or enquiry? Find out more about RaceFans and contact us here.

124 comments on “Ferrari testing at Magny-Cours to improve correlation”

  1. “Vettel, the youngest triple world champion, has a different approach when it comes to talking up his chances. Quite simply, he doesn’t. He talks a lot about taking it race by race and if the points add up at the end and if he is in front, then he will be champion. He keeps all the information about fastest laps, qualifying, race results, but he never looks at the driver standings. He once told me that after he won his first championship in Abu Dhabi in 2010, he woke up on Monday morning and went on to the internet just make sure he had actually become champion!”

    That he doesn’t look the drivers standings might be true… but he surely knows who’s he battling, and how far they are… I mean, when you’re Vettel, you don’t need to check the standings table, the standings come to you ! I’m sure journalists repeat over and over how he just stretched his lead to 38 points over Kimi.

    That being said… it’s easy not to look at it into much detail when you’re in the strongest position to win a 4th consecutive championship. It’s not something Alonso or Hamilton can do…

    1. JP (@jonathanproc)
      31st July 2013, 1:39

      I don’t believe that drivers really need to know who their closest rival in the championship is. Surely their goal should be to finish in the highest possible position every race? If they are in the position where they are behind their closest rival on track then I don’t believe they should have a different mindset when trying to overtake.

      1. It’s just impossible not to look at the standings when you are fighting for a WDC whether you are leading it or not… I don’t believe Vettel had to look at the championship table on the Monday after he won the 2010 WDC to realize he won it…

        1. That’s just a thing people say to pretend being modest. “Ooooh, I can’t believe that I have won”.

    2. @fer-no65 Indeed.

      I don’t even believe he doesn’t look at standings. It’s virtually impossible, unless he doesn’t have a TV set, Internet service in any of his devices like smartphone, tablet or notebook.

      1. @jcost Why would that be impossible? I know plenty of people who do not read any Formula 1 related news, and they all have a smartphone, tv and computer. And why would he be bothered to read Formula 1 related news anyway?

        As for the championship standings, I do find it hard to believe he has no idea. Maybe he doesn’t look it up on the internet or something, but I’m sure it’s mentioned in interviews from time to time.

        1. Basically what the point means I think is that he doesn’t dwell on the standings and the gaps to his main competitors and all that frankly irrelevant detailing: the primary concern is what @jonathanproc has pointed out – achieve the best result possible on the day but don’t throw away good points.

          Sure he is probably reminded of his championship position and the gaps to other drivers in interviews but I doubt he takes much notice of them, as that only creates unnecessary pressure.

      2. @jcost I read this as not according much time to standings … Indeed he must see them but while he probably analyses deeply fastest laps and other data, the standing isn’t something you look for a very long time thus he probably consider “not looking” at them even if he sees them. That’s the way I see it anyway.
        One driver who spend to much time on that is probably Alonso, willing to cover other drivers while in strong position, we already saw it can be costly, so probably the right approach just to race, day by day and let’s see what happens at the end … worked for Vettel anyway.

  2. Marimon was in his second second with the Maserati factory team…

    That’s a really short career!

    1. @roald yeah, and in his first second he scored a his second podium !

  3. “It has been testing this week at Magny-Cours with a 2011 car to complete a programme to check its simulator and track correlation. The test is taking place on Pirelli’s demonstration tyres, and the team has completed the necessary approval process with the FIA for running the car.

    I’m glad this is a sort of “moral requirement” right now…

    1. How do the FIA determine it’s the 2011 car anyway? By looking at photos? What prevents Ferrari from bolting on newer parts or even using an entirely newer car with parts on there to pretend it’s the 2011 car, like a nose?

      1. @roland Lifing documents (which show the history of each part)

    2. demonstration tyres …….Necessary approval…FIA. Nudge,nudge, wink,wink.

    3. This shows how contorted the “two year old car” guideline is. So somehow its bad to run a 2013 car in one spec for 3 days, but its perfectly fine to run a 2011 car with new aero parts, provided you give the FIA a heads up?

      Why haven’t we seen McLaren, Mercedes, Red Bull and even Lotus on track yet (with Lotus, its possible they don’t have the money for it) if its perfectly normal?

      I would say it should be allowed to run such a car only provided you use parts that were of a specification already used in the season its from.

      1. If there really was a safe way to test new parts all the time on 2011 cars, Ferrari would have done this before. Seeing as they have the FIA’s permission, I don’t think Ferrari’s advantage will be too great.

        If it is, McLaren, Mercedes, Red Bull and the others have simply been asleep at the wheel. If Ferrari can find a way to test, so should the other teams. Don’t forget, Ferrari have windtunnel issues, so the other teams might even feel they don’t need to test, since their windtunnel gives information compatible with what happens on-track.

        1. If there really was a safe way to test new parts all the time on 2011 cars, Ferrari would have done this before

          How would we know about it? In the past there’s not been any need to inform the FIA of demonstration runs etc., that is a new bit that came about after the Mercedes testing.
          That there was never much talk about it, doesn’t mean it did not happen. And why would they test if not to try out a couple of new bits? This is not a tyre test, they use the demonstration tyres.

      2. Where did you get that they are running new aero parts? I’ve read that 3 times now and can’t see anywhere that says that. Surely running new parts when you are trying to sort out correlation issues is the worst thing you could do? It would be best to run a car you know everything about wouldn’t it?

        1. and unlikely to work on a 2013 car the same way as a 2011 car. i am sure the poster was alluding to the mercedes test, but this is totally different and legal.

          1. nope, Mercedes were most likely not running anything fancy – because Pirelli did the timetable – but Ferrari have already tested new parts in their Pirelli test too (they had 2 hours each day where they could determine the program themselves), and its naive to think they wouldn’t test new bits now.

        2. After Ferrari were caught testing their new EBD in 2010 on a filming day, the FIA mandated that any such filming days had to be conducted with only parts that had been raced. Therefore no new parts could be tested while “filming”.

          i believe that was how the FIA closed that loophole.

        3. That’s all very well if you believe it’s a correlation test. Call me a sceptic if you like but it may just be ‘called’ a correlation test with another agenda. This is F1 and you can’t always believe what you read can you, unless your very naive.

      3. For the last time, the purpose of the test is not to trial new parts, but to test the efficacy of the Ferrari simulator. They simply want to check the degree of “realism” of the simulator, which will then be used to simulate the new parts. That’s why they sent De La Rosa, the dedicated simulator development driver. If they wanted to try new parts they would have sent Massa or Alonso.

      4. but its perfectly fine to run a 2011 car with new aero parts

        [citation needed]

        1. why? @raceprouk

          We know that the FIA was fine with the Ferrari test for Pirelli, because it was with a 2011 car. At the same time, the timetables from that event pointed to a lot of room for Ferrari to run their own program part of the day (I think that was reported by either Bild/AMuS or Adam Cooper during the runup to the Mercedes tribunal, not sure which one it was), making it almost certain that they did run new parts.
          And in the article Keith did with Marc Priestley he mentioned that its dead certain that they would, as there is no limit to running say a new front wing on the old car.

          1. Could you provide links to those articles?

          2. I am pretty sure I would be able to to that, yes @raceprouk. Here’s the link to Keiths article with Marc Priestley.

            As for the other articles, there was a lot to read about the whole testing for Pirelli, including the FIA statements, and all comments on it. So while I could, I am not really into spending my time documenting all that back here now JCost, its not as if I bookmark them here on my PC to collect proof of what I read.
            If you followed the F1 news a month back yourself you would find a lot of these articles, many were in the F1F roundup, some weren’t. Google/Bing or whatever search engine you prefer will surely turn up a lot of them.

          3. Citation provided, myth confirmed. Certainly an interesting read ;)

    4. Being able to correlate your simulators where the other teams can’t is quite a boon. I think by making claims that they are using new parts, which there is no evidence for, you undermine the arguments of people like me who think Ferrari, like Mercedes is taking unfair advantage.

      1. Personally I have no sense that this Ferrari test is of any threat, while at the same time, with Ferrari having it’s own track, and in many ways and incidence a slightly different set of rules that they have always run by as F1’s ‘teachers pet’, I don’t think this test should be of any great surprise or shock, nor is suspiscious.

        I also think Mercedes ‘advantage’ continues to be overplayed and has been neutralized by their test ban during which everyone else gleaned far more useful data (including factual experimentation with new parts) than Merc at May’s tire test.

      2. I fail to understand your argument here @mike.

        Are you saying that because its likely that Ferrari did test some new parts (both now and almost certainly in the Pirelli test they did), suddenly you can not make the argument that they should have been before the tribunal too?
        As I mention in my post, the lack of definite do’s and don’ts during a run with an old car (its suddenly not called a test anymore) means its a hole in the testing ban, and it should be closed.

        1. Not quite, what I’m saying is, given this whole Mercedes saga where we have established that, getting extra time on the tyres is advantages and thus, unfair. Isn’t it a bit on the nose for Ferrari to be doing an almost identical thing? Yeah sure, it’s a three year old car, but the data would still be very relevant in terms of matching up real world and virtual results, along with the wind tunnel results of course.

          1. Yes, I think its completely unfair that you can test these things with an older car @mike, I think it goes against what was the target of a testing ban, because in effect it allows a team to test anyway, only with more trouble verifying it works on the new car too.

  4. Cotd, spot on again, looking on the bright side though, Bernie is creating some excellent facilities that other motorsport codes will get to use at bargain prices.

    1. As I said before, my fave thing about that race was its time. A race around 10 a.m…

      Bernie’s quest for new markets needs ironing. India is shaky, Turkey is gone, Korea and China are both shaky and Bahrain is what it is…

      BE, cut your pay and invite South Africa to stage a Formula One GP for God sake!

  5. I think this is Hamilton’s major problem:

    Lewis is emotional. Even in the interview with me on Sunday after the race he described his emotions this year as “a roller coaster” and said he wished he could “take something to level him off”! He talked openly about his family and personal life and dedicated his win to “the special person”. Like it or loathe it, he doesn’t shy away from his life, his relationships, his taste in music or God

    He allows his personal life to infringe too much into his work. He could do with being more of a heartless German!

    1. Easier said than done I’m afraid Max. Perhaps he should watch “Rush” and emulate Hunt, a broken heart needs distractions.

    2. JP (@jonathanproc)
      31st July 2013, 1:34

      @vettel1 I disagree that it’s a “major problem”. If his personal life is affecting his work so much then why did he win the race and take pole position? What you quoted also makes it clear that his comments were made after the race, so it’s not as if he’s crying about Nicole during the race!

      1. Yeah, instead of it being a big problem, it’s really just the way he rolls.

        1. it’s really just the way he rolls

          Couldn’t have better myself :)

          1. * put it


      2. jimscreechy (@)
        31st July 2013, 11:50

        Fair point

    3. I personally don’t see anything wrong with his way of life. Its funny, some F1 fans moan that the drivers ‘lack personality’ (whatever the hell that means) and then as soon as a driver gives some insight into his character he is criticised for being ‘unfocused’ or ‘easily distracted’.

      1. @ferrari_412t I couldn’t agree more. As the former driver Derek Warwick once said about Raikkonen, why should he just be someone you want him to be? Every driver has a personality. Hamilton does, Raikkonen does and di Resta does, too. Some fans can find their personalities boring or annoying but that’s the fans’ problem. I think we should just enjoy watching how all these different characters get along with each other and cope with the pressure.

        As for Hamilton, he is a particularly interesting character. And as long as he regulalry puts in scintillating qualifying laps and wins races the way he did at Hungaroring last Sunday, he can even date Roscoe and let the whole world know about it, I quite frankly don’t care.

        1. Amen!

      2. jimscreechy (@)
        31st July 2013, 11:51

        completely agree.

    4. Till now, Lewis’ s performances on track have nothing to be ashamed of! Some people live in the past, he’s matured as driver and person and a new team , Mercedes where he’s enjoying life. How many times does he have to prove them all he can always reinvent himself in F1?
      For his fans, he’s never let down in 2013. Good job so far, long may it continue.

    5. Yeah, he is human and that isn’t PR talk

    6. jimscreechy (@)
      31st July 2013, 12:06

      Lewis is emotional. Even in the interview with me on Sunday after the race he described his emotions this year as “a roller coaster” and said he wished he could “take something to level him off”! He talked openly about his family and personal life and dedicated his win to “the special person”. Like it or loathe it, he doesn’t shy away from his life, his relationships, his taste in music or God

      The more I think about this comment the more idiotic it seems. He’s stuck the car on pole the last three races, all but had another of the last three in his pocket till a tire blowout, and won the last race which he openly admitted he didn’t expect to, or have any chances of winning… but somehow his allowing his emotions to affect his driving are his problem? what utter nonsense. If he drives like this with emotional issues I hope he never has another successful relationship! I jest of course, but for a man who has lost the love of his life after five years I can’t fault his performance, rather the contrary. The overtaking moves level-headedness and skill he displayed in Hungary showed a comprehensive level of ability exceptional by all standards.

    7. Perhaps “major” is an exaggeration but what we have seen in the past (I direct you to pretty much the entire 2011 season) is Hamilton making lots of schoolboy errors, apparently in part caused by his state of mind. Thankfully he seems to be past that phase but I can’t help but think that it must alter his frame of mind significantly enough that it could have an effect on his driving in the way he makes a relatively big deal about it. I guess only time will tell but for Mercedes’ sake I hope that Hungary is a sign of him having matured as a person!

      @ferrari_412t I don’t wish to be classed under that umbrella as you have omitted to factor in that different fans admire different personalities: I personally like the more ‘friendly’ and happier drivers that don’t dwell on things and just get on with the job. That’s why I don’t warm to Alonso or Hamilton (whos whole “gangsta” image is severely misplaced IMO), or particularly Räikkönen either (which I’m sure will make me deeply unpopular with many)! I don’t ask drivers to change their personalities at all but that doesn’t mean I like their personalities and I don’t see a problem in voicing that.

      1. @vettel1 – Max, do you even know what a ‘gangsta’ life is? Lewis doesn’t drink, you have never seen him falling out of a night club at 5 in the morning, no drugs even rumors, is not a womanizer in fact 1 girlfriend for 6 years, never been caught up in a violent situation, no criminal record and he is not pimping out women. So tell us all, why do you say Lewis is a gangsta? Even Tiger woods doesn’t get this crap in the other white man’s sport in golf with his more checkered past.

        1. @blackmamba respectfully, what on earth are you taking about? I was arguing exactly the contrary, that despite the idea he has of being a budding rap artist with a low driving position in his ‘bling’ car he simply does not suit it. I will draw attention to the fact that it is him that upholds this image and I do not regard him to be a “gangsta”.

          Even Tiger woods doesn’t get this crap in the other white man’s sport

          I take that as an accusation of racism on my part and I find that deeply hilarious. I am strongly against racial discrimination or sexual discrimination which is why I am a strong advocate of diversifying the F1 grid – I am of the opinion that we cannot possibly have the best 22 drivers in the world in racing seats if there is a distinct lack of Asian, African and female drivers. With this newfound knowledge on your part, do you wish to renege on what I assume was a claim of discrimination?

      2. Hamilton is as far from being gangsta as Santa Claus is. Ofc, some form of ventilation is good but it’s too fabricated.

        1. @lari traditionally “gangsta’s” tend to be rather emotionless, covered in tattoos and very violent – Hamilton is neither of those things…

          1. @vettel1 Though he could he working on the tattoos part (while I don’t like tattoos in general, I find his to be particularly awful) :P

          2. @guilherme me neither, I only really like the traditional tribal Samoan tattoos but agreed Hamilton’s are particularly awful :P

          3. Pe’a I believe they are called ;)

      3. @vettel1 Don’t worry about that, you needn’t dislike Raikkonen to make yourself deeply unpopular with many ;-)

        I personally don’t mind your opinions by the way by the way, I just rarely agree :) but it’d be boring if we all had the same opinion, it makes for much more interesting discussions that way.

        1. @bananarama exactly, it’s good fun disagreeing over driver preferences! That of course isn’t to say that any one of us would want all the drivers to be the same, as it would be terribly dull and monotonous if every driver were like Hamilton or especially Räikkönen! Variety is the spice of life as they say ;)

          On Räikkönen, I was merely saying that because he seems to be the most popular driver of the moment so my opinion would naturally be going against the tide. I don’t dislike the guy in the same way I do Hamilton but I’ve never supported him and probably never will!

          1. Actually I was just trying to get the easy joke out of your post, which I think worked quite well.

            I personally really enjoy Raikkonen because I have to admit I’m often not much different and he gave us our last drivers championship which was really enjoyable. But I can enjoy a lot of different characters, I admire the dedication Alonso shows (and I can relate to the way he motivates himself, mostly by talking himself into believing he is the underdog and everyone is against him) and I think being aware of ones feelings is a good thing (which I’m bad at) and I think if Hami improves the way he deals with them that will make him even stronger (as a person and a professional). I don’t even really mind Vettel, but I already told you about my experience with him ;)

          2. @vettel1 By the way, if I may ask, where are you from? Not all keyboard languages have .. ehm .. Umlaute (ä,ö,ü).

          3. @bananarama I just find his moments of comedy genius are too few and far between! ;)

            I’m from Scotland actually, I just like using umlaut to be punctually correct! Predictive text does it for me due to frequent use now :)

  6. $729 Billion in 2003, you say? Then why is the bar so much smaller than 2011 at $1.5 billion or something, CNN? :p

    1. Apart from the missing decimal point, everybody should read that CNN article to see how much money the teams are missing out on, remember these figures are profits not total revenue, so don’t believe anybody who tries to tell you that FOM pays for things with the rest of the profit the teams do not get.

      1. @Hohum what missing decimal point, sorry it’s late here and I’m reading this so I’d just wanted more insight from you HoHum cause what you say is interesting to me. Also CNN tends to mess upd

        1. @magillagorilla, asBJ obliquely points out in 2003 FOM profits should have been listed as $729 Million or $.729Billion.

          1. @hohum Thanks, like I said I was tired that day.

  7. The “Speed” article on tyres (I know, what else) at least clears up one point for me, the teams do have to pay for the tyres. So, I say again, if Bernie and the FIA are really concerned about reducing the cost of competing in F1 they could return to tyres that last a whole race distance and reduce the number of compounds for dry races to 1 (2 max), less tyres, less transport costs, less pitcrew, less accomodation and travel costs. It works in MotoGP and most other motorsports, it used to work in F1 (before Bernie started meddling) and leaving aside grooved tyres (another Bernie handicap) used to produce excellent racing that rewarded passing on the track much more than the current tactical pit stop era does.

    1. As you say @hohum, it’s a very interesting article.
      The bit that really makes me swallow hard is that tomorrow is August and Pirelli do not seem yet to have a contract for next year. Moreover, the are interested in having a larger diameter tyre and width, whereas Michelin (their possible successors) want to introduce lower profile tyres – both of which will affect the design of the cars significantly.
      I wonder how much of the design work done so far by the teams will be compromised by changes to the final specification of the tyres?

  8. I think Ferrari running their 2011 car to gain a competitive advantage is against the spirit of the testing regulations. If the teams find ways of doing useful testing on older cars, then this will increase spending, and increase the advantage richer teams have over the poorer ones. Still, if the team’s president presented me with the gift of a knife, I wouldn’t be bothered with the spirit of the regulations either.

    1. Read the rule book, its been printed enough on that subject recently

      1. There is nothing in the rule book saying “you can test a 2 years and more older car with whatever parts you like” q85. Instead it explicitly forbids only running a car less than 2 years old and any car that “significantly complies with this years rules” which has been taken up to now/accepted by both the FIA and the teams, to mean that a 2 year old car is ok. But its not written in the rules at all.

    2. There is no such thing as “the spirit of the regulations”! I really dislike that term…the rules are written in black and white, if a team finds a loophole then so be it!

      1. Absolutely correct, I am also sick of hearing about the Spirit of the rules, there is no such thing!!

      2. Agreed completely – I’m certain that there is no appendix in the F1 technical regulations which requests that the competitors “be nice” and don’t exploit the rules for a comepetitive advantage; actually, the regulations are written deliberately to allow for some ambiguity in their interpretation to keep things interesting!

  9. I stumbled upon this Bild article saying that apparently Ferrari made an offer to Kimi on the thursday before the Hungarian GP, apparently offering more than Red Bull have done so far …

    Good trick, at the very least they will make Kimi more expensive for their competitors (either Red Bull or Lotus)! A lot of wheeling and dealing and having a go at your competitors behind the screens :-)

    1. Lucas Wilson (@full-throttle-f1)
      31st July 2013, 9:31

      Bild is usually correct.

    2. Wouldn’t it be a recipe for disaster if both Kimi and Fernando ended up under the same red roof?

      1. Maybe Domenicali and the others are trying to force Luca into retirement by hiring two drivers that care more about their own performances than the team?

    3. How about Kimi and Vettel at Ferrari, and Alonso and Ricciardo at Red Bull?
      Getting a bit ridiculous now, but the silly season is great and there’s nothing to do for 4 weeks $:)

    4. The silly season is in full swing.

    5. If Kimi is undecided about going to Red Bull, what would possibly motivate him to want to move to Ferrari? The fantastic car? The lack of politics? I can’t see him moving there for any amount of money.

      1. Maybe the motivation would be after a year they then pay him a vast sum of money to take a year off enabling him to go rallying?

      2. what would possibly motivate him to want to move to Ferrari? The fantastic car? The lack of politics?

        – that must be exactly what he will get from Ferrari @jonsan :-)

  10. I see the pro #f1 media are all posting the same tedious ******** about Alonso & red bull and speculating inanely using their “paddock sources” while polish bloggers discover merc’s secret about solving their tyre issues: (the picture will do you if you don’t want to Google translate).

    No doubt crotchety dinosaurs (not naming names, *cough*Blow Scabbard*cough*) will just scribble up another post about “amateurs” ruining f1 media while trying to decide which “source” to put the discovery down to….

    1. jimscreechy (@)
      31st July 2013, 12:49

      good post, interesting reading.

    2. The wheel design gets homologated at the start of the season though, doesn’t it?

      1. @patrickl I’ve had a look in Article 12 of the technical regulations which regards wheels and tyres and no it doesn’t appear that there is any rule which would imply that any mid-season changes are illegal. There’s only a load of rules regarding dimensions which I’m assuming the wheel design on the Mercedes has met.

        So it looks like they have the green light to use such a design! What I find fascinating though is that just two seasons ago Red Bull were rumoured to be using methods of heating up the tyres; now that is reversed!

        1. I remembered that Ferrari had some special things on their wheels (think some fins) and the story was that no one could copy that because the designs were fixed for the season. Much like the F-duct for McLaren. That was back in 2010 though.

          OK, so I looked it up. It was in Article 28 of the sporting regs (spare cars and homologation):

          Guess they subsequently removed that bit.

        2. This would seem to run afoul of the regs against moving aerodynamics parts, assuming that Charlie were to apply his past actions consistently (Ha ha)

          Red Bull had some sort of hollow axle, used to move air, banned on just those grounds.

    3. Clever idea, no doubt they can optimize wheel design for cold, warm, hot and very hot temps, then further optimize each temp style for the 4 different compounds, you have to admire the team for developing the car to suit the tyre, they deserve to win every race now.

      Lewis constantly moaning about not being able to run long stints at race pace no doubt kept the opposition from looking to closely at the car before the race.

    4. As far as I know, that Polish blog does have someone who does go to the races. They often are amongst the first with pictures from races and tests too. I started following them after Kubica’s accident, so far they have never reported anything that was plain wrong, and even when they speculate its based on something.

  11. With regards to the comment of the day, I hardly think Imola, Algarve or Magny-Cours are of any great loss to Formula 1. Imola has been castrated by a never-ending series of chicanes. Algarve was designed with Formula 1 in mind, but the GP2 races there were just plain boring. And Magny-Cours is in the middle of nowhere, and has produced some processional racing in the past. Every attempt to fix it has done nothing. So I think Formula 1 is better off without them. Far too many people put far too much stock in the idea if history or tradition, but if any of those circuits had been built outside Europe, people would be condemning them just as vehemently as they do the likes of Buddh and Korea and Yas Marina.

    I also think the criticisms of Buddh are a little unfair. Yes, the first-lap duel last year was the most exciting thing the circuit had produced, but bear in mind that the two races have been absolutely dominated by Sebastian Vettel. I don’t think anyone else had led so much as a lap there. With its October date, the Indian Grand Prix has fallen victim to Red Bull’s late-season push where they win everything and make the sport as a whole pretty boring.

    1. @prisoner-monkeys I have to agree that the races at Imola and Magny-Cours were rarely entertaining. The amount of passes was often close to zero. For instance, the 2002 San Marion Grand Prix at Imola was dubbed by Autosport as “one of the dullest races in recent years”.

      I think there are two main reasons why many fans still would love to see those circuits return to the calendar. Nostalgy is one of them. The second reason: I think these circuits have a unique character. They were built in a different era, using a different philosophy. If I remember correctly, @KeithCollantine has claimed that most ‘Tilkedromes’ have obviously been built, using the same formula.

      if any of those circuits had been built outside Europe, people would be condemning them just as vehemently as they do the likes of Buddh and Korea and Yas Marina.

      I don’t think it’s true. For example, Suzuka is one of the most popular circuits among the fans.

      1. They were built in a different era, using a different philosophy.

        They were built for cars which no longer exist. Whatever else can be said about them the “‘Tilkedromes” have been built with the performance of modern F1 cars in mind. Monaco, the Hungaroring, the current iteration of the Nürburgring … they are not well suited for racing current F1 cars. Take them out of Europe and drop them down in Argentina, Pakistan, and Myanmar and everyone would hate them.

        They’re fine tracks for lighter, narrower, less powerful cars though.

        1. Gotta diagree with you, for starts, you’re implying that the old Nürburgring is suited to modern F1 cars. Monaco has always been tight and twisty. With exception of some changes over the years, which has made it not entirely suicidal. Suzuka, Monza and Spa where also built for cars that no longer exist, so I think that’s a bad argument.

          There is no benefit in a new track being on the calender if it’s only good point is that it’s built with modern technology. Because that becomes very stale, very quickly.

    2. To be fair, I think most people, in this particular discussion, are pointing towards the fanbases in the respective countries of Imola and Magny-Cours. It’s true that the races there have been less than exciting, but with more fans, lower logistical costs and the possibility to put races closes together, there is a case to be made for those tracks.

      To be honest I’m surprised people were so enthusiastic about the Red Bull Ring returning, since the last 3 races there weren’t exactly spectacular either. But from a logistical and fan point of view, it makes a lot more sense than the Korean GP.

      F1 needs better entry-strategies in new countries. People aren’t going to warm up to F1 if it’s the only race to come around to their country, once a year. Bernie and the FIA need to drag along more series and the FIA (provided that they or an affiliate are present in such a country) could try to introduce karting championships or celebrity races with touring cars. Not just go ‘Oh, well, F1 is amazing, so they will flock to us!’.

      1. Lucas Wilson (@full-throttle-f1)
        31st July 2013, 10:37


    3. @prisoner-monkeys, that “nowhere” that Magny Cours is in the middle of is called France, Magny Cours is only 10 minutes S of Nevers and not much more N of Moulins and only 2H 30′ S of Paris on the RN7 and a similar time N of Lyon. Though not a great or even traditional track it is as good as the average Tilkedrome and in the middle of the country that gave us the “Grand Prix”.

  12. It´s great to see that most people are having an ok reaction to Ferrari´s testing. I thought most would have brought out the torches and pitch forks. But seriously, Ferrari is having a hard tima with the new tyres and really does need this if they wanna hunt RBR down. I hope it´s worth it!

    1. Its ********,

      No way a 2011 year car does not ““significantly complies with” 2012 or 2013 rules. Just bending over for Ferrari as usual..

      1. Nothing’s stopping the other teams doing sim correlation with 2011 cars, except the teams themselves.

    2. Everyone knows that regardless what Ferrari do, it still won’t put them ahead of RB, Merc or Lotus so why bother with torches?
      We can just lol at Ferrari at the end of the year and say “cheating doesn’t pay” unless Mercedes take both titles..

      1. The test is nothing to do with tyres, they are not even using race tyres.

        Its all about aero

        1. What was I thinking?! I must be delusional. F1 has nothing to do with aero.

          1. They are demo tyres. Nothing to gain on the tyre situation

            Its a test to get the wind tunnel to track correlation back correct. Should that be allowed, i dont know but its not a tyre test which is very clear.

      2. @crr917

        “cheating doesn’t pay”

        I strongly disagree. It´s obvious that for MERC it certainly has payed off. They have crawled out of their cave and have finally gotten the uperhand. Now it´s just going to be a 3 horse race… RBR, Lotus and of course.. MERC. And Merc definitely has the better driver in HAM.

        1. How has it paid off for Merc? The tyres they tested on are now redundant and they came to Hungary on the back foot without having tested the new tyres. The new tyres just suit them better and I for one am glad we have more durable tyres for F1’s sake. That business earlier where tyres could barely last 5 laps was frankly ridiculous. I am an F1 fan first and foremost and I feel we have been robbed of half the season trying to ‘manufacture’ excitement on jelly tyres when we could have had just as good racing on sensible tyres, like hungary.

          1. How has it paid off for Merc?

            … just look at the results.

        2. It’s Pirelli who has payed off to Merc for their adventures under the sheets.
          And Rosberg is not really slower than Hamilton just not a priority.
          Irrelevant though, as The Prince of Darkness is above all :)

  13. I don’t think it’s an unfair aspiration for Button to get a podium in Spa.

    It’s definitely a tall order, given how competitive the other cars are, and the win is 99% out of the question… But if there is any track that a podium is possible, then Spa would be one of the more likely ones for McLaren.

    1. Still, I am a bit surprised. He may have good reasons to be optimistic (after all he was unbeatable there last year), but a podium ?
      I’d be delighted if he did, though. Maybe he’s already doing rain-dances…

      1. He could possibly do a Michael Schumacher at Valencia 2012: Keep hold in fifth (which he has done before this year), and two of the front runners DNF due to crashing, or random failures etc.

        Failing the front runners’ bad luck, I can very easily see a fifth place at Spa.

        1. Failing the front runners’ bad luck, I can very easily see a fifth place at Spa.

          Even that is difficult with eight cars being faster than the McLaren probably.

    2. I don’t expect Red Bull to be as strong in Spa and Ferrari are seemingly just lacking pace all-round so perhaps a podium may be possible if fortune takes his path (i.e. another Grosjean special). Obviously the usual players will still be up there but a sprinkling of rain, misfortune on other’s parts or a well-executed strategy could place him in the top 5 for sure.

      I’ll wait until FP3 to make any sort of predictions though!

      1. @vettel1 That’s why I like so much Spa: unpredictability!

        (and maybe as a belgian too :))

  14. There was more than just the 1st lap battle between Button/Lewis/Alonso that was exciting about last year’s Indian Gp.

    There was a lot of good racing through the field & a fair level of overtaking, Some of which is shown in this video.

    guess the people who found it boring didn’t watch all the race or simply don’t like any race won by vettel?

    1. to include overtaking stats.

      2011- 27
      2012- 31

  15. Funny hearing Max Chilton describe himself as an F1 driver.

  16. As Brierty admitted in a part of his comment which was conveniently left out here, his biggest gripe with the Indian GP is that Vettel dominated there both times it has been held. Imola, Algarve and Mangy-Cours are not/were not great tracks. Can we let go of the conceit that simply being situated in Europe somehow makes a circuit much better than it actually is?

  17. It’s hard to figure out Ferrari’s casual course with James Allison given their unresolved problems with the current car. Appears that it took 10 weeks (!) to do the contract with him and then he’s not on board until Sept. 1. The contract should have been complete in 2 weeks with Allison starting work at Ferrari June 15, there 2.5 months of input to the 2013 car that certainly would have helped in Hungry and moreso Spa. Now they’ve got a mess in many places to fix.

    1. Immigration, work visas and mutual contract termination notices probably had a lot to do with it ;)

    2. Lets not forget that ALL people in F1 have this clause where they have to take gardening leave before they can work at another team. I understood that even to make Allison start first of September, Ferrari will have had to pay a considerable amount to Lotus to have them agree on shortening it @chi-tom.

      And then its rumoured that Allison was talking to Ferrari, but also was considering other options, with joining the Honda Program and designing a testing car to be used next year rumored to have been his preferred option (but Honda decided against rocking the boat too much by testing the engine next year).

  18. haha! just found why Monaco is still on the F1 calendar: it’s free!
    Free, legendary past, what else?

Comments are closed.