Felipe Massa, Ferrari, Korea International Circuit, 2013

“Impossible” to beat Red Bull now – Domenicali

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Felipe Massa, Ferrari, Korea International Circuit, 2013In the round-up: Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali concedes it is unrealistic to expect they can beat Red Bull now.


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Ferrari concede defeat to Sebastian Vettel and Red Bull after Stefano Domenicali congratulates the German as he closes in on a fourth world championship (The Independent)

“We need to be realistic. We know it is almost impossible to win the title, so congratulations to him (Vettel) and to what they (Red Bull) are doing because at the end of the day if they have that (the title) they deserve that.”

Alonso: Ferrari’s position a miracle (Autosport)

“We did a miracle for 15 races and we try to keep this miracle alive for the remaining five.”

No reining in the bulls (Sky)

“‘These super-softs won’t even do a lap around here before overheating,’ complained Alonso to Pirelli’s Paul Hembery early in the Korea weekend. Hembery countered that he agreed: they wouldn’t. But he then asked the Ferrari driver if he knew who had asked that Pirelli bring the super-soft as the option tyre rather than the soft. Fernando did not. ‘Your boss,’ Hembery was able to inform him.”

2014 engines could create rifts (ESPN)

“I think one of the concerns for the sport is that it becomes a powertrain race. We are mindful of the fact that we currently have three and will shortly have four auto manufacturers. If one of those manufacturers doesn’t do a good enough job at the start of next year, and doesn’t have the scope by which they can become competitive, then there’s a pretty good chance they won’t be in Formula One for very long, which wouldn’t be good for the sport.”

Kevin Magnussen, McLaren, Bahrain, 2013McLaren hope to find Magnussen a seat in F1 (Reuters)

“McLaren have had talks with Lotus, Force India and Marussia about giving an opportunity to Magnussen next season.”

Money… (Joe Saward)

“Over the term of the deal that has just been agreed with Formula One, the FIA will get around $375 million [??233.9m]. If there was no middle man and a structure similar to that of the IOC the FIA would be getting $1.6 billion [??990m], based on current earnings ?ǣ without any growth.”

Keeping the Samurai spirit (Ferrari)

Felipe Massa: “Even on Thursday when there is no track action, the fans are there in the grandstands opposite the pits, whether it is dry or raining. That?s the most incredible thing about racing in Japan, looking at the excitement and the love the fans have for Formula One.”

Taki Inoue – Fast Talk (Red Bull)

“I only did 18 starts and couldn?t get a point and in qualifying I was always massively off the pace from my team-mate, around two to five seconds. I never overtook any cars during my F1 career. I believe definitely I am one of the worst Formula One drivers ever.”

Off track – Taki’s take on the 2013 Korean Grand Prix (Lotus)

“When I raced the Grand Prix I thought I knew Suzuka well from Formula Three, but in Formula One everything was different. The car was so fast that the track felt completely different! So my first impression – driving the Simtek in 1994 – was like the first time I ever drove the circuit. Also, the Simtek didn?t have the paddle shift; I still had the stick, it was so difficult!”


Comment of the day

Will F1 drivers have heads-up displays in the future?

Seeing Hamilton playing around with Google Glass, it?s hard not to wonder how long it is before we see drivers using such technology to overlay vital information through their helmet visors.

It can?t be too difficult even with current hardware to create a visor that offers the drivers a view similar to ones viewers see whenever the TV director switches to infra-red cam.

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Toby!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Julian Bailey turns 52 today. He sold his share of a pub to pay for his first F1 season at Tyrrell in 1988 – unfortunately the 017 chassis was a disaster.

After losing his F1 seat he drove for Nissan’s Sports Car team before making a brief return to grand prix racing in 1991. A four-race stint as Mika Hakkinen’s team mate at Lotus included a single point for sixth at Imola, before he was replaced by Johnny Herbert.

He later drove for Toyota in the British Touring Car Championship and famously knocked team mate Will Hoy onto his roof during the British Grand Prix support race in 1993:

Images ?? Ferrari/Ercole Colombo, McLaren/Hoch Zwei

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  • 103 comments on ““Impossible” to beat Red Bull now – Domenicali”

    1. Bianchi/Magnussen would be a great combo at Marussia.

      1. Chris (@tophercheese21)
        9th October 2013, 1:39

        I think Daddy Chilton will have something to say about that.

        1. yes, but will he have more to clink than McLaren?

        2. @tophercheeese21 maybe his big bro and dad can get him a seat in BTCC where he belongs.

          1. @tophercheese

    2. “A wet Japan”
      Will it be wet in the weekend too?

      1. 60% rain on Friday
        Dry on Sat/Sun

      2. maarten.f1 (@)
        9th October 2013, 6:07

        @hunocsi Impossible to say. Weather predictions more than a day away are just terrible, it can change day by day. Even on a Friday they can be completely wrong about Sunday.

    3. I hate these teambosses just surrendering to Red Bull. Don’t they have some self-respect? Or respect for the history of their teams? Enzo Ferrari wouldn’t just have given up by now. I’m sure he’d be trying his best to beat them, and if you can’t snatch the title from them, at least snatch a race from them.
      I just hate when F1 teams and drivers give up his efforts in such an easy way. I’m not saying it’s not convenient to start developing next year’s car, but keep working hard to at least win a race, get some results or just do your best.

      1. It’s over.

        The team bosses have likelt put all their R&D resources towards the 2014 cars, trying to get an early jump on everyone else with the new rules. So they concede because they realise that without the 2013 cars getting major updates the season in any of the next 5 races we will be left with the same running order as the last couple of races (ie making it impossible to catch RedBull Racing).

        1. That’s always what the say EVERY year. Le sigh.

      2. @carlitox

        I’m sure he’d be trying his best to beat them, and if you can’t snatch the title from them, at least snatch a race from them.
        I just hate when F1 teams and drivers give up his efforts in such an easy way.

        That sounds beautifull and all, but it’s not smart. And F1 is, above all, an engineering competition, where what’s smart rules above all.

        What does anyone in Ferrari win if they “snatch a race”, but jeopardize next year’s championships? Besides, they haven’t “given up that easily”, they fought until it makes no sense to.

        We’re all passionate about this sport and would love to see everybody fighting until the very end, but this is real life, so we have to be realistic.

      3. Would you rather Red Bull spend the next couple of months developing a new car while their rivals try and improve their current, soon-to-be-outdated models? I’d rather see a real battle next year than over the last few races, which may prove good regardless of how many improvements teams try to make anyway.

        1. There’ll no real battle next year, one team will dominate the rest, that’s all …

      4. They would be stupid not to admit Red Bull has got it wrapped. It has nothing to do with self-respect.

      5. @carlitox – That’s why Stefano used the word “Realistically”.

      6. Well, you can’t bang your head against the wall.

      7. @carlitox

        I just hate when F1 teams and drivers give up his efforts in such an easy way.

        I don’t see where SD is saying they give up. Far from it. He is just saying that the math is not in their favour while at the same time saying that the level RBR is at is something they need to strive for, and that if somehow SV has a problem in the next race then that might put them closer and then they’ll see…but realistically it’s not looking good for them this season. I don’t see a thing wrong with anything SD is saying. Also, I’m sure it is not ‘easy,’ as you are suggesting, for them to accept that they simply haven’t done as good a job as RBR and therefore have not been able to properly compete against them.

      8. Red Bull win be developing the 2014 car because of their advantage. So conceding defeat does nothing.

      9. This is the same Enzo Ferrari who was in charge when, in 1980, his team effectively wrote off the whole of that season as they couldn’t develop the obsolescent 312T5 and 126CK (which was under development for the 1981 season) simultaneously. Enzo might have been a proud man, but even he accepted that there were times when the team was facing a lost cause and when it was better to look to the future rather than waste resources on the present…

    4. Can anyone, after reading the article “reining in the Bulls” not see how wrong this farcical tyre gimmick is. Let’s please get away from this artificial lottery of racing to exact lap times and avoiding attacking and passing the car in front, in the hope, that’s right “hope”, that it will result in the optimal tyre wear to win the race. People say that without different tyre strategies and pit-stops we will processional “Trulli train” races, despite statistics to the contrary, despite the fact that we see these tyre management processions every race and despite the fantastic racing we get when a late safety car leaves everybody (almost) on the same strategy and tyres without the viable option of pitting for new tyres, without the option of changing tyres everybody has just 1 aim, pass the car in front, that’s good racing, thats how F1 racing should be, thats how F1 racing will be if we take tyre wear out of the equation.

      1. …we will HAVE processional

      2. Just to get it out of the way (we all knew it was coming): This presents a new idea for Ecclestone: let Springsteen decide what tyres people have to use. You can thank me later.

        1. “The Boss” ?, why not Beyonce ?

          1. Maybe Drake would do a better job :)

            1. Or lets invite Chris Brown, maybe someone who could beat Vettel at last. Or ask Nicole Scherzinger .. no pun, just .. like that.

      3. Hahaha … always love to hear that line: “Trulli train”…

      4. To me the biggest problem here, is that teams are lobbying, and are successfull at it, for certain tyres to be used at certain tracks @hohum.

        Apart from that – it seems teams are always going to try and go a tad further than thought possible to try and get an advantage. That means watching the tyres. We saw Alonso do the opposite once this year and it worked. A real shame no one tries that one more often.

        But even if the tyres would last almost the whole race, we would still hear teams asking their drivers to save the engine, kers, suspension, and whatever. Currently its the tyres, but the real problem is that teams have so much information available so they tend to manage according to data instead of leaving the drivers to feel what the car does and race according to that. I can’t see any easy fix for that though.

        1. You could ban pit-to-car radios and let teams rely only on pit boards for communication.

          I think one of the major contributors to this moaning about tyres is that we are able to hear the teams instructing drivers to conserve this or that. As you say, F1 has always been about preserving your car. We just hear about it more frequently now.

          1. Not sure banning the radio would work, but I agree that the biggest change compared to the past is, that the fans actually get to hear about it nowadays @red-andy.

          2. If I was FOM, I would not play out these messages of driving to delta or managing tyres. Most people would then not realise what was going on and be happy with the racing. (Note to FOM: I of course prefer the current, more honest way team radio is dealt with.)

        2. @bascb, yes that is another unsatisfactory aspect of these tyres, I believe that as a product from an outside supplier the tyres should be neutral in the way they perform from car to car and the only way to do that is to build in durability and a wide operating range. As for the other aspects teams wont gain 20-30 seconds over the opposition by nursing the car as they do by nursing the tyres and saving a pit-stop, the car has to be built to be able to race, can you imagine what Fernando would be saying if he was constantly being told to slow down to save the car?

          1. He isn’t being told so, because he can do it fine all by himself.

          2. I wonder how many more messages there are either in Italian, unbroadcastable, or being saved for the season review DVD…

            The fact remains, they turned up at the race with unsuitable tyres. Mr Hembery can have his cheap shot at Alonso if he likes, but that shouldn’t be happening.

            1. maarten.f1 (@)
              9th October 2013, 9:22

              @tomsk I believe the radio transcript that @keithcollantine provides us with is pretty much all that’s been broadcasted on the pit lane channel. Or is it possible still more will be added to the season review/race edits?

            2. @maarten-f1 @tomsk The radio transcript (which should be up today or tomorrow) includes all the messages from the pit lane feed and the main feed.

              There are occasional extra messages in FOM’s online highlights videos and the end-of-season review. For example:

              New team radio reveals Vettel’s penalty protests

    5. I’d quite like to see Magnussen get a race seat next year!

      1. Me, too, but I’m not sure if there is a place for him. The Chiltons have a stake in Marussia, so Max is likely to stay. Massa and Hulkenberg have been tipped as the front-runners for the Lotus seat, and Force India are staying with Mercedes, so McLaren might lose him after a year.

        The best way forward would probably be to get Lotus to switch to Honda power and place Magnussen there.

        1. @prisoner-monkeys Can’t they give him a test driver seat at McLaren?

          1. @noob – They could, but based on the article, it appears McLaren want Magnussen racing.

          2. They’d never run him, putting him a year of action.

        2. I guess it depends on how much McLaren are willing to give a price cut on the simulator use for Marussia or on the backpayments for FI @prisoner-monkeys

          1. @bascb – I still think a better way forward would be to get Magnussen a place at Lotus. It might help get a second team for Honda, and could work out very well if Lotus take Hulkenberg. I’m not sure where that leaves Grosjean, though.

            1. But I doubt Lotus is going to take their money, unless its going to be a 20-30 million bag of it.

      2. Where though?

        1. Force India seem his most likely destination if he is to get a seat. McLaren might negotiate with Force India about extending their technical partnership to have him there.

    6. Taki Inoue has to be one of the most entertaining people on Twitter!

      1. F1 comedian

      2. Yep. Does anyone else think that Sky F1 should run a Comedy F1 show with Taki and Gehard Berger? :-)

      3. Every time I see his tweets or interviews it makes me think of Mr. Chow.

      4. His interview is epic :D

    7. Now Martin Whitmarsh wants ” a level playing field “…” for the good of the sport”, so lets just get Dallara to build the chassis and Hart to supply the engine, the teams can supply the colour scheme, imagine the savings, imagine the excitement……………sorry just dropped off for a few moments.

      1. Ha, wonder if he would say that if McLaren was winning races and titles.

        1. Sure he wouldn’t. But in fairness, I think even Seb wants a level playing field.

    8. Ferrari runner-up for the 3rd time in 4 years, it warms my heart…

      1. Have a thought for the die-hard Williams and McLaren fans.

      2. Chris (@tophercheese21)
        9th October 2013, 1:40

        Mercedes can still beat them.

        1. @tophercheese21 I think @kingshark was talking about the WDC.

      3. I feel your pain…..

      4. @kingshark

        I try to see it as 3 time champions…. if you exclude RBR and that “flying saucer” they would be 3 time champions…

    9. But he then asked the Ferrari driver if he knew who had asked that Pirelli bring the super-soft as the option tyre rather than the soft. Fernando did not. “Your boss,” Hembery was able to inform him.

      Eh? I thought Pirelli worked for Red Bull?

      Sarcasm aside, this shows how much of a joke everything about the tyres is.

      The rules are stupid, and compounds are stupid, the testing restrictions are stupid, the races are stupid, the politics behind the scenes are stupid, it’s incredible.

      1. @silence it looks like Pirelli was aorking against them. But it turns out that everyone except RBR & Lotus were producing Lemons.

      2. David not Coulthard (@)
        9th October 2013, 6:18

        Weren’t it the fans who asked for tyres that weren’t as hard as bridgestones?

        1. maarten.f1 (@)
          9th October 2013, 9:35

          I always wonder about that, “the fans”? I don’t remember ever filling out a questionnaire. I would be interesting to see a poll here what people want see.

          1. For sure no-one ever asked me and I don’t remember ever being asked about any of the changes Bernie has introduced over the decades and I don’t ever recall being asked before Bernie reversed his previous decisions, which gives me hope that if I wait long enough Bernie will go back on this fiasco as well.

    10. Well said Joe Saward, I would like to say ” better late than never” but I might be doing Joe an injustice, he may have been saying this for years before I started following him via F1Fanatic.

      1. It is a good article.

        We can speculate as much as we like, but I think transparency of the Alpha and Delta Topco accounts would answer any questions. For all we know, Mosley could be receiving a “consultancy fee” for his “services” on an annual basis. You don’t try and hide something if you have nothing to hide.

        F1 teams need to get in the mindset of life without Bernie, not life after Bernie.

        1. But that’s not going to do them any good, because Bernie clearly isn’t going anywhere and he holds so much power that he is impossible to ignore.

          1. Yes I understand that and I agree with you 100%. I just think it is wrong.

            The people come to see the racing, people at home want to see the racing – I just think it is well and truly eff’d that those that provide the racing get such disproportionate share of the revenue given they are the purpose of this sports existence.

            This whole period of negotiations of the Concorde agreement was a perfect opportunity for the teams to grab Bernie by the balls, but for this to occur a united front from the teams would need to occur. I just simply don’t get how dumb some team principles are in this respect to not make it a reality for the sake of egos, emotions and personal gains. The sport has lost touch with the common man and its integrity has disappeared up its own backside.

            I understand Bernies importance, presence and power within Formula 1, but anyone is replaceable – even him. Heck, even the worlds most powerful man has to be elected every 4 years. Given that, I just don’t understand why the threat of a breakaway series never came about during this period. Sure, people highlight the importance of Ferrari, but even without them common sense would prevail. Head to head what would win the global audience – a new F1 type series without Ferrari racing around a track like Adelaide or a F1 series with Ferrari thrashing the pants of Manor, Arden and Stefan GP in Bahrain?

            Call me a little bit crazy, but I view F1 is a big juicy orange. While the teams sit on one side of it licking the skin of the orange Bernie is on the other side with a straw drilled to the centre of the orange. Its about time someone grew some balls and sunk their teeth in.

            Short term sacrifice, long term gain.

            1. Please. There is no “chance to grab Bernie by the balls”. The teams know the current structure works for them, and there is no reason for them to try and drive Bernie out of his position. They actually get along really well with him.

            2. @hamish, why can so few of see it, surely the captive simians pro-Bernie propaganda can’t be so persuasive?

      2. I’m not sure it would be good to give the FIA much more money? I also don’t think that the IOC should be used as a comparison – in contrast, it is often seen as a corrupt organisation where individuals are mostly interested in their own posts.

        Sure CVC are getting too much as well, but handing it to the FIA might not be much better.

    11. Bianchi is signed and Chilton isnt going anywhere, plus Marussia could always go bankrupt before next season even starts. Lotus seems to be looking for a long term driver, not someone who’ll abandon the boat as soon as a seat opens up at McLaren. FI is the most realistic situation, both their drivers are unimpressive (I have a hard time choosing which one is worse).

      1. Yep, that’s what I thought at first, Force India use Mclaren gearboxes, wind tunnel and simulator right? It makes sense to put him there, in an ideal world it would be Calado/Magnussen for 2014 although I suspect Vijay would like to keep one of the current drivers for consistency.

        1. @mantresx Inconsistency, thy name is the current Force India pair.

        2. @mantresx Who is better, Colado or Magnussen?

          1. @noob To be honest I don’t know because I don’t follow WSR/GP2 that much, obviously Kevin is fighting for the title so he must be pretty good and I remember James impressed in his rookie season almost beating his team mate Gutiérrez for third place overall.

            But I’m sure there’s someone else who knows more than me and can tell us which deserves an F1 seat more than the other.

        3. The problem is that if Force India stay with Mercedes, McLaren could lose Magnussen. We’ve seen how easily the manouveured Perez away from Ferrari, so it wouldn’t be difficult for a team like Mercedes to steal Magnussen away. McLaren might want Magnussen in Formula 1, but they will want him in on their terms – after all, they’re the ones who have supported his career.

    12. The Sky port article is really eye opener.

      MY only Question Does “Your Boss” means Eccolstone or Montzemolo ? In any case asking Pirelli to bring in soft Tires to undo Vettel and eventually falling prey to it is really amazing. Now I must say that Vettel did a phenomenal job on Sunday making it look more easy that it really was.

      The concluding statement from Skysports sums it all

      If blame was being apportioned for the tyre issue in Korea, a big chunk of it should go to those teams trying to use Pirelli to rein in Red Bull artificially, unable to beat them by building a faster car.

      1. I assume that “your boss” would be di Montezemolo or Domenicalli.

      2. maarten.f1 (@)
        9th October 2013, 6:15

        I don’t really agree with that last statement. It’s just the way the game works. At the beginning of the season we had Red Bull complain left and right about the tyres. They eventually changed, Red Bull profited (whether from just the tyre change or other things as well, impossible to say) and now you don’t hear them anymore.

        Teams will use every excuse in the rule book to reign in rival teams, it’s always been done. Whether it’s tyres, front wing, diffuser, etc.

    13. “FOTA chairman and McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh has urged Formula One bosses to put the good of the sport ahead of their team’s interests in 2014 and work together in the new turbo era to ensure a reasonably level playing field for engine performance.”

      It is called “motorsport” for a reason Martin. I for one will be glad if there is a noticeable difference between the engines next season, because variety, whether in strategies or car characteristics, leads to interesting races for the viewers.

      1. The only part of it that makes sense (would make sense) is to allow the ones that did a worse job to catch up a bit after the first season, so that if there is one manufacturer who has done a really great job and runs away with it on all fronts that won’t carry over until 2020 @geemac.

        But since the differences between the engines aren’t all that big, because the regulations are quite tight anyway, I don’t think its going to be any enormous differences. And most of the differences we will see will be in engine mapping, gear ratios and things like that anyway.

        1. @bascb, dont forget the ERS which is where I can see big winners and losers possible.

          1. @hohum, yes I guess the whole ERS is the part where clever use of it can give huge advantages through making it work like RBR and Renault are doing right now, and potentially its also going to be the part that will give some teams most reliability issues.

            That said, about a month ago, I read that Ferrari was having trouble getting their engine down to fuel consumption for the whole race while Renault and MErcedes were struggling with reliability. I think reliability could be the deal breaker really.

    14. without a middle man, i doubt FIA could have gotten that amount of money based on current earnings.

    15. David not Coulthard (@)
      9th October 2013, 6:05

      On the Taki Inoue video ( http://www.youtube(dot)com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nzqZV9V4R-s ) Back in the day the car with >1 seat knew enough to drive on the grass, outside the track. Things seem to have gone backwards now. http://www.auto123.com/ArtImages/160529/f1-korea-fire-truck-safety-inline.jpg

      1. David not Coulthard (@)
        9th October 2013, 6:06

        The 1st link, by the way, is supposed to be http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nzqZV9V4R-s

    16. I seem to remember Alonso saying at the start of the season that this year’s car is 200% better than last year’s car. Now he is saying that it is a miracle that they are still statistically in contention.

      1. Do you remember the start of last season? The Ferrari looked like an absolute handful.

      2. @cynical

        Haha. I also remember same thing said by alonso at the start of this season :D
        But I’m sure some of the alonso’s fan will still find a way to suggest that whatever alonso is saying is 100% true. :P

        1. @cynical @mjf1fan What Alonso said was that the start of the season was way better than the previous one. Also, words do not always hold their value for a given period. It is all a moving world, as is F1.

          1. What alonso also sugested was that through out this season whatever result Ferrari achieved is miracle which is obviously not true.

            Ferrari were quite competitive up until Silverstone and the podiums at Spa and Monza were not by any miracles. Alonso failed to qualify at higher grid slots in both those races. He had the pace in the car if he would have qualified higher.

            Strange the way people look at things. If Seb achieves something then its all down to car and if Alonso achieves something , its all because of him or some miracle.

            1. He had the pace in car to challenge Seb*

      3. Maybe the car was a lot better at the start compared to how good (bad) it was at the start of last year, but the team never found much scope to improve it during the year.

      4. David not Coulthard (@)
        9th October 2013, 9:57

        Maybe the RB9 was 200.0000001% (or more) better than the RB8?

    17. Sorry to get pedantic, but he says “almost impossible” which is true. They haven’t given up just yet, as the title suggests.

      In the words of Jim Carey in Dumb and Dumber, “…1 million to 1….so there’s still a chance!!”

      1. Got your Lotto ticket?

    18. Yeah sure Alonso your car was not on rails early doors, eh? He loves giving himself credit theses Samurai Twets are hilarious, just say you think your the best Fernando come on we know you think that. I think he is scared he will be a 2x WC, i mean 2007 must hurt alot when he had a great car and coulnt beat the rookie. We would be looking at an all time great but 2WC, no not for me. Show your diverse and win another 1 i suppose he would qualify.

      1. David not Coulthard (@)
        9th October 2013, 10:02

        We would be looking at an all time great but 2WC, no not for me

        …..what about Villeneuve (the one who was Enzo Ferrari’s employee) and Sitrling Moss, then?
        And Clark, Peterson, Cevert, Hakkinen, Rindt, Ascari, and perhaps Kimi?

        I do see your point, though, don’t worry :)

        1. @danclapp

          If I seem to remember, in 2007 Renault were a shadow of their former glory :-). Alonso, probably more than most deserves another one, it was so disappointing to see him come so close in 2010 and 2012.

          1. @full-throttle-f1
            Yes they were, but Alonso was driving for McLaren in 2007 ;)

            1. Lol I forgot, embarrassing!

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