Lotus apologises for Raikkonen radio messages

2013 Indian Grand Prix

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Lotus say a heated radio exchange involving Kimi Raikkonen during yesterday’s race was “not appropriate” and apologised for it.

In the latter part of the race Raikkonen’s pace had slowed due to tyre wear. He fell to third place and was being caught by team mate Grosjean, who in turn was under pressure from Felipe Massa’s Ferrari.

Grosjean caught Raikkonen on the straight leading to turn four. But Raikkonen moved to cover the inside of the corner, then forced his team mate off the track.

A censored radio message from Lotus’s trackside operations director Alan Permane to Raikkonen was played during the race broadcast ordering him to “get out of the ******* way”. Raikkonen swore back at his team and told them not to talk to him while he was cornering.

Lotus team principal Eric Boullier said: “Romain was two seconds per lap faster than Kimi at that time, so it was not even a team order.”

“By asking Kimi to let Romain pass, we just made the obvious choice, as Massa could have stolen our podium.

“With hindsight, this radio message could have been sent in a less emotional way. There was a lot of tension, a lot of potential technical problems, and some of the words that flew around were simply not appropriate.

“I know that quite a few people were surprised and I can only apologise for that on behalf of the team. It won’t happen again.”

2013 Indian Grand Prix

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Image © Lotus/LAT

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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187 comments on “Lotus apologises for Raikkonen radio messages”

  1. I wonder why they didn;t pit Kimi immediately after watching him lapping 2 seconds slower.

    Its like watching Kimi hang to death but couldn;t careless about his rescue.

    Kimi might be extremely **** off with so many issues in 1 race.

    No rear brake, low on fuel, 6.7 seconds pit stop that further hamper him. Its not the first time kimi has had brake issues.

    1. have in mind one thing. For every point Kimi ads, lotus has to pay him euros 40.000. Now you have the answer.

      1. Have in mind that for every point Kimi win, Lotus is getting around 150,000 Euros, so they still earn a nice amount of money.

        1. thanks for the data. And if Romain wins lotus pays euros 0 to him for each point.

      2. Some say that Lotus gets more money per point than they have to pay him, therefore they don’t believe in those sabotage theories.

    2. thats exacltly what everybody think
      even if kimi stand still don’t wanna pit, they shoul forced him to pitt, because they the one who knew the mathematically that kimi will overtaken by the rest 6 driver until end, and kimi don. even me and the comentator knew he dont make it after saw nico 2 secong faster

      i see more bad strategies for kimi this year instead the brilliant strategies

    3. Yeah, I was already begging Lotus to pit Kimi on after lap 45, because it was obvious that he won’t make it or he will drop outside top 10, so pitting him at least on lap 45 was the correct time and with fresher tyres he might have charged through the field.

      1. to Osvaldas31 Thanks:-) Don’t have to put same commentaries.

      2. I totally agree – they should have pitted Kimi around lap 45,
        assuming they had a set of soft tyres available that would last to the end.

  2. So, Lotus is give up to the Kimi bullies?
    I don´t know what is the problem?… Kimi certanly has answered way worst.
    It was a fuel adreanline momento, no need to made a storm in a cup of tea…

    1. @celeste I agree, I see no need for an apology here. When Raikkonen has a go at them, they put it on a T-shirt. When they have a go at him, they come out with this.

      The way I see it, it was in the heat of the moment and the FOM censor made sure we didn’t hear any naughty words. There’s no problem here.

      I expect there was rather more to the radio exchange than what was played. I don’t believe the first thing Raikkonen was told about Grosjean coming up behind him was a message telling him to “get out of the ******* way”.

      1. Kimi ‘s TR at abu dhabi was about the matter in hand. And with his monotone, he try to make his voice clearer by yelling. If you hear Kimi’s TR, he always sounds like yelling.

        Permane’s TR was directly abusive to Kimi personally with vulgar word on it.

        Two different stuff.

        1. Permane’s TR was directly abusive to Kimi personally with vulgar word on it.

          No it wasn’t. He told Raikkonen to get out of the way and punctuated it with an obscenity. It was an expression of frustration. And how was it not “about the matter in hand”? Of course it was.

          The hypocrisy around this is staggering. Raikkonen swore on live television in 2006 and some people have practically deified him for it. And that was just a puerile remark for a laugh – at least Permane was doing his job.

          Grosjean’s race engineer used a swear word when speaking to him during qualifying which went uncensored. I don’t see anyone up in arms about this. Let’s not be so naive to pretend language like this isn’t used all the time in professional sport, especially when emotions are running high.

          The only “abusive” messages in this are those which have come from Raikkonen fans:


          1. Couldn’t agree more

          2. Agree with every word…Some Kimi´s fans are over reacting

          3. Why is anyone pretending swearing on the radio is newsworthy at all? Haven’t we known that apart from “under duress” use, teams have deliberately used swearing to prevent important messages getting re-broadcast in the past?

            Deeply ******* stupid.

          4. @keithcollantine Yeah it wasn’t great. Permane is a team director so he should really show a bit of restraint there. It is understandable that they were under great pressure from Massa, but if you can avoid the use of obscenities, then its better to do so. Besides it was a slightly aggressive use of the f word too. And the same should apply to Kimi too.
            Don’t get me wrong, I really enjoy funny radio messages, or frustrated one’s, it shows the human side of F1. I don’t mind the f word as long its not used in a aggressive manner, but I don’t think this was the case.

          5. It isn’t about the swearing, that doesn’t matter. It is about a senior team member screaming at an employee in public. You just dont do it.

            Or does your own boss scream and swear at you in public or in front of customers?

            Permane is suppose to keep a cool head as the team strategst and as a senior member in the team. Have we ever seen Massa or Webber being spoken to like this? Kimi was the one with the adrenalin driving in the actual race. Worse if it wasn’t for Permane’s terrible strategy Kimi wouldn’t have been there in the first place.

          6. F1 fans acting like football fans … again …

            I think Permane did the right job, no need to apologise.

          7. It might be helpful to look beyond the cuss words, and the “Kimi bullies”. Permane’s error was to become too emotional in a key situation. For an engineer of his experience and position to commit such a primary error was surprising.

            But in the context that the financial future of the team is very much up in the air, (perhaps he already knew that they are forced to take Maldonado and his PDVSA dollars next season). Of course another primary mistake was made the day before, which is their embarrassing miscalculation on what time would be needed to get out of Q1. An error like that points to a real weakness in Lotus’ engineering, given that Mercedes published their estimated Q1 cut-off time on the radios and it was spot on.

            It’s too bad Lotus doesn’t have more money, but it doesn’t excuse those errors either.

          8. Do not agree, this just highlight the issues this team has. There are plenty of things in the air and are solved upon the issue is forced. This also explains exactly why Lotus keep on doing same mistakes again and again. Management of the team is not competent enough to become TOP team.

          9. @keithcollantine
            Agreed, the hypocrisy and double standards among certain ‘fans’ are simply beyond belief; if it were Grosjean who forced Raikkonen off the track I bet they would also be lining up to stone Grosjean to death, but oh wait since it’s Raikkonen it just means that ‘he knows what he’s doing’ doesn’t it >_> Tsk.

          10. they would all*

          11. Keith,
            justifying Permane’s language by something Raikkonen said 7 years(!) ago or by wording used by some stranger in net (“Raikkonen fans”) is bit far fetched. Raikkonen hardly cannot be responsible for everything that is being said in the net.

            As for the individuals involved, do believe both Raikkonen and Permane will get over this after a discussion.

            The only loser here is Lotus PR. Their performance this year together with Raikkonen has won over lot of fans. Using this kind of language towards their driver will not help Lotus in any way.

          12. Not impressed with this argument at all.

            Permane is a senior member of the team talking to a highly respected driver. It’s not just the low language, it’s the total disrespect. That really is beneath contempt. You wouldn’t find any other second in command in any other team behaving in that vulgar way to their driver. Not to a rookie, never mind a WDC.
            Keith you are plain wrong.

      2. Romain almost took Kimi out at Singapore 2012, Spa 2013 and Korea 2013.

        Where were Alan Permane??

        In germany, Romain use bad radio as excuses for not letting Kimi through. he ended up holding kimi for 5 laps before letting Kimi pass. On that point, kimi’s used option had already scream enough.

        In bahrain 2012, team didn’t use team order until it was too late. Eric said he didn’t want to hurt Romain’s feeling.

        Team rather lose wins than upsetting Romain.

        1. Perhaps because he knew for some time already who he could count on and who would jump ship at the first sight of a few extra bucks.

          1. Or, you know, any bucks…

          2. @antifia I’m guessing you have a bi-weekly paycheck and work at a desk? Tell me how long you’d sit on your ass if your employer delayed your checks.

            Few extra bucks? how about sticking with the contract and paying him on time, your comment is total nonsense. Why do you think Hulk hasnt gone there yet, he wants to see the money before he becomes the next sucker.

          3. @mpmark According to all sources, the reason Hulkenberg hasn’t signed for Lotus yet it’s because Lotus hasn’t said yes, not the other way around. Let’s not make up stuff now, please.

        2. right, romain hold him to long, and we not hear kimi complaint about him, even his the only one who can beat vettel, kimi and RGt are rival, and lotus should know them. Its absolutely lotus fault if they dont give the instruction before, and kimi foul if he got instruction before

        3. Candice, perhaps it was because, oh I don’t know, Grosjean wasn’t on heavily worn tyres and didn’t force Raikkonen off the track while a rival team was in hot pursuit >_> SMH like seriously at some Raikkonen fans…

      3. @keithcollantine Kimi fanboys and fangirls will never handle something like this. But I think Lotus can handle such things much better with more control.

        1. Yeah ‘course they can handle it. By the professional method of screaming swear words at their drivers.

      4. I expect there was rather more to the radio exchange than what was played. I don’t believe the first thing Raikkonen was told about Grosjean coming up behind him was a message telling him to “get out of the ******* way”.

        Maybe there was something before… it is the downside of not getting all the radio transmition, a frase of word take out of context or with out listen to an entire conversation can sound a lot worst than what it was

        1. There wasn’t anything before Permane admitted it. So just went on the radio and suddenly scream at Kimi. Very unprofessional for a senior team member to act this way.

          You can read it in Amus.

          1. @angelia

            There wasn’t anything before Permane admitted it.

            Where did he do that? I can’t find a link to that.

          2. @angelia Can you give us a link to the quote, please

      5. Keith, the language was utterly unprofessional. Period.
        For that alone an apology was warranted. Regardless of the driver or the scenario.

        As for any radio messages to Kimi about Grosjean approaching, it was clear from Kimi´s own response he was not fully aware of the drivers behind him. And based on mistakes in this race, and previous ones by Lotus I would not be at all surprised if Kimi was not kept fully abreast of what was going on.

        But my conjecture is as useless as yours without the full facts. So it would be best if we both worked on the information we had rather than giving what could be completely erroneous opinons.

        1. @scratt

          it would be best if we both worked on the information we had rather than giving what could be completely erroneous opinions

          That’s a fair point but I don’t see it happening and besides which Lotus have issued this unnecessary mea culpa based on what was broadcast.

          1. Your comment about Permane being the messenger (below) is also a valid one tbh.

            Overall I think Grosjean was the most level headed about this. His description after the race of Kimi being in a “bad situation” was quite statesman-like.

            Kimi obviously didn´t want to let Grosjean past easily. Although I am sure he knew it was inevitable that he would get past.

            I think the Mercedes bearing down on them both, the timing of it all coming together at that corner, and his tyres then catching him out contributed to the whole situation.

          2. OmarR-Pepper (@)
            28th October 2013, 19:50

            At any case, both Permane and Kimi should apologize @keithcollantine . I mean, if they keep twitting that “kimi knows what he’s doing” and then apologise when he is told off for doing wrong, the only result is that it looks like Kimi is the boss and Permane the employee,

          3. +1 @omarr-pepper Kimi should apologise too … but that’s never going to happen

          4. KC has made up his mind, please don’t confuse him with facts or information.

      6. I guess its because Lotus know how many Kimi fans are out there @keithcollantine. But honestly, I was saying much the same under my breath :-)

        1. More likely because of the Kimi fans that have taken to threatening a team member.

          IMHO Lotus should have stan for itself and it´s personal. I don´t think F1 public is so delicate that can´t takes censored swearing.

          1. imagine your fav driver being sweared at.

            Put yourself in other;s shoe. Its equally laughable to expect the fans to be happy with their driver being yelled and sweared at.

          2. Considering how my favorite driver talks, I will be shock if swearing between team members wasn´t part of his daily rutin… And surely Kimi use swear words even more than the other drivers… so let´s not exagerate…

      7. @keithcollantine

        I expect there was rather more to the radio exchange than what was played. I don’t believe the first thing Raikkonen was told about Grosjean coming up behind him was a message telling him to “get out of the ******* way”.

        The fact that it was Alan Permane delivering the message strongly suggests that Raikkonen had already ignored an instruction from his own race engineer.

        1. Hey, the real question is how does Grosjean always end up in a “crashing” position at wheel to wheel, even when the driver he wants to overtake is 2 seconds a lap slower. Did you not see how Rosberg got the job completed with little fuss…. That how it’s suppose to be done.

        2. @red-andy

          The fact that it was Alan Permane delivering the message strongly suggests that Raikkonen had already ignored an instruction from his own race engineer.

          Indeed – as with Grosjean and Boullier in Korea.

          1. Eric Boullier told Skysport kimi was unaware.

            Alan said he thought Kimi was smart enough.

            Speak volume about 0 communication being held beforehand.

            Keith ‘s kimi hater character keep showing up. SMH

        3. Look further to the point here, I agree with Keith C… Kimi is not a rookie… it’s just gabage for anyone to think he was not aware that he was slower than RG…Kimi should really have done the team player thing and gotten out of the way well ahead of time he had nothing to gain or lose (totally out of the champiioship on both counts)… ok yes the team c@#$ed up the strategy but this would not be the first time this has happened in F1, and also to Kimi, so he should know better and understand that s@#$ happens… to say that the team should not have used sterner words, which correctly or incorrectly included an obscenity, is terribly wrong coz Kimi should have been out of the way well before that.. he knew he was not competitive and therefore had no business being in that position I mean he was handicapped with the finished tyres… what, he didn’t know his tyres were shot and that the people coming behind including a teammate were substantially faster?..tsk PLEASE.. Lotus should not have even apologized publicly here coz Kimi (former world champion and one of the most experienced drivers on th grid today) is to blame for that outburst totally beacause he failed to be aware of what was happening around him… Kimi can’t be given a pass just because people like him…

          1. How was Kimi supposed to be aware of what was going on around him?
            Using his handy iPad with Live Telemetry that he has in the cockpit?
            Looking at the TV feed as he drove around the track?
            Reading pit boards?
            Or from team radio messages?
            Perhaps, using his ample wing mirrors to identify cars behind him?
            Or maybe using psychic powers.

            Kimi had none of the above.
            As has already been established, he was given no information by the team, and Grosjean picked a bad pace to pass. These are facts that are not disputed about the situation.

            How many times during a race do we hear other teams giving information on the position of other drivers to their drivers. How many times during a race do we hear drivers asking for the same info? Very often in both cases. Not in this case with Lotus – despite the impending situation being apparent for several laps.

            I think it is reasonable to assume that Kimi (especially given the problems he was dealing with with the car) could expect some info from his team when his team mate is coming up behind fast – and that the team and his team mate would not choose to do that with profanity nor in a fast corner.

            Notwithstanding any of that. The team on the pit wall should give calm impartial information to their drivers – at least on the first radio call on a particular subject. The fact that they failed in that task is not up for debate.

            The bottom line here is the team failed in their duties. And yet that is not what the apology is for. The apology is for their use of unprofessional language, which regardless of any other point you or I make, is just plain wrong – and should be apologised for.

          2. @scratt

            he was given no information by the team

            We don’t hear all the messages that are broadcast to the drivers so I wouldn’t make that assumption.

            Normally drivers get messages from their race engineers in the first instance – Mark Slade in Raikkonen’s case. Other team members tend to get involved if there’s a matter of dispute, as we saw with this team in Korea where Grosjean repeatedly complained to his race engineer Ayao Komatsu about being stuck behind Raikkonen, to the point that Eric Boullier came on the radio and basically told him to pipe down.

            The only message played to Raikkonen about the traffic that we heard came from Alan Permane, which makes me wonder if there wasn’t some other dialogue before that. At the very least I’d’ve expected Raikkonen to have had a position update when he was passed by Rosberg, and information that the next car behind him was his team mate.

          3. I was under the impression (from ongoing discussion here and links provided) that Permane had confirmed that that was the first communication to Kimi on the subject. Is that not the case?

          4. @scratt Not to the best of my knowledge.

          5. @scratt, the fact that Kimi took the defensive line shows that he knew that Roman is close behind. He also knew that Roman was catching him up very quickly because they do look in the mirrors. If you look in the mirror first time and there is no-one there and you look second time and there is someone all over your back side it means they are quicker than you, apart that he knew his tires are finished. So as a Kimi fan you shouldn’t suggest that he didn’t know what was going on, because you’re insulting his intelligence.

          6. Kimi was very clear after the race. He is there to race his team mate as well as any other pilot.

            He has also shown he is more than willing to follow team orders when appropriate. He did so when he was Massa’s team mate at Ferrari.

            This debate is not about what Kimi did or didn’t know about the situation. It is about what the team actually communicated to him, and how they communicated it.

            If asked to move over Kimi would have done so, I am sure. Until then, good tyres or bad tyres, fast car behind or not, he will rightly keep racing.

      8. Keith, it doesn’t matter what you “expect” World Champion & Lotus Winner Kimi Raikkonen to do sitting behind your laptop! Kimi will do what he deems fit driving at 250kmph and making split second decisions out on track. This is not Codemasters F1 2013.

        1. I’m not making any assumptions about what he did. My point was that we haven’t heard all of what was said.

      9. @keithcollantine I agree, it’s unfortunate they’ve felt they needed to apologize. If anything they should be putting THIS radio message on a shirt! I imagine someone will already have a design in the works even if Lotus don’t.

        1. Of course they felt they needed to do so. Do you think it’s because of Grosjean their following more then doubled (their twitter tripled). Or it’s Grosjean who is scoring 2/3s of their points for past two years.

          It was handled very unprofessionally, clears up certain decisions what were made under pressure by Lotus in past. Maybe they need to revise certain things if they to become top team.

      10. I am really disappointed and surprised to see that you view this as no apology was needed, Keith. First of all, in your example, Kimi did not swear to his team. He merely asked to be left alone to concentrate on his driving. And I thought you of all people would know the difference between a reply coming from a driver in the midst of a race and a profiled leader in a team shouting abuse from the pit wall to an employee in public. There are no words for how incredibly unprofessional that is. Anyone who runs a business or knows the slightest thing about proper conduct knows that this is just not done. It is reserved for closed doors. Not to mention that this kind of public behaviour towards a driver is unprecedented as far as I know in F1. Only thing I know that is slightly similar is Singapore 2008 and crash-gate with Flavios words to Piquet. Ironically it involved the same team. But its far from comparable.

        So an apology is the least they could do. It should have come from Permane himself, though. That you compare this to something Kimi said in 2006 in jest is just ridiculous to be honest. Apples and oranges. You have apparently completely missed the context in this matter.

        1. @desdirodeabike Shouldn’t they also apologise for swearing at Grosjean, then?

          I don’t think they should apologise for either, but if swearing at Raikkonen was such an appalling thing to do why did no one care when they did the same to Grosjean three weeks ago?

          1. They aren’t swearing at Grosjean there. Using cuss words in a conversation *with* somebody is completely different to swearing *at* them.

          2. Really Keith? Really? What Gollum said. It was not swearing *at* Grosjean. I know this, and English isn’t even my first language.

          3. Gollum, @desdirodeabike, Isn’t what you are suggesting the same as “***** way”? They are not referring to Kimi using the f word. The f word used when they spoke to Roman can be seen in the same context with the f word spoken to Kimi. Without knowing the how people in the team talk to each other in normal circumstances you can’t say they’ve been rude to Kimi. As I said in another comment on this article, in the office I work at the f word is used even when we greet each other, not to mention going out on the street.

        2. Sorry no apology in my view….If we want to listen to the radio broadcasts…we expect them to be as they are..warts and all…not scripted…The team needed the points…and Kimi not always a team player, so he has to be reminded…should be good with Alonso nxt year..

        3. I didn’t know this was even an issue until I came here. The team told its driver to get out of the way using strong language, because the situation was quite tense. At that moment they were under risk of losing not only a potential podium, but both drivers ending in points, and it looked like the clearly much slower driver just wouldn’t move on his own.

          Besides, strong words were used to emphasize to immediacy and importance of the message, there was no assault. (I bet everyone who was watching this yelled exactly the same thing – although that’s beside the point, but it just shows that it wasn’t personal in all likelyhood). This is especially evident with the directly following response from the driver, where he flat out verbally abuses Permane. Kimi calls him ****** for crying out loud. If anyone should be apologizing it’s Kimi first.

          in any case, i love the guy, and i love his radio communication with the team. i don’t mind tense moments and high emotions at all – in fact, i’d love to see and hear more of that. be human, for christ’s sake, and settle it like everyone else does. no public apology is required here.

      11. You are wrong Permane said he assumed Kimi would move out of the way without having to say anything. You can read it in Amus.

        So this was the first message Kimi got.

      12. But when Raikkonen never asked them to “shut the **** up,” did he? “Leave me alone” isn’t anywhere near as aggressive as Permane’s wording.

      13. No apology required? So … Mercedes speak to Nico like that, do they? “Get out of the ***** way, Lewis coming through!” It was totally unprofessional from Alan Permane. It also demonstrates a slapdash and shoddy approach to planning strategy. Just because some old mechanic has slogged his way through the years at the team does not automatically give him the management skills to plan races.

      14. @keithcollantine While I agree to your point and it is perfectly an adrenaline thing and what goes around comes around… I think there are 2 factors that are important here 1) Drivers Seniority and 2) Driver’s Popularity

        lets just take for example the following scenarios

        1) Had Red Bull sent the same message to Vettel to make way for Webber … Red Bull and that person would be considered the best person/action of the planet earth

        2) Had Red Bull sent the same message to Webber to make way for Vettel…. can you imagine that…. Vettel & Red Bull would not have been cursed to eternity….. maybe it is quite possible Vettel would be be wearing the race helmet on the Podium fearing his safety.

        3) Had Ron Dennis given the same order to Fernando during the qualifying pit stop of Hungaroring 2007 … Imagine the fall out of the scene…

        4) lets say Massa was given the same message to make way for Alonso it is just standard operating procedure, nobody would have cared and it would not be even a headline…

        As much as it is Adrenaline, it is also about how much a person commands the respect and how big is his fan base which decides what is right or wrong.

        IN simple terms. lets just say instead of Kimi had Vettel told Rocky “Leave me alone, I know what i am doing” … Vettel would be labelled as an arrogant kid and people would say that success has got on to his head….. On the other hand for Kimi, it is the best comment of the year…. people make T shirts with it and wrangler uses them in the Jean Commercial. Do you believe Pepe would dare to use similar comments with Vettel for their commercials ?

      15. +1.

        Kimi has a spicy mouth, shure his ears can take a bit of spice as well.

      16. @KeithCollantine I think that the apology as such is not a bad thing. If you feel that you have done something wrong, you apologise. Swearing and screaming at your driver is not a nice thing to do so an apology makes sense from that point of view.

        However, you rightly point out the double standards here. I doubt if Permane really regrets his behaviour or that Lotus are now going to change the way they communicate within the team. It’s more likely that they all accept swearing and occasional outbursts as part of their business and don’t have an issue with that.

        I think the team doesn’t really intend to apologise to Kimi, who probably doesn’t give a damn. The intention is to calm down some angry fans, who have blown it out of all proportion.

        1. this indeed seems to be the case, as apparently Permane received death threats following the incident.

    2. I would love to see some of these so called examples of where Kimi has acted exactly the same way?

      It is unprofessional for a person in power, a senior member of a team, to shout at an employee in public. You just dont do it. How often has anyone seen senior members acting this way? Never? I wonder why.

      Good that Boullier has apologized but it should have been Permane.

      1. But is ok for Kimi to curse? Man, talk about doble standard…

        1. It is not about the cursing at all, Permane can curse as much as he wants.

          If you are a boss or a manger or a person in power, or a senior member of a team you dont just scream at your employee in public. This is really just common courtesy. People skills 101.

          Do you think it is alright for your boss the scream at you in front of other people or in front of customers?

          1. OH, please! Other drivers have been getting worst if this weren´t Kimi surely can take it

          2. @angelia Just leave it alone, they know what they’re doing out there.

            Raikkonen’s surely swallowed this already and moved on, he’s grown enough and rich enough.

    3. Yeah right. Often Ross Brawn gets on the radio and tells Nico “Get out the ******* way of Lewis” NOT

  3. Just the usual PR routine. Lotus don’t want to look bad by being abusive to their drivers.

    Think it’s a load of rubbish, myself. All just part of the sport. It’s passion! Sorry, but swearing happens if the adrenaline’s going. That’s life. Don’t have to grovel about it.

    1. In ISO, non-conformance by employee = minor, non-conformance by team = major.
      In MotoGP, non-conformance by rider = penalty, non-conformance by team = disqualification.
      In F1? Not much..

  4. Has Kimi apologised for trying to run his teammate off the road?

    1. Where did this happen?

      1. Right when Grosjean was about to pass him when Massa was chasing them down and thus the reason Alan Permane screamed at Raikkonen and the existence of this discussion? >_>

      2. In the race, on track @angelia, I am surprised you did not follow the race and see it with your own eyes. Its the reason why the team was insisting on Kimi making room.

        1. Did you even watch the race? My TV showed Romain catching Kimi with something like 2 sec per lap, and when he did catch up with Kimi he did a typical Romain manouvre. An immature risky overtake at he first corner after coming close to Kimi. Now how smart was that? With Kimi clearly going inside, just what did he expect with Kimis worn out tyres? Slid out he did, how unexpected huh? Had Romain waited a corner or two he had been easily let by dont you think? But instead; first corner, first chance, lets go for it… And then Alan going nuts on radio? Just stupid. Reality check; for how many laps had Kimi held up Romain ahead of this incident? Or maybe, how many corners? None, ok, there you go. Which of the two Lotus drivers have a clear record of not hitting other drivers on track? Which of them have a recurring urge of ramming into others on track? I just can not believe how many commentators here obviously didnt se same race as me. Maybe I have to check up on my ophtalmologist?

  5. I cannot stop thinking of team radios next year with Raikkonen and Alonso at Ferrari. For sure we will have a lot of fun :)

    1. @malik If we hear any of it – there have been quite a few races where conspicuously little of Alonso’s radio messages have been broadcast.

      1. @Keith Collantine: We (F1 fanatics) will rely on you to provide us with these interesting stuff :)

      2. i think that’s because they mostly speak in italian.

      3. @keithcollantine conspicuously? I do not eat the fact that Alonso could have a special censure regime do you really?

        1. @spoutnik it might not be a Censure regime but the other way around that there are some many words that needs to be censured that the only thing left would be some verbs & prepositions which might not make any sense … Just kidding….

          why even make the following comment public :)

          ****** has his ***** ***** on my *****

          1. @tmax hehehe can be funny :)

        2. @spoutnik I don’t know why it is but I do think it’s odd given he’s one of the top drivers and he’s very popular. That said it seemed like there was more than usual from his radio in India. Will have a better idea once I’ve done the race transcript.

          1. @keithcollantine Yep, we’ll see :) but I doubt he has a favor regime. I’d be more inclined to think that they speak in Italian and as the race management don’t understand it they don’t want to risk airing something inappropriate.

  6. How often have you guys seen Kimi angry?

    There has to be a real reason why went and gave Permane a piece of his mind outside the hospitality area after the race.

    Interesting to see if he even bothers to come to Abu Dhabi after what happened in India.

    1. “I want to punch him in the face” about Perez. And dare to say it was deserved. If you do, then Kimi deserved it 2x to hear something in India.

      Kimi is never respectless or mean according to Kimi Räikkönen fans.

      1. Someone should punch him in the face. A bit of difference there. One example in 12 years, Kimi has great restraint.

        1. So violence againts another driver is ok… cursing no… ok dokey …

    2. What happened after the race?

      1. application of champagne and ice-cream to burned areas, presumably.

    3. Kimi should just reply..PAY ME FIRST!

  7. I think they’re right to apologise. To think otherwise would be to imply that this was a perfectly acceptable way for the team to speak to a driver. I made the same point about Rakkonen’s attitude he has shown his team, which I also believe is thoroughly unprofessional. There should be a certain standard of mutual respect and professionalism which should be maintained when communicating, and heat of the moment is simply not an excuse. Of course, people are human and mistakes can be made. But like civilised people we understand and reflect on our actions and apologise when we have acted inappropriately. It’s just part of setting that standard.

    1. Keeping racing for the team when you haven’t got your payment and fighting when every point you gain is bad for your future scuderia is thoroughly unprofessional?

      Kimi said to finnish television that after his contract with Ferrari was announced attitude of some Lotus bosses towards Kimi changed significantly… wondering who he might mean!

  8. This is defintely a the were of blind fanatism, empowered by the power of social media.

    It’s simply astonishing the amount how caricaturish the views of some people regarding this sport’s members. We either have holy entities, that ever the smallest of thinds done to them are reason of scandal (this case) or mean villains, that even the smallest things are reason to hate on (Vettel with, well, 99% of what people criticize him for).

    They used a curse word. Wow. Raikkonen is 34, and not strange to this kind of language (no one in F1 is, especially since they started to use profanity to avoid radio messages from being broadcasted), it’s as small of a deal as it gets. But it escalated to irrational levels.

    Just amazing.

    1. It is just as amazing that people keep on insulting Kimi fans to try and get point across.

      It is not about curse, it about senior member screaming to an employee in public.

      1. “senior member screaming to an employee in public” is as much out of context as it gets. add names, setting, and the exact situation, and you get quite a usual sports moment. ever heard of football?

  9. I don’t see the need for an apology. This was a message from the team to the driver and was no-one else’s business (we might love to hear what’s going on, but as viewers we should really be passive on this issue.

    As I understand it it is the FIA/FOM which forces teams to transmit radio broadcasts which are also made available for broadcast and that FOM selected this particular one for broadcast. In theory the teams should continue to have the same freedom they had in the days when radio messages were encrypted so that they can get on with their job. I think that it isn’t really fair on the teams that the drivers and engineers have to be thinking about PR even during a race. Using unsavoury language can be an effective means of getting an important point across in a heat-of-the-moment situation. It’s up to Kimi whether or not he takes it personally or how he handles it, but since it’s fairly obvious that what Lotus were calling for was totally reasonable (given that Kimi ended up pitting again) then I can’t see him having any real problem with it. I’m sure he’s more focussed on why his strategy didn’t work than the choice of words in that message.

    If there’s an issue with a particular transmission then it should be up to FOM whether or not it’s broadcast and not left to the team to apologise.

  10. We have discussed Vettel being booed by some lunatics several times this year, but sadly the phenomenon has spread to lunatics sending offensive messages and even sending death threats to Alan Permane and other Lotus team members.

    Just to be clear: I think swearing during a race is not on a personal level. I’m sure there’s a lot more swearing than the FOM plays during the races. Just a few weeks in Korea, Lewis Hamilton said his tyres were “******”, Raikkonen himself swore on the podium at the 2012 Abu Dhabi GP and the amount of swearing at Renault during the 2008 Singapore GP is just unbelievable. People just say things in the heat of the moment, especially in sports.

    I think the problem is that people are under the impression that Lotus should be ‘grateful’ to have Raikkonen as their driver, and as such, every team member should treat Raikkonen with the utmost respect. This is the only way I can explain why people think ‘leave me alone’ is perceived as ‘funny’, while ‘get out of the ***** way!’ is disrespectful. And this perception is only made worse by Lotus making T-shirts of the former, and apologizing for the latter. Boullier called the former a “Formula 1 classis”, and the latter “not appropriate”.

    1. “Formula 1 classis”


    2. I think people have pretty good grounds for feeling that. Specially if you pull some stats up from the past two years of their relationship.

      It goes down to how Lotus chose to handle the situation, they knew what was going to happen and could have arranged the overtake laps before, instead, I personally think – they were too exited to see Grosjean catch Kimi that zero analytic thoughts and the future complication went through their mind.

      1. I’m sure Lotus are glad that Grosjean is putting up a fight to Kimi because they need someone that would count as a good driver for the next year, in case they can’t afford Hulkenberg. But saying “they were too exited to see Grosjean catch Kimi” is a bit exaggerating.
        If you look at how they were reacting in the similar situations throughout the year you should notice that they have been pretty consistent. They leave for the drivers to do the right thing for the team and if the drivers don’t do that they are “strongly” reminded over the radio. Both drivers have received messages like that. As for the Indian GP, with his pace in the last laps Kimi didn’t need to be a genius to figure out that trying to hold Roman behind is not only futile but also a damaging for the team.

    3. @andae23 – Very well said, agreed.

  11. Why does F1 as a whole (team, drivers, stewards) try so hard not to be humans?

    I understand Kimi and Vettel saying the word at the podium in Abu Dhabi could’ve been avoided and it was not necessary. But why does it all have to be so PR-polite???

    1. OmarR-Pepper (@)
      28th October 2013, 19:59

      @fer-no65 I guess the F1 broadcast is rated as G (all the family) in all countries. It’s the same reason why the SuperBowl and the Oscar get the 2 or 3 seconds delay from what happens live, to avoid swearing or censorable attitudes being broadcast.
      It’s not to be ultra conservative or puritans. It’s more a legal matter, as any clever guy can sue them for “teaching misbehavior” to youngsters.
      About celebrations, as Alonso in Valencia or Vettel in India, they should just let the winner do the celebration, and I’m not talking about double standards, it’s there Fer, where I agree with you about pretending F1 not to be a “human” sport.

    2. And I don’t understand why this “get out of the ******* way” is counted as a cursing. My English is not very good but it’s not hard to see that the F word is used as an adjective to the “way”. It’s not used to describe Kimi or refer in any way to him. If I count the words used in the normal conversation in my office the F word would be on top by a huge margin.
      I guess the tone in which the sentence above was said was a bit harsh but that’s the frustration by the team that expected Kimi to do the right thing without being prompted.

    3. @fer-no65
      That happens because some grown-up kids (so-called “adults”) believe this is bad to use such a language. As a philologist I believe that every word is created for it’s exact purpose. There are situation when we should use those words because they perfectly describe our feelings.
      So, the problem is that grown-up kids fear that their children will learn and use those words. Which is considered bad. Well, as I see it, adults should explain when and why we have the right to use swearwords. If we try to “shut the drivers up” we are becoming hypocrites. Because I am absolutely sure that everyone in this topic (including Keith Collantine) has already used those words. Don’t forget that your child will learn everything from their fellers)
      I see this situation as this: Permane shouldn’t have told that to Kimi. And those words forced Kimi to talk that way. That’s why Permane must apologize first. Then, it’s Kimi turn.
      Moreover, I feel that Kimi has more right to say that. He is currently 3rd in a WD standings, he isn’t payed money for his work. 64% of team’s points are due to Kimi’s effort. At the same time his team makes a lot of mistakes, esp. in management.
      In this race they put Kimi in horrible situation when it was obvious that the finn should come to the pits on 45-46th lap and try finish on higher position. Secondly, their car was in pretty bad conditions which is again, team’s fault.

      1. if that language wasn’t used, we’d have the following exchange instead:
        – Kimi, get out of the way.
        – Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing.

  12. I can understand why Lotus apologized, it looks very unprofessional to have your Director of Trackside Operations cursing out a driver during a race, regardless of circumstances. Especially when team strategy led to the situation in the first place. At that point their driver had managed to go almost 50 laps on tires that were not recommended to go past 35 laps. Lotus have already had this strategy issue previously and they should have called Kimi in as soon as his lap times dropped to avoid this whole situation no matter who was behind him. As Brundle noted during the broadcast Kimi could barely keep his car on the track because the tires were shot. Maybe Grosjean could have picked a better spot to pass.

    It also looks bad to have upper team management cursing on the radio at anybody during a race while the Lotus board is trying to court corporate sponsors to essentially save their team. My guess is this the main reason for the apology.

    Lotus needs Raikkonen, and Grosjean, to perform at the highest level for the remaining 3 races to maximize points in the WCC race. Lotus has a chance to take 2nd place depending on how everything plays out.

    Yes, I am a Kimi fan and am not excusing his language on the radio, stuff happens and we all know what to expect from him by now. I don’t think Kimi was trying to do anything to hurt the team, on the contrary he had a great drive in India. There are a lot of underlying circumstances on both sides that are not the fault of Permane or Raikkonen. It was the heat of the moment and I expect Lotus and both of their drivers to perform to the best of their abilities in Abu Dhabi.

  13. Lotus are lucky that they used this sort of unacceptable language against Kimi. If it were Hamilton or Alonso there would’ve already been a media storm over this. Kimi didn’t play it up after the race .

    1. A nice thought there if it would have been Hamilton instead of Kimi, the peoples reactions on this forum would have been real enjoying to see…

      And btw it seems that at Lotus the driver is bigger than the team.

  14. For those who think that Permane cursing to Kimi was completely okay by comparing him to what Räikkönen has said earlier: Vettel’s race engineers said a while back that the one who sits on the pitwall has to be calm, professional and keep his emotions under control, because the drivers aren’t able to do that. The drivers are filled with adrenaline, cranky and they can’t see the big picture etc. etc. The race engineer has to be able to keep the whole package together and if he can’t act in a calm way then he is in the wrong position.

    Permane said a while ago that Romain has matured and got rid of his hysterical moments. Apparently Permane still has some work to do with his own hysteria.

    Indian GP was a perfect example of how the communication between an engineer and a driver should never happen. Apparently Permane got so hysterical over Kimi’s response that he immediately cut off Kimi’s radio, which emphasized his disrespect for a Lotus-driver who was still on the track.

  15. They needed to apologize. What Lotus did, was unethical. They know very well that radio messages are broadcasted, so this is the same as the chief shouting at his employee in the eyes of all the others. It is very bad, no matter what wrong had the employee done. Let alone Raikkonen is not a bad employee, is the only one who had brought them race wins. And if the rumors that he is not payed are true, than he shows that he is still committed to the team.
    The radio message showed once more how bitter and frustrated are at Lotus about Raikkonen leaving. Those odd tweets and strange strategy choice for Indian Grand Prix yesterday, and the shouting at the inner ear of the driver while struggling in fast corner, all are signs of bitterness.
    So they needed to.

  16. Immature at best would be my response to this.

    I mean, we get it, you want to cry and bitch about your best driver leaving but at least pay the damn man before being so butthurt about it.

    The fact they’ve been so ready to throw Raikkonen to the wolves and throw all their weight around Grosjean as soon as he decided to leave really shows the true class of Lotus. Absolutely pathetic in my opinion.

    1. @aced

      they’ve been so ready to throw Raikkonen to the wolves

      If that were even remotely close to being true then when Grosjean asked them to tell Raikkonen to let him past in Korea they would have done.

      1. @silence @keithcollantine

        I honestly think you’re missing the point of what exactly went on in Korea. What team principal in their right mind would risk a double podium finish by having their drivers fight it on track just for a meaningless position switch?

        They were so desperately trying to motivate Grosjean(especially his race engineer) that he could take Raikkonen and beat him fair and square to the point that it was nauseating to listen to.

        It’s honestly starting to feel like they’re more interested in “showing” Raikkonen that Grosjean can beat him rather than motivating Grosjean which is what they should focus on right now for next year. I mean, do you seriously believe they would swear at Raikkonen in such a fashion back before he decided he was gonna leave? Hell, at times it even looked like Raikkonen was running the team back then instead of Boullier.

        I get it, from the “humping bunnies” twitter picture to swearing at him and all this attitude change it’s obvious they do feel betrayed. But they shouldn’t at least be ungrateful to him after he’s the one who’s given them 2 wins and all the points they wouldn’t have gotten otherwise. It just doesn’t bode very well with me when people are ungrateful.

        On the other hand I really do hope this works out for Grosjean as I really do like him and it would be great to see him doing well. Raikkonen is just plain rude and I’m definitely not a fan.

        1. @aced That’s looking way too much into it. To put it kindly.

        2. @aced Also, the order was not for “a pointless position switch”, but because Raikkonen was slowing down Grosjean who was being chased by Massa.

          Of all the stuff you looked so deep into, you missed the most obvious of details. Amazing what fanaticism does.

          1. Grosjean had just reached Kimi, it was first time when he was close enough to overtake. So Kimi wasn’t actually slowing him down.

            Grosjean decided to try and overtake Kimi on the outside. Grosjean should also have realized that Kimi was driving around with very worn out tyres and his brakes wasn’t working properly, he had to commit to that corner much earlier then Grosjean.
            Had Grosjean just been a bit more patient for another corner two Kimi would have let him pass.
            When Grosjean had to let Kimi pass in Bahrain last year and Germany this year, I didn’t see anyone who was concerned that Grosjean was taking 4-5 laps to get it done.
            If Lotus was so concerned that Kimi would be in Grosjean’s way why didn’t they just pit him, like Red Bull usually does?
            Even when a driver is blue flagged he doesn’t just immediate have to disappear. A lot depends on where you are on the track.

          2. @angelia Missed the point completely.

      2. Being told to “put a ***** smile ”

        and get the **** out of the way

        Keith needs to stop comparing apple with orange.

        Romain was never yelled at when he deliberately refuse to obey to team orders. Period.

    2. @aced

      The fact they’ve been so ready to throw Raikkonen to the wolves

      Stop being overdramatical. They asked him to move out of the way when he was 2s slower. That’s it. Sure, he cursed. OH NO THE HORROR.

      Seriously, keep some sense of proportion.

      1. It was also because of Permane,s lame strategical decisions that Kimi was there on track driving around on 50 laps old tyres, let not forget that small fact.

        1. @angelia Missed the point again.

        2. You get me confused a bit. Once you say that Kimi was not slowing Roman and he would let him by in a corner or two (although it didn’t look that way to me) and now you say that Kimi did it on purpose because they put him on a bed strategy. I don’t think you can have this both ways.

  17. I cant believe some people just dont understand the issue here. This has absolutely nothing to do with the cursing. This is about common business practices.

    Forget about F1, and place yourself in the position of an employee would it be alright for the boss to scream at you in front of your fellow employees or in front of customers? This is just something you dont do, even if the employee is in the wrong. This is just demeaning and bullying behavior.
    Permane is a senior figure in the team he is a person with power he should not be screaming at a driver in public. Have you ever seen any other senior team figures act at this way? Nope? Perhaps because it is uncalled for and inappropriate.

    It was purely because of Permane’s strategy that Kimi was in that position in the first place. Permane made a lot of blunders this weekend and I still haven’t seen him acknowledged his own mistakes.
    Yet after the race he goes around doing interviews blaming Kimi.

    BTW They didn’t say anything to Kimi beforehand, Permane admitted as much to Amus. So he just suddenly came on the radio and started screaming at Kimi in public, and yet somehow people dont see how that is unprofessional?


    1. @angelia A one-stop strategy was clearly Raikkonen’s best chance of finishing ahead of Massa and Hamilton. On a two-stop he would definitely have been behind them but with a one-stop at least he had a chance. After all his team mate made a one-stop strategy work.

      1. Grosjean had new soft tyres in his first stint Kimi did not. So no it was never the best strategy as the components within the situation wasn’t the same. On top of that Kimi’s brakes were overheating that causes tyres to degrade faster.

        The best strategy was a well executed two stop strategy. They should have pitted Kimi before Hulkenberg in the first stint instead of having Kimi stay out there and lose a lot of time on worn out soft tyres, and they shouldn’t have messed up Kimi’s pitstop. Then in the second stint Kimi could have pitted before Rosberg. He would have been on for a podium had the team follow this simple strategy. Instead of trying to do over 50 laps on one set of tyres, which Pirelli advised against.
        Permane said afterwards it was all Kimi’s idea, but there was actually team radio where Kimi was asking for a two stop strategy and they just ignored him. It was due to Permane’s decisions that Kimi was there in the first place.

        Grosjean just approached Kimi, they didn’t say anything beforehand about Kimi letting Grosjean through. Permane just suddenly jumped on the radio and screamed at Kimi. That is just really unprofessional behavior.

        Permane made a lot of mistakes over the weekend first with Grosjean in qualifying and then with Kimi during the race, yet he doesn’t notice any of his own mistakes.

        1. @angelia

          Grosjean just approached Kimi, they didn’t say anything beforehand about Kimi letting Grosjean through. Permane just suddenly jumped on the radio and screamed at Kimi. That is just really unprofessional behaviour.

          You’re assuming that what was played on the radio was the sum total of the discussion. That is unlikely.

          And the idea that Raikkonen’s strategy was inflicted on him by anyone is rather undermined by the fact that he supported it afterwards and even during the race said he wanted to stick with the plan of running a one-stopper.

      2. Keith is just a kimi hater. You can tell from how he ignores kimi brake issues, slow pit stop etc and claim romain did better job because kimi suckd

        1. he ignores Kimi’s brake issues

          You mean the ones I mentioned here?

        2. wow, quite often i don’t agree with Keith on many things, but he usually comes of as one of the most objective people here, if only it’s his job to accumulate all the available information and analyse it. this comment says more about hate/fanaticism of the poster than the site owner.

    2. @Angelia. Give it a rest, do you get all hot and bothered when a football coach goes off at his players? I hope not as that would be pretty stupid. Same here.

      1. I dont watch soccer but isn’t exactly the same setup.

        Do you approve of when your boss screams at you in public? Or perhaps you are type of boss who screams at your employees in public.

        1. Not the same setup, exactly, just like F1 manager and driver is nothing like a normal employment relationship which you keep referring to. Do I care if my boss yells, not if I’m paid many millions I wouldn’t. Also you don’t know what there relationships is like and Kimi isn’t a shrinking violet away from the cameras, and he got what he deserved with that silly move. Your comment about me yelling was juvenile.

          You don’t watch football, maybe if you did you’d realise that in this situation it’s not a big deal.

          1. But F1 is a business, and Permane is the second in command of that team, that clearly means that he has much more power and authority against Kimi.

            How did Kimi get what he deserved, what exactly did he do wrong? He was on worn out tyres, and his brakes wasn’t working properly he had to commit to that corner much earlier then Grosjean, he car was clearly sliding around. Why did Grosjean decide to try and overtake on the out side, when the car in front is sliding around? Grosjean could have used a bit of patience, as Kimi let him through right aftter a few corners. It shouldn’t have been difficult for Grosjean to get pass Kimi was much slower.

            If it is such a dead normal everyday thing for senior team members to scream at their drivers, then please provide some examples to proof your point.

            It wasn’t a juvenile question, it was a question to make you think about the situation from your own perspective.

  18. Raikkonen told them not to talk to him while he was cornering.

    HAHAHA brilliant!

    People are taking this far too seriously. If they swore and got annoyed then so what? It’s just part of the sport and is nothing new. Stop overreacting.

    No need to apologise Lotus

    1. @strontium I think an apology was a good thing to do but it should be a “no hard feelings”-type comment more than anything. I’m sure it wasn’t intended with any malignant intent! :)

      1. Yes, I agree. But people have taken this out of proportion a lot. It isn’t that big a deal :)

  19. Speaking of the ‘appropriate’ word… maybe Lotus could first keep their word for their payroll obligations. EB even criticized Kimi for letting that little matter of fact out to the public. Fairness is a one way street with EB.

  20. Due to social media F1 has become a lot more sociable and it’s nice to be able to follow the drivers and team personnel and see what goes both behind the scenes and sometimes get a glimpse of their personal lives. However it’s sad that a few idiots decided to send abuse to Permane just because he shouted at the holy untouchable demi-God Kimi Raikkonen. Honestly I think Raikkonen has some of the worst fans in the sport, don’t get me wrong here but judging from some on the comments on here, Youtube, Twitter and other forums it seems that Kimi is the only driver above criticism. Of course this is only the minority and most Kimi fans are actually decent people but it is truly sad some of the things that this handful of people spout all over the internet.

    Just for the record I think it wasn’t right for Permane to yell at Kimi like that (even though we don’t know the whole story) but it’s too late to change anything and the reaction from some people has been way over the top. I’m pretty sure arguments and swearing happens on a frequent basis between drivers and their engineers. I don’t see why this fallout suddenly exploded in such a way.

  21. There was no need for an apologize. The swearing was nowhere near discussion worthy. It happened before to Grosjean in Korea.

    The main issue I’m rather having that Kimi fans aren’t acting rational at all. They treat Permane as new enemy because he was a rude to their favourite driver. Kimi was often behaving like a monkey towards others – in Abu Dhabi 2012 or the comment about Perez after Monaco 2013 for example. Additionally you shouldn’t forget how often Grosjean had to let Kimi pass during 2012 and 2013. It was about time that he shows some humbleness and gives Grosjean the place without a big fight – he should have the racing intelligence to know when to give up.

    It’s even more amazing that Kimi fans suddenly went crazy towards the team that allowed their driver more PR freedom than ever before. That Lotus didn’t pay him money shouldn’t be an arguement for a driver that is considered a “pure heart racer”.

    The whole topic has been overinflated thanks to the heavy criticism (and more than that…) on Lotus by the Kimi fans on social media. There is a difference between being a supporter and irrational fanatic hating on everything that is against their favourite driver/team.

    1. The issue doesn’t have anything to do with the swearing.

      Does your boss scream at you in font of co-workers and in front of clients? Would it be the correct protocol for a boss to follow?

      How can people not understand this?

      Any discussions between drivers and race engineers are among equals, but you dont have a senior member with more power scream at someone in public. That is just demeaning and bullying behavior.

      How did Lotus give Kimi more PR freedom? He did a lot more PR for them then Grosjean ever did.

      1. @Angelia. Once again, ok for football coach to yell at players? Of course it is. Comparing this to a normal job is stupid, pay me $10 mil or so and yell at me all you want.

        1. Once again I dont watch soccer but okay I’ll bite.

          A coach is there to, well coach. Drivers dont need coaches, and especially not while they are driving around with worn out tyres and brakes that isn’t working at 300km/h.
          A coach runs around on a massive open filed with hundreds of people cheering, talking at the same time. If he doesn’t shout no one would hear him. Soccer is a team sport everyone has to work together towards the team goal and everyone has the same goal for the team. That does not apply in F1.

          As for F1 it is a sport, but there also a normal business structure within F1 that you dont find in other sports. In team sports everyone is much more equal, whereas F1 has a big hierarchy. It does make sense to apply some of the same laws to F1 that would do in any other business, as F1 is also a business.

          Do you have any other examples of where senior team members screamed at their drivers in public?

          1. Referring to a coach yelling at players when they are not running around with people screaming, this happens all the time in multiple sports. Very easy to find.

            “Do you have any other examples of where senior team members screamed at their drivers in public?”. Yes but it’s irrelevant, I do not see a problem, Kimi deserved to cop it, he wears it and everyone moves on. It’s only armchair experts making a big thing of it.

            David Coulthard has explained of some woppers that used to flow via the McLaren radio, I know they weren’t broadcast, if that’s an issue for you and others like you, then blame the broadcaster for choosing to air it.

          2. This wasn’t such a small thing, according to the French press Kimi and Permane continued to fight in the hostility area where everyone could see it.
            Again this would have been a great opportunity for Permane to discuss the issue behind closed doors, rather then fighting with his driver in public.

            So you dont have any examples then? Dont you find it in the least bit strange? If this suppose to be such a normal thing, why doesn’t anyone have other examples of senior personal screaming at their drivers in public?

      2. If the employee has been stupid the manager has the right to raise the voice to drive the point through the thick skull.

        1. Sure and he can do it behind closed doors not in public.

          Where exactly was Kimi so stupid, Grosjean tried to overtake him in a fast coner while barely had working brakes and his car was sliding. Grosjean could also have tried to find a better spot.

          1. @angelia don’t even bother trying to discuss this issue with the kimi-haters, especially the biggest kimi-hater-of-them-all, @keithcollantine. Rest assured that if it was any driver other than Kimi who was being subjected to verbal abuse in front of a global TV audience, despite also not having been paid any of the wages owed him by his employer, keith would be the first one to write an editorial lamenting the situation.

          2. @joepa I didn’t consider the comment “abuse” for reasons already explained. As always I’m happy to discuss the facts but I’m not going to waste my time on silly things like being called a ‘Kimi hater’ or being accused of hypocrisy on hypothetical grounds.

  22. I would love to see how people would have reacted if it was Helmut Marko screaming at Webber to get out of Vettel’s way or if Domenicalli was screaming at Massa to get out of Alonso’s way. But even second drivers are not treated like this by senior team personal.

    1. Helmut Marko, Stefano Domenicalli and Alan Permane all have very different roles within their respective teams. Not sure what point you’re trying to make with that statement.

      1. They are all senior team members. The point is that there is no reason the handle to handle a situation where one teammate has to pass the other in such a way. It was Permane’s fault that Kimi was there to begin with.
        When Massa was told to let Alonso pass the team handled it delicately. When Webber was told to let Vettel pass in Brasil last year they asked him, and didn’t comply. There was championship at stake but the team didn’t scream at Webber.
        In Germany this year when Grosjean was asked to let Kimi pass he took 5 laps to do it, and no one had any issue with that. Permane certainly didn’t scream at him.

        Give me example of how often do you hear senior team members screaming at drivers in public? I would like to see it, if this was such an ordinary everyday event.

        1. if the team wanted to avoid another “Leave me alone, I know what i’m doing moment,” they had to bring their point across in a stronger way. they did. Permane didn’t say “Hey, ******, move out of the way.” he emphasized urgency in the passion of the moment. and that’s fine in sports.

          now, you keep talking about some unspecific work environments, seemingly asking to compare the situation to everyday office jobs. this is ridiculous. F1 is a supersport – the grand combination of show-business and top-tier sports entertainment. anywhere you look in these areas, you’ll see strong language used in the heat of the moment, exchanged between ‘senior members’ and ‘personnel’ – stars/managers, actors/producers/directors, team owners/players, etc. often time we are talking about millionaires arguing – it’s all acceptable FOR THEM. i could understand this point, if Kimi was suddenly offended and spearheaded the office anti-bullying movement. but he’s quite fine with the entire thing and is likely already passed it, being concerned with the money issue and all…

          i wonder what would Ron or Flavio say…

  23. First off, I’m not a huge Kimi fan.

    Initially I thought Kimi was in the wrong, but rewatching things, I don’t think Kimi was trying to be overly aggressive in the corner. If you watch, he totally loses traction on his tires, and for the rest of that lap and the next one he’s basically driving on ice and barely keeping it on the road.

    It also sounded like in his next set of messages is that he was trying to find a could place to pull to let Grojean through.

    Also, in his career, Kimi’s never had issues of being passive aggressive towards his team. He’s not out there deliberately trying to muck things up for his teammate. He’s many things, but that doesn’t seem to be the way Kimi operates.

    And if anyone had reason to be frustrated, it is Kimi. With brake issues, being left out with tires that had already fallen straight off the cliff and were dead, etc.

    You know, Red Bull gets slammed, but constantly we hear how RB will pit Webber to get out of Vettel’s way (whether true or not, it’s a good way to do it). Ferrari has done that to Massa. Lotus SHOULD have done that with Kimi. Before that incident, with Kimi losing 2 plus seconds a lap, they should have pulled him in for fresh rubber and there would not have been an incident. But Lotus probably got greedy hoping for Kimi to hang on somehow for an even higher finish.

    Permane didn’t look good. I’m glad Lotus apologized. I have more respect for them. We admire drivers for raising their hands when they make mistakes, so should we admire teams for doing the same.

    1. If Kimi didn’t want to be aggressive in defending his position he shouldn’t be driving on the inside (defensive) line of the corner. If he left the inside line for RG he would have been overtaken without the risk of collision and as a benefit would’ve have a better exit speed off the corner loosing less time to Massa and the other cars behind.

  24. it is good that Kimi is going to Ferrari – this screaming as Pemane held on the team radio does not fit into Formula One .. addition that it was he who was responsible for the non-existent strategy in India. !! ??

  25. I’m beginning to think the apologies came because the initial swearing by Permane was predicted on Kimi purposefully fighting for position against his teammate, and after the race and the debrief, realizing that Kimi actually wasn’t doing that. So Permane had egg on his face. Lotus as a team did.

    1. Isn’t it?

  26. Ha! Yelling at someone who you owe some 10M$ is not a good idea anyway.

  27. Kimi should Qualify atleast 12th for the rest of the season, and finish a max 8th. That would teach the potty mouth clowns some manners.

    1. NO WAY! Better for him to keep scoring as many points as possible: Lotus team owe him 50,000euro per point!!

  28. people don’t get a simple thing.
    it’s not the sweraing itself, u say “sorry” and it’s over…it can happen.
    it’s that everybody saw why raikkonen immediately became number 2 driver in favour of gros.
    now everybody has another prove of it.
    and don’t get me wrong. they don’t sabotage kimi as they didn’t sabotage romain before…simply inverted number one and 2 driver.
    lotus once said “in our team there’s no number one and two driver.” implying that both have same materials and opportunities…what a lie! romain and kimi have totallly different driving style…how could they accomplish to satisfy both of them?if one is favored, the other one suffers.
    lotus deceived tons of fans by stating untrue things. they DO have number one and two drivers just like the majority of teams. wake up!!
    now of course they want romain to take the majority of points and place kimi somewhere in the top ten…there is a big difference between a second place and even a fourth place in terms of points.
    why do they act like that?because romain has a fixed salary, without bonus. they aren’t able to pay raikkonen’s past salaries…how could they manage to pay him 20 points per race(60000 eu per point)?

    moreover they have to show sponsors that even romain is a number one top driver and lotus can do well also without kimi.
    normal things which has happened tons of times in f1 which is a money based sport. we have seen many scandals in recent years and many others surely happened without we even know about them. forget talent.
    if u look for pure talents to be protected then watch some other sports like athletics.

  29. As far as I can remember, Lotus didn’t take that well the fact that Raikkonen talked about the money issue or the fact that he’s switching teams. I think that the team radio message got blown out of proportion due to this context.

    Of course it was on the spur of the moment, I can understand that, but the apology is welcome in this case. After all Lotus is the employer that doesn’t pay the employee… It’s not about how much money Raikkonen already has, it’s about principle.

  30. Can someone please help me out. What exactly did Kimi answer? I have tried in vain to find out.

  31. I am not really shocked by what happened with Raikkonen, nor was I shocked by his response. Whether it was right or wrong is a matter of opinion, but Kimi knows his days at Lotus are finished. The championship is finished, and next year he can concentrate on making his return to Ferrari. Permane won’t be bothered either, he knows Raikkonen won’t be there in 2014.
    This was always going to happen once Raikkonen’s move to Ferrari had been made official, and that was the best part of two months ago now. It is natural that Lotus would support Grosjean, a driver who they now see as their future #1, over a driver who is leaving to one of their biggest rivals at the end of the season. The same happened last year with Lewis Hamilton. Once McLaren knew he was going, that was it! Their only concern after that was Jenson Button, the man they knew they were keeping. Same as always.
    It is regrettable that this exchange was broadcast live, but that is how the cookie crumbles. The same people who are complaining now about the swearing are often the same people who complain about the lack of passion in F1.
    We don’t need robots in this sport, we need all the passionate people we can get. I personally loved Vettel’s burnout at the end of the Indian Grands Prix, but it was so F1 wasn’t it that he was punished for it by the stewards.

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