Sebastian Vettel, Mark Webber, Red Bull, Yas Marina, 2013

Vettel will win seven titles “no problem” – Webber

F1 Fanatic Round-up

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Sebastian Vettel, Mark Webber, Red Bull, Yas Marina, 2013In the round-up: Mark Webber believes Sebastian Vettel will equal Michael Schumacher’s seven world championship titles.


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As Webber reaches his F1 swansong, he reflects on his 12-year career (and fiery time with Vettel) (Daily Mail)

“‘Seb?s phenomenal, a very tough act,’ admitted Webber, unhesitatingly. ‘I think he will reach Michael Schumacher?s total of seven championships, no problem.’ Webber also insisted Vettel?s dominance was not solely attributable to the genius of Red Bull design guru, Adrian Newey.”

Racism is a big deal in racing, says F1 champ Lewis Hamilton (Hindustan Times)

“My dad used to go and meet potential sponsors when I was younger and ask whether they would like to back a non-white driver and they used to laugh at him. Now that attitude has changed. I hope there will be many more non-white drivers on the grid now, including those from India.”

Magnussen favourite for McLaren seat (Autosport)

“With McLaren having made it clear for months that Perez’s consistency was its main concern, it is understood that the outfit was unimpressed about how [Sergio Perez’s] race in Abu Dhabi compared to that of Jenson Button, who had been forced to pit for a new nose early on.”


Comment of the day

One of many reactions to Kimi Raikkonen’s decision to miss the last two races of the year.

As a Kimi fan going to COTA I’m devastated.
Theo Parkinson (@Theo-hrp)

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Brendan and Catalina!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Vittorio Brambilla was born on this day in 1937. He attained F1 immortality by scoring his only win in a rain-shortened Austrian Grand Prix in 1975, then crashing as he raised his arms in celebration.

It came in his second of three seasons with March after which he made an unproductive move to Surtees. His final F1 starts came with Alfa Romeo in 1980.

Brambilla passed away at his home in Milan in 2001.

Image ?? Red Bull/Getty

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  • 106 comments on “Vettel will win seven titles “no problem” – Webber”

    1. Vittorio Brambilla was born on this day in 1973. He attained F1 immortality by scoring his only win in a rain-shortened Austrian Grand Prix in 1975, then crashing as he raised his arms in celebration.

      I thought Vettel was the youngest GP winner…

      1. @keithcollantine must be asleep, @hunocsi lol (!!!)

        Vittorio Brambilla was born on this day in 1973. He attained F1 immortality by scoring his only win in a rain-shortened Austrian Grand Prix in 1975, then crashing as he raised his arms in celebration.

        I thought Vettel was the youngest GP winner…

      2. Kvyat and Serotkin have got nothing on this guy!!

      3. @hunocsi Apologies for the typo, it’s been fixed.

        1. No problem, it was quite amusing! :)

    2. Vittorio Brambilla was born on this day in 1973. He attained F1 immortality by scoring his only win in a rain-shortened Austrian Grand Prix in 1975, then crashing as he raised his arms in celebration.

      Did Vittorio Brambilla win a race at the age of two? ;-)

    3. @keithcollantine Small typo in the date of the “on this day”. You have Brambilla winning his grand prix at 2 years of age. That would truly have been an immortal performance ;)

      1. Nah, he just grew up really quickly, like the Stig :-)

        1. Some say that he is only 2 years old… and that he has a KERS system in his nappy.

          1. I heard his pram has DRS :)

    4. Chris (@tophercheese21)
      11th November 2013, 0:44

      Even though there is only three articles, they were all really interesting!

    5. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      11th November 2013, 0:45

      Nice interview with Mark – obviously he has great respect for Seb despite their differences. I can’t say that the opposite is true.

      I really hope he wins one of the 2 last races before he leaves F1 to Lemans. I’ll be watching Lemans with much more interest next year.

      Nice to hear him say nice thing about Lewis and about talks with other drivers.

        1. Political / public talk from Vettels side. Sorry guys, but I’m sure he doesn’t have that much of respect for Webber, certainly not as much as Webber has towards him.

          1. Because Webber hasn’t earned as much respect as Vettel. I’m sure Seb respects Mark as a person, a teammate and a good driver, but it’s Vettel who has won four world championships and consistently beats Webber by a large margin.

          2. Sorry guys, but I’m sure he doesn’t have that much of respect for Webber, certainly not as much as Webber has towards him.

            And you know that exactly how, ah, yes, just because there has to be just one more reason to hate him

            1. I understand that, but let’s be honest; Malaysia-12 and Turkey-10 are just one of more (not *many* though!) examples were Vet have been downright disgusting against Web. And from what I’ve heard from several blogs and podcasts, Vet isn’t that “smiley boy” when the cameras are turned away, he’s extremely focused and willing to go even too far to get what he wants. Ofcourse you can counter with Brazil-12 and SIlverstone for instance – but remember Vet has had the upper hand in the team since about mid 09, psychologically and on-track, also with the backing of some strong people. <- That's common knowledge.

            2. @il-ferrarista

              And from what I’ve heard from several blogs and podcasts, Vet isn’t that “smiley boy” when the cameras are turned away

              I saw it on the Internet so it must be true!

              And i can’t understand the second part of your comment. How team status of number 1 driver makes it immoral two fight for position with your team mate, but if you are number 2 is ok to ignore and fight to the end.

            3. @il-ferrarista: here’s a bit of information about how Vettel is “when the camera’s are turned away”:
              I do wonder what blogs and podcasts you’re referring to. He’s focused, ofcourse, but all I hear of how he is as a person is confirmed by this article.

              I don’t believe Vettel has had the psychological upper hand since as early as 2009, and Webber has also had the backing of strong people – notably the real man in charge, Mateschitz (this is also common knowledge).

              So yes, let’s be honest: both of them have behaved badly at times and I certainly wouldn’t say Webber is that much more of a gentleman than Vettel. Furthermore I think it’s a bit unfair to take what Webber says (about respecting Vettel) as the truth and then take what Vettel says as insincere political talk.

            4. @oletros It’s important to remember that there are people commenting on this site who know Vettel *very* well and who are always able to clarify when he’s being insincere, what type of person he truly is deep down inside, etc. It’s best not to even bother questioning how they know. You should just feel privileged that we are able to benefit from their knowledge and leave it at that!

            5. @il-ferrarista Akibsi has also had the upper hand in Ferrari and has been “disgusting” to Massa too, but ON THE TRACK. When these guys are on the track, they have to behave this way. It’s not a coincidence both Seb and Alo are champions. And if they have some special treatment in their teams, they have earned it with lots of hard work.

              he’s extremely focused and willing to go even too far to get what he wants

              You can say the same about Alonso, and it’s not bad. You may not like their “I’m the best” attitude but they are the top notch of F1 now. They have earned it.

            6. @il-ferrarista
              That “Me first” attitude is something incredibly important in an F1 driver.
              Like it or not, it’s a part of what make an F1 champion.
              While Vettel has been involved in controversial events, it is nowhere near what for instance Schumacher, Alonso, Prost or Senna has been involved in.
              In that respect Vettel is a mere schoolboy in comparison.

            7. @ridiculous akibsi = alonso (when it’s dark and I can’t see the keyboard :P)

          3. @il-ferrarista everything you and I hear about F1 is PR talk – unless you work in the sport.

    6. McLaren probably have reasons to doubt about Perez, but… I’m still not convinced about it. I maintain that it’s not like Button won a world championship and Perez failed to score…

      1. I agree. I think it’d be a joke if McLaren replaced him. They’ve not given him a chance to shine with this years car. It would be an understatement to describe the 2013 car as a dog. It’s not even like Button has done anything with it either, he’s had maybe 2 or 3 good races. I can recall numerous times where Perez has put one over on Button too, so if Perez has done so badly it warrants being fired – then how to they ignore the fact that Button is getting overtaken by him half the time… I think Jensen is relatively safe simply because of his 2011 season and his ‘lucked-into-it’ champion status. He’s a good driver, but no better than Webber or Massa in my opinion. Definitely part of the B team.

        1. I think you kind of reveal in your post why McLaren want to drop Perez… Button is a solid “B Team” driver and Perez has not only failed to beat him, but has not really matched him on a consistent basis. He’s currently slugging it out for 10th place in the championship with Hulk and the Force Indias whilst Jenson is 25 points ahead of him.

          I think, truth be told, McLaren have a long history of winning races and know what a future champion looks like… And perhaps they’ve concluded Perez doesn’t look like one. He had his moments in 2012 when tyre strategy went his way but I thought Hulkenburg or even di Resta looked more promising over the whole season. I’m pretty ambivalent about it really -maybe he does deserve another year but McLaren have got great form in promoting young talent (Hakkinen, Raikkonen & Hamilton spring to mind) so personally would be very excited to see Magnussen next year – let’s hope he’s not the flop his similarly gifted dad was though!

        2. Oh be sure, Jenson Button is much better than Massa, and a generally more complete driver than Webber. He is not a WC without reason, bet Barrichello fair and square for example, and was up there with Lewis Hamilton (2011 and maybe -10). As quick as Webber (with a good car), much more reliable and error-free than both Web and Mas, and much better in treacherous conditions.

          All in all, he’s a little Prost imho (yes that was a little radical, but if I were a team owner I would sign him anytime (next to another ace))

        3. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Button has nearly DOUBLE the amount of points as Perez, and that’s with the last 2 races, where he was on for a good result through strategy, being ruined by first lap damage.

          Yes, the McLaren is a dog and NEITHER of them have shone in the championship, but first and foremost you are measured against your team mate, the only guy driving the same car as you – and by this measure Perez has NOT done well.

          After all, a lot of the people on this site continually tell us how crap and slow Button is, yet he is outscoring Perez by nearly double and now you are telling us that Perez is not doing too bad??? Really?

          I don’t hate Perez at all, but really not sure he was the best for the job. If it was me, Hulkenburg would have been in that seat. The fact that for 2014 he has AGAIN been overlooked by McLaren is a disgrace!

          Not sure what Magnussen is like, but he looked bloody quick during testing! If it was me and I wasn’t going to go with Hulk, I’d give him a shot!

          1. Half the points of his teammate, who is a WC and has been with the team since ’10. I’d say that’s not so bad. If given another season, I think Perez should be there or thereabouts on the points tally of Jenson. We’ve come to expect drivers to slot in another car and compare well to a WC in his first year. Not everyone has the same adjustment rate. I’m not saying he’s great, I’m saying that he should be given the chance to show he’s at least on par with Jenson. @nick101

          2. @gicu
            I disagree. McLaren aren’t looking for another Jenson. They have one all ready.
            They need a driver who can stand his ground in a straight fight against the likes of Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel. If Perez was that guy, he would have shown us by now.

      2. McLaren had an unexpected vacancy and filled it with the 1st. guy who came along, who knows what promises and deals might have been made, there might have been lucrative sponsorships that failed to happen, there might have been performance gaurantees on both or either side that failed to be met. From my disinterested point of view Checo seems to either cruise politely around or go through the field like a wrecking ball with his team mate being one of the first victims, he may have found a middle ground but not successfully enough for me to notice.

      3. Frankly I still don’t know why they signed him in the first place. He is a solid driver but not really the next Hamilton or Vettel, so I would understand if they go for somebody else.

    7. Yes (@come-on-kubica)
      11th November 2013, 0:50

      I don’t really understand McLaren’s logic for dropping checo. He had an average race in Abu Dhabi, so lets drop him. Button had more pace because he was running in clean air for most of the race. Checo qualified better than Button and still scored points in the race. The only car that was ahead of him that could be considered slower was the Force India. I saw worse performances from Button last year in a much quicker McLaren, i hope this decision backfires on McLaren.

      1. Not a big Perez fan, but it seems like there is something going on behind the scenes at McLaren. Magnussen seems like a promising young driver and McLaren must want him on the team really bad. Or, for some reason after defending him all season, they do not want Perez.

      2. I agree, I can’t understand the logic and hopefully the story isn’t true.
        Even if Perez’s pace was average, at least he got points for the team. What about Button going into di Resta at the first corner, which can happen when you qualify in the middle of the pack? It’s OK to damage your front wing now is it, as long as you have decent pace afterwards but still don’t score?

        1. @deej92What about Button going into di Resta at the first corner

          whataboutery isn’t going to find much traction here, especially not when you slag-off Button…

      3. If I were Button I would be crapping myself, if they’re willing to drop Sergio for a rookie, they can just as easily drop Button for Alonso in 2015 if rumours are to be believed.

        1. Who’s to say that Button wouldn’t drop McLaren in 2015 if they don’t shape up???

          1. @joepa

            Who’s to say that Button wouldn’t drop McLaren in 2015 if they don’t shape up???

            That has got to be one of the funniest statements I’ve seen recently. I’m sure Jenson is hot property on the driver market.. I mean Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull are all gunning for a devastatingly quick Jenson Button

            1. @todfod actually, you’d think he is. Button might not be on the same level as Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso, but he’s quick enough to keep them honest. Button brings home the points with solid performances. I’d dare to say that if Ferrari had signed up Button in one of the last few years, they would’ve won the WCC at least once.

            2. Actually it’s a well known fact that Red Bull,Ferrari and Mercedes are after Jensons’ signature ,so no it isn’t a funny statement.

      4. The logic is simple. Perez has been mediocre this year, nothing more. He has raised his game a little but generally he has shown poorly against last years Mclaren No.2 driver.

        This coupled with the fact that in Magnussen Mclaren feel they could have the next Hamilton on their hands and if they don’t give him a seat he could slip through their fingers their hand is starting to look a little forced.

        1. Yes (@come-on-kubica)
          11th November 2013, 23:01

          But Button hasn’t exactly set the world on fire. He’s made mistakes supposedly with all the experience. I can’t see why they wouldn’t at least give him another year in an improved car, Checo’s starting to find some consistent points scoring form too. Magnussen might be the most fantastic talent ever, but what if he flops next year do they drop him immediately. Jenson didn’t make it for a number of years and perez is still only 23.

    8. All that article in the Daily Mail. Come on, mate… Maybe the reactions were good, but a race is a race and it’s not finished until the flag. I really, really, doubt Malaysia had anything to do with Vettel’s popularity. Had it been the other way round (Webber beating Vettel after the team orders), people would’ve loved it.

      People’s beliefs towards Vettel go beyond Malaysia 2013… they boo him because they boo him. And it’s still very, very wrong.

      1. Yep, and I predict the booing to come back in the US and Brazil where there will actually be fans, not just empty grandstands or people who have never even seen an F1 race on TV before.

        1. While I also expect booing to be back in the next two races, should he make the podium “where there will actually be fans, not just empty grandstands or people who have never even seen an F1 race on TV before.” I don’t understand this. Except Korea, in the other three races since Singapore the stands weren’t empty and are you suggesting those crowd didn’t boo Vettel because they were ‘people who had never even seen an F1 race on TV before’, so didn’t know what they were watching? Couldn’t it be due to culture differences?

          1. I agree about the culture, but also when there’s so few real fans among the crowd they just can’t start booing without embarrassing themselves, but when the number increases it becomes easier to yell and remain anonymous.
            I will say though, that Japan is a clear example that fans can be both passionate and respectful at the same time.

            1. @mantresx – what bothers me a bit, is that you use ‘real fans’. I know there are different kinds of fans but who’s to say what’s real.

            2. @mantresx Are you suggesting that real fans only reside in Europe? Might want to check out where I’m from and argue with my wife, or my friends, or my work colleagues that I’m not a real fan…

            3. When “real fans” are booing and complaining about everything, and “fake fans” are enjoying the race and admire the drivers as long as they try to give their best, i’ll prefer to be fake everyday . @mantresx

        2. I agree with @shena, @mantresx. Specially at Suzuka, hardcore fans there, they didn’t boo Seb at all. They love him.

          I don’t have an explanation towards the booing. It all started at Silverstone, which is odd enough, since I believe brits are probably the most polite fans there is. And it kept on going…

          1. The true motorsport fans are . They give well informed criticism without attacking the character of a person . The rest just do not appreciate the true meaning of being a fan of motorsport. What is sad is that these people being targeted have achieved more in such a short time than the hecklers will achieve in a lifetime.

      2. @fer-no65 I think what Malaysia did was to entrench what people already believed about Vettel. Those who already thought he was a real racer saw it as a real racer’s move, and those who already believed him to be ruthless to the point of being unsporting saw their view being vindicated as well.

        I come closer to the latter view as I felt waiting for your teammate to turn his engine down before attacking showed a lack of sportsmanship. But then I also believed it was unsporting, for instance, to ask for the race to be stopped in Korea 2010 because his engine was about to blow. So it just reinforced what I already thought of Vettel.

        1. I think its only fair to say that both drivers are equally guilty of unsportsmanlike conduct in the past. Webber unsportsmanlike antics are evident during Silverstone 11 and Brazil 12. I personally feel that what happened in Brazil was a bigger travesty as compared to Malaysia since it was a WDC decider race.

          BTW, the Vettel booing started back in Australia 13, a race prior to Malaysia, before muti21. But let bygones be bygones and hopefully people can get over the multi21 saga because its getting a wee tiresome especially when you look at the big picture

    9. Wow, I got comment of the day for such a short comment.

      1. Short and in this case bittersweet. I would love to be going to COTA, but would also want to see Kimi there too.

    10. I can’t believe that Mclaren are going for Magnussen, if they do great Perez was never a prospect to begin with, that said I would still give him a 2nd year and put Magnussen beside Perez, if Perez seat was never for the money why such a 360º. McLaren gave up talent for sponsorship and then give up sponsorship for talent?! Guess, Ron Dennis is not around.

    11. “Only a £50,000 injection of cash from Australian rugby maverick David Campese, an old playing friend of Webber’s Dad, Alan, kept his career on track in 1997.”

      I never knew that, nice to see a bit of interaction between my two favorite sports!

    12. Hamilton:“I hope there will be many more non-white drivers on the grid now…”
      I know that Hamilton is also black but isn’t that still a racist comment?

      1. He’s mixed, actually, his mother is white.

      2. It’s only racism if such comments are made by a white person. The other “shades” can speak as they please.

        1. @mrtn I think Hamilton is perhaps trying to raise the issue that there aren’t many non-white driver in motorsport, which is a fair comment that isn’t type casting or making derogatory remarks against a group of people and is factually accurate. I wouldn’t class this racist.

          if you wanted and example of a racist comment, look at Sherlock, who is type casting and is being derogatory to anyone other than white people.

      3. Chris (@tophercheese21)
        11th November 2013, 8:11

        It is racist, but it’s not offensive. He’s just pointing out that black people are a very small minority in Formula 1 (which is true).

        If he were saying: “There shouldn’t be so many white people in Formula One”, then it’s offensive. haha.

        1. @tophercheese21 Racism generally has a sense of discrimination based on perceived inferiority, and I don’t see that here.

      4. That’s like saying Martin Luther King is racist

        1. What about more white Indians?

      5. Steph (@stephanief1990)
        11th November 2013, 12:07

        Racism against white people in the UK is non existent/laughable/not worth even mentioning. It’s a bit like when people complain there should be a “White History Month”.

      6. @mrtn – that’s the problem with racism – it’s born out of prejudice and the urge to generalize people into a small number of groups in an attempt to simplify ones interaction with the environment – it’s a one of our fundamental traits. During the attempt to overcome this shortcoming we still continue to label things by calling them either racist or non-racist, which stalls progress on this topic.

        What Lewis mentioned is the fact that there is less diversity in F1 – which is true – and pointing it out in a non offensive way is a good thing – because we are now talking about it :)

      7. No, that’s not racism. He just wants more non-whites because F1 lacks racial diversity for a number o reasons. It’s a issue worth discussing from someone from a minority.

    13. Steph (@stephanief1990)
      11th November 2013, 7:36

      I’m glad to read Hamilton’s thoughts and experiences on racism in the sport. Obviously I wish he had never gone through that but we need drivers to speak up for equality. It’s vital to eliminate discriminate within the sport (and there is a huge amount) and give kids and drivers equal opportunity because only then will we have a truly competitive grid. Right now all of the drivers are almost all of the same mould, the same white, Western, male, straight, cisgender, non disabled and rmiddle class. I can’t even imagine a time where we will have an openly transgender driver. Getting a gay/bi driver or another man of colour to race feels possible but not likely within the next few years and there’s no real signs we’ll have a woman racing driver any time soon. We’ve had the odd disabled driver – such as Jackie Stewart- but they are few are far between too and it is absolutely possible for people with certain disabilities to compete.

      F1 has a serious problem but it also isn’t helped by the prejudices of other countries. It’s still pretty Eurocentric and Europe still has massive problems. The UK is the most unequal country in the West meaning that only rich kids get to play with the cars. This limits the chances of black kids of even getting near a car never mind being turned away by racists because in the UK black people are far more likely to be born into poverty than be born into the affluent middle class. Italy, the home of the biggest racing team there is, has a serious race problem seen by immigration debates and the fact that an MP had bananas thrown at her. If we turn to Texas we can look at Perry who is pretty fond of having people executed- it was once famously said that African Americans first had to deal with “there was slavery, then they have lynchings and now they have the death penalty” given how often it was used against black people and not white Americans who committed the same/similar crimes. Thenthere’s the East – Malaysia has sent out leaflets to parents to tell them how to spot if their kids are gay, bisexual or transgender (I’ve no idea what parents are supposed to do if they suspect that of their child but I bet it isn’t to reward them with a go kart session) and gay men have been injected with hormones in Abu Dhabi in recent years in an effort to turn them straight. Of course, one of our newest GPs might be Sochi where LGBT are being hounded and persecuted by the state, police and “vigilante groups”.

      It’ll be hard for F1 to increase diversity when the markets it goes to won’t do anything to support it either and as F1 only rocks up to some countries once a year its impact will be limited. Football has some okay ish anti racism and anti homophobia campaigns which F1 should adopt – albeit if anyone mentions that in Sochi they might end up in prison. However, most motorsport teams are based in the UK which does have equality laws protecting against discrimination. It would be the easiest place to start with the biggest obvious gains to be made as the next generation of motorsport could be completely diverse. It won’t happen, as it’ll take too much commitment to an issue the FIA hasn’t been bothered about but it’s nice to dream of a grid where the people racing are there only because they genuinely are quick and not because they were in a random 1% of the types of people that we approve of.

      1. It won’t happen, as it’ll take too much commitment to an issue the FIA hasn’t been bothered about but it’s nice to dream of a grid where the people racing are there only because they genuinely are quick and not because they were in a random 1% of the types of people that we approve of.

        Honestly dude, what planet are you on??? You think ANYONE is on the F1 grid purely because they are the ‘type of people that we approve of’???

        A few of them are there because they are the best drivers in the world, but sadly a lot of them are there now because they have the most money – sad but true.

        As for the rest of your post, what a load of tosh!

        You’re talking about F1 as if it’s a sport played by Millions around the world!!!

        It’s F1 for crying out loud – there’s only 22 F1 drivers IN THE ENTIRE WORLD and you’re saying it has a problem with racism and discrimination because there’s only 1 non white driver and no people with disabilities.

        A R E Y O U K I D D I N G?????

        Honestly, people like you who think non whites and people with disabilities should be GIVEN these advantages and opportunities just because of who they are, what condition they have and what colour their skin is, are in fact the racists and unfair!

        Guess what, I’m white, able bodied and from a middle class family and I’m not in F1 even though I would love to be. Neither are ANY of my mates, all of whom are from the same demographic. Maybe I should cry foul too!

        I LOVE Mclaren’s, Ferrari’s, Lamborghini’s, mansion houses and beautiful yachts, but I don’t have them. Why? Because I can’t afford them. What should I do about it? Well, according to you I should just have a tantrum and demand that it be changed so I can have it to – even if I don’t deserve it. Oh no, hold on, I’m a white, middle class, straight, able bodied male so I don’t have the right to do that do I?

        Guess what pal, F1 is an elite sport, therefore only the elite get there – the best drivers with the most money. That’s life so build a bridge and get over it!

        If you want a society where everything is equal and everyone has the same things, I believe the type of society you are looking for is called communist. I believe there’s still a few of them around – knock yourself out!

        1. Steph (@stephanief1990)
          11th November 2013, 12:18

          @nick101 First, yes because only a tiny percentage of the world gets to be in the position to race. I’m not even wealth and yet I’m in the top 5% of the wealthiest in this world because I’m in the UK and I’m a student. You have to be rich to have a chance at this career or at least have backing and if you look at the people being backed they’re all exactly the same. Look at the UK’s parliament for the most glaringly obvious example of wealth dominating the top jobs, the most prestigious careers.

          I’m not asking for anyone to be given an advantage – that’s the point. I’m asking for the advantages to be stripped away and for everything to be equal. I see why that might be threatening to some but I’m not that fussed by their insecurities.

          Also, people like me? All you know is that I have an avatar of Massa so I’m quite interested to know what conclusions you’ve drawn.

          That doesn’t mean anything. There are a whole number of factors needed to be in F1 (I wouldn’t want it frankly) but those who fit into certain minority groups will never have a chance. It’s about opporunity.

          It sounds like you are having a bit of a tantrum, to be fair.

          I’m not your pal.

          We have very different definitions of “elite”. “Elite” to me should mean “the best”, not “the most fortunate”.

          I do want a society where everything is fair. These comments are quite entertaining, the other day on the India thread I was accused of not caring about the poor and now I’m a communist as if that’s the greatest insult ever. It’s quite amusing that somehow wanting everyone to have a fair shot and wanting the sport to be about the most talented is deemed worthy of such a vitriolic diatribe.

          1. I’m not asking for anyone to be given an advantage – that’s the point. I’m asking for the advantages to be stripped away and for everything to be equal.

            Honestly mate, what planet do you live on?

            I know, let’s all skip through the daisies holding hands and being friends!

            Next thing you know you’ll want nothing to ever be stored on a shelf any higher than 2 feet off the ground. That way EVERYONE could reach everything and the evil tall people won’t have an unfair advantage!

            but those who fit into certain minority groups will never have a chance. It’s about opporunity.

            Sorry, but once again – TOTAL CRAP!

            Everyone has 24 hours in the day and air in their lungs. If someone wants something bad enough, they’ll make it happen. It’s the very reason some people are multi billionaires and a lot of people aren’t.

            Do you think that the Millionaires and Billionaires in life have just been given what they have? OK, sure, some of them would have inherited their fortunes, but a large number of them have earned it through hard work, dedication and determination.

            Will it be easier for some to achieve than others? Of course, but EVERYONE has a chance.

            Will someone with no arms and no legs ever drive an F1 car? Probably not. Will someone who is a quadriplegic ever drive an F1 car? Probably not. Will someone with down syndrome ever drive an F1 car? Probably not.

            It sucks, but that’s life. Some things you are capable of and some things you aren’t.

            It’s high time people of this world, able bodied or not, black or white, rich or poor, realise what they have and accept it. If they don’t want to accept it, do something about it – other than moan that the world owes you a favour!

            1. @nick101

              Will someone with no arms and no legs ever drive an F1 car? Probably not. Will someone who is a quadriplegic ever drive an F1 car? Probably not. Will someone with down syndrome ever drive an F1 car? Probably not.

              All of those are impairments that would obviously affect someone’s ability to physically drive a Formula 1 car. Being black or (for example) LGBT is not a physical impairment, so your tirade is irrelevant as well as unhinged.

            2. @red-andy

              You specifically mentioned people with disabilities in your original post.

            3. And another thing @red-andy, I’m an F1 fan first and foremost and just want to see the best drivers in the world on track, regardless of their skin colour or sexual preference. For you to say that F1 should have more black, gay, dissabled etc. drivers just because they don’t fit into the ‘approved’ demographic is just absurd!

              And FYI there is at least 1 gay driver already on the grid. I’ll let you work it out who it is.

            4. @nick101 It wasn’t “my” original post. Your arguments would be all the more persuasive if you paid attention.

            5. @red-andy

              You are correct, it was ‘the’ original post, not ‘your’ original post.

              Everything I have said and my argument is therefore invalid.

              Well played sir.

      2. Chris (@tophercheese21)
        11th November 2013, 14:21

        I don’t think anyone in Formula One is there just because they fit the demographic you highlighted.
        They’re there because they’re the best in the world at what they do. If there’s a black woman who is an aerodynamicist ofthe calibre of Adrian Newey, then she’d have been snapped up long ago.

        Hypothetically, if there were a gay, black disabled woman in Formula 1, I would only support it if she made it there on merit. If she is given a job there simply because she’s a minority, then I disapprove. You have to be good at what you do, if not then you’re not going to make it. And the same goes for anyone who fits the demographic of white middle aged man, in the middle class, if they’re not good enough then they won’t fit in the puzzle.

        I would love to see a more diverse Formula One, but it can only happen if the diversity are the best in the world at their profession.

        1. Ah, but how do they get there? Discrimination happens all the way through, and it’s most indiduous and hardest to stop at the very beginning: the blond-haired, blue-eyed boy racers get karting sponsorships more easily than girls or minorities, which Hamilton experienced and noted, so they’re the ones who can continue their careers until they’re among the best. Result: all white, male F1 prospects. The black female engineering graduates are passed over when they apply for jobs (see all the studies where researchers send out identical CV’s with different names) so the trained aerodynamicists are mostly white or asian men. It’s a lot harder to get to the top when every step is stacked against you.

          1. This is not just a problem in F1, let’s be clear!

        2. @nick101 is right – at least according to Martin Brundle’s book – there was at least one gay driver on the grid. The book does not say who however and given the timescale I the line up has changed.

    14. Here’s something I would love to see, it’s extremely unlikely but here it is. In Brazil if Vettel and Webber are running 1-2 in the dying moments of the race, Vettel moves aside to let Webber take the win. That would be absolutely lovely. You want the booing to stop, Seb? There’s your ticket my friend, an act of contrition that nobody could ignore.

      1. As Schummi and Senna before him…

      2. +1.

        This little fella, named Vettel, should give 1 away for free. That would be sweet indeed !

        1. He won’t spoil his run to record of most victories. C’mon he sounds so sad when someone else get’s fastest lap and you expect him to move aside for Webber, because of “respect”.

          Vettel is aclassic example onf “listen to my words, don’t whatch my action” – “enourmos respect” for Webber in Malaysia forced him to pass Mark and provide cover from wind for the ol’matey….

        2. I don’t think Webber will want any presents from Vettel. He even remarked after scoring his first pole position of the season in Japan that it was a hollow victory as Vettel had a KERS problem.

          I don’t like the idea of drivers gifting wins, and especially in this case it would feel patronising to me. I would like to see someone else than Vettel win a race this season, and I certainly would like to see Mark score another, but I don’t want to see Vettel moving aside for him.

      3. @celicadion23
        And really, what would that mean?
        It would be completely hollow. To him, to us. God, I would hate to be in a grandstand in Brazil and see a driver win a race, because he… was about to retire?
        That isn’t winning. And it certainly isn’t racing.
        If he was returning the favour for being gifted a win earlier in the year, then it would at least have a value. Sort of “You gave me your muffin when I was hungry, I’ll buy you a new one!”.
        Instead of “you can’t bake a muffin? I’ll do it for you, and when mom comes home you can say you made it.”

        1. I was thinking more “I took your muffin when we were both hungry, so here’s a new one because I know I said I wasn’t sorry but mom kept booing me and it upset me so now I am sorry.”

          1. Still in kindergarten?

      4. Webber must seriously lack something to get a lame win like that

    15. I won’t be that sure, but it’s probable indeed. Vettel has at least 10 more years in F1 ahead so, yeah, why not !?

    16. I believe McLaren did expect to keep Perez for another season and evaluate from there. But I also believe that part of that plan was to get Magnussen a drive elsewhere to let him make any roookie mistakes there. While that is seeming to fail they strongly consider to give him the upgrade right away.

      Though I have nothing against Perez I think it is the right thing to do. I find Button to be a consistent and solid driver but not a pace setter and not aggressive enough to fight at the front unless the car is fast enough to put him there from the get-go. Perez has not shown to be that guy either but I honestly think Magnussen could be just that. His single lap pace could match that of Hamilton but in a more complete package with good aggression when valid, less risk taking when not, great consistency and excellent technical understanding.

      I’d say go for it McLaren. In a time when you are not attracting the top drivers anyway this is one great step to get the car further up the grid. Kevin can do it – now just make sure the car can too!

    17. Not sure MW would want to win that way. Quite sure SV is more interested in breaking records than atoning for something he likely doesn’t think is necessary based on his belief he did nothing wrong.

      1. Oops, my comment was supposed to be attached to the ones at the bottom of the first page regarding SV handing MW a win.

    18. Just because there isn’t that much diversity in skin colour in F1 does not mean that there is racism…I absolutely hate it! We have had drivers from all over the world racing in the sport, from European, American, Latin American, Asian, African, Australasian backgrounds – and yet people think they can claim racism? I think the world needs to wake up to the fact that the colour of someone’s skin or their racial heritage should have no bearing whatsoever on them professionally, and that claiming racism on these grounds with no real proof is racist in itself.

    19. Quite surprised by the Webber interview. Certainly sounds like he’s got quite a bit of respect for Vettel (even if he doesn’t like him very much).

    20. Perez out. Magnussen in. This is interesting!! I can’t wait for 2014 now..

    21. Nice of Webber to say that, when he could have said nothing at all. If anybody can come out and say that Vettel’s success is not all down to Adrian Newey then it is Mark Webber. Actually, I never thought I would say this, but I am going to miss this guy next year!

    22. So with Webber’s straight shooting praise of Vettel, can we finally put away doubts that Vettel is legit and it’s not all about the car or Newey? Webber really has no dog in the fight and it’s not like he has to worry about any blowback by telling the truth, whether he slates Vettel or not.

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