Can’t judge double points before it’s tried – Massa

2014 F1 season

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Felipe Massa believes judgement on F1′s controversial double points plan should be reserved until it has been tried.

Drivers will be awarded double points for the final race of the season at Abu Dhabi in an effort to prolong the championship battle.

“Maybe it’s bad, maybe it’s good,” said Massa when asked about the new rule. “Depends. I mean, if it helps you, it’s always good.”

“If I had double points in 2008, I would’ve been champion.”

Asked if he would have been happy to win the championship that way Massa said: “No… I don’t know. Maybe it can be worse now.”

“I think it’s impossible to say ‘it’s stupid’, or, ‘it’s a good thing’ before it happens. It’s a crazy thing, but maybe it’s interesting and we’ll see.”

“To be honest, I think that when you have a very good championship, it could even help make it better. If you don’t have a good championship, it doesn’t change anything.”

Massa covered 86 laps on his final day of running at Jerez while rivals Red Bull only managed 21 during the entire test. Massa said he’d be “worried” if he was in their situation.

“But at least they have some problems sometimes.” he added. “Not just winning races a second a lap in front like we’ve seen in many races last year.”

“So maybe they’re having some troubles or some issues. I think that if you’re not seeing the Red Bull winning all the time, it could be positive for everybody.”

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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64 comments on “Can’t judge double points before it’s tried – Massa”

  1. No, we dont have to wait. Results dont change the fact that one random race give more points for no reason. I wouldnt had anything against the some kind of end of the season spectacle but heck, it have look like fair competition & sportmanship instead of stupid rule gimmick.

  2. I wonder if there would’ve been so vocal opposition if the last double-point race would be Brazilian GP – right now it seems that it sums ap the general negativity towards the Abu Dabi GP (which in part is true).

    It’s just almoast so obvious that they switch races to make Abu Dabi last and then the double points come into play.

    1. Sherlock, I think you will find that Abu Dhabi was moved to the final race of the season as a matter of convenience – I believe the circuit is due to host a post-season test once the season has ended. Double points were introduced months later, and there is a theory out there that the rule was introduced because the sport came under pressure from broadcasters who want the championship to last as long as possible as they lose viewers in their droves when the championship is decided four races from the end of the season.

    2. Chris (@tophercheese21)
      2nd February 2014, 10:36

      Abu Dhabi being the double points race plays no part in my disdain for this regulation.

      It’s not because it’s Abu Dhabi, it’s simply because it’s double points. Venue plays no role.

    3. Is it slightly more of a kick in the teeth tat the double points race is Abu Dhabi? Yeah, probably. Does that mean it isn’t a terrible, unsporting and ridiculous idea regardless of location?

  3. I disagree with him entirely.
    The problem with this rule is that it might work once. Prolonging the excitement, but still giving us a deserved champion.
    Or it could end up in a complete farce where the champion is a driver who came from being over 25 points behind, to win. Screwing over the driver and team who were actually the best.

    So the success of this system depends on the situation.
    It could be okay, or it could be completely ridiculous.
    The problem is that when it doesn’t work it would be incredibly bad for the sport, and when it does work.. it wouldn’t really make a difference except keeping up the tension a little longer.
    This system should be dropped before we can get to all these endless arguments over who deserved what championship. As it was, that discussion is quite easily put to bed.
    With this new points system, it probably doesn’t go away quite so easily.

    1. Screwing over the driver and team who were actually the best.”

      All the drivers are aware that the race carries double points, so if the driver who wins the race, wins the WDC and does so deservingly.

      I am sure at some point he would have also suffered in the hands of reliability and his rival would have taken advantage of it. If he is close enough to gain advantage, then I believe he is a deserving candidate for the WDC.

      1. That is exactly the problem, though. Driver A suffers a no-fault mechanical breakdown in a normal points race and loses 25 points, Driver B suffers a no-fault mechanical breakdown in a double points race and loses 50 points. Whether or not Driver B knew the race was worth double beforehand, does not change the fact that he has ended up losing twice as many points as Driver A did in the same scenario.

  4. dumb rule period.

  5. I think it’s impossible to say ‘it’s stupid’, or, ‘it’s a good thing’ before it happens.

    Asked if he would have been happy to win the championship that way Massa said: “No… I don’t know. Maybe it can be worse now.”

    Sigh, make up your mind, Felipe.

    1. That was very telling. I came here ready to ridicule him for such an unsporting idea, but it sounds like he’s just desperate to look on the bright side or sick of being about it.

      1. being *asked about it

    2. Good observation. I don’t think Felipe has given double points much thought and hence his response is confused.

  6. Booo Felipe Booooooooooooo…..

    1. Yes, Felipe we very much fu ing can! That is one of the main differences between complex mammals and other life forms, we have fu ing foresight, we can simulate in our heads how certain things work, what certain things mean and how will they pan out!

      Have you recently been subjected to some major head injury or what Felipe?

      The more things I hear from him the more I dislike or even hate him as a human being, I rather wont go on or it will end with a lot of profanities.

      1. well that escalated quickly

      2. A former champion is in a coma and the driver in question has suffered a significant head injury a few years back.

        And you think it’s funny?

        Not ok.

        1. I’m being dead serious. Do you think anything I said was meant to be funny?

  7. If I had double points in 2008, I would’ve been champion.

    That just says it all, doesn’t it?

    1. Yep.

      Which is to also say ‘If I had double points in 2008, it would have hid the fact that I wasn’t good enough over the course of the season where I spun myself out in multiple races, like Malaysia and Silverstone, and would have snatched a well deserved Championship off Lewis’

      I thoroughly hope the championship is wrapped up before the last race this year so everyone can switch off for the last race in defiance.

      The public have been absolutely **** on with this rule, nobody likes it all, its very well known to the people who made this ridiculous rule and yet its being kept. Remember people, we are the only reason F1 exists. Without us, sponsors wouldn’t get involved. Strength in numbers n all that. : ]

      The only way things will is if we hit them where it hurts. VIEWING FIGURES

      1. I totally agree. Actually I am not going to watch any race at all if this rule is not dropped.

  8. I think he needs to get over 08 now. Move on Massa, move on.

    1. yeah. it seems that day when he lost the championship is haunting him till this day. he must be waking up at nights in cold sweats after dreaming how Lewis passed Glock :) it’s really sad that his last win was so bitter. then the accident. then Alonso as a team-mate…no wonder poor Felipe is a psychological wreck… hope he can pull himself back at Williams but in order to do that he really has to let go of the past (which he’s not really doing at the moment).

      1. If you’re life is F1. And you were so close yet so far from winning the championship then I think you would be odd not to bring it up.

    2. But he himself says here that he doesn’t think that would necessarily be a good way to have won it.

      I do think he brings it up a bit too often, and not at the best times, but he actually took a fairly decent perspective when discussing it here.

    3. can’t judge by this Article but…

      in many cases, interviewees get drawn into a topic because the interviewer led them into it…

      If people start asking how you feel about double point, then say would you want double points back in 2008. The logical answer would be to reply according to the topic introduced…

      Not trying to defend him but no one seems to question if it was the interviewer that brought it up.

      how do people make judgement without getting a full picture…

  9. I wonder if Massa would feel the same if Williams starts the year with the fastest car, then gets outdeveloped towards the end of the year? I have no doubt it’ll make the last race exciting (if the championship is still alive) just because of the increased potential ways for the championship places to change, but from a sporting point of view it’s fairly reprehensible.

  10. Felipe, it’s not that complicated, you could try it once or a hundred times and still not be any the wiser than we are now.

    Best case, championship leader is crowned champion at race 16, so the extra 25 pts are meaningless, yawn.

    Worst case, Vettel and Hamilton trade championship lead all year, Hamilton is 30 pts. ahead going into last race, at the start one of the STRs throttle sticks open and takes Hamilton out at the 1st. corner, Vettel goes on to win 5th. WDC. What’s that smell!?

  11. I really, really hope the championship leader is 51 points ahead going into the final round.

    1. As long as this stupid rule will continue i hope the championship will be decided in Hungary at the maximum at Monza so that Bernie’s loss will be even bigger

      1. As long as it screwed Bernie over, I wouldn’t even mind if it were Ferrari that did that @tifoso1989!

    2. I’ll crown my champion in Brazil and I don’t intend to watch Abu Dhabi. I think the best would be if it would be blatantly obvious that the “champion” won only because ofdouble points. Otherwise people like Massa would say ” look it diden’t matter so its not that bad”. Double points is just as bad no matter if it decides the WDS or not.

  12. “To be honest, I think that when you have a very good championship, it could even help make it better. If you don’t have a good championship, it doesn’t change anything.”

    In other words, introducing this brings nothing extra to F1 then.

    1. This actually makes no sense at all. Somebody’s gain is somebody else’s loss in a race. It can’t improve one and not affect the other.

      1. What Massa said, that is – not what you said. I agree with you.

  13. You can’t judge Marijuana either until you try it

    1. You cant judge jumping off a skyscraper either, until you try it, if you don’t have a good life it doesn’t change anything, on the other hand you just might get into heaven. Trust me, have a go Felipe.

      Cant judge it before you try!!!

  14. The solution is so simple:
    At the end of the 41st lap of the Abu Dhabi GP every single car running pits and retires. That way they completed less than 75% of the race distance and only half the points (of the double points) are awarded and the spectators (maybe) got to watch a ok race.
    That way we neither have a farce like Indy 05 nor do we have stupid double points.

    1. Would work in theory, but do you really think all the drivers will actually unite and do it? Never in a million years. Plus the FIA will come down on the drivers like a ton of bricks, as well as all the teams if they had agreed to let their drivers do this. And if the teams hadn’t let their drivers protest like this and they’d done it, what do you think the team principals would say? Like the rule or not, points are points and constructors championship positions are worth millions of dollars.

    2. Now I’m going to be so horribly disappointed when that doesn’t happen.

  15. This has become such a classical F1 way of getting itself into something obviously stupid.
    First they come up with an absolutely idiotic idea, that is wrong in so many so obvious way and it’s clear that it’s not a way to go.
    But then, they start to think it so deep and analyze it over and over again until is stops being what it is in anybody’s ears, and just becomes a whole lot of micro parts that make no sense either good or bad way when looked at on their own.
    And then, they somehow figure “well, what IS really wrong with it?” and decide to keep something they had no need for in the first place at all, because they think it does no bad, even if it does no good either, while the idea is actually just as stupid and idiotic as it was when it was first suggested. It’s just that it’s buried under the pile of absurd overthinking and overtweaking, where they can’t even see what it is that all this garbage is now supposed to remedy.

    Analogy would be something like, putting liters upon liters of deodorant on your self to cover that scent of horse **** that you smeared all over yourself because, after thinking about it for 200 hundred days, you were so out of it, that you thought it’s not such a bad idea if you can mask it with enough deodorant to make it seem like you never did it. Instead of course, not actually doing it at all, or simply taking a bath.

  16. That makes no sense Felipe. I and I think many fans are not against it from a pure entertainment perspective – the only point that you seem to consider. It’ll create more artificial excitement, yes. It’ll be entertaining for the casual viewer. However it comes at the expense of so may other things – fairness, sporting integrity, rewarding dumb luck over excellence – that it debases the sport of Formula 1 as a whole. That’s why it’s a bad idea, and its use this year will not change why it’s terrible, or why it damages the sport.

    Oh, and I love the way he immediately brings up another variable that if applied in 2008, would have made him Champion. I am a fan of Felipe, I was distraught when he lost in 2008, but man, does he have to bring it up so often?

  17. “If I had double points in 2008, I would’ve been champion.”

    I don’t mind Felipe saying Singapore 2008 costed him the title, because, well… it’s true.

    But I fail to understand how someone might take confort that winning a specific race in the calendar, now worth two races together, would have make him champion. How can you REALLY enjoy that?

    If we follow that train of thought, Hamilton would not have cared at all about Glock or the rain had the season opener been worth double…

    It’s fine comparing points systems, and saying: “oh, Eddie Irvine would’ve won the 1999 championship had the 10-8-6-4-3-2-1 point system been used”. That’s an all year thing. But the double points for 1 race, picked at random, is so, so unfair and ridiculous.

    1. Completely agree

  18. Just wait until Vettel has a slow start and he is 49 points down in the final race and ends up taking his 5th title. Then what Felipe? It’s just better in so many ways for this not to be an option.

  19. Felipe…needs to forget Crashgate and his 2008 loss to Lewis. Its time he moved on.

  20. It’s not exactly a concept you need to get your head around. It’s quite simple to assertain. The last race rewards double points for no logical reason

  21. What a stupid thing to say Felipe BABY. You can’t judge a jump off a roof is a bad thing, until you end up in a pool of blood upon ending, too. Now we need Rob Smedley to tell him what to say to the press as well? Lame

  22. If it helps you, it’s always good. If I had double points in 2008, I would’ve been champion.

    Well, that’s the biggest problem. How much credibility will the world champion have if he wins the title only because of this new rule? Social media and other media will be full of ‘if the normal points system was in place, [name here] would be champion’. And can you imagine how the fans are going to react if their favourite driver loses the title just because of the double points rule? Even NASCAR’s new rules are not as potentially dangerous because they don’t make the difference between what has happened and what could (or should) have happened that obvious.

    There are so many possible situations that you cannot ‘try’ the rule one year to see if it’s right or not. Yes, it’s possible that everything will be (or feel) alright but it’s like playing Russian roulette.

    Massa’s opinion might sound a bit chaotic but it tells us perfectly why this rule should be scrapped before ‘trying’ it.

    1. Every season with any kind of double points scheme will need an asterisk placed next to it in the record books. At least it was fairly easy to compare previous seasons with different points systems because the same amount of points were awarded every race during a single season. It will be messy at best to make such comparisons in the future. This does not need to be tried to know it is “stupid”.

  23. “I think it’s impossible to say ‘it’s stupid’, or, ‘it’s a good thing’ before it happens.

    Many things in life can and should be judged before trying. Jumping off bridges or using meth may well be more negative examples than double points, but all three can be judged poor choices without actually having to try them first.

  24. Nice and realistic answer from Felipe. Lets give it a try and see how it pans out and evaluate after the season. Good to see most in the paddock react a tad less hysterical to a simple rule change than many a fan.

    1. Yes, just like people said “That Hitler guy can’t be that bad, let’s give him a try and see how it works out”

      1. As Bernie says, he knew how to get things done.

      2. @hohum I think you missed the part where Undersquare specifically referred to “hysterical” reactions not unlike your own…

        1. @ciaran, nothing hysterical about not allowing yourself to be pushed into passive acquiessence and submission to a principle you know to be wrong no matter how significant or otherwise the results might be. Principles, try some.

      3. Its impossible to know if murdering Jews is a bad idea until you try it 6 million times.

  25. I don’t like double points.

  26. Massa was never much of a thinking man…

  27. I have an idea.
    Since one race gets double points how about giving half points in Monaco.
    It’s not really a race, noone races there they only folllow each other so why would winner get full points?

    1. How about we use F1Fs “rate the race”score as a % multiplyer to all races, that way the championship could last till Xmas.

  28. It is time to calm down about double points people…. It’s going to happen and it will be fine.

    FACT – When the title is settled before the final race, a lot of casual viewers switch off.
    FACT – This simply increases the chances that the title won’t be settled before the final race!

    This isn’t about ‘you’ as an F1Fanatic, you are going to watch regardless, this is all about getting more casual viewers.

    It is unlikely, but possible that double points could affect the ultimate winner. Remember, it isn’t the 1950s with ten races and the final one is double points, there are 19 races, more then enough time for someone to get two races in front and prevent being robbed by a mechanical failure.

    And if it does, then that is part and parcel of the theatre of this magnificent Sport! It has never been a a pure competition, rather an intensely involved affair with all manner of complications, tyres, teammates, reliability, weather and so forth.

    Just relax and enjoy the season, stop whining all the time. If it really annoys you so much, go find another form of quality motor racing and enjoy that instead.

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