Porsche 919, Motorland Aragon, 2014

Porsche still ruling out F1 entry

F1 Fanatic Round-up

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Porsche 919, Motorland Aragon, 2014In the round-up: Porsche does not intend to start a Formula One programme in addition to its World Endurance Championship commitments.


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Kein Interesse an Formel 1 (Auto Motor und Sport, German)

Porsche's head of development Wolfgang Hatz says the World Endurance Championship is a more attractive series for the manufacturer than F1.

Williams admits 2014 hard to improve on (Autosport)

"It is one of the things that gives me great pleasure in beating Ferrari last year, it is not the fact that I am a competitive person, but that we beat them on half their budgets!"



Comment of the day

What’s in store for Max Verstappen and Carlos Sainz Jnr in the medium-term?

What will happen to Sainz and Verstappen after their two years at Toro Rosso? I can’t imagine either Kvyat or Ricciardo will be going out of there any time soon, and if Verstappen is really talented it would be a waste to have him in the B-team longer than that.

I guess Red Bull will have to fire one of their drivers to make way for Verstappen, which would be a bit of a shame but at least they’re much more likely to find a seat than the Toro Rosso rejects.

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On this day in F1

On this day 55 years ago Jack Brabham won the non-championship New Zealand Grand Prix at Ardmore driving a Cooper.

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Keith Collantine
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  • 66 comments on “Porsche still ruling out F1 entry”

    1. It’s 3 years, not 2, as far as I can remember Toro Rosso’s driver cycles.

      1. Try telling that to Scott Speed…

        1. I Remember Scott Speed on the grid and saying to the team over the radio ” my tyre blankets were on 30 seconds later than ” team mate” if my temps are down a couple of degrees ” heads will roll”
          Speed was sacked because he was an ” a{}hole”

      2. Or alguersuari.

      3. Between 2006 and 2014, Toro Rosso runned 8 drivers. Only 2 of them competed for 3 complete seasons (Buemi and Vergne) and 1 competed for 2 and a half season (Alguersuari).

        1. Poor Vettel, Ricciardo and Kvyat, being left out in the cold by STR after not even 3 seasons. Luckily RBR took them in.

          All kidding aside, it’s really only Speed and Bourdais who didn’t last more than 2 seasons at STR (or graduated to RBR).

      4. Thanks for the COTD Keith!
        Yes obviously it depends on the driver and circumstances but on average it’s two years and let’s be honest, by the second season everyone (the team, the fans, the media) knows which of the two drivers deserves the seat with the big team I really can’t see the benefit of a third year with STR (for the driver at least).

        1. Of course there’s a benefit to a third year at STR, it just hasn’t happened yet: highly promising drivers that can’t move because RBR is still full. If Webber had quit one year later, Ricciardo would probably have stayed at STR and moved to RBR for 2015.

          There are more drivers that drove for STR for more than 2 years than drivers that drove 2 years or less. With Verstappen being a special case, he’ll get his 3 years unless he’s been really, really awful after 2 years.

      5. I think Kvyat is under pressure, not Ricciardo. I’m expecting Ricciardo to do at least as good as he did in 2014 and I don’t think Kvyat will match that; therefore, if one of the Toro Rosso kids stands out in the next two season Mr. Kvyat will be dumped.

        The good news is: some current drivers will not be there in 2/3 years. I’m thinking about Jenson, Kimi, Massa and eventually Ericsson…

        1. At least as well as he did in 2014? That’s actually a pretty tall order considering how well he actually did in the Renault powered RBR… I expect a small “2nd year” slump perhaps. Depends on how RBR (and Renault) cope with a few factors: 1. the engine disparity, 2. the (partial) loss of Newey, 3. the Honda wildcard.

          If Honda’s built a screamer that can challenge or better (a bit unlikely) the Merc, then Renault (read RBR) may be pushed further back in the field. Ferrari engines will most likely be nowhere(ish) again.

          1. I’m not really talking about his position in the championship, I’m talking about his performances, regardless of how good his car is.

    2. As much as I’d like to see Porsche and/or Audi join F1, or even a BMW return to F1, I can’t imagine that happening, especially with the dire straits F1 is going through at this time. More teams would be fantastic, but these VAG teams joining F1 will remain a fantasy.

      1. Whats a VAG team?

        The ideal situation will be for all the big manufacturers in the world to have presence is F1. The early 2000s was as close as we got, Merc, BMW, Ford, Toyota, Honda, Renault, Ferrari..thats pretty much most of the big players, at least the ones that matter..throw in a GM badge (Chevrolet presumably), one from the Volkwagen stable, and at a long shot a Peugeot and yay!..we’ve pretty much covered a full grid of 10 manufacturer teams or backed teams.

        Will it ever happen? Not by a long shot…think about the cost! It will be astronomical. Nowadays, the sharp end of the grid is really only a fight (if you want to call it that) between 3 maybe 4 teams. Even with this, they are spending upwards of 200 million a year…can you imagine what they would spend if they each had to fight 9 teams?!! However, the quality of the racing should be superb, because you wont have pay drivers anymore as every team will be decently funded…hence we would really have the best of the best.

        1. @jaymenon10 VAG is Volkswagen Audi Group

          1. Not to be pernickety, but it stands for Volkswagen Aktiengesellschaft (Volkswagen Limited) which is the VW Group parent company.

            1. Me being pernickety, I think that rather stands for Volkswagen, Inc., since Limited (company) in Germany is identified as GmbH.

            2. Let’s not get too sidetracked here, but it is interesting – GmbH and AG are both different types of limited liability setups – an aktiengesellschaft is floated on the stock market. In the UK we don’t have that distinction, so limited would be correct for both German versions, as would incorporated in the US, which is largely equivalent.

          2. Isn’t it rather Volkswagen AG @pault?

      2. Would love for BMW to re buy a stake in Sauber, it wont happen but I can dream

        1. Didn’t they do that once? Didn’t work out so well from what I remember

        2. Mercedes is taking BMWs place as the lux performance car to have, how long can BM sit back and watch MB steal their thunder and their marketshare. Obviously even if they wanted to they would not join now with the future of the engine rules in disarray.

        3. I think Toyota is better equipped to go back and succeed in this era than most manufacturers including Honda. However, I don’t see Toyota going back to F1 anytime soon :(.

      3. The way Bernie is stirring up things no one will want to enter F1 ! Maybe VAG will come on board when Bernie makes the Lamborghini V10 or 12 the standard F1 powerplant.

        1. When BE falls off the perch then there will be a state of still as everyone watches to see who heads up the show and what direction it takes.

          I don’t think shareholders will allow/approve massive spending on F1

      4. I don’t care about the name brands no more, it’s not they actually build something, they just buy the title sponsorship, which is particularly shameful for a car manufacturer, most notably what part of Mercedes is actually German. Ferrari are pretty much 100% Italian which should be expected but other manufacturers may only actually produce the engine like BMW and Honda but call themselves a full team and others not even that as Toyota and now Mercedes.

        1. @peartree Ferrari is not 100% Italian. Nothing is 100% local these days and it’s not a bad thing. Those are global brands mixing talent from different places through very advanced processes.
          What’s wrong with Mercedes factory in England building their engine?

          1. I think what he’s saying is that Mercedes isnt really Mercedes, its the BAR-Honda-Brawn team, Mercedes just bought them. BMW wasnt really BMW either, it was Sauber, and Renault was Benetton. While Ferrari, for example, built its factories itself, and the team has deep connections with the company. At least thts what I understood.

          2. @jcost I have no problem with globalization. In this particular situation I’m upset that the Mercedes imprint is merely a badge, ever since it’s operation is run through a proxy in both departments, powertrain(Ilmor) and chassis(Brackley). Whilst this fact shouldn’t bother many people, this fact underlines one fact, if Mercedes wants to, they can leave F1 easily, since it’s not in their ethos to be in F1.(to note, ever since the LeMans disaster) It’s a criticism of Mercedes the carmaker rather than the F1 team.

            @austus Yes sort of I was saying. BMW made engines for Brabham and most recently owned Sauber, whilst in the first case BMW supplied their engines in the second BMW bought the team and used Sauber, their chassis manufacturer as it’s own manufacturer, thus implying that BMW actually designed the chassis, which is not accurate since it is the team they bought that made the chassis. Renault always manufactured their engines at home and in 2002 they bought Enstone but as BMW did later the team still built the engines. Now, in the case of Toyota and Mercedes, they produce neither major part of the car, they have a technical and financial partnership. This loose binding to F1 could spell disaster again if, these manufacturers plan to leave F1. That’s why Bernie awarded a bonus to teams able to prove their commitment to 2020. F1 barely survived the 2009 debacle, 3 manufacturers left and with no tyre supplier after bridgestone failed to renew their interest. No major tyre supplier wanted to pay to be in F1, so F1 brought Pirelli, that actually charges for tyres and earns money from F1…

      5. Porsche is wrong. McLaren’s P1 is better than theirs 918 Spyder so F1 is a better lab than WEC :)

        1. I can buy an Audi with Le Mans derived fuel efficiency technology in a £25,000 Audi A4, but to experience McLaren F1 technology I have to buy a £765,000 P1? Probs gonna stick with the Audi to be honest.

          1. What Le Mans derived technology has Audi actually transferred to their road cars? For example, the technology behind petrol direct injection engines was pioneered by Mitsubishi and Nissan, not Audi, and the system that Audi used had to be purchased under licence (from Magnetti Marelli, I believe).

    3. Not really news, is it? I can’t remember any decent new rumours suggesting they wanted to join F1 anyway.

      This is much more interesting imo: http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117300

      1. Good way of getting your name mentioned in the Press though… Interesting article, like those ideas, one part I didnt like was the standardised mgu’s “cost cutting” really Mr Horner. Kind of hoping the aero improvements involves reducing downforce and therefore wake of the wings and thinking more ground effects, probably sounds a little like GP3 with rockets strapped on but I like the sound of that let the cars get closer, increase the power/reduce drag would make the braking zones bigger and we’ll see much more opportunities to pass. I think that’s more important not seeing passes but drivers having a chance to, it’s improved this year to be honest but it could go further… Sorry to ramble on lol

      2. 1000 HP , easy ! Just take 6l. Chevy V8 + twin turbos, problem solved. Of course now that we have 1000hp beasts to make the cars harder to drive and more entertaining we will have to add bigger wings and tyres to make the cars easier to drive and less entertaining, but you will need your earplugs so problem solved.

        1. ColdFly F1 (@)
          9th January 2015, 3:21

          Or take the Monster Trucks – easily 1500bhp.
          And whilst we’re at it add some WWF action to the show.

          I’ll ring BE that we solved the problem!

        2. @hohum. 1000bhp (or equivalent) could easily be produced using current PU, as stated somewhat ambiguously the best way forward would be to relax the rules on ground effects and take away a lot of the downforce on the wings (gp3 style) . Make the surface area of the tyres bigger (maybe just the rears) to make the cars more about ‘cleaner’ downforce and mechanical grip. That should allow the cars to get closer, making them faster means they need more time to stop so more corners become overtaking zones, pretty sure that would leave us with exciting Formula full of (non artificially created) battles for positions, that we can also say would be the pinacle of Motorsport. And if any of the strategy group take into consideration engine noise they should be shot, several times!!! These Turbos sound much better than the squealling V8’s

      3. PS: Next month Bentley Motors will announce that despite all the rumours they currently have no plan to enter F1.

        1. @hohum Followed by Geely, Saab, Land Rover, and Bombardier.

          1. @davidnotcoulthard, Bombardier ! yes I would love to see what they could do with their direct injection 2 stroke technology, sadly F1 is so far away from the F-Libre that preceded it that that the actual ICEs are virtually identical. Further thought, the rules in F1 are so sloppy that they may well have forgotten to ban 2 strokes even though they intended to.

            1. @hohum So all Renault and Ferrari need is very-clean-burning motor oil……………

      4. Autosport published an article in March 2014 where Wolfgang Hatz, Porsche’s research and development officer, explicitly stated that Porsche were considering entering F1 if the Volkswagen group had vetoed their plans to enter the WEC.

        Hatz came out with the following statement:
        There were only two options – F1 or LMP,” he said. “But Le Mans is our second home.

        “What could have influenced it was if someone in the group had said ‘Yes, but Audi is there and you cannot compete with Audi’.

        “If someone from senior management had said this is not possible, we would have had no other alternative [but F1].”

        1. C’mon anon, get a proper non-de-plume, we would like to have proper 2way conversation since you are obviously very knowledgeable, just call yourself something short and sweet eg. JoBlo.

    4. keith the pic in your twitter post doesn’t link :(

      track looks good on f1 website, shame the sweeping esses are now jaggedy.

      1. Tilke lost his french-curve years ago so now he just uses his set-square.

        1. He actually just uses a piece of tracing paper where he has multiple different designs on corners on it. Then one day he realised he could just use the corner of the tracing paper to create corners and that was the end of that.

      2. I kinda like the turn 7 till 11 part, let’s see how that turns out. The rest is another boring Tikledrome.

    5. Mexico track is now officially ruined. The new turn 4-6 section is pathetic and unnecessary, and the stadium section layout is the worst possible solution for the Peraltada problem

    6. To be honest most of the changes to the Mexico city circuit layout don’t bother me too much because they kind of retain the general shape/flow of the old layout, But making the section in the stadium so crap is completely unnecisary. Should have just run the simple right/left/right that Champcar ran, That slow hairpin with the kink after it which looks like Turns 1/2 at Bahrain is ridiculous.

      I guess it could produce some good racing & side by side battles if someone dived up the inside at the T13 left hairpin but the other car hangs on round the outside to get the inside for T14/15 (As we do see at Bahrain turns 1/2/3 fairly often), But I’d still rather just have a simple mid speed left of some sort in the middle of the stadium.

      This is what Champcar ran through the stadium in 2002-2005:
      And what they ran instead of the stadium in 2006/2007:

      1. @stefmeister and in case you or anyone was wondering what would happen to the old baseball stadium, they will actually relocate it at the end of the main straight, between Turns 1/2/3 and the Esses!

    7. ColdFly F1 (@)
      9th January 2015, 3:35

      Breaking News: More potential future F1 drivers will not be able to obtain Superlicence!

      BBC News 09/01/14

      Russia has listed transsexual and transgender people among those who will no longer qualify for driving licences.
      Fetishism, exhibitionism and voyeurism are also included as “mental disorders” now barring people from driving.
      “Pathological” gambling and compulsive stealing are also on the list.

      1. How I long for a gay f1 driver to win the Russian grand prix…..

        1. @addimaF1 I have shaky confidence that potential sponsors/team owners/investors would not run away, frightened for the protection of their own regressive views and/or image of their brand, from such a driver if they came out, or were already out – thus forcing such an event to never take place.

          There’s been only one such driver to compete in international motorsport in the last two decades. And that driver, former WSR Megane Eurocup champion Mike Verschuur, didn’t run a single race in 2014 – just three years after coming out.

          1. @rjoconnell thanks for the example.


            Just goes to show how archaic most leaders are, political or sporting or otherwise. That stealing is comparative to LGBT in Russia is sickening. It’s becoming increasingly common, at least in other sports, for stars to come out. And I seem to remember someone (I think Michael Sam) being praised for his ‘courage’ after coming out, but it really should be as interesting as the prevailing weather. Not a big news story.

          2. @rjoconnell Interesting, I didn’t know that. Notably, he says in the link @mickey18 that he knows of other gay drivers that haven’t come out. It’ll be a similar case in football and many other sports; there are many gay competitors, but none have come out.

        2. @addimaf1 Good question. Now, did we ever have a gay F1 driver?

          1. I believe this was discussed here a couple of years ago and I think it was established that the only gay F1 driver had been Mike Beuttler who raced 1971-3. I think Mike only came out after he retired from racing, not sure though.

            1. @timothykatz I thought he was openly gay at the time (along with some of his backers), but it would have been a tough climate (maybe not in the F1 circle) at the time.

            2. @fastiesty You may well be right. It would have been a hideously tough climate back then but hopefully a little less so now. I admire the courage of any professional sportsman who ‘proclaims’.

          2. I don’t know, but Russia isn’t the only place where it would be awkward if not actually illegal. Have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory if you want to be depressed.

            1. What really depresses me is that progressively – bit by bit – countries seem to become more enlightened . . . but the opposite appears to be true of Russia.

      2. @coldfly I heard that the FIA wanted to introduce something similar a few years ago but Max Mosley opposed it for some reason ;)

        1. ColdFly F1 (@)
          9th January 2015, 11:55

          good one!

        2. ColdFly F1 (@)
          9th January 2015, 12:01

          ‘compulsive stealing’ barred as well; surely Bernie must be opposed ;-)

    8. Regarding the COTD, three car teams?

    9. @Mantresx How about this, after two seasons at McLaren and Ferrari Alonso and Kimi have had it with F1 and that creates a spot at top teams. Ricciardo is lured away because Renault still don’t have their engine where it should be and then there is room.

    10. A real shame one of the most successful engine builders (Porsche) is likely to keep out of F1. Even if Audi or Lambo or VW decide to join I’ll always lament the lack of the Porsche label. F1 needs all the prestige and history it can muster!

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