Red Bull has reorganised its technical staff as designer Adrian Newey has scaled back his activities with the F1 team this year.
Although Newey describes his role for 2015 as being only “slightly less hands-on than I have been previously”, he nonetheless admits the coming season is “the first year where I’ve been involved in other things as well as the design of the Formula One car”.
New chief engineering officer Rob Marshall is part of a four-man team which faces the task of taking over the areas of responsibility formerly handle by the man regarded as Formula One’s best designer. Head of aerodynamics Dan Fallows, chief engineer for car Paul Monaghan and chief engineer for performance Pierre Wache will also have input.
“Going from chief designer to chief engineering officer has been a bit of a challenge,” explained Marshall. “Obviously Adrian’s stepped aside to a certain extent to make a bit more space for some of us to shuffle up and fill some of the void he’s left.”
“So it’s fallen upon me Paul, Pierre and Dan to fill in a little bit of the areas that Adrian’s moved on from and we’ve formed a technical group to basically make the decisions that he would have made in the past on his own for us. We’re kind of manning up and doing them ourselves.”
Another change for 2015 will see the team work more closely with engine supplier Renault, which is now providing engines only for Red Bull and sister team Toro Rosso, as they try to gain on Mercedes.
“The process working with Renault has changed a little bit,” said Marshall. “We’ve taken on more responsibility to help them with certain areas of the engine package.”
“The demarcation zone between engine and chassis is no longer as clear-cut as it used to be. Getting the best out of one of these modern power units requires a lot of integration between engine and chassis side. And so we’re sort of working with Renault much more closely than we were before to help that.”
Marshall said the new RB11, which is due to run for the first time at Jerez tomorrow, is outwardly similar to its predecessor but differs greatly under the skin.
“Last year’s car was a very new car the regulations changes were very comprehensive. This year the areas are pretty minor, there’s some regulation changes that will affect the shape of the car that will be common to all the cars on the grid.”
“Beyond that most of the changes are under the skin a far as we’re concerned. We’ve identified the areas where we can make improvements and we’ve worked hard on those. So basically there will not be a great deal that’s visible to the naked eye but a lot of work’s gone on to those bits that are hidden.”
Marshall added the team hope to make “significant gains” on Mercedes, who comfortably beat them to the constructors’ championship in 2014, “We were firmly beaten last year, we know we need to improve on both sides.”
“The engine was clearly struggling a bit compared to Mercedes who did an excellent job. We hope to make a reasonable improvement, we’d like to close the gap by a tangible amount. If we can do enough with the engine and enough on the chassis side then hopefully we can compete and win some more races.”
2015 F1 season
- How a secret Mercedes engine mode helped pressure Vettel into a race-ending puncture
- Over 100 driver penalties issued in record-breaking 2015
- Part-time racer? The facts of Hamilton’s ‘jet-set lifestyle’
- The Complete F1 Fanatic 2015 season review
- Your favourite – and least favourite – F1 races of 2015
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
31st January 2015, 11:53
Do you think had Newey never, or rarely, come to a race and stayed in the factory people would appreciate Vettel more for his achievement? I’m wondering a lot these days about my own stance towards Hamilton his ’14 title and Vettel his ’11 and ’13 titles. It seems there is plenty of bias on for example the Eurosport app where people are very, very negative about Vettel ‘the car did it’, and ridiculously positive about Hamilton. All whilst they did the exact same thing, took advantage of the car they had at their disposal like every single world champion did.
Neel Jani (@neelv27)
31st January 2015, 12:35
@xtwl I can’t agree more. Any team that Adrian goes, he’ll be vastly credited for it but I always have been against those who bash Vettel for no rhyme or reason.
I’ve never heard people say that it was the dominant McLaren and not Senna who won the title, nor have I heard that it was Adrian’s McLaren that gave Hakkinen the title.
I believe the primary reason for Vettel hatred has been more in regards to having a team mate in the name of Mark Webber who has always been a very likable figure. With the antics of Turkey 2010, Britain 2011 and Malaysia 2013 apart from being a serial winner and his loud celebrations have really pinched the fans hard.
You need not look far for evidence. The moment he got beaten by Ricciardo, people just pounced on him as if Vettel scored no points and Ricciardo scored 200.
It’s unfortunate but some drivers are good magnets and some are bad!
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
31st January 2015, 12:40
@neelv27 Funny thing is, sometimes I feel like I’m the only Mark Webber fan. Beyond ‘he’s likeable’. I got his signature on my wall and his Williams and Red Bull caps on a shelve.
Neel Jani (@neelv27)
31st January 2015, 12:42
@xtwl You’re one lucky guy! :D
See you at the F1Fanatic live tomorrow :)
MagillaGorilla (@magillagorilla)
31st January 2015, 12:37
@xtwl Which is fine and I agree to an extent, until you gloss over the fact that unlike Vettel, Hamilton or Alonso have managed to win in mediocre cars or cars not to their standard. Every year Hamilton has won a race even in a car like the W04 that was horrid many times and only good sometimes on Sunday compared to Saturday. And Vettel this wonderful world champ to some couldn’t capitalize on a pretty good car from last year to get one of the 3 RBR wins.
You know it was a new transition for everyone not just him so, this idea that he needed to get acclimated as a 4 time WDC only bodes in the favor of those who say “car did it all and he was there for the ride”. I don’t agree with it either but I also don’t agree that their are parallels to 14 and 13 or even 11 considering that Webber was only on par with Vettel in 09 and 10.
Also the car last year was a tailor made piece for Vettel as best possible, the conception was so much in his favor that had to make room for the supposed wider hipped Ricciardo while not compromising the design. Point is yes, Vettel can drive, but I would rather wait and see if he can do something with Ferrari before I hail him in some higher regard.
MagillaGorilla (@magillagorilla)
31st January 2015, 12:39
That Webber portion should also say “and Nico was on par with Lewis all the time even beating the so called Quali Master at his own game”
Davej
31st January 2015, 14:31
And Nico beating Lewis in qualy gave him the WDC right?
OmarR-Pepper (@)
31st January 2015, 12:44
@magillagorilla
And Toro Rosso 2008 was the class of the field, right?
MagillaGorilla (@magillagorilla)
31st January 2015, 13:11
Is that what you pin all your hopes on with Vettel, a weekend where varying wet conditions put all of the top runner on the back foot and opened up an opportunity for a future 4 time WDC? No one said that Vettel hasn’t driven a mediocre car what was said or rather implied is when given to the others it seems they do more with it than Vettel has shown.
If the STR of 08 was a dog of a car compared to the RB10 especially, then it shows how different the guy is from then to now. Maybe he needs more crazy weekends like the 08 Monza one, but I like to think that isn’t the case. But it’s your holy grail for Vettel.
OmarR-Pepper (@)
31st January 2015, 13:36
@magillagorilla but unlike Maldonado (who also won in a “mediocre” car) Seb learnt from his mistakes, including terrible Turkey. Malaysia is not, in my opinion, a mistake, a PR mistake maybe, but not a racing one. and if you remember and go beyond your all-fronts criticism against Sebastian, he was able to do “a Hamilton” in Brazil 2012. Both Seb and Lewis won the championship in similar fashion, coming from the back, with a bunch of luck on their side in a rainy track. Yet, many people say “Hamilton was relentless until he could pass Timo Glock and win the WDC” oh, and it was Seb who almost helps Massa, overtaking Lewis on that last lap, remember? In a “mediocre” car.
Seb is having a bad year. Hamilton had a bad year in 2011 as well(ok, and maybe that was why Button could beat him in 2011). Yet, Hamilton needed “the super car” to win his second WDC. And I don’t think that is bad for him. It would be mad from Mercedes to hire Maldonado or Ericcson to drive a fine piece of art. They have to go for talent, and Lewis has it. But what sounds illogical for me (and it’s only an opinion, don’t take it personal) is when people try to take Seb down as a “it was just the car” one-trick guy.
Blackmamba (@blackmamba)
31st January 2015, 13:54
@omarr-pepper it was when Seb’s fans started comparing Vettel to Fangio, Prost, Senna and the like that people said hang on a minute, he hasn’t proved himself against a truly competitive driver or in a run of the mill car to mount a championship challenge or win races. Most people took a wait and see approach and at the first hurdle Vettel failed. You bring up 2011 but in his worst year Hamilton still matched Button’s 3 wins. That is how you have a bad year, by still retaining your speed. Not by bring regularly slower than your teammate and being passed on track. Sorry that just is not a good sign if you want to be compared against the legends!
MagillaGorilla (@magillagorilla)
31st January 2015, 14:10
@omarr-pepper
First and foremost you might want to read my response on the STR3 to the other user questioning my choice of wording. The STR3 wasn’t mediocre considering it had the ability to finish in the points more often than not under Vettel, and was a decent car from Newey.
As for Maldonado…who cares, not sure why you’ve used this tangent, but one his car wasn’t mediocre it was decent until summer upgrades came, two Barcelona is a tight track that is easily won from front row. This is further seen as the finish order of the top seven compared to the start is virtually unchanged. The race easily could have been a Hamilton win if not for one of the many McLaren blunders that year. Also this is proven by the seven different winners of 12 showing how close the field was in the first third of the season only for summer upgrades to disperse it out two three teams. (four if you count Lotus)
2012 and 2008 I agree are somewhat comparable but I figure it was always going to be Vettel winning, the same couldn’t be said in 08 for me. And really once Vettel recovered and Alonso couldn’t do anything to get further it was sealed. Unlike 2008 where it was down to the penultimate lap. (if I remember correctly).
No Hamilton didn’t have a bad year in 2011, he had a stupid year. Most of what happened that year can’t be blamed on the team or the car but Hamilton. No they didn’t have the fastest car but still he could have done far better. Also Lewis had a super car in 2012 the team wasn’t there for them
What criticism? I never said Vettel was a bad driver, the fact is I said Vettel won his championship differently and isn’t very comparable to Lewis. Which is honesty, some fans seem to get up in arms either way at those who are honest about drivers and teams. I’ve seen your bias in the past toward Vettel so continuing on this front isn’t a worthy endeavor cause you’re subjective to him from the start.
Why would I take your final statement personal? What I take personally is you not being able to read correctly, no where do I state that Seb won purely due to a car or multiple cars, no where do I say he’s a one trick pony or anything close to that. What I said is Vettel 11/13 vs Hamilton 14 isn’t comparable because he had no equal, Lewis actually had someone that could equal him most times. Now 2012 was pivotal because he had an equal and beat him, obviously that being Fernando Alonso.
OmarR-Pepper (@)
31st January 2015, 14:36
@magillagorilla not really (and thanks for the long reply).
I have publicly criticized other people who post here, who, even in 2014, were blinded to say Seb was DOTW every race (when obviously Ric was beating him). I never defended Seb in Turkey (if you are able to find the links around those days, you can check it), and I always try to keep the comments balanced, a little sharp sometimes, yes… but what I don’t like is to see things from just one angle. As much as I disagree with Seb-is-a-racing-god, I disagree with Lewis-is-a-racing-god (and the same about Alonso-is-a-samurai-god). It’s refreshing (and fun) to disagree. Good debate man.
tmax (@tmax)
1st February 2015, 3:31
@magillagorilla In 2012 The first seven Races were won by 7 different drivers !!! and of course we all knew the 2014 Mercedes was a dog of a car which was only 2 to 3 secs ahead of the competition on a single lap !!!!! It was a very difficult job for Hamilton to bring such a car to Finish line !!!!! Oh Poor Lewis he had to work so hard to make that Mercedes to stay on the track !!!!
MagillaGorilla (@magillagorilla)
2nd February 2015, 0:11
@tmax no one said the W05 was a dog of a car, your sarcasm stemming from lack of reading comprehension is your issue, and yours alone. Go back and read and maybe another time around you’ll understand. As for 2012 yes it had 7 different drivers win in the first 7 races…what’s the point, you’re trying to make? Cause mine was clear, anyone from seven to eight of the teams on the grid at the time could have won a race: Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren, Sauber, Williams, RBR, FI, Lotus. And out of those eight six of them had 1 of the seven wins while the others were in the hunt at some point.
tmax (@tmax)
1st February 2015, 3:26
@magillagorilla . You are funny ….Just remember Newey’s own Red Bull had not won a race till then. But then you credit Vettel’s win to Newey because the Torro Rosso is allegedly inspired (Some even claimed Designed) by Newey’s previous year car which was pathetic on the grid !!!!
I can only laugh at the people who say that Newey deigned the Torro Rosso when the Red Bull itself was not winning races . Oh yeah Newey would have walked past the Torro Rosso Garages a few times !!!! if that helps LOL…..
MagillaGorilla (@magillagorilla)
2nd February 2015, 0:05
@tmax Um I’m not crediting Newey for the win, I’m crediting him for the design of the car in which he did design. Since prior to 2010 Newey did the design effort for both cars of Red Bull until the FIA told them (STR) to do their own work and have it be it’s own entity instead of two teams sharing the same people.
You can laugh out of some naive foundation that people may be not giving Vettel his due credit (which I have given him credit). Also no the RBR wasn’t winning races but the Ferrari engine was a better performing engine earlier on in the V8 era and it wasn’t until later in the V8 era did Renault seem to over take Mercedes and Ferrari in certain aspects like usability and reliability.
You might wanna learn your F1 history, especially seeing how much you comment in here, if you don’t know that the car design from 06 to 09 was done by the same man for both teams.
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
31st January 2015, 12:49
@magillagorilla That’s the part where I don’t agree. I don’t see Nico as a good driver. Nico did not impress me in any way on any sunday except for Brazil. His four other wins include Monaco and Austria (can’t overtake here), and Hockenheim and Melbourne (Hamilton was out of the equation right from the start). I think people are giving Nico way to much credit so they can give Hamilton even more for defeating him. Had the Mercedes been less dominant I’m pretty sure Ricciardo could’ve finished second this year. I must say though that Nico did impress me on saturday, I expected pole after pole for Hamilton.
And I’m sick of ‘Lewis won races in bad cars’. Please, the McLaren is never a bad car. It has been since 2013 but before that, never. The car was always able to win races on a good and lucky day. The WO5 wasn’t that bad a car either. Properly fast on one lap and on a track like Hungary very usefull indeed. Same for Alonso, he never had the luxury at Ferrari to drive dominant cars but they never were properly bad. Red Bull was just that little better on every single detail, so when they had a bad day like in Valencia it was the next best car that took advantage.
If anything Vettel is the only one to have placed a car beyond it’s potential in 2008 with the Toro Rosso. Mind you, I’m not saying he is the all time greatest driver but I do fail to see why he wouldn’t be considered at least on par with Hamilton.
MagillaGorilla (@magillagorilla)
31st January 2015, 13:28
You don’t have to see Nico in that regard, the stats/points speak for themselves. The fact is Nico gave Lewis a hard time during the season and Lewis had to push the edge to come out in the end. Yes there were frequent breakdowns but Keith posted up a nice article post season that showed no one Mercedes broke down far more than the other.
However, break downs of either car ended up working to the benefit of the other driver at different times in the year. So using that cop out is just that a cop out. I’m not giving Lewis anything, and to be honest I think Lewis could have saved much more time focusing better on Saturday then having to try and make some hero drive on Sunday. I feel Lewis should have been able to take the fight to Nico no matter what and not let it go down to the 3/4ths line of the season.
If anything Nico has gained my respect more so, but that’s not the point of this now.
McLaren is never bad? I guess neither is a Ferrari, cause heritage wins races… These cop outs are quite a riot, the 09 McLaren was a joke, 2012 the team couldn’t seem to find their heads for either driver and both suffered due to it, when they probably could have beat RBR. Those factor in quite a bit. The W05 was highly bad, it was the only car on the grid to have the glaring issue of eating through rears and over heating them to a point where both drivers couldn’t maintain.
Also if you’re going to quote the odd ball track like Hungary which is a one of a kind event (like Monaco), then sure it’s amazing, too bad the season consists of less tightly packed circuits. Last years Ferrari…properly bad and if it wasn’t it’s quite a shame of the general groups to take so much away from teams like Williams or even Force India who took the fight to McLaren.
That would be the case if the STR3 was a bad car, however it wasn’t and the car actually finished consistently in the points under Vettel. And was close to the podium many times the nature of that weekend worked in Vettel’s favor and like the WDC he later became he used that to his benefit. But don’t make it sound like he took a Ford Escort and beat a bunch of F1 cars.
I think Vettel is a great driver but the point you’ve missed is that their are varying factors between the different drives that are why comparing them is just a subjective exercise.
Jules
31st January 2015, 14:25
Vettel is far from great. He’s never won a race further back from row 2 and when he didn’t have the fastest car, his performance was dismal. The fact that he could not adapt to the car built around in 2014 and being so badly beaten by Ricciardo proves a point. That Vettel’s driving skills are above average at best.
Until he can at least show us he can beat Kimi in a Ferrari, I would say Vettel’s 4 titles are down to the car’s superior performance and nothing to do with being a great racing driver. That word great is reserved for Alonso at the moment.
tmax (@tmax)
1st February 2015, 3:20
@Jules FYI
Senna never Won a race starting behind Row 2
LEWIS HAMILTON NEVER WON A RACE starting Behind ROW 2 !!!!
LOL…
Blackmamba (@blackmamba)
31st January 2015, 15:38
@xtwl you may not see Nico as a good driver but Lewis thinks otherwise. Here is a quote from him from 2011, 3 years before he even new 1 day they would be teammates; “We all believe we are the best, and that’s what you have to do, unless you like to finish second,” the 26-year-old underlined. “[The best] are Alonso, Vettel and Rosberg, who I’ve known since I was 13. He (Rosberg) is about to burst through and he will at any time. Sebastian is in a great period with Red Bull and has a lot of confidence. I tend to value his opinion which was said without any agenda at the time. Here is another one from Perez in 2013; “In terms of pure speed, Nico Rosberg is the fastest German. But Sebastian is the more complete driver and a great champion,” Perez is quoted as saying. So hardly as rubbish as you are trying to suggest
Brian Frank (@brianfrank302)
31st January 2015, 12:58
@xtwl Agree with you o that one. Mercedes advantage in 2014 was greater than what RBR had in last 4 years. If Vettel’s titles were always because of the car, the same applies to Hamilton. IMO, people don’t like Vettel like Alonso or Hamilton, so they’re very quick to write off his accomplishments. And on top of that, as @neelv27 pointed out, Webber was more popular than Vettel and nobody had thought that RBR would defeat Ferrari or McLaren for a span of 4 years.
BTW, this was a nice article I read in 2013
Brian Frank (@brianfrank302)
31st January 2015, 13:03
Link
Brian Frank (@brianfrank302)
31st January 2015, 13:05
Why isn’t the link appearing?
This one
http://thejudge13.com/2013/09/24/f1-features-the-vettel-boo-pandemic/
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
31st January 2015, 13:21
@brianfrank302 Thanks!
Jorge Lardone (@jorge-lardone)
31st January 2015, 20:34
Facts, no words.
First Race Champion Races Wins Poles Record Lap
Vettel: 2007 4 139 39 (28,1%) 45 (32,4%) 24 (17,2%)
Hamilton: 2007 2 148 33 (22,3%) 38 (25,7%) 20 (13,5%)
Alonso: 2001 2 234 32 (13,7%) 22 ( 9,4%) 21 ( 8,9%)
Raikkonen: 2001 1 211 20 ( 9,5%) 16 ( 7,6%) 40 (18,9%)
Button: 2000 1 265 15 ( 5,7%) 8 ( 3,1%) 8 ( 3,1%)
OmarR-Pepper (@)
31st January 2015, 12:52
@xtwl) Yeah, I have mentioned the same comparison about those 3 years many times… but it’s as useless to make Ham fans understand that one, as when you try to make them understand that Button beat Hamilton (points aside) fair and square in 2011.
And BTW, who designed last year Mercedes, was it Brawn? or we have to start saying “it wasn’t Lewis, it was Lowe, Bell, Costa and Willis”? It sounds as a New York law firm.
Blackmamba (@blackmamba)
31st January 2015, 13:30
In 2014 the Redbull won 3 races but not from Vettel. If he was so great then surely as the defending 4 time World Champion he should have won at least once to match Hamilton who has won a race in every season he has competed. Clearly the car was capable because Ricciardo managed to do it. Thrice! What’s his excuse! He does not LIKE the new regs? Well then adapt and prove your talent like every other great driver of yester year and stop threatening to quit coz suddenly another driver is proving to you and everybody that you weren’t all that in the first place. And pliz stop pulling up the Torro Rosso win as some proof of his magical abilities coz that car was effectively a Redbull in disguise. It was a Newey creation so hardly some mediocre machine.
OmarR-Pepper (@)
31st January 2015, 13:44
@blackmamba so you believe that “Seb could have quit” urban legend?
And yeah, I admit this year Sebastian looked down, almost terrible, but that has happened before to many other great drivers. And Seb MUST recover from that, he knows some people (like you… know) will always try to bring him down.
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
31st January 2015, 13:53
@blackmamba I’d love to invite you to my home and rewatch the three races Ricciardo ‘won’.
Canada – Both Mercedes cars broke down and drove around without ERS. That made the cars worse than an HRT. Not that difficult to overtake them would it? Even if I remember correct if the balance had swung in Vettel his favour it could’ve even been him standing on top. On a normal day Ricciardo would’ve had a fine P3 where Vettel finished P4….
Hungary – Had that SC not happend there was no way in Ricciardo would’ve ever finished near the podium.
Spa – One of Ricciardo his best races but had Nico not crashed into Hamilton it would’ve never happend. Even then Nico was stupid enough to lock up massively again into the busstop and had to pit again.
I’d say Ricciardo used all his luck for the coming years in these three races. And I know luck has to come into it for everyone but saying the RB was a race winning car on merit and because Ricciardo has some luck winning surely 4-times-champ Vettel should have won races too is just a bridge to far.
Ean (@ean)
31st January 2015, 14:02
The highest trees gets the most wind. Senna was often jeered by some of the fans and the press criticized him a lot while he was still alive. Strange later those same people made him a hero and could say not a thing wrong.
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
31st January 2015, 13:49
@blackmamba I’d love to invite you to my hme
OmarR-Pepper (@)
31st January 2015, 13:54
@xtwl what for eh?
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
31st January 2015, 13:59
@omarr-pepper Is that why you friend-requested me? :)
OmarR-Pepper (@)
31st January 2015, 14:12
@xtwl hahahaha
Blackmamba (@blackmamba)
31st January 2015, 14:22
Oh, now I see @xwtl , when Vettel wins 4 titles in a row you don’t wanna put it into perspective and consider that maybe the Newey package was the differentiator. But when he gets beat by his teammate suddenly we need to take into consideration Ricciardo’s ‘luck’. Look, Vettel does have some talent and he still has time on his side to shore up his record, but it is of many people’s opinion that as of right now he isn’t even the class of the field, let alone the upper echelons of Fangio, Clark, Senna and Prost. Baby Schumi indeed!
Blackmamba (@blackmamba)
31st January 2015, 14:37
I meant @xtwl and I know my words are dazzling and all but I don’t swing that way. Sorry bud. Rain-check on that invite?
MattDS
31st January 2015, 14:23
Yes, and how great that Red Bull was that year.
Fantastic argument. Great insight. This should end the discussion. Bravo.
Blackmamba (@blackmamba)
31st January 2015, 14:48
Well, the Redbull that year was driven by Webber and Coulthard. Make of that what you will @mattsds
Iestyn Davies (@fastiesty)
31st January 2015, 18:22
Red Bull and Toro Rosso were the same car – but different engines. Ferrari engine sucked more than Renault engine I guess. Not to mention that RB started focussing on 2009 from mid-season so they could get a jump on the new regulations.
Iestyn Davies (@fastiesty)
31st January 2015, 18:39
Although that said about the engines.. Vet/Web was the top scoring combination, Cou/Bou worse, hence both were dropped soon after and Buemi/Alguersuari added to the new TR (customer cars then banned) soon after. But TR seemed good in the wet.. see Bourdais’ performance at Monza and Fuji. Renault engine driveability? China was the outstanding drive by Vettel in 2007.
F1Bratz
31st January 2015, 13:41
And can you explain why Vettel badly beaten by Ric on the same car? The car that put him third on Driver standing. While Vettel only manage fourth, only manage to pull out six points gap from Alonso, who, btw, trashed his teammate in the same car? Forget about Toro Rosso 2008. Explain Red Bull 2014? Can you point out exactly when either Hamilton or Alonso in the same position where they badly beaten by their teammates?
And please, just respect other. I may have different perspective than yours. But I like a healthy discusion. Don’t argue like you have a gospel truth and said that it is a FACT that people who don’t get it should label themselves as stubborn fans. Just give your argument. We are here to discuss. To have fun. We may have some differences on who is the best racer, who is the best team, etc.
Sometime by discussing or arguing each other, yes we may reach an agreement. But more often, we may not. And when that happen, should we say “It’s useless to make them understand”. Why? Are you here mainly to make a point? It’s a shame because I follow F1Fanatic for years mainly because of healthy discussion in the comment section unlike many other F1 websites.
OmarR-Pepper (@)
31st January 2015, 14:41
My apologies if I offended you. But just check in the forum (tbh I don’t remember the link, but is something like “Button vs Hamilton during the McL years) and you will see that MANY fans (again, sorry to make it general) just can’t see it was possible (due to many factors in that season, even maybe Lewis’s personal problems) that Button beat him in 2011.
So you can see “my point” now. Hope it helps.
OmarR-Pepper (@)
31st January 2015, 14:44
… and about why Ricciado beat Vettel, who knows! The guy may be the real deal too! during all the season, he stood up against everyone without fear, remember the Hungary race. Lucky for the pitstop yes, but once he could attack, he attacked everyone, including the Mercs (and a little over-aggressive Hamilton). That shows me that maybe Ric is the next multiple world champion.
Neel Jani (@neelv27)
31st January 2015, 15:51
I really don’t see a point here
Firstly, Vettel never adjusted to the new 2014 regulations and hence struggled with the car. Which in itself is bad, however, I’ve never seen people critisise Webber when he struggled to extract as much as Vettel from the exhaust blown diffuser.
If you point as to why Hamilton or Alonso never struggled that bad against a team mate as Vettel then it must be reminded that Alonso had drivers like Piquet Jr., Grosjean and Massa during the years when his car was bad.
Similarly, I only remember the first half of 2009 when Lewis drove a bad car in his F1 career and he had Kovalainen as his team mate.
My argument is simple, why people (I am not pointing at you) give Vettel so much of flak without understanding the situation with an unbiased intent.
F1Bratz
31st January 2015, 21:42
What? 2012 is not so long ago, but you choose to forget how Button fare in that Mclaren? If Lewis not drive that Mclaren, I bet people will see it as trash. And I can assume the same with RB10. If only there is Vettel who drove that car, people will assume finally Newey create a garbage. But then fortunately Daniel can show that it is actually the best of the rest beside the Mercs.
My point is, Hamilton and Alonso already show time and time again that they can shine, not only survive, but shine whenever regulation change. Unlike Vettel, they can adapt very well. And no matter who is their team mates they have shown spectacular results.
And when you said “people give Vettel so much of flak without understanding the situation with an unbiased intent.” Have you also not trapped in the same situation?
You said Hamilton only had “Kovalainen” when he had a bad car. Although, I don’t know what that’s supposed to mean because the “only-Kovalainen” that I see is a great racer, it’s a shame that he’s paired with Hamilton. Anyway, forget abou that, how about Button? Don’t tell me he’s another unworhty champion? Or Alonso? The overhyped? Please… give me a break.
And now Hamilton is teamed up with Rosberg, who is also consistently performed very well with different teammates. And it makes you wonder, this kid really have no “fear”. But I guess you will say it’s biased. But then again maybe it’s all biased when talking about Hamilton’s teammate.
But for me, its very very simple, just give him the same car and the same regulation and he will shine.
Anyway what Webber has anything to do? It’s not him who holds 4 time world champion title? I fail to see a reason to blame him when he fail to adapt to new regulation or different type of cars. Hence, that is why he don’t have 4 time world champion title, supposedly. Forget 4, he doesn’t have one.
What surprised me is when a racer like Daniel who is “unknown” then suddenly beating up the 4 time world champion in his new team with his newly adapted car. Now what do you call it, bias?
So You expect people to understand, sure Vettel is struggling under new reg, Webber does, and nobody complaint. Well Webber don’t have those 4 titles. But I bet if he asked he want to trade places with Vettel about that one.
Besides as I already said the bar has been set high by Hamilton and Alonso who for whatever reason has adapt very well no matter what the regulation is and how good the car is. So i can’t see a reason why I can give a 4 time world champion an excuse not to adapt well to new reg, new car, new team, or new team mates.
Sorry, that’s my honest oppinion.
lockup (@)
31st January 2015, 14:08
@xtwl I think it’s true that a lot of people simply don’t take to Vettel’s persona, but do take to Hamilton’s as well as the way he races.
On top of that Seb won FOUR in a row at such a young age, with some people talking about the new Senna, and then when the car changed he was shown up by a relative nobody.
And that tied in with the period in 2012 when the hot blowing map was changed and Webber beat him. One Trick Pony? Bound to be asked. The 2008 Torro Rosso was a Red Bull clone so that doesn’t help, especially since even Bourdais put it 4th on the grid at Monza.
It was rather the sublime to the ridiculous, so there was bound to be a reaction. And I’m guessing people think Daniel wouldn’t have beaten Lewis, is the thing.
Davej
31st January 2015, 14:47
Sorry Posrche F1 but I have to question your knowledge on the sport. Mclaren has never been a bad car? What do you call the MP4-24 then? People will say “ahhh yes it was a bad car in the first half of the season” but yet in Heikki’s hands who is by no means a mediocre driver, the results did not change yet Hamilton had wins and podiums in it.
In 2012 the Mclaren in Button’s hands was backmarker from China until Belgium, heck even Button got lapped in Canada because he couldn’t set it up. And I guess you also missed the W04 which was a bullet in qualy, yet on Sundays was a tyre shredder. Seriously though, Lewis won the championship in ’08 with a car that came second in the constructors. As it stands he is one of the only few exceptions to have achieved that feat in the history of the sport.
Some will say that “Ferrari made blunders with Massa in 08 etc” or whatever but the history books will show that the Ferrari was the best car in 08, after all reliability is crucial in a team and thus they had the best car overall. Oh and need I mention that Lewis is the only driver on the grid to have won the championship with two teams, beaten two reigning world champs in Alonso (LH 2nd and ALO 3rd) and Button (’10) on the grid.
So yes I think Hamilton’s “overhype” as you put it is very justified. Vettel has only beaten one ‘credible’ team mate in Webber but when he faced a top crop driver in Ricciardo he failed. The RB10 was a multiple race winner in RIC’s hands but in Vettel’s it was only a podium finisher. Also Vettel has never been up against a WDC team mate and beaten him so if you ask me, Vettel has had an easier ride and thus this is why people give him alot of stick.
One point I do agree with you about though is that almost every WDC has had the best car- Senna, Prost, Hakkinen, Schumi, Vettel, Button, Alonso you name it. So there is no reason whatsoever that Hamilton’s achievements should be an exception given that he was in the same situation in ’14 like these other world champions before him.
rushfan
31st January 2015, 17:10
I personally think that together with Hamilton’s previous seasons in inferior cars coupled with the fact that IMO Rosberg is a better driver than Webber AND at a different point in his career swings in Hamilton’s favour. Red Bull also was perceived as Vettel’s team. It sometimes appeared that Merc was biased towards Rosberg (until the Spa incident)
Patrick (@paeschli)
31st January 2015, 20:04
I think it has to do with the fact that Vettel has always been in cars who are fast in quali. Even if he has done some fanatastic races (Abu Dhabi 2012 if my memory is good), he never won a race from further than third on the grid.
Alonso’s Ferrari wasn’t always that bad, but it looks more like ‘punching above your weight’ when you win a race from fifth or sixth on the grid, even if it’s due to the fact the car is set-up for the race without quali in mind.
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
31st January 2015, 21:41
@paeschli Just a fun fact then, Hamilton has started the British GP in 2014 from 6th, the lowest position he ever started in a race he actually won. Hardly makes for an impressive stat in a car that is well over a second faster and your only rival has a technical failure. Out of his 32 wins he won 18 of them from pole. 4 other races in 2014 he started second and went on to win, that makes 22 races out of 32. This means in the other 10 he started somewhere between 2nd and 5th on the grid. Those are hardly really heroic drives with terrible cars so it seems. Vettel meanwhile scored 26 poles in his 39 races he went on to win.
I’m trying to say is, yes Vettel won a lot from pole but being on pole is part of the game in the first place.
Osvaldas31 (@osvaldas31)
31st January 2015, 12:16
First time Red Bull admit they were weaker than Mercedes not only in engine department, but also on the chassis side. They’re aerodynamic performance was really good, but it seemed to lack on the consistency basis. Knowing RBR, they should iron out inconsistencies and come back as a real threat, but I’m worried they may again fall back as Newey is taking a step back and they may feel concequences just after a while.
Mashiat Lam Gofran
31st January 2015, 13:07
@osvaldas31 The Red Bull had the best chassis out there. According to most experts who watched the car trackside agreed that it was the most well-balanced and consistent car in the corners, and also don’t forget that the Renault engine was not only lacking in horsepower, but also didn’t offer the smooth power delivery that the Mercedes power unit provided.
anon
31st January 2015, 16:59
@Mashiat Lam Gofran, on the other hand Andy Green, the Technical Director of Force India, stated quite clearly that he believed that the W05 was a superior aerodynamic package to the RB10.
For example, to quote from a recent interview he gave to Autosport, he stated:
“Even comparing it to the teams that traditionally had good aerodynamics, like Red Bull, Mercedes are still significantly quicker.”
I am not entirely convinced that you can definitively state that Red Bull had the best chassis in the field last year – even at venues, or in sectors within a particular circuit, where aerodynamic efficiency is key, the difference between Mercedes and Red Bull in terms of cornering performance has not been that significant, and more usually slightly in favour of Mercedes rather than Red Bull.
MagillaGorilla (@magillagorilla)
31st January 2015, 12:42
Is anyone else a bit worried that they need such a large group to fill the void that isn’t even a full void that Newey is leaving? I mean talk about having a team built around one guy (that isn’t a driver) and then trying to figure out how to fix that when he decides to no longer be apart of it. It just seems they’re throwing everything at it to make sure they don’t falter, and who could blame them Mercedes did the same thing to get to where they are now. The only group it didn’t work for was Ferrari.
anon
31st January 2015, 17:07
@magillagorilla, bear in mind that Red Bull have lost more key figures than just Newey over the past year.
You need to remember they had to release Prodromou, who was their chief aerodynamicist and an individual who has been just as keenly sought after as Newey (Newey himself recommended Prodromou to Red Bull, and a number of key aerodynamic features on Red Bull’s cars were developed by Prodromou rather than Newey), to McLaren several months earlier than they’d originally planned to, not to mention the legal fights they had with McLaren over complaints of staff poaching.
Another, quieter, development was the fact that Red Bull also lost their head of vehicle dynamics to Porsche’s WEC program, which has also had a noticeable impact.
dragoll (@dragoll)
31st January 2015, 12:58
This is one of the first admissions that I’ve seen from someone at RBR, talking about Newey stepping back with very little involvement. RBR were touting at the end of 2014 that Newey was still hanging around, however, it seems clear in the video above that Newey isn’t going to have the finger on the pulse of the team this year. Sure he might be around to help with verbal advice, but, this is going to be a defining year for RBR, and I’ll be hoping for Riccardio’s sake, that they can fill the void. However, the feeling I get is, that there is 1 Adrian Newey, and Mercedes already have a great pace, Ferrari & McLaren are rebuilding, perhaps not this year, but in 2016, we could well see RBR begin their slide back into the mid-field.
Seba (@f1fan123)
31st January 2015, 13:43
lol
Patrick (@paeschli)
31st January 2015, 20:08
Have to agree with this. You don’t win 4 championships back to back thanks to only 1 man. They have a great team and I don’t see them sliding back into the mid-field for the next 5 years at least.
dragoll (@dragoll)
31st January 2015, 23:38
@paeschli @f1fan123 While I understand your points of view. But you look at the situation last year, yes RBR had arguably the best aero package, but the problems started mounting with the Engine, and a continuation of the electrical/kers issues that they’ve had for many years with aggresive approaches to kers/battery packages in the car.
If their only shining light from 2014 was that they had the best aero package, doesn’t it seem only logical to worry about a significant change in the staffing of the aero team, of anyone in that department, let alone the man that spear headed that department for many years. If you take away the capability factor, this man Rob Marshall, to not only do his job, but step up and take over duties from Newey, and everyone around him will also need to do the same as they get comfortable in their new roles that come with different and probably increased responsibilities. Its no small change.
Davej
31st January 2015, 14:56
Sensible points you make there mate. I think it’s important to note though that even though Adrian Newey was the technical director he would have had a team around him that also played a critical role. These are the unsung heroes if you ask me, YES Adrian is an absolute legend but that’s not to say that there isn’t talent to replace him. I mean as the cliche goes no one is irreplaceable.
Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
31st January 2015, 16:40
Wonder what they weren’t doing with Renault before, that they are now?
It’ll be interesting to see how the Renault four get on. There’s potential for the two teams to work together in a way that, say, Williams and Lotus never could. Will there be a power deficit again, and if so can they overcome it using smart tactics and strategy? (plus whatever Toro Rosso did to be so quick in a straight line)
Iestyn Davies (@fastiesty)
31st January 2015, 17:08
@bullfrog It might just be that exclusivity.. RB/TR will be similar cars, so they can fit perfectly with Renault going forwards. Same for McLaren/Honda, Merc and Ferrari. I think Williams mirrors Merc, so yes, Force India, Sauber and Lotus will be trying to mirror the works teams.
Ferrari will be only down about 30hp this year, not 60 apparently (they found 80hp, Mercedes 50, but used most of their tokens), which is roughly 0.5-0.7sec per lap. Renault will probably be similar, I forget if they will use more tokens in the year, which also gives more for Honda to use.
Supremacy (@supremacy)
31st January 2015, 18:33
Interesting how there’s more interest in Newey than Vettel leaving.
The star of the team is supposed to the driver.
N T
31st January 2015, 19:06
+1 I think this will confirm what everyone else suspected: that Vettel won these championships not because of his talent, but due to a superb car designer.
Omarr-Pepper
31st January 2015, 19:25
@supremacy all the fuss about Ferrari was also about Domenicalli, Mattiaci and Di Montezemolo. Alonso is not mentioned alongside the others when the article is about the team. So it’s the same thing here
ben (@dubaemon)
31st January 2015, 23:29
what about vettel becoming a father? i think that would put a different light onto vettel s approach for last year. maybe he took it as a gap year and his hunger to win left after 4 WDC. these guys are highly trained and efficient but are still human, that is what i like about drivers is to follow their ups and downs and how they come back from a bad result. Vettel became more human to my eyes last year, lets see him fighting back.