Ferrari believe they have caught up to Red Bull

F1 Fanatic Round-up

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In the round-up: Sergio Marchionne, the president of Ferrari, says his team is at Red Bull’s level.


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Ferrari 'on par with Red Bull' ahead of Australian GP (Motorsport)

"The car is there, the drivers are excited. We will be on par with Red Bull when we get to the circuit."

Alonso out of Aussie GP (The Telegraph)

"Aki Hintsa, McLaren's team doctor, is understood to have been involved as part of Alonso's medical team throughout."

Mercedes made Force India test viable (Autosport)

"Mercedes paid Force India to run its reserve driver Pascal Wehrlein at the second Formula 1 test, which made it financially viable for the Silverstone-based team to test at Barcelona."

Less is more for Silverstone organisers (Reuters)

"A promotion offering 1,000 Sunday general admission tickets for 99 pounds ($150) each was sold out in 22 minutes."

How quick will McLaren be in Melbourne? (MotorSport Magazine)

"The engine has been running in a very de-tuned state in order just to get testing mileage onto the car. Assuming that can be rectified in time for Melbourne, and that there are no further gremlins as yet undiscovered, a 2014 Red Bull-like quantum leap from testing misery to first race competitiveness would not be so surprising."

The forgotten story of Jochen Rindt (The Guardian)

"Rindt certainly did not lack that arrogance all top sportsmen need to have."


Comment of the day

Why we shouldn’t underestimate the severity of Fernando Alonso’s accident:

Having had a head injury myself I can say that these things are massively complicated. Mine was face-butting a car, but you could say that because I had clear facial injuries and a broken jaw then you could look at me and say I wasn’t OK.

Alonso was wearing a helmet, but because you can’t physically see his injuries and he says he is OK it doesn’t mean that a second impact like that in the space of a month wouldn’t cause him permanent damage. Dale Earnhardt’s crash looked like nothing and that killed him.

From the forum


Jenson Button was on hand to show off Honda’s NSX supercar at the Geneva Motor Show, while Mercedes displayed their world championship-winning W05.

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A late arrival to the 2010 championship appeared on this day five years ago. HRT launched their Dallara-designed F110 chassis and confirmed its second driver, Karun Chandhok, alongside the already-announced Bruno Senna:

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86 comments on “Ferrari believe they have caught up to Red Bull”

  1. I don’t believe Redbull showed their full hand during testing. Also their long runs seemed to be a lot better than Ferrari’s, and these cars are also very much circuit dependent so what we think is the pecking order now may very well change at Albert Park because of the nature of the circuit. So Ferrari cannot say with any confidence that they are on par with Redbull.

    1. However, random commenter of forum can say with confidence that Ferrari and all their data + driver input + having a driver that drove the Red Bull + said driver would would have first hand knowledge of where red bull left off at the end of 2014, is wrong.

    2. So Ferrari cannot say with any confidence that they are on par with Redbull

      No they can, even though i still believe that even Mercedes doesn’t have a chassis as good as the RBR chassis, the Renault engine is still their Achilles’ heels. This year’s Renault PU is more powerful than the previous one but it still lacks driveability on the other hand Ferrari have improved their car in all the area chassis,aero,suspensions… and this year’s Ferrari PU is a lot more powerful than last year’s PU, plus Vettel drove the RB10 and the SF-15

      1. You can never trust Ferrari until we get to Q3 at Melbourne. This has been the case over the last 5 years or so. They have always looked in testing, and in practice, but come Q3, they’re always found wanting. Ferrari maybe better than last year, but everyone else has improved as well.
        They will still fill their customary 5th place on the grid at Melbourne, unless Vettel can find his prodigious one lap pace again. Here’s a punt for the top 5 at Melbourne:
        Hamilton – Rosberg – Riciardo- Bottas – Vettel

        1. IIRC, Ferrari had issues with qualifying early when Alonso joined the team. Their race pace would be a lot better. They have been trying to address that issue ever since.

          But specifically last year they had issues with MGU-H/MGU-K? If I am not wrong, they were not able to generate as much energy from those components as Mercs and hence the problem with race pace. The issue mostly didn’t surface during Qualfiying as they could use the outlap to gain energy for the hot lap. Also they had issues with the brake-by-wire tech which along with others contributed to the poor pace of the car. I remember Kimi spinning a couple of time all by himself under braking during testing.

          My main point of contention is that the PU was a bigger differentiatior last year than any of them before. Ferrari having made changes and making the car more drivable, should challenge at the top more frequently than last year.

        2. I hate to say this but I think people are overrating Daniel Ricciardo alot.

      2. @tifoso1989

        even though i still believe that even Mercedes doesn’t have a chassis as good as the RBR chassis

        I never understood the basis for this belief. Mercedes dominated on every aero-demanding circuit of 2014, and people still question whether they have a chassis as good as anyone else out there?

        1. @kingshark
          I dont doubt Merc but i feel people come to this because Newey creation were restricted by severe Engine Disadvantage. So naturally they need to do aero gains with out making them sitting ducks on the straights compared to Mercedes they are able to put on even more downforce and yet get high top end speeds to make overtakes (if needed).
          So Do Mercedes has great chassis yes. Do RBR has Great chassis until Renault get up to task we can’t say but considering their disadvantage and yet able to come close to Mercedes lot of people will feel RBR has the #1 or equal #1 Chassis

          1. that is cause RB have flexible parts, hidden springs and what else they can get away with.

        2. @kingshark, I think it is just automatically assumed by a number of posters that Red Bull must have had a great chassis because they had Newey on board. That is despite the fact that Fernley, over at Force India, stated quite explicitly that he believes Mercedes had a superior aero package to Red Bull in 2014.

        3. @kingshark Red Bull openly admitted that because of the horse-power deficit of the engine, they had to run the car with shallower wings. If they’d run them in essentially 2013-spec, they could start a GP in first and second and then drop to the back of the midfield by the first corner.

          Conversely, Mercedes had such a foreknowledge of their horsepower advantage that they could design the cars with ssentially barn doors for wings, meaning more inherent downforce.

        4. @kingshark The power delivery of the Renault engine was poor compared to the Mercedes, and for the same reasons that @optimaximal explained.

        5. that is because the engine advantage was so HUGE. mercedes was like 4th best at the end of 2013, as if they could have made a 2 second difference in aero between then and the start of 2014. it is all engine. they do not need the best car. look at williams, they were 7th best or so and then suddenly nearly 2nd best with the merc engine.

          1. Mercedes was 2nd best at the end of 2013, not 4th best. Secondly, Mercedes went from 5th to 2nd from 2012 to 2013, so why could they not have gone from 2nd to 1st in 2014?

            @optimaximal and @mashiat2
            Mercedes dominated in Monaco, the one race where top speed is almost irrelevant. Likewise, Mercedes destroyed the competition by 50 seconds around Spain, which is a very high-downforce circuit.

            You can’t lose 1 second/lap around Barcelona, you just can’t. In 2003 Renault had an engine that was 60-70 bhp down on BMW and Ferrari, yet they were absolutely up there with Ferrari in Spain (Alonso finished 5-6 seconds behind Schumacher). Where is the “underpowered engine” excuse now?

          2. @kingshark Just because a circuit is a high-downforce one it doesn’t mean the influence of aerodynamics will be enough to compensate for a power deficit. If the Mercedes engine was that much more powerful than the Renault (which it seems it was) no amount of aerodynamically prowess would compensate that. Of course, that also means it’s impossible to know if the RBR chassis was actually better, but without hard facts (which no one really has), it’s also difficult to say it’s wrong.

            Also your example of 2003 was just very silly.

      3. of course they can, Vettel has given them all of RBs sneaky little secrets, hence the reason they know they are as fast as RB.

    3. Ah! the Ferrari doubter. Consistent in each and every thread that talks about Ferrari’s performance. Not sure which team he supports but he is sure as hell scared of the red beast catching up to his favorite. My guess, Williams :)

      1. I think that it is a fair point to make, because the general indication from the analysis of the lap times from testing, for what it is worth, seemed to indicate that Ferrari were marginally slower over an extended stint than Red Bull. However, the difference was small (about 0.1s per lap, it seems) and could easily be masked by fuel load differences and other factors, so although the data initially looks to be in Red Bull’s favour, it is hard to tell for certain either way.

        1. Would be helpful if statements are backed with numbers :)

          Taken from JAonF1 site:
          To give fans a sense of the relative pace of the teams we have charted the long runs from Day 2 – Friday (below), which was a good day for running with nice, stable track conditions.
          If we wanted to estimate the underlying pace of the cars from this data it might give us this kind of ranking:

          Fastest – Mercedes
          +0.8-1.0s/lap – Williams
          +1.0-1.2s/lap – Ferrari
          +1.2-1.5s/lap – Red Bull Racing / Toro Rosso
          +1.5-2s/lap – Sauber / Lotus / Force India / McLaren

          If we can apply a caveat across all teams, that would be fair. To imply it is only testing when Ferrari top the sheets and suddenly talk them down when they are low in rankings reeks of desperation. And when it is done in each thread, it goes beyond doubt.

    4. Marchionne never said to the media they’re on par with RB, his words: “We’ll try to catch Mercedes up the best way we can but I won’t delude myself into thinking we’re in front of RB as long as on track results will show it…”

  2. I guess Nico’s car was in Geneva and Ham’s car is at the factory… Is Lewis really sitting on the front wing? How strong is the front wing when stable?

    1. Hamilton: 68kg
      Downforce on front wing at speed: 600 odd kg…

      It’ll probably be OK…

  3. Anyone have any idea what hoody Hamiltons wearing in the photo above and wear I can get one?

    1. It’s by Balenciaga, and I saw it on the Ssense online store. But… I think it was close to US$900. Ouch! It is a nice hoodie though….

    2. 1. Buy white hoodie from kmart. 2 . Get can of weatherproof spray paint.
      3. Saved $900+ now all you need is a W05 + star struck follower/marketing man to take ‘natural’ (i.e stoogy staged) photos & a twitter account to post said drivel.

      JayZ u feeling me bro? (but not in a gay way). Word.

      1. Hahahah, couldn’t have said it better! XD

    3. @DD42 Honestly, why on all Earth would you want to wear something like that?

  4. ColdFly F1 (@)
    4th March 2015, 0:56

    In the case of Honda, the most debilitating problem has been that of ers seals.

    Honda should be able to test a solution on a test rig; not sure if in-car testing is required.

    1. Possibly. I’m not sure that a test rig will be able to replicate all of the shocks and stresses, the PU faces once it’s actually mounted in the car and on the track.

    2. @coldfly – my thoughts exactly. I can’t understand why most of these issues weren’t solved on the dyno. Maybe they weren’t not allowed to mount the engine in a chassis due to regs and lack of cooling is causing these seals etc to break?

      I don’t agree with @thesquared comment above as the engine was breaking after just a handful of laps, and I would have thought they had access to those dyno’s that also simulate shocks.


  5. Good for Ferrari! After all it only took them 5 seasons, 4 drivers, 3 team bosses, and 2 presidents to catch up to Red Bull

    1. ColdFly F1 (@)
      4th March 2015, 1:10

      @f1freek, and adding to the sarcasm ;) – Red Bull is no longer the gold standard.

      But, I truly hope Marchionne is right, as I want Ferrari to be able to play with the ‘big boys’. #BetterLateThanNever

      1. Haha yes, only Williams and Mercedes to catch now.

    2. @f1freek LMAO – COTD right there :)

      And if they still can’t catch them there’s always the politics option :P

    3. And a partridge in a pear tree?

    4. @f1freek

      None of that made them catch up… It was Newey leaving the team that helped Ferrari ;)

  6. I find it really weird that, despite having a ton of sponsorship brought by Sergio Perez (with the addition of the ones that jumped ship from Sauber), Force India is still in financial trouble. Sure, they were never a rich team, but I imagined they would be in better shape by now. Guess their situation is more complex.
    On another note, I was thinking today just what the COTD mentioned: Dale Earnhardt’s crash. It was kinda normal by NASCAR standards and even then with no HANS shunts like that had been survived. That time though, Dale sadly died. So even though Alonso’s looked like a “silly” hit, a concussion’s a concussion. I’m just glad he’s OK and this is just a precaution.

    1. except when ron dennis says it wasn’t a concussion :-)

      1. Maybe it was Ronspeak misinterpreted by the media? :)

        1. perhaps, see the twitter conversation posted above though. Is ronspeak ronspeak when its agitated ronspeak?

      2. ColdFly F1 (@)
        4th March 2015, 4:02

        We should give Ron the benefit of the doubt here. He is quoted as:

        He is physically perfect,
        There is no concussion, anything. He had the symptoms at one stage but nothing that shows (on scans).

        It seems what he said (or tried to say) is that testing showed nothing wrong with FA on Thursday (hence his optimism of racing in Melbourne).
        IANOD, but the reason for missing OZ does not contradict that, it merely states that it is a precautionary measure, eliminating any risk of having a second hit within a couple of weeks.

    2. I think you have to look at it as a cost for return situation. I imagine 4 days of tire testing wouldn’t do much if it was on just the 2014 car. Sure you can get some valuable information from it, but not as much if you were in the 2015 car. Likewise, you aren’t getting any development work done on the chassis, aero, nor are you seeing how the new Power Unit works with the car. Having Mercedes pick up part of the tab, allows both Nico and Sergio to knock the rust off, while also fullfilling Mercedes needs.

  7. In the NHL, repeated concussions have ended the careers of some great hockey players. Thankfully, they have been taken much more seriously in recent years. Here’s hoping it’s first and last time for Alonso.

    1. All well and agreed with on the concussion safety. Absolutely, yet let’s also just presume that being in Melbourne and watching at least one of the Ferrari’s finish on the podium while struggling to finish on the lead lap in the McLaren made it difficult for Alonso or rather an easy choice to sit out.

  8. “A promotion offering 1,000 Sunday general admission tickets for 99 pounds ($150) each was sold out in 22 minutes.”

    Prices go up, few people turn up, organizers wonder what happened. “We got to find a solution! it’s the engine sounds, it’s the drivers that keep changing helmets!”… yeah.

    “Hello, F1? this is logic… yeah, I’m fine, just wanted to tell you: ‘told ya’. Bye!”

    Lower the prices, enjoy the vast attendance… repeat and it’ll never go wrong.

    1. This is true but you would have to sell more than 200,000 at GBP 99 just to pay your GBP 20 mil. fee to FOM, then you have to find the cost of debt service, staff, setup, maintenance etc.

    2. @fer-no65

      Well, your point can’t be contradicted, but the problem is it’s not a long-term viable option, as Bernie’s fees have to be paid. I am sure if all of the Silverstone GA tickets were £99 and the grandstands around double that, they would sell out in no time, but Silverstone would be bankrupt.

      The cost of F1 tickets is insane. Last Sunday I was lucky enough to be in Wellington, New Zealand (the cruise ship I work on docked there) for the day, and I attended the world cup cricket match between England and Sri Lanka. It was a great day’s entertainment, I had a fantastic seat, and it cost the equivalent of £25, about 10% of a seat at a GP.

      F1 needs a big rethink on ticket prices. I must say also that the current cars are not very impressive live, I know lots of people don’t think this noise issue is important to them, and I accept we all have our own views on this, but to my mind, current GP ticket prices simply do not reflect what you get to witness for the outlay.

  9. Ferrari “on par with Red Bull” There might be some good racing going down this season although not likely at the front and at the front I hope MB let’s them race. #GoLewis #3WDC

    1. Toto Wolff confirmed to Crofty that they were going to let their drivers race again this season.

      1. Bring on Belgium then….:)

    2. @rocky Hashtags outside twitter? Seriously? Let’s try to post like normal people, please.

  10. The Guardian article reassures me that it is not nostalgia or rose tinted specs that makes me think the 60’s were the golden era of F1, or would have been had it been safer, one of my most indelible memories of F1 (actually F.Tasman for pedants) was of J. Rindt flying down the S/F straight at Warwick Farm (Sydney) in pouring rain with a huge rooster-tail behind him, while others were tippy-toeing around and sliding off the track, how he managed to continue at great speed still with the rooster tail around the rest of the track is a mystery but he did it, I don’t remember the year, the car, the sound or anything else, just the awesome demonstration of speed and control on a flooded track.

    1. The title “The forgotten story of Jochen Rindt” feels kinda strange. Maybe it´s due to being a german living in Austria, but I thought every F1-fan knew that story. One of the more known champions of the past, a name that, even though having never seen him race, has a huge ring to it.

      1. @crammond It wouldn’t make sense to use that title on F1 Fanatic, but The Guardian is a general interest publication so it’s a different matter. Besides which, I think it’s part of a series called “The forgotten story…” where they profile various different people.

  11. When I read the comments today about Alonso missing the OZ GP for the much needed rest after concussion, the first thing that came to my mind was the news snippet when Ron dismissed the case of concussion for Alonso. Somewhere I felt that Ron was not completely honest that day. While I don’t believe there is any conspiracy out there, I think that a person in Ron’s position needs to be much more accurate about these stuff.

    Reg Ferrari Close to the Bulls lets wait for a few more weeks. No point speculating. 2018 Seems reasonable. But yeah if you ask Fernando Back on 2010 we all said 2014 seems resonable !!!!

  12. To be honest I give Mclaren a 50/50 chance of getting one of their cars to the finish line and even less odds of that being in the points from their testing form. It would be a bad choice to put Alonso at risk with so little to gain.

    Head injuries can be a mixed bag. I don’t think many people realise how much of a miracle it is Massa returned to racing and is still competitive at that.

  13. It is kind of sad that despite changes to the PU, Ferrari have only managed to catch up with RB (their belief). If this is a target of achieving the second best after Mercedes, I am happy. But I hope they have not overlooked Williams as well.

    Hope they are able to develop positively and close the gap to Mercs.

    1. They seem to have dropped expectations year on year . In 2010 with a stellar Alonso arriving, they targeted the championship. In 2011, they were hoping to stay aheaf of Mclaren for P2. In 2012, their driver was stellar, but the car was rubbish, they should have been glad with where they finished. In 2013, they targetted 2nd place again. 2014 they tried for 3rd… and failed.

      2015, they are again targeting beating the 3rd quickest team

      1. I think they will be back to the best of the rest this season. Kimi or Vettel will particularly shine with the car I think.

        It is a disappointment that they have been left to fight for scraps but it is their own undoing. Hope the PU changes and the personnel changes help them rise up the ladder.

        They still are not able to come to terms with the increased amount of competitors I suppose (my theory). They seem too focused on one team while they turn a blind eye to the others closing in.

        In Schumi days, the fight was mostly with McLaren or Williams (some times) but Schumi was consistent (along with Byrne, Brawn, Todt) which helped in gaining trophies at a canter. Scenario is different these days.

        1. Ferrari could use Fiorano for unlimited testing, additionally, they had a team that could completely capitalise on the fact that they had a circuit at their diposal. It was the engineering and management dream team.. so it’s not fair to even compare those years with these.

          1. It might be true for using Wind Tunnel simulations instead of track. But to get it wrong severely in engine part leads me to believe that there is no leader or innovator right now in Ferrari.

            Frankly I expected a Merc vs Ferrari fight at the start of the new regulations. Hope they are at least able to out develop Renault.

  14. I read someone saying that modern F1 helmets are all overdesigned, but the Williams drivers’ helmets this year are pretty simple. Not bad at all, if you ask me. I’m not too fond of the colour scheme on Massa’s, but Bottas’ is very pleasing on the eye.

    1. I like Bottas’ one, too. It’s as if he had Martini stripes in mind back when he designed it.

  15. Neil (@neilosjames)
    4th March 2015, 4:11

    Wonder how British GP ticket inflation compares with other goods like petrol, cheese, beer, bacon… pretty sure it was less than £99 general admission (regular price) around 2000-ish.

  16. I believe Sergio Marchionne when he says that Ferrari is around Red Bull’s level, as based on testing form at Barcelona (quali simulation times and long-runs) it seemed to me as if the pecking order behind Mercedes goes Williams, Ferrari, then Red Bull (though all very close together, so it’s really all to play for).

    However, it should be noted that Barcelona is a downforce reliant circuit, which should give the advantage to Red Bull (with their good chassis) and disadvantage Williams (who are at their best on circuits requiring more power). Ferrari seem to be the middle ground (having a chassis that is better than Williams’ but worse than Red Bull’s, while having a PU that is worse than Mercedes’ but better than Renault’s).

    Given that they are so close together on a ‘downforce’ circuit, on a ‘regular’ circuit I would expect the pecking order to be more clearly Williams > Ferrari > Red Bull, with those differences increasing the more power-reliant the track is.

    However, I get the feeling that there is more to come from Red Bull and/or Renault (there are rumours that Red Bull are trying to crash test a shorter, more Mercedes-like nose, and when it passes they will be able to bring several other upgrades around the rear of the car that require the new nose in order to work properly. I should reiterate that these are rumours), so I wouldn’t be surprised if they made a small jump forward over their testing form. If they do indeed end up behind Ferrari and Williams though, it will be interesting to see if Renault’s expected mid-season upgrade (courtesy of Mario Illien) will allow them to move back up the pecking order.

    1. I am pretty sure the shorter nose for RBR is not a rumour but in fact something the team confirmed they are working on @polo.

      And yes, RBR do plan to work on the engine with Renault to get better during the year, and its possible that (like in past years) they will have more fancy bits even for the first race as they like to leave it very late to introduce them.

      1. The nose is confirmed it just hasn’t passed the crash tests yet.

      2. @bascb Ah ok, good to know it’s not just a rumour, thanks! Since Red Bull left it as late as possible to build their 2015 car, it makes sense that they might not have brought as many upgrades during the tests as some other teams.
        I am fully expecting them to bring several upgrades for Melbourne in that case.

  17. What took HAM so long?! Finally….. hommie-style photos in F1! That’s the way to go, bro…

  18. I follow combat sports closely and if someone gets hit a lot not even a KO, they get suspended for 6 months from training and competiton so this is nothing new to me

  19. Re the tweet by Ben Evans, I don’t follow the thinking, why will it be less enjoyable if we fully understand the effects of concussion, more safety for drivers by compulsory time off won’t detract from the overall spectacle, it will mean its better for the most vulnerable…the drivers.

    1. ColdFly F1 (@)
      4th March 2015, 10:39

      @smudgersmith1, you’re not the only one. 1 retweet so far!

  20. I think its too soon to say that ferrari now in same level again with red bull because last year the ferrari pu always have trouble to harvesting energy , but i see from this past test already there was a sign of significant change in ferrari pace i dont know if they already solve the problem but i think if they’re already solve it im sure it will 4 way battle at the front with merc redbull and williams

    1. I mean at the quali pace i see three time in jerez that Vettel and Raikkonen at the top of the time sheet but if the talk is about race pace i dont know what to say .

  21. OK, we’ve heard often enough that running an engine on a dyno does not replicate all the stresses. Perhaps there are some regulations that prevent running recent F1 cars even by an engine manufacturer, not a team. But here’s what I don’t get: If I were spending untold millions on a development of a new engine, I would have bought a five years old F1 car on sale, put the engine in the back and let it run round like a squirrel in a cage. Why didn’t Renault and now Honda do it? Actually, Honda might have bought the 2014-spec F1 car from Marussia on Christmas sale and run it without any problem, as there was no team to penalize for that by FIA at the time.

  22. Jenson served Honda driving for team Brackley, Honda moved out, Jenson moves to Woking, and…….he’s with Honda again.


    1. ColdFly F1 (@)
      4th March 2015, 10:43

      Honda probably wants to see the 2009 WDC trophy which they ‘funded’. @davidnotcoulthard

      1. @coldfly But the WCC is more prestigious. Buyt yeah, I guess the WDC trophy was as close as it was going to get for now for Honda.

  23. Looking GOOD Lewis!

    As always.

    1. Jenson’s looking…not so good.
      Bloke on right: “What are they making you wear this time?!”
      JB: “I’m representing Fernando as well, so I’ve got his trousers on.”

    2. @supremacy You mean the cheap “gangsta” look and the overly-posed pic? Or am I missing something?

      1. @Dante LOL.. more like “sulking cause Uncle Toto says NO to £1m per week”

  24. Love love love that Honda NSX…Acura here in North America.

  25. just cancelled by sky subscription as i have been told that they will no longer be offering there additional content video options on there website :(

    having access to the in-car camera feed on a second screen (that been my laptop) was one of the prime reasons i decided to sign upto sky to watch there coverage. i also used to have the pits channel up for the team radio & not having access to those things this year is a big negative for me, really irritated about this.

    the fia better come up with an online video service offering those additional video options soon as i’ll really miss having them :(

  26. It doesn’t matter what Ferrari believe, does Vettel believe he can catch up to Ricciardo.

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