Christian Horner, Red Bull, Sepang International Circuit, 2015

Engine situation could force Red Bull out – Horner

2015 Malaysian Grand Prix

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Christian Horner says Red Bull could be left with no option other than quit Formula One as it may find itself without an engine supplier.

During the Australian Grand Prix weekend Red Bull motorsport director Helmut Marko was quoted saying the team’s owner Dietrich Mateschitz might “lose his passion” for F1 and his team could leave the sport if it was “totally dissatisfied”.

However during a press conference today Horner said Marko’s words should be taken as meaning the team could forced into leaving Formula One.

“I think you have to – like with all these things – look at the context that comment was made in,” said Horner. “I didn’t make that comment, it was a comment by Helmut”.

“And I think what he was trying to refer to was that should we find ourselves in a situation where… we could ultimately find ourselves without an engine supplier. Should Renault choose to withdraw from Formula One, Mercedes wouldn’t supply Red Bull with an engine and Ferrari – it’s unlikely we’d be in a position to take a Ferrari engine. So you could find yourself actually forced out of the sport.”

Renault has been linked to a takeover of the Toro Rosso team but managing director Cyril Abiteboul has also said it could reduce its involvement in F1.

Red Bull receives preferential financial terms from Bernie Ecclestone and CVC because it has committed to Formula One until 2020. However Horner said its continued participation depends on whether it is getting value for money.

“As with any company Red Bull again reviews its return on investment,” said Horner. “Is Formula One developing for Red Bull as a brand? There are some worrying signs when we see races like we saw in Melbourne”.

“But hopefully that’s one chapter in a long story. I think there’s a long season ahead of us. Red Bull want to compete, Red Bull want to be in Formula One and we want to try and address some of the issues that are currently plaguing the sport that we don’t seem to be able to find any traction on”.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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110 comments on “Engine situation could force Red Bull out – Horner”

  1. Todd (@braketurnaccelerate)
    27th March 2015, 10:27

    Don’t let the door hit ‘ya on the way out.

    1. They’re trying hard to victimise themselves. But for some reason, I still feel no pity for them.

      1. I mean, look at that:
        “And I think what he was trying to refer to was that should we find ourselves in a situation where… we could ultimately find ourselves without an engine supplier. Should Renault choose to withdraw from Formula One, Mercedes wouldn’t supply Red Bull with an engine and Ferrari – it’s unlikely we’d be in a position to take a Ferrari engine. So you could find yourself actually forced out of the sport.”

        Renault withdrawing? Were’d he get that from? Last thing we’ve heard is them considering a come-back as manufacturer.
        Mercedes wouldn’t supply them if need be? Is that really so, or does he not want them to want to supply them?
        Not in a position to take a Ferrari engine? What’s that mean? Does he not want to? Do you have to apply for a Ferrari engine and qualify by fulfilling some obscure prerequisites?
        And what about Honda?

        I think he meant to explain his thoughts and considerations, but out came a tale told by an id…, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

        1. @nase

          Renault withdrawing? Where’d he get that from?

          In the same press conference Cyril Abiteboul talked about the possibility of Renault scaling back its F1 commitment, as linked to above.

          1. @keithcollantine
            I stand corrected.

      2. Horner is just getting a ride on the back of Abiteboul comments. Marko did not mean that, we are not stupid.

        1. Yes but he is just taking another opportunity to throw shade on Mercedes—Oh mean old Mercedes won’t even share their engines with us because they are just here to ruin everything. In any case the comments from Renault make no difference. Mercedes execs would say exactly the same thing about their future involvement in the sport: “it depends.” In any case, RBR have enough money and resources to partner with Judd, Cosworth, Hart, whatever to make an engine. They could even lure in a major manufacturer if they wanted like Ford or VAG with a competitive chassis and racing operation and the valuable Red Bull brand association. They have a lot of options besides just whining.

          1. @dmw
            You’re right, but I get the feeling that the whining was part of the PR strategy from the beginning. It’s like they need someone to peck on in case things aren’t going the way they like. It’s not only Renault who’ve suffered shrill criticism, there was also the streak of alternator problems where they more or less blamed it on Magneti Marelli being italian and saying that so often that one only needed to connect the dots to understand what they were saying.
            If Red Bull were a person, he’d get punched a lot.

    2. Exactly what I would say to them. It’s a shame, there must be hundreds of hard working honest racers in the factory, but unfortunately as a whole, the team is a nuisance, an evil force in F1 and don’t represent the racing spirit.

      FIA should adjust the criteria when evaluating newcomers. To grow the grid with RACING teams, like Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, etc. With the limited amount I know, Haas might have been a good choice in this aspect. (If there was any choosing involved, doubt it)

      1. The team wouldn’t close. It’s too valuable. It would be sold to someone else, likely a manufacturer, would be effectively forced to compete honourably.

        Red Bull get away with pushing the boundaries because their brand is seen as edgy and extreme. A big auto manufacturer just has to be seen as playing fair and by the rules, else people will relate such activities to their regular products.

        I wouldn’t buy an Audi that has wings that bend to go faster, but could break at any minute. I would, however, buy one that’s been invested in and built to be fast & reliable – basically what Mercedes is currently doing!

        1. Red Bull get away with pushing the boundaries because their brand is seen as edgy and extreme.

          @optimaximal They get away with pushing the boundaries because thats a big part of what F1 has always been about.

          Every team that has had any success in F1 has always pushed the boundaries in some way at some point & there is absolutely nothing wrong with them doing that.

          1. Within the letter and spirit of the rules, yes. Red Bull never seemed to get the memo about the latter.

    3. Success does funny things to people. Remember the party team that had DJ sets at the end of races, Mark Webber somersaulting into swimming pools, win or loose there was a good vibe, seems a long time now.

      Horner needs to lighten the hell up, his perpetual negative comments about the sport or their suppliers is damaging the brand more than anything that happened at Melbourne.

      1. I know, people should shut up and just keep on lying, it’s good for business. Who needs the truth when you have money in the bank.

  2. Peppermint-Lemon (@)
    27th March 2015, 10:40

    I think red bull be better as title sponsor to VAG if their team is bought by them and branded Audi or Bugatti.

  3. Lewis was spot on when he said Red Bull was “Just a drinks company” a few years ago…

    1. @smfreegard Yes and Mercedes are “just a car company”. What makes you think the mentality at Mercedes is any different?

      1. Gee, a car company involved in Motorsport… hmmm… What makes you question their mentality?

        1. @chapor Their business is selling cars, and Red Bull’s business is (partyly) selling energy drinks. But ultimately both are in motorsport for the same reason – to build their brand and promote themselves. Not their products. The Mercedes F1 car has as much to do with a forecourt Mercedes as it does with a can of Red Bull.

          Large corporations don’t just go racing for the sheer joy of motorsport. They do it because there is a business justification for it. For the money they put in, there is an expectation of a return on investment. While they’re getting a return on that investment, they are happy and they’ll remain. But as soon as they no longer see that return, they’ll wind up the operation and do something else.

          Renault, BMW, Toyota, Honda, all have had full factory operations which have been canned in the past decade. Being a car manufacturer doesn’t mean you’re in F1 for the fun of it. They’re all businesses whether they make cars, canned drinks, or anything else. They remain while it makes business sense, and they leave when it doesn’t.

          1. You answered yourself in the first part of the commentary! Mercedes is a CAR manufacturer, so it’s natural and the 1st thing to participate in (CAR) motorsport in order to improve the brand. RBR is an energy drinks company, so all they need is advertising space. Could be on a car, but could be on a building also. So… selling drinks successfully it’s very possible w/o any implications to cars, but selling cars successfully w/o any implications with stuff related to cars… it’s a looooot harder.

          2. @Corrado I don’t agree with your reasoning. There are plenty of car companies doing well who have nothing to do with motorsport. Hyundai? (at least as far as I am aware). Car companies just as often attach their brands to things which have nothing to do with cars, as Red Bull does in associating its drinks brand to F1 cars. To say that Red Bull only needs advertising space whereas a car company needs to use motorsport is incorrect. Red Bull are into F1 because the extreme speed and (perceived) ‘edginess’, ‘on the limits’ image of F1 matches the Red Bull brand.

          3. There are plenty of car companies doing well without motorsport but let’s be honest here – when you think of Hyundai, are you putting them in the same picture as Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren and Lotus?

            They don’t require the same brand exposure that Ferrari. That’s why when Ford bought the Stewart team, they branded it Jaguar instead of Ford.

          4. However MB-AMG currently sell the most powerful (by a long way) small car turbo engine, the synergy in both sales and technical development are obvious.

        2. @chapor There is a huge difference between car companies involved in motorsport to sell road cars and racing teams that may or may not have begun to sell cars in order to finance their racing. Maybe the whole financial problem of todays F1 is just the ending of one big bubble created when those car-companies got into F1 since the 80ies and all they have done and spent since then, and F1 will only ever really work out again when all these are gone, and it´s only racing teams again.

          1. @crammond, I just found the comparison of mentality between a car manufacturer, that has been involved in grand prix racing since the early 1900’s, and a soft drinks company just plainly laughable…

          2. @chapor Well, yes, while one of those started racing as soon as he could afford it, the other one, after being out of it for decades, decided to get back in again after heavy calculations and in a very tight vote of the managment board, as their brand was increasingly associated with old, slow drivers.

          3. @crammond, quick question, what is your argument exactly?

          4. @chapor Merc isn’t fitting to F1 any better than Red Bull, and they will leave when it no longer fits them, and them leaving will be good for F1, as F1 has to get rid of everyone expecting a return of investment to get back to its roots.

          5. @crammond, so let me get this straight, you want everyone to leave F1 that is expecting a return on their investment…?

          6. “Merc isn’t fitting to F1 any better than Red Bull”

            Wow. Just…. wow!

            Mercedes make their own power units – the best power unit currently available in F1.

            Red Bull cannot make power units – they are in fact worried they will be left without anyone wanting to supply them.

            Mercedes’ reasons for being in f1 include brand promotion, technological advances that they can use on their road cars (fuel efficiency etc) and to sell their products (the power unit)

            Red Bull exist for brand promotion and……?

        3. Why Mercedes being a “car company” make any difference?

          The following were all car companies (And most were major ones at that!).
          – Renault (as constructor)
          – Honda
          – BMW
          – Jaguar
          – Toyota
          – Alfa Romeo
          – Marussia (To a degree, although I don’t think they ever built a car)
          – Lotus
          – Aston Martin
          – Bugatti
          – Lola
          – Caterham
          – Spyker

          Even Mercedes stopped all motor racing for a while in the 50’s due to an accident at Le Mans.

      2. Because they aren’t racing motordrinks?

        1. They aren’t racing Mercedes road cars either

      3. Because it’s clear that Red Bull use ‘extreme’ activities such as Motorsport, Motocross, X-Fighters, etc. solely as marketing opportunities for their poison where they usually sponsor the most promising drivers or teams.

        Sure – Mercedes as a factory team had been out of the sport for a long time, but Ferrari, McLaren etc. have been on the grid and have a lot of F1 history and therefore know the nature of the sport. They also have cars to sell and engine technology to improve, so their incentive to stay is rather more greater than the drinks company, who will cut and run whenever they decide the marketing benefit outweighs the cost.

        1. McLaren and Ferrari are the only two examples of that. And both of them are poor examples, since neither actually started out as car manufacturers. They are both F1 teams which have built road cars to fund their racing. In McLaren’s case, they have only very recently become a ‘proper’ car manufacturer. Ferrari’s F1 and road car operations are indivisible, and there’s a very symbiotic relationship there which would make it impossible to cancel one or the other.

          For basically every other car manufacturer over the past few decades, the mentality has been EXACTLY the same as that of Red Bull – it’s a promotional exercise and nothing else. They’re funding an F1 team, to gain exposure for their brand. If they stop getting a return on that investment, then they will pull out. We’ve seen it time and time again.

          1. @mazdachris, I think when Hamilton made that comment, he was in fact comparing Red Bull to McLaren and Ferrari:
            http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/mar/21/red-bull-lewis-hamilton

          2. @adrianmorse Indeed, and yet it keeps getting repeated by people recently to knock red bull as if their situation were unique. It’s just as stupid a comment now as it was when Hamilton said it.

      4. @mazdachris All brands are involved in sport to get something out of it. The question is what…

        You can argue that when Red Bull is not winning, it’s compromised. It’s a brand built entirely on improving yourself and always succeeding – being given wings etc – even though their product tastes like drain cleaner. As an edgy, ‘yoof’ brand, nobody really cared that their cars were sometimes questionably legit – they were winning!
        When the same car is lapped by a car branded with a rival product (Monster) that’s paying significantly less to get their name out there, then it’s questionable whether continued investment is worth while.

        Mercedes, however, can be satisfied with their F1 involvement providing their engine is recognised as the de-facto benchmark for reliability and performance. They supply more teams than anyone else, they’re faster than anyone else AND they’re more reliable, despite the fact that pound for pound, their equipment is much cheaper than their rivals. This is true even if Lewis and Nico trip over each other and someone else beats them to the line.

        They’re simply getting a better return from the sport…

        1. @optimaxal I think you’re basically agreeing with me. Mercedes is a large corporation using F1 as a platform to promote and build their brand image. Exactly the same as Red Bull. There may be a greater synergy between success in F1 and the desirability of their products than there is for Red Bull, but really this is the only distinction. In fact, there are very big similarities between Mercedes and Red Bull – both bought out struggling F1 teams, invested huge amounts, and have taken the spoils. RBR are further over the bell curve than Mercedes, so they’re in the decline at the moment. The problem for them is that as things stand, there’s no way they can actually bring themselves back to the top since their performance is so dependant on an external product.

          I guess the only other alternative would be for Red Bull to actually buy out the Renault powertrain operation and then increase investment. Or have a commercial partner do that. But is that worth the enormous investment when there’s no guarantee they could put in place everything they need to be successful? Hard to say.

          1. Is just much more “natural” a car manufacturer get involved in F1 than a energetic drink brand. Of course even an sex toy business can get in F1 (ok, maybe not the best example… being the fastest won´t be good for them lol).

          2. The argument that Red Bull is ‘the same’ as Merc is frankly ridiculous.

            It is conveniently forgotten that despite a break from F1, (during which they were involved in every form of Motorsport) they have supplied engines to F1 since 1996/7. In other words they have quietly been part of ‘modern’ F1 for a significantly longer time than RB. And achieved far more! In effect they have a solid foundation in F1 without shouting about it, moaning, fussing or crying when its a bit tough. That includes the time when they could only grab two drivers titles in the Ferrari International Assistance years. They did their apprenticeship. They deserve all the success they should hopefully enjoy now and in the future.

            Further, when every other car manufacturer was walking out the door, they stayed the course and invested in a team. And suffered a few years of getting all that back together. Not once was there a moan. And no one can suggest it was not a tough ride.

            Red Bull are the seagull of F1 – fly in, squark a lot and crap on everything when its not going their own way.

            Frankly each and every team Except RB has done the lean years and the up and down curves of Motorsport. RB have no experience of this, no foundation, no conceptual familiarity with such and should knuckle down and get with it. Or clear off because the CH and other RB people are looking like children. It is not often the young drivers are far more mature and sensible than the management but it is so in this case. Look at DR – what a study in sensible commentary? And he is the one driving the car!

            After all if being paid more than Merc despite no longer being ‘champions’ is not enough, well you can see exactly how ridiculous their stance is. Right there with the two year olds in primary school.

            Further, they may want to look at Renaults F1 success over the years before throwing quite so much crap around….

            Lewis was spot on…

            And SV was very very lucky. Look how bad it could have been!

    2. Indeed.

      Just look at Ferrari, Williams, McLaren… ups and downs but they’re still there.

      Big props to Ferrari, and Seb has made a great choice after all.

  4. When did Renault say they were thinking of withdrawing? Last I heard (i.e. today) they are thinking of buying Toro Rosso…we could end up with the delicious situation whereby Toro Rosso are the Renault works team, and Red Bull are customers.

    Red Bull seem to be forgetting that they are relatively young fish in a huge pond. Ferrari, McLaren, Williams and Lotus/Enstone (and you could probably include the Brackley boys in this list as well) have all had as much success as them over the course of the championship, they’ve only been players since 2009 and with their stars (Vettel & Newey) departing, it remains to be seen whether they have the strength in depth to carry on with any semblance of respectability.

    Horner and Marko are starting to sound quite desperate, if Red Bull left then they’d both be out of jobs and what next for them? Horner would be back to tooling round with Arden, and Marko heaven only knows. Interesting times…

    1. @marcusbreese Ciril Aboutaboy mentioned it was one of many options being explored in today’s press conference.

      Honestly, in today’s climate, Renault’s continued participation is actually surprising – they’ve positioned themselves, along with Nissan, as the car alliance that’s most invested in EV but they’ve screwed up their Energy-F1 initiative *so badly* the board are likely looking for any reason to run away.

    2. Interesting fact, if a little off-topic, is that if you were to trace all teams back through previous ownerships (Mercedes to Tyrrell, Force India to Jordan, etc.) then Manor is the only team younger than Red Bull, Red Bull having been founded as Stewart in 1997. I think that’s pretty indicative of the state F1 is in when nobody has successfully started a team from the ground-up in nearly 20 years.

    3. Should Renault choose to withdraw from Formula One…

      They have indeed suggested it. Of course, they’ve only suggested as much as a response to the manner in which Red Bull themselves have criticised them…

      Basically, Red Bull are saying that if their own assassination of their engine supplier forces said supplier to leave, Red Bull will be without a supplier. There’s an obvious solution to this somewhere…

      It makes McLaren-Honda’s approach to accepting to situation and knuckling down seem even more logical than it should already appear.

      1. *accepting the situation

  5. Pitiful. They came into F1 with a refreshing philosophy but they’d do well to look at Williams who kept their heads when they fell as far as they could. Nobody likes whingeing bullies. Good riddance.

    1. …but they’d do well to look at Williams who kept their heads when they fell as far as they could.

      Really? Williams pre-2014 should serve as a prime example of how *not* to act when the cards aren’t right. It was a shambles until Pat Symonds moved from Marussia & started cracking heads together and they gutted all the dead wood.

      1. slightly missing the point….!!!! point is you keep your head when your not winning. you don’t start whingeing, you do something proactive. ok? Like Williams did

  6. And who do Red Bull have to thank for their engine troubles?
    Didn’t Renault want to go to a straight 4 with /MORE/ ERS?

    1. That was just the original spec for the 2014 PU. Ferrari vetoed it because it wasn’t relevant to their road car business, which is understandable. The V6 was the compromise because I believe the Italian marque was pushing for even more cylinders.

      1. Newey (ie Red Bull) was the one who stated a straight 4 wasn’t going to work because of structural issues.

        Ferrari then wanted V8 back and Renault wanted to stick with the straight 4. Renault claimed they already had put much effort in the straight 4 design. The V6 was indeed the compromise reached.

        But I guess the point was that Red Bull and Renault were the ones most vocal about switching to a new engine spec because they felt their engine was the least powerful. Ferrari and Mercedes would have rather kept the V8.

        1. Is Porsche considering F1 involvement? The situation is just about ripe to see that happening.

          1. Yes, a 6 cylinder boxer engine – air cooled – for F1 would be interesting;-)
            On a serious note, I don’t think we can hope for Porsche in F1. More probable to see BMW back as engine supplier I think.

  7. Red Bull may need to hope that a new power unit supplier will be willing to join or rejoin F1, otherwise they could well and truly be stuck. You can kind of see why Red Bull would be reluctant to become a power unit manufacturer if all they will do with the facilities is build Formula 1 power units, especially as they do not have a similar presence in any other form of motorsport as they do in this category. It just wouldn’t really be very clever from a financial perspective, unless they supply multiple other teams, in which there are few without a long-term contract to their current power unit suppliers.

    I do believe that another issue which Red Bull has is that this new formula could well benefit the manufacturer as oppose to the privateer. We have seen that works teams will get priority over new software and things like that as oppose to customer teams (Force India confirmed this in the press conference earlier) and that will give an advantage. We can also hypothesise that the two strongest teams in F1 at the moment are Mercedes and Ferrari i.e. the only two works teams currently in the sport. With the sharp increase in power and the restrictions in the aerodynamic department, we are seeing a shift into Formula 1 being more about power unit performance and mechanical grip as oppose to sticking as much downforce on the car as physically possible, so of course this will play into the hands of the Mercedes and the Ferraris of the sport. This might well be a reason why Renault are considering purchasing Toro Rosso.

    One approach Red Bull could take is a similar approach to McLaren, and secure an exclusive deal with a manufacturer willing to join or rejoin the sport, but as we already know with McLaren, if it works, it could take a very long time to get right.

    1. Note: I had to re-read my comment and change ‘engine’ to ‘power unit’ way more times than I would have liked!

    2. One approach Red Bull could take is a similar approach to McLaren, and secure an exclusive deal with a manufacturer…

      Something which they effectively have now… Ofc, it’s not Red Bull’s fault that Renault tried to please everyone with custom-built engines to suit all their customers (unlike Mercedes & Ferrari who basically said “here’s the engine, cheers”) and just ran into even more issues.

    3. I do believe that another issue which Red Bull has is that this new formula could well benefit the manufacturer as oppose to the privateer

      @craig-o : If its proven that the new formula could well benefit the manufacturer as oppose to the privateer, will it not go against the basic principle of Formula 1, that all teams should have an equal opportunity. If the new formula is clearly biased towards the manufacturer’s, what hope does the privateer teams have?

    4. No sympathy… They and Ferrari basically caused this entire issue by undermining FOTA and the fight to cut costs. Everyone else suffered while Horner had that smug smile on his face as he collected trophies. Screw him and screw Montezemolo for this situation. They are to blame- and one is gone. Can’t wait for the other to follow.

  8. It is never a good thing to hear of any team, no matter the grievances, leaving F1.
    That said, Redbull is like the very pretty girl that was so proud of her beauty she was rude to everyone who came to her and ended up being unwanted and lonely.

    But there may still be hope looking at this statement by Horner.

    -Should Renault choose to withdraw from Formula One, Mercedes wouldn’t supply Red Bull with an engine and Ferrari – it’s unlikely we’d be in a position to take a Ferrari engine.

    Specifically mentioning Ferrari might lead one to assume that Mercedes might step in to help. Who knows?

    But considering the team’s records vis-a-vis Renault, is Redbull worth saving? Should Mercedes risk being ridiculed as soon as problems materialise?

    1. * Specifically mentioning the unlikelihood of acquiring a Ferrari power unit, is what I meant to say.

    2. @tata Mercedes won’t be allowed to supply Red Bull because they’re already supplying 4 teams, which I believe is the limit allowed in the regulations.

      It’s also likely that McLaren hold a veto over prospective Honda customers from next year.

      Who knows, Red Bull are legally committed until 2020, so I guess it depends if Didi wants to pay Bernie’s severance fees – it might be cheaper to wait and see if Renault improve or Audi/someone else enters with a competitive PU. My guess is the FIA has seen how Honda is struggling within the development & homologation framework so they’re going to have to revise it if they want more entrants.

      1. It is indeed astonishing that a team that won 4 championships in a row with a car that was at times 30 secs ahead, and who came second in last year’s constructors’ championship is threatening to quit the sport over one season that may result in them finishing lower than 3rd. It shows how much regard these people have for the sport.

        Bernie Ecleston has been quoted today as saying Hamilton is the best champion they have (maybe over stretched but rightfully so when compared to this generation of drivers) due to his near constant promotion of formula one. I have always paid attention over the years to how much the guy promotes the sport in interviews, events, tweets to his millions of fans, encouraging them to come to races and F1 events. Why does he always advertise races? I used to wonder whether he gets extra pay from FOM for that. But he doesn’t.
        It shows you where his heart is.

        When Horner and some people say Redbull have no choice regarding engine suppliers, I say they do. They can mend their fences with Renault, talk with Honda and use their power units for a while untill they lure a major manufacturer into the sport.
        There is always a choice.

        Their choice of probably quiting shows where their heart is. I am indifferent to the team but I don’t want F1 to loose any more teams.

  9. Don’t know what they’re doing in F1 anyway…

    1. Winning championships and embarrassing big car companies… mostly.

      1. Whining and losing is what they are doing.

    2. @corrado-dub : Yeah, same with Williams, Lotus, Force India, Manor, Sauber (kick them all out)

      1. You don’t get it, do you?! It’s just about RBR… and their pathetic whining!!!!! All teams mentioned by you did not win anything at all or for a long time! Still, although they did not win anything (for a looooong time) and they have financial problems too, none of them whined about the “F1 situation” even close to RBR, threatening to leave F1 etc! Do you see McLaren whining, although the current situation is like the worst their history?!

        1. Hold on, are you seriously saying that Ferrari have never whined? Like, genuinely that’s something you believe?

          1. Simon (@weeniebeenie)
            27th March 2015, 17:57

            Foosa didn’t mention Ferrari. @corrado-dub just spoke of the teams he did mention.

  10. This shows why we need more teams like McLaren, Williams, Sauber (and you could also add Haas). Teams that base their business on the sport, and not use it as a marketing tool only. The demise of the privateers will hurt F1 in the long run.

    When so many big companies try to make decisions that benefits them in different ways, it’s up to FIA to take the matter in their hands and guide the sport the way it should go. And I feel that FIA has not done such thing since Mosley days…

    1. @fer-no65 Really, we need multiple privateers actively supported by manufacturers.

  11. I don’t get the big hate on for Redbull at the moment. It’s not like this team is doing anything different in trying to manipulate the governing body than Ferrari was during their dominant period. At least they haven’t been stealing dossiers or organizing intentional crashes.

    1. Honestly @fletch, it is one of the reasons I haven’t been a Ferrari fan since shortly after I started following the sport. I am sure that goes for others too.

      And just this year, Ferrari seem to have turned a page, and are now showing a quite different, more positive and constructive image, making Red Bull’s current attitude, a team who used to claim to be about fun and excellence combined, stand out even more.

    2. I think it’s just carrying over from when Red Bull were the dominant team, now it’s just the same people who were saying they were constantly breaking the regulations with development, the same people who would boo Vettel on the podium, the same people who would champion the other teams for saying the exact same things Red Bull are saying now.

    3. And how many fans did this win Ferrari? Montezemolo and Horner screwed the rest of the F1 teams by undermining FOTA when they were trying to get costs under control. They got their payouts at the expense of everyone else. Why not have a hate on for them? I don’t like Ferrari- but I tolerate their position as they have a lot of history. The fact Horner had a major hand in creating the issue that will drive him out of the sport is sweet irony.

  12. Oh well, it’s been done before. Look what Frank Williams did when he stopped winning all the races.

    Oops, wait a minute! He buckled down and tried harder, didn’t he?

    Take a trip down the pit lane at have a chat with a real man, Dieter…

    After that, if you’re too ashamed to continue competing, I’m sure we’ll all understand.

  13. So long Red Bull, F1 will be a better place without your constant moaning!!!

  14. Scene from the western Tombstone:

    “I just want you to know it’s over”
    “Well, bye”

  15. I suppose it’s too much to hope that Dietrich flounces out of F1 and the only buyer is Audi and they say to CVC “get rid of Bernie and we’re in.”

  16. I’m sure Cosworth would happily build an engine for you :)

  17. Well, having a car without an engine might make an F1 team lose their passion. I totally get that.

    Seriously, I do not want to see Red Bull go, I do not think that they are less worthy racers than, let’s say, Mercedes and I know that they have done a lot for the sport. But I also do not think that the sport should depend on Ferrari, Red Bull or any other team so the FIA and the FOM should simply do what is best for the sport in general. It is Red Bull’s job to find an engine supplier and meet the company’s goals under the current regulations, it is not the others’ job to make Red Bull happy.

    1. These guys ruined FOTA, were instrumental in the strategy group, vetoed any form of RRA of any kind and whinge when they aren’t winning to mummy Bernie. For the long term good of the sport, I’d love to see them bought out.

  18. Renault should be ashamed at themselves for this but it looks like most of the F1 community are actually siding with them and crucifying RedBull! They failed to improve the engine so much that a big team which has been compensating for the deficiencies with their chassis for this long is no longer able to compete.

  19. “lose his passion”

    Who cares if you leave? – your business strategy – there for a decade [won recently 4 years both WDC WCC], earned lot of money, recognition and success & trophies and then all of a sudden, “Let’s get out of here, our days are over and we’ll be better off investing somewhere else” . Hey, maybe they’re right in “their business decision” as F1 may die and what do they have to do with F1 history.

    Ferrari put their heads down and trying to work through. Neither Ferrari nor Mercedes or other teams care RB isn’t there.

    Personally I’d like to see Toyota coming back with their engine and team, it’s lot to ask but they can do it but they’re smart, I wonder they want to invest here in F1, as they’re already doing great in WEC.

  20. I once remember a Renault representative saying that a renewal their F1’s membership would be “conditional” – that condition being a switch to V6s – some people are never happy…

    The switch to an engine formula was incentivised for all manufacturers, since it gave them a guaranteed opportunity to associate a manufacturer marque with a championship victory. The “engine masters” wanted it, Mercedes had disappointed with their V8 powerplant and Renault claimed that V6 powerunits were better in line with their brand and culture of engine development. It’s called sport, gents…

  21. All I can say to Horner is : Why not??? Why would Merc not have them as customers?? Why wouldn´t Ferrari have them as customers?? That is exactly what they have been all along, customers to Renault. They need a PU in order to compete, if the relationship with Renault has gone sour, well I guess it´s time to fish for another supplier. Am I wrong?
    I find it funny he didn´t even take into consideration the Honda PU as sort of thinking it is not even an option! That “over the shoulder look” towards Honda might end up biting him in the rear in the long run. Sure McHonda are nowhere now but I have a gut feeling they will soon get it right and come out guns blazing and then he will want it.
    BTW, I really could care less if they pull out but, if they did, would they have to buy theirselves out of it @keithcollantine ??

  22. I have a solution that would make a lot of people happy: Red Bull, give all of your assets to Manor. Let them race with your gear. Because a team that has a passion for racing beyond just as a business investment is what I keep seeing fans ask for in the comments section. Right now all I keep seeing is a big company saying “we’re number one and making millions or we’re out.” Well, I have heard that from Manor yet…

  23. Courting Honda methinks.

  24. I don’t blame them for pulling out. If you are an engine supply and your not allowed to fix the design flaws in the motor they are essentially forcing you to have a bad reputation. If the rules don’t change for everyone pull out now. Leave Red Bull and TR without a motor all together. Then F1 will at best have a 4 maybe a 6 car race.

    Then no one will come and watch. It is so overpriced, so over regulated the thrill of new designs and concepts are all but gone. Look at what Nissan is doing in Daytona prototype with there front wheel drive and deltawing car. That is the way F1 should go; new ideas new concepts for the future. Let the engineers and designers use there imagination and have fun.

    F1 is more than just Boring. How many cars were passed on track after the first lap of there last race? I counted 4. When you have only 11 cars that finish the race, most being more than a lap behind you have a something that is not worth the time to watch. This spot is over regulated. Not only in how much fuel can you use but also when you can use it. “ You tried to pass a car and used too much fuel for 4.5 seconds so you are disqualified”

    Almost no real world testing and you find out your engine is carp and now you’re not allowed to fix the problem. Bernie Cobblestone dose not want one where the new technologies can be sed. If you want to see some racing watch the world rally championship Irish road racing, or the Isle of Man TT. These are true races where they go all out; man and machine from start to finish.

    F1 has evolved in a way that I don’t appreciate, maybe because I’m from the former generation. But if you say that performances and ideas need to be restricted, then you might as well create a
    one-make series. Formula 1 must remain Formula 1, not a Bernie
    Cobblestone money making machine.

  25. Christian & Cyril, guys, please calm down! There is a way out of this unpleasent situation! Blaming each other is the most destructive one! “UNITED YOU STAND DIVIDED YOU FALL” – the choice is yours.

  26. Please Red Bull, leave. Just go

  27. imo RBR is right on this one. Renault cried for this new engine regulation and threatened to leave F1 otherwise. They produced a lemon and now they are crying again.
    I think they dont need anyone for bad reputation the lemon they produced is alone good enough for them to leave F1 in shame.

  28. The way Horner is suddenly threatening to leave when the going gets tough is annoying.

  29. These are first signs that RBR will leave F1 sooner than later. When Mercedes dominance is broken and they have a few years without success, they will leave too. When they leave the teams will be sold and they will change, but hopefully they will stay in F1, but under new names, new managements, with new engine or manufacturer backup. That is the circle of F1, except for a few stable teams.

    1. These sort of comments make me laugh!

      You clearly have absolutely no idea how long Mercedes have been in modern F1 and I suggest before making such silly comments, you go back and check how long hey have been supplying race winning engines – and stayed and even invested in a team when all others took a walk.
      Numpty…

      1. Mercedes started their modern F1* in 2010 (in the run-up to Red Bull’s period of dominance) and started their engine supplies in 1994, in the wake of their failed attempt to join F1 as a team (said team became Sauber). Either way, Renault and Red Bull’s involvement pre-dates that of Mercedes.

        * – Technically 1954-1955 is “modern F1”, but so far removed from Mercedes’ current involvement that it would be odd to include them.

      2. Entering in the mid-90ies was already the business-era, the “big-company-promotion”-era. That´s not a stable foundation or being rooted in F1. Merc wasn´t in F1 before it was a big business, and they weren´t entering with huge passion but with a 8 vs 7 vote in top-managment, continuation was on as close votes several times.

  30. Aahahaha
    Horner is so funny!

    He reminds of my little daughter.

  31. Seriously doubt this will be an issue. There used to be a rule that if only three engine suppliers were in F1, they had to agree to supply 40% of the grid if asked (it was 60% if two engine suppliers were present and (obviously) 100% for a single-supplier situation). Even with the current fractious situation, I imagine reimposing such a rule would pose few difficulties.

  32. Just leave Horner if you want, but please don’t destroy the team and instead sell it to a real connoisseur who will bring it back to winning ways or at least into dignity because threatening of leaving this way is more or less cowardliness.

  33. This is baffling. The guy who sponsors anything and everything racing, has succeeded at the top rung of racing, yet wants to quit racing. Ferrari were right when they said RB is a drink outfit and would pull exactly what they are doing. I’m kinda hurt. I thought Mr. M was a racer at heart for all he had done for all forms of racing. But when you take the spoils for 4 years straight, you take the bad with the good for the benefit of the sport. We want people who are passionate about racing and let the better team win and have their laurels just like RB did. To now try to deny the other teams of anything stinks like …. .

  34. Daniel (@mechanicalgrip22)
    27th March 2015, 21:28

    In times where F1 is really struggling for teams, fans, race venues, and positive press, the last thing we need is a grown man constantly complaining because his team is no longer in the dominant position. I’m sure everyone in Milton Keynes as well as the Redbull garage appreciates having all of their hard work and passion for racing devalued in the press by none other than their lead chassis designer and their team principle. Perhaps it is time for Horner and Newey to retire and make way for someone who will rise to the challenge instead of crumble under the pressure.

  35. To be fair it’s not just red Bull playing this card. In fact, Mercedes did it first:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/26943423

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