Mercedes’ race problems began in qualifying

55 comments on “Mercedes’ race problems began in qualifying”

1. 

   CountryGent (@countrygent)
   29th March 2015, 18:38

   I felt like much of the race cast Mercedes into territory that had not been simulated. This is not so much a reference to the safety car call, but a reference to having lost track position to a car with serious pace. Mercedes cannot deny this: they did not expect Ferrari to be as fast as they were, otherwise they would have not handed Vettel an opportunity by placing themselves on an asymmetrical strategy. They equally would have not used option tyres in Q1 had they foreseen Vettel’s pace: the prospect of Hamilton’s two stints on the primes almost seemed immaterial to Mercedes prior to the race.

   But why did Mercedes not foresee this pace? Raikkonen was the fastest man on-track during the long-runs in FP2, as he was in Melbourne and the Ferrari looked strong in long-runs in pre-season testing. Yes, testing is testing, and Ferrari have an uncanny habit of flattery, but in Melbourne Vettel dramatically out-gunned Massa with an “overcut” on used tyres! If Mercedes are honest, they will have to admit they were overconfident today.
   1. 

      Slowhands (@slowhands)
      29th March 2015, 19:31

      +1. And that is underlined in the post race reactions of both Toto — a “wake-up call” means you’ve been asleep/overconfident– and Lewis, who usually knows at all times where his closest rivals are point-wise. He had no idea that he and Seb were now even on wins with only the point difference between P2
      1. 

         Slowhands (@slowhands)
         29th March 2015, 19:34

         and P3 separating them. In his mind, he’s had only his teammate to worry about for quite a while. @countrygent
   2. 

      Foosa
      30th March 2015, 5:48

      @countrygent:
      [Wild Theory] Maybe Mercedes let Ferrari have the win, in order to get the focus off themselves and spice up the ‘show’
      1. 

         Tony (@ootony)
         30th March 2015, 10:01

         If that was the plan it was brilliant, brave and successful…
      2. 

         William Stuart (@williamstuart)
         30th March 2015, 22:27

         It would certainly benefit Mercedes as they are less likely to be neutered by Ecclestone now…
   3. 

      Cyclops_PL (@cyclops_pl)
      30th March 2015, 9:47

      Agreed. Mercedes suffered from underestimating the opposition. The pace for the win was there, yet Mercedes seemed to have decided not to use it. They may have thought they didn’t need to utilize all their assets, even in terms of strategy. If this indeed was the case, then we might not see another Ferrari on top for a long time. Merc will not repeat their mistakes.
      1. 

         Robbie (@robbie)
         31st March 2015, 14:23

         I think if Merc underestimated Ferrari on anything it was their ability to do one less stop. They already knew Ferrari was much improved and showing good pace, but they were not so fast that they could have won with an equal number of stops to Merc.
2. 

   matt90 (@matt90)
   29th March 2015, 18:42

   If you’re already limited on option tyres, don’t give up a set after 4 laps. Even without this being compounded by being put into traffic, it seems an obvious oversight. At the time I didn’t realise it was a problem because I underestimated the pace of the Ferrari and their ability to run long on the options, but I had no idea that Hamilton would have to go onto hards for his final stint- even if he’d made much larger inroads before then, he would have struggled to pass Vettel with that strategy.
   1. 

      DaveD (@daved)
      29th March 2015, 19:14

      @matt90
      Spot on. There were so many small little misjudgments that led to this result on Merc’s part. But I have to admit that I had no idea the Ferrari had so much pace and that it would make that much of a difference. But with the wrong call in Qualy, the wrong call on the safety car and then being stuck with the wrong tyre for the last stint…no way.
      Time for Merc to do that German thing and be planned and precise!
3. 

   lockup (@)
   29th March 2015, 18:45

   Merc had made up their minds the prime was the better race tyre. But it seems to me they were set up for a tyre half way between the two. I’m not sure they still don’t have some of their old tyre use problems lurking around.
   1. 

      periwinkle (@shena)
      30th March 2015, 11:44

      As for why they thought Hard was better race tyre: I think it started on Friday. With Hamilton’s track time shortened significantly they didn’t have enough time to do a high fuel run on Hards, done only briefly (4-5 laps) by Rosberg at the end of the session. They knew Mediums didn’t last long and it’d be a tight 3 stopper, so as a rule of thumb decided to save Hards.
4. 

   pxcmerc (@)
   29th March 2015, 20:01

   Mercedes problems began on Friday when they failed to provide adequate time for Lewis to setup his car.
   1. 

      Patrickl (@patrickl)
      29th March 2015, 21:05

      Exactly. That left them comrpomised for the remainder of the weekend. Yet again.
      1. 

         pxcmerc (@)
         29th March 2015, 23:05

         isn’t it interesting how people are not saying anything about that 500 pound gorilla :) it’s almost insulting to listen to commentators try to walk around that fact as they try to promote Ferrari and the spectacle. The way the ‘formula’ insists on ‘dumbing’ down things to the point where drivers can’t wear different helmets, and the way commentators neglect key pieces of evidence and promote sponsor agendas has me somewhat sick to my stomach.
   2. 

      PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
      30th March 2015, 6:07

      @pcxmerc That should not have meant Mercedes didn’t win. Where was Rosberg…..
      1. 

         BasCB (@bascb)
         30th March 2015, 6:20

         well, leaving him stacked up behind Hamilton for that pitstop dropped him even further down the field @xtwl, so in this case I would say the team messed up there too.
         1. 

            PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
            30th March 2015, 6:33

            @bascb Of course. But by the comment above, Rosberg did have adequate time to prepare himself for the race and he was still never ahead of Hamilton in any way. It’s no hatred towards him just a note.
            1. 

               BasCB (@bascb)
               30th March 2015, 8:30

               Who mentions “hate” @xtwl, just offering facts that explain where Rosberg was (after that he was completely without a chance).

               Reliability issues certainly did not help Mercedes get a good view of the tyre situation by missing feedback from Hamilton. Wrong expectations, partly based on this lack of information from the friday, led to their approach in qualifying. And then to the (too early) stop. Not to mention that the pitstops at Mercedes also weren’t stellar, although a second here or there on its own wouldn’t make a big difference.

               Yes, its nonsense to view reliability issues as the biggest reason, but it was the start/first in a chain of mistakes and wrong desicions that helped Mercedes lose the way this weekend.
            2. 

               PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
               30th March 2015, 8:57

               @bascb I think you misunderstood my comment then.

               Where was Rosberg…..

               Wasn’t as much of a question rather than a remark on him having a smooth weekend all through the FPs. Thus having adequate time to prepare for the race and have the knowledge about tyre life.

               There have been plenty of drivers missing out on a FP and perform perfect in all other sessions. So, yes they lost data but I don’t think it affected their performance as Rosberg himself who didn’t also did not match Vettel.

               But of course you’re right when you say

               Reliability issues certainly did not help Mercedes
            3. 

               BasCB (@bascb)
               30th March 2015, 10:45

               Ah, right. Get it. Yes, they lost some info, but certainly did get the information from Rosberg running @xtwl, although it seems they have gotten used to the the luxury of having both a bit too much :-)
            4. 

               pxcmerc (@)
               31st March 2015, 1:53

               it’s a matter of fact that Lewis manages his tires much better (than Nico) and states publicly that he doesn’t really use his teammate in order to get a good setup. It’s pretty clear Lewis owns the tires on that team, and almost always gets better life out of them over race distance by a good enough margin to win almost every race, on equal terms.

               By missing all of FP1 and 40 minutes of FP2 Lewis was not able to get good enough setup to even get a good ‘balance’ in his car, which he stated after the race. The problem is Merc failed Lewis big time, and the lack of preparation that Mercedes showed before FP1 is suspect at best, suspect,

               The good news is Merc helped TV ratings and boosted interest in their own campaign in doing so. So Mercedes actually won by giving the appearance that Ferrari has caught up. Lewis and Nico were the big losers, Mercedes achieved a net gain.
5. 

   John Mwesigwa (@sigwa)
   29th March 2015, 20:21

   i just honestly think ferrari should enjoy their win for the next ten days, this is going to make merc”s 1,2 ‘s even more predominant this season. Ferrari has had pace but not the kind of pace to worry Mercedes with a tuned up engine. The Mercedes strategist should have been given a real wakeup call..nice win for ferarri tho..
   1. 

      Foosa
      30th March 2015, 5:50

      @sigwa: So soon, we will see Mercedes ‘turn the wick up’ in China…
6. 

   Patrick (@paeschli)
   29th March 2015, 20:21

   What I do not understand is why they chose to pit both cars under the SC.

   Surely Rosberg would have loved trying ‘something else’ to get back at Lewis, no? Especially since he was going to lose some time anyway when Mercedes decided to pit both cars at the same time.
   1. 

      rm
      29th March 2015, 21:09

      That’s one of Mercedes weaknesses, they always put both drivers on the same strategy so nobody can accuse them of favoring one over the other. A smarter team would have split their strategies there, pitting one driver and leaving the other out.

      In practice their forcing both drivers to use the same strategy sometimes ends up giving one an advantage over the other, as it gave Lew an edge over Nico today. So I’d prefer to see them abandon this rule of theirs.
   2. 

      agoodall (@)
      30th March 2015, 2:40

      If you honestly thought the strategy was the right call, why would you give the other driver a different strategy, especially since he’s in the hunt for the championship, too? You could split strategies if you’re unsure, or one driver has a strong preference for a particular strategy. If you thought staying out was definitely wrong, they why would you only allow one of your drivers to make, what you think, is the right call?
   3. 

      Foosa
      30th March 2015, 5:51

      @paeschli: Imagine if Mercedes left Rosberg out during safety car period and he won, then Merc would have to bear the Hamilton whine for the rest of the season…
   4. 

      PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
      30th March 2015, 6:10

      @paeschli Rosberg should start making these decisions to go for alternate strategies and just ask them from the team. Say A is the best simulated but B is close, go for B. He can’t do it on pace so why not gamble on it. Albeit that might mean losing out on some occasions but surely winning on others. I see a season without wins for Rosberg if Lewis his car keeps running.
7. 

   rm
   29th March 2015, 21:04

   Hamilton and Vettel did their final stint on the same rubber with identical fuel loads, so lap times there give the best indication of the relative performance of the two cars. The Merc had about 0.3 seconds a lap on the Ferrari. That’s still a lot, but it’s much less than the gap between Mercedes and the second best car we’ve seen over the last year.
   1. 

      MaroonJack (@maroonjack)
      30th March 2015, 8:22

      The Merc had about 0.3 seconds a lap on the Ferrari.

      True, but Seb was managing his pace while Lewis was pushing to catch the red car. I think Ferrari was simply faster.
8. 

   Patrickl (@patrickl)
   29th March 2015, 21:09

   The question is though, where the medium tyres they used in quali new ones or old ones? Perhaps they opted to use a couple of used medium tyres instead of a set of new hards?

   The commentating was excruciatingly annoying in it’s false assumptions though. Coulthard really needs Brundle there to keep his poor judgments in check. Ben Edwards just seems to be there for the frantic enthusiasm when nothing is really happening.
   1. 

      Foosa
      30th March 2015, 5:52

      @patrickl : How did Nico get another set of options at the end? Did he not use up his tyres in Qualy?
9. 

   Bolide (@mim5)
   29th March 2015, 21:22

   1. SC, and BOTH Mercs pitting & stacking their cars. don’t they have the courage to try something different?
   2. Vettel catching Ros and Rosberg asking “If he passes me does that mean he has won? ” PRICELESS
   3. Ham having a go at his race engineer. He was probably working harder than he had for the last year.
   1. 

      DaveW (@dmw)
      29th March 2015, 23:05

      2. Was in fact hilarious. Rosberg looked foolish. But it was a reflection of how the team were not giving the drivers consistent, credible information.
   2. 

      Foosa
      30th March 2015, 5:54

      @mim5:
      3. Alll the talk of coolness etc goes out of the window when one starts to lose
   3. 

      Skeptic
      30th March 2015, 14:26

      1. Mercedes were sticking to a pre-prepared plan rather than making decisions on the fly. Ferrari showed superior “on the spot” judgement all weekend (using hard tyres in Q1 and putting Vettel at the front of the line for Q2).
      2. Rosberg was rattled by the pace of Vettel. He freaked out.
      3. Hamilton was rattled by the pace of Vettel. He freaked out.
10. 

    Bolide (@mim5)
    29th March 2015, 21:24

    4. Vettel catching Hamilton & Hamilton cowering to the pits
    1. 

       matt90 (@matt90)
       29th March 2015, 23:53

       I think cowering is a little unfair. We’d heard a transmission where Hamilton said his tyres were done before Vettel actually caught him.
       1. 

          BigAlex
          30th March 2015, 8:17

          The cowering Hamilton still on top. check the championship table please.
    2. 

       Edgar
       31st March 2015, 18:12

       Some Vettel fans are hopeless. Really.
11. 

    DaveW (@dmw)
    29th March 2015, 21:35

    With regard to Mercedes’s overconfidence, maybe Ferrari should thank Horner for so aggressively talking down the chances of the peloton. Maybe it went to Wolff’s head.
12. 

    Edgar
    30th March 2015, 4:35

    If Mercedes was better suited for hards, i wonder why didn’t they started on hards.
    Two stints of 19 laps on hards, regardless of Vettel, and a final one with the car low on fuel and the track “rubbered”, for the remaining laps. I doubt Vettel would build a gap as big needing to overtake and then go away.

    We’ll never know if this could work out, but it probably would be better than giving Vettel the control of the race without even putting up a fight.
    1. 

       BasCB (@bascb)
       30th March 2015, 6:22

       You have to start on the tyres used in Q2 if you make it into Q3 though Edgar, so that option was not open for them
       1. 

          Edgar
          30th March 2015, 21:32

          I understand.
          I didn’t see the qualy this weekend and don’t know where they were in terms of pace.
          Was it possible for them to achieve Q3 using hard tyres?

          Cuz doing just 4 laps on mediums and then going for hards to what was essencially a 2 stop race is why they lost. They basically gave Vettel a 9s lead for them to take out using slower tyres for most of the time.
13. 

    Evans (@earmitage)
    30th March 2015, 6:30

    I do not agree that using options in qualifying was a bad decision. In Aus, Ferrari used their options in Q1 and about everyone did the same, I suspect Merc were not convinced that they would be safe if everyone used options in Q1 at Sepang given that everyone seemed to have improved since Aus. I don’t think that decision was as bad as most are making it.
    1. 

       Iosif (@afonic)
       30th March 2015, 8:39

       They thought that Prime tyres were the best choice for the race, that’s why they used options in Q1.
    2. 

       Skeptic
       30th March 2015, 14:29

       It was a bad decision because Malaysia is always rougher on tyres than Australia. All other things being equal, it is always better to have more of the faster tyre in the race. Mercedes have sufficient pace to always make it into Q2 even if everyone else uses softer tyres.
14. 

    Mark
    30th March 2015, 8:50

    The one thing I don’t quite understand is why Lewis thought he would’ve got to the end on the Options.

    At the end of his first Prime stint, he had 32 laps to make it to the end of the race after completing 20 laps on the Primes. Given how the Options on his Merc fell away after just 14 laps on his third stint, I can’t see how he would’ve made the final 18 laps on the Option Tires, even if they were a fresh set that they had saved in Q1.

    The Ferrari deg was so much better than the Mercs that I think it was going to be a 2 v 3 stopper and it would’ve been very, very close had the SC not been deployed for Ericsson, it’s not like Lewis was pulling away from Seb at a huge rate of knots.
    1. 

       Skeptic
       30th March 2015, 14:33

       Lewis’ last stint was on the tyres he used at the start of the race. They’d already down 4-5 laps – thus he actually got 18-19 laps out of the options. The primes suffered because of the aggressive overtaking required after he lost track position.

       A 2 stop strategy for Mercedes that might have worked if the tyres were available:

       18 laps on options.
       22 laps on primes.
       18 laps on options.
15. 

    Madman (@madman)
    30th March 2015, 11:35

    Does any one know why the Virtual Safety Car wasn’t used instead of the safety car? Surely this is the exact situation when the VSC should be deployed as the safety car was unnecessary if they had to slow down for the start/finish straight and first two corners under the VSC rule?
16. 

    ShoponF (@shoponf)
    30th March 2015, 11:47

    Mercs’ race strategy 56 laps 3 stops after having pole position, 4 laps later, new strategy 52 laps 2 stops and give up hard earned P1 … doesn’t make any sense at all!
17. 

    medman (@medman)
    30th March 2015, 17:48

    I didn’t understand why Mercedes went with the softer tire in quali….and I still don’t understand. It didn’t, and doesn’t, make any sense. They certainly didn’t need the pace in the tire to advance, so why use it at the time? I don’t know who made that call, it seems very strange indeed.
18. 

    McL88AsAp (@deongunner)
    31st March 2015, 14:12

    The issue is, Mercedes unable to keep their tyres last long. Look at Ferrari and Williams driver stints, Their Medium stints are 20 laps, Neither Merc drivers reach 15 laps.
    1. 

       McL88AsAp (@deongunner)
       31st March 2015, 14:19

       Not to mention that McLarens, Force Indias, Maldonado, Kvyat, Verstappen and even Merhi did more laps on Mediums than Merc too

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