In the round-up: Jenson Button says he is impressed by Toro Rosso rookie Carlos Sainz Jnr.
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Button impressed by Sainz maturity (F1i)
"Everyone obviously talks about Verstappen and he is very quick, but when I sit down with his team-mate, Carlos, I think that he’s a very intelligent and I feel that he doesn’t just have the speed, he has other qualities as well."
Hamilton: Important to keep Monza on F1 schedule (Crash)
"I can't see it happening to be honest. I think, ultimately, it's all politics and stuff which, I'm sure, will get sorted out."
Haas has 'no regrets' over F1 move (Autosport)
"From everything I've seen, we're going to be fine. We're not going to wind up going to the poor house."
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Comment of the day
Last weekend’s Caption Competition was won by @Sw6569:
The closed cockpit solution developed by the strategy group was rather extreme
Thanks to everybody who joined in – especially Valkrider, Mach1, Selbbin, David Pate, Daniel and ColdFly F1 who all made great suggestions.
From the forum
Happy birthday to Gombosco!
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On this day in F1
Didier Pironi crashed out while leading the Monaco Grand Prix 35 years ago today, handing victory to Carlos Reutemann. It was a day for crashes, as Derek Daly landed on Tyrrell team mate Jean-Pierre Jarier in a memorable first-lap carambolage:
38 comments on “Button praises “very intelligent” rookie Sainz”
18th May 2015, 0:12
Congratulations to the caption winner, excellent !
Bit of an anticlimax newswise after the slapstick committee report.
To see real racing watch yesterdays MotoGP from Le Mans.
18th May 2015, 0:32
The rookies aren’t doing too bad, but who gets promoted to Redbull?
OmarR-Pepper - Vettel 40 victories!!! (@)
18th May 2015, 0:41
@mim5 at the state Red Bull (big) team is, maybe the prize would be to stay at Toro Rosso, and the less efficient goes to Red Bull to rot.
18th May 2015, 1:28
LoL !!! BTW how have you been doing mate, nice to read your jokes !!!!
OmarR-Pepper - Vettel 40 victories!!! (@)
18th May 2015, 1:58
@@tifoso1989 I had been reading everyday, but having the races finishing so predictably gives me no room to make so many comments. It’s like, you know, every race we’re expecting a Mercedes – Ferrari – Williams final order. Let’s hope Ferrari upgrades start working (*fingers crossed*). I hope you are okay as well.
18th May 2015, 1:35
@omarr-pepper Kvyat probably wishing he could have stayed the way things are going at the moment
18th May 2015, 0:41
would you want to be promoted to red bull, at least this season?
18th May 2015, 1:36
@matiascasali not this season but I’d like to be there when they team up with Audi
Eric Morman (@lethalnz)
18th May 2015, 1:37
shows Honer has lost interest,
RBR have gone backwards because of his outbursts, the team is totally demoralized by his constant moaning about Renault.
i hope when Team Hass join next year they blow his socks off.
18th May 2015, 10:46
He needs to sort things out in his private life too.
He doesn’t speak to his parents or the mother of his child.
18th May 2015, 10:59
@lethalnz – They haven’t gone backwards because of Horner… They’re stuck with a useless engine, Newey has taken a step back and their long-term world champion driver has left. They are going through a huge period of transition and are stuck with the slowest engine on the grid.
18th May 2015, 1:54
Let’s not forget that, at the end of 2008, we were questioning if it was a good move for Vettel to go from Toro Rosso to Red Bull. (Vettel and Toro Rosso finished in front of Red Bull that year)
A year can make a huge difference.
18th May 2015, 11:12
@philippe – And people questioned if it was a good idea for Hamilton to move to Mercedes. They’re currently having a go at Alonso for moving to McLaren. As you say, a year can make a huge difference although whilst Red Bull have a Renault v6 engine, I can’t see them being able to compete with Mercedes.
18th May 2015, 3:56
Its maybe because im American but i love the little updates on Haas . Do you feel that if he comes into the sport and within the first say 2 or 3 years he can be a midfield team that this could draw in new independent teams? It will show that if you handle your team the correct way and don’t over spend you can make a name for yourself. I feel with the last set of new teams that came into the sport they mismanaged alot of things on the team and were not willing to put in that extra step. I know it takes alot of money to do these things but i think they could have done a little better then they did. I really hope this works out because he is really doing this the right way. Did any of the other new teams already have a car in the wind tunnel testing it 10 months before they entered the sport? I think not. Anyways i just wanted to put my feelings out there about all this. What do you guys feel about Haas and maybe your expectations on the team?
18th May 2015, 4:48
He sounds like a smart man who knows how to go racing, and how to milk the publicity for all it’s worth, but it sounds to me more than coincidental that his stated plan of informaly partnering with a manufacturer like,for instance, Ferrari meshes so perfectly with Bernies plan to get rid of the smaller independent teams and replace them with client teams, I’ll bet he and Bernie have each others phone numbers on speed-dial.
18th May 2015, 6:59
@hohum, I wouldn’t necessarily say that is the case and think you might be reading more into the deal than is actually there.
As one ongoing example, Force India has a similar arrangement with Mercedes and used to have an even deeper relationship with McLaren when McLaren supplied components to them (Force India and McLaren used to have a joint research team, until McLaren decided to sever its ties with Mercedes whilst Force India chose to continue with them).
18th May 2015, 5:40
Haas seems to be doing everything right to make it work. Getting into F1 is huge, but if anyone can make it, he can. Even on the financial side, they seem to have plenty of money to invest with the tie in to his tool company. At least Ferrari seems to have turned things around with their engine this year. Last year i was worried that would be a weakness for them.
18th May 2015, 8:15
The previous US based team was talking the same talk, but they never walked the walk.
18th May 2015, 9:58
The last 3 new teams joined F1 based on an agreement that there would be a cost cap introduced, the other teams failed to agree on the cost cap which left the new teams unable to compete.
It’s not that they were unwilling to make the next step, they just got screwed over and weren’t able to increase their income to the level needed to challange teams that were spending several times more than them.
18th May 2015, 21:33
Honestly, and without wanting to be rude, I think Haas is still seriously underestimating what it will take. If the new Haas car is within 107% of the leaders at the first race he will have done well. Midfield from the outset is exceedingly unlikely. It has not been done in the past 20 years.
18th May 2015, 4:57
I am glad that someone is giving Carlos Sainz a bit of good press. He has really impressed me so far this season but I fear for his future in the sport, and not because of his skill behind the wheel. This is simply because, no matter how well he does, everyone will assume Verstappen is doing a better job because he is 17, forgetting that Sainz is only 20. Everyone of Verstappen’s mistakes will be forgiven, while Sainz won’t be given the same leeway, which is desperately unfair.
18th May 2015, 5:37
Yep. I somehow feel he is likely to go the way of Alguesari and Nico Hulkenberg.
18th May 2015, 6:32
Honestly, I think it’s all down to his driving. I think he is at a slight disadvantage, as he will have to do slightly more to get the respect of the f1 paddock.
If he finishes the season with lesser points than Max, then it will no doubt affect his f1 career. If he finishes with similar points to Max, it’s still a disadvantage, as a 17 year old has much more potential to improve than a 20 year old. It’s only if he finishes with a decent amount of points in front of Verstappen, that he will get truly noticed.
Honestly, I think Verstappen is a whole lot more exciting to watch on raceday, and he definitely has a lot of raw talent, but Carlos isn’t a slouch either, and on pure speed they are very much on equal terms right now.
18th May 2015, 8:24
As I said below, that is my point @todfod. Sainz is at a disadvantage simply because he (together with his father and Dr. Marko) decided to fast track his rise to F1. Setting Sainz a higher bar for success simply because he happens to be partnered with a child with overzealous backers is not right.
18th May 2015, 9:23
No, that is not true. Sainz should outperform Verstappen since he has a lot more experience. That is not a disadvantage, that’s just logic. Verstappen is who he is: a 17-year-old that has done one quarter of the races Sainz has. That should actually be an advantageous position for Sainz.
18th May 2015, 10:10
That’s true, in theory. As Alonso found when he teamed up with a rookie, it doesn’t always work out that way.
18th May 2015, 7:29
I don’t see that happening – in fact, I see Verstappen being questioned more often than Sainz.
That aside, I don’t think it is “desperately unfair” to not measure them both by the same stick. On the contrary, I’d find it unfair for Verstappen to do so. For one, the difference in age, at that age, is huge. And the difference in experience is huge as well. Verstappen has had one season of single seaters before F1, for a total of 47 races. Sainz has had 5 seasons, for a whopping total of 175 races. On top of that Sainz had ample experience in cars with about double the amount of HP Verstappen has. Another thing is he’s had experience with pit stops.
For all of the above reasons I fully expected Sainz to have a clear upper hand in their first season.
18th May 2015, 8:22
But that is exactly my point exactly, in one way they are being judged on the same basis (i.e. points) but on the other they aren’t (because Sainz is slightly older). That is precisely what I feared.
Verstappen’s age gives him a saftey net that no other driver has ever had to my knowledge (including the likes of Alonso and Alguersuari, who entered F1 as teenagers too). His lack of experience is down to his own making. Had he not taken the overzealous advice of his father and Dr. Marko and made the jump so quickly he would have arrived as well equipped as Sainz. So I fail to see why it is fair to allow him a free pass just because Sainz has taken a more traditional path and Verstappen has chosen not to.
18th May 2015, 8:28
And another thing, everyone said “if you are fast enough, you are old enough” pre-season. So why should he still get leeway due to his age when no one else does when we all pretend that age doesn’t matter?
18th May 2015, 9:20
That adage is true, but it does not imply everyone starts on the same foot nor that everyone has the same potential for growth. Verstappen is proving to us that he was effectively old enough to enter F1 because he’s done well, but he is vastly less experienced in single seaters. Sure it’s of his own making, but does that really matter when assessing the potential someone has?
This is just how it works. He is younger, he’s driven a quarter of the races Sainz has, and therefore when performing equally that counts more for Verstappen than it does for Sainz.
Let me put it another way: one year ago Ocon was beating Verstappen in F3. Yet Mercedes and Red Bull were not going after him, but after Verstappen. Why? Same reason: Verstappen had so much less experience and was younger, making both RBR and Mercedes believe he had more potential than Ocon.
18th May 2015, 9:47
Heidfeld versus Räikkönen in 2001 was pretty similar. Heidfeld was tipped to go to McLaren should any of their drivers (Hakkinen) quit. However, the less experienced Räikkönen took his place, as despite his severe disadvantage in terms of experience, the performance deficit was so small that McLaren picked him over Heidfeld. So yes, Sainz is expected to perform slightly better than Verstappen, even though he is only 20.
18th May 2015, 10:40
I dunno @geemac. Looking at it from the other end it’s a great opportunity for Sainz, to beat the teen sensation. I often think the worst thing is for two teammates to be unknown, and then unless one of them blows the other away they both get discarded as average.
I think Sainz will be okay. His driving looks good and he’s really likeable in front of the camera. It’s just a bit of a pity his dad had to have his little ego trip and saddle him with the ‘Junior’ tag; that always irritates me.
18th May 2015, 19:14
It turns out they were half a sec slower than they should have been and we didn’t know that because we didn’t have anyone else to make comparisons =P
18th May 2015, 10:34
In the haas article it mentions an FIA list of what parts they are allowed to buy in. I would be very interested to see this list, or know what it says. We don’t normally hear much about the components teams buy in.
ColdFly F1 (@)
18th May 2015, 12:57
@strontium, I think it is the other way around. The FIA issued in the technical regulations (appendix 6) a list of ‘listed parts’.
Any constructor has to procure their own exclusive parts for the items listed there. All the rest can be bought and shared I believe.
The ‘listed parts’ are:
18th May 2015, 16:55
@coldfly Ah right, thank you. That is a lot less part than I had expected to be honest.
18th May 2015, 10:36
I agree with both Button and Hamilton, Sainz has impressed me and Monza should not be dropped!
20th May 2015, 20:39
Way to go, beneboy. USF1-and the other three teams-got screwed over by the last “cost cap” fiasco. It was not their fault in any way they could not proceed. When I see people trash them, I see fans that were not paying attention. Best of luck to the Haas F1 effort. Here’s to great Monaco and Indy races this year.
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