Verstappen penalised for Grosjean crash

2015 Monaco Grand Prix

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Max Verstappen has been given a grid penalty and penalty points on his licences for his collision with Romain Grosjean.

Verstappen will lose five place on the grid at the next round in Canada and has been given two penalty points.

The Toro Rosso driver blamed Grosjean for the collision, saying his rival braked early for the corner. However the stewards ruled that “car 33 [Verstappen] caused the collision with car 8 [Grosjean] in turn one.”

This article will be updated.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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113 comments on “Verstappen penalised for Grosjean crash”

  1. Sorry if I’m wrong, but did I hear that Jos Verstappen was one of the stewards this weekend?

    1. No its Tom Kristensen

      1. Ah thanks. Must have mis-heard.

    2. maarten.f1 (@)
      24th May 2015, 17:12

      @eurobrun @malik I have read the same thing. Someone here on f1fanatic (I think it was the article about Sainz’ penalty) mentioned that Jos Verstappen was the driver steward this weekend. It would probably pose a (potential) conflict of interest if he would ever be a steward.

      1. It might be better to ask @Keith Colloantine

        1. maarten.f1 (@)
          24th May 2015, 17:26

          @malik This was the comment that someone posted.

      2. @eurobrun @maarten-f1 I am pretty sure that comment was just a joke making fun of the fact that Sainz was forced to start from the pit lane.

  2. Hopefully he can learn from that
    His error cost Hamilton race win

    1. @malik LOL his error cost Grosjean his race. Hamilton’s race win was spoiled by him and his team. No one outside those two were responsable for it.

      1. Without that stupid move Lewis would have finished with 15 seconds advantage with Rosberg second and Merc did not have to bother making any calls
        By the way I am not Lewis fan but I feel sorry for him
        17 year old guy should not be driving in F1.

        1. @malik mate, had Max crashed into lewis, yeah, totally his fault. But Hamilton didn’t need to pit. Crash or not, had Lewis not pitted, he’d have won.

          So Max had no imput AT ALL on the result of the race. He just opened the window for Merc to make a ridiculous mistake.

          1. A simple question for you
            Without that crash who would have won the race?

          2. @malik It depends if Hamilton’s strategists had brought Hamilton in anyway..

          3. @malik Hamilton, but with the crash, he should’ve won aswell. So crash or not, it was Hamilton’s to lose. Something OUTSIDE the crash happened (Merc pitting him) and that’s why he lost the race, not the crash.

            You’re the only one picking Max for something he hardly did. And even if the events after his crash developed into Rosberg lucking into a win over Hamilton, Max is not to blame for it.

            By your logic, Schumacher’s accident with Liuzzi in 2010 Abu Dhabi won the championship for Vettel. But that was just a situation that triggered a bunch of other situations that lead to Alonso pitting to cover Webber and staying behind Petrov, Kubica, Rosberg and so on who had pitted under the SC deployed after Schumi’s accident.

            You’re WAY, WAY off.

        2. maarten.f1 (@)
          24th May 2015, 17:16

          @malik By that same logic, if Torro Rosso hadn’t messed up on his first stop, he wouldn’t have been in this situation. Except “ifs” and “buts” don’t count.

          Mercedes messed up and made a bad call. It doesn’t matter how that situation came to be, it happened and they made a bad call.

          1. Lewis Hamilton admits both he and Mercedes made the call to pit
            “It was a collective decision between us all,” says Mercedes driver; World champion thought rivals had pitted
            The thing is that Max accident cost Hamilton win

          2. @malik Seriously, where do you see the proof that the accident FORCED Meredes to call Lewis for fresh rubber? Where?? W…h…e…..r…..e?

          3. @Balazsryche:
            Simple question for you if you want to answer:
            Without Max accident, who would have won the race?

          4. @malik so by your own admission, Lewis and the Mercedes team bear full responsibility for that decision. The fact that they would not have needed to make that call without the crash, doesn’t mean that it wasn’t a spectacularly bad call.

            I honestly cannot understand it. It’s Monaco. You can’t overtake. Even if Vettel or Rodney had had fresh tires, they certainly could not have passed Hamilton. He should always, in all cases, have stayed out.

          5. @malik her we go… by that logic, it could have been chuck norris.

          6. @malik Everyone knows that there is an 80% chance of a safety car at Monaco in any given F1 race. You just don’t know WHEN it’s going to happen, so a big part of winning at Monaco is to make the right decisions when the unexpected occurs. It seems that you want to blame VES for creating a situation that forced Mercedes to make a decision in the heat of the moment, a decision that did not properly consider the risks in their chosen tactics and thus turned out to be a poor one. Give me a break. VES is a racer, and he was racing to take a position rather than just going around Monaco in single file. A race is not handed to you just because you seem to be leading close to the end. Races are won and lost at the last corner. That’s the beauty of life and racing. It ain’t over till the fat lady sings. It seems like your philosophy of life might not quite take into account the way the universe actually works with regard to how events occur in a complex world.

          7. @Slowhands:
            Why did Alonso blame Grosjean in Spa 2012?
            Why did Webber blame Vettel in Suzuka 2007?
            Mistakes happen of course but my point is that Max could be a great racer but not at this age. In some countries he can’t even hire a car because of his age.

          8. @malik When I was racing there were 15 year old kids who did not even have a drivers license who in their first year out of karts were at the head of the field in speed, skills, tactics, and even maturity. It taught me to judge the individual, not the age.

            Webber and Alonso blamed the drivers who actually hit THEM. Those were driver errors that damaged THEIR cars, not an accident somewhere else that led them to make a strategic error. There is a difference, and that difference is crucial. If Grosjean wants to blame VES, that’s his prerogative. Yes, the incident changed the complexion of the race. But that’s the essence of racing, that’s why we watch– the unexpected and how people react, who gets it right, who gets it wrong. Lewis lost because Merc made the wrong decision in the situation created by the GRO-VES incident, not due to the incident itself. Rosberg and Vettel made the right decision by knowing track position was key and staying put. What would have happened if they had not been able to get the car cleared away safely enough and the race had ended behind the safety car? The point is that you never know what’s going to happen at Monaco, everyone keeps saying that before the race, and so you must make the right decisions in the heat of the moment, and take the blame if you do not. You can’t blame the incident if it does not involve you. That’s a philosophy of life I don’t understand.

            p.s. it was Fuji, not Suzuka

    2. I’m a Hamilton fan, and annoyed as anyone else, but give Verstappen a break.

      For one, it’s his first season and he has to be expected to make rookie errors, regardless of his age.

      Secondly, he didn’t cost Hamilton a win, Mercedes did. Safety Car’s happen, teams should be prepared. They messed up big time.

      On a side note, I’m not sure this is the right call. I initially called it as Max’s mistake, but seeing replays Grosjean did appear to brake quite early.

      Having said that though, I’m not sure that even if Max had avoided Grosjean and hit the brakes, he’d have actually stopped in time for the corner… He was quite late.

      1. @bradley13 I don’t think the stewards should give him a break punishment-wise.

        The public certainly should perception-wise though.

      2. maarten.f1 (@)
        24th May 2015, 17:31

        @bradley13 Verstappen did comment he was breaking at exactly the same point as the lap before (of course the stewards have access to the telemetry so they’ll be able to tell whether that’s true or not), and there was so little space between the two that there was little room for error. Personally I see it as a racing incident, it happens to the most experienced drivers (Button recently collected some penalty points because he misjudged it).

        1. @maarten-f1 I agree with you. Racing incident. I’m disappointed in this decision, because you have to allow racing. It’s a sprint race, for goodness sakes. I also don’t think Alonso should have been penalized for being assertive in a place where you have to take your opportunities when they arise. In the case of Grosjean and Verstappen, I hope the stewards actually looked at the telemetry rather than just the video.

        2. +1 racing incident…. what else is VER supposed to do with just a few laps left ? Stay well behind GRO until the end of the race leaving enough distance JUST IN CASE GRO brakes early ???

          That is not racing…. if F1 comes to that I’m out of here…

          Now I hear the stewards have punished VER it is just damn wrong.

      3. Max said he braked at that same spot the lap before. He was not making a move on Grosjean, just following closely and Grosjean braked early and caught him out. Brundle at the time said Grosjean was braking early. Also watching the onboard from Verstappen, Grosjean was slightly wandering left to right, back to left to take the corner. I too think the stewards got it wrong and it should be called a racing incident. Good to see Grosjean get taken out though. He deserves 20 more of those for costing Alonso the title in 2012.

        1. +1 re comments defended VER… comments re GRO are out of order

    3. ColdFly F1 (@)
      24th May 2015, 17:01

      You probably didn’t follow the race or read the other articles, @malik.
      But it was a poor call by Mercedes that caused him to lose it!

      1. I did follow the race and Brundle said that something was going to happen and it was the onboard camera with Verstappen when the accident happened

        1. Trenthamfolk (@)
          24th May 2015, 17:28

          They called it… and it happened… a side effect of putting children in cars.

        2. Michael Brown
          24th May 2015, 22:06

          Well, when a car follows another car closely, something usually does happen.
          An attempted overtake.

    4. Explain how a Safety Car period during which fuel is saved and tyres are preserved would force Mercedes to pit a driver to change tyres.

    5. Who to blame for p3 Hamilton? 100% Mercedes and certainly not Max Verstappen (World Champion 2018).

    6. Michael Brown
      24th May 2015, 18:15

      I didn’t know that Verstappen had crashed into Hamilton.

    7. Learn what ? Not to try to overtake people ?

    8. Reading the comments here with have yet another mindless Hamilton follower… Oh dear.
      I’ve watched the replay of the accident several times, Grojean did slightly swerve right then left in the while braking.
      Grojean also broke alot earlier than the normal which when you have this useless thing called DRS giving you 15mph more speed you also have less reaction time and control of you car.
      It’s verstappen’s fault the crash as you can’t over-rule the judges. I can’t change the decision but the crash was not the cause to Hamilton’s childish, stupid actions for losing one GP. It’s the teams fault but he just has to deal with that and stop trying to mimic the world of senna. It’s pathetic if you ask me.

      1. I don’t know if his a Hamilton follower. He seems to be using Hamilton for his “no 17 year olds in F1” campaign.
        As a Hamilton fan am annoyed by this guy at max level.

  3. His error did not cost Hamilton race win. Mercedes decision did. Huge difference.

    1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      24th May 2015, 19:02

      Chain of events – chain of events. If Hamilton was reckless, he and Vetter may not have been alive today… I have no idea how Hamilton cooled himself during the race – when your adrenaline is shooting through your heart and your anger levels rise it’s actually impossible to do that.

  4. Pff… why every crash needs a penalty afterwards? can’t it just be a racing incident?

    Not taking about this particular case, which was a bit more serious (and unfair on Max, IMO). But Ricciardo and Kimi was investigated. Alonso and Hulk was investigated too. Can’t they just race? Alonso vs Hulk was just a racing incident…

    Eeeeeeeeeeverything that happens on track is investigated these days, and a fair share of those investigations ends in a penalty for one or another…

    1. I guess him beeing a rookie and going for moves all the time was a factor in deciding to give him a “lesson” with the penalty. Lets hope it doesn’t stop him from going for it in the following races @fer-no65

      1. The stewards:

        An exciting driver? Let’s give him a lesson!

    2. OmarR-Pepper - Vettel 40 victories!!! (@)
      24th May 2015, 19:03

      @fer-no65 sorry to disagree but Alonso vs Hulk was not “just” a racing incident. I can agree with you that Ricciardo on Kimi can be passed, but Alonso’s move resulted on a frontal crash with debris included (it was quite a miracle it didn’t produce a SC).

      1. @omarr-pepper just because a move ends in carbon fibre debris doesn’t mean a penalty is required. I’m with @fer-no65, too many penalties. Let the guys race and take some chances. Everything does not need to be DRS passes.

      2. @omarr-pepper incidents shouldn’t be measured by consquences. That’s my point. It was slight contact, which resulted bad for Hulk, but what can you do?

        Hulk suffered such penalty himself, after juuust touching Hamilton at turn 1 in Brazil 2012. Which resulted in Hamilton’s DNF.

        They investigate everything these days.

    3. +1 so many jump to impose a penalty – do they not want people to race any more ?

  5. I don’t see how you can penalize him for Grosjean braking early! Verstappen is a better racer than Grosjean can even dream of being. He should have gotten out of the way of future Senna.

    1. I agree that Grosjean braked very early and took Verstappen off guard. Too harsh a penalty

    2. Verstappen wouldn’t made it through anyway even if he’d passed Grosjean, he was way too fast to complete that corner. Totally his fault.

      1. Yes, it’s totally Verstappen’s fault he couldn’t slow down because the front of his car was destroyed by someone braking way before the normal braking point.

      2. When he saw Grosjean braking earlier, the first thing Verstappen did was steering away to try to avoid him, not braking. This gives a false impression of speed. If Grosjean had braked at the same point as the lap before, both drivers would have made the corner without problem.

    3. I’d imagine the stewards checked the telemetry of the cars after hearing Max’s excuse. Perhaps Grojean didn’t brake early or move unnecessarily and it was simply an error by a young driver.

    4. How much do you want to leave in case someone’s ‘saving’ anything and thus breaking earlier.

      Today Max reminded me of Jos. Jos said the same when he crashed into Montoya.

    5. It’s not RG’s fault that VER slammed into him because he supposedly braked earlier than previous laps.

      VER needs to learn to be in control at all times and not “assume” how others will react in certain circumstances. The penalty is justified IMO. I just hope he learns from it

      1. As DC always says, “You have to trust the other drivers.”

    6. ‘Future Senna’, hahaha, do you realise how many people Senna rammed off the track?
      Prost’s the famous one, but Brundle (at least twice), Mansell, Berger…and many more.
      Take the rose-tinted Senna glasses off (are they made by Thom Browne and set you back $875?)

  6. And a thank you from Rosberg ;)

  7. Verstappen did not ruin Hamilton’s race, Verstappen ruined Verstappen’s race though I would argue that this was just a typical racing incident. Hamilton’s team ruined his race, no one else.

  8. Shambolic decision! Grosjean opted to defend very late and put Max’s life in danger.

    1. Very strange decision. VES was not intending to pass and it is clear that GROS was braking to early and so suddenly. VES tried to avoid collision. This is what happend and what is also true is that FIA just wants to make a statement here very sad to see this happen in the racing world.

      1. V sad to see the stewards punish someone for racing.

    2. Grosjean went defensive early and drove in a straight line. So I can see why you think he was driving dangerously.

      1. I like GRO as much as the next guy, but in this case he hit the brakes much too early can caught out Max. Just look at the speed differential! If we could see lap traces it could be proven, but watching the replay this is what I see. Brake checks are illegal for good reason- I put this on GRO, not Max.

        1. I’m unwilling to pin blame until I know why he braked early. However, I will call out people who post stuff that is clearly and obviously wrong ;)

  9. He’s too young and could have killed himself and a number of others, ok he’s fast but lacks the maturity needed.

    1. Today’s crash has nothing to do with maturity. It’s about anticipating someone else’s barking point.

  10. That gravel trap in China 07 was to blame and thats why it has been removed from F1. I hope wherever that gravel trap is now it has learnt it’s lesson. Whilst we are at it same for the Massa 08 Singapore fuel rig as that cost him a title. It may get to return to F1 in 2017 but I hope it too has learnt it’s lesson.

    Seriously Hamilton was very controlled afterwards and he must feel he has the clear edge for the title. Last year taught him know matter what misfortune comes your way over 19 races if you are faster you will win the title.

  11. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
    24th May 2015, 19:00

    They should take away his license – very reckless of the stewards. He’s obviously NOT ready for F1. Ridiculous crash endangering lives, race ramifications and championship. Off to GP2 if they accept him, I think Nascar is a better choice.

    1. I have no problem with Verstappen’s assertiveness behind the wheel. He can brake later and with more feel than anyone I’ve ever seen at his age. Plus he actually drives like he is RACING, not managing for a position. He had been sizing up a move for a couple of laps. The problem was that he doesn’t realize how much later he is able to brake than a lot of others, especially on good tires. He needed to pop out a little sooner and leave a little more room. He’ll learn that. Otherwise a breath of fresh air in a sport where people seem to have forgotten how to take chances and make things happen. With Lewis now leading from the front, we needed someone new to spice up the action in the midfield.

      1. I don’t want to see Verstappen in a top team.

        Seeing him fighting in the midfield is so much more entertaining!

    2. Yes, let’s take away his license for being caught out by someone braking unexpectedly early.

    3. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      25th May 2015, 16:01

      I saw that coming from a mile away – he was just too aggressive and he did not have any respect for the track which is a sign of youthful exuberance.

      Because he made a few passes with Vettel, he thought he could get P1 in the end which is exactly how an immature driver would feel. Any mature driver would have cut his losses and taken those valuable points at Monaco. Once he reached Grosjean and he no longer had that advantage, he had to set up the pass assuming the Toro Rosso had the power to deliver it against the Lotus.

      Didn’t he also make another a brilliant pass before at high speed? I think he had done enough for the day and if he could have passed Grosjean that would have been the icing on the cake. It was obvious Grosjean was not going to give up the position without a fight and Max should waited for him to make a mistake or held position just like all the other champions do.

      He would have come out with many votes for DOTW if he had not crashed. His next mistake will see him out of F1 and usually that’s for good. He needs to understand that he’s on probation at F1 due to his age. The same rules that apply to other drivers do NOT apply to him simply because he’s not an adult.

      If he does not understand that, then he should not be in F1 to begin with. Has he not read all the articles about him???

      1. Why So negative.
        Just like the drivers, the negative reactions, I think they are affraid to loose from a 17y old “boy”
        I think its a race incident.
        Maybe we should not forget that every driver had their accidents.
        At least Max was racing. All the others where driving (just holding thier position)
        I watch F1 for racing; overtakes!
        Lets be honest, how mutch fun was it years ago.
        Today we see maybe 10 overtakes in one race, in the old days there where race fights everywhere.

  12. Peppermint-Lemon (@)
    24th May 2015, 21:02

    Max will be soon regarded as the best of his generation. Better than the lot of them, including having greater talent than Hamilton. Even the best make mistakes. He will learn from this.

    1. Max Verstappen can be driving F1-cars for about 20 years, so he could easily beat 3 generations at least.
      BTW: Grosjean braked too early and changed his line more than once. The stewards haven’t checked the telementry, which is very bad in this case, because Jos Verstappen has seen on Torro Rosso’s telementry that Max actually braked earlier than a lap before this impact occured. I think it was a racing accident and it’s very unfair and bad for F1 to blame someone, espacially Max. He did nothing wrong here.

  13. Next GP hopefully more luck and points for Max. I can’t understand why so many people above are giving him negative comments. I think it is Grosjean’s mistake braking earlier. Verstappen didn’t make mistakes this season so why complain about his age? If people with F1 experience compare him with Senna, Mozart etc….who are you to say that he is too young? Let’s be a little bit more positive and give him the credits he deserves.

  14. sorry to bring it up again but again i point at the crash that grosjean had in 2013, when he crshed into the back of ricciardo just after the tunnel. ricciardo was braking quite early, grosjean misjudged it and reacted too late, crashed into his rear and both of them retired.

    let me just make it clear, the reason i’m pointing at this accident is that everyone said it was grosjeans fault. in any way these accidents happen, the car behind is always the one to blame. and of course because it was early 2013 and grosjeans finest drives were still to come at that point and he had a reputation of being crash-prone after his 2012 season, people were calling for a race ban, disqualification, etc.
    but because verstappen is everybody’s favourite now (i’m including myself) people say it was grosjeans fault.

    Verstappen is a better racer than Grosjean can even dream of being – @irejag

    aside from the fact that this was obviously written by a biased fan, it’s also untrue. verstappen is not a better racer than grosjean yet. He may get there at some point, but today proved he’s still got a few things to learn.

    just one more thing, grosjean got a 10-place grid penalty for his incident, verstappen only 5 places. this is because grosjean is grosjean and verstappen is not grosjean.

    1. @rigi

      I think he already is a better racing driver than Grosjean. One mistake does not not take away the rest of his achievements. Button crashed into Maldonado in a rather silly manner in China. Would you say Button still needs to learn how to race? Surely not.
      Up until that mistake Verstappen has been quite mature in his wheel to wheel and overtaking action. Sure, in China he kinda gave the other drivers no choice but to let him passed but he didn’t force his way through like Ricciardo did that race or with Raikkonen yesterday.
      Yes he touched Maldonado and lost a front wing end plate but he also overtook Maldonado in a very professional manner.
      And Verstappen tailing Vettel to pass Bottas and Sainz was pretty clever as well. I can’t remember this being done before. Pretty crafty, especially for a 17 year old who can and probably will still improve.

      If he starts making more mistakes like this one than people can call immaturity, for now it’s just an incident.

      1. don’t get me wrong, i like verstappen and i think he’s going to be a world champion one day. but after just six races it’s a bit exaggurating to call him a better racing driver than a driver with a lot of experience and success. also i may point at the second half of the season 2013, where grosjean drove really well and came close to winning races.

        like i said, everyone blames grosjean because they either dislike him or they support verstappen. from a neutral point of view, it was verstappens fault and therefore he deserves a penalty.

        1. It’s Verstappen’s fault Grosjean braked early?

  15. Ofcource max need to learn!! But people, do we not like racing. What is racing without overtaking?? Did you not see how smart he was, when he lifted with Vettel.

    Yes he is young, yes he must learn, yes he will make more mistakes. They all did. He will by a future champion.

  16. Finally I did see Some racing! And it was all VES where the racing. The moves tailing Räikkönen and passing two in one race. Great, loved it. The crash, we can’t judge if he would make the turn. I think he could because he did many laps before. Stupid to give a penalty for racing.

  17. Absolute madness from Verstappen. I proclaimed aloud that ‘it’s going to end in tears’ the lap beforehand (and I’m sure many veteran spectators did, too), because it was clear that the Dutchman was going to attempt some ‘Dan Dare’ move and misjudge it (he had previously run into Maldonado and lost his end fence). The collision with Grosjean was horrific, and I’m extremely glad the Toro Rosso didn’t launch over the barriers and into the marshalls’ post.

    Despite all the fireworks from Vertsappen’s side of the garage, it’s Sainz who once again comes away with the result. Not only is the Spaniard consistent, he’s not lacking for speed.

    1. Absolute madness from Verstappen.

      No it wasn’t.

      The collision with Grosjean was horrific

      No, it wasn’t. The crash with Grosjean, Hamilton and Alonso in Spa 2012 was horrific, Bianchi’s crash last year was horrific. This was a crash we’ve seen plenty times before and will see numerous times again.

      Once again

      Let’s recap. Verstappen was keeping up with Sainz on slower tyres and on his way to score more points in Australia even despite Sainz’ pitstop woes. Verstappen outraced Sainz in Malaysia. Verstappen shined in China where Sainz was dreadful. Bahrein was one problem after the other for both. In Spain Verstappen was, again, faster until the team decided to have him do two stints on the slower tyre whereas Sainz was allowed to do a final stint on the faster options. And here in Monaco Verstappen was pretty much the star of the race whereas Sainz couldn’t (or wouldn’t) even get passed Ericsson lapping in the 1:24’s….

      As gutted as I am that Verstappen made that mistake I’m also glad he didn’t do a Sainz and just sit behind other drivers the entire race. At least Verstappen has that racing instinct that I love to see. Similar to Hamilton when he came into F1 in 2007. Because if not for these “racing” drivers, what would F1 be.

      1. Wasn’t horrific? It was an extremely violent crash that Verstappen, in Massa’s words, ‘could’ve been very hurt after what happened’. I haven’t seen many cars spear the barriers at Sainte Devote with such speed. It bore comparisons with Grosjean’s crash at Spa, but also Kovalainen’s at Catalunya in 2011.

        I appreciate the Verstappen propaganda, but I’ll wait to praise him until he can demonstrate consistency and the ability to see out a race weekend. As the old adage goes (to paraphrase Andretti), ‘you can’t teach speed, but you can teach racecraft’. I look forward to seeing what Verstappen learns during the rest of the season. Racing is cruel, and although the season is young, history won’t remember long-winded explanations as to why Verstappen, so far, has one point-scoring finish to Sainz’s 4 [I hope the Dutchman is afforded the opportunity to redress the balance, as I’m not fundamentally opposed to him!].

        Button is impressed by Sainz’s mentality–and I am, too. Unlike Verstappen, he didn’t throw his car into Ericsson’s gearbox and cost his team valuable manufacturer points. In Verstappen’s case, he attempted a move that was never, ever on.

        Honestly, F1’s not much cop at the moment, is it? Most seasoned veterans say these cars are comparatively easy to drive, modern simulators are so advanced that a rookie’s lack of track experience isn’t all that it used to be, and the drivers looked like they were performing reconnaissance laps for most of the race. A rookie being OK straight out of the box doesn’t count for nearly as much these days. Having the recklessness to throw your car into a ‘passing manoeuvre’ a la Verstappen doesn’t count as ‘talent’ in my book.

        Thanks for the response! Nice to have a good debate.

        1. *Catalunya 2008

        2. You do know two of Verstappen’s retirements were down to reliability, yes?

    2. Jamie,

      Is your response not a little bit weird? Who is responsible when a car can get into a marshall post?
      Don’t blame drivers, but the organization itself.

      And madness? Just a little bit different move and he would have passed Grosjean and everyone would be enthousiastic.

      A fault of a rookie, yes, I think so, but that is what rookies do. A great difference in speed, tyres, and Grossjean not clearly hold line.

      It was not clever what VES did, wrong moment, but a decision in a split second?

      My opinion is stop racing at Monaco when you can’t race at Monaco. Especially not, when the Marshalls are not protected in a way you would like to see them protected.

  18. I found the footage quite spectacular in the sense that we were watching the crash live from a front-facing on-board camera, which is very rare. You could see for a split second that GRO braked earlier than VES and that they were going to have contact but there was nothing VES could do anymore. Probably VES had the same feeling…

  19. Jacob (@dutchdriver)
    25th May 2015, 10:04

    With the help of VES this sad parade of expensive vehicles became somewhat bearable. Only if racers like him juice-up this controlled and over-regulated circus people will keep watching. 5-position grid penalty is highly demotivating but on top of that a 2-points penalty on his license is absolute ridiculous. If “maturing” equals “conditioning” this is how they transform exciting young drivers into “calculating administrators”.

    VES is the future but since his first race all his attempts to score points have been blocked by team errors and technical failure. Although I do not believe in conspiracy theories I cannot avoid thinking that STR AND RedBull are a bit overwhelmed by the talent of VES. Their original plan of Sainz being the no. 1 driver and VES the young learner following the more experienced SAI. Than next year SAI replaces Kvyat. SAI is commercially favorable because he represents a much bigger following in a larger country with more RB market. So SAI needs to be higher ranked than VES. It was Tost who desperately wanted VES not the bosses of RB including Horner. When VES started to be faster than RB’s drivers the plan sterted to fail.
    Some examples:
    1) Suspicious engine failures while in scoring position (after Sainz had no scoring position)
    2) Slower pit times or wrong pitting strategies contrary to SAI
    3) Wrong time sent-outs during qualifying.
    4) No action taken by RB against SAI when he wrongly overtook Kvyat in Spain…why?
    5) Monaco Q-3 sent out on tires too cold although VES specifically indicated he needed hotter tires.
    6) Ridiculous slow pit-stops just enough for SAI to be ahead again. (2x)
    7) Than at the end of the race basically force this young driver to take some serious risks to make up for what was taken from him. The crash came in fine for RB and the plan as both RB’s were safe and SAI scored another point over VES. STR is not protesting against VES’ grid penalty because it helps SAI to start in front of VES in Canada.

    OK that is just my theory and the future will tell whether I am right or not. I will follow closely.

    1. Why on earth there is such crazy fandom and paranoia surrounding Verstappen? I’ve already read that other lesser drivers should always yield for him, because he’s new Senna, which is why FIA and their stewards unfairly penalised him for incident with Grosjean and that apparently Red Bull is sabotaging his efforts.

      Which of course makes no sense whatsoever, because it was Red Bull who wanted Verstappen badly in F1, it was them who put him in Red Bull Junior Team only to announce his arrival to F1 few days later and it was Red Bull who actually wanted Vergne to partner Verstappen due to experience and Renault pushing for French driver. As Helmut Marko said: “I fought hard for Sainz. He did not have a lot of friends or supporters, but I’m used to that.” But apparently he’s wrong, it was Red Bull’s original plan to Sainz being number 1 driver, eventhough it was looking likely he would share the same fate as Antonio Felix da Costa.

      Why? Just why? It’s really on another level even compared to McLaren, Whitmarsh and Button seemingly sabotaging Hamilton’s efforts during his 2010-12 stint.

      1. It’s the same ‘logic’ that led to the incessant accusations of favouritism at Mercedes last year

  20. I think there was a very clear line with regards to the penalties. If the other driver was forced off track (Alonso/Hulkenberg and Verstappen/Grosjean), a penalty was applied. If the other driver kept it between the white lines (Ricciardo/Raikkonen) it was a racing incident. I can see the logic in that. Not too long ago Ricciardo vs. Raikkonen would have been penalised (as would Sainz vs Kvyat in Spain), so the stewards are noticably more lenient these days.

    As for Verstappen vs Grosjean, it’s very clear who the culprit was. It was a fight and it was Verstappens responsibility not to run into the car ahead. Grosjean was free to choose his lines. Did he brake early? We don’t know. Maybe Verstappen was travelling a few kph’s faster due to DRS or an good exit from Anthony Hoghes corner. In the end Verstappen had a big shunt and let’s just be glad he’s okay.

    By the way, when father Jos was racing, a large portion of his very vocal following in the Netherlands seemed to think the whole world was against him. It’s funny to see the conspiracy theories resurface after only 1 incident.

  21. I watched the Verstappen accident again and it actually looks like Grosjean got his wheels on the yellow pit exit line, which caused the car to slide a little when he braked. The previous lap, all of his wheels were on tarmac. I think that might have caught out Verstappen.

  22. Michael Schumacher has been given a 10-place grid penalty for the Japanese Grand Prix 2012 after crashing into the back of Jean-Eric Vergne in Singapore. VS needs a ten place penalty at Canada so he can learn the hard way !

    1. So why did they give him only 5 places? Right, because the was not entirely to blame.

  23. Reading all your comments it struck me that the most moderated ones are those which opt for a ‘race incident’. In the Grosjean>Verstappen case there is, in my opinion, no one to blame. Both drivers were in a race following pitt-wall orders. Grosjeans orders very specific: ‘Keep Verstappen behind! You are racing Verstappen’. He was closing the inside line and early on the brakes. Verstappen was right behind him, keeping his line and did not make a move at all. If Verstappen wanted to avoid ‘at all costs’ a collision he would have kept a firm distance and not be racing at all.

  24. Reading unkind remarks about Max Verstappen annoys me. It seems to me that he is blamed for his age and that he is not mature enough. As if older F1 drivers never collide, never end up in the wall and are fully mature. Well that is not the case.
    Let us talk about an experiment. The best (fastest) drivers in the best (fastest) cars at the back of the grid. Just turn the grid around after qualification. If those drivers at the back are so good and so mature and experienced, let them race there way forward and no shouting for blue flags.
    Every driver in front follows orders to NOT let them pass on a narrow track like, lets say, Monaco.
    See what happens. I’m certain that it will give the F1 races the excitement that everybody is calling for.

  25. I was swearing all weekend about the bad coverage, however the Monaco guys got this one spot on and live in the action.

    My initial reaction was Grosjean jinking right into the path of Verstappen. He was way more to the right than he should have been and braked earlier. Sadly, no-one has seemed to check this statement.

    1. Grosjean didn’t jink right though; he took a fairly normal defensive line into Ste Devote

      1. It was in Ste Devote where overtook Maldonado on lap 7 (or 6?). If we look at that footage, Maldonado is way more left of the pit-lane-line. I said it was my initial reaction. After watching it time and again, Grosjean did not jink or swirve, but stayed right-ish. Grosjean was not entirely to blame and VES neither – hence only 5 places punishment.

  26. Personally I don’t blame Verstappen at all. He is an exiting driver, tried to stay close to Grosjean, and got caught out by Grosjean breaking early. It’s just one of those things .. racing accident, it happens. Kudos to him for at least trying to attack.

  27. Massa…please shut up. Check the crash between Massa – Bernoldi in the 2002 Monaco GP.

  28. I find it strange that all Grosjean onboard shots have been removed. I saw the shots after the crash (when they were still on Youtube and G did the downshifts before the braking point. That could explain why the ‘braking’ point seemed normal to the stewards.
    As a verstappen fan i do feel he should have waited. He also was abit to eager on Maldonado, but putting down the pressure is also what forces the front-runner into a mistake. Its a fine line.

  29. Verstappen was penalised for being a17 year old, politics have not changed since the Monaco GP in 1984!!!

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