Ahead of the Singapore Grand Prix the possibility Lewis Hamilton might match his hero Ayrton Senna’s career statistics of 41 wins from 161 starts became a focal point.
There was so much anticipation about this potential aligning of the stars it was almost bound not to happen. Instead Sebastian Vettel took the victory – and by doing so became only the third driver in the history of Formula One to win more races than the great Brazilian three-times champion:
| Driver | Wins | Starts | Wins per team | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Michael Schumacher | 91 | 306 | Benetton (19), Ferrari (72) |
| 2 | Alain Prost | 51 | 199 | Renault (9), McLaren (30), Ferrari (5), Williams (7) |
| 3 | Sebastian Vettel | 42 | 152 | Toro Rosso (1), Red Bull (38), Ferrari (3) |
| 4 | Ayrton Senna | 41 | 161 | Lotus (6), McLaren (35) |
| 5 | Lewis Hamilton | 40 | 161 | McLaren (21), Mercedes (19) |
Astonishingly, Vettel is not yet halfway towards Michael Schumacher’s record. Asked after the race if he could ever think of reaching the record, Vettel admitted “Prost’s is in sight” but doubted he could emulate Schumacher.
Vettel’s third win of the year means he has now scored as many victories as Nico Rosberg this season. He also took his first pole position since 2013, the 46th of his career.
This was Ferrari’s first pole position since the 2012 German Grand Prix, ending a 60-race long streak for them without starting from the front. This was the longest pole drought in their history – one more than their 59-race race run without a pole between the 1990 Portuguese and 1994 German Grands Prix, though that covered a longer time period.
Singapore kept up its record of seeing the Safety Car appear at least once in every race it has held, which helped Vettel lead the race from start to finish. This has only happened twice this year and it occurred in the last two races, Hamilton having done so in Italy.
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However Vettel narrowly failed to claim a ‘grand slam’ as he was beaten to the fastest lap of the race by Daniel Ricciardo. The Red Bull driver set a 1’50.041 on the 52nd lap which Vettel came within 0.028s of on his next tour, but was unable to beat.
Vettel did sustain his streak of top-two finishes in Singapore, however: this was his sixth in a row.
One of the two Safety Car appearances in Singapore was caused by someone wandering onto the track. Curiously, two other instances of the same thing happening at Hockenheim in 2000 and Silverstone in 2003 also resulted in wins for Ferrari.
Hamilton failed to get an eighth consecutive pole which would have tied Senna’s record. He was off the front row for the first time in 20 races, which is the second-longest streak of all time, again behind Senna who managed four more.
Hamilton’s retirement meant he failed to score points for the first time in 19 races. That’s his best-ever run of points scores but is eight shy of Kimi Raikkonen’s record of 27. This also means there are now no drivers who have completed every racing lap this year: Vettel has the most with 789.
Finally, Alexander Rossi became the first American driver to start an F1 race since Scott Speed in the 2007 European Grand Prix. Following that race Speed lost his place in the team to the driver who won yesterday’s race.
Review the year so far in statistics here:
- 2015 F1 championship points
- 2015 F1 season records
- 2015 F1 race data
- 2015 F1 qualifying data
- 2015 F1 retirements and penalties
- 2015 F1 strategy and pit stops
- 2015 F1 driver form guides
Have you spotted any other interesting stats and facts from the Singapore Grand Prix? Share them in the comments.
2015 Singapore Grand Prix
- 2015 Singapore Grand Prix team radio transcript
- 2015 Singapore Grand Prix Predictions Championship results
- Top ten pictures from the 2015 Singapore Grand Prix
- Vote for your 2015 Singapore Grand Prix Driver of the Weekend
- Vettel passes Senna before Hamilton reaches him
KaIIe (@kaiie)
21st September 2015, 12:42
First race with a person on track (in modern times) that Rubens Barrichello didn’t win.
And unless I’m very much mistaken, first race since the 2008 Brazilian GP that Kimi Räikkönen and his teammate were both on the podium but Kimi was placed lower than his teammate (in 2009 Kimi was always the sole Ferrari on the podium, and during the Lotus years he was always ahead of Grosjean when they both ended up on the podium).
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
21st September 2015, 13:33
@Kaiie
Depending on how you define “modern”, there’s quite a few pre-2000 examples of that happening (including one with an FIA president!):
https://www.racefans.net/2012/08/20/f1s-top-ten-luckiest-escapes/#track-invaders
goondu86 (@goondu86)
21st September 2015, 12:49
We Singapore fans will always welcome Bernd Mayländer. Personally I much preferred the old SLS AMG, the exhaust note of that car was really nice.
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
21st September 2015, 12:56
@goodu86 Blame the turbocharger :)
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
21st September 2015, 12:57
@goondu86
Matthijs (@matthijs)
21st September 2015, 13:01
I think after Vettel, Bernd Mayländer has led the most laps of all drivers since 2008 :)
Jure
21st September 2015, 21:43
Good stat! But pretty sure LH and NR have lead more… Than the safety car.
Matthijs (@matthijs)
22nd September 2015, 8:41
I just meant Singapore alone. But then again: it’s not a very serious fact to begin with!
Alexander (@)
21st September 2015, 12:57
Raikkonen now has the most 3rd finishes of all time with 29, leaving behind Barichello and Alonso on 28.
kpcart
21st September 2015, 13:06
I am surprised Vettel matching Senna is so many fewer races, and now passing Senna has got hardly any attention. Comparing Hamilton to Senna has been led by Hamilton himself his whole career as he has been the only one that talks about him. Senna was also Alonso’s hero and I am sure many others, but they don’t brag about emulating their hero. I am sure I will get some replies that is the media asking questions to Hamilton, but come on, it is more then that, we have know since day 1 that Hamilton has a Senna complex. Vettel lets his driving do the talking in comparisons to his hero Schumacher.
Jorge Lardone (@jorge-lardone)
21st September 2015, 15:59
+1
Mijail (@mijail)
21st September 2015, 16:17
Plus him saying i think i could have been friends with Ayrton and then we could go and dyed each others hair blonde
Ernie2492 (@ernietheracefan)
22nd September 2015, 0:35
LOL.., Bruno isn’t amused..xD
Apex Assassin
22nd September 2015, 4:29
But but but Lewis is the next Senna!
he’s the best driver ever! I just love him and his music so much and I’m from Eastfarthington so he’s the best driver ever! SkyF1 says it’s true!
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Jure
22nd September 2015, 8:06
Maybe Vettel isnt big about Senna because his childhood hero is Schumacher. Still firmly 50 odd wins ahead.
Hamilton might reach Alain Prost first. But on Schumacher records if at all… Vettel will be there first. Especially pole positions.
daryl
22nd September 2015, 9:01
Who says Vettel’s not big about Senna? OP is talking about him and other drivers not talking about him as frequently as Hamilton does. Alonso is a very good example. And Vettel doesn’t talk about Schumacher constantly. And he’s been compared to Schumacher far more than Hamilton’s ever been compared to Senna. He was dubbed as Baby Schumi, Junior Schumi etc. He expressly said that he is his own man and he’s not trying to “emulate” Schumacher or anyone. There is a whole section in wikipedia comparing him to Schumacher LOL. And I’m not saying this because Wikipedia is the most reliable source of information or anything. Just that it’s been something people see in him far more clearly.
JCost (@jcost)
22nd September 2015, 9:47
Lewis and Seb will probably send Prost to #4. Since 2007 Lewis and Seb have won half the races…
kanan
22nd September 2015, 10:02
OMFG they are monsters :D half? wow.
Janh Kougan (@sameercader)
22nd September 2015, 12:53
250% correct
Kim Philby (@philby)
21st September 2015, 13:23
Vettel with 4, Hamilton and Alonso with 2 wins in Singapore have the exact same number WDCs.
Also Singapore GP has never been won by someone who isn’t a world champion.
ColdFly F1 ( @coldfly ) (@)
21st September 2015, 13:29
great stat @philby!
And we can of course ad all other current F1 drivers bar BUT/RAI to that first stat list! ;-)
russ
21st September 2015, 17:37
Cool stat.
JCost (@jcost)
22nd September 2015, 9:48
So if Lewis wins WDC 2015 he will win Singapore 2016 GP.
kanan
22nd September 2015, 10:03
LOL. Nice catch!
kanan
22nd September 2015, 10:04
But, it wasn’t like that a week ago. This is something new. Not a trend really. So you can’t say that.
David-A (@david-a)
21st September 2015, 13:31
– Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso have the same number of Singapore Grand Prix wins as they do world titles.
– Hamilton off the front row for the first time since Hungary 2014, ending his run of consecutive front row starts at 21, 3 short of Senna’s all time record.
– Kimi Raikkonen’s 79th podium, leaving him one short of Ayrton Senna.
– Vettel has finished top 5 in every Singapore GP.
– Alonso’s first DNF here, and first time he wasn’t in the top 4 in this race.
– Hulkenberg has had a collision in every race Vettel has won this year, bringing out the safety car in the last 2.
ColdFly F1 ( @coldfly ) (@)
21st September 2015, 13:58
@david-a, Hulkenberg of course shares that last stat with Maldonado!
Button would say: I could have known!
dynamite
21st September 2015, 23:54
Sebastian Vettel’s win was also his 75th podium. Of 152 starts.
yogart
22nd September 2015, 7:39
First guy to win another GP at any of these given tracks will have their 5th GP win at the same venue, for the first time among current drivers:
Kimi Raikkonen: Spa-Francorchamps
Lewis Hamilton: Hungaroring, Shanghai, Montréal
Sebastian Vettel: Suzuka, Kuala Lumpur, Singapour
mateuss (@mateuss)
21st September 2015, 13:54
What I find fascinating is that Hamilton has not been able to string together more than two wins this year, with the most dominant car in my lifetime.
And in actual fact, he only has achieved it twice in his career, bot times last year with a 4 win streak and a 5 win streak.
In comparison Vettel has had no problem to string more than two wins together with: 4,3,3,4 and 9 win streaks.
Traverse
21st September 2015, 14:22
Maybe this years Mercedes isn’t the most dominant in your life time then? Considering how much faster the Ferrari magically became over this past weekend!!
When RedBull was dominant no other team managed to dominate them at a track the way Ferrari did this weekend. Also Hamilton has a tougher teammate to contend with, Mark Webber wasn’t that competitive at any point during his F1 career.
ColdFly F1 - @coldfly (@)
21st September 2015, 14:38
This one is for the mathematicians guys. @mateuss
(in a dominant team) with a weaker team-mate you’ll probably get longer win streaks, but you might end up with less win-streaks!
F1shredder
21st September 2015, 14:54
What are you talking about?… The situation you describe about RBR was only true in 2011 and the second half of 2013, that´s the only season they were truly dominant. Look at the stats, it´s clear to see, they were dominated many times, and it wasn´t down to strange circumstances with a particular track and a particular type of tyre, it happened somewhat often.
The RBR car was very specific in how it managed it performance and more often than not, it only worked for Sebastian, as he is very consistent in qualy. Therefore, he could lead from pole and wouldn´t need to face the car´s biggest weakness: Low straight speed, which made it just a slightly above average car when starting away from the front row.
It´s not down to chance that Mercedes was about to beat Williams nineties record. If you look at the stats from last in this year, only one team and one driver have won races other than Mercedes. Last year it was Ricciardo and RBR, this year it is Vettel and SF, three times each. Can please look back at any of the seasons RBR won and find something similar?
In 2010, both Ferrari and McLaren won 5 races each, 5 drivers won races that year.
In 2011, McLaren won 6 races, SF won 1, again same 5 drivers winning races that year.
In 2012, 5 teams won races, Mercedes 1, SF 3, McLaren 7, Lotus 1, RBR 7, resulting in 6 different drivers winning that year.
In 2013, it was 4 teams, Lotus 1, SF 2, Mercedes 3, RBR 13.
Now, let´s compare with the last two seasons.
In 2014, Mercedes won 16 races, 18 pole positions. Only RBR won that year, 3 races.
In 2015, Mercedes has won 10 races, 12 pole positions. Only SF has won this year, 3 races.
So yeah, it gets tiring to read over and over again the same myths about how Vettel only won because he had the most dominant car in history. It was far from it, not even close to what Hamilton and Rosberg have today.
That remark about Hamilton is right… He´s a great driver, but consistency is hardly one of his strengths.
ura
21st September 2015, 18:17
Very neat summary.
Panagiotis (@papalotis)
21st September 2015, 21:03
you can bash maldonado as much as you want, but don’t you dare not mention his victory in 2012.
Jure
21st September 2015, 21:53
I luv Vettel “deniers” but history shows vettel wins, finds poles at astonishing race. Comparable to Schumacher and faster than LH and Senna.
Everything else is debatable, but part of being a great sportsman is finding the right team.
Even ignoring his previous seasons we can all agree he is astonishing this year.
Vettel has a habit of getting speed combined with long term consistency.
jak
21st September 2015, 22:34
All-round.
Janh Kougan (@sameercader)
22nd September 2015, 12:56
absolutely correct. the only reason hamilton is winning is becuase off the car
Yosbel Rodriguez
23rd September 2015, 22:44
2012 was 7 different driver
elio (@elio)
22nd September 2015, 14:22
@Traverse
In case you haven’t noticed, the 2015 W06 Merc can still beat the 2014 W05 Merc (81,51%) for the 2nd most dominant F1 car ever (and the most dominant in @mateuss lifetime). The 1988 MP4/4 McLaren still is the most dominant F1 car ever (82.92%).
Last season and out of 19 races, the W05 made 18 pole positions, won 15 races and DNF’ed / failed to score any points 5 times. And so far this season, the W06 bagged 12 pole positions, won 10 races and DNF’ed / failed to score any points just once… With still 6 races to go.
As for Red Bull, none of their cars was ever as dominant as the Mercs of the last and current seasons. Statistically, the RB07 (79.56%) is the best Red Bull car ever with 18 pole positions, 12 wins and 3 DNF’s (out of 19 races) and currently places 5th in the list of the most dominant F1 cars.
And saying Rosberg is better / more competitive than Mark Webber is just your opinion. In my own, I rate them both as average drivers and quite even, talent wise.
Kodongo (@kodongo)
21st September 2015, 14:28
Unless you were born after December 2014, (in which case, congratulations on your precocity) this is not the most dominant car of your lifetime.
The W05 (vs. W06) had a better pole position rate (94.7% vs 92.3%), win rate (84.2% vs. 76.9%) and 1-2 finish rate (57.9% vs. 53.8%).
Depending on your age, the McLaren MP4-4 (1988) also posted numbers superior to the W06 with a 93.8% pole position rate, 93.8% win rate and 62.5% 1-2 finish rate.
Sebastian Vettel recorded five 3+ win streaks over a period of 4 years. Lewis Hamilton has recorded two 3+ win streaks over a period of just over one and a half years. We’ll see what happens if Mercedes remains the force of the field.
Also, it should be noted that the quality of teammate makes a big difference. Webber averaged 1 win per season for the last three seasons of the Red Bull championship era, not exactly the stiffest of competition.
F1shredder
21st September 2015, 15:02
Well, ROS won a fair amount last year, but this year, with a car that hardly ever misses the front row, he´s won 3 out of 13 races… “not exactly the stiffest of competition.”, as you well put it.
And what is your point comparing to another Mercedes car and a McLaren? Shouldn´t you compare it to Sebastian´s RBR to check on both drivers performance?
Also, getting up to 3 consecutive wins is somewhat easy to achieve with a dominant car, more so if it is one of most dominant in the sport´s history. Going up to 9 in a row is many orders of magnitude more difficult.
Kodongo (@kodongo)
21st September 2015, 19:37
Going up to 9 in a row when all the teams had changed to focusing their attention on a new engine formula against a driver 9 races from retirement.
David-A (@david-a)
21st September 2015, 21:30
…Yet Lotus challenged Red Bull in a a handful of races with those Renault engines. F1shredder is right, 9 wins consecutively is incredibly hard to do, given that it hasn’t been done in 65 years by anyone else.
daryl
22nd September 2015, 9:04
Considering Red Bull came back the 2nd/3rd fastest team next year, apparently they also shifted enough resources for next year’s project. So, that’s not a very good argument.
markp
21st September 2015, 15:06
If this is another tedious attempt to say who is better out of 2 brilliant drivers in theory you cannot look at team mates win rate as the better driver will beat his team mate more even if the teammates are equal so you can always then taint the better drivers record by saying his teammate is not as good as the other drivers. This is theoretical and I would not pick between Vettel or Hamilton they are both brilliant.
Webber beat Rosberg when they were teammates? So many variables though season to season only way to settle it and take out 1 season weird performances is for both to be at the same team over 5 seasons.
tmax (@tmax)
21st September 2015, 17:01
@markp I would totally agree with you. Statistics can be generally skewed to provide justification to ones own perspective. But to be honest while we all might have our favorites among the 2 (Lewis and Vettel). It has slowly started to emerge that Lewis and Vettel are the 2 dominant force of the era. It is good in a certain way. Like we remember the Prost – Senna era. Both these drivers were lucky to have their careers nurtutred from the very young age by big sponsors and they were lucky to be in the right cars at the right time. Good for the sport I would say.
While there can be many contrasts between the 2, there is one clear similarity. Both of them work through the setup of the car over the weekend and it all culminates in the final 2 minutes of the Q3 of the qualifying these 2 compared to anybody else in the F1 grid have the ability to really extract the maximum out of the car in that tense 2 minutes, make minimal mistakes and get the best laps possible out them in those 120 seconds. I believe that is what makes them great and different.
Compare that to Senna-Schumacher era in which both Senna or Schumacher would set a blazing lap in the qualifying session and wait for the someone else to beat that time. Trust me I loved that Free-format qualifying as much I Love the current one. It was just pure thrill to watch Senna or Schumacher wait in the a car after setting a blistering lap time challenging others to beat it.
Having said that Lewis and Vettel have real nerves of steel to cope up that pressure in the last few minutes.
I believe Alonso is a much rounded and talented driver. I would say it is this one aspect that Vettel and Lewis fare better than him.
mateuss (@mateuss)
21st September 2015, 15:27
I counted the W05-W06 as the same car, for simplicity.
And I was comparing their careers as a whole. Hamilton also had a championship winning car in 2007 and 2008, (2010 somewhat), 2012 (but unreliable though), and now 2014 and 2015, while Vettel has had WDC capable cars in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, so their careers are quite comparable.
Vettel simply is more consistent with his performance and that often means adapting to and acing difficult races like Mercedes had here and in Hungary, and it means constantly beating one’s team mate.
Vettel’s average specific race result delta over whole of his carrer is 2.45, where as Hamilton’s is 2.80. If we assign more wight to retirements and non finishes the difference increases further still.
Janh Kougan (@sameercader)
21st September 2015, 16:10
i totally agree.
Kotrba (@kotrba)
21st September 2015, 16:38
Well if you count Mclaren in 2010 and 2012 WDC capable cars, then you cant leave Red Bull in 2009 out of that list, plus Ferrari this year if it turns out that Singapore was not an exception. ( the season is still not over )
Then you have to look at the teamates they have had an I believe that Rosberg is far more complex and faster driver then Webber was, maybe Webber from 2010 would equal Rosberg but since then his results fell horribly.
Then the result is not clear at all.
ura
21st September 2015, 18:22
How do people think Rosberg has the race craft to finish ahead of Webber I don’t know….
uan (@uan)
21st September 2015, 21:20
@kotrba
Webber was a much better qualifier than Rosberg, one of the fastest during his time in F1. His biggest issue was poor starts, and with the Red Bull that was a kiss of death. His second biggest issue was not getting on top of the Pirelli tires (one of the advantages Ricciardo had over Vettel last year).
ColdFly F1 - @coldfly (@)
21st September 2015, 21:30
#ura for Rosberg ‘to finish ahead of Webber’ it’s not race-craft lacking, but the fact that they’re racing in different series :p
ura
21st September 2015, 22:37
@coldfly Well, apparently we are comparing drivers, probably at their best etc. You know what I mean…. :D
merabella
21st September 2015, 23:57
Well then, if 2013 RBR is considered “dominant”, 2009 McLaren could be considered “WDC-capable” LOL
Kingshark (@kingshark)
22nd September 2015, 19:17
@uan
2014-Rosberg was a better qualifying than any version of Webber.
Kodongo (@kodongo)
21st September 2015, 17:02
How does one have a ‘somewhat’ championship winning car?
The fact is Vettel has had a class leading car 4 years and brought home 4 championships.
Hamilton has had a class leading car 2 years (2014-15) and looks to be bringing home his second Mercedes championship.
2007-2008 Ferrari and Mercedes were about equal with slight advantages one way or the other depending on the circuit.
2010, Red Bull was clearly a cut above the rest of the field.
2012, the car was there but the team (McLaren pit stops and forgetting to put enough fuel in Spain 1st to 24th place) and the luck 3 DNFs (for which the three other drivers received penalties) and retiring from the lead a few times meant he finished well off.
Of course Vettel is going to have a better record against his team mates, Hamilton has spent 4 of his 9 years besides World Champions (and finished ahead in 3 of those 4 seasons). Vettel is just facing his first one now and he is hardly in his prime.
You quote Hungary 2015 as an exemplar of Sebastian’s excellence, but you could use Hungary 2013 as an example of Lewis.
David-A (@david-a)
21st September 2015, 17:17
So were Ferrari and Mclaren.
Baron
21st September 2015, 20:57
But also unreliable. Just like the 2012 McLaren.
Button wasn’t in his prime in 2011. Still managed to beat Hamilton.
And? Both have had brilliant races. That’s why they’re driving for the best teams who enable them to win races and championships.
Ola Ray
22nd September 2015, 10:40
Malaysia – Pit stop
Bahrain – Pit stop
Spain – Pit crew
Valencia – Pit stop and Maldonaldo
Germany – Puncture
Spa – Grosjaen
Singapore – Engine failure
Japan – set up and new upgrade
Korea – set up
Abu Dhabi – Engine failure
Brazil – Hulkenburg
The 2012 season could have easily be won by Lewis but was totally unlucky , the problem here is that Mclaren were unable to build a car that will perform at all tracks
paul
22nd September 2015, 10:47
McLaren was fast everywhere. They were clearly the fastest. Problem was there was too much operational mistakes.
Ola Ray
22nd September 2015, 11:34
They were not fast everywhere, go to the Bristish Grand Prix where they struggled to match RBR, Ferrari and Lotus , Even Allan Murray said WHAT HAPPENED TO MCLAREN during after race ceremony I think Hamilton and Button finished 8th and 9th, India and Korea Macca struggled.
uan (@uan)
21st September 2015, 21:15
@kodongo
“the W05 (vs. W06) had a better pole position rate (94.7% vs 92.3%), win rate (84.2% vs. 76.9%) and 1-2 finish rate (57.9% vs. 53.8%).”
your stats are faulty – you are comparing 19 races against 13. If the Mercs get all the pole positions remaining this year, that rate will end up the same. Same with the win rate if the Mercs run the table.
Not sure about 1-2 finish rate, I’m too lazy to check on that one.
JCost (@jcost)
22nd September 2015, 9:56
People try hard to make Lewis a regular driver. You don’t have to talk down Lewis to compliment Seb and vice-versa, both are great drivers. Sure being in fast cars helped the career of both but they did not end up driving great cars by pure luck, they earned it.
lexlut
22nd September 2015, 8:28
Vettel has such dominant drives sometimes. I was looking at some stats… He has multiple patches where he drove races/laps consecutively over a season. He has so many GPs where he drove from first lap to finish. He’s led such a big portion of laps in 2011/13. The percentage….WOW. I’m guessing: consistency.
Adam (@adamgoh)
21st September 2015, 14:56
With Vettel’s win for Ferrari in Singapore, all Singapore Grands Prix have won by the same 3 drivers: Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel. All 3 have won for different teams: Alonso with Renault and Ferrari, Hamilton with McLaren and Mercedes, and Vettel with Red Bull and Ferrari.
Enigma (@enigma)
21st September 2015, 17:26
@adamgoh Nice!
ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
21st September 2015, 15:41
The statistic concerning Prost’s wins is staggering: multiple wins for FOUR different teams!
This statistics column always makes my Monday.
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
21st September 2015, 16:13
I was quite surprised to see Hamilton has to thank Mercedes for almost 50% of his wins.
safeeuropeanhome (@debaser91)
21st September 2015, 16:35
Technically, Hamilton can thank Mercedes for 100% of his victories given he has never won a race in a non-Mercedes powered car.
paul
21st September 2015, 18:23
Hamilton needs a Merc to win his races :P
Janh Kougan (@sameercader)
21st September 2015, 16:11
hamilton is no where near the level of Vettel. Seb is country miles ahead off hamilton on raw talent, consistency and performance
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
21st September 2015, 16:14
Although I would also place Vettel higher as Hamilton on my wishlist/dreamteam/whatever I think country miles is an exaggeration. Hamilton is already one of the greatest the sport has ever seen, his win tally, titles, poles etc prove that.
Mijail (@mijail)
21st September 2015, 16:46
I dont think you can define or calculate the “greatness” of an F1 driver with numbers the equation will just have so many variables, a lot of us agree that Senna was the greatest so far, but he is only 4th on that list and Vettel has a greater wins/starts average. So to me talking about numbers and numbers is just boring.
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
21st September 2015, 16:59
Name one great who does not also have the numbers?
Kodongo (@kodongo)
21st September 2015, 17:06
Stirling Moss, Gilles Villeneuve, Jochen Rindt.
safeeuropeanhome (@debaser91)
21st September 2015, 17:19
Certainly there have been some great drivers whose numbers don’t quite match their talent. In addition to those three above, Ronnie Peterson could perhaps be added. Maybe Dan Gurney too, the only driver Jim Clark supposedly feared. Whether you’d call them ‘greats of F1’ is very much open to debate though.
David-A (@david-a)
21st September 2015, 17:29
@kodongo
Moss actually had good stats in every area except for a lack of titles. 16 wins and 16 poles from less than 70 races is one of the highest ever ratios. The other two you reference had their careers cut short.
ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
22nd September 2015, 0:23
Jacky Ickx – 8 wins from 116 starts, yet he was second overall in the championship in both 1969 and 1970… certainly one of the Greats.
safeeuropeanhome (@debaser91)
21st September 2015, 16:36
Why do fans of a particular driver feel the need to denigrate other drivers? It’s rather boring.
David-A (@david-a)
21st September 2015, 17:23
@debaser91 Exactly. It’s annoying when fans of certain drivers can’t show mutual respect.
OmarRoncal - Go Seb!!! - @omarr-pepper (@)
21st September 2015, 21:20
@debaser91 maybe we usually idealise our favorite driver as the only one with the skills. I personally make maaaaaaaaaaany comments complaining about what Hamilton says… but that is off-track right? On the track, the man is a real deal, as much as Sebastian.
I agree with many here that saying who is better is almost impossible. They will never be teammates, even then people would keep saying the team is favoring one over the other. This is the neverending debate, it’s fun and it’s what makes us watch the races in the end, to see if our favorite superb driver can beat the othe superb one.
ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
22nd September 2015, 0:26
So true!
ColdFly F1 - @coldfly (@)
21st September 2015, 21:42
Great comment! @debaser91
JCost (@jcost)
22nd September 2015, 10:11
@safeeuropeanhome
It’s childish. It’s like Messi fans saying “Ronaldo is nothing special” and Ronaldo fans saying “Messi is nothing special”.
I’ve always had my fave drivers (Mansell, Schumacher, Hamilton) but I don’t fail to appreciate other greats like Prost, Senna, Hakkinen, Alonso, Vettel, Räikkönen.
David-A (@david-a)
21st September 2015, 17:21
@sameercader
I disagree. Hamilton is on par with Vettel as he is also an incredible driver, you don’t come in and almost take the title as a rookie otherwise. I see Vettel and Hamilton as the Messi and Ronaldo of F1. They’re even the same ages!
Jure
21st September 2015, 22:02
I agree 2/3.
nehir
21st September 2015, 22:39
@sameercader I didn’t even bother to read this part of the comments section (your comment and the replies) after I saw your first sentence. And I am a Vettel fan.
Janh Kougan (@sameercader)
22nd September 2015, 13:01
very good for you
nehir
22nd September 2015, 19:25
Obviously.
TribalTalker (@tribaltalker)
21st September 2015, 16:35
In the old days F1 had two powerfully limiting factors on driver accomplishments – car reliability and sudden death. Both of those problems have received a lot of attention, although there is much more to do.
Thinking about Senna’s records for a moment – he’s just lost a position in all-time wins to Vettel and will most likely lose another position to Hamilton quite soon. Senna’s podium record is also under extreme pressure from Raikkonen.
Even Prost’s apparently unassailable stats could be challenged by Vettel or Hamilton within a season. Astonishing.
We live in an age of record-breaking wonders.
paul
21st September 2015, 18:25
Well… reliability is still a factor. Without any unreliability Vettel would be surpassing Prost’s total, not Senna’s. And Alonso would have 10 less race wins.
Alex Ward
22nd September 2015, 0:27
Prost lost as many wins to reliability as Vettel, they have both had a lot of breakdowns…
paul
22nd September 2015, 6:59
You know, I meant as a number. But for some drivers inherited wins due to other drivers’ reliability issues compensate for or even surpass their own unreliability. I don’t have the numbers for Prost.
Art (@artanonim)
21st September 2015, 16:36
With 41 points in the WCC this year, Toro Rosso has already matched their best-ever result – Buemi and Algersuari needed an entire season in 2011 to score as much.
STR also has a chance of matching their best-ever WCC position (6th, 2008), as they’re only 9 points down on Lotus, with 6 races left.
Art (@artanonim)
21st September 2015, 16:44
(of course, we need to remember about changes in points distribution, but it still shows that Max and Carlos are doing a great job this year)
PorscheF1 (@xtwl)
21st September 2015, 16:49
What perhaps should bother us more is how they could have had so much more if we work around some of Verstappens rash moved and Sainz his DNFs…
Colin (@kairat)
21st September 2015, 16:52
Strictly speaking, STR had more points in 2008 if we convert the points into the new point system.
David-A (@david-a)
21st September 2015, 17:25
@kairat Yep, I make it 107 points (Vettel 93, Bourdais 14).
paul
21st September 2015, 18:26
+1
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
22nd September 2015, 7:30
@kairat @artanonim Though of course in all fairness they also had a Ferrari-engined RB4 in 2008…. but ifwe’re talking about SAI and VES, yeah…they’re good (so are their cars this year though – closest to RBR since beating them in the WCC using the aforementioned Ferrari-engined RB4)
JCost (@jcost)
22nd September 2015, 10:15
And they’re not the “masters or reliability”. Carlos and Max are the real deal.
Erivaldo moreira (@erivaldonin)
21st September 2015, 18:17
Came to an end a sequence of 133 races with British drivers in points
First GP for the car # 53 non-indi 500
900th GP that a driver starts from the position 16
800th race start for car # 5
First time since the 1991 San Marino GP, the Finnish drivers finishes third and fifth
First time since the Italian GP 2009 that Button and Hamilton retired in the same race
First time since the Italian Grand Prix 2010, the Ferrari
drivers finished in the position they started.
First time Daniil Kvyat starts in 4ª position
First time Max Verstappen starts in 8 ª place
First time Felipe Nasr starts in 16ª position
First time Felipe NASR FINISH in 10th place
70th time a French driver is classified for having completed 90% of the race.
BT52B (@)
21st September 2015, 19:45
@erivaldonin Button finished second in Italy 2009
Erivaldo moreira (@erivaldonin)
21st September 2015, 21:16
You’re right, in fact it was in the previous race,
Belgian GP.
periwinkle (@shena)
22nd September 2015, 2:59
I like these obscure stats. :D
xylon
21st September 2015, 18:33
Vettel ends the pole streak of the dominant team Mercedes which was about to achieve the same number of poles as Williams did in 92-93. The guy who ended that particular streak was Ayrton Senna. He also prevented another driver from achieving the longest consecutive pole record of Senna. And by winning the same race Vettel also surpassed Senna’s total number of victories.
Erivaldo moreira (@erivaldonin)
21st September 2015, 18:41
great!
ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
22nd September 2015, 0:31
Wow! My head hurts trying to wrap around that one:)
zekeri
22nd September 2015, 7:02
A night date with destiny :P
Bleu (@bleu)
21st September 2015, 19:09
* I think this was the first time since Canadian GP 1989 as two hours was filled on the lap the race was supposed to finish anyway.
* No driver has finished every race of the year after Hamilton and Massa dropped out. Vettel and Rosberg have been classified at every race while Nasr and Bottas have no DNFs but one DNS.
* Alexander Rossi was the first driver to make his race debut at Singapore.
ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
22nd September 2015, 1:26
Is Rossi not also the first American to race in F1 at Singapore?
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
22nd September 2015, 7:33
@ferrox-glideh Yes he is.
Himmat
22nd September 2015, 9:29
Scott Speed raced here back in the day.
suds
21st September 2015, 21:04
Hamilton’s record is still more impressive than Vettel. We’re talking about driver records not team. So its not about car/team dominance but how tough a teammate you had.
Vettel racked up wins and podiums in 4 years like no bodys business because his teammate was so weak. He’s doing the same with Kimi.
Hamilton had to go through Alonso, Button, and Rosberg. None of which were pushovers. Kovi was the only driver Hamilton really dominated, and that was a short period of time when McLaren was battling a formidable Ferrari.
When Ferrari hires a formidable driver alongside Vettel, or Kimi decides to raise his game, Vettel will cement his legacy. Until then, his records won’t carry as much weight because of the fashion they were achieved.
David-A (@david-a)
21st September 2015, 22:11
Four years, which I assume includes 2010 and 2012, yet Webber was stronger in 2010 than Rosberg this year, and stronger in both years than Kovalainen. And in those two years Red Bull had strong Ferraris and Mclarens to deal with. Raikkonen > Kovalainen too, and the SF15-T is much, much worse compared to the Mercedes than the MP4-23 was to the F2008.
I’ve seen these “when this happens” excuses for years. If Kimi “raises his game”, it probably won’t cement anything. It’ll just be Vettel struggling against a “weak pushover”.
David-A (@david-a)
21st September 2015, 22:12
I might even add that I thought Webber in 2010 performed similarly to Button that year, and better than Button in 2012.
Ola Ray
22nd September 2015, 11:22
In 4 Seasons of Webber driving the most dominating car he won 7 races, whereas Rosberg in almost 3 seassons he has won 11 races.
David-A (@david-a)
22nd September 2015, 13:05
…And that doesn’t make Webber’s 2010 performance weaker than Rosberg’s this or even last year, where you know, RBR actually had some competition.
leyla
21st September 2015, 22:43
Your logic is so faulty that I cannot even bother to correct you or reason with you.
ceng
21st September 2015, 22:56
1.”We’re talking about driver records not team. So its not about car/team dominance but how tough a teammate you had.”
How is a driver supposed to win a race without a suitable car? We are talking about “race wins” indeed. You cannot win without an hefty dose of good luck, or a car good enough.
It’s not just about teammate. Drivers normally have to compete against other drivers in other teams. But I guess you forgot over the last 2 years how it’s supposed to be.
2.”Vettel racked up wins and podiums in 4 years like no bodys business because his teammate was so weak.”
He didn’t win that many races. His car was never as dominant as -let’s say- Mercedes. So other people were able to win races and even lots and lots of poles.
3.”Hamilton had to go through Alonso, Button, and Rosberg.”
Hamilton won 18 of his wins alongside Rosberg in these Mercedes cars over these last 2 years. And Rosberg is not a better or faster driver than Mark Webber.
Hamilton had another win with Rosberg at Mercedes in 2013. And 5 wins alongside Kovalainen. That’s a lot of race wins with “meh” teammates for a guy who has 40 wins. And I guess for Hamilton fans Button being weak or strong depends on the “context” of the conversation.
4.”Until then, his records won’t carry as much weight because of the fashion they were achieved.”
Are you gonna say the same thing for Hamilton’s Mercedes wins then…
Mega (@)
22nd September 2015, 2:03
I think you guys are missing point. Look at the stats from 2009-2013, the results don’t lie.
Even though Mercedes was dominant last year, race wins and pole positions were not certain for Hamilton. Between Vettel and Webber, you pretty much knew who was going to win or take pole. On top of that, the margin between teammates were much bigger. If Ham took pole, Ros was 2nd and vice versa. If Ham won, Ros was 2nd and vice versa. So Vettel never had the problem of his teammate taking wins and pole positions away from him the way Hamilton did with Alonso or Button. That is crucial. Particularly in 2010 and 2011. It made Alonso’s and Webber’s title aspirations very difficult because Hamilton, Button, and Kimi took wins away from them, making it very difficult to beat Vettel. They say the first person you must beat is your teammate. When your teammate is not a threat, your job gets a lot easier.
Wins Poles
Year
2013 Vet(13!) Web(0!) Vet(9!) Web(2)
2012 Vet(5) Web(2) Vet(6) Web(2)
2011 Vet(11!) Web(1) Vet(15!) Web(3)
2010 Vet(5) Web(4) Vet(10!) Web(5)
2009 Vet(4) Web(2) Vet(4) (1)
And of course 2015 where he has 3 wins to Kimi’s 0!
Vettel is a good driver, but he never had a challenging teammate. Webber was only in play one year when Vettel had a string of costly DNFs. He’s never had that pressure, except last year with Ricciardo. So his entire F1 career, he only really had 1 year with a challenging teammate. And then he switched to Ferrari.
zekeri
22nd September 2015, 8:40
Pointing out the inconsistencies:
“On top of that, the margin between teammates were much bigger. If Ham took pole, Ros was 2nd and vice versa. If Ham won, Ros was 2nd and vice versa.”
Is that because how close Hamilton and Rosberg are, or is it because how dominant Mercedes are? I bet it is the second. Now that Ferrari closed the gap to Mercedes somewhat, Rosberg has been in trouble to stay at the front!
“So Vettel never had the problem of his teammate taking wins and pole positions away from him the way Hamilton did with Alonso or Button. That is crucial. Particularly in 2010 and 2011.”
In 2010, everyone was calling for Red Bull to support Webber at the expense of Vettel to secure the championship. Webber won 9 races and numerous poles with Red Bull. How did Vettel not have any problems with his teammate taking wins and poles? Is that why he didn’t listen to team order in Malaysia 2013? 2nd race just after a season such as 2012 where he didn’t even have the fastest or most unreliable car for the most part and had to make do with whatever he could.
“It made Alonso’s and Webber’s title aspirations very difficult because Hamilton, Button, and Kimi took wins away from them, making it very difficult to beat Vettel.”
Those guys didn’t just take away wins from Alonso or Webber, they took away wins from Vettel too. They were not even in the same team as Alonso or Webber to be getting in their way.
kpcart
22nd September 2015, 9:03
The way I look at it Webber is a great driver, while vettek is one of the greatest, Hamilton would have only achieved half the wins of vettel in 09-13 if in a redbull against Webber… It would have been similar to Hamilton v button in McLaren days, where button scored more points.
Mayank (@mjf1fan)
21st September 2015, 21:12
There is an interesting fact regarding Singapore GP winner. The last 4 winners of Singapore GP went on to win the WDC i.e. in 2011, 12, 13 Vettel won Singapore GP and WDC while Hamilton won last year.
Could this year’s victory be a sign for Vettel ? :P My heart wants him to be the WDC, but mind says naah…Hamilton has it covered this time :)
periwinkle (@shena)
22nd September 2015, 2:55
There’s a longer standing record opposite to that: since Schumi in 2004 season, no Hungarian Grand Prix winner won WDC in that year. So we will see one of them get broken this year..
‘My heart wants him to be the WDC, but mind says naah…Hamilton has it covered this time :)’
Exactly. ’49’ is simply a staggering amount of points to catch up over 6 races (or any number of races for that matter) against a driver in a top form. Being realistic, I’d consider one more win before the season ends a success for Ferrari.
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
22nd September 2015, 7:36
@shena I can’t help but think about Kimi being 17 points behind #1 with 2 races to go in 2007 though….
merabella
22nd September 2015, 8:44
Yeah that’s EXACTLY what I thought when I read somewhere about Vettel being 2 victories behind Hamilton at this point.
Ola Ray
22nd September 2015, 11:39
Well FERRARI has lost a WDC title on the final day of 97, 98, 99, 05, 06, 08, 10, 12 season… so they are a serial choker
Mayank (@mjf1fan)
22nd September 2015, 12:06
@shena Yeah that record as well…..I forgot about it… I think Singapore GP’s trend will be broken.
But if Mercedes are seriously hampered by this latest tyre pressure rule, we might get Vettel as WDC. As @davidnotcoulthard mentioned below about Kimi’s WDC , it might happen same with Vettel this time around. Stranger things have happened.
Ola Ray
22nd September 2015, 11:30
So what happened to 2008, 2009, 2010.. or should we scrap that from the record book
Mayank (@mjf1fan)
22nd September 2015, 12:08
@omar22 I just stated a trend wwhich started from 2011. Ofcourse, there was no such trend in previous years.
Simtek (@)
21st September 2015, 21:20
Vettel, Ricciardo and Raikkonen remained in first, second and third places respectively, without changing positions, for the entire race. The last time this happened was the 1992 British Grand Prix, when Mansell, Patrese and Brundle ran first, second and third from lights to flag. Senna was also fourth for the entire race up until his retirement towards the end. Bahrain 2010 almost saw a repeat of this before Vettel dramatically slowed down towards the end.
Jure
21st September 2015, 22:06
That was strange yes… But it was a race purely based on pace.
ceng
21st September 2015, 22:59
I thought it was weird. Interesting that it’s such a rare occurrence indeed.
ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
22nd September 2015, 1:28
Great comment.
Shrieker (@shrieker)
21st September 2015, 23:27
Pffft. It doesn’t even matter. Hamilton will have surpassed him before the end of the season anyway.
periwinkle (@shena)
22nd September 2015, 3:20
From Ferrari’s own report, this is the first win for Ferrari in a second half since ’10 Korea.
richochet
22nd September 2015, 7:04
That was a horrendously unlucky race for Vettel.
Sergio B. Perez (@sergio-perez)
22nd September 2015, 10:13
For all the media fuss that was made of Senna and Hamilton and the last couple of comments of Lewis regarding the issue, it was kind of ironic Vettel being the record beater.
Honestly was Schumacher really Vettel’s hero? Why do I have the impression he was also a Senna fan? I read this somewhere but don’t recall where…
paul
22nd September 2015, 10:49
He’s a fan of Formula 1 :D Like you and me apparently.
miky
22nd September 2015, 11:19
His childhood heroes “The 3 Michaels”: Schumacher, Jordan, Jackson.
I heard that he wanted to be a singer (a la Jackson) but realised he didn’t have the voice. So he became a Formula 1 driver.
:D :D :D
Fudge Ahmed (@)
22nd September 2015, 10:31
My bad, it wasnt edited out. I wil go and sit in the corner now and think about what i’ve done…
Craig Woollard (@craig-o)
22nd September 2015, 11:59
Sergio Perez has scored points in every Singapore Grand Prix he has contested, and on each occasion he has either matched or improved on his previous result.
First 1-3 for Ferrari since Spain 2013. Still looking for their first 1-2 since the infamous 2010 German Grand Prix however.
Daniel Ricciardo achieved his third fastest lap here. He now has more this season than Kimi Raikkonen.
Felipe Massa’s first DNF since Germany last year. He had four DNFs in 2014.
First points for both Carlos Sainz and Felipe Nasr since Canada.
Each of the top four has had a DNF in the last four races: Raikkonen (4th) at Hungary, Vettel (3rd) at Spa, Rosberg (2nd) at Monza and Hamilton (1st) at Singapore.
Mercedes can no longer beat their points total (701), win total (16) or pole total (18) from 2014. The latter two can be equalled however, and the points total is skewed slightly due to the unnecessary usage of double points.
paulgilb (@paulgilb)
22nd September 2015, 22:32
First time Ricciardo has officially finished 2nd.
Force India’s first non-mechanical DNF this season.
First DNF for Williams this season (although they also had Bottas’ DNS in Australia). All teams have now had at least 1 mechanical DNF in 2015.
First no-score for Hamilton since Belgium 2014 – longest unbroken streak is now Kvyat with 5.
First non-finish for Massa since Germany 2014. Longest unbroken streak of finishes is now Bottas with 12 (although Vettel has been classified in every race since Britain 2014).
No Mercedes-powered car on the front row for the first time since USA 2013.
First race since Belgium 2009 in which no British driver scored points.
And some more from magnetimarelli.com:
Last 5 Singapore poles: Vettel-Hamilton-Vettel-Hamilton-Vettel.
First time since the last 4 races of 2008 that Raikkonen has managed back-to-back top 3 starts.
First time Rosberg has started outside the top 4 since USA 2013. Only M Schumacher and Senna have managed longer streaks.
3rd year in a row that Maldonado has started 18th at Singapore.
Ricciardo’s 3 Fastest Laps this season have come at the 3 slowest circuits: Monaco, Hungaroring, Singapore.
Kim Philby (@philby)
23rd September 2015, 7:58
The last 3 times that a spectator entered the track and disrupted a gp (Germany 2000, Great Britain 2003, Singapore 2015) were all won by Ferrari.