Sebastian Vettel, Ferrari, Singapore, 2015

Ecclestone: Ferrari “frightened” of giving Red Bull engines

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In the round-up: Bernie Ecclestone says Ferrari president Sergio Marchionne is too “frightened” to give Red Bull competitive engines.

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Comment of the day

Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, Singapore, 2015
Mercedes: strong in the race but vulnerable in qualifying?
Lots of discussion yesterday about Mercedes and Ferrari’s performances in the last two races – and in qualifying:

Mercedes was struggling a bit already in Monza during qualifying. Vettel performed poorly in Q3 at Spa, but Bottas in third was 1.3s behind Hamilton. The next race in Monza Rosberg didn’t even make it on the front row and Hamilton had only three tenths on Raikkonen.

Since Monza Ferrari seems to have found something giving them a big improvement in Q3, but in race trim Hamilton was still a lot faster there. He could easily pull away when needed.

It seemed like in Singapore Hamilton was doing a lot better in race trim also. As he said himself he was easily keeping up with the front runners on super softs while he was running on softs. It seems likely that he would have been able to pick up a few places and perhaps even the lead using that strategic and speed advantage. Unfortunately we never got to see that.

So I don’t think it’s a one-off for Ferrari, but I think in race trim the Mercedes would still be faster. I’d expect Red Bull to fall a bit further behind in Japan though.

Mercedes only improved four tenths for Q3 in Singapore compared to 2014 where the races before (Hungary and Monza) they improved by seven tenths. So they probably didn’t seem to under-perform hugely, but they did lose some time in Singapore.
@Patrickl

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  • 88 comments on “Ecclestone: Ferrari “frightened” of giving Red Bull engines”

    1. So what Pirelli are saying is that several cars had the wrong pressures in Italy but only Mercedes was investigated, so.. One (negative) rule for Hamilton, another for everyone else?

      If I were Ferrari I wouldn’t be giving any engines to Red Bull, for the same reasons as Mercedes. They don’t need to money, they won’t want the competition, and most importantly, if something goes wrong they’ll end up being publicly bashed by red bull for the rest of the year.

      That Massa tweet did make me chuckle! :)

      1. @strontium At Monza on the grid, Pirelli and the FIA only checked the top 4 qualifiers. Probably at the pit-stop such tricks could have been employed by everyone. Anyway the only team that registered positive was Merc on the grid. If I was Ferrari I would give RBR engines, otherwise it would hollow Marchionne’s own words. Merc doesn’t do it because, it could make Daimler think twice and shut the Brackley team. Massa found an adult size toothbrush.

      2. ColdFly F1 - @coldfly (@)
        24th September 2015, 7:54

        Not everything in the sport is anti-Hamilton. @strontium
        It was those teams that had blow-outs in Belgium, and openly questioning if it was Pirelli’s fault. If I had to pick 2 teams for a random check, I would do exactly the same.

        PS – during the Monza GP TV coverage they showed a Mercedes mechanic testing the pressure of the spare tyres below the tyre warmers. It could be seen that the pressure gauge read 18.5 (vs 19.5 required). But that does not prove anything as we don’t know if that tyre was actually used; what the temperature was; or if the gauge was calibrated!
        If I can find the image of video then I will share a link.

        1. to pick 2 teams for a random check

          Hardly random eh? ;)

          1. In any random checks, they don’t roll dice and decide who to pick – think of it more as they know who they want to test and they can do at any time, seemingly from the teams perspective, at random.

          2. It may simply be that they decided to check the top four cars on the grid, which happened to be both Mercedes and both Ferraris. If you check the technical reports on the FIA website you will see that they did the same in Singapore, checked the top four, this time the two Ferraris and the two Red Bulls.

            Doc 43 Before/After the race

            On the grid the temperature and minimum tyre starting pressure of the RHS front and rear tyre was checked on car numbers 03, 26, 05 and 07.

          3. ColdFly F1 - @coldfly (@)
            26th September 2015, 10:15

            Hardly random eh? ;)

            Good one @xtwl. :D

            But then again, random could stand for ‘random time’ of the check, or maybe a ‘random check of 100% of the cars that had a blow out in Spa’ ;-)
            [Now we know how lawyers can drag out any case, and plead innocent even for the biggest criminals]

    2. It’s not only Red Bull now, Ecclestone is also pressuring Ferrari to give their works engine to Red Bull.

      1. Bernie is just trying to save the empire. If Red Bull would leave because no manufacturer wants to compete with an independent constructor why would an independent want to enter F1 in the future and with Honda as a newcomer strugling to finish a race how would any manufacturer be interested going through that same hell and I am not even talking about sponsors walking away or viewer decline.

          1. -1 without explanation is weird.

            1. I don’t have to explain myself to you. Or anyone.

            2. Did I say that, where? I just thought this comment section is for discussion, and someone who posts a “-1” has an argument to bring up.

            3. ColdFly F1 - @coldfly (@)
              24th September 2015, 7:58

              I don’t have to explain myself to you. Or anyone.

              No you don’t have to! But it would make your contribution more meaningful. Who knows, it might be immensely insightful.
              Otherwise why even bother and reply?

            4. Explanation is the new math.
              Bernie can said anything that does not make sense but true.
              #CommonCore

        1. No Bernie is soooo keen having Red Bull because they are very willing in helping him in his divine and conquer plans. Even more than Ferrari is.

      2. That was never in doubt. Red Bull leaving would be another nail in the coffin for F1. There is no way Bernie is ever going to let this happen so he’ll start mouthing off now.

        I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again – F1 will continue to race at Monza for years to come and Red Bull will be on the grid with either a Merc or Ferrari engine for 2016.

        Anything else you hear in the meantime from Ferrari, Red Bull, Bernie or Monza is just unprofessionally conducted negotiations.

    3. Renault still has 12tokens. Are they obligated to use them this year or can they add them to next years tokens?
      I dont know, maybe Redbull should have been a bit patient?

      1. @mim5 If I remember correctly, if they don’t use them this year, they cannot use them next year. Next year there’s also a fixed about of tokens for all engines.

        1. @fer-no65 whats their plan? use all tokens and introduce the upgraded engine during the last race? I guess if they want to be competitive next year they need to use them.

          1. The next update will be available in Austin but unless a current spec breaks down I doubt Red Bull or Toro Rosso will use them.

            1. ColdFly F1 - @coldfly (@)
              24th September 2015, 8:03

              As they will not race with TR or RBR next year, they no longer need to focus on this year’s performance.
              Wisdom is to maximise development for next year and use the 12 tokens for that (even if it it deteriorates the current PU). They should then use the 12 tokens in Abu Dhabi, even if it is only for one FP session (and hope TR or RBR play with them).

      2. They will have a new spec power unit for the USGP but i’m unsure if they will have used any tokens for the upgrade.

        Given the situation there in i’m amazed they haven’t used any yet as Ferrari & Mercedes have already shown the sort of improvement that can be found even with the token restrictions.
        Honda have used most of there’s & have found gains in the engine, Its just the Hybrid systems thats letting them down now as there not harvesting enough energy & are therefore losing the 160bhp+ from the hybrid systems part way down the straights.

        1. maybe renault decided not to be supportive of redbulls cause once horner and co. went crazy at the beginning of the season, not supporting them as they tried to sort out reliability

        2. Perhaps Red Bull have already given notice of their intention to terminate their contract so Renault do not want to reveal their direction (rather like Mercedes with McLaren last year).

      3. Using the tokens still requires a lot of money to be spent to design the upgrades. Now that Red Bull have cancelled their contract, I doubt Renault are bothered and are probably 100% focusses on the 2016 PU. I’d be surprised if they offer any sort of upgrade to Red Bull or Toro Rosso for the remainder of the season.

    4. it’s an obvious concern, but he’s frightened he’s going to upset his team.

      The same way Mateschitz would be frightened if Ferrari will get that Red Bull chassis. Bernie has been so talkative about Red Bull because his friend Mateschitz is still loading his pocket with money so he is trying to put the pressure on Ferrari for losing 2 teams at the end of the year. I just hope that Ferrari won’t supply RBR even with customer engines so this team would disappear forever from F1.
      I still cannot believe how arrogant these people are (Mateschitz, Marko and Horner), they talk like they have a god given right to compete unfairly with the competition. Ferrari have the right to sell their engines to any team and imply the terms that they want, they don’t own RBR anything nor F1 does, and as for the matter of F1 losing 2 more teams it’s not down to the fact that Ferrari won’t sell RBR their engines but it is down to the greedy management style set by BE which transformed F1 to a VIP sport otherwise the grid would have been full of cars like it was before.

      1. True….many would rather see three-car teams and/or customer cars next year rather than a RedBull Ferrari. Probably, even Williams!

      2. The engine disparity in f1 now is a huge issue. Not only does merc has insane benefit because their engine combo is so much better than anything else but also because of fuel and lubrication benefits that the factory merc team has you could even have the exact same engine as merc factory team but your engine would still make less power simply because you don’t get the special fuel and oils as the factory team.

        While rbr is going the wrong way with how childishly they have handled this at the same time their frustration and agony is real. And if no one is willing to sell a competitive engine for them (ferrari or merc) they (and us) know rbr just can’t compete for championship. There is no chance period. The reason the renault engine sucks is not their own fault at all but because of that engine the team has completely lost its chance to compete in the last 2 seasons. In addition to that they are losing prize money as well. This has increased their costs sky high while their performance has dropped considerably. It is catastrophe to championship winning team.

        Some people see the rbr situation as childish tantrum of being denied “god given right to top performing engines”. I see sheer desperation and complete frustration. Nobody wants to sell engine to rbr because rbr would finish higher with the same engine. Merc has easy championships coming and they don’t want to risk it. Ferrari doesn’t need the money and they value their 2nd place as well. Honda and renault have failed with their engines so far. From rbr perspective their situation is bad and only getting even worse. Their f1 team atm. is just a huge money sink and the future looks even more expensive. Quitting now instead of competing with one arm behind your back is more than just a tantrum. It might be the only sensible option rbr has anymore.

        It would be sad to see rbr go. I seriously doubt ferrari can fight mercedes for the championship. And no one else has no chance at all. Rbr could do it but nobody is willing to sell them an engine. It would be better for f1 if rbr had a competitive engine. It might not be that good for mercedes or ferrari though. Kind of sad how people are not willing to see the real issues but instead focus on rbr being childish.

        1. @socksolid, I am not sure where you are getting the story that only Mercedes has access to special fuel mixtures, because their customer teams have dismissed that story. The only team which should be receiving a different fuel mixture should be Williams, but that is because of their sponsorship deal with Petrobras – part of that agreement was the fact that Petrobras would be the main fuel and lubricant supplier for Williams.

          1. Williams is still using Petronas though anon

      3. @tifoso1989 Agreed. The idea that Ferrari or Mercedes are morally obliged to sell engines to their direct rivals is even more radical than budget caps or standardised chassis as it is an 180° turn in the perception of F1. Namely, it implies that F1 is not about competition and that making your rivals stronger is the right thing to do. If you try to retain a competitive advantage, then you are a chicken.

        Bernie Ecclestone should assume responsibility for this situation and resign if RBR & STR indeed pull out of the sport. F1 does not lack popularity or money and the world is full of engine manufacturers. If no one wants to build engines for one of F1’s richest & strongest teams, then there is something wrong with the way the sport is run. Of course, Red Bull should blame themselves as well.

        1. “Namely, it implies that F1 is not about competition and that making your rivals stronger is the right thing to do.”
          Mercedes did it already, they helped Ferrari to develop competitive PU. I think, Ferrari giving RBR their power unit is their best chance of powering a car to win constructors championship ;-)
          Ok, they won’t get all the credit but…

          1. You hit on a possible solution. Have an engine builder/supplier championship with a large payout. That might motivate Mercedes and Ferrari to supply engines to a top team like RBR to maximize their builder points.

          2. @boomerang Hang on a minute! Did I miss something? When did Mercedes help Ferrari develop a competitive PU?

            1. Well, that is another reason why I would not miss RBR too much. There are enough conspiracy theories invented by fans and media, we don’t need more fairytales from the teams themselves.

        2. @girts You have suggested, as have others on this and other thread, that on-one wants to supply engines to RBR. That is simply untrue. RBR had a valid works contract but decided they didn’t want that one and had a right to demand a supply from a team of their choosing and now they are trying to dictate the terms. If RBR end up without an engine the fault does not lie with Renault, Mercedes, Ferrari or even Bernie – it lies squarely with the management of RBR.

    5. Wow Keith interesting COTD choice.

      Forgive me for thinking Vettel was only looking after his tyres early on in his 2nd stint to cover Ricciardo, and sped up by over 2 seconds per lap right at the time Hamilton had his engine issue. Thankfully the COTD let us all know that this was apparently actually Hamilton keeping up on the slower tyre in race trim (not Vettel backing up the pack by driving slowly)?????

      I know its a British site, but please, reality check.

      1. COTD is not site policy, it highlights a talking point, and we are talking about it regardless of the fact that it is pure wishful thinking.

      2. personalty i got the impression Vettel was backing up Riccardo so Kimi could have a chance to pass him,
        when they saw this as impossible Vettel added the extra space again..

      3. its [sic] a British site

        No it isn’t – this is a site for F1 fans, regardless of their nationality.

        As has been pointed out countless times before, only around a third of users on the site are British:

        http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/groups/f1/forum/topic/where-f1-fanatic-readers-are-from/?topic_page=5&num=15#post-72133

        The idea someone might find a nationalism angle in that Comment of the Day never occurred to me, though you can never rule it out on any subject because some people seem to be obsessed with it.

        1. @keithcollantine I think you should start ignoring such comments from now on. It has been well known fact to all the regular readers of this site that you dont put bias just because you and your site represent a certain nationality.

          People will always find fault in something or other. The best reply to them would be simply to ignore their comments. Why waste so much time when someone or another is going to pop up the question of nationality bias even after you repeatedly tell them its not the case.

    6. Red Bull haven’t played it smart at all. Back at the beginning of the season when they were struggling to beat Torro Rosso and Newey was meant to have taken a back seat role, that was the team Mercedes and Ferrari may have been happy to give engines to.

      But they’ve show their hand at Hungary and Singapore with a very strong chassis only lacking in power and Newey seems to be much more involved than previously expected. They’ve shown their hand and the other manufacturers have thought better of giving possibly the strongest chassis a front running engine.

      Red Bull are going to have to take their tier 2 engines and work on their own solution for the long term future.

      1. It’s not only the chassis, RedBull has also proven that they are extremely difficult to work with. So, at the end of the day who needs that? Let them build there own engine, if they think it is so easy to criticize and complain.

    7. Re: Quote of the day:

      It seemed like in Singapore Hamilton was doing a lot better in race trim also. As he said himself he was easily keeping up with the front runners on super softs while he was running on softs. It seems likely that he would have been able to pick up a few places and perhaps even the lead using that strategic and speed advantage.

      Incredibly optimistic on Hamilton’s part. Vettel was purposefully backing everyone up for the first laps after SC went in (like Hamilton has never done this himself?). I’m not sure where Hamilton goes from a comment like “Vettel’s backing up Ricciardo I think” to thinking “my pace on the softs is the same as his on the SS.” Especially considering how far back he was on his first stint compared to Ricciardo and Vettel. While Hamilton may not yield the fact that it wasn’t going to happen, objectively, without SCs, it wasn’t going to happen for him.

      The one other thing that isn’t being mentioned about the SCs is that Kyvat was the one driver really compromised by the timing of both SCs. He pitted the lap before each. Without the SC he probably would have gotten the jump on Kimi.

      1. Agreed on both Hamilton and Kvyat.

    8. Now Bernie has a real problem, all FOM contracts stipulate a minimum of 16 cars competing, so even with Haas coming in, if RBR and STR go, what happens if the Lotus/Renault deal goes wrong and or Manor, Sauber or another team go broke, not unlikely, on top of that what if Honda decide they are losing face and pull the plug, suddenly there are only 12-14 cars on the grid and FOM is in default.

      This problem, like most in F1 is due to pushme-pullyou regulations where regulation A has a contrary effect to regulation B eg. DRS is meant to cancel out the effect turbulence has on a following car but HiDeg tyres make the turbulence effect much,much worse. Same with the Hybrid engine regulations designed to get automakers to spend a chunk of their $multi-million per day R and D budgets on designing, developing and testing (racing) high power/efficiency engines, technology that they can use in future road cars, but at the same time they FIA/FOM continue the failed ban on development they instituted to keep small independent engine makers in F1. The result, only big automakers can afford the investment to design and build a F1 PU but they are forbidden to do the development necessary to be competitive or to benefit their core business, on top of that, instead of showcasing their technical prowess they are more likely to appear incompetent.

      1. Should the grid drop to 16 or less its in the commercial arrangement with the teams that some of them (Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren & Mercedes) will be obligated to run a 3rd car, Something only Ferrari actually wants to do.

      2. We can only hope that the fan’s and the sport will be that lucky!

    9. Michelin have given a lot of details of what sort of tyres they will use should they win the next tender.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34313145

      I like a lot of what they want to do, Just a shame that with Bernie almost certain to decide who gets the tender based purely on the commercial & show side of things its highly doubtful we will get to see Michelin given a chance.

    10. PS, Audi coming into F1 now is less likely than Renault launching a hostile bid for VAG.

      1. With a German state and Porsche clan holding crucial shares a hostile takeover is not going to happen @hohum

    11. Well, if I was Ferrari, I’d be scared of giving Red Bull engines. The way they have treated Renault, who says Horner won’t turn around on “us” and discredit our product if it is not to his liking.

      What goes around, comes around.

      1. He already started threatening Ferrari. So…. Of course they are gonna bad mount the PU.

    12. Great article on the Ferrari tweak and Vettel’s domination. With Kimi’s front-end preference dialed in and now Vettel’s diffuser preference (which has been a Ferrari weakness for years) along with the re-definition of tyre pressure parameters, the end of the season might get interesting after-all. My early season prediction that Hamilton would have it sewn up by Monza is looking tenuous. Which would be a-okay because if Ferrari could make that happen what an awesome way to end the last season of Formula 1 as we have come to know it :-)

    13. I hope Ferrari wouldn’t be giving any engines to Red Bull. If they want a good engine, thay can make it, they have the money.

      1. Do you agree that Honda and Renault have the money? Or do you think they are purposefully screwing it up?

    14. If I were Ferrari I wouldn’t supply Red Bull unless I knew I couldn’t compete with Mercedes.
      But it all depends of one factor, would Ferrari be content to win as an engine supplier if they can’t win as a works team? Would they let another team overshadow them if it meant beating Mercedes?
      If they knew they can’t surpass Mercedes they’d probably supply Red Bull and at least have their engine winning. That’s a good result/marketing move. But as long as they have hope, they shouldn’t risk going from second in WCC to third.
      That’s my opinion., if RBR want to quit, let them go.

      And about Ferrari’s improved rear of the car, I don’t believe those little holes and fins would improve the downforce that much…. IMO it’s more the same media who said Vettel couldn’t do these type of races without a blown diffuser trying to find an explanation for his dominant performance in Singapore.
      But who knows… If Ferrari has really found something to make Seb go faster it’s good news and worth looking forward to in these final Grand Prix.

      1. @jon It would be ironic if next year the 4 engine brands closed up their performance and we had a great season with 3-4 teams capable of winning regularly, and then with their usual incompetence the powers that be will scrap it all for 2017 so it sounds better.

      2. In F1 history there has never been a team with Ferrari engines who has won 1 race up until Monza 2008, Sebastian Vettel. Them supplying PUs so others can win the championship sounds ridiculous. Could this happen? I dunno. But if that’s the case, they might as well pack up and go, make Red Bull the works Ferrari team. It sounds like that’s what Red Bull wants too.

        1. But what is the solution in your view. Why then have any customer teams in the first place?

          1. Customer teams’ existence has nothing to do with the topic. They can do whatever they want. So can Ferrari.

            1. Well I think it got everything to do with it (I mean engine customer teams of course). Yes, and so can RBR.

      3. A Ferrari engined car not a Ferrari has won exactly once, Toro Rosso in 2008. I think Ferrari knows it’s not going to happen again anytime soon.

    15. If Ferrari supplies engines to Redbull, it will promote Redbull and get demoted in the process. Redbull happy, Ferrari sad!

    16. Ferrari should definitely supply Red Bull with full works engines… in exchange for Adrian Newey, options on Ricciardo and Verstappen and a Fiat logo on every can of Red Bull.

      Oh, and with the understanding that the first time either Horner or Marko moans about something, they get busted down to whatever 2014 engines Manor didn’t get round to using this year. And Arrivabene gets to publicly slap whichever one of them did it around the face with a wet fish.

      1. Haha I’d support this motion.

        1. ColdFly F1 - @coldfly (@)
          24th September 2015, 8:11

          Deal! Let’s hand it to the lawyers to draw up the contracts and go for dinner.
          @neilosjames

      2. COTD!

        I cannot disagree with RB by demanding the best of the best for their money, isn’t that what we all want? If you don’t ask for it, you certainly won’t get it. And they know they are in a strong position to demand such things. I think Bernie doesn’t want to lose another 4 cars.

        Really really curious about the outcome of this…

        Is it just me or is the RB(/TR)-team most hated, but their drivers among the most beloved on the grid??

    17. I’m gonna take a chance and say VW will be billions in the red over the coming months. These emissions allegations are now only at the start and I’m sure even if they survive the company will want to lay low for a bit, depending on how it all plays out. This will be very interesting. But I’d say that’s it for Red Bulls 2018 plans..

    18. Now, this ends stories like: “Who’s got the best chassis?” I was surprised to see how Dan was able to cover Seb’s pace considering the power deficit. Truly amazing.

    19. Bernie, Y U only pick on Ferrari but not Mercedes?

      1. For all RBR critics, this:
        “It is understood that Ron Dennis, the team’s chairman, expressed fears earlier this month at Formula One’s Strategy Group that restrictions on engine development could threaten Honda’s place in the sport.”

        Is a thinly veiled threat that Honda leaves if Honda (McLaren) don’t get the rule changes they demand… ;)

      2. sorry Kingshard, wasn’t intended as answer to you…

        1. Kingshark!

          apologize again…

    20. Website http://www.lhamilton.pl is interesting, though it looks like it has only existed since 2014 so presumably only photo-shopped onto the background of that Twitter image to promote it?

    21. Bernie Ecclestone says Ferrari president Sergio Marchionne is too “frightened” to give Red Bull competitive engines.

      When I studied the videos of the onboard cameras carried by the cars, it seemed to me the Renault engine was more powerful than the Ferrari engine, and that the Renault engine wasn’t significantly less powerful than the Mercedes engine. Of course, Ferrari aren’t going to say their engine is less powerful than the Renault engine, and why should they?
      I think Red Bull are going to have to find their own F1 engines.

    22. I fail to understand the logic in people saying let the 2 Red Bull teams leave the sport. At the moment, it can’t be good for the sport. Years ago the sport could have suffered losing 4 cars from the grid, but the grid isn’t as big as it once was.

      Let’s say you own an F1 team. Your engine supplier is providing you with an inferior engine. There are no signs that they are willing to improve this engine and you’ve been in this scenerio for the 2 years now. You could very well have the best chassis on the grid, but you can’t compete because of your engine. You are there to win, not follow the leaders around. Something has to change.
      How long do you stay with this engine supplier then?
      What would you do?

      1. I feel the best way would have been to not go out with a bang, but a whisper; keep tones down and work on achieving results, like McLaren is doing with Honda, whose relationship looks to me severely hurt from how underpowered their car is. Then, if nothing works, announce the engine switch and begin talks with the other engine manufacturers.

        The bad PR is only damaging Red Bull and less so Renault, whose failure at the engine department was less prominent over the outcry and public stoning they suffered from Red Bull.

        tbh, I don’t want to see Red Bull go – I love me some Stewart/Jaguar and Minardi still and I don’t want them off the championship, because the grid would be too small. I’ve seen people claiming that three-car-teams would be better, but that would be dreadful in my eyes. More team orders, and less action between cars of the same manufacturer, much like it is between the two Mercedes and the two Ferrari cars this year.

    23. It never made any sense to me at all, but now I understand why Ferrari have been saying they would supply engines to RBR; Bernie has been pushing them behind the scenes. Now I guess Ferrari are getting nervous and reluctant, so Bernie has gone public to apply further pressure.

      I’m not fan of Ferrari but IMHO they should steer well clear of this. RBR should have supported their partners at Renault, but instead they turned on them, worse still, publicly. They have already said that they’d prefer Merc engines, implying a criticism of Ferrari engines before even using them. All Ferrari will get form this is grief. Either beaten by RBR or criticised if RBR don’t beat them.

      As I say, I don’t like Ferrari one little bit. I don’t like RBR either. But, I’m not happy to see Bernie push around a great historic team like Ferrari to favor a jumped up entitled outfit like RBR. Its plain wrong. Its disrespectful.

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