Carlos Sainz Jnr says the impasse over Red Bull’s engine supply deals is delaying work on their 2016 cars.
Red Bull and Toro Rosso are set to sever their contracts with Renault but neither have yet agreed terms with another manufacturer.
“I’m not really taking care of that matter much,” said Sainz in today’s FIA press conference. “We’re here to drive and our job is to extract the maximum performance of our car.”
“I just know that the team obviously is working hard, now more than ever, to find something for next year. Obviously it starts to be a bit late and we need to design the rear part of the car. When you don’t have something at the rear yet at this stage of the year it’s a bit tricky.”
Red Bull has demanded a competitive engine package for next season and Sainz believes their history in the sport justify it.
“I have full trust that they will come to a solution, an agreement,” he said. “I think more than anyone Red Bull deserves, they have done a lot for this sport, a lot for Formula One, and they will end up having a decent engine or a decent package for next year.”
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18 comments on “Red Bull engine impasse delaying 2016 car design – Sainz”
8th October 2015, 14:41
Well Red Bull have a budget the equal of Merc and Ferrari and it’s just for the chassis as they do not build engines, they should accept 2015 spec engines knuckle down for 3 years and build their own engine instead of expecting rivals to spend hundreds of millions a year on an engine to give to Red Bull for 15 million a year and get no advantage from it, what’s the incentive to build engines if you get no advantage, Ferrari and Merc are not charities.
If teams do not like what they are given they can pool budget together to build a customer engine that is equal to all of them and would be a rival to Merc and Ferrari, Cosworth can do this if the half teams pay them.
8th October 2015, 15:17
I agree with you. Also, if Ferrari or Mercedes had known before 2014 that they would need to supply Red Bull with engines, they would surely have invested more in aerodynamics and less in engines. I am afraid that “we have the best (and most expensive) chassis so we also deserve a great engine” approach is not going to work here, it is your responsibility to ensure that you have a competitive engine and you are not entitled to anything.
8th October 2015, 15:31
Though in some ways @girsts, Ferrari did already put focus on aero instead of on engine power in 2014, which is why their engine was so far behind. They reversed that for this year and next (together with renewed spending on aero). Mercedes did invest a lot in the whole package, an engine and chassis for the new rules – so far they haven’t been really outdone in aero by Red Bull, though perhaps it is getting there now Red Bull have their chassis sorted again after a bad start to 2015.
I do think it would have been good to have had fixed max prices for the PU packages from 2014 onward. And perhaps then Mercedes would have put a bit less effort into the engine and been less far ahead then; I’ll blame the FIA.
But it is now a bit late with that, and Red Bull don’t really seem like a customer any manufacturer really would want, certainly not for a low fixed price (ie. they’d have to pay enough to offset the potential negative publicity, say, help fund future upkeep of engine R&D for a a few 10 millions a year – they are a high maintenance customer with special wishes ;)
9th October 2015, 13:17
Its the bonkers system we have of expecting works teams to be engine suppliers to the other teams…. they will never be a supplier to a team if it is to their own works team’s disadvantage. Therefore to compete for the championship you have to be an integrated works team/engine supplier – preferably disadvantaging your opponents in the process with your engine supply contracts.
It makes F1 into chassis/engine works teams versus the rest.
And there are just not enough of them around.
Gone are the days of the independent engine suppliers we’ve had in the past – eg Cosworth, Ilmor, Porsche, BMW
8th October 2015, 15:31
I’d say they have done a lot for themselves through F1 platform, and they have done a lot of BAD for F1. I can’t help but feel that it is the ultimate twist of irony, that these limitations on engine development, which are Red Bull’s biggest problem, are in place to protect teams with smaller budgets, who are in danger because 5 years ago Red Bull backstabbed other FOTA members and sided with Bernie in exchange for more cash for them, and less for other teams.
8th October 2015, 20:30
Agreed, but also the way they are keen to blame others for shortcomings while when things go smoothly they only pat themselves on the back. In fact even through the 4 championship years they were deriding Renault for their “poor engines”.
Of course it was just a case of “political spin” to try and get some extra performance enhancements on the engines when RBR knew full well that the driveability and higher fuel economy of the Renault engine more than made up for the lack of a few horse power compared to the others. Nonetheless, Renault only got negativity even throughout the golden years.
I can’t imagine how any company would feel it’s a good idea to partner with a team headed by people like Horner and Marko.
8th October 2015, 16:23
The teams have like 4 months until the first tests to develop their 2016 car.
Brawn had like weeks before the first race of the season back in 2009, not knowing which engine they had to fit into their car, if any.
These are two extremely opposite examples, it’s obvious that uncertainty about the engine supplier might hurt the development, but also teams with Red Bulls and Toro Rossos experience won’t find it difficult to adapt to an another engine in no time.
I also absolutely agree with your comments above, everyone is free to arrange contracts as they want. If both parties want the same thing, they will close the deal. If any of them does not, you cannot really blame them or force them to do so. Simple as that.
8th October 2015, 16:23
Well having done more to the sport than Red Bull doesn’t help McLaren, Williams, Renault, and Ferrari having slump years, and no doubt Mercedes will too in the future. It’s just the nature of the sport that you can’t always be on top. Just because you win WDC and WCC 4 years in a row means you will the champions forever. So no, Red Bull doesn’t deserves it.
If Red Bull public figure (a.k.a. Christian Horner and Helmut Marko) doesn’t whining and shift all the blame to Renault, they probably have much easier time getting a deal with Mercedes or Ferrari. Despite few people think Mercedes and Ferrari are afraid of being beaten by Red Bull with their engines, the reality is not that simple. Getting either one of them doesn’t mean they will instantly switch to using Petronas or Shell fuel for instance. Or having full rear-end package. At this point whoever supply them with current engine facing lose-lose situation; if they lose, there is the shame of the main team losing to customer team. If they win, seems like Red Bull will blame them anyway with whatever excuse of why RBR doesn’t win.
8th October 2015, 16:47
Red Bull have no option but to take 2015 Ferrari engines if that is all they are offered and they should take it. Know one is forcing them out by point blank telling them they cannot have any engines, the problem is they want exactly the same fuel, software as the works teams which know one gets for 15 million a year when the works teams spend a lot more on their engines than they get from their customers, so should have an advantage. They need to take the 2015 Ferrari engines and work over the next few years on a solution. I do not see McLaren throwing Honda out then demanding equal spec Ferrari or Merc engines with the same fuel and software or they will quit. If customer teams want the exact spec as the factory teams they should all share the engine costs equally so that will be maybe 50 million a year if you take into account the start up costs and yearly development up to this point, maybe more. For 15 million a year you cannot expect the same or I should demand a new Ferrari for the price of a Ford Focus.
9th October 2015, 10:20
Or they can quit, getting a Cosworth, rebadging any other engine as Infiniti, or lick their own spit and get back with Renault. The only thing that makes this a big drama is because they publicly trashed Renault, which although don’t produce an engine comparable to Mercedes and Ferrari, still doesn’t deserve that much public shaming. As bad as whatever they want people to think about Renault, they still sitting comfortably 4th at WDC and can fight for top spot after Mercedes and Ferrari works team.
8th October 2015, 16:54
Why would anyone tear up a contract with a supplier without having at least some sort of tentative agreement with another supplier?
This is extraordinary!!
8th October 2015, 17:07
If your (secret) objective is to find a reason to get out of F1, this may be a good tactic.
I sincerely hope that this is not their objective. And I sincerly hope they’re not Power Playing to get things going their way.
8th October 2015, 20:39
This might be a clever ploy from Toto Wolff. Initially he said:
Although he added that in his own opinion it wouldn’t be a good idea, but at the time it was taken as a statement that it might happen because the board wanted it.
Then when the Renault contract was cancelled, Wolff suddenly said that it wasn’t in their interest to sell their engines to RBR and that was that.
8th October 2015, 22:51
If you base your business decisions on vague statements like that quote from Wolff, you’re outright stupid and shouldn’t have nothing to do making important decisions in the first place.
8th October 2015, 19:45
Apparently the majority of people on F1Fanatic think it’s a good thing that Ferrari will have 3 classes of engine:
1. Works – Ferrari
2. Customer – Sauber & Haas
3. Year old (Crippled Customer) – RBR & STR
What happens if Sauber come up with a great chassis next year and start beating Ferrari? Should Ferrari only offer them the year old engine when the contract is up for renewal?
9th October 2015, 13:19
Maybe – why would Ferrari renew a contract to their own works team disadvantage ?
joe jopling (@jop452)
8th October 2015, 21:33
The Ferrari engine of last year….lets call it Mk1…and now used in Manor….the newer engine this year that started the season(Mk2) and won….followed by the Mk3 just recently introduced..and possibly a Mk4 for next season…Red Bull say they will not get the best Ferrari spec engine, so can anyone tell me which exact spec they intend to let Red Bull have……
9th October 2015, 13:01
As far as i understand it, it would be the engine that is in the works Ferrari at Abu Dhabi this year. that would in my opinion be the full spec 2015 unit. This is a bit messed up by the fact the token allocation could be used during the season this year, creating multiple spec 2015 engines.
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