Daniel Ricciardo, Sebastian Vettel, Hungaroring, 2015

Vettel doubts Red Bull will carry out quit threat

F1 Fanatic Round-up

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In the round-up: Sebastian Vettel suspects Red Bull will remain in F1 in 2016.

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Praise for Peter Sauber’s talent-spotting eye:

Despite being and having mostly ever been a midfield team, the talent they can boast is amazing. Massa, Raikkonen, Herbert, Frentzen, and even the others which didn’t make it still stood out in contrast to rival teams’ drivers.

I hope Sauber reach 400 more races, but when I think of them I always think of Peter Sauber hiring Raikkonen and Massa in two consecutive years, 2001 and 2002, a pair which teamed-up at Ferrari only five years later to win the constructors’ championship.
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  • 35 comments on “Vettel doubts Red Bull will carry out quit threat”

    1. Sauber really is incredible, the ability to even attempt to sign three drivers for two cars is just amazing!

      1. Wasn’t it four? Aside from Vandergarde, Ericsson and Nasr, Sutil also thought he had the seat. I also read that Gutierrez also thought he would be driving! Furthermore, Sirotkin was also promised a drive for 2015, if I recall correctly.

        1. Just checked it again, and Sirotkin was supposed to drive in 2014, and de Silvestro was supposed to drive in 2015.

        2. And Barichello was going to return too!

        3. Sauber: Hire ALL the drivers! :D

      2. Perhaps even more incredible than that is Sauber’s ability to suck every drop of blood and money from their signed drivers, cast them aside, and then turn around and play the victim like nothing happened. Sociopaths are fascinating.

        Being serious though, as recently as 2012 Sauber was an amazing little team. It would be nice to see that level of competition from the midfield again.

        1. ColdFly F1 (@)
          17th October 2015, 9:43

          I’d like to see Sauber back as an ‘amazing little team’ as well. @bforth
          And as much as I like women to be successful in F1 (Claire is doing a great job) I don’t think success will come whilst Monisha is running Sauber.

          1. @coldfly I agree, I think the team has just gone down hill since she took over.

            I love the team itself (and would love for it to do well again), but I cannot support it when its management is a complete disgrace.

          2. There is a quote on various F1 related websites quoting Blick newspaper quoting Peter Sauber as saying

            Without Monisha Kaltenborn there would be no Sauber.

            I think if Peter Sauber says it, then it is true.
            I wasn’t able to find the Blick quote myself, it may have been in German, but here is a link to an article on Grand Prix Times website saying it:
            http://www.grandprixtimes.com/news/display/10012

      3. If anything, Sauber WAS incredible. To be honest if signing Massa and Raikkonen is the thing that makes them so great then I’d have to wonder if they ever really were that “incredible”. Raikkonen would have found a seat in F1 anyway.

        They always struck me a s a boring bunch with no intention of actually competing. They seem content to just hang around at the back of the midfield.

        Force India at least showed some desire to move forward. They take steps to improve themselves to at least get at the front of the midfield. For instance through their alliance with McLaren a few years back and now their wind tunnel upgrades. At least they try to catch up to Williams.

    2. Seb does well to not say anything negative about other people in that interview, and the interviewer sounds like he’s trying to get him to do so.
      As a Ferrari fan I’m obviously biased, but he really has become a lot more likeable this season.

      I’m not so happy to see super heated brakes though, it just looks like another expensive bit of kit that will end up having its advantage cancelled out when the other teams make their own. It’s an interesting idea, but I’d rather see the teams given tyres that were easier to get, and keep, within operating parameters.

      1. @beneboy, What expensive bit of kit? It’s just a heatgun + some insulation wrapped around the wheelhub.

        I do agree with your other points though. Smart choise by Vettel not to speak about the Alonso-era. I also like how he plainly admits in interviews that he didn’t perform at his best and was beaten fair and square last season.

      2. Must admit @beneboy I love the hot brakes trick. It’s just so F1, with the unexpectedness and cleverness.

        I love the tyres too, that gave us Singapore let’s not forget (it was unlucky Lewis’ car failed), and can be overwhelmed by the torque. It can be too easy to see the challenges set for the teams as problems in the sport.

        I agree about Vettel, I’m finding him more and more likeable these days.

        1. @lockup
          It’s not that I don’t like the idea, I just don’t like the fact that it will lead to all of the teams having to use more equipment and energy preparing the cars, and spending a load of money trying to improve the system at a time when most of them need to find ways to reduce spending.
          To be honest I wasn’t that excited by what happened in Singapore, getting a different winner is meaningless to me unless it’s accompanied with some on track action, or is the result of a team making an improvement to their cars. We didn’t see either in Singapore, Mercedes dominance was just replaced with Ferrari dominance because of the strange way the current tyres perform.
          I’d much rather see tyres that alow all of the teams to get the best out of their cars, be it outright power, a superior chassis, or the ability to protect the tyres and therefore make fewer pit stops than the others.

          1. Yeah I see what you mean @beneboy, I suppose it’s a question of where to draw the line. Merc have more money than most of the others, so they’re going to spend it somewhere and that inventive little trick appealed to me. And it’s a trick that probably didn’t depend on a lot of money to come up with, I suspect.

            With Singapore I was meaning IF Lewis had been able to keep going, really. Hard to know but it was down to the tyres that there even might have been a showdown between a Merc and a Ferrari.

            I’m a bit nervous that the new wider grippier tyres are going to spoil things, given that half the idea of the current formula was to have more torque available that the tyres can handle on corner exits, and we do see quite a lot of action because of that.

        2. Vettel is the same as he’s ever been; the difference is that he’s not the perpetrator of some “boring domination” with an “unlikeable” team.

          1. Fully agree, plus he hasn’t a team mate which he can’t get along anymore (of course that was also true for Ric in 2014).

            However still better people are coming around now than never. ;)

    3. What use are tyres that are 3 seconds a lap faster if the drivers have to drive 3 seconds a lap slower to ensure they don’t overheat & fall off the cliff within a few laps?

      Pirelli may well have been asked to ensure 2-3 pit stops & I don’t blame them for that but I do blame them for using the thermal degredation model to achieve that mandate. We had tyres in the past that suffered wear & required changing but that didn’t suffer from this thermal degredation & therefore allowed drivers to push the tyres hard & this is what we need to go back to & if Pirelli are unable to achieve that then they should step aside & let somebody else have a go.

      If drivers can push harder, drive closer to the limits then we will see the possibility of more mistakes & will see the drivers pushed harder mentally & physically & this will all make for a far better sporting spectacle.

      1. Strangely, yesterday I wrote a comment in defence of the current engines power, saying that it is wrong to quote better lap-times from the past as proof that these engines are gutless, because the cars were lighter, were carrying less fuel and had better tyres. For some reason that comment just disappeared later in the day but today Hembrey admits that Pirelli could make faster tyres right now if asked to.

        1. @hohum, it is a shame if that is the case, because I do agree that the comparison with previous years in an attempt to make the current engine package look like it is less powerful is indeed asinine if you do not take into account the increase in the minimum weight requirements and the change from refuelling to non refuelling.

          All the available evidence points the other way – that the current engine package has a higher peak power output than the old engine package, not a lower output, with a substantially broader usable power curve to boot (which is why, if anything, drivers tended to describe the V8 engines as gutless).

        2. It wouldn’t be the first reasonable comment to just ‘disappear’ from this site (and I bet this one will ‘disappear’ too)…

      2. I think that that is exactly the point Roger. Pirelli says it can make the tyres far better if asked to do so. Faster and not degrading as they currently do.

        And yes, I think most of us enjoyed seeing drivers able to push the car without the tyres forcing them to focus on not degrading them last race.

      3. I also believe thermal degradation is the key problem. I read recently they increased thermal deg in 2013 to go back to multiple stop races after one-stop ones in late 2012. In the first two years using Pirelli rubber, the fans and drivers were generally positive about the rubber even though it wasn’t that 100% flat-out racing seen in previous years, more so 90-95%. I believe after 2013 changes they had to manage their rubber all the time because the tyre was overheating so much (and sometimes blowing out).

        To underline my point, 2013 race at Catalunya was slower than 2012 one despite cars being much slower (1.5s at least if you take DRS rules into account) and it was the same for many other rounds.

    4. As Mercedes is going to be the engine supplier of Marussia, one of those cars might just be the place for Wehrlein in his rookie year?

      1. You’d expect so wouldn’t you, that is if the stupid F1 Super licence points thing doesn’t get in the way. To be fair I haven’t done any calculations but I’d think it’s not looking great for him. Which is daft.

        1. @unicron2002 correct you are mate. In the past 3 years, he’s only done DTM. His 3 Championship results (in order of year from 2013 to 2015) he was 22nd and last, 8th and 1st (he hasn’t won yet but it looks great in his favour). Those results will only get him 16 points, less than half of what’s required.

          But I’m not sure if this will affect him as it’s from 2016 onwards it comes into effect. So I’m not sure it applies to drivers debuting in 2016 or drivers who aren’t in F1 by 2016. And I think he already has a superlicence anyway doesn’t he?

        2. @unicron2002, Wehrlein already has a super license. Drivers get to keep their super license for 3 years even if they don’t score points. This was rule was added so test/reserve/development drivers like Susie Wolff and Wehrlein don’t get forced to do some sort of other racing while they are being employed by F1 teams yet don’t actually race in F1.

      2. @andrewt I hope so. He’s come from the same kind of path as Paul di Resta has through his racing career. But, unlike di Resta, Wehrlein (if he makes his F1 debut next season) will not only be much younger than di Resta when he made his debut, but also a lot more promising and exciting. While he’s quick and consistent, he’s also aggressive, when he needs to be that is.

        And if he wins the DTM title this weekend, he will do it quicker than what di Resta did (di Resta won in his 4th season of DTM, this is Wehrlein’s 3rd season).

    5. ColdFly F1 (@)
      17th October 2015, 9:57

      The extra heat transferred through the rim could also temporarily lift the pressures when the tyres are first fitted, to help them get above the limits when checked by the FIA.
      Then, when the temperature drops away, the pressure can drop nearer an area that delivers the ultimate performance.

      This could be a great area to bend the rules (cheat) in the near future. The Stewards only test the outside temperature of the tyres and the pressure.
      As rubber has one of the lowest thermal conductivities it will take a long time when you heat the air from the inside (thus increase tyre temperature) for that heat to transfer to the outside of the tyre.

    6. So Mercedes are prepared to blissfully ignore the FIA superlicense points system in their campaign to put Wehrlein in an F1 car. Good on them. Ocon would be a great alternative if the FIA are not tempted by Mercedes’ bribes…

      1. Wehrlein has a super license already from before the points system.

    7. PS I haven’t bought a Pirelli since Silverstone 2013. I used to buy 4-8 a year. Good work….

      1. Lol, I once refused to put the OE Bridgestones on a Subaru because I disapproved of their role in F1 with the Max/Monte axis. Bad error.

        Roadgoing Pirellis won’t have anything in common with the F1 tyres, and anyway at Silverstone that day all the ones that went had been reversed; it was just an operational mistake for Pirellli to okay that. And a political issue to go with Bernie’s instruction to nobble Red Bull with a carcass that wouldn’t take their level of downforce.

        1. Roadgoing Pirellis won’t have anything in common with the F1 tyres

          There’ll be some technology shared, but you’re right to say basing your road tyre purchases off Pirelli’s F1 performance is a bad idea. And it’s good to finally find someone who remembers why the tyres kept failing at Silverstone; it seems too many fans are willing to forget inconvenient facts.

          1. That’s a reply to @lockup; not sure why it’s not displaying as such…

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