Valtteri Bottas, Williams, Interlagos, 2015

“I did nothing wrong”: Bottas critical of Brazil penalty

F1 Fanatic Round-up

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In the round-up: Valtteri Bottas doesn’t agree with his three-place penalty for the Brazilian Grand Prix.

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Interlagos used to be a long track, today it’s one of the shortest, but that’s not without its advantages:

33 thousandths of a second between them last year and 78 thousandths of a second this year. I really love qualifying on those short tracks!
Patrick (@Paeschli)

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Three years ago today questions were being asked of Lewis Hamilton’s impending move to Mercedes, who had failed to score a point in the four races which followed the news of Hamilton’s move:

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  • 82 comments on ““I did nothing wrong”: Bottas critical of Brazil penalty”

    1. So Renault spent 7 tokens this weekend to put a new ICE into Ricciardo’s car claiming for the engine to have a .1-.2 second gain per lap and it ends up being slower than the older spec Renault engine at the end of the day. WOW. And people wonder why Red Bull complained so much about Renault and tried to find a different engine manufacturer. If it wasn’t clear then it has to be now, Renault don’t know what the hell they’re doing.

      How in gods name can Kvyat be both faster in the speed traps and telemetry when he’s running a much higher downforce setup than Ricciardo and the old spec engine! This just blows my mind, what the hell are the engineers in Viry doing? Something has got to be wrong with their test beds, there’s no other explanation for how backwards they’ve gone this year. Absolutely pathetic work by Renault once again, they’ve been nothing but a disgrace this season.

      1. Makes you wonder what they’ve spent the tokens on doesn’t it?

        Quite possibly that they also won’t let them ramp it up to full powers to minimise the possibility of an embarrassing failure. Oh hang on they don’t seem to be at all embarrassed by their motor at all..

        And people still think RBR are the bad guys here?

        1. People just like to vilify Red Bull after their 4 championships, I’ve noticed it everywhere. They’re the average F1 fans scapegoat for any criticism put on the sport.

          And it’s obvious Renault have no idea what they’re doing, I can’t wait to see them come back next year and absolutely ruin what’s left of Lotus.

          1. People just like to vilify Renault after their 4 championships, I’ve noticed it everywhere.

      2. this has been my point for two years now. red bull have been completely exonerated from any criticism by this latest development.

        1. red bull have been completely exonerated from any criticism by this latest development.

          No they haven’t. They’ve still acted like spoiled children. For four years, and 8 championships, it was all about Red Bull, and Infiniti. Now that they’re not winning all the races, Renault is a terrible partner. If Ron Dennis, of all people, can remain diplomatic about the Honda engine in the McLaren, Red Bull has absolutely no excuse for slagging off Renault the way they have been (since 2010, when they were complaining that their engine didn’t have enough HP and that the V8’s had to be equalised or it would be the death of F1).

      3. @regeraf1, how do you know that Kvyat is the one running a higher downforce set up? I’ve not seen any public statements from either driver or from Red Bull that confirms that Kvyat is running a higher downforce set up, so do you have a source that confirms that is the case?

        Furthermore, there is actually a weird quirk around Interlagos that means that the speed trap data is now less reliable. The speed trap detector is located very close to the first turn and, as the drivers are hitting a higher top speed along the main straight, the speed detector is now on the edge of the braking zone for the first turn – in other words, the speed trap data you are referring to is now being influenced by how late the driver can brake before entering the turn.

        It is therefore entirely possible for Kvyat to have been slightly faster through the speed trap in those circumstances – what it means is that Kvyat was potentially hitting the brakes fractionally later than Ricciardo was.

        1. Kyvatt would have beaten Ricciardo by 0.5 seconds with the latest engine. The engine only appears slower as Ricciardo was using it.

        2. What’s the point of having a speed trap in the braking zone? I know they aim to measure the top speeds as accurately as possible, but due to the added uncertainty of drivers already braking for the next corner it’s a risk not worth taking. Speed trap figures between drivers should be comparable.

        3. Horner stated on SKY that Kvyat was running more downforce.

        4. Also, Red Bull factored in more than just the speed trap data to determine if the new engine is slower. They used all of the telemetry available to them after qualifying and the practice sessions. This isn’t Horners propaganda it’s straight from the engineers mouth.

          http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ricciardo-says-renault-engine-letdown-a-wake-up-call-for-2016/?utm_source=RSS&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=RSS-F1&utm_term=News&utm_content=www

      4. Did Renault really claim it would be a gain in lap times? I thought it was more a factor of taking a step geared towards next year?

        1. Remi Taffin said it would be about a .1-.2 second gain per lap.

        2. Yeh roughly .2 second gain.

          1. Didn’t Renault mention from the start of the year they would most likely hold off using any tokens until the end of the season, so they could make a big step forward by using all the tokens in one hit for a major change? So the expectation was they would have a bad year, but the sacrifice was the best plan? So what happened?

            This idea of relevant technology that would entice engine manufactures has totally backfired.

    2. So the terror attacks on Paris were done to detract from Jeans campaign, poor Jean we feel your pain. NOT.

    3. I don’t understand why people upset with Todt and FIA. Paris is a tragedy, and FIA already organized something to pay tribute to it (the armband and flag). The 1 minute silence for road victim is already planned ahead before and without any knowledge of the attack back then. So people now want them to cancel that for Paris attack instead? Does the life of road accident is worth less than the life of victim of the attack? As far as I’m concerned, showing a gesture that you acknowledge the attack is enough. It’s not like switching to 1, 3 or 60 min silence could either make the victim resurrected, guaranteed their souls to heaven, or make the terrorist repent and stop their terrors.

      1. 41 people dead in Beirut bomb-blast the day before and no one even bats an eye. But when it’s Paris, look out – all hell breaks loose. Wrong

        1. If you didn’t mention this, I wouldn’t even know. RIP to the victims.

        2. Maybe it comes across as wrong, but it’s how our minds appear to work. Most people seem to feel stronger emotions when the victims of any crime are those towards whom they feel some degree of closeness, kinship, similarity, whatever.

          If a family member is a victim, that’d likely draw the strongest response. Then friends, then neighbours perhaps, or people from the same city, and so on and on. It’s not like people make a conscious decision to feel that way, they just do.

        3. Alexandre Costa
          15th November 2015, 10:17

          You took the words out of my mouth. It sounds kinda hypocritical to blame FIA for that. Instead, I blame FIA for not doing the same about the Beirute events.

        4. @johanness

          There’s nothing nefarious or callous about people’s response to the Paris attacks in the West. It’s simple human psychology and there are several factors more than likely.

          1. Dog bites man is not news, man bites dog it is — it’s Paris. Totally unexpected. A bomb blast in Beirut? Seems more commonplace (not saying it is or isn’t), and it’s part of the turmoil in the Middle East.

          2. If it can happen in Paris, it can just a as easily happen here in London or New York.

          3. Similar to 2, the news plays up things that can send fear into the hearts and minds of it’s viewers. More ratings. Paris is in the news, it gets ratings. Other genuine tragedies aren’t in the news and if they are, less folks bother with them because it doesn’t affect them in the same way. It’s always strange why one set of circumstances get people’s interest, but not another.

          4. Empathy – human’s typically have more empathy for people they deem as being similar or the same as them. We are much more empathetic to situations our family gets into than a complete stranger. We suffer more when our favorite team or driver loses and don’t think twice about sports fans elsewhere whose favorite team/star loses. The further away someone or something is from our lives, the bigger the event has to be for us to generate the same level of interest.

          In the West, many people have an affinity for Paris and France. It’s in their backyard – the heart of Europe, the heart of the West. Some places and peoples are more abstract and farther away. It’s hard to feel the same level of “realness”.

        5. 148 students were killed in an attack on their university by Al Shabaab terrorists in Kenya. Not much of a hoo ha from the media. Just imagine what would happen if 148 students were killed in their university ANYWHERE in the western world?

      2. @sonicslv I agree.

        There’s tragedy every day, there are terrorist attacks everyday, so why is the Paris bombing so much more important when we are talking lives. Every life counts. 224 on a plane nope, 41 beirut bomb nope, the US rejoices after bombing Syria. Jean Todt’s reaction is not articulate but it’s not wrong either. What do people want, to mourn or trend on facebook and twitter? They are even going to force all drivers to sit on a car with the trendy facebook symbol, the french flag. No je suis Charlie on facebook. Although I’m sure if they are not xenophobe hypocrite they’ll sketch on like they did for the russian airbus.

        1. the US rejoices after bombing Syria.

          We did? Gosh, I must have missed that part. Dial back on the Eurocentric rhetoric a tad, please.

          1. Absolutely Wonderduck.

            Nobody is rejoicing at the death of ANY innocent human. At the taking of any innocent
            life. The passengers Russian Aircraft downed in Egypt, the Beirut bombing, the two attacks on Parisians, the passengers on the Malaysian airlines plane over Ukraine, the attack in Sydney, the beheading of innocent civilians simply because of their differences from their maniac killers. We weep for them all.

            There is a theory which states that, whereas more than a hundred years ago major tragedies
            usually took weeks to reach the eyes and ears of most humans, today we know all the worst
            news instantly, and that every day we learn of tragedy on such a scale that we become
            overloaded with terrible events. I suspect we have crossed that threshold already.

            But we still weep for France.

      3. I sure hope all drivers switched their facebook profile to the french flag thingy as it has been proven very effective against terrorism.

      4. I’m quite relieved that a lot of people on here have the same stance that I do.

        Somebody told me last night that a few days / weeks ago 2000 people were murdered in a swipe in Nigeria. I had no idea this occurred, as I’m sure many others still don’t.

        The sensationalist media / social media creates a lot more problems sometimes.

      5. I don’t understand why people upset with Todt and FIA.

        I think it was the whole “Did you know, the thing I have a vested interest in has a more significant number attached to it than the thing that happened yesterday that I have no vested interest in… TALK ABOUT MY THING PLEASE!”.

      6. I don’t usually comment, but I have to agree. If took into account every bombing, every terrorist attack, every murder, every act of injustice, we would be having more than 1min silence every day. thousands of innocent people are killed everyday in Palestine, Syria, Pakistan, yemen, Iraq, not a word in the media. as soon as something happens in france, or 1 person gets murdered in the uk (becky watts) media goes crazy, it’s the top headline everywhere, they follow the trial, etc etc etc.

        makes me so mad, that massacre’s go un-noticed if they’re in Africa or asia, but if some people get killed in the west it’s a big commotion, US president has to do a speech, etc

        i’m not saying the paris attacks were justified. not at all. who ever did it are sick creatures. I’m not saying isis are justified. again, not at all, they’re sick creatures and killing machines, people who don’t know what their own religion preaches, and condemns.

        All i’m saying is that these things happen every day and go un-noticed. Makes me so mad

        P.S i’m a muslim who knows the religion to a certain degree and condemns the acts of these sick creatures who claim to have knowledge of islam. They study the religion but don’t act upon it. The Islamic scholors have declared not to follow such creatures and have condemned their actions, and have warned against radicalised people who think they can go round killing innocent muslims and others in Syria and Iraq, and attack innocent people in paris

        rant over

        1. But as you say there is too much killing outside the western world and that is why in the end it gets kind of ignored. Because if you made a big deal about it you will be mourning and crying all day every day.
          It’s so common at those places that it becomes desensitized.
          That is why such reactions occurs when such attacks happen in places we consider relatively safe.

    4. There would have been no problem doing one-minute silence for both road car accidents and Paris attacks. It is especially sad that Todt is a Frenchman and making money from road safety is more important to him than his country.

      1. …making money from road safety

        Care to elaborate on that?

        1. Well, he gets a lot of money from all this road safety campaigning.

    5. I think Jean is, much like anybody else, entitled to have his views on how to react to what has happened in Paris. I understand he needs to be more sensitive about it (and not use it for selfish reasons), however just because he is in a high position does not mean that he should be required to take a specific stance on how to react. He is entitled to his opinion just like me and you.

      The FIA has done a fair amount to show support. They didn’t have to do anything, so let’s be glad for what they’ve done.

      1. As you say “He (Todt) is entitled to his opinion just like you and me“.

        1. Ah yes, apologies, 1am for me, can’t process things properly!

    6. On a lighter (and rather hilarious) note: #PlacesAlonsoWouldRatherBe

      1. @mtlracer ahaha that’s brilliant! This is my personal favourite!

      2. Had a really good laugh this morning. Twitter at its best, really.
        Having used Windows XP for quite some time I love this one: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT1-pi2WoAAbbDY.jpg

        1. @doublehelix Going of on a tangent, please stop using Windows XP! It’s reached end of life, is no longer receiving security updates, and leaves you vulnerable to an increasing number of methods of attack. A definitely don’t advertise the fact you use it on a public forum!
          /rantover

          1. @fluxsource, relax, I’ve deliberately used the past tense there because my using XP is… Well… In the past.
            I’m a software developer on fedora but had to boot countless XP virtual machines for software testing. That’s where I always saw that dreaded default desktop background (“green bliss”) and that’s why I love Alonso sitting there.

            1. @doublehelix Phew, pleased to hear it. Developer myself, so tend to get a bit evangelical about it!

          2. agreed, update to windows 10!

            i’m enjoying the November update, windows 10 is awesome

    7. It would be brilliant if Alex Wurz takes over at Manor. It could be seen as a passing of the baton from true racers like Lowdon and Booth to Wurz.

      Ive always admired Wurz for the way he has conducted himself on and off track. He has proven to be very level headed in his comments and a true professional, a great ambassador for motorsport in general. His position as the GPDA Chairman shows he remains a highly influential figure.

      With Manor ushering in a new era, getting the likes of Wurz on board to lead the charge is not only symbolic, but perhaps a prerequisite? It would be wrong to place much fault on Fitzpatrick for deciding to dispense with Booth and Lowdown, as they’ve probably brought the team as far forward as they can. With brighter prospects looming next year, perhaps it was a good decision to do away with the old? We’ve seen this happen at football clubs over the years (Alan Curbishley at Charlton comes to mind). Football club chairmen see this as prerequisites to take their clubs to the next level, sometimes it works, sometimes in doesnt.

      A couple weeks ago, I was disappointed when the news broke about the imminent changes at Manor as I was expecting some “businessy” type bean counter to be made team principal. In light of this news with Wurz being linked, I fully support it. I cant seem to think of a better person to take over the reigns to drive Manor ahead. There arent many drivers out there with Wurz’s experience and knowledge.

      ..Just hope that he manages to get out of his Consulting contract with Williams!

      1. Yes (@come-on-kubica)
        15th November 2015, 2:34

        Was he not at HRT for a stint?

      2. @jaymenon10
        According to austrian media, Alex already rejected the offer from Manor. He still has some obligations to fulfil (GPDA chairman, consultor at Williams, co-commentator for austrian TV, hosting of road-safety seminars in Austria).

    8. Am I going to be branded insensitive for agreeing with Todt?

      How many more lives would have been saved by a conscientious effort towards road safety rather than a superficial changing of facebook profile picture to support France?

      Loss of life is tragic. Changing you profile picture or stating your support against terrorism will do zero to affect what has happened. Being more careful on the road will literally save lives.

      Geopolitical politics has nothing to do with racing cars. But road safety does, and Todt can impact far more lives on that issue than on a complex issue or religion, politics and ethics.

      1. @philipgb I agree. He could have chosen his words ore carefully perhaps but unless everyone in the world who does not hold a minute silence somewhere today is going to be branded an aweful human being he did what he could…

      2. ColdFly F1 (@)
        15th November 2015, 9:40

        I would not brand you insensitive @philipgb, but I politely disagree.

        Firstly, I think that Todt has been wrong, and actually this whole Road Safety campaign is the biggest farce I’ve seen. Almost any campaign deserves the space and money more than the way the FIA filled in the Road Safety campaign.

        Secondly, the terrorist attack on Paris is important to many fans (F1 is still very Eurocentric). And the best way to fight terrorism for a single person is showing that you are not going to be terrorised; thus go out and ‘show your colours’ (e.g. French tricolore). This is a better response to terrorism than acting scared and shutting down normal live like what happened after 911.

      3. I’m with you on this @philipgb . If you’re going to have a minute’s silence then it needs to be something the people can relate to. I’m pretty sure there are substantially more people who had friends and family killed in road traffic accidents than killed in the Paris attacks in those stands in Brazil. Not to mention how offensive it would be to cancel a planned remembrance.

    9. about time Williams got a penalty of any sorts. Life’s tough and Williams certainly forgot where they come from. They are happy to be a top 5 team and that’s understandable. What’s not understandable is Williams defensively fleeing from the EU Force India prayer. U turn from Williams, it has it’s benefits.

      1. Translation, anyone?

        1. It’s ok @jules-winfield, most of his comments sounds like “blah blah whine whine” to me anyway

    10. Bernie. The only man on earth that can twist unfair payment structure complaint to attack engine cartel.
      :)

      1. Yeah, I thought that, too.

        Also, it was interesting to hear stuff from the sky F1 team, that he can use it to his advantage and wrestle some power back from the big teams. If the EU does force changes through, Bernie is likely to be the winner.

    11. Sorry Grosjean, but should the French flag really be “on top of the podium”?
      Brazil just had an enormous terror attack against the environment. Brazil is living through horrendous cases of corruption and criminality is again increasing. I do hope they put the Brazilian flag up high on the podium to show the world the mess that country is in now.

      If they really want to do something, then have a minute of silence for the victims. NOT for France, but for the victims.

      1. Well, he meant doing so by trying to get onto the podium himself @brunes. And yes, seesing Massa get on the podium (to have a Brazillian flag there) would give a nice moment too, for its own reasons.

    12. I don’t understand Ben Hunt’s tweet. What’s wrong with that photo?

      1. ColdFly F1 (@)
        15th November 2015, 9:45

        Maybe if your own photographs aren’t used, you fall back on criticising other’s? @dc

      2. The issue is that all of the pictures he pointed out look like they should have been discarded and replaced by a picture where there is not a hand, steering wheel etc blocking view of the driver. They just are bad pictures and its a stupid to put those in the official material showing off the race to the fans visiting @dc, @coldfly

        1. If I started tweeting poor work from others in my field, I think that would be seen as bad form and arrogant. Basically, the way I read this tweet.
          I don’t appreciate these comments from the photographers that much, they seem to come out with a lot of negativity – for example, tweeting that the ‘press facilities’ are not up to their standard and the suchlike. Again, if I did that in my profession, i.e. insulting my hosts, I wouldn’t expect to be invited back.

    13. All this rubbish about road safety, the governments don’t give a hoot about safety. They are much more happy counting the pennies from fines by road users. If they are so bothered about speeding, why not fit speed limiters to every road car as well as trackers? I’ll tell you why, they wouldn’t get no money from speeders anymore!

      1. It’s not just traffic fines. It’s also investing in safe roads.

      2. There are moments when you have to go faster than the speed limit, for example to bring a loved one to a hospital .

      3. Thing is, sadly many governments don’t seem to give a hoot to innocents dying as a result of violence either @DamonW.

        1. Come on with current GPS technology how hard would it be to fit every car with a speed restrictor that applies to the speed limit of that area?

          When you hit a 30mph are the car slows down accordingly, these average speed cameras are dangerous devices. Half the time people are looking at their speedo instead of looking at the road ahead, of course they know all this but I guess they wouldn’t get no income through speeding…..

      4. DamonW, the answer is simple – because they know that the public will never accept such a device.

        Every time that there has been even the slightest suggestion of such an idea, the backlash from the public has been so vitriolic that nobody can stand up to it – so what the public demands, the public shall get.

    14. It has gone unnoticed badly (and sadly), but if Bottas’ words are anything to go by, he was immensely unfortunate with his penalty as well as it being a touch silly.

      I mean what’s wrong with overtaking someone while under red flag? Especially during FP? What don’t you just set a maximum speed which you cannot break from 10-15s after red flag is waved and you have to drive back to the pits with that speed maximum. It should be low enough to let marshalls work with stricken cars or debris (e. g. 80kph), but, crucially, if someone is in the situation of Bottas and Nasr or decides to go unnecessarily slow for some reason (like a mechanical failure or something) you can safely overtake and will not pay as high a price for such a nonsense as Bottas did.

      1. The driver of car 77 admitted he overtook car 12 under red flags, the Stewards in applying the penalty took into consideration that despite the considerable speed difference between the cars, the driver of car 77 could have avoided overtaking under the red flag.

        He got a penalty because the stewards did not accept that he had no choice but to overtake Nasr, see the quote above from the official document. They clearly believed that he could have remained behind, don’t forget that they have access to telemetry from the cars as well as video.

        It makes no difference if a red flag is in practice or the race, it is the most serious level of caution available, strictly no overtaking is allowed, indeed cars should be prepared to stop if necessary. The only circumstances were there has not been a penalty in the past has been when another driver has waved someone by because they have, or believe they have a technical problem (note it has to be the decision of the “slow” car to wave another driver by not the decision of the driver following to overtake), or if the stewards accept that the overtake was already under way and too late to abort (this was clearly Bottas’s argument which was not accepted).

      2. @atticus-2 True, although I can see it from both sides. Strictly, there’s no overtaking allowed, hence the lenient penalty vs. Vettel in Canada, but still, it’s impractical to just slam on the brakes and possibly spin or lose control when you see a red flag deployment. That could have caused an accident not unlike Rosberg slamming on when the VSC board came out on lap 1 in Russia (no doubt he reacted to it either as a safety car or out of immediate concern for deltas, timings and penalties).

        The maximum speed idea you describe, would best be served as ‘return to pits under pit limiter conditions’, although that might be overkill or fry some cars if they have to do that for a whole lap.

        1. @fastiesty Yes, that’s why I proposed that 10 or 15-second window to avoid having to slam on the brakes. It’s all very clever. :P

          But yeah, we might need a higher maximum speed to get some cool air in – but then again, something like 120kph may just kill the idea altogether…

    15. With all the gushing about how “clever” Rosberg was to go slower in Q2. This is what Vettel had to say about it:
      “The last hour gave us a bit of hope in Q2 definitely but I saw that Nico had quite a lot of mistakes on his lap in Q2”

      1. He might have tried to hold back a bit to keep his tyres in good condition @patrickl, but it was clear that he was all over the place in that lap with a lot of understeer etc, so maybe in not pushing too much his tyres might have actually suffered from not being in optimal temperaturs!

        1. Sliding all over the place is damaging the tyres. So either way, Eddie Jordan’s overly gushing rant on how “clever” it was was completely wrong. As usual though.

    16. I agree with Todt, road accidents kill 400 times more people than terrorism, and twice as many French people will die on the roads this month, than were killed in the Paris attacks.
      I’d happily support and observe a minutes silence for those killed in Paris, Lebanon, Kenya, Syria, and the other terrorist attacks this week, but that’s no reason for the FIA not to make a big deal about the more than a million people who die on the roads every year.

      1. True, but its not about ‘number of people killed’ is it? Thankfully most things can’t be measured by a single metric like that.
        I personally think that having 2 minutes silence for both would have been the right thing to do, but its only an opinion.

        1. Road deaths happen every day, and are made up of small incidents. People are pretty desensitised to them until they affect them directly.

          The Paris attack is close to home, and a single large event affecting large numbers of people at once. Luckily, such events are rare (at least in Europe).

          This is why people feel so strongly about them. In a way, I agree with the sentiment of Todt’s words, but they don’t really take into account human nature.

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