Gutierrez ‘under evaluation by Ferrari’

F1 Fanatic Round-up

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In the round-up: Esteban Gutierrez is being evaluated by Ferrari for a future F1 drive according to his new team principal.


Comment of the day

How will F1’s manufacturers propose to make F1 engines more affordable? @goonerf1 makes the case for shelving the MGU-H.

With the engine, I sincerely hope we end up with a 1.6L V6 turbo, with MGU’s in each wheel and loss of the MGU-H. I say this for the following reasons;

1. I find it highly unlikely the works manufacturers will want to change the ICE architecture.
2. MGU-K’s can, in rather crude terms I must admit, be “bolted on,” allowing you to separate the ICE/hybrid system.
3. This allows independent engine manufacturers to make the 1.6L V6 turbo aspect no problem.
4. Moving to the “K” all round permits and increase in electrical power from the 120kW we have now, to somewhere around the 300kW mark. For me, a 300kW architecture is a no brainer, pushing the hybrid message even further, and allowing teams to reach the 1000hp mark that so many people love, but doing so in a “green” way.
5. Moving to 300kW allows a direct transfer of R&D between F1 and FE, only encouraging further manufacturer involvement, giving in effect two formulas for the price of 1, in which they can demonstrate/hone their technology.
6. There are plenty of battery-powered engine manufacturers about. Separating out the hybrid system, F1 should be encouraging these companies to get involved. Williams do the batteries for FE for example. There’s no reason Williams couldn’t develop their own hybrid system off the 4 motors in the wheels and justify that investment off the back of F1 and FE involvement.
7. Motors in the wheels allows you to exploit negative torque, torque vectoring, four-wheel steering etc, all of which will have a dramatic improvement on lap times, and contributes directly to the road and everyday driving conditions.
8. It’s relatively easy/cheap to adapt the K to work off all four corners of the car. And the list goes on…

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60 comments on “Gutierrez ‘under evaluation by Ferrari’”

  1. Best COTD I’ve read in ages. Makes perfect sense and so logical that we know F1 won’t even come close to that.

    1. I disagree, to me the MGU-H is at least as important as the MGU-K because the piston in a racing car engine has a short stroke, and by having something akin to an alternator attached to a turbo unit gives you extra fuel efficiency, and extra fuel efficiency equates to power. Look at the deficit Honda have compared to the other cars, and that deficit is primarily due to an inefficient MGU-H, not an inefficient MGU-K.

    2. In what way does it make sense? What is such a setup trying to achieve?

      Personally I don’t want to see F1 going further down the patch of advanced electric propulsion. Placing MGU’s in the wheels will make the cars bulkier, heavier. They will also become more complex, increasing performance gaps between teams.

      To me it makes much more sense to keep the current power unit architecture; let development run it’s course and eventually all manufacturers will reach the limit of what’s possible within the regulations and performance gaps will decrease. If any tweaking must be done, do it to the fuel-flow rate and fuel budget. Increase to 110 kg/h and 1000 hp would be within reach. It would probably also make the engines slightly louder.

      Constant fiddling with the regulations is only going to achieve one thing: further gains to be had for top teams who are able to afford immediate investment in R&D.

      1. I think the mgu-h is a big part that make those engines so efficient, and the only part whose R&D can be past to road cars, recuperating wasted energy when u go offtrotle, and using that energy to respin the turbine deleting turbolag and saving fuel.or even keep it spining at the optimum for max power like qualy laps…
        All new cars are going turbo and this would be a part that would negate the negative properties of turbo engines that NA fans ar talking about. You could even get rid of the alternator/generator… And if the car uses electric steering assist the engine would need to spin only the timing belt with no more parasite agregates for even bigger efficency.

        1. The MGU-H is the only part of the new engines that is really innovative and now they want to ditch it … what?

          1. Exactly, everyone is talking that f1 isn’t relevant for road cars. The mgu-h can very well fit in the next generation S-class, and if it works well expand in the range. Imagine the publicity “f1 multiple-championship wining tehnology in your A-class”. And if that ends as a reason to buy a mercedes not a bmw or audi , that would be finally a good reason for manufacturers to rethink about entering f1….

          2. I’m not an engineer by any stretch of the imagination but it sounded good to me. I guess I’m not the best person to endorse any of these ideas but it certainly sounded like a very positive scenario.

    3. Very interesting ideas @tonyyeb but I’m pretty sure they won’t be able to harvest enough energy from braking to draw 300kW for more than a couple of seconds. That used to be a limitation even in the original scheme which was 60kW/6.7s iirc, and even adding the front wheels only multiplies the available energy by a little over 2.

      Also having mgu’s in the wheels would set off the mother and father of an arms race while they battled unsprung weight and control systems.

      They need mguH. What seems complicated and difficult now won’t seem so difficult in a year or two. Honda and Renault have made elementary mistakes at an organisational level, is most of the real problem.

      1. @lockup couldn’t have said it better

    4. ColdFly F1 (@)
      26th December 2015, 12:33

      Makes perfect sense

      It is logical for proven and old technologies to ‘make sense’ to most people. @tonyyeb

      But one of the appealing parts of F1/racing is that it’s innovative and years ahead of what ‘makes sense’ and what we’ll find later in road cars.
      MGU-H is one of those innovative ideas, as were disc brakes; use of carbon fibre; active suspension; traction control; ‘flappy paddles’ gear shifting; aerodynamics and ground effects; etc.

      I prefer F1 to be years ahead and on the cutting edge, rather than just ‘making sense’!

  2. Yes (@come-on-kubica)
    26th December 2015, 0:23

    If Gutierrez ever got a race seat at Ferrari, Ferrari should just stop.

    1. Why? What could prompt a display of eloquence such as yours?

      1. The fact that Gutierrez is a totally uninspiring driver who was outclassed at Sauber?

        1. In 2002, Massa was a totally uninspiring driver who was outclassed at Sauber. But he nearly ended up winning the title for Ferrari. Let’s just wait to see how Esteban does against Grosjean. You never know, he could turn it around next year.

          1. You’re absolutely right. And Grosjean’s first F1-campaign was a failure too. Alonso wiped the floor with him in 2009, after Grosjean replaced Piquet Jr.

            Don’t forget that Esteban won the GP3 title in his debut season! He is talented for sure, but he couldn’t show his potential yet. Why else would’ve Ferrari signed him?!

          2. Massa in 2002 was way better than GUT in 2013 2014. I cannot recall a driver with the amount of opportunities GUT had. He is just mentally weak. He has good skills, but he cannot perform under pressure. Nobody losing to SUT can.

          3. The headline is 100% correct. Ferraris evaluation will be that Guittierez is “under”.

          4. @srga91

            Don’t forget that Esteban won the GP3 title in his debut season!

            Well, inaugural seasons tend to be won by series debutants ;)

    2. Couldn’t agree more. Even Maldo has more talent. if Goofierrez has shown one thing it’s that he’s always, ALWAYS bested by his teamies.

      I must add that when I saw he was under evaluation I presumed it was for delusions of grandeur.

  3. It is funny Pastor has number 13… Not a number one should want to have… Since it is associated with accident prone superstitions.

    Back on subject of younger viewers… I do not own a TV anymore, not for 10 years now. When I watch F1 on TV its with my grandpa. 73y old. Nobody else in our family watches F1, and we are mostly men, save mother snd grandmother.

    Judging by my brothers..22, 25y… F1 is booring as hell. No hope. Father on other side thinks F1 is unsporting, because guy in fastest car wins. He watch a race with me when Schumacher came back… His comment was: See, not even Schumacher can win in a slow car.

    Now me and grandpa love driving, for us to driving is an event, thus when we watch, we watch masters of driving at work. As a physicist I love aerodynamics at display.

    My girlfriend notices only that LH44 is blonde now and that hot dude who drives for white team is angry agsin…

    F1 has a mountain to climb to attract a wider audiance in our family. It will not do it through fancy driver aids, sexy turbos or DRS passing.. (i an the only one who even notices DRS.) only way is to attract Drama. Rivalies. Characters, fair sportsmsnship, yet masterful but st same time dramatizing, emoraging….

    Good thing Lewis is dating that Kardashian girl… Gives me and my girl an “F1” topic we csn share.

    3 steps

    1 equalize car performance
    2 drama offtrack
    3 online access

    1. @jureo

      1 equalize car performance

      IZOD Indycar.

      1. Equalize car performance is the same as equalising driver ability. F1 is unique in that it is chassis, engine, driver ability, team work. If you want to dilute to just 1 variable we might as well use go karts to determine the drivers title.

        1. F1 is unique in that it is chassis, engine, driver ability, team work.

          There’s also the WEC, WRC, Blancpain GT, Super GT, and various touring car series where it’s more than just the driver.

          1. Agree, should of said F1 is the most high profile series that does this. Anyway you cannot filter it down to 1 variable like 100 percent driver ability as to some fans it is not the driver that is most important. F1 has many variables as do the other series you mentioned. If all fans wanted was the best driver to win we would just put them in equal 125cc karts.

    2. Apparently you still care enough about it to have an account here and post a long winded complaint. The only thing of value from your comment is the very last sentence about online access to F1

      1. And the deterioration of the entertainment value of F1, and how that it’s failing to attract new fans.

        1. Maybe motorsport in general has an issue. WEC had 13 LMP1 cars at LeMans in 2015 and the series is excellent but somehow there will be 9 LMP1 cars in 2016 LeMans. They did nothing wrong but have shrunk. Has motorsport got less popular in general? Has F1 although maybe getting smaller taken a greater percentage of the shrinking motorsport audience?

          1. Because the third cars are not allowed for 2016 maybe? That’s three gone just from Porsche, Audi and Toyota

          2. @nvherman: Audi and Porsche are both part of the Volkswagen Group, which is reeling from the fallout of the diesel emissions scandal, and is therefore cutting back motorsport spending; part of that is cutting their Le Mans commitment. And Toyota haven’t run a third car at Le Mans for the last few years; 2016 is no different.

          3. So it begs the question F1 is adding a team next year but LMP1 is losing 4 cars at Le Mans despite in my opinion being the better run series. Strange.

          4. But as I said, LMP1 is losing cars for reasons entirely unrelated to the WEC.

    3. 13 is only unlucky if you are a Knight Templar in the year 1307.

  4. Haas is not being serious. my guess is they are trying to make Estweban look better than he really is. On a F1 car he showed nothing but nothing. Good or bad car he managed to gain…nothing. hUl with the C33 scored in 10 races an Esteban in just 1 (esteban raced 1 more race because Hul didnt race australia in 2013). while HuL was fighting ham and alo in korea…..gutierrez was 11 or worse. in 2014 with a horrible c34 he managed to lose to SUT. yes…Haas want us to believe Ferrari will hire somebody that lost to SUT. ferrari did not watch Monaco 2014 where Esteban crashed in rascasse for 15 m€. Haas…seriously….just say is the highest bid, he is from mexico… honest. No one believes GUt can end in Ferrari…not even him!

  5. Gutierrez does not even deserve a race seat at Haas, let alone Ferrari. There are so many better drivers than him on the grid. He is a Mexican Max Chilton. Gutierrez is a typical pay driver on the level of Maldonado and Ericsson.

    1. I disagree.

      Maybe on par with Maldonado, whose performance often elicits debate. He is young and his backers probably threw him into F1 sooner than he was ready for. He is not a natural by any means, but he is a solid worker and a good team member by all accounts. Insiders say he is too sensitive to a good setup and that on his second year in Sauber he never got past the frustration of setting the car to his liking, he has obvious issues managing power delivery, but in 2014 he showed good racing against the STRs and Raikkonen, particularly. He is also an opportunist and a great starter, he might have beaten Alonso on lap-1 passes that year, or was close to him on that battle.

      As a fan of his I hope he’s learned from watching Vettel work with his engineers and that the hours in the simulator give him some maturity.

      1. Excuse me sir….2014 in formula 1? The same year GUT lost to SUT? The very same year his mistake at rascasse cost Sauber 15 M€? Please, i enjoy fanatisms. But GUT had more opportunities than the average driver and he threw them away. He has good skills but weak mind.

      2. Poor performances and lots of money, he is a typical pay driver. Far from deserving any F1 seat IMO.

    2. I agree. Gutierrez is poor. I’m also a ‘solid worker’ but it doesn’t mean I deserve an F1 drive.

    3. The plus side is that through his 2 years at Ferrari engined Sauber, and having him in the Ferrari simulator at the time, and since then, Ferrari will have a decent base line to compare Grosjean against.

      And IF Guttierez does well against Grosjean, he might just have improved in between his first 2 years and next year. You never know.

  6. Ferrari aren’t evaluating Gutierrez as a future driver, his mediocrity just isn’t worth it. Haas is just saying this to try to justify having a pay driver in the team.

    1. Haas should select his lies then. Ferrari considering GUt is as funny as Bernie Ecclestone considering noisier V10

  7. Gutierrez was completely woeful at Sauber. He doesn’t even have the credentials for a good number two let alone an equal number one.

    Based on their performances in 2014 which was the last time both he and Räikkönen raced, I cannot see Gutierrez doing a better job, especially if he continues clouting into the likes of Maldonado.

  8. To all the sad F1 “experts” here bashing Gutierrez, who seem to know more than Ferrari Management, we will see after one year if he indeed is a waste of time…we will see.

    1. You’re forgetting GUT already had two seasons, after which he was deemed unfit…

    2. we will see after one year if he indeed is a waste of time

      Time is money, and he’s got loads of it. But it doesn’t make him a good driver.

  9. So Ferrari doesn’t want Hulk because he’s to slow… And maybe wants Guti who was totally trashed by Hulk (and even by Sutil). Does make sense! Poor Haas… KMag would be totally better choice but I know, money…

    1. I think Ferrari doesn’t want Hulk because he is relatively large. And currently also the PR side of it would not be optimal with having 2 germans in the cars @andycz

      1. Maybe he’s large, but still he’s a lot faster than a lot thinner Guti… It’s just weird that Ferrari wants to try Guti after so poor two years in Sauber…

        1. @andycz, as others have suggested, it sounds more as if Haas is playing up Gutierrez’s abilities and appeal for commercial ends – after all, Ferrari have had their chance to evaluate his performances, both through Sauber and by getting Gutierrez to work in their simulator (although it is perhaps notable that it is Vergne who has been given most of the simulator work to do).

  10. Why does Ferrari want to target a young audience? Because youngsters buy Ferrari cars? Or have the patience to watch long races over a long season? Or maybe it’s because they have disposable income and can afford to go to races or easily afford the pay-TV package needed?

  11. I’d love the idea a couple of years out and tutelage by Ferrari have turned Gutierrez around and he’ll be a future world champion, but I can’t see if it I’m honest.

    I’ll give him a chance, but I doubt he’ll be any more uninspiring than he was the first time round.

    1. Well we will know at the end of the season. I agree with your view on thus nice to see but I doubt it. If Raikkonen leaves and they need a new driver in 2017 current options that appear far better are Grosjean, Verstappen, Sainz, Perez, Hulkenberg, Vandoorne, Magnussen, Vergne. Some would be very hard to get but not impossible.

      1. I think that Magnussen is very overrated. Button scored double the amount of points of Magnussen that year. Still, he did a far better job than Raikkonen by scoring the same amount of points in an inferior car.

  12. I highly doubt Ferrari are giving genuine consideration to Gutierrez as a future driver. The world of F1 is highly political. Token gestures like having Gutierrez as a reserve driver, making him the number two driver of the Ferrari B-Team and news pieces suggesting he has a future as a Ferrari driver are all just empty gestures which make for good headlines and keeps old Carlos happy.

    1. OmarRoncal - Go Seb!!! (@)
      26th December 2015, 11:44

      To keep Slim happy, he can and should just throwba ton of money to Force India and keep backing on Perez.

      1. Slim could by F1 and flood half the grid with Mexican drivers, he could easily afford it, heck he can afford to buy Ferrari.

    2. Yes, him driving helps Haas comercially and the solution already helped Ferrari. And at the same time they will have a decent base with a driver they know from 2 years at Sauber (with their engines) and from simulator time in their own simulator to compare Grosjean against

  13. I think once Kimi is done, and 2016 could well be his last season, IF he doesn’t have a good year, Ferrari will probably ditch him and his big salary though Vettel would like him to stay because they are friends and especially he knows he can beat Kimi most of the time.
    Ferrari will then be in a pickle – they want to keep the “saviour” Vettel comfortable so I don’t think they will hire a top tier driver but a rear gunner to support Vettel much like Schuey and Alonso had.
    So I don’t see RIC, VES or even a BOT getting the seat. Maybe a GUT type is what they are looking for.

    1. They want the best driver so if someone can beat Vettel they will want that driver. They have Vergne already who beat Ricciardo so maybe best to look in house.

  14. Oh evaluate him for a race seat!? I thought he was ill or something.

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