In the round-up: Red Bull team principal Christian Horner says the team will be just “treading water” in 2016.
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Red Bull 'treading water' in 2016 (Autosport)
"We're just going to have to tread water for a moment until we get ourselves back onto the front foot and our time will come again."
Verstappen and Sainz can be as successful as Vettel - Tost (Motorsport)
"Vettel, as well as Carlos and Max, they have the necessary patience and attitude and motivation and commitment to be in F1, and they are all hard workers."
Alex Lynn knows 2016 could be the big one to achieve his F1 dreams (Daily Gazette)
"I think I contributed a fair amount to the team’s success last year and I’d love the opportunity to continue that."
Why 2016 could be Mercedes' undoing (BBC)
"Wolff's suggestion - which is only an idea for now - would undoubtedly make life more entertaining for those watching. But it would effectively force the two drivers' engineering teams to work in opposition to each other."
McLaren P1 the first car that will never depreciate (The Telegraph)
"It’s quite staggering to think the P1’s value will only ever appreciate. Even recent hypercars like the Ferrari Enzo dipped below list price at certain points before bouncing back into positive equity."
Настоящая зимняя сказка на Сочи Автодроме! #F1 #F1Sochi pic.twitter.com/kk2BTyFIdx
— Sochi Autodrom (@SochiAutodrom) January 3, 2016
Planning a grand prix trip in 2016? Went to an #F1 race in 2015? Share your experiences, tips and more here: https://t.co/cZmm2Ug5io #F1F
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Comment of the day
Ecclestone is pushing for louder F1 cars but RogerA doesn’t want to lose what’s good about the current engines:
These current power units are amazing bits of kit that are producing a lot of power (the Mercedes is what somewhere around 900bhp now?) and for the first time in over a decade actually challenging the drivers in terms of the torque and drivers actually having to manage the throttle. not since the pre-traction control v10s have the cars been moving around so much under acceleration with wheelspin and drivers having to modulate the throttle rather than just putting there foot down without much worry.
I would not be against a bit more volume but I don’t feel that volume should come at the expense or be pushed as been more important than overall performance.
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On this day in F1
Five years ago today the consequences of Ferrari driver Fernando Alonso’s 2010 championship defeat were felt as the team sacked top strategist Chris Dyer
31 comments on “Horner expects no progress for Red Bull in 2016”
4th January 2016, 0:28
The question is if they will publicly bash TAG or Renault for the engine this year.
4th January 2016, 0:40
They’ll bash anyone and everyone, and at the end of the year, Horner will come out and say it’s not good to do dirty laundry in public.
4th January 2016, 6:11
Or you could both grow up and see that they made very accurate comments indeed despite being the team ‘everyone’ hates.
ColdFly F1 (@)
4th January 2016, 6:33
I’m not one for New Year’s resolutions.
But notwithstanding; for me in 2016 all teams/key people in F1 start with a clean slate.
– Monisha can prove how good she is in managing a team with a relatively small budget;
– RBR can show that fun and success can go together in F1;
– Kimi is again a successful ex-WDC racing in a great team together with another great driver;
– and Pastor’s crash tally is back at zero!
Captain Pie (@captainpie)
4th January 2016, 15:43
Pastor will never be at zero, just a temporary glitch whilst someone fixes the clock to work with a leap year . . .
Are we counting the start of the season as the first race or “pre season” running (yes I know, I said pre-season)? Because I am sure Maldonado will not have an issue busting up in preseason ;)
4th January 2016, 6:40
I think Renault put it in the contract that they are not allowed to bash the manufacturer @rethla!
4th January 2016, 6:49
Well TAG Heuer are giving them money and Renault are taking it from them…so it’ll be Renault who gets the flack.
4th January 2016, 8:07
was that supposed to be humouress?
bull mello (@bullmello)
4th January 2016, 1:47
I heard Mr. Christian Horner is changing his name to Mr. Sunshine…
4th January 2016, 6:37
I am not sure what he means by “the best pit stops” but they definitely were not the fastest. F1 Fanatic statistics show that both Mercedes and Ferrari were usually faster in the pit lane than Red Bull.
4th January 2016, 9:08
Yes, but the stats page you mentioned only shows the fastest stop for each team, not the average over all stops in a race.
Alec Glen (@alec-glen)
4th January 2016, 10:48
Yeah Red Bull averaged out the fastest and had the least issues generally which is what you want operationally.
4th January 2016, 13:07
Here are the average pit stop times in 2015:
Lewis Hamilton 24.178
Nico Rosberg 24.367
Sebastian Vettel 24.978
Daniil Kvyat 24.994
Sergio Perez 25.12
Nico Hulkenberg 25.256
Daniel Ricciardo 25.441
Felipe Nasr 25.504
Felipe Massa 25.565
Valtteri Bottas 25.875
Romain Grosjean 25.928
Marcus Ericsson 26.107
Jenson Button 26.136
Kimi Raikkonen 26.297
Max Verstappen 26.524
Roberto Merhi 26.599
Fernando Alonso 27.374
Carlos Sainz Jnr 27.768
Will Stevens 27.999
Alexander Rossi 28.322
Pastor Maldonado 29.64
Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
4th January 2016, 18:03
I wouldn’t have thought the driver makes a difference in the pit stop timing, but it appears it does. Not sure why, but it does. Look at that: the guys that were most often on the podium were the quickest, and in the order they were on the podium too! I wouldn’t have picked that result!
4th January 2016, 18:45
@drycrust, you would expect there to be some variation between drivers in the same team given that each driver has a slightly different pit crew. Whilst some key personnel will be the same, it is normally the case that some of the mechanics allocated to each driver will double up as pit crew workers during the race weekend, introducing some slight variation between the pit crews.
@girts, just to clarify the situation, does your average include or exclude abnormally long stops due to issues in the pit lane – for example, if a wheel nut became stuck and the driver was forced to to sit in the pit lane for an additional five or so seconds?
4th January 2016, 19:49
The times will depend in part on how well the driver hits their marks.
5th January 2016, 7:19
@anon My average includes all 687 pit stops. Detailed investigation would probably be necessary to exclude all the abnormal stops as a pit stop can be longer for various reasons. However, we can exclude all the pit stops that were, let us say, more than 6 seconds longer than the fastest pit stop in the race (64/687). This is probably a fairer reflection of pit stop performance and it shows that some drivers’ crews (Button, Grosjean, Verstappen) were actually very good. But it does not change the big picture much.
Nico Rosberg 24.109
Lewis Hamilton 24.165
Jenson Button 24.331
Sebastian Vettel 24.522
Romain Grosjean 24.549
Daniil Kvyat 24.588
Daniel Ricciardo 24.663
Max Verstappen 24.774
Felipe Nasr 24.775
Nico Hulkenberg 24.797
Sergio Perez 24.815
Fernando Alonso 24.819
Felipe Massa 24.851
Valtteri Bottas 24.892
Kimi Raikkonen 25.108
Carlos Sainz Jnr 25.135
Marcus Ericsson 25.16
Pastor Maldonado 25.265
Will Stevens 25.614
Roberto Merhi 26.214
Alexander Rossi 27.039
5th January 2016, 20:46
@girts, that quick and dirty process is probably close enough for our purposes, and whilst it does close things up in some quarters, it does seem that the general trend is indeed pointing towards Red Bull being slightly slower in the pits than their rivals. Mercedes have certainly been drilling their crews hard over the winter – it was commented that, because their cars were so reliable in pre-season testing, they were also able to do more practise pit stops and probably gained an edge there – but it does also look as if Red Bull have perhaps lost a little of their edge as well.
4th January 2016, 13:13
And here is the list of 2015 teams and their average pit stop times:
Force India 25.183
Red Bull 25.23
Toro Rosso 27.102
4th January 2016, 9:33
I reckon Lynn took a huge amount of damage falling off in the lead in Sochi. The prognosis for drivers who do that is generally not good.
4th January 2016, 11:33
Looking forward to another 12 months of Horner telling everyone that everyone preferred Red Bull dominance over Mercedes dominance.
4th January 2016, 12:53
Am I remembering correctly that when Red Bull were using Ferrari engines in 2006 they were just as critical of them as they have been the Renault the past few years & there was some trouble over the fact they moved the Ferrari engine supply deal over to STR against Ferrari’s wishes in order to get Renault engines for the main team?
I can’t remember the exact details now & I don’t have the time to do a proper search ATM but i’m sure I remember there been some problems at the time.
4th January 2016, 19:11
PeterG, from what I can recall, Red Bull weren’t quite so critical in the press at the time – however, with Red Bull being a minor team with very limited clout in the sport (2006 was only their second year in F1, and at the time they had a reputation for being a “party team” that meant few took serious notice of them), Red Bull probably were in a position where they couldn’t throw their weight around in the media in the way that they can now.
It is true, though, that the switchover was not easy – Ferrari was not keen on ending its contract with Red Bull and initially tried to hold them to their commitment to 2007, and it took several months before Red Bull could eventually persuade Ferrari to relent.
4th January 2016, 14:15
The headline should read ” Red Bull expects no progress for Horner in 2016″
4th January 2016, 15:52
I still don’t see what Red Bull are going to do for an engine in 2017. They’re going to be flat out on that chassis as fast as it’s defined, so none of the manufacturers is going to want to help them out with a top motor. I don’t think they even have a Renault contract for 2017 do they?
I don’t see the independent engine happening either: while everyone else has a Merc or Ferrari unit they won’t be swapping for a new low-budget item. Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault and Honda won’t bend over for a different spec of engine ‘equalised’ by the ever-untrustworthy FIA either.
Red Bull are going to have to buy an engine maker, and they can’t catch up in one year.
4th January 2016, 17:40
Does seem to be as you say, and I would just add once again that I don’t think it is any longer as simple as building a top chassis and buying a top PU. The two have to be integrated earlier than ever in the design and manufacturing stage…the PU has to talk to the car and the brakes now and visa versa. RBR needs a works deal for 2017, and to know all about the shape and size of said PU, or hope the PU regs get changed soon. As things are it would take a miracle, as I see it, for them to slap someone’s PU in their car and compete against the works teams who can design and integrate both at the same time. Even if they would have more success marrying two ‘strangers’ (chassis and PU) than I am giving them credit for, I still say they will be on their hind foot in this format as long as they don’t have a works deal in the works.
Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
4th January 2016, 18:10
So who might be interested in supplying and engine and hybrid technology to Red Bull? Toyota? I guess part of the problem for Red Bull is if they did the research to develop their own engine and hybrid system themselves they might as well start using it commercially.
4th January 2016, 18:53
As I understand it @drycrust @robbie they all buy in a lot of the parts from specialist subcontractors – the motor-generators, turbo, and batteries. Then they have to tie it all together with software, which RBR have been active in already trying to row Renault along.
I guess they need a fuel supplier and combustion chamber design, which maybe Ilmor can help them with or they can recruit/poach? The ICE is all casting and machining and bought-in bits like pistons.
I reckon they can do it, but they’ll have to catch up for a year or two and spend a lot of money. It’s their only option isn’t it? So 2017 is going to be a modest year too.
Unless Ron’s veto runs out, it occurs to me.
6th January 2016, 7:19
Not sure whether it’s still the case, but my father had some dealings with Toyota back in the early 80’s. They had a very simple motto, plastered up in all of their factories: “Beat Benz”.
That’s where the Lexus came from. So, I guess it might be possible that they’ll look to enter the format, possibly under the Lexus brand.
4th January 2016, 20:40
Firstly good comment RogerA,.. Mercedes power unit head guy made a statement that these engines are now doing same power as old V10s, while at same time reaching power produced/fuel consumed efficiency of large marine diesels. Thus probably.the most efficient petrol engines in the world, edging 1000hp from 1.6l… Imagine that in a road car?
In a road car that would mean 100hp from 0.16L 1 cylinder, delivered at 10l fuel per hour… In normal operating highway conditions that would equate to say 2l/100km of petrol. Just some thumb engine math here, so roughly 3x more efficient than todays road going engines.
This is why Renault and Honda are so up for current engine formula, small efficient engines are exactly their ballpark. Mercedes road division is already greatly upgraded by small turbo engines.
These engines then are a wonder, no other motosport sport can claim such figures.
F1 performance (@patent)
4th January 2016, 21:08
I think we dont need an independent engine supplier because a new engine would be absolutely different such as: hp, consumption, weight, size, price, reliability, complex etc. So how can we introduce a new engine fairly? We cant! If a new engine would be cheaper it should be less competitive or manufacturers dont develop their currently PUs.
Red Bull need a new manufacturer (Audi, BMW, Toyota) or they have to make their own PU or they will exit. So Red Bull need a competitive PU or they will exit.
I think their best solution would have been if they didnt criticize Renault and Renault wouldnt have joined F1 as manufacturer (as a whole team).
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