Felipe Massa, Williams, Monza, 2015

No progress in Italian Grand Prix talks

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In the round-up: The future of the Italian Grand Prix at Monza remains in doubt after another setback.

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Mercedes and Manor: the new Ferrari-Haas?

It has to be significant that the deal includes using Manor using Mercedes’ 50% scale wind tunnel. Surely some Manor aero guys are going to end up having a coffee with some Mercedes aero guys. Or even more… dinner! :) Ferrari/Haas is a model Mercedes were specifically interested in, and Manor have the same allocation of aero hours. Tombazis won’t need to have all the ‘i’s dotted and ‘t’s crossed will he? An engineer or two might move for a promotion.

Mercedes actively want one of Manor’s drivers to do well. So I would not be surprised to find Manor’s chassis is quite passable, quite quickly.

Points? Well say if Wehrlein is worth a few tenths over Nasr, Ericsson, Palmer and Gutierrez, the engine is worth a second or so over a few of the others, it only needs a good weekend to coincide with a few bad weekends. Just about odds on to score a point, I’d say. Twice, why not.

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Keith Collantine
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  • 38 comments on “No progress in Italian Grand Prix talks”

    1. I’m going to come out here and say that I hope F1 leaves Monza. It’s too easy of a track for the best racing drivers in the world to be competing on. Come on now, seven corners and three of them are chicanes…. Snooooooooorre

      1. you need variety and high-speed nature of monza adds to the that. Even monaco is snore after start and its low-speed track but it has its own specialty. Ones to get rid-off should be tracks that are boring and adds nothing to that variety or challenge like abu-dhabi, bahrain and russia probably.

      2. Besides the obvious features, Monza adds variety to the calendar, it has been the fastest track for a long time and being fast makes it challenging, it can’t be an easy track as aero is turned down as much as possible, which has a tremendous effect on braking performance and stability for the chicanes, judging how hard and how much kerb to take is pivotal to becoming a good f1 driver, if anything the higher downforce tracks make the driving easier, you can rely on grip to soften the driver’s imperfections.

      3. I agree with Billy. When was the last time we saw an interesting race at Monza? 2008? And even that was mainly due to wet weather.

        I’d love it if Italian GP would be driven at Mugello and every other year at Monza or Imola.

        1. I do love and enjoy watching battles and overtakes, but the main reason why I fell in love with F1 when I was a kid – was to watch drivers pushing the limits and driving on the edge. This is why I like to watch qualifying sessions no less than actual races. And this is why my favourite tracks always were Suzuka, Spa and Monza – due to its incredible fast speed corners. Pedal to the floor in 130R and Eau Rouge, full throttle acceleration in Parabolica. When you watch this acceleration, your heart rate accelerates too. This is fascinating feeling.

          P.S. That’s a shame they put an asphalt on the run-off area there.

        2. @huhhii 2010 was a good one. The way McLaren split their cars strategies and Jenson held off Alonso with his damaged rear wing for most of the race was pretty gripping.

          It’s always good to watch drivers who try to pass around Curva Grande and outbreak their rivals at Roggia.

          You could say it’s not always been amazing for racing as a whole, but the way the track is means there’s always good action – at least it gives teams with less-developed aero a good chance to fight with the rest of the pack.

          1. @Optimaximal But racing-wise the 2010 race was quite boring (BTW I attended that race).

      4. Have you been there ?? I have and it’s magical.
        It add a variety to the calender whete you can see an F 1 car going as fast as it can.
        Maybe you’d prefer another Tilke snore fest where it seems the tracks are packed away and shipped around the world.

        1. I’ve been there last season. Probably one of the most boring races of 2015 but the place, indeed, is magical.
          I’m not someone who is very sentimental and all, but somehow, when we walked under the oval. Goosebumps all over.

      5. I couldn’t disagree more. It’s a unique circuit, far faster than anything else F1 races on, it’s one of the most enduring venues on the calendar with a beautiful parkland setting and a brilliant podium. I’d be almost heartbroken if F1 turned its back on a such a vital piece of its heritage.

        And if we’re going to start chucking circuits off the calendar on the grounds they haven’t held many good races recently, we’re going to end up with a five-round championship.

      6. You can’t be serious. Some of the best overtaking moves and most intense battles have been at Monza. Plus there is just something about Parabolica leading on to the start finish straight with cars hitting maximum revs that’s just unique to Monza. I would actually rate it is one the must watch races for way too many reasons – Fastest track on the calender, great battles and overtaking, Italian atmosphere, mixed weather races there are phenomenal, etc.

      7. You’re kidding right?

        1. Man, i’ll get rid of 3 tilkedromes just to get Monza. Even with the sanitized parabolica, this is still a blast, a circuit with real character, tricky on braking, and I’d say that the races aren’t better lately due the dull DRS, which turns the good old circuits (spa, Montreal, etc) in push button to pass festival. I will not even mention the atmosphere and heritage.

      8. The only thing wrong with Monza is DRS. In no way is that Monza’s fault!

        1. @Euro Brun DRS is relatively ineffective at the Monza circuit thanks to the unique low-downforce setups.

      9. You seriously want to get rid of Monza? I can think of at least four other circuits to ditch looooong before I’d leave Monza: Sochi, Abu Dhabi, Shanghai, and for sure Baku (who the hell wanted a race in Azerbaijan anyway?!).

        1. …or Bahrain

      10. Historical significance or not, I agree Monza’s time is up.

        Good tracks evens out the various cars’ characteristics for a closer field and good racing, this does the exact opposite.

      11. I’ll be honest…I’m not sure I will keep watching F1 if Monza leaves the schedule. It’s gotten a bit too much. Sorry. Azerbaijan but no Monza? Yeah…I will be out.

    2. I don’t know what to say….. Monza is a cornerstone track for F1, it would be equivalent to removing iTunes from the iPhone/iPad/iMac, at the same time it isn’t conducive to drama like Hockenheim, Australia, Silverstone.

      If they’re going to drop the replacement better be damn good.

      1. @texasisbiggerthanfrance

        Monza is a cornerstone track for F1, it would be equivalent to removing iTunes from the iPhone/iPad/iMac

        So… utterly fantastic?

        1. I kid, I kid ;)

          1. WHat ? Didn’t get you ?

            1. @texasisbiggerthanfrance I was just joking, calling “removing iTunes” utterly fantastic (which would make removing Monza from the calendar also utterly fantastic).

              I’ll get me coat now. ;)

      2. Peppermint-Lemon (@)
        12th February 2016, 8:29

        A bad analogy… Removing iTunes from iPhone/pc would a great move.

    3. Quite honestly, it’s the Italian Grand Prix that really matters, not as much Monza. Not having an Italian GP is beyond belief, in my opinion- not having a German GP this year was bad enough- but no Italian GP? God almighty. Sure, Monza’s special- it’s hosted nearly every Italian GP since 1922 and so much has happened there over the decades- but quite honestly, I think that there would be a similar atmosphere if the Italian Grand Prix started hosting at another circuit in Italy, namely Imola or Mugello. What would also be good is if those 3 venues alternated hosting the Italian GP. That would be nice.

      1. I could live with that.

      2. If you dislike the racing at Monza, Imola would be horrible racing too. Not to mention that there is even less money available there and facilities would need a grandise overhaul. Ferrari is certainly not going to subside Bernie by paying for a race at Mugello.

        1. And Mugello is a track where the bike racers already have trouble finding overtaking spots (other than the main straight). How would that work out for F1 cars?!

          1. deciding what tracks f1 goes to should not be all about overtaking.

            mugello for example is a great circuit, fairly high speed, some fast/challenging corners & its a circuit that really challenged both car & driver.

            its the same with places like imola & Magny-cours, yes overtaking was a rarity but the circuits themself’s were/are fantastic & both were always popular with drivers because of the challenging nature of them.

            even circuits like suzuka & silverstone (although the new layout is better for overtaking) tended to not produce a great deal of overtaking yet how any talk of moving those off the calendar is met with resistance because they are ‘great circuits’.

            seeing overtaking is good & all but f1 should not pick circuits purely based on how easy overtaking is, they should pick the best circuits which are the most challenging & demanding. Thats what f1 was always about until these low attention span kids started insisting that f1 be about action every lap because even 1 lap of nothing happening makes the whole thing boring.

    4. Interesting to see that the issue with Monza is infrastructure development – wasn’t this the same issue with Silverstone a few years back?

    5. I remember before the 2014 PUs were introduced, everyone was talking about the ‘Turbo’ experience that the manufacturers had.

      Mercedes was smart enough to source that expertise within the Daimler group to achieve something brilliant! Renault was always considered to make a solid 2014 PU due to their extensive use of turbos in their road cars. I wonder whether Renault tried the same. Luckily Ferrari had Honeywell to count on, who have massive expertise in the field.

      Hats off to Mercedes! As annoying as it is to watch them dominate in this fashion, they have arguably made one of the most dominating racing engines of all time.

      1. @todfod Cosworth DFV springs to mind (though I guess you did say “one of”…)

    6. Lol, reading Monza Comments.. We have a good race there every year. It is the one race. Not entierly engine dependant.

      Also fastest race of the year. Imola is fun, mugello is good but Monza is special.

      Offcorse every few years they try to ruin the track. ..

      1. WTB comment edit. Wrote engine, not aero as intended. My mind was clouded with sounds of cars on full blast comming out of parabolica…. Bumps at lesmos, amazing speed at end of the straight… And Vettel on the podium finally not getting booed.

        1. Now the Reds are getting their act together, to leave out Italy, the home of Ferrari, would be crazy. The passion from the Ferrari fans is fantastic.

          I don’t know if a different circuit in Italy would be better but I don’t think we’d miss the Russian GP.

          Bernie is supposedly trying to increase viewing numbers. He won’t do that by dumping the core circuits close to the teams’ HQs.

          1. And Vettel on the podium finally not getting booed.

            I’ll just add, if Vettel were on the top step at Italy, it would probably be the pinnacle of his career so far. We’d see tears from that all right.

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