Kvyat axed by Red Bull, Verstappen takes his place for Spain

2016 F1 season

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Max Verstappen will drive a Red Bull from the next F1 race in Spain after Daniil Kvyat was dropped by the team following his poor showing at his home grand prix.

Kvyat was penalised heavily by the stewards after crashing into Sebastian Vettel twice at the start of Sunday’s Russian Grand Prix. The collision also led to his team mate Daniel Ricciardo and Carlos Sainz Jnr of sister team Toro Rosso failing to score points.

Kvyat took third in the previous race
The Russian driver, who is in his third season of F1, took the second podium finish of his career to date at the previous round in China where he finished third. Kvyat will return to Toro Rosso for next weekend’s race at the Circuit de Catalunya, driving alongside Sainz.

“Max has proven to be an outstanding young talent,” said team principal Christian Horner. “His performance at Toro Rosso has been impressive so far and we are pleased to give him the opportunity to drive for Red Bull Racing.”

“We are in the unique position to have all four drivers across Red Bull Racing and Toro Rosso under long term contracts with Red Bull, so we have the flexibility to move them between the two teams.”

“Dany will be able to continue his development at Toro Rosso, in a team that he is familiar with, giving him the chance to regain his form and show his potential.”

The news prompted a surprised reaction from McLaren driver Jenson Button. “Really?” he wrote on social media, “one bad race and Kyvat’s dropped, what about the podium in the previous race? Short memories.”

2016 Russian Grand Prix

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    Keith Collantine
    Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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    308 comments on “Kvyat axed by Red Bull, Verstappen takes his place for Spain”

    1. Wow, pure red bull style.

      1. Boy, that escalated quickly.

        1. Damn Daniil!

          1. Hahahahahahaha

        2. Not that quickly. He had tyre problems in all qualifications this year. So obviously now he was boycotted by a team.

          1. @regs
            I didn’t hear anything about that. Can you be more specific? Was is it something like not getting enough heat into the tyres like Raikkonen sometimes has with the fronts (in Sochi quali i think)?

            1. First two races are quite obvious. In China he had to qualify on used tyres. In Russia team sent him too late on track, so there was no time for warm up lap.

      2. Wow, I’m seechless.
        This is beyond brutal. We all pretty much accepted that this mistake cost Kvyat his seat… for the next year! But dropping him after four races, one of which saw him on the podium and hailed driver of the day?! This is ruthless.
        I don’t know how stong Kvyat is mentally, but things like that may destroy a person! There is just so much pressure on this guy now. He is forced to show that he is still capable after such a back-stab from his team, which in turn WILL lead to more mistakes. And under such scruitiny as right now, any mistakes will generate further hate for Danil. I’m affraid, this is it for him in F1.

        1. I think the pressure Verstappen has is even higher, I’m fearing a Verstappen breakdown a lot more than a Kvyat breakdown.

        2. I disagree your reasoning for his move.
          Max himself influenced this decision more then anything. What I mean is the team (Marco) have such high regard for the guy they can’t wait to move him up to the mother team. They were planning on doing this at the end of the year regardless of what happened in Sochi with Kyvat. Why? Because Max has a out from his contract if he doesn’t drive for Red Bull next year, so they didn’t want him snatched by another team.

          Since Red Bull had such a high regard for Max, and from what happened in Sochi, it gave them, let’s call it an “opportunity” to play the “slap on the hand” card to Kvyat and do this move sooner rather then later.

          Like, think about it, the guy gets a podium the last race and now has one bad race? Other motives were at play here and Kvyat gave them the tools to use that sooner rather then later. Its that simple.

          1. Completely agree. Red Bull has knows for 2 years they were going to do this. Kvyat gave them an opening sooner than planned and they took it, it’s that simple. Marco and company want the young Max in their car as “the next great driver” and they did whatever it took to get him there.

          2. Agreed!

        3. Mr now it all
          6th May 2016, 4:23

          Red Bull has all driver data so Verstappen must stand out and be way better than the other two. His tiremanagement is so much better than Sainz which was obvious in Russia.

      3. I personally think it’s the wrong time for VES to move up, not because I don’t think he can perform in the car, he clearly can. But mentally I don’t think he is there at the moment, he is extremely rough around the edges in his attitude and I don’t think he is grounded enough to handle it, that media inflated ego has already made an couple of appearances when it shouldn’t have. Can you imagine the repeat of Australia happening but with RIC as his team mate? It would have been a completely different story.

        Time will tell but I fear that this is the wrong move for him and decisions he makes now will impact his career down the line.

        1. duncan idaho
          5th May 2016, 23:37

          Maybe that’s the point, he’s less likely to get stuck battling RIC – if at any point the tyre/car differences are in VES favour, RIC would probably let him go (IMO if there are no differences, RIC would be up the road).

        2. I totally agree about Verstappen being a little rough around the edges, and probably a little immature in his attitude sometimes….. But consider Lewis Hamilton’s first few seasons with McLaren.. I’m a huge Lewis fan, but the words slightly unstable come to mind, particularly in those early years… still with Ron in charge, he seemed to do alright!

      4. sunny stivala
        5th May 2016, 12:11

        one fast tracked hype job replaced with another with 10x the tantrums.
        but contrary to many believes the red bullies has ruined more drivers careers than they made.

      5. Too harsh.

        On the lighter side, the Russian Grad Prix proved to be a bit interesting after all.

      6. Redbull indeed don’t care what you think of them.
        How can a team do everything to make sure no one likes them?
        I am totally speechless.

      7. Mr Mateschitz has, over the years, put hundreds of millions of dollars into F1. Maybe he’s turned a profit, but in any case he has the right to decide how his money is spent. This has always been the case in F1 — people who make the effort, make the decisions.
        Kvyat really disappointed me at Sochi. His first collision with Vettel was perhaps an unfortunate “racing incident”, but to deliver the coup de grâce seconds later was perhaps psychologically understandable, but totally unacceptable.
        I’m not talking “regulations and stewards” or even safety, just plain competitive sportsmanship which is (or was) the basis of F1. Bottom line, he’s lucky he’s still got a seat at Toro Rosso.

        1. Sportmaship? I think you obviously fail to realize the meaning of the word. Nothing Kvyat did was unsporting because it was not intentional.

    2. When I finally at least try to like Red Bull they do something like this… I don’t understand. In China he was a hero, one mistake (yes it was big mistake, but who doesn’t do something like this?) and he is dropped… Poor Kvyat. I hope he will outperform Max this weekend.

      1. @andycz There’s no F1 weekend this weekend!

        1. OK, this race weekend… Happy? :D

      2. As always, it’s not just this mistake. It was the drop the spilled the cup. I don’t think Kvyat deserves this harsh of a punishment, but on the other hand, I suspect Red Bull (as a whole) is trying out this as a new method.

        In other words: if Verstappen fails to perform, he could be back to Toro Rosso (or get picked up by another team) in 2017 and Kvyat or Sainz next to Ricciardo. That way it doesn’t seem that harsh at all. However, for a driver (apart from Ricciardo) normally it would mean you’ve made progress, being promoted and now safe and sound in a top team. But now you only know you have to keep proving yourself, being judged for every mistake you make and risking being put back to TR.

        1. As opposed to risk being out of F1?

      3. Am I the only one who remembers the hole season? Outperformed big time by Ricciardo in every quali (8-18)(5-15)(2-6)(6-8)
        Dumb misstakes in almost every race
        Lucky podium in China. Ricciardo lead the race when he got a puncture, ferrari had chrashes, Hamilton lost his nose

        and Max can only lose from now one, new team, new car and a much more experianced driver allong side him

      4. It’s not one mistake, Kvyat has been horrible in 3 of the last four races. Meanwhile Verstappen has been supreme since the start of the season. It may be harsh, but it is completely justified.

    3. A terrible knee-jerk reaction from a reactionary figure that has completely binned one driver’s career (himself promoted too soon) and compromised another by dropping him into a top-level team whilst still green. Makes you wonder – what if his collision with SAI in Australia was actually him into RIC?

      Poor Danil.

      1. That is shocking. Max is great driver but they could well wait for the end of the season to make this move, I think Kvyat can actually be sacked from Toro Rosso by the end of the season if he’s outperformed by Sainz Jr. and it’s a real possibility.

        1. Well, if that is the case this blunt surprise move of Red Bull is quite justified. Let’s face it: Verstappen clearly got the upper hand over Sainz since halfway last year. If Kvyat is now outperformed by Sainz than it appears Kvyat is the “worst” driver of all 4, no need to keep him in the top team than…

          1. We all know that F1 isn’t that simple.

            1. Exactly. Kvyat has to learn a different car now mid season and probably learn new working environment despite being there two years ago since mechanics and methods won’t be completely the same.
              Ves has the same but when you are young and enthusiastic and on the up you get bothered less, also i assume Red Bull will be all over him to help him adapt as well as possible. Kvyat will probably just be let alone to manage and his psychologically down after it too.

    4. Kvyat to Williams to replace Massa next year, you heard it here first.

      1. soundscape (@)
        5th May 2016, 8:50

        I like this guy.

      2. No, it will be Button that replaces Massa at Williams, when Massa retires end of 2016.
        Williams and Button has always had very good relations and Button would be perfect fit to them.
        Think also that Button would enjoy to get back to Williams to end his F1 career with them to close the full circle.

        1. It’d certainly be a step up for Button in terms of machinery. If I was a massive Massa fan I’d want to see it.

          But then again, 2017 is likely to be a dice roll.

      3. Felipinho Massa will replace Massa at Williams. He’s faster than Ricciardo, and as Max proves: if you’re fast enough, you’re old enough.
        Felipe’s the new Riccardo Patrese at the team, still has a good few years left in him.

        1. digitalrurouni
          5th May 2016, 13:03

          LOLOL! +10000

      4. Probably not because they have to lose Bottas for that. For Massa they probably look for Button. Also they have that Lynn kid that they will want to promote if he goes well.

        Mclaren is already finding hard to give Vandoorne a seat so they probably can’t take him ether.

        Ferrari won’t take him because it takes established names and is risk avert. If they take Grosjean for Raikonnen’s position then Kvyat can have a nice talk with Haas. He will be quite a decent option for them actually. Not much better they can take if they lose Grosjean. Unless Massa losses to Button in Williams and ends up talking to Haas.
        Then Kvyat chances go to hell there because a new team like that may like the experience guy to learn things from.

        He can also talk to Renault if Palmer never seems to find his mojo BUT Renault has the other Russian guy now and he probably comes with good money too unlike Kvyat and they have no reason to believe that Kvyat will be a major upgrade over Magnussen that has similar cv.

        Manor needs pay drivers.

        Force India already has two decent drivers that know the team.

        Sauber may not even be there and has no ability to take a non paying driver with big bucks.

        So, ironically his other chance to keep driving in F1 is the Red Bull team(Haas is the other depending on Massa). What i mean? If Ferrari take Riccardo then Red Bull will have no choice to take Kvyat back to the big team if he doesn’t lose to Sainz. That is why they probably kept him at Torro Rosso. To see if his the better choice between him and Sainz to have as a spare in case they lose Riccardo.

    5. Pretty brutal.

      No backsies.

      1. I don’t often lol, but to this I totally lol’d.

        Brutal, but that’s business. He’s not out on his ass, still has a seat, still racing.

        1. Well they cheated him, he has a contract with says he is official driver of RedBull, but because RedBull has 2 teams, they cheated him and can change team without further notification. I think f1 should really ban this, because they said they were 2 independent teams and bla bla bla, and now they can change drivers after 3 races? This shouldnt be allowed, no swaping if teams are independent, each team its drivers. If u have 2 teams this doesnt mean fair competition.

          1. They didn’t cheat him, they horizontally readjusted their driver platform.

            More bans, that’s exactly what F1 needs. He screwed up, he’s out, this isn’t the minor leagues, this is the pinnacle of motorsport. If Verstappen turns into the world beater people would have you believe, then golden move by RB, if not then Kyvat is still around, or Sainz gets a role. A driver is a component of the car, they spend millions squeezing 10th’s out of a lap time, why should they settle for a lesser driver.

            1. “they horizontally readjusted their driver platform.”

              What’s the difference between that and swapping teams?

            2. Nothing. That’s the point.

          2. Benetton did the same thing with Moreno back in 1991, swapping him to a customer ford team for some young guy. Forget his name.

            Actually no I don’t.

            It’s F1. Kvyat is no Ricciardo so if you have a fast kid why not promote him? And to be honest if red bull own two teams can’t they do whatever they want with their drivers?

      2. And how many races does Verstappen expect wipl be given to him to show he deserves that Red Bull? How long till we see Sainz in that car, or Kvyat again?

        1. *will be given*

        2. We won’t see either in the Red Bull seat unless RIC moves on. Horner and Marko have proven unable to competently manage two cocks (as in the bird) at the same time – if Vestappen works, they’ve got their Vettel Mk2 that they’ll ‘build the team around’ (to the detriment of Ricciardo, Sainz Jr and the rest, until Vestappen later moves on and the carousel starts again). If he doesn’t work, they’ll likely jettison him and Kvyat and promote more talent from below to save face.

          They still look like chumps in my eyes after Vettel cut & run and they picked Kvyat for RBR rather than the more experienced JEV (which they only did because they’d served the latter his notice and didn’t want to do the mea culpa).

      3. It is quite brutal, but completely logical. Red Bull are looking for the second Vettel or better. They want to be in that position ASAP, 2017 preferably, we saw how impatient they were when they were not in a position to win races and championships. Also, let’s not forget, that Russia was not the only time even this year when Kvyat cracked under pressure. I see in him what I saw in Webber after the 2010 Australian GP, someone who is very talented and will win races, but will never win the F1 championship and will crack under pressure. This decision might have also been avoided had RBR went for the clear number 1 and number 2 driver philosophy, but the problem with that is that Riccardo has not exactly dominanted Kvyat, and that shows maybe they can do better than Ricardo and so they had to go for Ves. The embarrassment of the last GP was a catalyst and excuse for something that had started to develop well before the RUS GP.

        Not sure what the reasoning was for them, but this is how I saw it.

        And it’s not like Kvyat is now jobless and homeless, he still has a very good F1 seat, he has an other opportunity to prove himself or improve and showcase himself to find an other seat in F1 or elsewhere.

        1. @mateuss Respectfully, I don’t know how you can say those things.

          I don’t believe that RBR are overly concerned with producing another Vettel. They have one in Ricciardo currently in the stable. He is very capable of winning a championship in a competitive Red Bull.

          I agree with others in the comments section; this is about holding onto Verstappen and making sure he doesn’t leave teams. We do not currently know what the situation is, but it’s possible that Verstappen and his backers wanted him to move up to the top team earlier rather than later while Kvyat is in a bad form.

          I also disagree with you (respectfully) about Kvyat and his job. His career in F1 is finished. He will never be picked up a top team ever again. Top teams are reserved for proven drivers, and he hasn’t cut it in the world of F1, as fair or unfair as it is.

          1. I don’t think they are sure about Ricciardo, they cannot be until he has a chance to win a title and takes it, thus far he has not had the chance and it is unknown if he can. Lets see what Verstappen does.

      4. Seems brutal but I don’t understand all the crying.
        Red Bull has messed with their drivers in the past a lot, and it’s not the first they’d crushed a promising career (remember Alguersuari? promoted in the middle of the season to TR with next to no preparation, and fired from the same team after a very good year).
        They’re not fighting for championships and Verstappen seems a more promising lot than Kvyat in the long run. Add to that they need to secure Verstappen contract extension’s and it all makes sense.

        Red Bull don’t want to be in F1, they want to win. They were vocal about Renault to get a better engine. They now demote Kvyat to secure Verstappen’s future services. They’ve always acted this way, fairness to drivers as nothing to do here.

        1. Alguersuari was harsh…

          … Frankly, I hate the Red Bull attitude. It’s not better than other manufacturers who will leave if they don’t get success.

          Williams, Sauber, Mclaren, Ferrari. Those are the foundations of F1.

      5. Brutal but unless Red-Bull produce a car comfortably faster than their rivals like between 2010-2013 than they need the best drivers available to maximise the cars results. In Riccardio they have one potential superstar who trounced Vettel in 2014 and Kyvat clearly does not have the speed or consistency of either Riccardio but Max potentially does.

        The one really interesting issue is if Max continues to act like a baby now he is in the big boy car – how long will Red-Bull put up with his tantrums.

    6. Is it only for Spain or for the rest of the season?

      1. From words what Tost says… most likely till the end of 2016.

        1. Rumours are Verstappen also signed a new contract till the end of 2019.

      2. sunny stivala
        5th May 2016, 15:49

        on twitter a big brawl between the Verstappen’s and Tost is being reported as having happened.

    7. That was quick. Man everything Verstappen touches turns to gold doesn’t it?
      I feel bad for Kvyat but to be honest I’m really starting to think he’s not on Ricciardo’s level. Keeping in mind he is much younger (although should we be talking about age in these circumstances).

      Hope Kvyat gets another chance but that what a fight we are going to have at Red Bull in Spain!

      1. From Hero to fighting for his future in f1, who could of possibly thought this watching kvyat on the podium in china in..driver of the day…wonder how Putin feels about it

        1. Russia’s president doesn’t care about F1 and Kvyat at all. Kvyat lived his whole life in Italy and can’t be called a Russian.

          1. Putin like all pollies does care about this!!

            1. Not about some italian guy with russian passport!

            2. OMG the bloke is a Russian as vodka!!!

            3. Vodka is not Russian, it’s Polish. FAIL

          2. @Kamil ”Kvyat lived his whole life in Italy” – Wrong, as far as I know he (along with his family) moved to Italy in his early teens (at the age of 12 or 13 something like that).

            1. Nob!!

            2. This is a friendly site for people who love F1.

      2. That was brutal. Even if I was angry because he ended Vettel’s race. He doesn’t deserve this for one mistake

        1. Sander (@)
          5th May 2016, 8:58

          Surely this is not based on one mistake…

          1. Sorry for that. I think it’s to keep verstappen too

    8. Kevin (@illustrious)
      5th May 2016, 8:42

      I’m pretty sure there was a clause in the Red Bull contract which stated that under no circumstances are you to hit a former driver of the team. Three times no less in the space of two races.

      1. @illustrious He didn’t hit Vettel – he just happened to pass him on a corner. Vettel over-reacted, first by hitting Kimi then secondly by shouting in the room of awkwardness.

        1. * in China

      2. duncan idaho
        6th May 2016, 0:11

        Maybe it’s long term strategy for the post Tifoso period.

      3. He hit Ric?

    9. Red Bull giveth, Red Bull taketh away.

      I am more disappointed for Kvyat than I am concerned about whether it’s too early for Verstappen to be promoted. I have no doubts about Verstappen’s readiness, or his ability to drive for a ‘top’ team such as Red Bull. He will do a very good job – I am sure.

      However, to have made such a move like this feels wrong. It’s almost as if the team were secretly hoping for an ‘excuse’ to promote Verstappen at the expense of Kvyat and I don’t believe it’s at all justified to have booted Daniil out of the ‘A-team’ already.

      Yes, Kyvat made two big errors in two corners in Russia. He deserved his criticism and he deserved to be given a stern talking to by the team, but did he really deserve to lose his seat over this? Especially after a Driver of the Day winning performance in China that resulted in a podium? I don’t believe so.

      It’s obvious that Max is an outstanding talent. The fact he is so young means he will undoubtedly continue to grow as a driver and his skill ceiling is likely to be incredibly high. I am concerned about his temperament and maturity after his outbursts in Melbourne. I hope he does well in this new opportunity, but I fear that if his confidence turns to arrogance, he might well find himself turning heel in the eyes of many fans.

      1. Especially after a Driver of the Day winning performance in China that resulted in a podium?

        The RB had the pace in China. His was a lucky podium out of a move that was borderline. He tried rushing in again and torpedoed Vettel.

        I think the bosses know more than us fans who watch the show on TV.

        1. Yes, hence the amazing decision making of the Strategy Group.

          1. Brutal. XD

        2. The team did not believe that Kvyat did a great job in China

      2. YEs!!! I agree Will he has been lucky with some clumsy moves this year and needs to Mature big time.

      3. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
        5th May 2016, 9:34

        If anything @willwood, you would say that being promoted to a championship-winning team at the start of his second season would only make Max more arrogant, although given Kvyat’s drives in Bahrain and China he cannot say he has got the seat because Kvyat has been underperforming. You also fear that the marketability of the teenage sensation versus an archetypal brusk Russian has been a factor.

        I think this in-season swap is an unnecessarily corrosive gambit. STR are now fielding a driver that has been deposed and a driver that has been overlooked. And given that Marko has now made his thoughts on Kvyat clear, how long will it be before Gasly is in that STR seat? What happens if Ricciardo goes to Ferrari? Would they consider promoting Daniil again? I just looks to be a hurried and generally unnecessary decision.

        1. @william-brierty What, like the first time they promoted Danil too early, rather than do the right thing and promote JEV (who they’d already issued a P45 to)?

          1. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
            5th May 2016, 11:34

            @optimaximal I think Sainz and Verstappen have done a good job of justifying JEV’s P45, but yeah, it is feasible that Jean could have done a splendid job at Red Bull alongside Ricciardo (who he was more than a match for at STR), and with an extra season in the junior formulas, Verstappen could have been promoted to STR in place of the loser of Kvyat vs Sainz. At least McLaren now have a rival for the title of “Most Mismanagemed Junior Programme”.

            1. Why is that: for making choices among their juniors? At least they choose. I don’t have a clue why other teams have Junior programmes given the fact hardly any of them ever make it to their team anyway.

            2. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
              6th May 2016, 11:03

              @mosquito – It is largely because Marko tends to form partisan objections/alliances towards drivers. JEV, for example, fell victim to Marko’s enmity, so whilst he could have ascended to Red Bull alongside Ricciardo and be doing an excellent job (on the basis of how well he compared to Daniel at Toro Rosso), he is testing anonymously for Ferrari. His stance on Mark Webber is well-documented, and even pursued a corrosive, adversarial line even when Mark was comparing well to Vettel in the first two years of their partnership.

              It is especially intriguing that Marko ramped up his anti-Webber rhetoric whilst Mark was edging Seb on pure performance in the 2010 season. By contrast, Verstappen has received perhaps the most outstanding team endorsement in F1 history, with Max’s preliminary F3 contact with Red Bull having morphed into a topline factory drive in much less than two years. Of course, both Verstappen and Vettel have backed themselves up with stunning on-track performances, but was JEV not performing? Was Kvyat not performing? Has Sainz, who has never received anything like Verstappen’s backing from Marko (and was effectively on the scrapheap before Vettel’s exit to Ferrari freed up a seat), not been performing?

              Unfortunately, there is not a fully linear relationship between Marko’s opinion of a driver and how well that driver is performing.

        2. @willwood @william-brierty I have to agree, this is going to make Max more arrogant, not less. He has faced literally no adversity in his rapid parachuting through the ranks. Now he is in a Red Bull that is not quite a race winner he will be expected to perform, if not immediately, certainly by the end of this season and definitely in the next. If things don’t go his way he will have to start facing pressure and criticism the likes of which he has never faced which will probably result in yet more radio outbursts (which will probably make what we saw in Melbourne will look like a Sunday School picnic in comparison).

          1. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
            5th May 2016, 12:32

            @geemac Like young Schumi, he has the potential to be quite a divisive character. He knows he’s as good as they come – he’s gone from a karter to topline F1 in just over two years – and I think this can lead him to look for fault in others when things go wrong. Ricciardo however, is an especially good tutor in getting the balance right between self-confidence and arrogance. I’m sure Max will be fine – unlike every other racing driver in history he certainly doesn’t need to worry about ever getting the opportunity to win a championship.

      4. @willwood Pro wrestling reference lol :D
        Is Hamilton a heel, I wonder?

        1. @wsrgo I don’t care for wrassling but Hamilton couldn’t be less of a stage-managed heel if he tried. Given he owns most of the records he’s eligible for, he just wants to win races.

          1. @optimaximal But he’s still so widely hated, and loved. John Cena-esque :P

    10. jack (@jackobite)
      5th May 2016, 8:45

      The torpedo is dead!
      All hail the new king Max,
      Knee jerk reaction typical of Red Bull,
      I wont miss DK much but I did roar out the biggest laugh when he smacked Seb up the rear for the second time.

    11. Beautiful! Hope Max grasps the opportunity and makes Kvyat stay put at STR.

      RBR have shown themselves to be ruthless. Results or nothing. A lucky podium isn’t going to overshadow his poor performance this year.

    12. The guy just got a podium!? This is madness, hugely unfair.

    13. This is pretty disgusting. Vettel is going to catch backlash for this too, remember his trip to the RB pit wall.

      Also can’t wait for the endless twitter virtue signalling from the middle England F1 press corp as if there wasn’t enough of that over the Mercedes thing. :rolleyes:

      1. lockup (@)
        5th May 2016, 9:34

        I reckon Vettel deserves some backlash, personally. He completely overreacted in China to save his own skin, and now did something a bit similar after having a huge lift in a very foolish place instead of just going round the outside of Perez like Verstapppen – who shot past looking like he’d have struggled to slow in time too.

        Then as you say the word with Horner that looks a bit vindictive now.

        I remember a young Seb apologising after colliding with Kubica in Oz 2009, and regretting it when he found that attracted the blame onto himself. He learned that lesson a bit too well, it seems.

        1. @lockup Vettek slowed because he picked up a puncture after the first collision.

          1. @wsrgo No he didn’t. He was just checking to see how the car would handle, and so lifted off mid-corner in a flat out quick, long left-hander on the racing line with cars right behind him.

            1. “He was just checking to see how the car would handle”
              Vettel said that in an interview after the crash. And the car is likely to be damaged
              due to a collision in the first corner.

            2. I haven’t won as many championships as Sebastian, but may I suggest that wasn’t the brightest thing he’s ever done in a racing car.

              That’s the kind of action that should be earning reprimands – maybe Lewis should get onto this case – at least he would get some attention.

          2. lockup (@)
            5th May 2016, 10:39

            Well he matched or beat Kvyat for traction out of T2 @wsrgo, which he could not have done without 2 fully inflated rear tyres. They looked fine on Kyvat’s onboard too. Did the team say he had a puncture?

            1. @lockup @wsrgo @mashiat
              I think Vettel lifted because he thought Perez was about to lose his rear and slide. He wasn’t sure which way so he tried to give himself room to react. Remember how Grosjean lost control there one year (2015?) in a Lotus and flew into the wall? Look at Vettel’s onboard and look closely at what Perez’s car is doing right before Kvyat hits Vettel in turn 3.

        2. @lockup Vettel has nothing to do with this entire story and it isn’t at all like he suggested this to Horner. All of this is another strange twit of thoughts from Helmut Mark. Hamilton slowed mid corner too and nobody is pointing that out to begin with. Perez ahead of both world champions was slowing and that resulted in their reaction. Please don’t act like Vettel is even remotely responsible for Kvyat hitting him in the rear.

          1. @xtwl Kvyat was unsighted on Perez because he was following Vettel – I know the driver that does the rear-ending has to accept responsibility (which he did) but it’s hardly that clear cut. Vettel lifted, in-traffic, on a full throttle corner.

          2. lockup (@)
            5th May 2016, 11:43

            I can’t agree @xtwl. Seb certainly helped to create a climate of blame around Kvyat. Kvyat took a perfectly open gap in China and didn’t touch anyone. He took it fast and decisively enough so that Vettel wouldn’t turn in on him, and it would never have been seen as anything but a great move if Seb hadn’t behaved as he did.

            Hamilton was not in play at all in Sochi, safely on the inside, he has nothing to do with it. As @optimaximal says it was a full-throttle corner early on Lap1 with cars bunched, so of course for Vettel to suddenly go from maximum acceleration to a full lift in the middle of the track was asking for trouble. There was space on the outside of Perez as Max showed. Then for a 4xWDC, with all his status, to be shouting and swearing about a junior driver has an effect too. Add the complaint to Horner and it all is a bit unattractive, sorry. Bullying really, to save his own skin after driving that reminded me of Brazil T4 2012.

            1. lockup (@)
              5th May 2016, 13:42

              Hmmm it says “seemingly” @wsrgo. Not confirmed by the team. I reckon he just had a lift to check things out and/or see what Perez’ car was going to do as @mashiat and @andrewsf1 suggest. So I don’t think there was a puncture for Kvyat to see.

            2. @lockup Vettel has mentioned not knowing if he had damage or not as well as reacting to what Perez (puncture) and Hamilton (lifted due to Perez) were doing, so Hamilton was a factor for Vettel.

              I don’t think “to suddenly go from maximum acceleration to a full lift” is an accurate description of what happened, given Vettel stayed level with Hamilton who was not going at full speed (having recently rejoined the circuit) then Vettel can not have been at “maximum acceleration”, he also can not have lifted fully either.

              When he swore on the radio (a natural reaction after being hit twice and being out of the race, plus all the adrenaline at the start of a race) he did not know which driver had hit him, junior or senior driver. He spoke to Horner to ask him to have a word with Kvyat, his comments to the media were restrained but clearly show he felt Kvyat was overdriving, trying to do too much on the first lap. Ricciardo was also critical of Kvyat in his interviews after the race, do you think that was wrong as well?.

              I don’t see anything wrong with either of these actions (or Ricciardo’s comments), and it certainly was not bullying.

            3. Vettel was right in China – only his fast reaction prevented him from being torpedoed by Kvyat and because Vettels evasive manuevre caused the other problems he was angry with Kvyat afterwards. If all drivers went for any gap opening, then we would have so few cars finishing the races that all finishers would get points. Especially at the race start, You can’t go for any gap, and You can’t shut the door. And China was sort of leading up to Kvyats torpedo drive in Russia, while he deliberately chose not to listen to the critic, but wanted to prove a point, that he could do something similar to Ferrari again. That kind of driving only goes well so and so many times – sooner or later it goes wrong. Despite this demotion I still fear that Kvyat will not learn before he causes a big crash, where he gets a big punch as well and feels the G-forces heavily on his body. It is a build up similar to the situation before Grosjean made his big crash at Spa in 2012. Back then it was the seventh incident in the opening of a race Grosjean was involved in that year. After this he finally adjusted.

            4. lockup (@)
              5th May 2016, 20:12

              I just watched the replays again @anon. Vettel is actually changing down before he gets hit! He certainly does accelerate full bore, till he’s starting to pass Hamilton then he lifts and drops two gears then bang. There was half the track available to Perez’s right plus the runoff the other side of the blue line.

              Yes Seb felt he had a reason to slow, but it was an error – the wrong thing to do in the situation with the whole pack behind him.

              Afaik Ricciardo commented on the collision at T2, which of course was Kvyat’s fault.

            5. @Lockup that is a nonsense and You know it…

          3. Agreed.

      2. Mark (@melmgreen)
        5th May 2016, 14:53

        Yeah. Vettels fault…

        1. @lockup So Seb helped create a climate of blame toward DK, but there’s no way LH using the term ‘for no apparent reason’ spurred the conspiracy theorists on regarding his reliability woes?

          1. lockup (@)
            6th May 2016, 9:18

            Yes and no @robbie. Is there a connection? Anyway Yes about Vettel.

            It depends how much we read into those four words of Hamilton’s. They were unwise, and he regretted them. For me they were said in the context of rubbishing the conspiracy theory and slipped out because he resented having his team broken up. That’s what they mean.

            As you slide along the scale towards making the conspiracy nonsense his fault then I begin to disagree, because the theory makes no sense and therefore the lunacy exists independently of Lewis Hamilton.

            Please don’t reply with post starting “So…” :)

            1. @lockup I think I’ve made it clear that the conspiracy theorists were out there already and his 4 words only fed them a meal. I’ve never tried to claim the nonsense is his fault. He just added to it by puttIng fuel to the fire.

            2. lockup (@)
              6th May 2016, 11:41

              Okay @robbie, IMO anyone who used his words to advance their theory was clearly a lunatic already. I guess we are separated by a nuance?

              This time :)

    14. WOW! Saw it in the roundup but wasnt expecting them to actually do it! I guess Vettels word in Horner’s ear after the incident helped :-P Sad for Kvyat but at the same time I’m really looking forward to seeing Max in the Redbull! His dad said at the start of the season they wanted him in a top seen soon lol.

    15. Just when you think you have seen everything, F1 throws something like this at you…

      1. I’m glad Button weighed in on this. As a senior figure, and a driver who made it to F1 young, he is well placed to comment.

        1. lockup (@)
          5th May 2016, 9:36


        2. Martijn (@)
          5th May 2016, 11:09

          The Buttons of this world should consider making room for new talent. They are part of the challenge teams face with their talents. Massa dito.

    16. It will be very interesting to watch the new team mate battles.

      Even though it is a very painful fall for Kvyat, it is still better than being thrown out of F1 completely. Toro Rosso cars have so far been quick and definitely capable of reaching Q3 and scoring points regularly so Kvyat can still get some good results and prove that he deserves to stay in F1. Many seats will be available for 2017 so perhaps this is not the worst moment to lose a top seat.

      1. @girts Perhaps, but do you see Kvyat getting a seat with another top team in the future? I’m not talking in the near future – I mean, his career as a whole is finished. Do you see Kvyat ever driving for Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren (in the future) ever? His remaining years in F1 will be in mediocre teams.

        It’s very brutal, and perhaps very unfair. It’s very ‘Formula 1’.

        1. @crunch Well, let us say that is very unlikely but not impossible. A good example is Heinz-Harald Frentzen, who was not very far from becoming world champion with Jordan in 1999 after being dropped by Williams just one year before that. Of course, Jordan was not really a top team. I think it is still possible that Kvyat shows he is good enough for an ‘almost top’ team, then joins Williams or Renault next year or later and then gets a car that is capable of winning some races at some point. For sure, your scenario is much much more likely but, as Tom Daley has said, “what’s worth going for in this life that doesn’t seem impossible?”

          1. @girts In those 17 years from ´99 till today, the number of driver-seats (excluding pure pay-driver seats) has gone down significantly, while at the same time drivers begin their careers earlier and may retire later. That does result in a far harsher battle for those seats, less second chances, more drivers losing their careers early (and often with a feel of unfairness about it). I do highly dislike the driver market being that way and would very much prefer if there were 6-10 more midfield spots at the level of Williams or Force India, where the likes of JEV or (next year) Kvyat should race and maybe (hopefully) develop and show themselves and get up again, but those spots just aren´t there. So it is unfortunately highly likely that @crunch is even to optimistic. Where should the “years in mediocre teams” happen?

        2. Button what was seen as a top seat in 2000 (Williams won the title 3 yrs earlier) and then Honda in 2004 (2nd best behind the ridiculous Schumi Ferrari combo. Finally got another chance with McLaren.

    17. I had to read this twice, I couldn’t quite believe it.

      Sainz vs Kvyat, I honestly think Sainz will come out on top during the remainder of the season.

      1. @lockwste, at least in the first few races Sainz may come up top. Kvyat would need a while to get used to the new car.

    18. soundscape (@)
      5th May 2016, 8:53

      /puts conspiracy hat on…

      Were RBR potentially just waiting for any old excuse to get VES in the parent team? And if so, was it always going to be KYV to get the chop, or was it whoever stuffed up first?

      1. soundscape (@)
        5th May 2016, 8:53


      2. Seems so, clearly they had given it a lot of thought already.

      3. @soundscape no conspiracies needed. It is no secret that we wouldn’t have seen Verstappen in a torro rosso next year anyway. The best was to secure him in the top team as soon as possible. Now that the RB’s WCC position is put in jeopardy they’ve had a typical knee jerk reaction.

    19. Gavin Campbell
      5th May 2016, 8:54

      While Verstappen will jump at the chance to drive for the big boys team I can’t help but feel this is a bad idea all round.

      Too much of Verstappen will be expected in a team and car he has not had a chance to acclamitise too and the same for Kyvatt parachuted back to Toro Rosso. But frankly its all a bit bizzare, unless there were other suitors for Max like the rumours that are out there and its all a PR exercise.

      Also I hope if McLaren don’t promote (or get a B-Team) the same bun fight will occur for Stoffel Vandoorne because it would be criminal for him not to get a seat in 2017 (its near criminal he’s not racing in 2016!)

    20. This is awful treatment of Kvyat, feel very sorry for him. I actually can’t quite believe this, but after all it is red bull so I guess we shouldn’t be so surprised.

    21. Hmmmmmmm. This is a thinker.

    22. Adam (@rocketpanda)
      5th May 2016, 8:59

      Wow I didn’t expect this to happen.

      Harsh, but then again Red Bull do have the flexibility to do it. They’re not fighting for the championship, so why not? I don’t think Kvyat necessarily deserved a ‘demotion’, nor Verstappen a ‘promotion’, but it’ll be an interesting change.

      That said I do feel bad for Kvyat now, as Red Bull are known to be a bit… cold, with drivers – I’d be surprised if he manages to get his hands on that Red Bull again. I know a lot of people here seem to love Verstappen but personally I’m not that keen.

      I tend to think Kvyat was promoted too early – could have done with another year at Toro Rosso anyway. He’s very good but a little scrappy – flaps under pressure.

      1. Agree !!!Adam he is poor under pressure the wet Russian gp last year springs to mind.

        1. @nosehair Assuming you mean the wet United States GP, then that’s true. He scuffed multiple chances to take the lead from Rosberg, then later crashed out. Ricciardo took the lead and pulled away before the weather changed.

    23. I want Putin in the RB he is a natural sportsman!!!!

    24. Marko might wake up with a horse’s head in his bed!!!

    25. petebaldwin (@)
      5th May 2016, 9:07

      Kvyat isnt as good as Max so its good for Red Bull and good for F1 but its still pretty brutal!!

    26. “The Russian driver, who is in his third season of F1, equalled the best result of his career to date at the previous round in China where he finished second.”

      @keithcollantine Didn’t he finish 3rd?

      There were rumours flying, but I didn’t really believe they would actually do it, all in all, this seems an extremely harsh decision from Red Bull.

    27. TeamOrders
      5th May 2016, 9:08

      This is not about DK, it’s about red bull pitting MV against DR to see just how good he is before they negotiate a new contract.

      1. Maybe it is. Doesn’t mean you can make Kvyat a pawn in their game. Kvyat might not have been absolutely on it for the 1st two races, but he did a great job in China, and secured their only podium this year. Horner praised the China performance himself. He has out scored their star driver in 2015 despite being a rookie in the RB squad. I think the guy has proved his right to be in the Red Bull squad at least till the end of 2016.

        This looks like Helmut Marko’s games to me. He has romantic feelings for Max, just like he did for his first love, Seb. Max cried like a little baby in Australia when his team messed up his pitstop timing and drove like a lunatic for the rest of the race. Max hasn’t convincingly proved himself against Carlos yet, but why would that matter? As long as he floats Marko’s boat, it’s all that matters. Kvyat on the other hand put in a stellar performance in China, and had a couple of brain fade moments on the opening lap of Russia, and suddenly, Kvyat was demoted to Toro Rosso for ‘regaining his form’ ?!?!?!?

        Maybe Marko got hurt when Sebastian’s race was affected in China and Russia. And the ridiculous move by Seb of going to the Red Bull garage to have words with Horner and Marko on Kvyat’s driving…. I guess that’s the typical Vettel behaviour that won him his adulation from the fans during the Red Bull era.

        It’s a shameful move on Red Bull’s part to replace him stating his form or his performance in Russia as an excuse. If they want to give Max an early chance, and one driver has to pay the price, just say so. There’s no need to affect another driver’s confidence by suddenly saying he’s not good enough.

        I’m really gutted for Kvyat. There’s no way he deserved to be dumped after 4 races this year. I’m going to be rooting for him for the rest of the season. Hope he outperforms the teenage ‘sensation’ in Barcelona and finds another gear when his back is against the wall.

        1. It’s actually Kvyat who called Vettel on his mobile phone to come to the red bull garage .People only saw Vettel walking to the red bull garage but he had been invited by Kvyat so that he could apologise .

          1. What? Vettel went to the Red Bull pit wall during the race, whilst Kvyat was still running.

            1. @optimaximal @todfod

              You’re really implying Vettel went to Horner to have Kvyat demoted?! Get real son.

              “Max hasn’t convincingly proved himself against Carlos yet”

              Yes he has. So much so that he has been linked to Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull and is now in the Red Bull. Sainz hasn’t been linked to any of the top teams yet. Plain and simple. How many times have we seen Mercedes flirt with Verstappen? How many times have we seen Mercedes display even the slightest interest in Sainz? Nuff said.

          2. Haha! Are you for real?

            1. Another Conspiracy…aaaaaaah.

        2. “Max hasn’t convincingly proved himself against Carlos yet”
          Watch the stats from China:
          1. Max was more then 10 sec behind Carlos: he overtook him in the race and more
          2. Max did 4 more rounds on 2 sets of Soft Tire then Carlos
          3. Max overtook Massa (or was it Bottas) in 1 turn: it took Carlos 3.
          Then there is qualifying. They are almost equal there but still Max ends up ahead every time.
          Scoring points: ….

          1. Red Bull have all the data and they chose Max so to the people that count he has proved himself.

    28. It does makes sense. Both Verstappen and Sainz will now have a proper benchmark; we’ll finally discover how good they are.

      1. Completely agree with you Patrick. Halfway this season when both Kvyat and Verstappen should be used to their new car, than we will see what happens. I just hope the serious string of bad luck for Sainz ends.

    29. Nothing to do with Kvyat’s performances really, although it’s incredibly unfair. It’s all to do with keeping their golden boy and getting him integrated in the team ready for next year. This seems to be the only way to ensure he doesn’t leave for Merc or Ferrari next season and frankly I can’t blame RBR for wanting to keep him, he’s been incredible this season as he was half of last.

      1. Exactly. Right on target.

        I believe we are focusing on Kvyat and he’s just an excuse. Kimi’s been told he will not continue. He clearly talekd about it last week. Ferrari need a driver that can put pressure on Vettel…as they are under BRUTAL pressure themselves as a team. They contacted MV’s management….they talked to RB management….there you are.

        No coincidence here, I’m afraid. And it has nothing to do with DK.

        My two cents: MV is NOT ready. But that’s just my opinion.

        Have a good one,

        1. You could well be right on that. Getting MV into the senior team now, would head off the risk of losing him to Ferrari after Red Bull taking the risk in bringing him into F1 when they did…

          With regard to giving DK the boot back to Torro Rosso… On the outside it appears very harsh, but, we don’t know all the reasons, we can just see the most overt, that, in Sochi he nearly took out himself and his team mate (on the first crash), then regardless of the reason, he slammed into the back of Vettel a second time a few moments later. Keeping in mind that after the first impact, he had very little of his front wing left, he should have been very aware that the handling aspects of his car, including braking, would be severely affected. Seb may have slowed slightly prior to the 2nd contact, but, he was still going at the speed of the car right beside him.

    30. Personally I hate the comparisons with Jos, Max is far more developed and mature, but he’s making the same mistake his father made imo. Then again I think Max is good enough to beat Ricciardo. So, we’ll see.

      1. When they announced Max was moving on from karting, Jos explicitly said they didn’t want to follow the path he had followed; only two years of junior open wheelers, then to a top F1 team. Jos was 21 when he made his debut at Benetton, Max will be driving a Red Bull, arguably a better team than Benetton in 1994, at age 18.

        Max has been doing great so far. But looking at Kvyat and Vergne, there sometimes is no indication in what Marko will do next. The man was a great sportscar driver but I think nobody under 50 now will remember him like that..

        1. Exactly. I’m worried, really. Max is better than Jos but the pitfalls remain.

        2. Benetton was a title winning team in 94 Red Bull currently are not.

    31. Joao (@johnmilk)
      5th May 2016, 9:17

      Kvyat gets mad because he goes one step down the ladder. Sainz will be mad because he didn’t get the promotion. So now STR have two unsatisfied drivers.

      If the idea was to make outrageous decisions bin the guy and bring da Costa in. Just saying

      1. @johnmilk Make that three unsatisfied drivers. I reckon Ricciardo will be just as happy with Verstappen’s promotion as Webber was with Vettel’s back in 2009.

    32. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
      5th May 2016, 9:18

      This is appalling, and affirms that Marko’s corrosive methodology is just as likely to ruin the careers of great young drivers as give them opportunities. Unfortunately, given Kvyat’s excellent drives in both Bahrain and China, it confirms that Marko has been looking for an excuse to depose Daniil, and probably confirms that the marketability of a teenage sensation versus a brusk Russian is pertinent in this case.

      I will always applaud when tremendous young drivers get the opportunities they deserve, but given that Max was still developing and that Daniil was performing excellently, this needn’t have been at Kvyat’s cost. I certainly don’t envisage Verstappen markedly improving upon Daniil’s performances in the short-term.

    33. Gee Red bull were a bit hard on Kvyat

      1. Not as hard as Torpedo Moscow was on Vettel. Well deserved demotion.

    34. I think Kvyat will take Jensen Mutton’s drive after Jense falls asleep at the wheel.

    35. Firstly, it was a shocker for me to read this…you don’t expect such stories in the middle of the season. Secondly, I really feel bad for Kyvat. I felt that fans, media and his own team were a touch too harsh for his mistake(s) in Russia and it escalated more due to the discussions from China.

      I agree with @willwood that it almost seems like RBR was looking for an opportunity to replace DK with MV and give him THE opportunity before any other big teams come smelling for his talent and DK was a mere scapegoat ready to be butchered even at the slightest error….remember Hungary 2015 when his own team did not appreciate his drive to the podium.

      I fear that’ll be the end of DK’s RBR career and he might be slowly pushed out of Red Bull program all together by the end of the year. Talent wasted!

      1. Completely agree Neel Jani, that was my feeling as well. RB is worried that Max will get picked up by another team. I must say Daniil has been very sloppy, hitting Vettel 3 times in 2 races.

    36. They did not kick Kvyat for his poor performance. But because RBR management was scared that fued with Sainz might force Verstappan to look for other options like Ferrari and he may move there or in general some other team like Ferrari might get to him first with race seat.

    37. I think that was harsh but I’m not sure if Red Bull took this decision after analyzing their data, maybe they concluded that Kvyat did this on purpose.

    38. Verstappen is another hot head who will crush into someone else… then what?

      1. Yeah, because that’s what he’s been doing so far….

        The only incident people will refer to now is Australia, for which Verstappen has already said it was his mistake to come into the pits too early. Big whoop. And he didn’t crash Sainz off. Sainz was doing everything to keep Verstappen behind at the cost of more points. Australia was as much a poor showing of Sainz as it was of Verstappen.
        Bahrain showed Verstappen can be mature and civil, duking it out with Sainz after the start and passing him despite Sainz’ best efforts to block Verstappen’s every attempt. Again costing Sainz more that it should have.
        In China and Russia Sainz was nowhere near Verstappen in terms of race pace.

    39. Didn’t really expect that.. not this soon.

    40. Feel this is more about Max than Kvyat. Jos has already been threatening to get his son a Merc/Ferrari deal next year.
      Kvyat just gave them a reason to finally pull the plug in Sochi.

    41. I bet Webber is relieved that he wasn’t treated the same when he and Vettel had their infamous tangles

    42. That’s just crazy ! He did such a good race last time, they all crash from time to time !

    43. Poorer feedback to engineers.
      Unable to make the tyres last as long.
      Unable to fine tune and gain performance during the 3 qualifying periods.
      Not as composed under pressure.
      Too many errors.

      All the above points when compared to RIC.

      The recent incident was just the straw that broke the camel’s back.

      It’s that simple.

      1. Agreed. Overall the guy simply didn’t have it. So why should Red Bull wait further?
        This way they can also see how well Verstappen truly is before e.g. signing the young guy up for a longer term contract in their top-team. Ricciardo is also at flight-risk, if a top team goes shopping for him for 2017, so Red Bull need backup plan. If Ricciardo himself do want the specific Ferrari seat, then I think though he will have to stay put for another year more, as don’t think Vettel will agree to get Ricciardo as teammate, considering last time around at Red Bull…

    44. The Blade Runner (@)
      5th May 2016, 9:53

      Super, super brutal. Shockingly so.

      I guess you can look at it 2 ways though:

      1. It’s a ridiculously harsh decision – especially given his recent podium – and could potentially destroy the fledgling career of a real talent;


      2. Red Bull are quite rightly putting sentiment to one side and are now showing all the hallmarks of a team that means business and that will soon be competing with Mercedes for the Championship.

    45. The comparison beween the new teammates on both teams is going to be great to watch! I expect that they wil now be more closley matched. Both DAI & VES were faster then KVI & SAI.

    46. 2016 WDC Points:
      Verstappen: 13
      Kvyat: 21

      1. jack (@jackobite)
        5th May 2016, 10:22

        Lol well ok Max 13 Kvyat 21,
        lets look again in 3 races.
        @Max use this part of the season to get into a decent team.

        1. DK presumably in a better car though, no?

      2. They would have been tied had Max not retired from 6th in Russia

    47. Willem Cecchi (@)
      5th May 2016, 10:22

      Move has got Marko written all over it. However, VES will definitely step up to the plate and give RIC a go. To be fair, KVY just has not done a good enough job over the last year and a bit.

      1. Yeah despite beating Riciardo…

        But he never quite showed more skill.

    48. Premature move for Verstappen, Ricciardo will destroy his spirit.

    49. “We’ve realized Verstappen is better than Kvyat but our next in succession (Gasly) isn’t so we’re kicking him out of the team kindly.”

    50. I don’t think RedBull have been too harsh. After VET, it would be natural for them to expect better off their drivers. While RIC showed he was up for the task, KVY couldn’t. Keeps drivers from being complacent too.

      By the way, KVY goes back in the RB12 after Spain ??

      1. They are staying put till the end of the season. Kvy in STR and Ves in RBR.


    51. What I find odd is that Kvyat has had a much better start to the season than last year. After 4 rounds last year he had 4 points, this year its 21.

      In my honest opinion this is such an odd situation. Red Bull have had their fair share of driver drama but never took actions as drastic as this. They’ve brought in and ended many drivers in F1, but compared to their actions after Fuji 2008, Turkey 2010, or Malaysia 2013, this seems very heavy..

    52. Pure politics to stop Max defecting to Ferrari, (or another top team). Its a move that shows that Red Bull have no scruples…

    53. I think this reveals how much they care about Sebastian. Maybe they wont him back?! Or, Danill was to slow to get Lewis at least once. Max practiced last year how to do it in Monaco. Take care Lewis I smell conspiracy here!

    54. Incredibly harsh on Kvyat. Hope he comes back strong in the TR.

      But in a way, it is good as it will help us fans evaluate Sainz and Verstappen both. Till now, the two youngsters have been paired only against each other. There has been speculation too about how good the Toro Rosso under James Key actually is. Mercedes says they have the weakest engine, yet both the youngsters seem to be doing very well.
      It became very speculative to appropriate the success in between the car and the drivers. With this move, it will indeed become clearer as to where both Sainz and Verstappen stand. I reckon Mercedes and Ferrari will be happy with finding more information on their Chosen One as well.

    55. I was going to say I could imagine this happening during the season but kept quiet as it sounded a little ridiculous in my mind but they have only gone and done it. Pressure was on to secure Verstappen they must see him as having much more potential so although Torpedo Moscow seemed ok he’s gone.

    56. Red Bull have had this problem coming for a while. With 4 great drivers and only 2 seats in the top team, something big would have to happen. If Verstappen wasn’t promoted to RB, it was inevitable that he would be picked up by another team. Sainz would be good in Toro Rosso, but unfortunately I can’t see him being picked up by anyone else (A future in Formula E like Vergne seems the most likely). They need an excuse to get Verstappen in the Red Bull. Kvyat had a particularly bad weekend in Russia. Out he goes.

      What will be interesting is what happens next. Is this swap going to be for the rest of the season, or just for the next few races, with Kvyat back in for Canada?

    57. Terrible

    58. Makes me wonder with this system say a Red Bull driver was going for the championship but at a track difficult to pass on had a 10 place penalty for an engine change they move him to Torro Rosso for 1 race to get more points then back to Red Bull after the engine penalty has been served by the Torro Rosso driver covering the Red Bull seat for 1 race?

    59. Red Bull has a great junior program no doubt about it. But as it is, it’s also kind of overcrowded which causes moves like this.

      Verstappen is a great prospect who should be able to battle for the titles some day. But he now risks of career stalling early if he doesn’t have success, even though I think someone else would be ready to snap him in that case.

      Kvyat has shown he deserves to be in F1, but Red Bull is a bit too good team for him now. Hopefully he will get a spot in some other teams, although it hasn’t been easy for those who have been dropped from the Red Bull program.

    60. I find this a very harsh dicision, although redbull isnt a “Paid driver club” and have made harsh decision before.

      I think he has had adaquate opportunity to show performance and consistancy in previous races and qualifying.

      Poor guy but its tough at the top.

      Also, i like Vettel although i think he carried on about China a bit to much and painted an unfair stigma which caried over to this decision.

      1. @aussieracer

        The monday after China Vettel already came out and said it was a racing incident and Kvyat was not to blame. I don’t understand why people keep going on about Vettel’s reaction in China.

        1. Agree Baron storm in a teacup..every driver on the grid besides ‘Mutton’ would of gone for the gap..

        2. @barron

          People carry on because rightly so, Vettel is highly regarded for his racing and when he has an opinion about moves and the industry people listen. The media keeps playing over and over his reaction and the words they had before the podium. Not saying its Vettels fault, although his reaction did paint a stigma on Danny going into the Russia race.

    61. Ju88sy (@)
      5th May 2016, 11:14

      Having read several articles by F1 Journalists on this happening Post-Russia I am not surprised. However it is brutal, reading on James Allen’s site he claims that inside Toro Rosso they felt the promotion of Kyvat up to the senior team was too soon as he needed more development….. surely the same can be said of Verstappen!

      Read other commentary that Red Bull have a lot invested in Kyvat and feel he still has the potential to come good…he now has to beat Sainz or stands to be dropped by the team completely with Gasly waiting in the wings and probably ready for a 2017 Toro Rosso seat.

    62. And people wonder why others hate Red Bull.

      1. I do not like them for their stance on engines but on the driver front I like it, sink or swim. Very few seats in F1 you could fill the grid a few time over with the talented drivers out there so you have to perform especially in the top seats. Only thing is sometimes a talented driver needs time, look at Grosjean but you can only give so long or you could have a Maldonado on your hands. Even Ricciardo is not safe his career could go either way, a Jean Alesi or a Mika Hakkinen.

    63. Ruthless

    64. red bull is an energy drinks company masquerading as a formula one team…

      1. With their aero, tough attitude and winning mentality I wish as a Ferrari fan that Ferrari get into the energy drinks business as it must help make a good F1 team.

    65. All this shows is that Sainz never had a sniff and the Red Bull seat, he was there to just make up the numbers for Marko’s circus.

      Good luck to Max, hate to think what would happen if he causes as crash. Will they do another switcheroo everytime a young driver makes a mistake?

    66. Red Burn gives you wings? Is that the moto? Or is it “cuts of your wings”? LOL
      Even Putin could’t save Kvyat!!! LOL
      And now, Ricciardo, pay attention, or you’re next. We all watched Toro Rosso favouring Max with dubious race strategies against Sainz during the year, so, who knows if that won’t keep happening in RB.

    67. Kvyat needs to do a Vettel-2008 “Make Toro Rosso Great Again” . This step by red bull is a clear message that neither are F1 teams equal, nor do they consider STR to be a team in the same tier.
      It would have been better if they could have carried out their quitting threat and be done. Franz Tost is a great fellow, he should not be reduced to running a tier-2 team in a single tier formula.

      1. @nimba

        With the current performance of Mercedes all other teams are tier 2 teams.

    68. I’m not surprised, but I am surprised at the same time. Ever since Marko gave Kvyat the hurry up after China in 2015, I always felt that he was going to be nothing but a stop-gap whilst they try to rush Verstappen into the Red Bull seat alongside Ricciardo. However I am yet to see the right mentality from Verstappen which will tell me that he is going to be anything other than smashed by Ricciardo.

      It’s too soon for Verstappen and it’s too soon for Kvyat. I also do not buy the lame excuse that being at Toro Rosso will help regain his confidence. It will do just the opposite. The Russian should be looking elsewhere ASAP.

      1. Exactly, MAX isnt ready yet and Kvyat needs to look elsewhere… They wont get rid of Riciardo just to annoy Ferrari.

        And where can Kvyat find a seat? He has 8 months to do it. Renault probably not, Manor and Sauber need pay drivers.. SFI, Williams? Replace Gutierez at Haas? Either way no other way but down from Red Bull.

        Only Vettel in their entire driver history moved up from RBR.

        Riciardo should try to find a good seat just in case Max becomes more attractive #1 choice.

    69. Im sure Grosjean is happy he never raced for Red Bull.

    70. I think RBR wants consistency from its drivers. And that is what Max gives: always fast pace, saves his tires, overtakes without hesitation/confidence/courage, points.
      Still can get better at starts and qualifying.
      Kvyat has been all over the place with his performance. I feel sorry for him but he can get his confidence back at STR. He will find a new team after the season is over.

      1. And people should just accept this fact: Verstappen is a lot more consistent than Kvyat. If Red Bull wants the best pair to win the title next year, it makes perfect sense to promote Verstappen now after his impressive start to the season.

        1. Forget title next year, but rather third place this year. They need that consistency from its drivers…

          To bad, so does STR.

    71. My assumption is that Kvyat said something in the meeting or was generally unrepentant so the team decided to knock him down a few pegs.

      1. Pretty much what I was thinking too, although I thought he pretty much owned it in the post-race interviews. Perhaps something changed in his attitude once they sat down behind closed doors.

        If I’m honest I’ve not been very invested in DK and am much more stoked to see Max in a better car. But I do feel for
        DK if in fact he had continued to own the 2 Vettel hits and still got the axe
        (read semi-axe).

    72. But can Red Bull expect Max not to do the same kind of hot-headed thing as Kvyat in turn 1 when at the front? He has a considerable temper/stubborn streak of his own….

    73. ColdFly F1 (@)
      5th May 2016, 12:21

      Seems a bit harsh on Kvyat. Especially since he did quite well last year, and just brought home an unexpected podium.
      But that’s life at Red Bull; perform or out. And not sure why fans are getting so upset. Drivers have been sacked for less, and we (the fans) are the loudest screaming that drivers should only be chosen on merit.

      It’s a bit of a mixed bag for Verstappen as well. Most now see him as extremely talented; but sure the doubters will be back with a vengeance if Verstappen makes a mistake in RBR car. It might have been better to have another year at STR under his belt before moving on.
      On the other side, I can’t wait to see how well he does against Ricciardo, and see him smash a few ‘youngest’ records (mostly Vettel at 21).
      And for Kvyat still being young himself, it might be not too bad to fight it out with Sainz who is also seen as extremely talented. I don’t think their careers will necessarily end at STR.

    74. The Pelican
      5th May 2016, 12:22

      Short memory indeed, didn’t Seb Vettel (in a Toro Rosso) run into Mark Webber (Red Bull) in a rainy Italian GP taking him out and losing a potential win and points for not one but 2 teams in 2009. That was a daft move as well.

      1. No. In 2009 Vettel and Webber both drover for Red Bull and Vettel finished the Italian GP in 8th and Webber retired after a collision with Kubica at the start.

        Try again for double jeopardy.

      2. I think you mean Japan 2008

        1. Vettel had a clean race and finished sixth in Japan 2008.

      3. It was Fuji 2007.

    75. Matthew Coyne
      5th May 2016, 12:42

      The backlash I am seeing on this thread is all feelings infused.

      Take feelings out of this equation for a moment, Kvyat has not performed to the level that someone in a top team should. You cannot use his China podium which lets be honest he lucked into with RIC’s puncture as a reason why this is wrong, equally you cannot take 1 bad race as a reason for demotion however Kvyat over the course of last season and the start of this season has not been up to scratch – People trying to blame Vettel for the second hit seem to be forgetting that if the first hit hadn’t occurred then the field would not have been in the position it was for the second hit to occur, Vettel wouldn’t have been apprehensive of damage and that first hit was 100% solely Kvyats mistake and was a ridiculous position to put himself in, it was also that incident which damaged his team mate.

      F1 is a business, Red Bull are there to win not to participate and this whole incident was catastrophic for the team – it wasn’t a minor mistake between team mates, Verstappen in their eyes is the new Vettel so why would they not promote him and demote Kvyat? You’ve got to be ruthless to be successful, noone wins in life by being the nice guy not in any business and sometimes difficult decisions need to be made for the greater good.

      1. The problem is that everyone here (and the press especially) see this as a punishment for Kvyat. It is not. It is a promotion for Verstappen. By moving Verstappen up they have to sack or move someone down. Between Ricciardo and Kvyat, that was always going to be Kvyat. Even if Kvyat had outperformed Ricciardo in the first 4 races. Kvyat is a bit of an up and down performance wise. He is less of a star than Ricciardo and brings in a lot less PR money. Ricciardo’s smile is probably worth more than Kvyat’s sponsor’s.
        This is purely about keeping Verstappen for the long term. If Red Bull hadn’t given Verstappen the seat Ferrari or Mercedes would have snatched him from Red Bull. Rumor has it there was already a contract proposal from Ferrari which team Verstappen used to negotiate a deal.

      2. Vyacheslav
        5th May 2016, 14:01

        In case of business, such decisions poison an team atmosphere and have a negative long-term effect. If RB really try to secure a seat for Verstappen this way, so next step from Max (and his management) will be to ask for the number 1 status, or another team mate, or higher wage. It is very slippery way of doing business. But seems this is a RB style (give us an engine, or we will quit).
        As many people already mentioned, Riccardo will put 200% to destroy Max, and if it will be option, he for sure will move to Ferrari.

    76. Well, this spells the end of Kvyat’s F1 career then. He will get the rest of the year in Torro Rosso, and maybe one more year with them after but let’s face it, the bosses have already made up their mind about him. And even if he shows reasonably strongly during that time no other team will pick up one of the Red Bull ‘rejects’. Noone picked up Alguersuari, Buemi or Vergne who were all capable drivers, so unless Kvyat somehow secures a huge sponsorship deal then it will be the same for him.

      A shame really – I don’t think he has the star potential Red Bull is looking for but he’s a good bit better than many on the grid and would likely be able to iron out some of the scruffy errors if he had been given more time.

    77. Max has finished in the points every race except Russia, where he would have finished in the points if it wasn’t for an engine failure.

      Meanwhile Kvyat qualified 18th in Australia, 15th in Bahrein, got a lucky podium in China (Ricciardo was faster the whole race) and ruined the races of Vettel, Ricciardo, Sainz and himself in Russia.

      Verstappen simply deserves that Red Bull seat more than Kvyat.

    78. So it seems Vettel is in on this plot as he purposefully slowed down at T3 so that Kvyat would end his race and the Russian would look like an idiot, and he would further plot Kvyat’s downfall by visiting the Red Bull pitwall and convincing them (on live TV, mind you). Or at least that is what @lockup would have you believe.

    79. Join Date
      Jan 2014
      I think that while the crash(es) at Sochi were a big part of the decision, he did after all ruin 3 RB races -his, ric’s and sainz’s-, it was mostly an internal morale move. Someone else in the organization must have complained about him; whether it was an engineer, another driver or an executive figure either as a result of this incident or from a previous grievance.

    80. There still will be a seat available at Ferrari next season I believe.
      That could be Ricciardo’s. So they had to promote the best talent. Second seat will be for Sainz or Kvyat then.
      STR will have new talent next season.

    81. Tayyib Abu
      5th May 2016, 13:11

      I dont really like the timing of this, I do think Verstappen has more potential than Kvyat but at least give him the season to show he’s good enough. One good race doesn’t make you a superstar and a bad race doesn’t make you a chump. He had a really good race in China and he has talent and surely Red Bull are handicapping themselves if Ricciardo moves on at the end of the season. I just dont like the knee jerk reaction about all this but it is Helmut Marko, Alguersuari, Buemi and JEV were all good drivers and were discarded.

    82. Kevin Queally
      5th May 2016, 13:11

      Just as well Grosjean wasn’t driving for Red Bull in 2012 when he was having his first lap incidents. He’d be gone from F1 now. Harsh on Kyvat in my opinion. Verstappen has plenty of time to graduate to RBR.

      1. Bit what if Red Bull nails the regulation change next year and are fighting for the championship next year? Wouldn’t they need the absolute best drivers pair they can get?

    83. Max has shown he can deliver (overtakes, pace) without the faster car. So the RB12 will be perfect for Max.
      Ricciardo will be a great teammate to help him grow.

      1. Vyacheslav
        5th May 2016, 14:05

        Ricciardo will do everything to destroy him.

        1. Like what?

    84. Its very harsh, definitely. Not undermining the mistake he did, but this punishment/decision is a bit too hard. Perhaps a race ban or two should have sufficed, but that would have brought too much instability, so maybe some other kind of punishment and a serious reprimand by the team of the consequences of his next mistake might have been appropriate.

      Being a professional, he will have to reply from his car now. He can’t/shouldn’t allow one mistake to ruin his entire career.

      This sucks though.

    85. With the championship effectively over for most teams, and they devote more resources to next season, I’m guessing Ferrari offered Max a large heap of money to drive for them, forcing red bulls hand to react.

    86. I’m looking forward to seeing how Max will fare against Ricciardo, but at the same time, I didn’t expect this to happen this season.

    87. There are times when Helmut Marko makes Ramsay Bolton look like an amateur.

    88. Michael Brown
      5th May 2016, 13:44

      I hope Ricciardo smashes Verstappen for the rest of this year, destroying him, then switching to Ferrari 😄
      THAT’S what Marko deserves

      1. Maybe Max is promoted because they do not want to lose Ricciardo AND Verstappen next season.

    89. Good choice: Verstappen has continued to impress on track, while Kvyat has struggled to stay close to Ricciardo after actually doing quite well last year. But this year is all about looking to 2017 and beyond, and Verstappen was clearly going places.

    90. I wonder wat will happen if Kvyat takes out Verstappen in the first lap in Spain? 😃

    91. Red Bull are doing their bit for the F1 circus and Helmut is clearly proud of his diploma from the Frank Williams School of Driver Management. But to make the festivities complete Verstappen needs to pull a Monaco next week and clip Danny in the rear. You can do it Max!

    92. So Verstappen takes on Kvyatt’s total of PU’s turbos etcetera used so far this season and Kvyatt takes on Verstappen’s. Is that right? But they keep their personal tallies of points in the WDC, even though they switch teams, yes?

    93. Only australia? Let’s talk to Grosjean…

    94. This is a crazy decision. What if Max takes out Ricciardo in the Spanish GP opening lap?

      1. RBR will quit F1

        1. Lol what if DK takes out Max?

    95. Red Bull is such a reactionary, slapdash Formula 1 team management-wise. It’s laughable.

      RB promote Kvyat over Vergne to the senior team prematurely, end up dropping Kvyat back to Toro Rosso, and promote another green driver (again prematurely) in Verstappen over a driver of equal ability to take his place. They chuck drivers around like disposable entities, obliterating top-flight careers as they go, hoping something Vettel-esque falls into their lap. Who’s to blame here?

      Money and marketing potential has to be the driving force in Verstappen’s case, doesn’t it? I hope Sainz mullers him regularly during 2016, because Red Bull’s antics are as headless-chicken as Ecclestone’s crazy gang.

    96. Helmut Marko (the arrogant one) he said Toro Rosso drivers to promote to RedBull needed a win like Vettel or at least some podiums. Where is the loved kid win, or the podiums?

      1. No, he said that Red Bull want potential winners. Vettel’s promotion was announced before he won a race. Verstappen’s results and performances show the potential to win races and maybe even titles, like Vettel and Ricciardo before him.

    97. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      5th May 2016, 14:29

      Very harsh!!! Kvyat has to now do better than a Red Bull driver and he’ll get the last laugh!

      Harsh for Sainz too! They should work together on track to undo the Red Bull duo.

      Doesn’t matter if they pass each other, that’s of little relevance at this stage:-) Red Bull is done with both of them.

    98. Gonzalo Sobarzo
      5th May 2016, 14:30

      How much pressure put Ferrari for this?
      Will they power RB next year?

    99. Hmm Helmut Marko said “At the end of the year the cards will be reshuffled (regarding the Red Bull and Toro Rosso driver line-ups). This also means that Carlos Sainz has a chance to step up.”

      Wonder what that means? So Riccardo going elsewhere?

      1. Ferrari is looking for Kimi replacement. Could be Ricciardo or Max. Ricciardo has more experience, so more likely for Ferrari.
        So der Helmut had to do something to not loose maybe both of them to other teams.

    100. This is beyond brutal! What a harsh decision!
      But it made my day! I’m guilty of that; i hated his face since i saw the cheeky attitude towards Seb trying to tell him that that reckless aggressiveness on the first lap will not always work and more often than not it will wreck other people races.
      This was so mean by RedBull (or Marko), unless they have planned on it for a while and this was the perfect opportunity to do it. They could not have dropped him before the Russian GP, right after he gave them the podium.

    101. Actually…I do think it’s a lose-lose situation.

      KVY obviously is in a worse position. After losing 2014 with VER, he got a fast chance to jump to RB. He did make the best of it by beating RIC (remember RIC was the rising star after beating VET). So after a great year 2015 and a mediocre (but still with podium) 2016 he will finish this season at TR….Let’s see the power of Russian sponsors….he might be out of run next year.

      SAI might not be happy. Despite the fact he has been unlucky, he was doing a good job. IMHO VES still holds the upper hand, but not far from him. But I guess he will be angry.

      RIC lost to KVY in 2015, he was doing well in 2016 and now he will have to face the rising star, with all the excuses….(I’m young, I’m learning, I have to adjust to RB, etc.). And racing without pressure can give VES a little help over RIC.

      Maybe the only winner in this situation is VES. But why? I guess that was a desperate move by RB in order to “re-sign” VES. A way to prevent Ferrari and other powerhouses to get a grip of VES.

    102. What happens if Verstappen hits Ricciardo next race? Does Sainz get a go? HAHA

    103. We’ll never know but I suspect that there is a lot more to this that what we see from outside the teams.

      Possible that Danil shot himself in the foot during the post race debrief and refused to acknowledge his fault at the race start.

      Harsh but I guess when there’s another team to send him to they can take action without “sacking” the driver completely.

    104. Not good for either driver in my opinion, massive blow to Danil’s confidence of course and a lot of pressure heaped on Max’s shoulders.

    105. I am curious what would happen if Kyvat beats Verstappen in Barcelona? Or if Max stuffs Vettel into the wall at the first corner? Oh one can only dream!

    106. Fudge Ahmed (@)
      5th May 2016, 16:20

      Excellent. The front running competition is a joke at the moment so all power to the midfield drama.

    107. Andy (@andybantam)
      5th May 2016, 17:11

      Wow! I hope there’s more to this than meets the eye… He may have blotted his copy book in some other way, otherwise this seems very harsh.

      I feel a little sorry for him, blasted out by Seb one week, losing a top drive not long after.

      Unless there’s something else going on that we’re not aware of, I can only conclude that this is a terrible decision.

      1. spafrancorchamps
        5th May 2016, 21:42

        It now seems that the biggest reason to this, were not Kvyat’s performances (that has actually only created a solution). According to Marko there was a war going on at Toro Rosso between Sainz’s part of the garage, and Verstappen’s. And although Helmut doesn’t go into any details, I suppose Frank Tost was done with Verstappen’s team, as not only is MV moving away to RBR, but his engineer (and possibly his data analyst) got fired today.

    108. I was wrong RB did drop Kvyat. Hard decision but it’s still early in the season. I wonder if it was Verstappen’s team who forced RB’s hand or if it was the competition’s. Daniil left RB exposed.

    109. Red Bull style. That is why we dont like them.

      Also proves age old saying… You are only as good as your last weekend.

      But also Red Bull style, they tried to do that to Renault aswell… But couldnt get away with it.

      Drivers are more replacable.

    110. machinesteve
      5th May 2016, 17:29

      I realise this is the kind of comment that comes back and bites you in the butt….but I think he is over-rated or at least no better than Kyviat the ‘real deal’ of two years ago. Verstappen has not really demolished Sainz (as Senna, Schumacher or Vettel would have done) and has just made a lot of sweary noise. Meanwhile Sainz has just got on with it. Isn’t anyone noticing how Perez is demolishing the feted Hulk this year…if anyone deserves a top drive it is him. he got the blame when McLaren beginning their slide into averageness…..which continued long after that despatched him for Mag who also got the blame!

      1. Remember Verstappen is only 18. Does not have the experience that alle the others have when they got into F1.
        But pulling off overtakes that no one ever has done before him. With confidence. As a rookie.
        His tire management is as good as Vettels and he overtakes cars that are faster on the strait, on the strait, by having a better exit into the strait.
        He out brakes F1 veterans without blocking his tires while they do. In faster cars.
        At 18.

      2. Verstappen outscored Sainz 62-22 up until now. Sainz has had bad luck, but so has Verstappen, who’s engine cost a further eight points last week.

    111. I see quite a lot of Verstappen bashing here. I wonder where that hate comes from. Comments that he is a hothead etc., what are they based on? On what happened in Australia? It’s all pretty selective, who knows what other drivers are ranting since not all driver-team communications are brought to the wide public. Maybe Wehrlein is a bigger hothead, but his communication is not interesting as he fights for last position due to inferiority of his car. Verstappen gets singled out because he is the youngest F1 driver ever and had a 1st season above expectation, so much so that half the world was in total awe. Now the media and the public seem to have taken it upon themselves to crush him. Who knows all the exact ins and outs? I am quite sure this move has more to it than poor racing results and judgements. Simulator results, finesse in car setup and many other things could be a factor. Only time will tell this move was justified, for the relatively unknowing publoc it’s now not the time to judge drivers, team managers or whole teams.

      1. +1 Just have a look at the two comments below….

      2. People like to be contrary

    112. Pontouffle
      5th May 2016, 19:13

      Wow… looking from an outsider point of view at the F1 community (off- and on-line), it’s bizarre watching this Verstappen phenomenon. As a community, you’ve taken a guy and hyped the crap out of him because he’s super-young and because your own community is… well… hyping him, even though he has very little experience in higher-level racing. Will he be good? Who knows. Is he good? No, not yet. He’s ballsy. But if you put Nasr, Palmer, Wehrlein and Max in completely equal cars, I highly doubt he’d fare well. We’ll probably never know though, because you’ve all decided to baselessly worship him, so he’ll become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Good job. Way to ensure that we actually see the best drivers.

      1. spafrancorchamps
        5th May 2016, 21:35

        Yes, I’m sure Red Bull put him at STR because of the (at that point, non-existing) hype. I’m sure Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari are so complimentary because of the hype. I’m sure Red Bull promotes him, because of the hype. And I’m sure, that if he’ll fare good at Red Bull with Ricciardo besides him, it will be because of the hype as well!

    113. I’m wondering how difficult it is going to be for these guys to get up to speed in cars they haven’t driven. Cars that also have different power plants, with different characteristics. At this point, these guys have a lot of laps in the cars already, and jumping into a different chassis, with zero laps under their belt, before they take part in a race weekend, sounds like a very difficult proposition. I’d expect both to be well behind their teammates for two or three races maybe. There’s bound to be some expectation of this, but I’m sure Kvyat is going to get slammed even more by some journalists and fans. Verstappen, “the golden boy”, will probably be given more leeway from the fans and the press. He’s always being praised, while Sainz mostly gets ignored.

      1. He’ll likely be in the simulator none stop and he’s got 3 practice sessions to get his eye in I wouldn’t worry much about them getting up to speed with a new car. Most of the drivers on the grid could jump in a car they’ve not driven before and within a session be within a couple of tenths of a driver familiar with it.

        1. I’m not so sure it’s that easy these days. In the past, drivers have struggled to quickly adapt to a new chassis, and they could go test with the team before the race weekend. Now the cars are far more complex, there’s zero test time, and these power units have a lot of different settings and power delivery characteristics. From what I’ve seen in the past, some drivers can do it, and others just need more time. It’ll be interesting to see how each of them manages it. Certainly Kvyat is under extraordinary pressure now, and things have just been made much more difficult for him. Sainz is a very quick driver, and I think Kvyat would have a hard time beating him under even ideal conditions.

          1. Let’s not forget too that the reason (or one of) they are changing things for 2017 is that the cars are too easy to drive. Too limiting. The fact that a 17 year old was able to come in and do what he did in his first year concerns some that it makes F1 look too easy, and they indeed are addressing that very thing. So I would say MV will be fine and it will be like hopping into a similar car anyway due to it being from the same family.

    114. guess…Kvyat was told to hit somebodies car….from Redbull management..
      Was wathing video many times.

      take a look at Kvyats braking and compare it with other cars..
      conspiracy theory in action

      1. turn2

    115. You know what I can’t stand? It’s the fact that most F1 teams- Red Bull in particular- have long-term goals that at the very longest are the time span of 2 races. Clearly, that rock that hit Helmut Marko in the eye that was thrown from Emerson Fittipaldi’s Lotus 72 at the 1972 French Grand Prix clearly affected other parts of his head… even by F1 standards, for Kvyat to lose his seat so suddenly (and hopefully, only temporarily) is really harsh.

    116. I support Verstappen, but this is not good.

    117. that would be something else if Max crashed in to the back of Vettel next round.

      1. Or DK into Max

    118. Jon (@johns23)
      6th May 2016, 0:38

      No pressure Max! Will be good to see how he handles an F1 car towards the front. Im actually hoping Danny Ric blows him out of the water, just to keep Max’s feet firmly on the ground. This is very poor by Red Bull

    119. So basically they’ve been looking for an excuse to move Verstappen up. Should be interesting. Hope for Kvyat he doesn’t join F1’s long list of forgotten almost-beens, guy’s got speed.

    120. Max and his father’s behaviours are very unbecoming. Max has shown talents, but his talents have been completely over-hyped. So far, talent and a few incredible drive. F1 viewers appear to be desperate for something extraordinary. Too many people jump the wagon and just praise and praise! Looking at the incredible training facility he’s had since he was a child, at his home, made possible by abundant fund, it’s no wonder he is at this level now. But it somewhat dulls the sheen of his true talent. Any objective mind would question his true talent! This has been a kid groomed solely to drive an F1 car. It makes one wonder how much raw and true talent is there to begin with and how much is based on sheer preparation? Max’s been walking around with smugness on his face and arrogance that is so unappealing for someone so young. It won’t be long before he and his father demand that Max must have the championship regardless purely based on this perceived talent! How long will it be before the training and preparation which set him well up to this point, loses its effectiveness? Horner is such a weak leader and Marko’s a dirty player. Go Kvyatt pull yourself up and drive very well.

    121. chris (@)
      6th May 2016, 6:49

      I bet Sainz is a bit miffed at loosing out to Max.
      Sainz over looked
      Dani demoted
      Max promoted

      That’ll raise moral at toro rosso, not!

    122. Why are people presenting on this forum there opinions as facts. Against these kind of accusations a person can’t defence, in this case Verstappen, himself. If all the negatives are thrue about Verstappen, Red Bull must be totally out of there mind to apoint Max as there driver for RB racing. Max can take consolation that all great drivers/personalities in history of F1 had admires en people who hate theme. Max has to focus on his job and let his craft let do all the talking.
      I wish him all the best because i think he is very modest young men, a fears competitor, funny and a future WDC

      1. Totally agree. Don know why people are so negative about Max Verstappen. Are those the same people who found Max was too young to drive a F1 car at the age of 17? He stood up big time.

        To be honest I’m not so sure whether this move will benefit Max. I’d rather see him finishing the season in the TorroRosso. I’m pretty sure Red Bull is eager to perform rather sooner than later. Whether this attitude will victimize Max? All depends on his mental strength as there is nothing wrong with his driving skills….

    123. Sergey Martyn
      6th May 2016, 14:12

      Can’t wait to hear frustrated Max whinning ‘I’m much faster than Carlos, oops, sorry, than Ricciardo!”
      And not wishing anybody any trouble I just like to watch the elongated faces of RB bosses if Verstappen crash into someone, especially Vettel.
      Helmut is quickly catching Bernie but he probably forgot that at the end of each straight leading to demented decisions there is some tricky corner.
      I’m not a biggest fan of Kvyat but RedBull treatment is beyond any sensible reasons.
      Forza STR!

    124. Muy cuestión: why verstappen and not Sainz? Who is the best?

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