Monza plans to tear up first chicane

2017 Italian Grand Prix

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Track officials at Monza, the home of the Italian Grand Prix, are planning to replace the Rettifilio chicane with a new, high-speed configuration in 2017.

The Rettifilio chicane has been a trouble spot
Documents published on the Lombardy regional government’s website* dealing with changes to the local environment reveal details of the planned changes for next year.

The Rettifilio chicane is the first braking point on the current layout and has existed in various formats since 1972. For next year the track organisers plan to convert it back into a straight.

Instead of negotiating the current Curva Grande, drivers will sweep through a new section including a right-hander and a chicane. The details of this change to the track were revealed in January, however at the time it was expected it would only be used for motorbikes.

But the new track design documents states there will be “no difference between the car and motorcycle configurations”. As the circuit still does not have a contract to hold F1 next year it remains to be seen whether F1 drivers will tackle the new high-speed configuration.

Other minor changes planned for the circuit included revised kerbs and new service lanes to aid the recovery of stranded vehicles and reduce the amount of time lost to red flags at the circuit.

*PDF link

Thanks to Robin Taylor for the tip.

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Monza track changes plan for 2017.The current Rettifilio chicane and Curva Grande can be seen

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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99 comments on “Monza plans to tear up first chicane”

  1. Kyle (@hammerheadgb)
    24th May 2016, 21:29

    Nooooo. I won’t especially mourn the loss of the first chicane but Curva Grande would be a huge miss!

  2. I always thought the chicane they built in 2000 was horrible. I’m not convinced it’s particularly safe either.

    While losing Curva Grande is regrettable, this configuration looks like it would raise average speeds at Monza, bringing it closer to its original identity. One which realistically we are never, ever going to get back.

    So I’m somewhat in favour of this change. And if in any way it helps keep Monza on the calendar I’m completely behind it.

    1. I agree that the current chicane is awful, but I doubt the plans above will make races more spectacular. Not because of the loss of Curva Grande, but because of the new stupidly fast corner. My guess is that it will be flat, but only on the raceline. I think it would kill an opportunity to overtake on Monza. If not, I’m all for it.

    2. But why not just get rid of the first chicane and leave the rest unchanged? Instead we get another, seemingly worse chicane which ruins Curva grande and the flow up to the second chicane.

      1. The speeds through Curva Grande would be far too high with not enough run-off, without the chicane. That said, I think there ought to be another solution which works better than this.

        The chicane doesn’t look like much of a chicane, it’s more of a left jolt then a very slow right turn. It would definitely ruin any overtaking chances, as well as the chances into chicane two, as you point out is now ruined.

        Monza is pretty well known for its tendency to produce first corner shunts. The question is, would there be even more with this new turn? It seems far too fast with so many cars heading towards it on the opening lap, nevermind motorbikes.

        Personally I cannot see why they cannot do this new configuration, and keep the old one? Seems so logical to me.

        1. More run off than the tunnel at Monaco. Should ask the drivers if they would want Curva Grande flat with no 1st chicane. If the majority say yes then do it.

          1. The tunnel at Monaco isn’t at the end of a mile line straight which already starts fast out of the Parabolica.

          2. But it has more run off than the tunnel to compensate. The new right hander though Iooks more challenging as it is tighter but will be taken flat, thats a huge braking zone for the new chicane, maybe quite good but they might as well get rid of the 2nd chicane as the 1st Lesmahagow would be awesome.

    3. The earlier reports were that the old layout would remain for cars, now the tone has changed.

      I’m starting to think the Monza organization more or less knows that F1 isn’t their future and are thinking about bikes now.

    4. There’s only one real reason they’re doing this – to make room for more stands on the outside of Curva Grande. They will then turn the area into a sea of asphalt and draw the “new” circuit on that, not unlike what they did to Parabolica.

      With the current 1st chicane (clumsy as it may be) we had one huge braking zone there and then another high speed section through Curva Grande to Della Roggia where once again there was a heavy braking zone and a good passing opportunity. What this would do is take that away and have cars spread out too much through two chicanes that follow one right after the other. This will effectively kill any passing opportunities at Monza.

      If they really wanted to raise speeds – which i doubt, because it goes against the modern philosophy of safety first – then they should’ve either fed the new portion of the track directly into Della Roggia without the new chicane, to make one massive braking zone which would then create overtaking possibilities, or do away with Della Roggia altogether and have the circuit run uninterrupted between the new chicane and Lesmos, having the cars closer together there and maybe create an overtaking chance into Ascari.

      1. Zantkiller (@)
        24th May 2016, 23:58

        They are doing this to get an FIM grade 1 classification. The FIM stripped Monza of it’s homologation a few years ago and with it the WSBK race at Monza. Monza has tried multiple times to get it back (resurfacing bumps, the run off at Parabolica) and this is the final thing they are going to have to do.

        If the first chicane was rubbish for F1 it was just flatout dangerous for the bikes with multiple incidents over the years on the opening laps.

        If you read the PDF (Which we should incredibly grateful for, we never get stuff like this from Tilke. Tilke is not doing this upgrade but Jarno Zaffelli from Dromo Applied Italian Circuit Design) you will see it is compliant with both FIA and FIM grade 1.

        1. digitalrurouni
          25th May 2016, 14:47

          Amen on the PDF!

    5. The potential for first lap carnage is massive, imagine the speeds the whole field will reach as they start to brake. I watched the race there a few years ago sitting on the main straight watching them approach the first chicane was scary to say the least.

    6. I agree as well, the post 2000 Rettifilio chicane is awful (too tight and clumsy) and whilst it does offer one of the few overtaking opportunities on the track it has effectively turned Curva Grande into a ‘straight’ anyway. The new chicane looks similar in profile to Della Roggia with a more open exit so the entry speed will probably be a little higher which should make it less of an overtaking opportunity than Della Roggia, although the longer braking distance from what is likely to be a MASSIVE top speed may turn it into a bit more of an opportunity. Whether we will ever get to see an F1 car on the new layout though is another matter!

    7. I love the first chicane. I’ve always admired drivers nailing their braking points at over 200mph and wrestling it into that 1st apex. Especially during qualifying. That must be so violent and extreme in the cockpit and hugely satisfying when got right.
      I know when I’ve got it right on the playstation I feel like a god.. Lol

    8. @keithcollantine I agree, but this chicane placed there, wouldn’t it make Variante Della Roggia a bit pointless?

      They could go all the way to Lesmo, really…

  3. Not particularly happy about that. The first chicane is one of the few places on the track where you can actually get a decent view of the cars (and a reasonable chance of seeing an overtake).

    1. @textuality And the second chicane, which will also be ruined with a much slower, less opportunistic entry.

    2. Michael Brown (@)
      25th May 2016, 16:19

      I imagine they’ll build stands around the new chicane.

  4. Matthew Coyne
    24th May 2016, 21:41

    This is going to bring some crazy speeds and I would think seeing cars going flat out round the kink before the new chicane (Assuming they will be able to do so, I suspect they probably will with all the new downforce!) Will be awe-inspiring.

    I’m for the change to be honest, T1 has always been a messy corner that didn’t really fit with the character of the rest of the track it just felt out of place.

    1. petebaldwin (@)
      25th May 2016, 12:20

      I’m the same. Looks an improvement to me. The first chicane and what has become a flat out Curva Grande aren’t huge losses – I think the new turn 1 will be like turn 1 at Silverstone – fast but easy with modern F1 cars and hopefully they’ll make the new chicane a bit more open and flowing than what we had before.

      These changes certainly matter less to me than what they did to Parabolica

  5. Robert (@skylab007)
    24th May 2016, 21:43

    Racing cars are going to be hitting that new Turn One pretty fast without a chicane on the main straight… And Turn One looks like being nothing more than a vary fast kink. Can’t really see this getting the go ahead for F1 cars from a safety point of view.

    1. Well, this was one of the big points of contention with the contract negotiations.

  6. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

    1. I would say that it is broke. The first chicane kills the flow of the whole circuit. Looking at the PDF link in the article, removing the chicane and modifying Curva Grande will result in a circuit that will flow a lot better than the current configuration.

    2. petebaldwin (@)
      25th May 2016, 12:23

      That’s like saying Mercedes should take a year of from development because they are miles ahead. If you don’t constantly improve, you move backwards. Applies to almost everything.

  7. It would be awesome to see motogp bikes race at Monza in replace of Mugello or in addition to.

    1. Seriously!!!! Are you Serious??!!! Mugello is probably the best circuit on the MotoGP calendar! and you want to replace it with Monza?! Madness! Utter madness.

      1. Formula one is probably better off moving to mugello!

        1. Alternating Monza, Imola and Mugello would not be a bad idea…

  8. While the 1st chicane did not suit to the rest of the circuit it was an overtaking spot and the run through curva grande into the 2nd was another opportunity.
    I think we’ll loose that because of the shorter straight. Also I don’t think speeds will increase significantly.

    1. No more overtaking due to the circuit, more reason to impose random sprinklers and fanboost…

  9. For those saying you will mourn the loss of Curva Grande, it’s been largely neutered since the introduction of the chicane, and this new layout will bring the track closer to its original very high speed first corner, I mean if they don’t lift at all, even with the speed scrub due to cornering, this has the potential to be a 220mph corner if low downforce configurations are used and the engines get more powerful.

    I think this is a case of hating change in general more than hating the actual change here

    1. @sam3110, there has been some form of chicane on the main straight to slow the entry speed into Curva Grande since 1972, so it has been a long, long time since the drivers went into Curva Grande flat out.

      1. That’s exactly my point though, many of us are too young to know the original Curva Grande, so people complaining about them changing it are misguided, as the version we have seen for the past 40 years is a slower, more tame version, and this change will bring it back closer to the old configuration. The current corner is OK, but it’s an acceleration corner, imagine a similar version but completely flat out at top speed, it’s more exciting

        1. I agree, it will also be the fastest 1th corner of any GP as far as I can see?

        2. Maximilian Mutch
          26th May 2016, 3:35

          The Curva Grande as well as the Lesmo 1 and 2 were both completely reprofiled in 1995 due not enough runoff to satisfy safety requirements as a result of the 1994 San Marino GP. As a result, Curva Grande was moved back with the result being a larger radius and the Lesmos were moved back, making both of them tighter. Because of this, I view the Curva Grande as not what it used to be, but rather a modern corner where a legend once stood (much like Stowe at Silverstone). Therefore, it does not bother me at all when they come out and announce that they are going to get rid of a horrible chicane and a modern corner and replace it with a complex more in spirit with the origins of the track. After all, we will now have an effective 1550m straight between the exit of Parabolica and Turn 1, punishing mistakes out of Parabolica even more.

  10. So sections of the track which have actually provided some pretty good overtaking over the years are being done away with and replaced with an even longer straight which will likely see some boring straight line cruising passes made instead.

    I’m not usually a fan of chicanes plonked onto tracks to slow things down, but the Rettifilio chicane has always seemed to work both in allowing passes, provoking mistakes and setting up passes onto the Curva Grande.

  11. The 2000 chicane has been a disaster. Not sure this new config will be much better yet it will likely smooth the way to finally close the F1 deal.

  12. I don’t really know how I feel about this. I’m happy that we are reverting to the old turn one which gave a great sense of speed, but then the equally thrilling Curva Grande is being butchered. Also, the current turn one that we have was a good overtaking spot, and reminded me of Hamilton’s brilliant move on Raikkonen in 2007. Other than that, it didn’t really seem particularly thrilling and has also been quite dangerous in the past. Mixed feelings for me.

  13. Not gonna shed a tear after the first chicane. Mixed feelings about Curva Grande though. One part of me wants to see that new first kink tackled by F1 cars at 350 km/h, the other part wants to see the whole field of cars streaming through the old corner.

    And how are bikes even going to negotiate that first corner? World Superbikes, had they came back to Monza, would reach speeds of up to 340-350 km/h on the straight. Crazy stuff.

  14. In fairness this actually looks okay. Hopefully there will be even higher top speeds down the straight. Revised kerbs is good too, some of the kerbs were okay (and I presume they would be kept), however some of them are very bumpy and look undriveable. Hopefully new kerbs will mean even faster speeds too.

    I visited the circuit on an empty day in 2014, and I must say I was surprised by how basic and outdated everything is for an F1 circuit. I noticed that there seemed to be very narrow (or a lack of in some places) access roads as well, so it makes sense what they said.

  15. Who cares…Monza is the most boring track on the calendar.
    Barely eight corners and zero elevation changes. I just don’t get why you guys go so crazy over this track.

    1. petebaldwin (@)
      25th May 2016, 12:29

      If you went to watch a Monza GP live and experienced the atmosphere compared to most other races you’d get get it.

      As for the track, I like it because it’s different and unique. Millions of corners and elevation changes is great but not for all tracks. Ideally, they’d all be similarly unique all posing different challenges!

      1. I honestly think I’d prefer to go to the Mexican GP for the atmosphere. That was the coolest podium celebration I’ve ever seen in the two decades of F1 I’ve watched.

        1. Monza is the oldest venue currently used for F1- and also the fastest. And also, as a track- it is different to any of the other circuits used for F1. It is one of the few low downforce circuits still used by F1. Not all F1 circuits have- and should have- to be amazing driver’s circuits- variation of circuits is most important. The old Hockenheim wasn’t much of a driver’s circuit- but it was a great spectator’s circuit- i.e. a great place to watch cars dice with each other.

  16. Just no.

    I hate that first corner so much but I do not want to see Curva Grande being sacrificed for it’s removal. They are basically destroying all that is good about this track one bit at a time (i.e. nerfing the Parabolica).

    Now this?

    Just no.

    1. What is being sacrificed??? The Curva Grande is an absolute nothing corner now. It doesn’t even register as a corner to the drivers and hasn’t been a proper corner for at least 2 decades. I really don’t see what you’re moaning about…one horrible chicane is being removed and a corner much more in the spirit of the original Curva Grande is taking its place. Where is the downside??

  17. Looks like they got angry about Mexico taking the top speed crown. I don’t usually like alterations to tracks but it’s nice to the rare event of a corner being changed to make it faster.

  18. Current chicane terrible but please leave curve grande alone!

  19. For as much as i dislike the 1st chicane i loathe this layout even more because curve grande is one of the most iconic corners on the whole circuit & while it has become easy flat its still a historic bit of tarmac thats been a part of the circuit since the beginning.

    Either remove the chicane & have a flat out run through curve grande to the current 2nd chicane or redesign the current 1st chicane to something better in its current location…. Doing anything that butchers curve grande or any of the other ‘classic’ corners is IMO a big no-no!

    Turning curve grande into a little kink & rubbish chicane is just as bad as what they did to eau rouge in 1994!

    1. Wow, I completely forgot about that! No track modification will ever be as bad as that!

  20. Italian here. It’s still not a definitive decision. here a translated excerpt from an italian F1 news site:

    “It should, however, said that the new Board of Directors took office after this instance (ie on Monday, 9) and that, given the connotation of the new Board, composed of men belonging to the ACI (who reject those modifications), this instance may not be successful.
    But from the words of Dell’Orto (ex president of the track’s managing company), delivered through the local press, it seems that Bernie Ecclestone has softened his position on this redevelopment hypothesis of the area.”

  21. Michael Brown (@)
    25th May 2016, 0:48

    I agree with this change, but remove Della Roggia. I think it’s very likely that overtaking going into that corner will suffer as the run from the new chicane to Della Roggia is less than that from the first chicane through Curva Grande to Della Roggia.

    In that case, I’m all for making the first Lesmo slower in order to make it easier to overtake at.

    I like the new chicane. Unlike the current first one, you can fly through it like you can with Della Roggia and Ascari. And the kink before it – which I suppose we’ll have to call the new Curva Grande – is a kink like the one before the first braking zone at Sochi.

    However, while I agree that the first chicane is a pain to drive through, at least it allows for differing lines to set up for Della Roggia.

    But one positive for the new chicane, is that it is preceded by a kink. This will play into the hands of anyone who runs a high downforce setup at Monza.

    In conclusion, I like the new first chicane, but with it I don’t see a point in Della Roggia (the current second chicane).

    1. Michael Brown (@)
      25th May 2016, 16:23

      Oh, and they better not make the pit straight a DRS zone. 1: it’s ridiculously long, and 2: the high speed kink with DRS would be dangerous.

      Instead, let’s have DRS zones on the straights leading to Ascari and Parabolica.

  22. Glad to see the back of that chicane. Horrible corner.

  23. Jonesracing82
    25th May 2016, 3:05

    Curva Grande is a flat blast after the chicane anyway but if they are getting rid of the 1st chicane & having it after a fast 1st turn, then get rid of the 2nd chicane & have the next turn as Lesmo1

  24. I don’t get it. The high speed corner will just spread the cars out before the braking zone. Maybe that’s the point but, we won’t have passes in the new left right I am sure.

  25. That new chicane design is incorrect. A chicane should always have a slower first part and a slightly faster second. Increases overtaking opportunities into and out of the corner. Della Roggia is a good example of a well designed chicane.

    1. If you check the PDF document linked above and look at the proper diagrams, you will see that the new proposed chicane does actually meet your “correct chicane design” criteria…

  26. I don’t mind removing the current first chicane as long as they replace it with something suitable.

    My biggest issues is that the Della Roggia chicane has been the place for great overtaking over the recent years and removing the first chicane will alter the run up and entry.

    The worst possible outcome is that they install a poorly designed chicane and it ruins two good overtaking spots instead of one.

  27. Why do they have to ruin everything?

    First castrating parabolica, now taking out Curva Grande…

    With compromises in the name of safety I’m kind of surprised about that first kink, that will be insanely fast on the entry, kinda like Signes on Paul Ricard. What happens when somebody goes off there?

    I just hope this gets rejected

  28. Isnt this going to make Curva Grande the most lethal curve on the callendar? Those are going be the huge speeds they will be reaching into this very fast corner. Very much resembling the Tamburello curve Senna died at. It is a very salty recepe to have a massive entry speed into a high mid corner speed curve. Very small margin for error and huge concequences when you get it wrong, or when something goes wrong.

  29. This would be terrible. Not only removing overtaking into t1 (only moves would be those done on the straight not in any braking zone) but shortens the distance from t1 to the second chicane so would completely destroy moves into there too, which we often see great racing at now.

    There is no point just making Monza ‘fast’. Unless you remove the chicanes completely to reinstate it as a slipstreaming circuit you need to place the chicanes to maximise the potential for card to get closer in braking zones. Otherwise you just have fast straights with no overtaking. To many races at Monza are dull because of this already. This new configuration only makes it worse.

    1. One potential way to improve this new layout, for cars at least, would be to keep the new fast t1, but make what is currently the second chicane the new first chicane (so bypass the new one in blue on your track map). Then you’d have longer to slipstream, an epic t1, but without that new first chicane which is simultaneously too close to t1 fit overtaking while also ruining f chance of attack/counter-attack into the second chicane.

      It leave it how it is. The t1 chicane is clunky, awkward and not great for the flow of the circuit. But it does, with e second chicane at least allow some chance for overtaking and then counter attack.

  30. I must say that while we have seen a lot of “action” at the retifillio chicane (including quite a few veryy disturbing crashes) it never was a nice one and made the whole field look awkward going through.

    Seems someone has thought about this one, its not just a “fitted in to make everything slower” or even worse a Tilke like “one to bunch up the field” that never works as branded and istead ruins the action.
    Off course it will change how cars approach the Della Roggia, although the higher entry speed into the new firs chicane might mean speeds will still be respectable enough.

    Overall, if it helps give Monza a chance at having motorcycle races – and thereby helping the track support its infrastructure, I think its a good thing and we should just see how it goes.

  31. Driving the historic Curva Grande in simulations and games is only a challenge in cars with no downforce. Just about every downforce equipped F1 car can take it flat out, 200+ mph. Sure there’s no fear in these recreations but historic Monza comes across as a glorified oval.

    It would be fantastic to lose the Rettifilio though. Such a Mickey Mouse chicane, very clumsy in every respect. The new chicane looks more like Ascari, which is a ‘proper’ chicane. While they are at it they should reprofile Roggia also.

  32. Why does the Curva Grande need to be changed? Because of the high speeds and the safety risks? If so, why don’t they just move the first chicane a bit further up, just before the Curva Grande begins? That way the entry of Curva Grande will be much slower. The first chicane won’t be more dangerous, the speed difference between 360 km/h or 362 km/h is neglegible.

  33. I love Monza but I don’t really see what’s so special about Curva Grande that it is completely out of the question to alter it. Ideally they would just delete the first chicane but as that is not possible I find this a very interesting solution indeed. We get a very nice long straight where drivers can go all ways to overtake a driver. For a group of people where at least half thinks IndyCar is just turning left on an oval we surely do have strong feelings over an easy right hander.

  34. This will be terrible for overtaking at Monza if F1 uses this layout. I believe it would be much harder to pull along side someone either approaching or after that fast right harder before the new chicane. Also, there will be half the distance to get a run on somebody between the first and second chicanes. The fast right hander will be spectacular but with massive tarmac runoffs on the outside, it wont be a patch on the current Curve Grande for spectacle.

  35. In all honesty I’m more bothered about losing the challenge of the second chicane than about losing the first chicane or the Curva Grande to be honest (in F1 terms, at least).

    The first chicane is just too clumsy for my liking, and the Curva Grande provides no challenge at all these days, though we have seen some stellar passes and even the dummy to end all dummies around the outside over the past couple of years.

    The proposed new first corner looks absolutely mental and the cars are going to hit absolutely awesome speeds through there and I am sure that the new first chicane will be a good place to pass.

    Sure, it’s a big change, but by no means would Monza be ruined. Would it make the average speed even higher?

  36. I don’t like the proposed change. I think, if there were to be some changes, then just a little tweak to the first chicane would be enough. As it is now, it is too slow. Make it a little bit more like the second one, faster entrance and exit, and it would be fine.

  37. This is a much better solution which gives good run off and will keep a high speed approach to the second chicane to preserve overtaking opportunites.

    1. They wouldn’t be able to get the permission to cut down the trees to realise that configuration. It’s the big limiting factor at Monza park (has been for decades).

      1. @keithcollantine wouldn’t they have to cut down lots of trees in order to create runoff on the outside of the new turn 1?

        1. Michael Brown (@)
          25th May 2016, 16:30

          @vmaxmuffin They wouldn’t, because the new turn 1 is closer to the pits than the current Curva Grande. This gives them more runoff, and they can put stands where the Curva Grande gravel trap is.

        2. @vmaxmuffin From reading the PDF my understanding is they’ll leave much (or all) of the existing Curva Grande asphalt there to function as the run-off for the new corner, which makes sense.

  38. Don’t like it, They will be replacing an iconic bit of circuit with a nothing kink, A chicane that looks no better than the one there removing & no doubt a sea of tarmac runoff.

    Not to mention that the run to the 2nd chicane will likely then be too short to be a decent overtaking possibility. Right now you get overtaking into the 2nd chicane because they are able to get a great slipstream through the fairly long run to it through Curva Grande, With the new proposed layout you will lose that.

  39. The complaints about this layout are pretty nonsensical.

    There’s more to a good layout than slow-corner overtaking opportunities. The great corners are high-speed ones which you approach at speed. Eau Rouge, Blanchimont at Spa. 130R and T1 at Suzuka. Parabolica at Monza. You lose Curva Grande but that hasn’t been a corner since the chicanes were put in, it’s just a curved straight.

    Having the courage to have a kilometre-plus straight with a flat-out corner at the end instead of an obvious overtaking opportunity — to me, that is a courageous decision and is to be commended.

    I do agree with the comment that there’s less need for the second chicane if you do this, at least in its current form. Though you might need to expand the runoff a little, which may not be easy, at the start of Lesmo 1. (There’s loads on the exit but if you go straight on you meet the wall pretty fast)

    While I like the design a lot, one safety problem not mentioned by others is the problem of a fast corner one way followed by a slow one in the opposite direction — this can significantly increase the chance of nasty T-bone collisions such as this one I think it’s alright here for cars based on the designed chicane not being too slow (so collisions wouldn’t be too severe), but it’s a huge problem for bikes and to me makes this layout untenable for top-level bike racing as the chicane is too close to the corner beforehand. It could be fixed with a moderate-speed chicane at turn 1, though — if you’re making these changes, it’s not going to be hard to have an alternate turn 1 for series that find the fast one too insane.

    1. “You lose Curva Grande but that hasn’t been a corner since the chicanes were put in, it’s just a curved straight.”

      This change will remove one of the most historic parts of the circuit, A corner that has been there since day 1 & which is one of the most iconic bits of track on the f1 calender. Yes its easy flat now but so what & the same can be said for most of the high speed/flat out corners like like Eau Rouge, Blanchimont & 130R, There just as easy to take flat in an F1 car now as Curve Grande is & 130R hasn’t been 130R since they opened it up for 2003.

      This change is nonsensical, They removing an iconic, Historic section of circuit & replacing it with a dull kink & rubbish chicane. I don’t get why people are getting so exciting over the dull kink, It will not be a challenge & will be surrounded by masses of tarmac runoff….. whats so special about that? Yes they will enter it at high speed but it will add nothing because it will be easily flat, not much of a challenge & overall nothing special.

      Curve grande has history, Its iconic & even though its basically a curved straight its still a joy to watch cars go through such iconic sections of track, Especially since its an iconic section that consistently produces good racing.

      1. Nonsense. Eau Rouge and Blanchimot 130R etc are far more substantive corners than Curva Grande. Drivers have to use all the road to take them flat-out, and if two cars are side by side going in, one of them has to yield. Not to mention you have to lift big-time if the weather is wet.

        Curva Grande is none of those things. You run side by side no problem. It’s no different in the wet.

        The new corner might be flat-out, but that doesn’t make it easy. Given how skinny the wings they run at Monza are, it will be very hairy — and with it being at the end of the longest straight on the circuit, it will be a place where cars will be wheel-to-wheel at incredible speeds.

  40. That is terrible. It’s a shame what has happened to most legendary tracks.

  41. I wonder how the todays F1 cars would handle a banking? I mean they have done Indianapolis. As Parabolica already is ruined why not put in some S’s after Ascari and lead them to the old last banking getting in something new on the calendar and at the same time something classic. You could everybody forget about Biassono (Grande) and the old Parabolica with that.

  42. It’s a real shame to lose Curva Grande, but the new corner certainly has the potential to be interesting. Also it’s an interesting move to see them upping the speeds in these saftey concious times. Cars could hit 240mph on the straight now, possibly 245, and that new corner looks like 220-ish to me, which is insane and completely unique in F1.

  43. I will sorely miss you curva Grande. Can’t say I care much for the chicane tho, always looked awkward and out of place.

  44. Lol, so first chicane they will remove?

    Or just second. In any case those chicanes are prime overtaking opportunities.

    Monza went with lots of itterations, while curva grande is a historic corner, it is hardly hard to drive flat in a modern race car.

    I am sure without first chicane cars would take it at 360 kph. Maybe even 370 with even skinnier wings.

    Imagine a crash we would have at that speed.

    So replacing curva grande with a few proper, lesmo like corners would be quite amazing, especially if it runs at high speed but not flat, curving to the lesmos.

    It would however hurt overtaking.

    Also raising average race speed… We tend to get shorter race… I am always sad how fast Monza ends.

    1. Ok correction.

      They are removing first chicane, replacing curva grande with a proper corner (easy flat is not a corner, just a curved straight).

      I am all for it. If done right it will be fastest corner of the year.

      1. Michael Brown (@)
        25th May 2016, 20:44

        The only safety issue I see os that if someone were to spin off of the new turn 1, the would crash into cars going through the new chicane.

      2. @jureo “replacing curva grande with a proper corner (easy flat is not a corner, just a curved straight). ”

        But this new corner will almost certainly be easy flat with modern F1 cars with plenty of tarmac runoff on the exit to make it no challenge at all with plenty of room for error.

        Those who seem to think this is going to be some mega, super challenging corner haven’t been paying attention to how much downforce & grip modern cars have or the fact they will have more of both for next year. This new right hander will be nothing more than an easy flat unchallenging kink which will add nothing to the circuit while taking away one of the most historic & iconic bits of tarmac on the calendar while at the same time butchering one of the best overtaking zones on the circuit (The run through curve grande to the 2nd chicane which doesn’t even need a gimmick like DRS to produce overtaking).

  45. Michael Brown (@)
    25th May 2016, 16:52

    They could make the first corner banked to allow some differing lines through there.

    1. @mbr-9 Based on other ‘improvements’ it is probably more likely that they’ll do the complete opposite and make it an off-camber corner.

  46. I think people need to get off their high horses for a minute and actually look at the changes being proposed.
    One absolutely AWFUL chicane is being removed. The Curva Grande hasn’t been a corner worth the name for at least 20 years…Probably longer!
    The new kink is actually tighter than the Curva Grande is now so it would possibly be more of a challenge than now. And for everyone who misses Tamburello, well now it is back!! (Right hander now)
    All the people saying they are destroying the track, just STOP!!! Stop being against change for the sake of being against change and start looking at what’s good about it!!! Do you really think Monza is a better track now than what’s being proposed or are you just trying to save the name of a corner that hasn’t been a challenge to F1 drivers for a very very long time?!

    1. @eoin16 “Do you really think Monza is a better track now than what’s being proposed”


      “or are you just trying to save the name of a corner that hasn’t been a challenge to F1 drivers for a very very long time?!”

      Well neither have corners like Blanchmont, Eau Rouge or 130R so should we get rid of those as well?

  47. Looks like another chicane about the same speed as the second one. At least they’ll carry more speed through it now, and it should make a bit of passing, like the old Hockenheim Ostkurve did.

    Or it could be as dull as the current Imola arrangement. Maybe they should put the DRS between the two chicanes – why DRS the life out of the main straight?

    Monza’s becoming like Silverstone – a safer modern track on the site of an old classic, with every corner tightened or opened out but still a lot of character.

  48. Can’t say that i’m a big fan of this change……. Yeah sure the current 1st chicane isn’t great & Curve Grande isn’t really a corner anymore but that’s no reason to get rid of it. As others have said already its an iconic part of the circuit that has a lot of history to it & has over recent years been the scene of some of the best bits of racing on the whole circuit.

    Something that I would like to bring up also is this new right before the proposed new chicane.
    A lot of comments here talking about it been a real corner & some kind of super fast challenge…… In reality I don’t think it will offer any significant challenge at all because of how much grip modern F1 cars have & let us not forget that they will have even more next season.

    I would also argue that this revised layout will actually be worse from a racing POV because the ‘kink’ (Which is what it will be) will naturally position cars towards the left side of the circuit which will make it really easy to defend the inside line or stay in the middle of the track into the new left/right chicane.
    Then with the shorter, slower run down to the Variante Della Roggia it will be much harder to try something there as the only reason thats the decent overtaking zone it currently is is because the long run from the 1st chicane through curve grande gives a car behind a really good tow & the speed there getting to creates a pretty big braking zone that allows for outbraking possibilities. The shorter run through the revised layout means there approaching it at a slower speed so cars will create less of a tow & the smaller braking zone will make outbraking virtually impossible.

  49. New chicane looks to have a lot in common with Melbourne’s left-right after the back straight curves around the lake. All that has ever happened in that corner sequence is occasionally cars get it wrong and ride the outside curb on the exit and the back end of the cars can flip around like some sort of whale or mermaid tail. There is literally no overtaking there, ever. So that’s what we can expect: on a track that’s basically just a bunch of drag strips connected together, there will be no overtaking outside of DRS.

  50. @keithcollantine Keith is this still happening? I can’t find any recent news updates on it.

  51. @keithcollantine Whatever happened to this proposal?

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