Rio Haryanto, Manor, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, 2016

Haryanto’s seat ‘safe until Hungary’

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In the round-up: Rio Haryanto will continue driving for Manor until at least the Hungarian Grand Prix.

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The top three teams were covered by three-tenths of a second yesterday. But what effect will changing the rules next year have on the competition?

I can’t help but feel that completely changing the rules again for 2017 will be a mistake.

Right now the field is closing up relative to 2014-2015. Mercedes was only 0.2 seconds faster than Ferrari who were, in tune, about 0.2 seconds faster than Red Bull. Similarly, towards the end of 2008, the gap between the teams really closed up, and we saw some qualifying sessions (Q2 especially, without fuel loads) where the gap separating the top 10 was only 1 second or less.

Throughout most of 2012 and in the first half of 2013, we had a fairly close and competitive field (contrary to popular belief). Red Bull really pulled away in the second half of 2013 when most teams gave up on catching them and focused on 2014 instead. What we ended up with in the following two seasons was a field that was very spread out with Mercedes being dominant.

Regulation changes tend to spread out fields. Stability over lengthy periods of time bring the pack closer together as most of the field finds the optimum solution and the cars reach a development peak. The only change I’d make for 2017 is to get rid of the token system altogether.

Anyway, now watch Mercedes crush the field by 30 seconds tomorrow and my theory be proved wrong.
@Kingshark

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On this day in F1

Jenson Button claimed victory in an incident-packed Canadian Grand Prix five years ago today. The McLaren driver passed Sebastian Vettel on the final lap having fallen to 21st at one stage following a tangle with team mate Lewis Hamilton.

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  • 50 comments on “Haryanto’s seat ‘safe until Hungary’”

    1. Really, REALLY wonder why would Ricciardo move to Ferrari in 2018. 2017 is a great opportunity for Red Bull because of all the aero changes and so on. Even today, I’m not sure I’d move to Ferrari! Why would you?

      Sure, Red Bull didn’t really help Dani in the last 2 races, but they gave him more opportunities so far this year than Ferrari has given their drivers.

      Not to even mention the volcano-ready-to-erupt sort of team that Ferrari is. You’d have to either be mad or Romain Grosjean to really hope for a move there.

      1. Because he knows Ross Brawn will be there.

        Shhhhhhhh

      2. In F1, a wise driver always has a Plan B potential contract. Just in case. Not only in case that driver decides they need to leave their current team for any reason, but in case the offer by their preferred team is lower than they would like or to forestall a reduction in quality of treatment.

        So even if Daniel is 100% sure he wishes to stay at Red Bull in 2018 at this point, he will investigate other options. Mercedes doesn’t look to have an opening available to outsiders for the foreseeable future because they will surely promote Pascal Wehrlein next time there’s a vacancy. The only other team with the slightest chance of a title (apart from Red Bull itself) is Ferrari. This is a way of making sure Daniel is not sent back down the order through a late adverse decision from Red Bull, forced into underselling his talent nor treated as the unfavourite compared to Max Verstappen (that threat is plausible, given how Max has been treated so far).

        1. How has Max been treated so far?

        2. Exactly, a wise driver always has option B and maybe even C.

        3. The threat of the Redbull team favouring one driver over the other seems plausible indeed. Once Darth Helmut picks a favourite, the other guy suffers no matter how well they do in the championship. Just read Mark Webber’s book about the years in which dr. Marko favoured Seb Vettel.

          There are differences too though: Unlike Webber, RIC himself is a protegé of the Red Bull driver programme. Also, one would guess that at the time, dr. Marko still had to provide proof to Dietrich Mateschietz that his programme worked.

          Ergo: one would hope that dr. Marko and the team lets both of their drivers have a fair fight. Personally, I expect VES to start out-qualifying RIC towards the end of the season.

      3. Luke Harrison
        12th June 2016, 8:40

        I think the issue with Red Bull is not always wanting to leave, but being pushed out.

        They have a very good driver programme that has some very clear goals. As an F1 driver within the Red Bull family, you only have to look behind you to know what the future looks like.

        We all know Dani Ric is a sublime talent, but in a few years there’s people like Gasly that are going to need a home.

        1. in a few years there’s people like Gasly that are going to need a home

          If he ever wins anything again. The last time he won a race Verstappen was still in karts (I’m getting all the use out of that statistic I can as long as it remains true…)

        2. It’s been a while but the pool is empty at the moment…

      4. A Ferrari seat is a Ferrari seat is a Ferrari seat. The current state of the team doesn´t even matter. You either dreamt of going there for all your life or you shouldn´t go there.

    2. There’s something wrong with that McLaren P1. I agree with Allen. England’s squad is their best ever. The players went too strong on the first half and then most of them dropped of, the subs didn’t worked at all but the talent is there, you just need to put a player on the box at all times… Rashford…

      1. The main issue is the defence and the genuinely awful fullback options available. Most offer next to nothing going forward such as rose, yet he was constantly further up the pitch than Rooney, then Russia simply play a long ball behind rose and the defence is bypassed of the player has any pace. Should’ve put Sturridge on instead of Kane who was very poor, and why they insist on putting our biggest threat in the box on free kick and corner duty is a mystery to me, especially when every single time over the last few matches his delivery has been woeful.

    3. In rwelation to COTD what if the changes were delayed until 2018 apart from the tyres?

      I remember a Motorsport magazine article from either December ’99 or January 2000 where various former f1 figures were interviewed, along with then current driver and former champ JV. He stated that all the regulation change he would introduce would be to ditch the grooves tyres then being used and introduce much wider slick tyres. Sound familiar?

      His reasoning was that there would be an immediate increase in mechanical grip making overtaking easier. In addition the balance between mechanical and aero grip would go further towards mechanical as teams would have to run less wing to compensate for the extra drag of the bigger tyres, making overtaking not easier still.

      Maybe wholesale changes are premature for 2017. How to find out? Maybe a couple of non championship races using 2017 rubber on 2016 cars? Kills both the Pirelli testing request and a chance for fans to watch cars at non championship venues such as mugello, plus see if the 2017 package is really required.

      I’d watch it!

      1. Clay, would the teams necessarily cut the wing levels of the cars, or would they just simply throw more money at engine development to produce more power to compensate for the additional drag? That is usually what happened in the past when changes were introduced that had the effect of increasing the drag coefficient of the cars.

        I am also somewhat doubtful that it would actually work out as he thinks. Jacques’s argument makes the assumption that the car is going to be drag limited in most corners, but I recall an article that Willem Toet produced where he evaluated the relative importance of drag and downforce changes.

        Around most circuits (and this applied then as much as it does now), the cars are almost always traction limited instead of drag limited in most corners – that therefore pushes the teams towards optimising downforce production over drag reduction, since a small increase in downforce would result in a substantially higher benefit than the equivalent reduction in drag.

        In reality, I think that most teams probably wouldn’t cut their wing levels by that much – the increase in cornering performance would probably more than offset the reduction in top speed down the straights.

      2. Teams would not reduce downforce levels. No way.

        1. Actually JV’s opinion was that with the higher drag from the bigger tires teams would be forced to run less wing in order to maintain any kind of respectable straight line speeds. Cornering grip can and should come from a ratio that favours mechanical over aero. So if you have some respectable grip from tires you can afford to run less wing and ensure you don’t get passed any time someone is behind you on a straight. Run more wing on top of more tire grip for higher cornering speeds, fine, but expect to suffer in the straights. I don’t see teams able to simply extract more horsepower out of the pu’s to make up for drag. They’re presumably always trying to extract the max so ‘more hp’ is easier said than done.

          Of course JV’s opinion on this was pre-DRS and pre-hybrids but the principle remains the same.

          Re cotd, I agree with stability of the rules, but right now we have too much dirty air effect. I’m for them seeing these changes through for 2017, not like that’s going to change anyway, and then with wider cars and bigger tires that give them a chance to improve the racing through more mechanical grip, that’s when they should start to stabilize the rules… Not with these current cars, and the horses have already left the barn on that anyway.

    4. Ignore the not. It’s still early in Australia!

    5. – “That’s the talk in the paddock in Montreal; that (Ricciardo) would look to move to Ferrari in 2018.

      If indeed there is meat to the talk then Danny is indeed very sulky if such a word exists. Watching the Montreal driver press conference, I found it revealing from his address of the situation that he still had not gotten over the Monaco incident. His revelation also that he stayed away without communicating with the team for several days over the incident indicates a personality that holds unto misfortune.
      What would he say or do if he were in the shoes of several drivers on the grid whose season has been plagued with misfortunes? What of someone who has a championship winning car yet it breaks down every other weekend?
      Point is Redbull are a very capable and one of the best all round F1 teams. What they lack in engine development, they make up in other arears with strategy being one of their strongest suits. What happened in Monaco is a rarity for Redbull and they wholly accepted blame. I hope Danny can find it in him to move on and continue his sojourn at Redbull because that should be the destination for drivers going into the new regulations.
      Ferrari is prolly not the best place for anybody who wants to stay in F1 for long. It is the premium brand of F1 and a place where champions go unless of course you want to be an outright number 2 driver.

      1. If what you said about Ricciardo handling Monaco aftermath is true, then I think he won’t be a champion for a long time.

      2. When I ask my friends who don’t watch F1 to name an F1 team, almost 100% of them say Ferrari. More than half of them couldn’t even name a second team, one fourth of them indicate McLaren/Williams as the second team, and the other fourth just come up with some random car manufacturer name: Toyota, BMW, Mercedes (which is true), Lamborghini,…

        That’s how big Ferrari is, and it also explains why many drivers/engineers choose to come to Ferrari for no particular reason. It’s the pride of wearing Red I think.

        When Vettel came to Ferrari in late 2014, people said he was afraid of Ricciardo and therefore had to move. As he has proven in the last couple of year, Vettel is a competitive driver and wouldn’t mind a competitive teammate. I think he was just excited to wear Red considering he had 4 WDCs to his name already.

        1. ColdFly F1 (@)
          12th June 2016, 8:40

          @ducpham2708, correct!
          I think that for most WDC’s the next objective is become WDC in a Ferrari.
          (and maybe after that achieving 7+).

          The momentous risk for Ricciardo is that he might move to Ferrari just when RBR takes over from Mercedes.
          That must feel like the career equivalent of doing a 2-stopper from the lead in Spain.

          1. A lot will hinge on who nails their cars for 2017 and throughout the season. DR, if he has the chance, may not consider Ferrari the place to be as 2017 goes along. Much may change in terms of the silly season, so we are way far away from 2018 in that regard.

            1. Red Bull tends to be almost as good as Mercedes on rule changes. And long term it tends to develop fastest and best.

              The moment engines get more or less equall they will be close to the top. Can anyone say same of Ferrari?

    6. In any sport, but surely in a sport where your car can kill you and others instantly, fasting should be banned. It affects concentration and in general it’s very unhealthy.

      1. @verstappen

        fasting should be banned

        As the FIA seems to believe there is nothing that can’t be fixed with yet more rules it’s surely only a matter of time, and we can expect to see ‘force-feeding’ added to the list of penalties which may be handed down by the stewards.

        1. Lol!
          @keith-collantine

      2. @Verstappen Funny because according to the people who do it, fasting is regarded as healthy way of life. I’m not picking sides because I’m no health expert, just showing not everyone think the same as you. As for they fit enough to race or not, I just need the drivers to pass a certain medical checks standard, regardless they’re fasting or not.

        1. William Jones
          12th June 2016, 10:55

          There are plenty of activities that grant long term health benefits, but would make you dangerous to drive a car for a short period of time – running an ultra marathon springs to mind.

        2. In a sport where Schumacher had his blood sampled even during practice, to measure all kinds of levels, it can’t be good to just stop eating. That must do something with your level of concentration – which os a common complaint from people during the ramadan.

          1. Several Nba players and nfl players have said they perform better when fasting. Are you speaking from experience, something you read, or just your opinion?

            1. I apply fasting as part of training.

              But on race day I make sure to eat all the right stuff to get a performance.

      3. @verstappen
        Maybe i can agree with your first point that if fasting will affect Rio’s concentration, he should not race. In my opinion that should be determined by the doctors. As for saying that fasting is very unhealthy that is completely rubbish you just have to google “fasting benefits” and you will see how wrong you are. As a muslim myself, i’m a software engineer working in an international software provider for financial institutions and i can ensure to you that my performance indicators during the Ramadan are the same as the rest of the year, people that often complaint during the Ramadan are chain smokers, they are affected by the lack of nicotine and not by fasting.
        BTW i’m talking to you and i’m on my way to the beach (30°C and 45% humidity, 16 hours of fasting) and i feel great , believe or not.

        1. Let’s agree on the first point then.

          For the rest there’s loads of contradicting information on the internet. All our n=1 (or ‘several’) experiences are just that, experiences.

    7. Good find that article about a Vegas GP being on the doorstep – seeing who wrote it, it gives the context for Bernies statements yesterday about Canada maybe not being on the calendar next year.

      Sure a couple of chinese are going to bring a 100 million with them, that might pay Bernie what he wants. And who knows, it might pay for the first year of yearly costs to prepare the track. But anyone saying they will close down the strip to race there for several days in a weekend should realise just how much loss in revenue that would mean for the other casinos. In other words, it’s just not realistic.

    8. The article on Las Vegas gave me a chuckle due to the following two consecutive paragraphs, pretty poor writing standards for the BBC:

      In March Ecclestone joked that the race contract hadn’t been signed as “the trouble is the pen. The organiser hasn’t got a pen.”
      However, American entrepreneur Farid Shidfar, founder of organising group P2M Motorsports, says this is no longer a roadblock as he has an “agreement in principle” with a Beijing-based conglomerate

    9. Nice one Haryanto. No food or drink during the day. Hm not exactly well rounded religion for a top athlete.

      Science of sports be damned. I am sure Mohamed wouldn’t mind if young Rio replenishes some hydration and much needed nurishment.

      I don’t know if I should be impressed by his ability to stick with Wherlein, or is this Wherlein not that fast afterall.

      I wish they would bring in Rossi. He has indy win now, and would do well to land a Monaco trophy some day.

      More of the same is any team looking to sign Rossi?

      1. You get out much? Or read at all? Thinking or using an inquisitive mind beyond your scope?
        How about drivers that get drunk the night before a race, is that the way to go?

        1. I am sure being drunk before the race is bad for performance.

          1. @Ibrahim @jureo Drunk all night and have sex as breakfast makes you a champion!

      2. First rule of fasting.

        If you are TRAVELING, you have a valid reason to not fast and can make the days up later. Considering Canada is on the other side of the earth from Indonesia, I think that would apply.

        Islam is an easy religion to follow, throughout it we are told that nothing should be an undue burden.
        If you are elderly or pregnant, also excused from fasting.

        It is always interesting to see when any topic related to this comes up, how people will blindly put forth their thoughts on the matter that are based on either racist tinged views, stereotypes, mis information, lack of intelligence, etc.
        When a two second Google search could be very useful!

        1. “It is always interesting to see when any topic related to this comes up, how people will blindly put forth their thoughts on the matter that are based on either racist tinged views, stereotypes, mis information, lack of intelligence, etc.
          When a two second Google search could be very useful!”

          well, this is the internet. Being logical, rational, nice and expecting people to read stuff before commenting is asking a bit much.

        2. … thoughts on the matter that are based on either racist tinged views, stereotypes, mis information, lack of intelligence, etc.

          A religion isn’t a race, it’s a choice @ibrahim, so passing comment on it, however misguided, can’t be racism. If it were a race then it would be racist to insist Muslims can’t marry unbelievers wouldn’t it? As for Haryanto, it sounds like his own religion doesn’t know whether or not he can eat. You have to see that from the outside it looks like a superstitious foolishness.

          The others pay so much attention to diet, it can only impair his performance to have low nutrient levels, and the only reason he isn’t doing likewise is that various people (some but not others as you say) have told him not to, for abstract reasons that are just about a gratuitously divisive power structure.

          Nothing against Haryanto, to be clear, he seems a sweet guy. I hope he has a banana and a great race.

        3. @Ibrahim So what if Indonesia has a race in fasting month? Should Haryanto (if he can race there) do his fasting or not? IMO it’s pretty silly to use an excuse that outside the main problem (travelling rule? when we talked about fasting when doing demanding sport activity)

      3. @jureo
        FYI : The greatest athlete of all time Muhammad Ali was a muslim.

        1. I bet he didn’t fast on fight day.

          Guys dont get me wrong, I have nothing against muslims.

          I have nothing ainst fasting either. I do it several times per month.

          But when I fast and do heavy workout on a fasting day my power is down, my concentration is impaired and I feel light headed, when I deplete my glicogen reserves.

          I do it for benefits that carry over to non fasting days.

          On race day drivers are by their claim under vast physical strain. Like running a marathon they say…

          Well I do long distance running and on a fast day I run way slower.

          As a professional athlete he should do 100% to get any possible advantage over other competitors. If his fasting on race day is an advantage, I am sure other drivers will copy it asap.

          But if he is performing poorly in the car due to lack of nutrients… His bad.

        2. @tifoso1989
          Since when is Muhammad Ali the greatest athlete of all time? How is it measured?
          There were people in his time who could run faster, jump higher and further, and think better than him. I understand he was extremely good at beating the crap out of someone else, is that to be the pinnacle of human achievement?

          1. @tifoso1989 @ph The one who start it is Muhammad Ali himself. He also loves pro wrestling, and pro wrestlers always do promo that exaggerates themselves because they playing larger than life character. Ali thinks its cool and start calling himself the greatest and people just keep repeating it lol.

            1. Google says it.

    10. Believing that an all-powerful being, able to create the universe and all it contains, is at the same time worried so much about
      * you eating before sundown (after is fine)
      * eating meat on a Friday (but Thursdays are fine)
      * having a little bit of your twinkie’s skin removed (but clits are ok)
      * having an important bit of your external vagina removed (but twinkies’ skins are ok)
      * getting a blood transfusion (but a bypass is fine)
      * eating pork (but beef is all right)
      * disturbing a cow (but pigs are all right)
      * … (keep filling in with your favorite religious absurdity)

      All those beliefs are ideas, and ideas can be commented, criticized and also mocked. It is not racism, I will consider that you are an idiot/mentally deranged if you tell me that you believe in the almighty Zeus and I could not care less about which color you are.

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