Jenson Button, McLaren, Monza, 2015

Monza and Imola vying for F1 race deal

F1 Fanatic Round-up

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In the round-up: Bernie Ecclestone has made arrangements to host a race at Imola but the Monza race promoters believe they will continue to hold the Italian Grand Prix.

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Comment of the day

Marc Marquez, Moto GP, Sachsenring, 2016
Marquez won in tricky conditions in Germany
Not being a regular watcher of Moto GP I found this observation from @Velocityboy very interesting:

I watched the Moto GP, IndyCar and DTM.

I found the Moto GP race to be the most interesting this weekend, because of how it was won. In changing conditions, Marquez pitted first for slicks and was 4 to 5 seconds per lap faster than the lead group which were roughly 10 to 15 seconds ahead of him when he pitted. The leading group were told to pit via their pit boards but they all stayed out for several laps before pitting. Eventually the lead group pitted but by the time they had returned to the track Marquez had gone by and he went on to win comfortably.

With all the talk of pit to car radio in F1, it was interesting to see this play out as the riders only had their pit boards for communication so they didn’t know that Marquez had pitted and was significantly faster than them. The decision to pit is solely that of the rider and without pit to bike radio they really only know what’s going on in their immediate vicinity and while the guy I was cheering the most for (Rossi) got the wrong end of this deal, I must say I enjoyed watching it play out.

I think I may now be changing my opinion on pit to car radio and its use.

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On this day in F1

F1’s switch to V6 hybrid turbo engines hasn’t gone well for Renault, but five years previously the company said F1’s “downsizing” was a condition of it staying in the sport.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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  • 60 comments on “Monza and Imola vying for F1 race deal”

    1. I still believe you should add MotoGP to the Weekend Racing Wrap. Since it’s been introduced, it’s the only top tier motorsport series that’s been overlooked, and it’s by far one of the most thrilling sports there is. Yesterday’s race was very good, and very interesting to discuss around here.

      Also, they put a lot of footage in their youtube channel!

      1. It was in there this week @fer-no65!

      2. @fer-no65 I’ve requested @keithcollantine a lot but he said that he hasn’t really been a big follower of the sport.

        In regards to the CoTD, I agree how the race panned out due to lack of pit to bike communications but the CoTD is missing one crucial point, Formula 1 cars are very complicated with the European GP this year being the best example of how a driver struggles to find the right settings without adequate guidance.

        1. @neelv27 So, do we adapt the car or the radio ban rules? What is the easiest and what is the most ‘fun’ for the viewers?

          Is it impossible to drive a F1 car without any help from the pit wall, quite possibly so. Isn’t at all true for the bikes then again they also manage a race and tyres.

          How about a driver can only ask yes-or-no questions? Hehe.

          1. @xtwl, up until quite recently, the riders didn’t have to adjust anything on the bike – the ECU’s were programmed to automatically select the optimum engine map based on the conditions, tyre wear and fuel consumption rate (so, for example, it would automatically switch the rider to a fuel saving mode if it thought that the rider would run out of fuel before the end of the race).

            A good example of that would be Iannone in the 2014 Spanish GP in Jerez – before the race began, he accidentally switched the ECU from a dry to a wet engine map. After about three laps, the ECU realised that it was a dry race and automatically switched to a different engine mapping, with Iannone being oblivious to what was happening until after the race.

            Although the ECU’s have now been simplified, they are still allowed to make some changes automatically – so, for example, you are still allowed to programme pre-set corner specific engine settings into the ECU to take into account local variations in grip levels around the track.
            To a certain extent, the automatic functions in the ECU remove the need for the rider to contact the pit in the first place – why would he need to ask for help on the bike settings when the settings are automatically being changed for him?

    2. @keithcollantine, I know you have a busy schedule and have to earn a living but you really should be following motoGP, if only to see how exciting motor racing can (and should) be, just as F1 once was.

      1. I personally dont find moto gp to be all that interesting as i just cant stand bike racing of any sort.

        i have watched the odd moto go & wsb race over the years as i kept hearing about how great it was i could never got into it, just not into 2 wheels.

        same with nascar, i keep hearing about how amazing the races are but i just dont see it.

        1. OmarRoncal - Go Seb!!! (@)
          19th July 2016, 0:56

          Same here, RogerA. It’s been countless times that I have unsuccessfully tried to follow a racing sport other than F1: IRL, DTM, MotoGP, WRC, A1GP, GP2, Japanese Superformula, FormulaE, Blancpain. I think I’m just too lazy to learn all those many drivers’ names, teams’ names, to remember the liveries, to remember if one team is dominant or not, and most importantly, to remember one the next race is. I care too little about other categories to add them to my alarms or calendar.
          I’m definitely sure I’m an F1 fan, but I’m also sure to be just a casual something-else-is-racing occasional viewer.

          1. OmarRoncal - Go Seb!!! (@)
            19th July 2016, 0:57

            To remember WHEN, not one
            *what a typo!

        2. RP (@slotopen)
          19th July 2016, 2:09

          Bikes are exciting. My problem is they tread very close to the line between sport and death cult.

        3. Nascar is also not my cup of tea, but some races in MotoGP, as the one in Philip Island 2015, are absolutely incredible. If you haven’t watched a MotoGP race in a long time, than that is the one to see. It had literally everything, from fights to position upfront in almost every lap, to a final lap / corner fight for the win between 3 or 4 guys and even a seagul that crashed into the leader’s bike at really high speed.

      2. @hohum The rate the race results have been quite positive this year.

      3. @hohum I do follow it but I don’t watch every race. It’s often on when I’m at BT. But my area of interest is car racing – I’ve never so much as sat on a bike. And I don’t have enough time to watch all the car racing I’d prefer to, so there’s no chance of me investing any more time on Moto GP.

        1. Fudge Ahmed (@)
          19th July 2016, 10:50

          The site is called F1 fanatic, im sure MotoGP aficionados have plenty of other sites to indulge their appreciation for the sport. Why would Keith dedicate even more time to something he has no passion for? And the F1 coverage would lose depth as a result, no thank you.

      4. I like it a lot.

    3. I think MotoGP has gone the same way as F1, just without the name and publicity of Bernie Ecclestone at the front of it all. They had to make the regulations artificial just like Formula One in order to stop teams from gaining advantages, and in order to bring in more competitors they had change the rules to allow what are essentially customer teams, exactly as the proposed in F1 last year. It too (in the UK at least) is now hidden behind a paywall (BT Sports), and while it has had a few different contenders, a lot of the time it will see one rider dominating a race with little challenge. Interesting to note one key issue with the race was that one of the wet tyre compounds didn’t work, and tyres play a huge part in their race now, exactly like F1, but instead of pitting they have a shorter race.

      Additionally, the field is now made up of four front-runners, a few more riders who have been around for a long time with little success, and beyond that is unknown people, many of whom are only racing due to private sponsor deals, essentially like pay drivers.

      The route MotoGP put me off the sport, and actually fuelled my initial interest in F1, and in my view, while some elements have been successful, if F1 were to take inspiration, it would be even worse than it is now.

      1. I second your opinion @strontium.
        I checked the rules of Moto GP and found that privateers have advantages over works team to make the field closer.
        Would you imagine Williams being able to burn more fuel or user more tyres than Ferrari? The uproar that would follow in Italy (and some other places…) after the Reds where beaten?
        I’m not a bike guy and have never been interested in following Moto GP. As commenters on internet keep praising it over F1, I checked out of curiosity how the governing body is running its sport and found they’ve implemented some of the ideas we refuse to hear about in F1.

        The racing’s probably very good, but F1 shouldn’t use Moto GP as a model.

    4. i feel the italian gp should stay at monza.

      imola used to be a good circuit but i feel the various changes over the years have kinda ruined it. they took away the speed after & fast sweepers after ’94, took away a fun, fast, interesting & challenging chicane in ’06 & they took away the other one in the more recent changes.

      also after the post ’94 changes the racing at imola was always rather dull.

      monza has the history, it has the unique atmosphere & is still super fast which helps make it special. watching f1 cars racing between\under the trees at over 200mph is always an awesome sight &would be a sad loss to f1.

      1. an the racing at monza hasnt been dull?
        i think get rid of monza, mexico and azerbaijan have the same and more top speed.

        1. @kpcart No I don’t think the racing at Monza has been dull at all, I think we have seen some very good racing/races at Monza the past few years.

          Its also not just about top speeds but overall lap speeds & monza is still the fastest circuit on the f1 calendar with the fastest average lap speeds.

          @mbr-9 but it was a fun little challenge & as anthony davidson said not too long ago it was a place where balancing the cars over the kerbs was a real skill & a real challenge. if you took too much you lost time but if you took took little you also lost time, you had to get it just right & that is what made it some an interesting & challenging corner. just like the old bus stop at spa & the pre-06 variante alta at imola.

          the current layout just isn’t that interesting, i drove it a lot in assetto corsa & it just isn’t as much fun or as interesting as the older layouts. i ended up downloading mods that allowed the pre-95 & pre-06 layouts & they are far more fun to drive & a far bigger challenge to drive.

      2. Michael Brown (@)
        19th July 2016, 15:56

        I think the last chicane at Imola was pointless and am glad it was removed.

      3. It’s a shame that Monza would go, but I think any F1 fan would agree that an Italian GP at Imola is better than no Italian GP at all.

    5. The first link doesnt work, but reminded me of Prisoner monkeys…. wonder what happened to that guy…

      1. :-) I guess he either gave up on F1, or just on trying to educate us with his superiour opinion when he got a job teaching.

    6. I’m warming to Rosberg immensely. His race interviews are always very cringe-worthy, but his other interviews are great. And he was such a great sport to the fans at Melbourne, coming down from the stage into the crowd to sign autographs for much longer than he was supposed to, and literally into the crowd. Security was having a panic attack.

      He comes across as really sincere, and I’m secretly hoping he wins the title this year. I want Hamilton to trounce Vettel’s records, but I’d be happy if Rosberg got that one championship.

      1. petebaldwin (@)
        19th July 2016, 1:45

        I agree. It’s easy to pick a driver you like and dislike their rivals but I like both drivers. I like their dysfunctional relationship as team mates and even as a British F1 fan, I’d actually quite like Rosberg to do it this year.

        It’s a strange position to be in – British people tend to root for the underdog but doing so means wanting Germany to beat England!?

        1. root for the underdog but doing so means wanting Germany to beat England!? – @petebaldwin

          Don’t worry, you still got football too.

          1. Ummm yeah…..not much joy for Brits there.

      2. I think he always gets cringeworthy questions asked by the Sky crew @selbbin, all too often staging him to be the bad guy in a fight with their focus (Lewis).

        It really gives a nice fight and adds flavour to the championship battle to hear from both of them. And yeah, I do think that it would be good for F1 and for the inner team struggle if Rosberg were to nail the championship next year after he has clearly gone up another notch at the end of last year/beginning of this year. I am really curious to see what Hamilton will then be able to pull out – its great to see both digging deep and finding more speed, racecraft, resolve, etc.

      3. Rosberg is personable @selbbin but he cheats. Serially.

      4. @selbbin

        My fellow McLaren fan, I really hope Hamilton wins at the end of the year.
        The only thing that bothers me is if Rosberg never wins a championship, he would erase Moss’ name from the record books as the most successful driver never crowned champion.

      5. I agree, Rosberg comes across very well in interviews. I very much dislike this whole if you’re a Lewis fan, you hate Nico, and any of these conspiracy lunatics. Two top drivers, both with their pro’s and con’s, in a close competition which at least gives something to talk about in the era of Mercedes complete & utter dominance.

        I’m not really bothered which of them wins the championship. If anything, a Rosberg win would be nice, as it least it would be a change.

    7. Why do people honestly expect Hamilton and Rosberg to be friends in modern F1? How stupid can people possibly be? We are talking about 2 people in the highest, most prestigious and most serious form of international auto racing- who have a package that is a lot better than everyone else, which means they are just as competitive as each other and the championship can only be won by those 2 people. OF COURSE THEY CAN’T BE FRIENDS IF THEY ARE JUST AS COMPETITVE AS EACH OTHER IN THE SAME TEAM! In order to win the F1 world championship, a driver has to be completely and totally 100% commited to his job- the championship has to be of a higher priority than anything else in his life- unless there is one driver who is consistently slower than the other driver in clearly the best car in the field.

      1. There is a difference between on-track and off-track activities. It’s possible for drivers to be friends, even if they’re rivals on the track.

        1. @f1infigures The thing is, they are and will continue to be friends in the long run. They’re both just in their own competitive bubbles at the moment…

          1. Maybe.

        2. @f1infigures, Don’t forget that there are 10’s of millions of dollars per year at stake as well as the prestige and ego gratification. Maybe you could work up an income spreadsheet !

    8. If MotoGP was on this site with Rate the Race feature, one can safely assume that it’ll butcher Formula 1 and many other categories in here :)

    9. Rossi and Lorenzo didn’t pit because they couldn’t get the front tyres working properly in damp conditions. As much time as they were losing by staying out, they would have been slower or off the track if they came in for slicks. Marquez’s aggressive riding style coupled with the fact the Honda works the front tyre well is the reason he was able to generate heat in the front tyre where others (like the leaders) weren’t.

      1. Rubbish !

        1. Not really. Both were struggling in damp conditions in practice. Lorenzo in particular was way off the pace before he went off

          1. Maybe they struggled, but loosing 6 secs (and more at times) per lap is better than a few tenths struggle.

            1. it should be ‘worst’.. rather than ‘better’

    10. ColdFly F1 (@)
      19th July 2016, 8:17

      If teams can now listen to the other radio channels and – as Andy Stevenson says – record and transcribe it, then it should only be a matter of time before it leaks our way.
      I hope that will happen soon, and for us to get some further insights into the cooperation between engineer and driver during a race.

      1. @coldfly It’s interesting in light of Charlie Whiting’s remarks about them getting tougher with the radio calls from Silverstone, because now the teams have greater scope to grass each other up.

      2. petebaldwin (@)
        19th July 2016, 14:07

        @coldfly – I’ve always wanted team radio to be presented more how Indycar’s is. An actual live feed so you hear it in realtime.

        I appreciate it wouldn’t be for everyone but it could easily be done as a “red button” option where you can pick a radio channel to tune into.

        1. @petebaldwin We used to broadcast the team radio live but there were a few instances in 2005/2006 where swearing ended up been broadcast & a lot of broadcasters ended up getting a lot of complaints which they then passed onto us, Thus the decision was made to delay all radio transmissions.

          Providing it all for broadcasters to re-broadcast is something that has been considered in the past & somewhere around 2009/2010 an agreement was reached between FOM & the teams that allowed for that to happen. However I gather that FOM put out feelers to broadcasters & none of them showed any interest in doing it so the idea was scrapped.
          There was actually a whole host of features & extra data that teams agreed to provide/allow to be broadcast & that FOM actually began implementing into there systems but it was ultimately stuff which broadcasters were luke-warm about & a lot of the feedback was generally negative so a lot of it was scrapped.

          I think one thing that did make it to broadcast were those line comparison ghost overlay things that were seen through 2009 & which I think showed up a year or so ago a few times as well.

          I was told that they were going to try & bring those back & use them more frequently but they apparently take a long time to process for broadcast as you have to find 2 cars to compare, find 2 laps you want to look at, hope that the camera your using got shots you can use & then try & cut them out & get everything lined up to make it work as a fair comparison & it was ultimately decided to look at doing other things, Mainly the sort of GPS based 3D modelling that they made available to broadcasters back at the Australian Gp (Which only Sky used over the weekend to compare qualifying laps & the alonso/guttierez crash).

          FOM have more plans for that sort of stuff i gather.

          1. Thanks for your input @gt-racer.
            Such a shame the broadcasters don’t follow FOM on those innovations. I wish FOM would provide them directly online (maybe asking for a few euros), so those interested would get access and enjoy more implication into the sport.

          2. petebaldwin (@)
            20th July 2016, 16:46

            @gt-racer – They’ve used this argument (swearing) in football as to why the refs don’t have mics like in other sports. Simple solution – if a driver swears on the radio, they get a 5 race ban. You can absolutely 100% guarantee they wouldn’t do it!

        2. Totally agree with you, it would add to the overall exhilaration of watching F1. I wish someone would start a petition for the FIA/ FOM, to re-introduce broadcasting live radio feeds, even with some delay (better than nothing).

    11. As expected (also from who ran that story about “imola has singed a deal with Ecclestone”) is just Bernie putting on the screws to finally get a deal signed with Monza.

      1. Yes, my immediate reaction was to remember the ‘deal’ that Bernie did with Donington over Silverstone.

        1. @bascb @nickwyatt It’s clear who he is actually referring to, but the quote might just as easily apply to himself.

    12. I thought the interview with Rosberg was good.

    13. Since the teams can listen to each other then I don’t see why FOM can’t bring back the old radio format.

    14. It would be a desperate shame if the Italian GP does not appear on the 2017 calendar simply because someone at the Italian Automobile Club is trying to strong arm Bernie. Honestly, I would prefer the race to be at Monza, but having it stay on the calendar is the priority and if that mans the race goes to Imola for a period before returning to Monza, so be it.

      Imola is a great substitute, it has history, the Italian fans will still be able to come out in force for their beloved Scuderia and it is a great layout, even in post-94 trim. I really hope everyone involved sees sense.

    15. Re COTD

      I’ve been thinking of this lately, and making the car easier to manage in order to cut the radio link can be done by adding some kind of AI on board that would manage the car. The driver would be of course capable to influence that AI, just like he would do with a radio call.

      Some suggest to go back to simpler controls from the driver with just a few buttons on the steering wheel: radio, pit limiter, drink.
      But I can’t see the advantage of bringing back some dinosaurs dated technology (gear stick, pedal clutch, locked differentials, …) to F1. As F1 fanatics we call for less gimmicks being introduced because we want F1 to be a sport before a show. Wouldn’t reverting back to old tech be a gimmick to improve the show?

    16. Rosberg doesn’t “need” to win the title. Sure. And I don’t “need” to watch f1

    17. Italians are spoiled for choice. Both Monza and Imola are awesome race tracks…

      Bernie is just doing his divide and get paid scheme. No alarm there.

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