Sebastian Vettel has been stripped of his third place in the Mexican Grand Prix following his collision with Daniel Ricciardo.
However the stewards handed Vettel a ten-second time penalty for what they deemed “an abnormal change of direction” which “was considered to be potentially dangerous” when defending his position from Ricciardo.
Ricciardo is therefore promoted to third place ahead of Verstappen, with Vettel fifth. Vettel also received two penalty points on his licence.
The two Toro Rosso drivers were also handed one penalty point each by the stewards. Carlos Sainz Jnr received his for forcing Fernando Alonso off the track and Daniil Kvyat’s was for overtaking Romain Grosjean while off the track.
See the updated 2016 Mexican Grand Prix result and updated championship points standings
Stewards’ verdict on Vettel
The stewards paid particular attention to the Race Directors Notes from the US Grand Prix (v2) and from this event (point 18).
Notwithstanding the F1 Commission directive to “let the drivers race” we note the concern that has been expressed about manoeuvres involving a change of direction under braking as expressed at the Drivers Briefing at the US Grand Prix and in the Race Directors Notes from the US Grand Prix and this event.
The telemetry and video evidence shows that the driver of Car 5 did change direction under braking.
Article 27.5 and the Race Diretor’s Notes have essentially three criteria that determine a breach
1. Driving in a manner potentially dangerous
2. An abnormal change of direction
3. Another driver having to take evasive actionThe video footage, including the close circuit footage, the broadcast vision, both drivers’ on board cameras plus the telemetry show that there was an abnormal change of direction by Car 5 and this was considered to be potentially dangerous in view of the proximity of the wheels of each car.
The video evidence clearly shows that Car 3 had to take evasive action as a result.
Accordingly all three criteria have been met, the driver of Car 5 is guilty of a breach of Article 27.5.
Uzair Syed (@ultimateuzair)
30th October 2016, 23:45
The right decision. Ricciardo deserved the podium more than Vettel and Verstappen.
AceAce
30th October 2016, 23:56
Why? Vettel drove superbly today. Alot of inconsistencies in the F1 community these days be it fans or officials.
Uzair Syed (@ultimateuzair)
31st October 2016, 0:02
I think that Vettel deserved a 5 second penalty but not 10. He deserved to finish ahead of Verstappen who was just driving badly in general.
Valinor
31st October 2016, 0:04
I agree, Ricciardo p3, Vettel p4, Verstappen p5
Arnoud van Houwelingen
31st October 2016, 1:36
Verstappen did not drive badly .. he closed the gap to Ricciardo and after that he closed the gap to rosberg who had a superior car. After that Max pulled a gap to Ricciardo of more the 5 seconds. The only reason Ricciardo could come back was because of what has proven to be the fastest strategie in hindsight .. he didn’t do anything brilliant the whole race and was handed the third place and he was also beaten in quali by Max! Max was just unlucky that his move on Rosberg failed otherwise he would have been second!!
Didaho
31st October 2016, 20:39
Why stop there? Surely he would have passed Hamilton for a well deserved win.
Mark
31st October 2016, 21:57
Mate…..RIC stopped twice to VES’s once…..and still managed to be right there at the end.
mog
31st October 2016, 3:52
The extra 5secs was Charlies revenge.
Get in line foul mouth.
The Duke
31st October 2016, 3:57
Ricciardo should have had to make the move on his teammate but since his teammate failed in forfeiting his position vettel had to battle RIC.
Vettel earned the error he forced on VES and RB should have had to deal with VES playing dirty against his own teammate instead.
Dewald Nel (@ho3n3r)
31st October 2016, 6:50
But with a 5 second penalty, he would be behind Verstappen anyway – and Ricciardo, for that matter.
JCost (@jcost)
31st October 2016, 9:30
The funny part is Max slew down Seb handing Daniel the opportunity to attack. Seb paid too much for Max’s decision not to let Seb past after going off the track.
Mark
31st October 2016, 10:05
Verstappen finished p3, Vettel p4, when they both had received a 5sec penalty, verstappen would still be ahead of vettel…
BasCB (@bascb)
31st October 2016, 6:19
Vettel drove well. Until he did exactly what he (and others) had been critisizing Verstappen of doing for half a year now and what they explicitly asked the FIA to police – moving under braking.
Why if Verstappen does it (when there is NO car next to him) would it be bad, and suddenly Vettel does it and it is not bad? I think he thoroughly deserves the penalty.
And I think he should be handed one more for the moaning all race, calling drivers names. And Certainly for then calling the “referee” what he did.
Didaho
31st October 2016, 20:43
Vettel and Verstappen are peas from the same pod.
IA
31st October 2016, 0:03
So if I’m correct….Vettel is beaten by the Verstappen rule?? ;) talk about Karma
kanan
31st October 2016, 0:04
How is that “Karma”? Do you know the meaning of the word?
IA
31st October 2016, 0:07
well, if I remember correctly….Vettel was the one that lead the parade for installing this “Verstappen” rule…only to get thrown back into his face ;) Yes I know the meaning of the word Karma..do you?
John Steed
31st October 2016, 1:04
The first driver being punished by the anti-verstappen rule is the driver that lobbied the most for this rule. LOL
Zaros
31st October 2016, 1:26
more irony than Karma
Martin
31st October 2016, 4:08
They aren’t mutually exclusive
Arnoud van Houwelingen
31st October 2016, 1:37
i think he meant “bad karma”
Thomas Sosa
31st October 2016, 3:22
He meant “ironic”.
brum
31st October 2016, 0:53
Irony, the word you are looking for is irony
IA
31st October 2016, 0:03
based on what??
Ian Bond (@ianbond001)
31st October 2016, 1:07
i guess they had no choice on the penalty; it should have been Ric, Vet and the shit head kid;
medman (@medman)
31st October 2016, 1:42
“Abnormal change of direction”. Oh, you mean like the direction changes Verstappen has been making for weeks on the straight blocking everybody? Right stewards…..ok.
VMaxMuffin (@vmaxmuffin)
31st October 2016, 2:32
@medman They specifically changed the rules at the request of the majority of the drivers – Vettel being one of them. So Verstappen’s previous moves were within the rules, but as they have since been changed, Vettel’s move today stepped over the mark.
bobec
31st October 2016, 3:37
Doesn’t the new rule apply only for braking zones, meaning Verstappen’s blocking moves on the straights remain legal?
Optimaximal (@optimaximal)
31st October 2016, 7:18
Yes, nobody is complaining about those. It’s his sudden reactive jinks on corner entry in Hungary, Spa and Japan that have drawn ire.
Arnoud van Houwelingen
31st October 2016, 16:35
But action of Vettel was even worse .. In suzuka Hamilton was clearly behind Max whereas Ricciardo was basically alongside Vettel when he moved
Jerry
31st October 2016, 2:14
Too bad they don’t have to rejoin where they went off then that would end all of this foolishness
bogaaaa (@nosehair)
31st October 2016, 2:39
Had to happen or it would made a mockery of the new Rule….drivers cutting corners and leaving the track should be a auto pentalty..unless avoiding debri
Rick (@wickedwicktheweird)
31st October 2016, 7:55
Agreed, not penalising Vettel would have killed
off the rule.
His_majesty
31st October 2016, 9:51
Let them race. The stewards decide where they end up after the races now a days. Was Schumacher and Hill handed penalties with their quarries? Somebody gets penalized if they scratch paint.
Ken Maltby
31st October 2016, 19:08
Totally the right decision in the end. Vettel was not just out of order, for his comments – he was positively dangerous in his driving/braking (he has no ‘inexperienced’ defence)
David
30th October 2016, 23:46
Oh come on…
Vettel is backed into Ricciardo by Verstappen after he refuses to concede a place. Vettel defends magnificently and both cars get through the corner. Cowardly penalty ensues.
Where is the sporting contest in all of this? Seems like the unsportsmanlike driver has won today.
Shame on you stewards.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
30th October 2016, 23:52
Verstappen was not told to concede a place.
James Coulee
30th October 2016, 23:55
He was, by his team, live on the world feed.
just.daz (@nemo87)
31st October 2016, 0:02
They suggested he may have to.
Theoddkiwi (@theoddkiwi)
31st October 2016, 2:27
The stewards don’t instruct a driver to hand back a place. They leave is up to the driver. But if they investigate they get a penalty they were found in the wrong.
When Hamilton had the infamous Spa incident, Mclaren asked Whiting. But his feedback is not binding.
BasCB (@bascb)
31st October 2016, 6:21
the stewards DO instruct drivers (or rather, they inform the team to relate it to the driver) to hand back places @theoddkiwi. Just they often take a few laps to do so, and by then the race was over, that is the reason they handed a 5 second penalty instead after the race
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
31st October 2016, 0:06
They said he may have to, they did not say he had to.
Gabriel (@naylamp)
31st October 2016, 2:52
i don’t think so. they clearly said: give the position. check the link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8bQEpc5hpA#t=0m47s
Martin
31st October 2016, 4:13
He’s say “I think you’re going to have to give the position back” . That is not an order to give it back.
Racerdude7730
30th October 2016, 23:56
Yes he was the team told him to right after it happened
regs (@regs)
31st October 2016, 0:05
It doesn’t matter whatever he was or not. He had to give a way, but instead he was outbreaking Vettel. I’m not a Vettel’s fan, but this time Red Bull went too far by playing with rules. Basically Verstappen went without any punishments, just like he wanted. They should review his penalty up to 10 sec with 3 points.
They should also review Hamilton victory in Austria, as situation was exactly same as Kvyat/Grosjean. But then Rosberg was penalised, this time it was Kvyat. Double standards.
Valinor
31st October 2016, 0:18
So if it doesnt matter, why are you saying he had to give way? If it doesnt matter it comes down to the decision of the driver to choose if he’s gonna goive the place back and for the stewards to decide if its the right decision.
MagillaGorilla (@magillagorilla)
31st October 2016, 1:27
Rosberg was punished for causing an avoidable collision not at all the same, you need to one get your bias checked, and then your eyes. Good day.
bogaaaa (@nosehair)
31st October 2016, 2:10
Spot on Keith he wasn’t
DaveD (@daved)
31st October 2016, 2:52
Technically, you’re correct….so Charlie Whiting should be fined for handling the incident so poorly. Clearly Max was going to get a penalty (they awarded it IMMEDIATELY after the race, so they KNEW). Yet they let Max stay out there and back VET into RIC.
So the entire incident between VET and RIC was because Max wasn’t told to yield the position and Charlie and the stewards could clearly see it was affecting the race.
I’m a complete HAM fan so I have no bias here, just saying that they could clearly see what was happening and yet took no action. If they had backed Lewis into someone I would have been screaming bloody murder and so it’s only fair they should not be allowed to ruin Seb’s race.
JCost (@jcost)
31st October 2016, 9:33
Is it that bad (legally speaking) to use a video?
Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
1st November 2016, 1:28
Maybe I’ve misunderstood this ruling, but it appears to be saying being in front and staying on the racing line is no longer a defence for the driver in front if a car behind collides with you, especially if the driver behind did so while off the racing line, was braking late, and was in the blind spot of the car in front, so the driver of the leading car couldn’t react to avoid the situation.
Dyna
30th October 2016, 23:54
Lol did you watch the same race?
Vettel even admitted he defended while braking out of frustration…..surely thats safer than what Max did before and what Vettel was complaining about so much. He got the rule he wanted and is now punished by it.
F1 finally got more fun!
Valinor
31st October 2016, 0:02
Has nothing to do with Ricciardo. Also backing the car into the car behind is not forbidden. It was Vettel who was moving under breaking, which he got penalised for.
Fact is that Verstappen didnt gain a place when he got off track, he only kept his place. Did he get an advantage? Maybe, but thats for the stewards to decide. If the driver thinks he didnt gain an advantage then offcourse he will keep his place. Was it gentleman-like from Verstappen? No, but Hamilton missed the corner and in other races people also miss corners without gettin penalised. He was ahead, missed the corner and was still ahead. Offcourse he’s gonna keep the place.
And look at the lap times from the previous laps. Vettel and Ricciardo were gaining alot on Verstappen, so he didnt need to push Vettel into Ricciardo on purpose. He was slower anyways so all he needed to do was defend, which he did.
So basically, Verstappen gained an advantage by going off track, got penalised.
Hamilton gained an advantage by going off track, didnt get penalised.
Vettel moved under breaking. Got penalised.
Ricciardo got p3.
All fair penaltys except for hamilton not getting punished.
TacoofAdrenaline
31st October 2016, 0:12
Shameful veredict by the stewards!
When you cut corners you GET an advantage because “you kept you place”. That IS the advantage: you did not lose your place because you cut a corner. (Why that blindness?).
Vettel left enough space for Ricciardo to pass him, but he did not go for it because he saw he could not pull the maneuver in advantage, so he opted to bump Vettel who was defending the injustice of when Verstappen was not letting through. Cheeeeeeky Red Bulls and Stewards…
Valinor
31st October 2016, 0:46
YES and he got penalised for it. But the decision at that moment is the drivers. And if the driver thinks there isnt an advantage then offcourse he wont give the place away! Its for the Stewards to decide if its fair!
Example: Final laps of the race, Vettel clips Hamiltons wing because he turns in on him when Hamilton is trying to pass. Hamilton needs to come in and change front wing. Vettel gets a stop and go. Basically Vettel can go full speed into the pits, do his penalty and drive on and end up infront of Hamilton.
Meanwhile Hamilton has a very slow lap, must pit and looses more time. Fair??? No, but those are the rules.
Other example: rosberg drives Alonso off the track. Gets a 10 place penalty for next race. Fair? No, because it ended Alonsos race and meanwhile Rosberg finished the race and is allowed to drive the next race. But those are the rules.
Verstappen decided he didnt get an advantage and he acted accordingly.
Go watch the video of the pass in slowmo. Vettel drives all the way on the left of the track, then moves all the way to the right side of the track and then in the braking zone decides to cut back again. Meanwhile Ricciardos drives in a straight line and as you can see in the vid, his steer doesnt move, he drives in a straight line.
https://youtu.be/K6xAxJW6qx4
medman (@medman)
31st October 2016, 1:46
Let’s be honest…what Vettel did today does not even compare to the flagrant and obscene blocking done by Verstappen over the last few races, all without penalty. Vettel was penalized because he cussed out Charlie Whiting, embarrassing that man and the FIA in the process, and they sent a message. I don’t believe for one second that the stewards made this decision on their own, without “supervision” from the race director.
TacoofAdrenaline
31st October 2016, 3:32
I think Likewise @medman. Valinor, too many rules (maiden by stewards and not evenly enforced) like you examples denote, and then, let’s not race at all- what is the purpose.
Vettel was rigth on his move.
Today we saw injustice.
Matn
31st October 2016, 6:13
Verstappen could give Vettel a masterclass in perforing this action in a legal way, just like he said after the race. Verstappen knows exactly how to within the rules, regardless how certain fans and drivers feel about it… it’s about rules not opinions.
Verstappen was on first row seeying Hamilton overshooting the corner, surely he would have lost places if he would have braked in time, same goes for Verstappen, ofcourse both out of line, but the stewards coose not the invesitigate Hamilton. So why should Verstappen expect a penalty..?
Just reed between the rules, Verstappen must have known what was coming, but felt the need to proove a point, which he pretty well did.
BasCB (@bascb)
31st October 2016, 6:23
Verstappen never moved when a car was already right next to him though @medman, while Vettel did exactly what drivers had made a point of reminding everone about – how moving with a car already next to you could cause a horrible accident.
I think 10 seconds is still being kind to Vettel here.
Dom (@3dom)
31st October 2016, 19:38
@TacoofAdrenaline now that there is a rule against moving under braking, leaving a car’s width doesn’t necessarily apply. Yes RIC had a car’s width but the reason that the rule has been made to give a penalty with moving under braking is because when they are in the braking zone they are fully on the edge of the level of grip. Evasive action is extremely difficult in that instance because the driver making the move is pretty much fully committed. RIC actually did incredibly well not to make contact with VET, I was marvelling at it for a long while afterwards. But it wrecked his tyres and he lost pace after it. Moving under braking is now illegal, that’s all we need to know, it can’t be justified by feeling that someone has been wronged in some other way, it has to be clear cut.
Manny
31st October 2016, 0:32
Hamiltons advantage was nullified by the deployment of the safety car…….Obvious to anyone who watched the race.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
31st October 2016, 0:42
That’s besides the point. The Safety Car was not sent out to return any advantage Hamilton might have gained.
MagillaGorilla (@magillagorilla)
31st October 2016, 1:30
No it wasn’t, but the fact is it did restore it and let’s not forget that he’d have had an advantage due to the nearest two competitors fighting behind and causing their own investigation. In reality Rosberg was forced off track and gained from it (even if not his fault). This is completely different situation, but had Lewis gained some advantage without any of the post drama I agree a penalty should have been given. Or better yet no penalty given to Verstappen.
Teabone
31st October 2016, 2:00
Let me guess – Hamilton fan? There was no difference between HAM running off on Lap 1, and VES doing the same, except for the fact that HAM was not penalised. Did HAM gain an advantage – yes! He was in real danger of losing the lead if he had been forced to slow down enough to get back on track without using the grass.
Pretty clear cut I reckon.
topo toto
31st October 2016, 8:23
the way i see it is that H amilton should have been penalized because he gained an advantaged. The advantage was not losing positions. He went off by himself and by his mistake and by doing what he did, he avoided losing position and that is an advantage.
JCost (@jcost)
31st October 2016, 9:38
Indeed.
Maybe the should replace that grass by a gravel trap or add some bumpers…
Michael Reilly
31st October 2016, 3:16
Manny is assuming Hamilton would have still been in first place if he hadn’t cut the corner. I don’t believe he would have. Therefore, the safety car did not nullify the advantage he gained.
BasCB (@bascb)
31st October 2016, 6:26
As I saw it, it Hamilton locking up was what gave Verstappen the gap to have a go at Rosberg (as Rosberg had to avoid hitting Hamilton), so in that sense Hamilton gained a lasting advantage because it helped him get his teammate off his back.
But then the incident between Verstappen and Rosberg made in itself slowed down Rosberg AND Verstappen, making it hard to say that Hamilton going off track helped him (or at least it did not help him more than that tussle).
Tigerracer
31st October 2016, 7:04
Its obvious most of u expressing views here hv not been to a drivers briefing prior to a race. If you cared to listen, Martin Brundle on many occasions commented in this and said that during the start on the first few corners of the lap, stewards allow a certain amount of discretion when evasive options are user by the leading drivers to avoid remaining on track and possibke create carnage. Both Hamilton and Rosberg got the benefit of the doubt. In Max’s case it was much later in the race and he did not have 20 drivers following behind him. As a driver , we are advised to avoid this and understand this is for safety and a standard for most tracks in have been to.
Pete (@petey84)
31st October 2016, 6:28
I agree, also on the first lap Hamilton left the track at turn 1 and sped back onto the track at turn 3 yet no investigation.
STG (@salmantg)
31st October 2016, 7:02
+10
Carlos Furtado das Neves
31st October 2016, 10:17
Well said.
This penalty rule is terrible and awful.
Nobody cares if Vettel is “blocked” by Verstappen wich allows Ricciardo to catch him.
Had Verstappen given the place to Vettel, the correct and legitime decision, Ricciardo couldn’t catch him, that’s it !
If the stewards penalise Vettel then they should penalise Hamilton and Roseberg also for leaving the track and gaining advantage, specially Hamilton. These rules are killing F1 ! And are applied according with the “color” of the driver/team (flag color, of course).
Lauri (@f1lauri)
30th October 2016, 23:49
This incident had third car in it – Max on the outside. All other incidents with max was only him blocking the car coming from behind.
Valinor
30th October 2016, 23:50
Doesnt change the fact that you’re not allowed to move under braking. Good decision of the stewards
medman (@medman)
31st October 2016, 1:44
Oh, you mean like how Verstappen has been doing for half the season now, without penalty? Ok….
Pochyt (@tychop)
31st October 2016, 4:56
Yes. You know… That’s why they came up with the verstappen rule…
Dom (@3dom)
31st October 2016, 13:45
The reason that there hasn’t been a penalty for verstappen @medman is that it was previously an unwritten rule. Now it’s an official rule then there are fewer shades of grey and now penalties can be risked out more consistently. People often don’t get punished until they break rules. The rule wasn’t there earlier in the season
Valinor
31st October 2016, 0:03
https://youtu.be/K6xAxJW6qx4
See video, Max was ahead, not on the outside so there was no third car involved in that corner.
dragoll (@dragoll)
30th October 2016, 23:50
What a farce
ColdFly F1 (@)
31st October 2016, 6:02
Or what a fair outcome, @dragoll:
– VES was rewarded with a third to the checkered flag and parking in the stadium.
– VET with a podium ceremony and the press conference
– and, RIC with the points for 3rd.
All had their moments of joy.
BasCB (@bascb)
31st October 2016, 6:28
Nice one there @coldfly, and a positive way to look at things!
Also this helped them not having a fight right there and then, so good job of “disarming” the situation
dragoll (@dragoll)
31st October 2016, 6:37
@coldfly I see your pov, but I disagree. I think this is a classic example of how the FIA created a situation because they were too slow to react.
petebaldwin (@)
31st October 2016, 10:06
Must be the first time a driver finished in the top 3, a different driver took the podium and another driver took the points!!
Jason (@saint-jay)
30th October 2016, 23:50
That’s rubbish seeing as it was Verstappen backing Vettel in Ricciardo in the first place.
Certainly a dangerous precedent and I don’t look forward to other teams copying it.
Dyna
30th October 2016, 23:56
You do realise its racing and not a chess game?
pete
31st October 2016, 0:37
You do realise that it is racing and backing cars is allowed. Also who says Verstappen was backing Vettel into Ricciardo when Ricciardo was catching Vettel up to a second a lap.
Ricciardo would have reached Vettel regardless of what Verstappen did.
Valinor
31st October 2016, 1:13
Indeed. Sounds alot like with football when 2 players attack and corner the player with the ball. Some people instantely scream: 2 on 1!!!! Not allowed!!!
Its allowed people.
pete
31st October 2016, 1:45
Not just this, people tend to forget that Vettel was catching up to Verstappen at least 0.5 second a lap while Ricciardo was up to 1 second faster than Vettel at that stage of the GP. You could also argue that Verstappen was just going slower anyway because his tires were like 20 laps less fresh than Vettel’s. As opposed to the whole backing up complaints.
This isn’t precedent, it’s been in F1 for a long time from Saubers helping out Ferrari by delaying competitors or likewise for TR.
Didaho
31st October 2016, 21:04
“He has to let me go” VET wailed.
I concurred with the wailing – he’d pushed VES hard into a big mistake (rather than sit behind as we’re used to seeing a red car do).
Is it ironic that VES finished 4th?
STG (@salmantg)
31st October 2016, 7:03
+10
petebaldwin (@)
31st October 2016, 10:09
It’s allowed but its not good sportsmanship IMO. Backing a driver into someone is one thing but when you’re only ahead because you broke the rules, it just doesn’t sit right.
petebaldwin (@)
31st October 2016, 10:11
What is stopping them sending a car out underweight or using too much fuel to get in front and slow others up for their teammate?
I know this wouldnt happen but it’s roughly the same thing. Cheat to be in front and then slow down to help your non-cheating team mate.
Lee1
31st October 2016, 10:31
I am sorry, but this has been happening in F1 as long as I can remember. In fact as Ferrari are probably have done this more than any other team (Especially in the schumacher era).
markopoloman
30th October 2016, 23:51
Vettel was one of the main drivers wanting the ‘max’ rule implemented… So it is fair that when he does the ‘max’ move, he gets penalised.
John H (@john-h)
31st October 2016, 8:50
This. By the way, Verstappen should have just been instructed by Charlie to let Vettel past during the race, then none of this mess would have occurred.
The Hamilton incident was a little trickier, because they would be handing the place to Rosberg after he’d also taken a shortcut (albeit one instigated by Max).
Anyway Karma for Vettel. No I didn’t like his language aimed at the race director.
AntoineDeParis (@antoine-de-paris)
30th October 2016, 23:51
Amazing drive not to be forgotten- to me inspirational.
Beautiful stint on softs.
bows down
Dyna
30th October 2016, 23:58
Indeed, even though i find Vettel crying too much on the radio he did a marvelous job on his first stint.
Anuk666
30th October 2016, 23:52
So RBR drivers will do that more often, congratullation FIA…
To the Max !
31st October 2016, 0:41
Verstappen did that last week at Austin to Kimi too.
From now on they just have to drive behind other drivers and wait for them to brake and dive to the inside when it isn’t covered. The “Verstappen-rule” has left the defending party almost powerless to do anything any more. All they can do now is cover the inside line into corners as a defensive move and hope for the best.
John H (@john-h)
31st October 2016, 8:51
No it hasn’t. You just don’t move in the braking zone when the other guy can’t do anything to get out of the way. Since when was that acceptable driving anyway? I don’t understand anymore.
Michal (@michal2009b)
30th October 2016, 23:52
I thought something good has finally happened for Ferrari… a move was questionable so I won’t complain, it does not make a big difference anyway as the season is lost already.
Third driver takes third place haha.
Yes (@come-on-kubica)
30th October 2016, 23:53
Lol they should have annouced this in the middle of the podium ceremony. Feel it’s harsh considering what some drivers have been getting away with. It was a late move by Ricciardo and there was space left by Vettel. I wonder why Nico/Kimi wasn’t investigated as well. The stewarding today is what really angers F1 fans. I’ll be intrigued to see what will happen next time in Brazil.
Racerdude7730
30th October 2016, 23:59
Well after his outburst on the radio do you really think they would let him keep 3rd. They had to find something to hit him with since he probably upset them by telling them what everyone wishes they could.
joe jopling (@jop452)
31st October 2016, 21:15
Think Seb was lucky with the stewards….after that outburst I am surprised he wasn’t disqualified…..bringing the sport into disrepute…….and we have not heard the last of this incident….
ps all this aggro is taking us away from the most boring GP (possibly) of all time
kiera
30th October 2016, 23:54
Total rubbish, I am getting so sick of these penalties, there’s hardly any passing or ‘racing’ going on and then every time someone has a go they end up with a penalty.
Both Ricciardo and Vettel made it through the corner, Vettel left a cars width, no more, no less which was fair, very light contact was made and both finished the race fine.
Fernando Alonsos dive in Austin was far worse and nothing. No consistency in these rulings, makes the whole spot look stupid.
Trying to explain it to friends this morning and they just shake their heads.
Valinor
31st October 2016, 0:22
I agree, but it was Vettel who was one of the people wanting this rule. So basically his own fault for getting the penalty.
They should remove all the damn ‘how to drive’ rules and let the drivers race again. Also DRS should be thrown out. This isnt racing anymore.
Basically the car behind you gets DRS and meanwhile you are not allowed to defend…….. Awesome racing
MG421982 (@)
31st October 2016, 5:48
I think RAI started it, not VET. Then, I hardly believe they changed the rule just because VET opened his mouth and shouted against it.
Then again, how do you know VET was moving under braking and not taking the corner at that moment?!?! What I can see is that he started to dive into the corner in that so-called move to the left under braking.
Valinor
31st October 2016, 10:10
If you watch the footage in slowmo, you can see the normal line into that corner, that Verstappen is taking. Then watch Vettel, going from the leftside all the way to the right side of the track to also take that lin but then last minute cutting back. Not allowed.
Radoye
30th October 2016, 23:54
Justice has been done with regards to Ricciardo, he deserved the podium fair and square, but it makes no sense to have Max rewarded for his antics by placing him in front of Vettel.
I was expecting a hefty fine for Vettel re: language though.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
31st October 2016, 3:11
Quite true – I hope that none of the 10s was influenced by the language, as that wasn’t driving standards. A monetary penalty, and possibly penalty points should have separately dealt with the language issue.
Didaho
31st October 2016, 21:10
Agreed – monetary penalty was the way to go, and it should’ve gone to the sign language person for the effort required to translate the sentiment accurately.
STG (@salmantg)
31st October 2016, 7:06
+10 … Agree he should have been ahead of Max as max should have given the place to vettel…this is insult to injury…
MG421982 (@)
31st October 2016, 7:58
On what basis did RIC deserve that podium? He did absolutely nothing spectacular to deserve it. Performance-wise, VET or VES deserved it. Yeah, VET deserved a penalty for that language, but what that has to do with the racing itself?!? Nothing. So, a monetary penalty is the way to go here.
Didaho
31st October 2016, 21:16
RIC didn’t get the podium but assuming you mean 3rd, was it on the basis that he drove well enough to overcome utterly compromised strategy to catch & then not crash into either one of the self-entitled front runners?
V1
30th October 2016, 23:55
Sad, but fair.
Newfangled (@newfangled)
30th October 2016, 23:58
Correct decision. I rescind my earlier comment on a previous article highlighting my bemusement at a lack of consistency by the the stewards, but my, what a farce to get here. Doll out penalties in one fell swoop, not over a period of hours post-race. Dreadful officiating. Gosh, I bet Vettel’s even angrier now!
mog
31st October 2016, 5:37
Consistent except for ham cutting the fist corner….
AceAce
31st October 2016, 0:03
Don Bern and his Capos were probably outraged that one of their robots put his foot outside the conformity factory.
Michael Brown (@)
31st October 2016, 0:03
Bah, Verstappen doesn’t deserve to be ahead of Vettel.
magon4 (@magon4)
31st October 2016, 9:30
+1
OkiF1
31st October 2016, 0:07
To be completely fair, HAM should get his penalty too. Only RIC and ROS have demonstrated to be gentlemen in the leading positions. PER did the right thing when he passed MAS on turn 1. Probably ROS would have won the race. But we all know that Charlie and Mr. E are clearly pushing HAM. ROS is not convenient for F1 accorting to the stablishment.
Pete (@petey84)
31st October 2016, 6:30
+1
Rick
31st October 2016, 10:21
I would say only RIC actually. ROS cut the 2nd corner on the first lap, he could have back off and slotted in behind VES but he simply turned left over the grass and maintained his position.
KevinY
31st October 2016, 15:47
There was no room on the track at that moment. He could have returned there but it would have been unsafe and resulted in a crash
x303 (@x303)
1st November 2016, 17:00
Here we go again: the conspiracy theory is back! @petey84
Tony
31st October 2016, 0:07
Whahaha. Now he has something to cry about…..supporting the rule under braking….
Stupid rule anyway. I liked the racing! (from Seb as well)
Raul
31st October 2016, 0:07
And what about Hamilton ?
Arnoud van Houwelingen
31st October 2016, 1:39
Why didn’t Hamilton get a penalty for this
petebaldwin (@)
31st October 2016, 10:16
Because it would make Abu Dhabi less exciting. Sad but true.
x303 (@x303)
1st November 2016, 17:03
Applying a penalty post-race would not change its outcome.
And I don’t think it would have changed anything as Hamilton would have pushed more to stay ahead of Rosberg who was struggling all week-end with his car @petebalwin.
By the way, where is your protective hat?
Rick
31st October 2016, 10:23
Because they would have had to give ROS a penalty too for cutting the next corner, and some leniency tends to be applied to first corner incidents.
mfreire
31st October 2016, 0:09
WHAT? That is completely outrageous. The FIA are just finding some way to punish Vettel for his choice of English towards Charlie Whiting. Vettel was entirely fair with Ricciardo- Ricciardo could have made it through without hitting Vettel. This is just another example of how over-regulated F1 is in many different ways.
VMaxMuffin (@vmaxmuffin)
31st October 2016, 2:35
Ricciardo could not have made it through without hitting Vettel. He was already committed to maximum braking performance when Vettel started coming across. So he had no choice but to lock up the brakes and do his best.
Euro Brun (@eurobrun)
31st October 2016, 0:13
We’ve been robbed of a shoey!
Aapje (@aapje)
31st October 2016, 8:05
Thankfully!
Didaho
31st October 2016, 21:18
I just hope he wins Sochi next year.
hoshino (@hoshino)
31st October 2016, 0:17
2018 F1 Rules:
– Wheel-to-wheel battles are not allowed.
– Drivers must overtake only with DRS at the special zones on the track.
– Halo.
F1 is finally great again.
No, seriously. This lasted just for 1 corner, but it was the most interesting moment of the race. Two professional drivers are fighting wheel-to-wheel. Tough but clean. They can do it clean and safe, because they are F1 drivers. Best of the best. But they get penalised for this. I’ve got one word for this: shame.
Dyna
31st October 2016, 0:29
They will al drive Tesla model X in 2018 so they dont have an advantage on the other teams…..
Imre (@f1mre)
31st October 2016, 7:23
Also in 2018 rules:
– Drivers will be shown blue flags when an other driver is within 1 second behind them. No matter if he is to be lapped or not.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
31st October 2016, 0:18
One consequence from this is Ricciardo is now confirmed in third place in the drivers’ championship:
https://www.racefans.net/2016/10/30/2016-mexican-grand-prix-championship-points/
Alex Brown (@splittimes)
31st October 2016, 0:20
All this achieves is to make the stewarding of F1 look poor. This is a mainstream, internationally followed, live-televised sport and should be better run. A club race can afford the occasional post-race change in classification. In the UK and Euro timezones, the result is literally changing overnight. Kvyat left the track during an overtake and received a penalty. Alonso did the same twice in Austin, but didn’t. Here, if the race officials had taken decisive action early, to instruct Ves to cede the place, the following farce wouldn’t have occurred. And the injustice of delaying a decision is highlighted by FOM choosing to broadcast Vettel’s comments.
Driving standards are a mess for two reasons, which Keith has brought up often: the tracks don’t punish mistakes (a kind of remote policing) and the rules on defensive driving are now too complicated. There was a recent directive that allowed moves that left a car’s width (which Vettel did). Has that been rescinded? Are these directives and clarifications written into the sporting code? Are they rules? Do they go through the same ratification process? Will there be another next week in knee-jerk to all this?
I’m tired of it.
STG (@salmantg)
31st October 2016, 7:11
+10..stewards should also be punished for inconsistencies…who is going to that?
joe jopling (@jop452)
31st October 2016, 21:20
Poor Charlie…..he has just been told on World Wide TV to **** himself…..and now you want to punish him further!!!!lol
OOliver
31st October 2016, 7:38
The race stewarding is absolutely rubbish.
Perez did the same thing to Kvyat in Texas, yet they went ahead to penalise Kvyat.
The next race, they penalise Vettel.
These stewards, guest or whatever, insult the fans who watch these races.
Jorge Lardone (@jorge-lardone)
31st October 2016, 0:29
Vettel 4°, then Vettel 3°, then Vettel 5°!!!!!!!
F1 the pinnacle of motorsport? That is a bad joke…
STG (@salmantg)
31st October 2016, 7:11
+10
bull mello (@bullmello)
31st October 2016, 0:43
Maybe next week they can announce a complete rearrangement of the race results.
Stunning that it took so long after the race to decide this penalty when the other penalty was decided in a matter of minutes. Quickly enough to get the now wrong man to the podium to replace the previous wrong man to the podium. Anticlimactic to say the least.
John G (@jfever78)
31st October 2016, 0:44
I watched Verstappen’s and Hamilton’s first corner cut each about a dozen times, and it looks like Hamilton might not have been able to make the corner had he tried, and Verstappen could have pretty easily made the apex had he tried. That’s a big difference I think, cutting the corner, instead of going for the apex and probably losing a position. Hamilton wasn’t being challenged by anyone either, so there’s that too. Vettel and Ricciardo is a shame, I like to see racing, but I guess that move was a little late.. Also, I think the rule about moving under braking, was to stop a driver from chopping some one off in front of them, not so much for squeezing them laterally, which isn’t anywhere near as dangerous. Both of those guys showed amazing car control and limit braking there, very impressive. I like to see good racing, and that was exciting stuff. I’m sort of on the fence with this one, I can see both sides of the argument.
MG421982 (@)
31st October 2016, 7:21
Yeah, I don’t think that HAM could have avoided going on the grass, that fast he was going. Still, that doesn’t make HAM innocent. Plus, it could be that he made it on purpose given that particular moment – the start. If we’re so sure that MS and NR parked their cars in the past in Monaco to imped the others, then how can we be so sure HAM did not made all that on purpose?!? His start wasn’t very good compared to the others, then he positioned himself badly for the coming corner trying to defend. So, guess what, a brilliant idea: pedal to the metal, brake so late that there’s no way to take the corner… and simply cut the track. Result: avoided possible collision(s) and/or losing any place(s) that would have resulted in diminishing his title chances.
JohnBt
31st October 2016, 8:30
+100
I was scanning if anyone posted that Ham premeditated his move.
Lew was nervous during post race, like a guilty puppy.
Also covering up that he had so much vibrations from the flat spot.
At the moment Ham and Max can do no wrong. I rather more swearing from drivers than schoolboy obedience.
Race was so boring and the penalties given, allowed us to discuss how fair and unfair, depending on who you support.
The inconsistence stewarding is appalling, honestly. F1 is broken for sure.
Rate the race at 4/10.
John H (@john-h)
31st October 2016, 9:47
You don’t lock up on purpose… well, at least if you’re not at Monaco ;)
MacLeod (@macleod)
31st October 2016, 10:18
Swearing isn’t that bad but if you watch the whole weekend P1-3 Q Vettel was constant putting down riders (idiot ect.) Which is a difference and he ends with a bad one against a referee.
x303 (@x303)
1st November 2016, 17:08
Bernie and Lee Oswald suggested the move to Hamilton. After hearing fro Kubrick on the shooting of the moon landing.
Conspiracy theory, really? @corrado-dub
ARizos
31st October 2016, 0:45
More than disappointed…
I thought it was a hard but fair racing – an aggressive move from RIC on the inside and defending on the edge by VET, making it the most enjoyable part of the race. And now this penalty – what a farce for a racing series…
There is a difference between changing direction under high speed at the beginning of the braking zone and tightening your line just before the apex in a slow corner. VET left a car’s width. What is he supposed to do – leave the door fully open for RIC ambitious move? As much as I don’t like VES immaturity, that’s what VES did with HAM in Japan and I thought it was fair racing as well.
So how can you defend an aggressive dive on the inside from now on?
I was telling my wife before the decision had been made that if VET was punished for that defending, that would be it for me watching F1 (I know, big loss for F1 ;-) ). Adios, at least for now, to the sport that I have been following passionately since my early teens in the 80s.
George (@george)
31st October 2016, 1:19
Before the braking zone. You either cover it or you hope he overshoots, you can’t just cross onto his line while you’re braking.
ARizos
31st October 2016, 7:35
The problem with this defensive tactic, in case the attacking car overshoots just slightly: In this type of corner (with the immediate right-hander following it), you cannot cut under/inside the attacking car and accelerate ahead (since there is no straight immediately after). So if the defender sticks to the racing line, the attacker has the flexibility to use all width of the track post-apex to sort himself out, finish braking and not lose out in the next corner.
My own take is that VET didn’t cross into RIC’s line – he tightened his own line, making it more difficult for RIC to dictate the post-apex line of the cars.
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
31st October 2016, 0:50
LOL, it was like a double tag, mexican wrestling.
Poor Vettel, he was mugged from front and back… and then demoted to fifth for good measure.. HAHA.
He will be unbelievably angry.. And all of this largly unfair… But, he did break the word of the law… and penalty is justified. Verstapen striped of his podium aswell, also justified totally and Riciardo, who was only one semi-innocent there, got it.
Elizabeth
31st October 2016, 7:51
I lost my respect for Red Bull and their drivers who still need to be in kindergarten, where they can carry on with reckless bullying in the playground and thereafter the teacher can spank them.
I am very disappointed in Ric who tried to take advantage of the situation. Just remember Verstappen, Kvyat and Ricciardo….. if you live by the sword….you will die by the sword. No more Red Bull Jackets for me!!!
Why so concerned about Vettel swearing…..no problem when people watch movies….???
Didaho
31st October 2016, 21:25
I just don’t get this.
OmarRoncal - Go Seb!!! (@)
31st October 2016, 0:54
I really hope Charlie and his staff can at least be consistent with their awful decisions. So Vettel insulted the guy? Fine him. This is a low punch coming from Whiting. And I agree with some others here. If Verstappen was deemed guilty, so I think an obvious consequence of not giving the place right away was putting Sebastian under Ricciardo’s pressure. And then came Seb’s foul.
If you spit on someone’s face and then that guy is chasing you and accidentally bumps another person, it was YOUR fault for provoking the situation in the first place.
F1 is a joke.
Pochyt (@tychop)
31st October 2016, 5:13
Charlie gave him a taste of his own (Verstappen rule) cookie…
F1 needs to get rid of these rules, and let the drivers race again.
Cutting corners would still be a no-no. This should be enforced by time delaying obstacles. For the rest it’s the same for all drivers. Let them race. Get rid of the artificial parts like DRS & tyre deg. Get rid of the fuel economy. This is F1, supposedly the max of motorsport.
Duncan Snowden
31st October 2016, 1:05
Right outcome, wrong reason.
bogaaaa (@nosehair)
31st October 2016, 2:47
Ric would not of wanted this way..a joke
kanan
31st October 2016, 3:46
Actually, he pretty much said that he did. By complaining about Vettel to FIA and even saying to media that he didn’t deserve 3rd.
joe jopling (@jop452)
31st October 2016, 21:25
Ric meant that Max deserved 3rd not Vettel……
MarkM
31st October 2016, 1:28
well, to be fair, if max did the right thing and give Vettel the position then Vettel would need have been backed up into Ricciardo they way he was, this is unfair in my view.
In the future to avoid any of these “gaining advantage going off track” they need to make it more difficult to come back on the track if you outbreak yourself or make a mistake. With todays circuits that look like autocross courses with pylons in a parking lot, there is no punishment of going off track. This has to change and these problems will not turn into the drama that they have been. Its that simple.
skynet83
31st October 2016, 1:37
just for telling Charlie to F off he should get a penalty. spoilt sht
Friederike (@rike)
31st October 2016, 4:16
Yeah but not in placing, fine him financially
Andre (@lheela)
31st October 2016, 1:38
Great “teamplay” by Red Bull.
If VES had not playstationed the first corner, VET would have been in no need to defend against RIC in the first place.
While RIC himself did nothing wrong, I feel he should not benefit from a foul move of his team mate.
What this tells us is, if you want to benefit your #1 driver, just use your #2 driver to commit fouls and you will get away with it. I guess if Ferrari had known that in 2010 and 2012, Alonso could be a four times WDC right now.
Miane
31st October 2016, 1:39
1. It’s something more than common and obvious on F1, if you keep or gain a place in a dispute by going outside of the track, you have to concede the place. It’s pretty clear to everyone that Verstapen already had lost the dispute and the place at that corner.
2. In Hamilton case on the start, Rosberg wasn’t going to overtake him so it’s a completely diferent case. And he did it not in a defensive manouver but for a mistake. Maybe he deserved 1-2s at pit stop, nothing more than that.
3. Vettel defended his place “agressively” because Verstapen didn’t followed the rules. Stewards are to blame for not taking instantly action. It’s ridiculous those “after race” investigations.
Basbozz (@basbozz)
31st October 2016, 1:41
Thanks to all this stewarding, i got my predictions exactly right!
Robert
31st October 2016, 2:09
That’s 4 non DRS passes!
montreal95 (@montreal95)
31st October 2016, 2:12
Pathetic. For 2 reasons: First, this was not the Verstappen sudden swerve. This was quite a gentle move with enough time to react for DR. But second and worst, is: if you’ve decided that the abruptness level of the swerve doesn’t matter, fair enough, give a penalty. But why the penalty is bigger than the penalty for the worst offender who had caused the whole situation? For SV to be behind MV in the final results is very unjust. Not only Verstappen kept position unfairly for which he was justly penalized, but he deliberately stayed ahead despite pleas from RBR to give position to Vettel, all in order to back Vettel into Ricciardo
So, MV’s unsportsmanlike conduct brought RBR a podium. In other words, crime pays. Handsomely so. Mad Max will keep that in mind
VMaxMuffin (@vmaxmuffin)
31st October 2016, 2:46
Just because there was time for Ricciardo to react doesn’t mean there was anything he could do. Whilst this may not have been an abrupt swerve, like Verstappen was doing, Vettel did it after Ricciardo was already committed to maximum braking and couldn’t react any more than he did. He locked up the brakes and tried to turn left as much as he could.
BasCB (@bascb)
31st October 2016, 6:33
I disagree there, @montreal95 Ricciardo was already next to Vettel when Sebastian moved towards him. That is exactly what drivers, including Vettel himself, have clearly asked to be strictly penalised by the stewards only a race ago because it can be dangerous. Daniel had no option to then suddenly move somewhere else, out of the way.
montreal95 (@montreal95)
1st November 2016, 1:56
@bascb @vmaxmuffin As I’ve said above, I can live with penalty to Vettel, no problem, but I cannot agree with Vettel being handed a worse penalty than Verstappen who had caused the whole thing, and Vettel finishing above. Now Mad Max thinks himself a genius, smarter than RBR pitwall, who told him to cede the place, even, like he’s the one who’d given the podium to the team. The reality is of course very different. However, he will continue to act accordingly and worse, like the spoiled brat that he is. F1’s treatment of Verstappen is akin to useless parents who , instead of educating their spoiled genius child, are giving in to all his demands. What’ll come out of that is clear to see and it’s nothing good
BasCB (@bascb)
1st November 2016, 5:44
But @montreal95, Red Bull did NOT tell Verstappen to hand that place to Vettel. His engineer just said that he thinks that Verstappen will probably have to do so. Verstappen waited for the Stewards to decide, and they did decide after the race.
In this weekends race Vettel was far more like the spoiled brat, maybe that stems from RBR having been far too forgiving of his actions in the past, paired with frustration over Ferrari being what it is. He should have kept a cool head and he would have been 3rd instead of 5th. Racing angry (just like doing most things angrily) is always more likely to cause accidents, Vettel has enough experience to know that.
montreal95 (@montreal95)
1st November 2016, 15:53
@bascb I’ve heard watching live the team telling him to give the place back. Maybe I’ve misheard, I need to re-watch this
But, in any case, I don’t agree with Vettel being the spoiled brat. Sometimes he is, but not this time. I mean, he drove a brilliant race, which deserved a podium only being denied by this BEEP BEEP BEEP of a lying, cheating teenager who thinks himself above the sport having just arrived in it. There’s rules for everyone and there’s rules for him. He comes along and breaks pretty much every unwritten rule in the book. Now I know what you’ll say, unwritten rules are not really rules but that’s just pathetic. These were based on drivers behaving as gentlemen, which Max clearly isn’t. So now there’ll have to be a Written Verstappen Rule for everything which should’ve been obvious without writing it anyway. Thanks for that Max!
Really, if there was my all time favorite driver Alesi there instead of Vettel in such a situation the list of beeps would be twice as long(really some PC loving enthusiasts are lucky there were not radios broadcast in the 90’s, their ears would fall off), with special mentions not only to Charlie “should’ve retired years ago” Whiting, but to Jean “most useless FIA president ever” Todt as well. And if I was there? Thrice as long. And I’m not gonna apologize for what I just said. not everyone can be a model of Nordic calmness with huge amounts of adrenaline pumping thru their veins
I also disagree that the move to inside and breaking, what will be called in the future, Verstappen rule No. 1 is what lost Seb the podium. Who’s to say that DR’s move would not have succeeded? Ricciardo is one of the most successful dive bombers in the history of F1, I can say already. His feel for the brakes is unbelievable. What ends in tears for other drivers, for him enters into the “best overtakes of the season” compilation. And Seb knows that as well as anyone. So it might be that he only lost a guaranteed 4th place and not a podium and don’t think he cares about that too much…
BasCB (@bascb)
1st November 2016, 16:47
About this I’ve heard watching live the team telling him to give the place back. Maybe I’ve misheard, I need to re-watch this – FOM only played part of the conversation (see Keiths race radio article for the rest where they end with “stay there”).
I don’t really have an issue with strong language being thrown around @montreal95. To me though, it seems that Vettel has been getting more and more impatient the further success slips from their hands this year. The trouble is, it seems to get to him while driving. Instead of keeping a clear head and just getting into a good drive, he is constantly abusing the radio channel.
You might be right about how Vettel might have lost a place to Ricciardo anyway if he had not moved over to block him. But had he been less focussed on Verstappen and telling the world about his frustration, possilby he wouldn’t be in that position in the first place, because of having watched his back more.
I do disagree with you about the view on Verstappen. But that is just a matter of points of view, so let’s leave that one aside (I am always surprised about the “hateful” kind of remarks towards other people from otherwise perfectly reasonable people discussing things)
R
31st October 2016, 2:15
Vettel lost his cool and before he realise Ric was all over him then he got no other option but defend. He deserve the penalty just for loosing his cool. starting to hate Max
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
31st October 2016, 2:28
Say what???
Vettel got a 10 second penalty for defending against Ricciardo while being sandwiched by the Red Bulls after Verstappen gained an unfair advantage.
And Rosberg gets no penalty for Spain where he took out Lewis causing a double collision and also stealing the championship?
Makes a lot of sense! The stewards are insane, period! I would understand a penalty for his comments but not for his driving…
BasCB (@bascb)
31st October 2016, 6:37
Eh, it was Lewis who caused that accident in Spain more (by a smidgen) than Rosberg. Both lost points, but Rosberg MORE because he was in the lead @freelittlebirds.
And what does that have to do with this incident, involving 3 completely different cars really. Vettel did exaclty what hte drivers had asked the FIA to police more strictly last race. And he got a penalty for it, exaclty what the drivers asked them to do from then on to stop it getting dangerous when more and more people start trying that “verstappen block”
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
31st October 2016, 12:50
@bascb Keep telling yourself that! Hamilton drove off the road into the grass… Nico just happened to be there and Lewis just couldn’t see him. Best pass of the year! The only way to avoid was to smash into Lewis…
As everyone knows, if you can’t race, you smash into things…
ruliemaulana (@ruliemaulana)
31st October 2016, 2:55
Low blow, Charlie… Someone smarter need to replace this fossil, ASAP.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
31st October 2016, 3:05
Excellent choice of cover image @keithcollantine! Vettel looks like he’s in the dock as the judge hands down the verdict!
Pinak Ghosh (@pinakghosh)
31st October 2016, 5:01
@phylyp The last Ferrari driver had similar expression.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
31st October 2016, 5:16
@pinakghosh – 😂
The Ferrari effect? Makes you passionate and emotional, and also wrecks you!
F1ed (@rinodina)
31st October 2016, 10:21
:-)
bongc888
31st October 2016, 3:12
Race hard. Defend hard. Remove “Verstappen Rule”. Plain and simple.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
31st October 2016, 3:15
I’m also surprised at the lack of investigation towards Hamilton cutting the corner on turn 2. In my opinion, while it was a lap 1 turn 1 incident, it was an unforced error (not due to wheel-to-wheel racing), so the usual leeway given to lap 1 turn 1 incidents shouldn’t have applied.
Rosberg and Verstappen coming together there was correctly investigated as it was two cars racing, and not a bunch of cars piling into turn 1 causing bumping.
Bforth (@bforth)
31st October 2016, 3:18
I can see the penalty as valid, but Verstappen should have received a steeper (20 second) penalty; his misconduct was the root cause for the Vettel-Ricciardo incident, and he tried backing Vettel into his teammate in a way that could have easily resulted in a three-man crash. Vettel’s outburst and desperate move to defend was consequence of Max cutting a corner to reclaim a lost position. Honestly, I would have done the same thing if I were at risk of being cheated out of two positions by one driver’s dirty antics.
Still, rules are rules. Since he did move on Ricciardo, and Ricciardo was in no way responsible for Max’s bad driving, the penalty isn’t unfair in its own right. Though it is unfair in that it vindicated dirty-bordering-on-dangerous driving from Max.
And could we stop comparing the lap one, turn one corner cutting moments to Max’s move? Never mind the precedent for running turn one on lap one with out penalty: Hamilton had the corner to himself and locked up, and the yellow flags were out before he had a realistic chance of giving the time back or before he could be instructed to do so. A five second penalty would not have cost him the win today regardless, so trying to use one as justification for the other is nonsense.
Pinak Ghosh (@pinakghosh)
31st October 2016, 4:16
I think the penalty on Vettel was harsh and the extent of penalty was more out of his frustrated outburst at the racing director than the actual on track action. While this is only an opinion, if there is some amount of truth therein, it is a sad reflection of the quality of stewardship in exercising the sporting regulation and dishing out penalty equally and unbiased.
x303 (@x303)
1st November 2016, 17:13
Just to clear that @bforth: Hamilton lifted after rejoining the track and let Rosberg catchup before the VSC kicked in.
Al
31st October 2016, 3:28
Now I understand why F1 wants to have more presence in US. They want to make F1 to be like WWE – a circus where the results will be determined at the beginning of the season. They didn’t want to penalize Hamilton because they want to keep the championship interesting until the last race and they delayed the decision for Versappen because that brought Ricciardo into the race for podium.
Never watched WWE so it looks like that will happen with F1.
Harshit vora
31st October 2016, 3:38
I’m not a fan of Sebastian as I was with mark Webber all the time…but yesterday he was surely a driver of the day for me…he made soft tyre work brilliantly…nice race…as far as penalty is concerned ya he moved under braking but wat I have seen all this year’s verstappen has never been penalized as he has done it at high speeds … stewards has been biased this year… verstappen has been gainer all the time and others have been on the other side …
Friederike (@rike)
31st October 2016, 4:19
This is just ridiculous for all the reasons mentioned before. .. Really really ridiculous
Neel Jani (@neelv27)
31st October 2016, 4:42
FIA has largely killed the art of overtaking by introducing DRS (which I am not against considering aero levels) and now they’ll kill whatever is left of the art. Swaying into the braking zone suddenly is dangerous but this was a slow move. It was a racing incident at best between an opportunistic driver against a very frustrated driver.
Max gets a penalty for cutting the track while Lewis goes scot-free. Either penalise or both or penalise none. The argument of Lewis’ action being at the start of the race holds no water to be very honest in this scenario. In my opinion neither Max nor Lewis should’ve been penalised.
It’s the inconsistencies that have become a joke! The sport doesn’t really throw a good light on itself when it changes it’s podium finishers thrice in a matter of hours. Thank God this wasn’t for the championship.
Pochyt (@tychop)
31st October 2016, 5:07
Good. Now hopefully a couple of other drivers will get caught the Verstappen rule also, so they can all agree to get rid of it again…
x303 (@x303)
1st November 2016, 17:15
For years the rule did not exist and no one used that move @tychop, nothing will change really.
Tristan
31st October 2016, 5:09
Wow, I expected Vettel to get a reprimand or a warning (to indicate that the move was incorrect) maybe even a grid drop for the next race, not a time penalty for a situation he should never have been in.
What a lack of intelligence from the stewards. Technically the correct result, but technicality shouldn’t always be followed.
Absolutely farcical. A change of drivers after the race – on the podium; to not even the right drivers!
Melvin (@)
31st October 2016, 5:36
Oh, the irony! Good decision by the stewards.
TimTheBoss (@hogee)
31st October 2016, 5:40
Lots of drama again in Formula Penalty.
JS (@js)
31st October 2016, 6:45
Hello,
The more childish the drivers, the more rules and F.I.A. interventions we’ll see.
We do need adults (and, if I may, this extends to the whole society and not only F1, I think finding adults (and neither kids nor teenagers) is a crucial problem today. And the more F.I.A. interventions, the more inconsistencies: this body still has to prove us it could be consistent and fair, never really seen that during a season.
Now, there’s a simple (maybe costy) thing to avoid a good part of this (and probably all of Sunday’s foolish and ridiculous drama): g.r.a.v.e.l.s.
I know that some tracks do host other races for which gravels are not possible (e.g. moto GP for instance), but:
1. that’s not the case for all tracks
2. put gravels for F1 and artificial grass for moto or whatever: it does not seem too huge an obstacle to me (maybe it is, I don’t know really).
Drivers need to loose time (and a lot) when they cut corners. How come an F1 driver can say: “yes I cut the chicane, but in the end after the corner there was the same gap between me and the guy behind” (who took the corner). Where is racing here? And again, more importantly, how can a driver say and think that? The situation is crazy.
Cheers
x303 (@x303)
1st November 2016, 17:19
As has been pointed out by @gt-racer before, it’s not just F1 vs Moto GP, but also touring cars, lower single seater categories (which are lighter than F1 and thus flip more easily with gravel) and more.
I think it would cost too much for the track owners to put gravel for the F1 week-end and then remove it for the other categories @js.
moag
31st October 2016, 6:46
You could tell it was gonna be a joke when they let Ham get away with that first turn miss. Besides making sure the championship stayed alive, what was the purpose of letting a driver cut the entire second turn of the track? I can’t believe every team but Merc didn’t file a protest against that. If Rosburg has an issue that allows Ham to win the championship, the neglect of penalizing that first turn miss will resonate.
Craig Wilde (@wildfire15)
31st October 2016, 7:00
With all the incidents penalized or not penalized, I’d be inclined to call this the silly grand prix of 2016.
Henrik
31st October 2016, 7:05
We have not heard or seen the last of this. remember, Ferrari have a special position in F1 even if their veto does not cover all aspects of this sport. Don’t be surprised if this goes before the FIA (or if there’s a threat to do so which gives the same end result) on the grounds that everything started with Verstappen gaining an unfair advantage, refused to give the place back even when told so by his team and instead backed Vettel into Ricciardo. Had Verstappen obeyed the rules, the Vettel – Ricciardo incident would not have happened. So do not be too surprised if the next news we hear is that Verstappen has been disqualified – which in turn would lead to protests by Manor because Sauber gets the point that move them into the prize money and Manor out.
Gawd what a mess and all because at heart, Vettel is correct even if how he says it is wrong. Charlie Whiting’s inept handling of F1 race issues is the root.
STG (@salmantg)
31st October 2016, 7:18
+10..stewards should also be punished for inconsistencies…who is going to that?
Hardik Panjwani (@scarlet-fever)
31st October 2016, 7:33
I thought the penalty applied to VET is unappealable so that is the end of this story?
Adam (@rocketpanda)
31st October 2016, 7:42
Wrong decision for me. I thought RIcciardo’s move was opportunistic at best and not much different to Massa lazily closing the door last week on Alonso, but he didn’t get a penalty so I’m confused on why Vettel did.
I still think you shouldn’t be able to bypass an entire section of track and not be punished, so regardless of circumstance Hamilton should have been penalised on lap one. Frankly if there was a wall there, or a gravel trap both he and Verstappen would be out on the spot so the point would be irrelevant.
Personally Vettel should be third, no way should he be lower than Verstappen. The stewarding and rules are so inconsistent, the same move can get you a penalty depending on the race or even the lap, and playing musical chairs hours after the race is just ridiculous.
Smidgen
31st October 2016, 7:48
I think it’s hilarious. VET deserves everything he gets IMO – throwing his toys out of the plan whenever things don’t go his way. I’m sick to the back teeth of listening to the man telling people to get out of the way… backmarkers or otherwise. He seems to think he should have special dispensation from the rules and doesn’t get that being a world champ doesn’t entitle you to anything. The higher you climb the harder you fall. This incident is a prime example of reaping what you sow. Suck it up Grandpa… and shut that potty mouth!
Thomas
31st October 2016, 7:59
I do not support Vettel at all normally, but this is nuts…. After 25 years of following F1 this is so crazy and arbitrary that it undermines the sporting merits of it all. No penalty for Hamilton for cutting the track at the start of the race and not ruining his tires from locking them enough to stay on track, but 10 secs for Vettel in what was limited contact just as much so initiated by Ricciardo. WHITING OUT!
Elizabeth
31st October 2016, 8:04
F1 is not a PG sport….it is supposed to be an adult sport….!
Elizabeth
31st October 2016, 8:06
Verstappen almost cost Rossberg his position too. It is bad…..he does not have the experience to drive with these World Champions…!!!!
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
31st October 2016, 8:12
It is funny, that while the move was fully within the parameters, fit for punishmeng..
It was exactly the type of racing I want to see, banging wheels, close action, seemed safe… Man it was awesome. But obviously It was made under breaking…
Rick (@wickedwicktheweird)
31st October 2016, 8:23
There is no question that VES left the track and gained an advantage. He made a mistake and by leaving the track he failed to lose a position.
In my opinion there are three ways to gain and advantage by leaving the track.
1. Leaving the track and gaining a position
2. Leaving the track and gaining laptime
3. Leaving the track and failing to lose a position
The first one will always get a driver punished if he doesn’t give the position back. However with the second and the third way drivers rarely get punished, as long as it doesn’t happen multiple times during a race. Hamilton did it yesterday, but he also did it in Monaco this year. Rosberg did it in Canada 2014 when Hamilton put him under pressure ( i believe he even did it twice then). I can understand that they gave VES a penalty but i really don’t like the inconsistancy of the stewards decisions.
About VET’s penalty, i believe that they had no choice, not penalising him would have killed off the ‘Verstappen rule’.
topo toto
31st October 2016, 8:33
Nobody says anything about Alonso being one of the only drivers this year that has had all four tires on the grass and have been able to go back to the track by saving the car and no crashing.
pSynrg (@psynrg)
31st October 2016, 9:40
You have now said something about that. It was indeed an outstanding save by Alonso! With Sainz receiving a penalty for causing it.
MrKii
31st October 2016, 9:27
Vettel did that move because of Verstappen. Had the stewards forced Verstappen to give track position to Vettel, he wouldn’t have been attacked by Ricciardo. So at the end, Verstappen penalty delay turned in favour of RB.
The good point is that now that a penalty for steering on the brake zone has been given, Verstappen will be getting three of them each race.
Also, the problem is not exiting track to gain time. The problem is how on earth can they allow a track with that feature. Just do like in Circuit de Catalunya or Monza, where skipping the first turn forces you to slow down a lot in order not to damage your car.
pSynrg (@psynrg)
31st October 2016, 9:38
@MrKii We ask for grass or gravel, rather than tarmac run-off. This is what we have in Mexico. Quite clearly it’s a beautifully maintained patch of turf, with Hamilton & Verstappen able to run through at almost full-speed!
I’m sure they’ll change it next year and force a driver to pass a particular cone, or incur a penalty (such as Canada, Russia etc.)
magon4 (@magon4)
31st October 2016, 9:44
Is it true that Dan gave the 3rd place trophy to Max in an improvised post-podium celebration?
DER SPIEGEL has reported it that way. Any other media outlets reporting on this?
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
31st October 2016, 10:04
I interpreted Ricciardo’s remarks after the race as thinking Max deserved to be on that podium, so wouldn’t surprise me.
F1ed (@rinodina)
31st October 2016, 10:15
It’s funny. Last race Max & VSC lost RIC a place, this race Max & VSC gained him 3d.
F1ed (@rinodina)
31st October 2016, 10:13
Poetic justice has been served.
Evil Homer (@)
31st October 2016, 10:18
Well this getting a bit juicy now isn’t it! We say that F1 drivers have become PR machines but they had a RDO today didn’t they!
We did get ripped off a ‘Shoey’ so I propose the following for Brazil: Before FP1 Seb has to present Dan with the trophy and do a ‘Shoey” from his boot, then, they take the wrestling ring they had in Mexico and Max & Seb duke it out in an old fashion grudge match (my money is on Max to win with a low blow while the ref, Charlie, is not watching) :)
On a bit more on a serious note Vettel had to pay a penalty for both the move but more so from swearing at Charlie. It doesn’t matter that FOM chose to air it but more so that he said it, its irrelevant if people think Charlie is doing a good job or not (and doesn’t the Stewarts make the decisions on penalties?) a code of conduct as a professional must be adhered too and you simply don’t say that to the race director- poor form from Seb and I think he may look back on that one and had his time again. Maybe Kimi has changed his medication on him just for a bit of fun :)
As this was the first imposed penalty under the Vestappen Rule we don’t know how much was racing penalty and how much a behaviour sanction. The FU comments should not impose a driving sanction but rather a fine. Maybe $20,000 that the FIA then donates to some anti-road rage program maybe LOL!
As for Lewis’s first corner he did gain an advantage as he may have come back on track 3th-5th if he did have to take T2 (think Rosberg in Canada this year on T1) so he may have lost track position with badly vibrating tires. Looking at history with being lenient on lap 1 probably fair to let it ride and with VSC as well, but I cant help FIA just to cover their back from backlash should have put it under investigation then ruled ‘No advantage was gained due to VSC’ just to show they looked into it.
Max’s was fair and he needed to give that back right away. But again I think RBR knew what they were doing and would have to take a penalty so why not back him into Dan and have a shot at a podium. Cheeky and pushing the boundaries, well yes, but RBR do they pretty well!
Either way I am stoked Dan will take P3 in the drivers championship this year and cant wait for the battle to continue- Seb & Max may get to Senna V Prost heights at this rate.
Also the “Calm down and Kimi on” comment must take COTD!!
Leo B
31st October 2016, 11:10
I have watched the video of the incident several times now and I can’t find where Vettel moved in the braking zone. There’s a frontal view and there you see Vettel move to the right and then take a straight line to the corner. This line is slightly diagonal with respect to the track limits, but still it’s straight as an arrow. The first movement of the Ferrari is when Ricciardo taps his rear left corner. Then Vettel turns in. All the time there’s ample room for Ricciardo to manoeuvre, even at the apex.
From Ricciardo’s onboard it does look slightly different, but still Vettels transition from going to the right to angling for the corner is done in one move. It looks like Ricciardo, who moved from the left edge of track to somewhere in the middle himself, is a bit surprised that Vettel is not following the widening right track edge and stays in the middle. At the time of the first contact Ricciardo still has 2 car widths available to his left.
Evil Homer (@)
31st October 2016, 12:24
Hey @Leo B
My first thought from Dan’s onboard was the same, and even the shot coming down the straight maybe. But when you see the helicopter overhead shot its move obvious with Seb’s move under braking and especially compared to Max just ahead who was in the proper racing line (yes, a bit slower than usual for obvious reasons). FIA will also look back on Seb’s normal racing line over previous laps to show a variance. It was there, but pre-Spa wouldn’t have been looked as quite probably.
Max’s move on Kimi at Spa was certainly far more dangerous and why they bought in the Vestappen Rule, but its under the same thing they are trying to eliminate.
I first thought Max should have given the place to Seb right away forgetting he has 3 laps to do so. So while I posted RBR racing were pushing it they were not, they played it smart and within the rules. Push Seb back and let Dan take track position, if Max takes a penalty there are still better off.
Its a Ross Brawn Special- play to your advantage as close to the boundaries as possible.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
31st October 2016, 13:02
I really believe that Max just needs to let his driving do the talk – we talk more about his antics than his actual driving. He’s using up all his carte blanches for nothing. He’s got to keep them and use them when it matters – same goes for Vettel. Unnecessary blowout that cost him points even though he drove well. I think he’ll pay 50 points for what he said over his career. Wait till they take a race win from him while he’s fighting for a championship…
One thing is obvious – the stewards are the jokes of the century. There’s no way you can have any respect for them watching F1. I have infinite patience and I try to give folks a chance for 5-10 years but eventually you have to just accept that it’s a joke.
How on earth can Sainz get a penalty today and Alonso avoids one last week? How on earth can Vettel get a penalty while trying to stay on track and Nico can practically kill Lewis in Spain and get away with it and gets a championship from the FIA for it?
Absurd stuff!
socksolid (@socksolid)
31st October 2016, 14:01
Agreed 100%
F1ed (@rinodina)
31st October 2016, 13:03
To Vettel: Seb, sorry mate but you’ll have to return your trophy.
From Vettel: Bless it! I don’t want give it back! This blessed tropy is rightfully mine!!!
To Vettel: Sure Seb, we know you’re angry and frustrated, and justly so, but the stew-
ards have told…
From Vettel: You know what!? Bless ’em!!! Bless the stewards!!! Go tell them to bless
off!!!
To Vettel: Calm down Seb! You have to calm down! We will try to convince Charlie
(Whiting) you didn’t squeeze Daniel on purpose! OK?
From Vettel: Bless!!! I think I’ve got a blessing puncture!!!
Jerejj
31st October 2016, 13:32
+1
socksolid (@socksolid)
31st October 2016, 13:59
I thin it is utterly hilarious vettel gets a penalty but alonso’s divebomb ramming of massa of the road was ok. I mean you can literally drive and crash other car out of your way to pass but going side by side through a corner gives you a penalty.
What a joke!
The rules are not just different in every race in every incident. Stewarding is almost the worst it has ever been in the sport. Even a dice would produce fairer penalties.
Kpt
31st October 2016, 16:24
Can some point this year when someone has been able to catch Verstapen and pass him whitout drama happening?
Robert (@)
31st October 2016, 18:06
I disagree with this penalty, it looked like close, hard racing to me. It is for things like this why people are getting fed up with F1, if drivers start to actually race each other they will get punished if they are not 100% squeaky clean, so they end up most of the time being conservative leading to boring racing.
Dani
31st October 2016, 23:24
I’m still gutted over this. The stewards were right to penalise Verstappen. And although a lot are saying that it’s allowed in regards to a car backing another into the car behind, I consider that dangerous. What is to stop Red Bull in future from following the same tactics, and crushing a car between them, just so they get points? I didn’t realise I was watching wrestling instead of racing!